1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from house stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Pane, Welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Sherry put The three 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: of us together had a little mystery, a lot of mayhem, 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: you got stuff you should and one ax, Yeah, how 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: many is this three? We've got Louzie Borden ye and 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: then this one. I couldn't think of it anymore. Well, 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: I looked. It's funny because I looked out, was like, 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: I wonder if we could do a spinoff show just 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: on X murders UM, and Wikipedia had thirty listed. I'm surprised. 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: That's if there's like ten mentioned in this this article alone. 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: M M, well, we'll see why there are so many 13 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: X murders. This this UM. This whole researching the Viliska 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: X murder kind of solved a question I've had that 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: I didn't realize I knew had how to pronounce Vliska. 16 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: We just settled that by calling the Valiska town hall. 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: That was a pretty great moment. Right before we recorded, 18 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: I was like, are you sure there's a Valissa? Josh 19 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: called the town hall and lied. Well, it was kind 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: of a bet that's just settled. We just never put 21 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: money on it. So if you are whoever answers the 22 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: phone at the Vliska Town Hall, um, first of all, 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: thank you. You got a call today, so congratulations. And 24 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: second of all, you just spoke to an internet celebrity. 25 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, man. I think Valisca is on the 26 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: map and it is a d percent because of this 27 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: this murder. Well, if you just type in Valisca, almost 28 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: all you see is stuff about the Sacks murder. Well, yeah, 29 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: the site of Valiska, Iowa dot com is entirely dedicated 30 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: to the Sacs murder. It's it's a it's a pretty 31 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: big deal. Yeah, no, it's just it doesn't mention it 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: at all. But all the copy is just in the 33 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: outline of the shape of an x. They just talk 34 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: about like their boys club and stuff that they're doing 35 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: their Fourth of July prade, But it's in the shape 36 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: of an X. The population and elevation is in a 37 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: drop of blood coming off of the axe. It's his population, 38 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: not as much as it was on June nine. That's 39 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: morbid nineteen twelve. Did you did you hear about this before? Well, 40 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: I think after hint k effect. We had some emails 41 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: from probably local Iowans Iowan's, Iowan's, Iowania Nights, uh saying, hey, 42 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: you guys should if you're into the not into X murders, 43 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: but if you're into reporting on grizzly crimes, you should 44 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: check out the one we had in nineteen twelve. Yeah, 45 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: they were right, man, this is so before we get 46 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: into it, I think it goes without saying, listeners that 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: this is a very horrific grizzly crime. They we're going 48 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: to talk about in some detail, right listen at your 49 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: own discretion. X murder is in the title, everybody. I 50 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: just want to make sure we cover ourselves there. This 51 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: is one of the most brutal crimes in American history, 52 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of people don't know about it. Man. 53 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: Well let's let's let's stop jabbering and get this criming. Okay, 54 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: all right? Where where was Where was this from? By 55 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: the way? Uh Well, one of the articles we researched 56 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: was from Mike dash the Smithsonian Magazine. They do great work, 57 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: great work. Um. There's another guy named and named Ed 58 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: Epperley who we have to give a shout at to, 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: who has like a whole site called asked Ed that's 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: dedicated to this murder. Guys research to for like fifty 61 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: five years or something like that, write one of the 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: two books. Probably Sure. He's widely known as the expert 63 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: on the Veliska X murder. He knows everything there is 64 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: to know, and he's got a really fascinating So if 65 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: you're even remotely into true cry him in this thing 66 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: floats your boat. Go check out eds site and you 67 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: will just spend days pouring over. Yeah. One thing I 68 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: realized in researching this was it was way easier to 69 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: get away with murder in nineteen twelve. Um. Yeah, there's 70 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of um agreement that had this been 71 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: done today, they would have caught the guy very quickly. 72 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, nineteen twelve it was like you wear gloves 73 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: and you just confounded. There are only means of detection. Basically, 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: it's not from an eyewitness pretty much. Yeah, so we 75 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: keep saying nineteen twelve specifically, Like you said, June nine, 76 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: twelve in a little town, Well, it was one of 77 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: those things where it crossed over into midnight. So je 78 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: depends on if you're still at party in Potato Potato, 79 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: Aliska Melissa right, but at five ohway East Second Street 80 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: in Valiska, Iowa, which is in the county of Montgomery 81 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: in the south east of the state. I believe not 82 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: as far from here as I thought. No. I just 83 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: looked on a map and I was like, wait, I 84 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: was there. I thought. I was like, basically in Canada, 85 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: where is it this more in the middle of the country. 86 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: I did not realize that, like, it doesn't look further 87 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: west than like Dallas. I I can believe that. But 88 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: it was the north that gets you, the northern, the 89 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: northern ward direction, that's what gets your share. So on 90 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: this night j and this little house, there were eight 91 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: people sleeping. You were a mom and a dad, Joe 92 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: and Sarah Moore, and then there four kids, um what 93 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: were their names, Charles I believe Herman, Catherine, Boyd and Paul. 94 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: And then downstairs there were two additional people sleeping in 95 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: the house, little Lena and Iina Stillinger and they were 96 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: just having to sleep over. Yeah, they were friends of Catherine, 97 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: the oldest daughter for the only daughter I guess, of 98 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: the moors Um and the whole group had been at 99 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: church their Presbyterians, and they had been at church Um 100 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: that day it was Sunday for a special children's day 101 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: Mass that Mrs Moore had helped put on and the 102 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: kids had all participated in. And at that mass, Catherine 103 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: had asked her two friends Lena and Ana the sisters, 104 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: to spend the night, And so they came back home 105 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: with the Moors from the children's day Mass, and by 106 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: I think ten or ten thirty, they were all at 107 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: home in bed and the lights were out and the 108 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,239 Speaker 1: house was settled and dark. Yeah. Man, the Stillinger girls. 109 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: I mean, this is all very sad. But anytime I 110 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: hear of a faithful turn like oh yeah, we just 111 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: spent the night there that night and things go bad, 112 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: it always I don't know, bothers me more. Yeah, for sure, 113 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: twists of fate are terrible, especially when they resulting terror deaths. 114 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: So uh, very late at night, like you said, after midnight, Um, 115 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: someone crept in to the back of the house which 116 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: was not locked. That's stuff for debate. Oh yeah, all right, 117 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: locked or unlocked. They got in without raising suspicion. Two 118 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: story house. And this is a small town, this is um. 119 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: There were I don't even think two thousand people living 120 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: there then, and I think even less now and there 121 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: we're back then. Yeah, one of those places. Um, so 122 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: this person and I think ball accounts, we can safely 123 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: say it was a man creeps in this house with 124 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: an ax from the property. Yeah, it was Joe Moore's 125 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: own ax. Yeah. And as we will see, apparently, Um, 126 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: they called these weapons of convenience because back in the day, 127 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: every single house in the US had an ax, like 128 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: in the front or backyard. That just explained it. That 129 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: was the question I didn't realize i'd had. Why were 130 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: there's so many axe murderers at a certain period of 131 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: time in American history? Is because everybody had an ax. Yeah, 132 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: and you would leave it just you know, like chopped 133 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: into the stump that you use as the chopping block 134 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. It'd be like a weapon of convenience. Yeah, 135 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: these days you would have to kill people with like 136 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: a mailbox, just some something that everyone has, so like 137 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: a silicon spatula or a high speed internet cable. There 138 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: you choke somebody with that. Yeah, Okay, all joking aside. 139 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: So this this dude creeps in there, He's got this axe. 140 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: He gets and this is very key here, he gets 141 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: the lamp, an oil lamp from the dresser inside the house. 142 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: He takes off the chimney the glass, you know, and 143 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: it takes it off, bends the wick and half so 144 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: the flame is smaller, lights the lamp and then turns 145 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: it down really low, and then commences creeping. Yeah, with 146 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: an axe in hand and this low light um oil 147 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: lamp and the other chimney lest lamp, which will see 148 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: is a big clue. Yeah, So he goes up the stairs, apparently, 149 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: so he passes the stillinger girls. First goes up the stairs. 150 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: He passes the children's bedroom, and then opposite I believe 151 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: the landing from the children's bedroom are Joe and Sarah's room, 152 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: or is Joe and Sarah's room, and they're sleeping, and 153 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: he sets the oil lamp down I believe at the 154 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: foot of the bed, and he raises the axe over 155 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: his head and using the flat the flat end flat 156 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: side of the axe, not the sharp blade side, but 157 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: the other side, he delivers a blow to Joe's head. Joe, 158 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: I believe was lying on his back, even though Smithsonian 159 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: article says something different. Yeah, raise it so high he 160 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: even gouged the ceiling correct, Yeah, brought it down hard 161 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: on Joe's head. Probably killed him instantly from that one blow. 162 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: Then apparently he didn't disturb Sarah at all because he 163 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: did the same thing to her. And both of them 164 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: were found in a position that they would have been sleeping, 165 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: and there wasn't like the beg clothes weren't ruffled, There 166 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: wasn't their arm was enough to defend themselves. They died 167 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: in their sleep, it appeared, right. Yes, So he kills 168 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: the parents, um, either immediately or they they died, probably 169 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: pretty quickly, leaves the room and goes next door. And 170 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: this is really just almost too awful to talk about. 171 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: But he kills all the children in their sleep, one 172 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: by one, but again without waking any of them. Yeah, 173 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: by the time he got to the Stillinger girls downstairs, um, 174 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: it seemed evidence points to the fact that they may 175 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: have awakened. Finally one of them, the older one Linna 176 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: I believe is the older one, and then he dispatches 177 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: with both of them in the same manner. Yeah, grizzly, awful, 178 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: awful murder. So that's enough, right, This guy just went 179 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: around and murdered eight people, six of them children under 180 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: the age of twelve or twelve are under um with 181 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: the blunt end of an ax. That's bad enough, but 182 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: then it just gets a million times worse. And this 183 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: is probably why this ax murder is is just part 184 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: of American history, whether we like it or not. So 185 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: what the guy does next is, um, well, he took 186 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: the axe and he flips it over, and he takes 187 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: them the sharp side, and he goes around and he 188 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: starts bashing everybody's head in one by one. Um. Apparently 189 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: Joe was later found to have been struck as many 190 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: as thirty times in the head with the ax. Um, 191 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: just one by one. He went around and completely caved 192 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: in the head and face of all of his victims 193 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: methodically throughout the house after they were dead. Which is 194 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: a bizarre, horrible thing to do. Yeah, so then it 195 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: gets a little bit strange. He Um. He goes around 196 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: to the rooms and all over the house really and 197 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: does different things in each one. He covers windows with 198 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: sheets and things. He covers mirrors. All the mirrors in 199 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: the house are covered. He covered the faces of I 200 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: believe all the victims, right, yeah, one way or another. Um, 201 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: I believe all of their faces were covered with either 202 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: sheets or pillow cases, or I think in the case 203 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: of the girls, he pulled their dresses up over their faces. Yeah, 204 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a second. Uh. Yeah, it's 205 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: very um, I think in the serial killer or psychopath mode, 206 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: though I've heard of stuff like that before. Though right like, um, 207 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: you get the idea that they don't the murderer doesn't 208 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: want the victim looking at him. Yeah, which may also 209 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: explain why you bashed their faces in here, know. Um. 210 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: So the guy apparently hang out for a little while. Um. 211 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: He does other weird things though. The bacon, he grabbed 212 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: a two pound slab of bacon, and I saw elsewhere 213 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: that there was another slab of bacon found in the house. 214 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: But there was at least one two pounds slab of 215 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: bacon that he wrapped in a dish towel and then 216 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: left on the floor of one of the bedrooms. There 217 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: was a bowl of bloody water that was later found 218 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: he washed himself off. He washed off the axe, um, 219 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: although he left it behind. Um. And he apparently hung 220 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: out for a little while in the house before leaving 221 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: sometime before five am. So the murders took place around 222 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: midnight and then come five am the house is dark 223 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: still it's five am, so that's not the weirdest thing. 224 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: Although we're talking about Iowa, so plenty of people were 225 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: up at five, including the neighbor, a woman named Mary Peckham, 226 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: and she noticed that, um, there wasn't anybody up at 227 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: the house, which was a little odd. It was a 228 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: Monday morning now, and um, by seven she thought it 229 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: was just downright eerie that there was no sign of 230 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: life at the house. She went over and let the 231 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: Moore's chickens out so that they could pick around and feed. Um. 232 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: She called Joe Moore's um store and said, hey, has 233 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: Joe showed up and found from the employee that he hadn't. 234 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: And finally one of those two gets in touch with 235 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: a guy named Ross Moore, Joe Moore's brother, and Ross 236 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: comes over and unlocks the door. The front door is locked, 237 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: and um, he goes inside and he comes almost immediately 238 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: rushing back out, calling for the local marshal to be called. Yeah, 239 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: basically he gets Hank Horton is the marshall's name. He 240 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: gets him on the scene, and this this is where 241 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: things just kind of go berserk. It's it's such a 242 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: small town, such a grizzly crime. Um, any chances of 243 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: preserving a crime scene. And this is nineteen twelve. I 244 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: don't even know how much a small town like this 245 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: knows about preserving a crime scene at the time. Um, 246 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: but any hopes were lost within those first few hours 247 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: after the discovery, because by all accounts, there were a 248 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: hundred or more people that went through that house, from 249 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: doctors to corners to investigators who just townspeople, right that 250 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: were allowed to just go in there and check things out. Yeah. 251 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: So the the first group that comes with the the uh, 252 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: the Marshal Hank Horton, right, was to two doctors and 253 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: a minister, Jay Clark Cooper, right, great doctor name j 254 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: Clark Cooper and Edgar Huff and Wesley Ewing who was 255 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: the minister of the church. They were the first contingent 256 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: to make it into the house after Rossmore came running out. Yeah. 257 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: So they go in and uh they know enough to 258 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: not disturb things too much. Another guy gets brought in, 259 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: um l A Linquist. He's the coroner. Uh. He tries 260 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: to take some notes about the crime scene. But the 261 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: person who um got the most information was another doctor. 262 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: His name was um Yeah F. S. Williams was the 263 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: one who examined the body and at a later in quest. 264 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: Um he had the most details to offer about the bodies, 265 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: of positions, all that stuff, So when those guys walked in, 266 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: they were at least well versed enough to know not 267 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: disturbed things as much as possible, or at least more 268 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: than the towns people knew. And f S. Williams allegedly 269 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: came out of the house pretty shaken and said, don't 270 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: go in there, boys, well you'll regretted to your last day. 271 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: And the townspeople said, nuts to you. We're going inside. 272 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: We want to see some dead bodies. And it probably 273 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: till their last day, yeah, because they not only messed 274 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: with the crimes and they poked around there was supposedly 275 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: the town drunk took fragments of Joe Moore's skull as 276 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: mementos like the The crime scene was toast, like you said, 277 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: if if it could have ever been preserved, it was toast. 278 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: And even the local druggist showed up with his camera 279 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: to help preserve the crime scene because he heard that 280 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: the townspeople were were tramping all over it. Um and 281 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: Ross Moore, not understanding what he was doing through the 282 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: guy out thought he was just being a ghoul. Trying 283 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: to get pictures. So the crime scene is utterly and 284 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: completely lost. Yeah, and uh, one of the things about Valesca, 285 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: almost said Vassila, is that it was a train town. 286 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: There were about thirty trains every day that went through there. 287 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: And so by this time, unless this person was local 288 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: and maybe hiding out locally, by all accounts, the murderer 289 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: had probably hopped the train was out of there at 290 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: that time, but they didn't They didn't realize this until 291 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: they had already released some bloodhounds. They searched the countryside. Um, 292 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: there was like a pretty pretty big search to find 293 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: whoever did this, and they didn't find any. And so 294 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: the town was just terrified. Town of two thousand people, 295 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: eight including six children, had just been murdered with an 296 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: ax in your town. And now the sun is starting 297 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: to go down and nobody's been caught. All right, So 298 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: let's take a break and we'll come back and talk 299 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: about suspect number one right after this. Okay, So suspect 300 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: number one, UM might be a little surprising when you 301 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: first hear that he was a state senator, very um 302 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: well well well respected by some as a local businessman, 303 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: and um a very prominent Methodist. It seems the town 304 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: was pretty sharply divided between Methodist and Presbyterian. You know 305 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: those days, and that stuff mattered to those people. Um, 306 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: and his name was Frank Jones, and uh, Methodists immediately said, no, uh, 307 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: he's he's got to be innocent. This is a fine 308 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: upstanding member of our church. Presbyterians are like, now, it's 309 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: got to be him. Uh. And at first I was like, well, 310 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: why would it be the state centator? None of this 311 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: makes sense. There were a couple of big things that 312 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: made people believe that he could be the guy. Joe 313 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: Moore worked for him for seven years and was one 314 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: of his best salesman on his farm equipment team, and 315 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: apparently he left in nineteen o seven uh and was 316 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: not too happy with the work hours, which were sixteen 317 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: hour days, six days a week. Who would be it's 318 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: like us um, and then set up a rival business 319 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: and even took one of the clients, the John Deer Company. 320 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: Yeah that was a big one. I'm sure so big 321 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: that UM. When Sarah Peckham called, Uh, Joe Moore's UM 322 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: employee to tell him the news, Joe Moore's employee called 323 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: the John Deer people in Omaha to let them know 324 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: they were like the third people called after the bodies 325 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: were discovered. So he takes John Deer with him. Um. 326 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: So this set up an obvious rivalry and uh, worse 327 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: than that apparently, um. And I don't know if this 328 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: is super confirmed, but at least the rumor was that 329 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: Joe Moore had slept with Jones's daughter in law. From 330 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: what I understand, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that's 331 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: been that's understood is true. That's true. So sleuch with 332 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: his daughter in law who apparently kind of had several 333 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: affairs in town and was not very discreet. Yeah, apparently, 334 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: according to Mike Dash at Smithsony and she used to 335 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: set up her um, her meet and greets over the phone. 336 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: It's called ason. Oh that's right, um over the phone. 337 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: And this was at a time when there was a 338 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: switchboard operator running the phones in the town, sat there 339 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: and listen. Yeah, and this lady obviously didn't care. So um. 340 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: Apparently it was pretty well known that that Joe Moore 341 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: had had an affair with F F. Jones daughter in 342 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: law was huge. You put those two things together and friends, 343 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: the fact that apparently they used to cross to the 344 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: other side of the street to keep from from from 345 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: encountering one another. Um that that's that's a big deal 346 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: in that town. You small town, right, So suspicion fell 347 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: on to f apparently from what I understand, within a 348 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: couple hours of the bodies being discovered. Yeah, And and 349 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: suspicion not that he may have done it, that Jones 350 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: was actually the killer. But maybe Jones because he was 351 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: fifty seven years old and probably had some pretty good money. Clearly, 352 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was wealthy. He was building a bank, 353 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: overseeing his new bank being built when he got the 354 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: news of the bodies. When you're building the bank, you're 355 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: you're rolling in. Yeah. So everyone thought that he probably 356 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: hired somebody out to kill him. Uh. And there was 357 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: a very Burns detective agency. Um that was a detective 358 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: named James Wilkerson who said, you know what, I think, 359 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: you're right. I think he hired someone. I think that 360 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: man's name was William Mansfield, William Blackie Mansfield. It was already, 361 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: Um no, he wasn't already. He would later be I believe, 362 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: convicted of an axe murder himself. Yeah, which is probably 363 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: one of the chief reasons he was suspect. Well, no, 364 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: that that came a couple of years after. I believe 365 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: that was fourteen or fifteen that he murdered his wife, 366 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: her parents, and their child, their child, his childet with 367 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: an ax right to see. I was a bad dude. 368 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: But there was one problem with James Wilkerson's theory. Blackie 369 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: Mansfield had um an air tight alibi. He was in Illinois, 370 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: hundreds of miles away when the crimes occurred. Not only 371 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: did the foreman vouch for him, but the payroll chords 372 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: showed very clearly that he had not been in Viliska 373 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: that day, um, and couldn't have done it. Yeah, so 374 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: he was exonerated, but um, a lot of townspeople still 375 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: thought that that. You know how it was back then 376 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: and still is today to a certain degree, sure, especially 377 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: in a small town. Yeah, people were convinced that he 378 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: was a guy, and a lot of people probably went 379 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: to their graves thinking that. So even though Chuck that 380 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: Mansfield was exonerated, and and like you said, a lot 381 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: of people thought that um Jones F Jones apparently went 382 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: by f um did have something to do with it. 383 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: That still in your girls, father and Ross Moore, Joe 384 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: Moore's brother both thought F. Jones was behind this, um 385 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: and and Wilkinson made it like his personal mission to 386 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: take Jones down and apparently ruined his his political career, 387 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: cost him re election to the state Senate. I would 388 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: think that probably happened anyway, just from suspicion. But maybe. 389 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: But I think like there's something between townspeople suspecting you 390 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: and a detective like bringing evidence against you and getting 391 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: a grand jury to indict you. It was like the 392 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: good old days when you could be suspected of an 393 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: x murder and still win a Senate seat, right exactly, 394 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: Um the uh the But Jones he didn't win re 395 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: election and uh yeah, apparently to their dying day, some 396 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: people assumed that it was him behind it. Another candidate, 397 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: candidate suspect candidates not the right word, Uh Lynn George 398 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Kelly, Uh, the man with four names. He went 399 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: by George Kelly though. He was an Englishman, um, which 400 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: is probably a little weird at the time, be living there, 401 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: no one had ever seen an Englishman in Iowa. Maybe Uh. 402 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: He was a preacher though, and it says uh in 403 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: this Smithsonian article a known sexual deviant. Um. He definitely 404 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: had some mental health problems. But um, there are some 405 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: things in his case where it's sort of we're suspicious, 406 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: and others that made him not a great suspect, one 407 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: of which he was a little guy. He was five 408 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: to one hundred nineteen pounds, so maybe not the best 409 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: um suspect for swinging and ax like that. Yeah, although 410 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: you know he could have been strong as an ox. 411 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: You never know. Sure, thumbs of little guys, you know, Yeah, 412 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: but they're usually good with like jiu jitsu sleeper holds 413 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: rather than axe swinging. You know, they just scramble up 414 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: on top of them before you know what. Their legs 415 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: are around your neck and you're losing contoe, their thumbs 416 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: are in your eyeballs, that kind of thing. Uh, yeah, 417 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: so fair enough. But he was left handed, and the 418 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: corner Linquist did say that, you know, from their analysis 419 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: his rudimentry is that might be in nineteen twelve, that 420 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: could probably at least determine that it was a left 421 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: handed assailant from the blood spatter, I believe on the 422 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: walls it's good good for them for being that advanced. 423 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: So there were some other things that um that implicated 424 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: George Kelly one. He was in Valiska. He was a 425 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: traveling preacher. He and his wife toured around Um and 426 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: they were in Valiska than the day of the murder Um. 427 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: They were actually at the children's service that the that 428 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: the moors and the still injured girls were at Um. Again, 429 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: this guy was a sex maniac, is what he was 430 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: known as. Yeah, I kind of wonder about that, and 431 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: I guess if there were. He placed an ad and 432 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: this is in the nineteen tens. He placed an ad 433 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: in the Omaha World Harald looking for a a stenographer 434 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: who would be willing to pose as a model. And 435 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: when one, one woman named Justumine Hodgson, replied to his ad, 436 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: he sent her a letter. Apparently he's quite lude, so 437 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: much so that the court that that heard the case 438 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: against him um said that it was so obscene, lewd, lascivious, 439 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: and filthy as to be offensive to this honorable court 440 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: and improper to be spread upon the record thereof. I 441 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: really want to know what was in that. Last One 442 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: of the things was that the lady would be required 443 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: to type in the nude. This is the nineteenth ten. No, 444 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. I wonder how it would be 445 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: judged by today's standard, although I mean by today's standard. 446 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: If you sent a potential job candidate a letter that 447 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: said going to require you to be typing in the nude, yeah, 448 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: you would get in some trouble for that. Sure, I 449 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: just don't know that you would say it was obscene 450 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: luden Lecity, I'm with you. They'd say that's kin, But 451 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: I think the it's okay. George Kelly was a kinky 452 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: traveling preacher who had his wife in toil and he 453 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: was in Viliska at the time of the murders, and 454 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: he left that next morning on a train, right, But 455 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: there was supposedly a witness that said that he had 456 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: a very incriminating um statement when he got off of 457 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: that train that very morning. Yeah, he apparently referenced the murders, 458 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: but he had left town before they found out about 459 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: the murders. But then later on those people recanted those statements. Correct. 460 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: So when when Frank Jones F F. Jones had a 461 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: grand jury brought to hear evidence against him, he was exonerated. Um. 462 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: Same thing. Not with George Kelly. Actually, I should say 463 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: he was actually the only person to ever go to 464 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: trial for these murders, and he was tried twice. The 465 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: first time the jury found eleven to one in his favor. 466 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: The second jury acquitted him entirely. Um, the evidence against 467 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: him was just too flimsy, and uh, it probably wasn't him. Yeah, 468 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the the the idea was there, like he 469 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: was at that church service, he's a pervert. He saw 470 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: these kids in the service, he went back and peeked 471 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: into their house and camped out in their barn. And 472 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: the evidence there was there was some hay bales in 473 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: the barn that had depressions, as if someone had been 474 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: laying on them, and if you'd laid down and one 475 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: of them that was a people right there in the 476 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: barn where you could see the house. This is all 477 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: pretty flimsy. There was also, though, I think one of 478 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: the reasons why the case was brought against him. He 479 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: was specifically tried for the murder of Lena Stillinger, and 480 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: that's Um. That's noteworthy because although they don't say in 481 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: the official court record directly that she may have been 482 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted or that some sort of sex crime had 483 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: been committed against her, Um, supposedly she had been found 484 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: with her nightclothes hiked up over her waist, like above 485 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: her waist, her undergarments have been taken off and stuffed 486 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: under the bed, and then her her legs had been 487 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: arranged so that her genitalia was prominent. Right. Um, that 488 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: was done after she had been murdered. And I think 489 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why they suspected George Kelly. 490 00:29:54,680 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: Um because to add a sexual dimension to this brutal murder. 491 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: Or they said, well, this guy's just just enough of 492 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: a sex maniac for that to be possible. Yeah, Oh, 493 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: I forgot about this fact though. He actually returned a 494 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: week later and post this the Scotland Yard detective so 495 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: he could get a tour of the house. That is 496 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: so George Kelly. Well, it's definitely one of those things 497 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: that makes you go, wait a minute, uh, return to 498 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. You lied to get in 499 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: there and look at the house, but apparently everyone wanted 500 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: to go look at the house. So it's plus what's posing? 501 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: You know, We've seen so many like cartoony movies that 502 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: like somebody gets like the deer Stalker hat and a 503 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: pipe and says they're from Scotland Yard. Posing could be 504 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: like somebody saying like, oh, you must be from Scotland. 505 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: Yard like, am I grunting in the affirmative? Yeah, that's true. 506 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: I guess that technically constitutes posing in the real world. 507 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: Apparently signed a confession. Um, oh yeah, that was a 508 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: big one too. Yeah, but I mean the confession literally said, 509 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: I killed the children upstairs first and the children downstairs last. 510 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: I knew God wanted me to do it this way. 511 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: Lay utterly came to mind, and I picked up the axe, 512 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: went into the house and killed them. Um. But you 513 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: know he took it back later. I was like, you know, 514 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: all that very specific stuff I said about killing his family, 515 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: I didn't really do it. So he was exonerated. Um. So, 516 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: so far, the little town of Aliska has looked around 517 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: and said, we couldn't find any tramps. So who's the 518 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: person that hated Joe more the most ff Jones? While 519 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't him, Who's the weirdest pervert we can find? 520 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: Who was in town of the time, George Kelly? It 521 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: wasn't him, So they didn't know a lot of people 522 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: went to their graves dying not knowing what happened. And 523 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: we still don't know what happened. But with the hindsight 524 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: of UM, I guess, modern forensic techniques, modern profiling, and 525 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: the work of dedicated historians like Ed Epperley, we have 526 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: something of a clearer picture emerging, and that picture seems 527 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: to be centering on the serial killer. We'll talk about 528 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: that theory more right after this. All right, so we've 529 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: ruled out these local suspects local ish I guess in 530 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: Kelly's case. UM. And now the modern take on this 531 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: is that this was a serial killer because, uh, in 532 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven and nineteen twelve, there were a lot of 533 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: axe murders uh in the Midwest, at least ten UM 534 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: everywhere from Colorado Springs to Ellsworth, Kansas, UM, and many 535 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: of them had uh similar traits. Yeah, like some very 536 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: startlingly similar traits, right, but not all of them. And 537 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: some of them are like and we'll go through these, 538 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: but some were like, well, in five of them, these 539 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: same things happened, and two of them these same things happen. 540 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: So it makes me wonder if it wasn't if they're 541 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: kind of grouping too many of these together. This does 542 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: Ed Epperly actually whittles it down to five, including Vliska. 543 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: I thought five so there's three that happened in nineteen eleven. 544 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: There was one that happened in Colorado Springs, Colorado that 545 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: supposedly kicked the whole thing off, followed by Momoth in Illinois, 546 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: I forgot the s is silent, right yeah, and then Ellsworth, Kansas. 547 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: Then there was one in Paola, Kansas, and then the 548 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: last one in Valiska. And those five crimes have some 549 00:33:54,880 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: similarities that make them really really suspicious. That the idea 550 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: of just like five different people or even a couple 551 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: of different people um separately committing these crimes, and as 552 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: ed Epper's Lee puts it, kind of dismissively the idea 553 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: that these were local vendettas or you know, um that 554 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: that people were like argument farming or something. Yeah, that's 555 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: not what these these crimes reflect at all. They reflect 556 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: the work of a like just a straight up nut 557 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: job psychopath who um are few and far between. So 558 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: that the fact that these things occurred between October of 559 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven in June of nineteen twelve um suggests strongly 560 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: that that there was one person doing them. Yeah. Well 561 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: that was the final one in Columbia, Missouri in December 562 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve. Um, and one of the theories is that 563 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: a man named Henry Lee Moore uh killed Georgia Moore 564 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: in Columbia, Missouri, who was his mother Mary Wilson. Um, 565 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: so is that the guy. It would be weird to 566 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 1: commit a series of murders and then finish up with 567 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: your own family, right, Usually it's the other way around. Yeah, right, So, like, 568 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: if you're gonna go off on a killing spree, usually 569 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: start you practice on your family first, you get a 570 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,959 Speaker 1: feel for it. Right. Um, this guy, Henry Lee Moore, 571 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: aside from having three names, is not a good suspect 572 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: for the serial killer, right. Um. He apparently wanted the 573 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: deeds to his family house. And um, like you said that, 574 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: it's very rare for a serial killer to go back, 575 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, to deal with the three names. They don't 576 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: all have three names, no, I know, but so many 577 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: of them do. It's well, no, the news reports it 578 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: that way to distinguish them every other Henry Moore in 579 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: the world. So like everyone's always like serial killers have 580 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: three names. Now they're just reported that way. That's awesome. Yeah, 581 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: I love him when things are just explained. Yeah, I 582 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: wrapped up in a nice little bow. Thanks for that. 583 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: Like Lee Harvey Oswald, he I think went by Lee Oswald. 584 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: I think you're right. Yeah. So if anyone ever write 585 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: a story about Charles Wayne Bryant, we're in trouble. Um. 586 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm in trouble. I would kill you. Thanks man. 587 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: I wouldn't kill you either. Hey, you want to shake 588 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: on it? Jerry witnessed. Um, So the Henry Lee Moore thing, 589 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: he's almost like a red herring. Like a lot of 590 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: people say, well, he was the one, he was a 591 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: serial killer behind it, because the serial the serial murders 592 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: started um right after he got out of prison in Kansas, 593 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: and then they ended right after he got caught in Columbia, 594 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: Missouri with his family. Yeah, I mean kind of makes sense, 595 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: it does, but that's where the whole thing really begins 596 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: in it. And so a lot of people say, well, 597 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't hand really more so, it wasn't a serial killing. 598 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: Well plus uh sorry, but his his killing his own 599 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: family was about obtaining the deeds to his family house. Yeah, 600 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: that's what I was saying. So that was greed motivated, 601 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: not not a serious psychopathic, sex based serial killer spree. Right, 602 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: This guy was just a jerk Um, so, since Henry 603 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: Lee Moore is associated with the serial murder theory, once 604 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: somebody then finds out that it wasn't Henry ly more, 605 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: they stopped thinking it was a serial murderer. And Epperly says, 606 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: not so fast. Wait, wait, wait, just because Henry Lee 607 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: Moore's out of the equation doesn't mean there's not a 608 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: serial killer involved. He's like, consider the similarities between these 609 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: five cases, and they're they're they're pretty thick. Right. In 610 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: a couple of the cases, Um, there were oil lamps 611 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: found where chimney. The chimneys were removed and set aside, 612 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: and the wicks were bent in half to keep the 613 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: light low. That's a big one. Axes were used in 614 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: four of the five, but he says that's just probably 615 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: a matter of convenience. A pipe, I think was used 616 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: in the Mamouth, Illinois case, which is again an implement 617 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: of convenience to right, don't have an axe, handy, go 618 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: for a lead pipe. Yeah, he probably didn't bring that 619 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 1: with you. Um, there were tell them about the tell 620 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: them about the mirrors, Chuck, Well, I mean it's several 621 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: of these places the mirrors were covered up. I mean, 622 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: that's a big one mirrors and windows, and in one 623 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: of the places the telephone was covered. And the thought 624 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: there is is that, uh, like you said earlier, like 625 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: they don't want the victims to be watching them even 626 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: after death, or to be seen in the mirrors and 627 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: windows being covered. But the phone appearently it was one 628 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: of those old box phones on the wall that you 629 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: that you crank, and it has the two it sort 630 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: of looks like a face when you look at it. 631 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: It has like looks like two eyes and a nose. 632 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: And so the thought was that that even looks like 633 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: a face to the Drange serial killer, so they'll cover 634 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: that up as well, because nothing else makes much sense. 635 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: You know, you're not gonna in nineteen twelve, you're not 636 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: getting phone calls after midnight. You probably probably don't get 637 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: more than a couple of phone calls a week in 638 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve. Most people I have phones, Yeah, And throwing 639 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: a sheet over it wouldn't like disable it anyway. No. Um. 640 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: There was another female victim, a young female victim in 641 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: Mammouth who was found basically the same way that Um. 642 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: Lena Still Injury was found Um with her her nightgown 643 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: thrown up over waist and her undergarments removed. UM And 644 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: apparently there was a similarity in I believe Mammoth and 645 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: Veliska where and one other town to where the killer 646 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: was went on to try to kill again. Yeah, this 647 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 1: was the most interesting to me. Either successfully did kill again. 648 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: There was one where he went to an adjacent house 649 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: whose backyard connected the first murderhouse and then went in 650 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: and killed another family right afterwards. That was Colorado Spring. 651 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: And then in Vliska there the telephone operator who was 652 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: like sleeping in the telephone switchboard headquarters because no calls 653 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: were coming through. She reported the UM the door knob 654 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: being tried about two hours after the more house UM 655 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: members were murdered. Yeah, like heard footsteps come up to 656 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: the door, try to open it, and then heard the 657 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: footsteps leave. That's a little shaky, But this, the last 658 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: one was the one that kind of sent the chill 659 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 1: up my spine. It was the one in Kansas specifically, 660 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: you said, Paola, I bet you there are people they're 661 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: laughing because it's probably pronounced Paula or something probably, but 662 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: who knows p a l a Kansas, there was a 663 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: second family UM Mrs uh Longmire, the Longmire family. Um, 664 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: they were awakened. She and her daughter at about midnight 665 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: to the sound of broken glass, went downstairs and saw 666 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 1: a dude in their dining room who had just broken 667 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: uh oil lamp chimney and then got the heck out 668 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 1: of there through a window. So they actually saw a guy. 669 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 1: So think about that, Chuck, think about that they saw 670 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: they woke up and I saw the man who was 671 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: about to probably bludgeon them all to death with an axe. Um, 672 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: this is probably. And these were all trained towns, so 673 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: they were all linked by train depots. So by all accounts, 674 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: there was a train going serial killer uh for a 675 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: couple of years in the Midwest, killing people hopping trains, 676 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: never ever caught in the nuts. It is nuts, and 677 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: that the Valiska axe murders were probably one of his 678 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,919 Speaker 1: crazy But we'll never know, you know. When you say 679 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: stuff like that, or when you see stuff like that 680 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: in print to like will never know who it was, 681 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: it makes you wonder, like what kind of technology are 682 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: we going to have in the future, Like will we 683 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: never know? Or are we gonna come up with something 684 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: one day where we're like, oh, it was this guy, 685 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: Like now we know, you know, um, who who knows 686 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: the future knows? That's who knows. We should do one 687 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: on ed Geen. That's like kind of one of the 688 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: big big ones we haven't covered. I got a couple 689 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: more too. I don't want to I don't want to 690 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: even tease him yet. Okay, okay, true crime. Maybe we'll 691 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: do one and uh like this October. We used to 692 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: do multiple kind of creepy episodes. I think we did 693 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: last time too. Looks October. You all right, we'll look 694 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 1: forward to another ghoulish serial killer type thing. Okay, yeah, 695 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: we did hinder Kfec I think. Okay. Uh. If you 696 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: want to know more about the Valista X murders, well 697 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: again strongly recommend you go look up Ed Epperley. You 698 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,879 Speaker 1: can read the Smithsonian article, um, the X Murderer Who 699 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: Got Away, which was great. Uh, and there were plenty 700 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: of other articles that we relied on that we love. 701 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: Thank you for those. UM. In the meantime, you can 702 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: also hang out with us on how stuff works dot 703 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: com and our famous search bars. It's as a search bar. 704 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: Got it in there. It's sort for the listener mail. Hey, guys, 705 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: love the show, and now I have even more reason 706 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,840 Speaker 1: to promote your podcast. Everyone. I know. I work in 707 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: a small family business with my cousin. In this previous January, 708 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 1: started experiencing severe gastro intestinal issues. Yeah, I remember this one. Uh, 709 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,320 Speaker 1: it was like from yesterday. I won't go into detail, 710 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: but for months afterward, he saw specialists after specialists hoping 711 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: to find out the route, tested for Crohn's ulcers, ibs, 712 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: everything under the sun, none of which had a positive 713 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 1: result or diagnosis. Couldn't focus on anything, no energy, took 714 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: a ton of time away from work. He felt totally 715 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: lost and even sought the help of a psychologist because 716 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: of his diminished work ethic deteriorating quality of life. Do 717 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: you see where this is going? People? I think listeners 718 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: might know. And he was souther one day last month. Uh, 719 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: he was Southern. Actually. He came in after a doctor's 720 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: appointment and said he developed an iron deficient anemia to 721 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: add to his list of issues. At first, it sounded 722 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,760 Speaker 1: disconnected until and I kid you, this isn't all caps. 723 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: I kid you not, Josh and Chuck. I was listening 724 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: to your Hookworm episode that day. Man. When he got 725 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: to the part about the aggressive iron deficient anemia, I 726 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: lost my mind. I looked up hookworm infection symptoms immediately 727 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 1: brought it to my cousin and he had every last symptom. 728 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: His doctor prescribed a medication and he is currently being 729 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: de wormed. From the first day he started his treatment, 730 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 1: he had a noticeable increase in both mood and energy. 731 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: I don't know how these symptoms could have slipped by 732 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: a half dozen GPS and specialists, but I truly can't 733 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: thank you both enough of your podcast and his wide 734 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: range of topics that is James and St. Pete, Florida. 735 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: That is so awesome. Man, dude had hookworm? Can you 736 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: believe it? And man, thank you James, and good luck 737 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: to you cousin. Way to go for being so smart 738 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: to connect the dots too. I think your cousin knows 739 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: you pizza or a beer or whatever you may be both. Yeah, 740 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: trip to Chuck E cheese drunk Uh. If you want 741 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us to tell us an 742 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: amazing story like James did, you can tweet to us. 743 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,400 Speaker 1: I'm at Joshum Clark and s Y s K podcast, 744 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,760 Speaker 1: Chuck's at Charles W. Chuck Bryant and stuff you should 745 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,720 Speaker 1: know on Facebook and you can send us all an email, 746 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: including Jerry at Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, 747 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 1: and has always joined us at at Home on the web, 748 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this 749 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff Works 750 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: dot com.