WEBVTT - Remembering Tammy Zywicki 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:07.480 Paper Ghosts is a production of iHeartRadio. In the very 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:11.480 first episode of Paper Ghosts, I talked about the importance 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.000 of hearing from loved ones and a missing person or 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:19.599 murder case. We rely on them to introduce us to 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.279 and humanize a victim, share details about a life that 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.960 was lost, but more significant to me than anything else, 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:32.680 a life that was lived as a victim's advocate. Talking 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.080 to families and friends is the most moving aspect of 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.760 any story I cover, and always my starting point into 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:47.240 a case. In high school, Ye to Tammy Ziwiki's loved 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.440 ones painted a beautiful picture of who she was, allowing 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.960 me a glimpse into who she might have become. Because 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.960 of time constraints, many of these stories didn't make it 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.480 into the third season of Paper Ghosts, but I thought 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.480 it would be a disservice if they went unheard, so 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.039 I'm sharing them here to help us better understand the 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:12.480 amazing young woman behind the headlines. That picture up there, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.200 that was taken at the beach we were or that 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:20.600 was our summer vacation. That's the whole family. How old 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:26.919 is she there? Oh? I guess she was about baby 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:34.720 sixteen or fifteen. Sixting she liked her long hair. Tammy 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.800 Joseph Wicki was born on March thirteenth, nineteen seventy one, 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:43.080 in pleasant Hill, Pennsylvania. Her mom, Joanne, describes her as 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:47.440 a good natured, independent person who was rarely seen without 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.520 her camera or her cat. Tell me about that picture there, 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:58.000 that's her cat. She'd ever lived without a cat. She's 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.800 not one in their dorm room. She snuck a cat 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:07.640 into it, yes, really yes, And did she ever get caught? Nope? 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.639 And the one she's stuck in there, she managed to 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.520 keep it in there because her best friend was the 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.400 dorm monitor or whatever it was, and she wouldn't down. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.000 She was just a very young She was an easy 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:28.200 corn person. Everyone I spoke with described Tammy as audacious 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.760 while also being slightly rebellious, not to mention a lot 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.840 of fun. She was the only daughter in a family 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:40.079 of six something. Her brother Todd thinks truly shaped who 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.919 she was. Tammy was one of these sweet but also 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.520 tough kind of girls. Right. The toughness, I think it's 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.520 partly a personality, partly dealing with three brothers. But she 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:55.519 was just a truly kind person who had really good friends. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.120 She was involved in music for a while. She did 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.480 color guard in the band, played a lot of sports, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.760 but just a very fun, adventurous person who was open 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:10.040 to new experiences, made friends easily, was a natural leader. 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.400 She actually, I think found her high school soccer team 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.040 because she wanted to play soccer and they didn't have one, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.600 so she founded it. Became to co captain. When she 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.760 was little, she used to play on boys teams, you know, 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:26.959 until basically she got to high school and they creative 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.760 girls team. God bless the woman who coached the team 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.480 knew almost nothing about it. She had been the cheerleading coach. 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.280 And I look back and I think we'll thank goodness 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.920 she had the energy to do this. Amanda Potts played 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.160 soccer with Tammy at east Side High School in Taylor, 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:51.080 South Carolina, a suburb of Greenville. The women's sports programs 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.760 were still new when they attended, but Tammy, who played 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.520 for years on wreck teams, was a standout. She was 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:04.320 a fierce midfielder. She had endless energy. I learned what 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.440 midfield meant by watching Tammy play, because she could really 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.600 make the plays happen. Amanda described Tammy as the opposite 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.040 of a Southern bell, which she added got you noticed. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.640 In South Carolina in the mid eighties, we had to 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:24.080 wear these short shorts. Oh my god. The team uniforms 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.919 were yellow jerseys with like blue pinstripes and these blue 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:34.279 shorts that barely covered anything. And the poor cheerleading coach 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.239 now soccer coach, used to yell, manage your shorts, ladies, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.680 and Tammy thought that was hilarious. And I can remember 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:47.679 her teasing us, manage your shorts. Manage your shorts. Soccer 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.240 was an important part of Tammy's life in high school. 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.359 She also loved photography and became the yearbook photo editor, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.839 and her beloved thirty five millimeter camera was never far 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.080 from her side. One thing is clear from the many 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.160 stories or friends shared. Tammy liked to have fun. She 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.680 enjoyed life. But in the midst of all these sweet 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:13.320 natured stories, a common thread came through. God. I remember 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.880 a story about a time when she was walking down 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:17.960 the hallway with a friend and a guy was sort 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.080 of harassing him, and she turned around and just kind 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:21.920 of ducked him. I don't know if she I think 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.599 she just pushed him hard and he left them alone 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:29.760 after that. How can you forget a girl who Again 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.560 we're talking the mid to late nineteen eighties, and Tammy 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.200 she knew what she was worth, do you know what 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.880 I mean? Like she was not going to be harassed. 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.400 Within all that, Tammy had a mind of her own, 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:52.200 and joe Anne explained she was fiercely driven. She rarely 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.799 got caught up in any drama and instead stayed focused 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.120 on her future. Well, she did very well with writing, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.359 writing with something that she from the time she was 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:07.120 in a second grade or something, she really enjoyed writing. Also, photography, 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.680 she did some very, very very good photography, so she 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:16.760 was added in that direction. I could see her for 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:22.039 one of the magazines, you know, writing and pictures and 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.160 things like that, and I think that's what she would 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.880 have been happy with, Dawn, And that was kind of 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:31.320 what she was. I was looking at every opportunity she had. 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:36.920 She did. She took a lot of pictures. While many 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.120 of her peers stayed in the South. When it came 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.000 time to attend college, choosing schools like Clemson or the 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.159 University of South Carolina, Tammy decided on a different route, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.840 once again expressing her independence. Classmates say they initially had 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.760 no idea where Grinnelle was, but that they weren't surprised. 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.680 Tammy had decided to go mainly because she longed for 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:04.800 a differn experience, and so in nineteen eighty nine, Tammy 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.920 packed up her belongings and moved to Iowa to study 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:13.640 art history in Spanish. She took academic seriously, and we 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.800 were often studying either at the library or in a 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.800 dorm room or in a lounge. But that was sort 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.200 of the way it was at Grinell. People were having fun, 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:27.360 but it was also an academically challenging school, and you 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.080 went there because you wanted to learn and you were 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.200 ready to work hard. That's Jen Nelson, Tammy's closest friend 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:39.640 from college. She was incredibly friendly and people were drawn 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.840 to her. She was always there for a laugh. She 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.800 wasn't judgmental. She just liked to have fun. She also 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.440 took it seriously academically, we all did at that school. 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.480 But it was I liked studying with her, I liked 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.480 hanging out with her, I liked dancing with her. She 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.320 was the kind of person that just brought the party 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.920 to whatever conversation you were having. I think what I 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.680 remember most isn't as much about her her play on 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.000 the field, but just the energy that she brought to 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.800 the team and the fun and the camaraderie. A lot 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:18.400 of Tammy's college life revolved around sports, soccer, rugby, photographing 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.600 various teams. Most of her friends also knew her as 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.320 a teammate, including Marta, who was co captain of the 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.160 soccer team at Grinnell and called Tammy by her nickname Z. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.520 So we had this large group of freshmen on the 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:35.840 soccer team, and she played for two years as a 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.000 soccer player, and then she switched over to rugby, and 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:40.839 that was sort of no surprise to a lot of 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.400 us that she wanted to get in and play maybe 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:48.280 with someone demon even tougher, tougher sport with rugby. So 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.920 she switched over, and then she became our photographer for 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.679 a number of sports, but including our women's soccer team. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.240 And so we also have this really clear memory, or 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.240 what I do, of Tammy being on the sidelines, still 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.920 in her soccer shorts, but with a camera around her 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.839 neck and just you know, circling the field and taking 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.120 photos of us. Amy Joe was the other captain of 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.880 Grinnell's soccer team. She and Marta asked to be interviewed 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.640 together and wasted no time swapping stories about Tammy. Marta 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.760 and I and Tammy were There were eight of us 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.760 freshmen in the fall of nineteen eighty nine, and so 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.800 we all started the same year, and we were the 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:32.040 biggest recruited class that Grenell College Soccer women's soccer had 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.800 ever had. So we were special because it was only 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.600 the fourth year of the program. Maybe, but I actually 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.679 met Tammy on a recruiting visit to Grnew we went. 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.640 I went out with her and are another soccer player 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.080 at the time. We went to the bar. Marta and 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.360 Amy Joe further described Tammy as someone who quote brought 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:00.400 the fun. It's a sentiment echoed by pretty much everyone 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:05.040 I spoke with, including another college friend, Stacy Pappas. I 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:11.160 remember one beautiful day, I was inside working and I 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:15.680 heard a bit of a commotion outside and it was 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.320 Tammy and she was just diving into a pile of 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:24.840 leaves and just playing and just like like, hey, come out, 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.200 come out, all you people's study. She was joyful, you know, 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.800 just u she when she was on the sideline, she 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.520 would be starting a cheer or making up a funny 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.800 rhyme or doing some kind of a like a song 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.960 or doing something to just keep everybody laughing. Oh and 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.360 also her pregame breakfast on the road when we would travel. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.760 She we were chatting earlier, Martin and I were remembering 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.680 she would or always order like a huge stack of 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.600 chocolate chip pancakes and just you know, while we were 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.719 all trying to like eat something that was like a 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:01.800 good thing to eat before a game, she would just 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.640 be pouring on the maple syrup and coach Coach would 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.679 just roll his eyes like, oh boy, you know, but yeah, 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:12.720 she just went for it. Hearing these anecdotes about Tammy 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.000 takes her out of the true crime headline space and 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.600 humanizes her memory and who she was, which is something 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.400 that is very important to me personally as well as 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.520 with my work. Thirty years have passed, and yet listening 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.120 to her friends talk about her, you'd think it was yesterday. 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.960 Losing someone to murder can have that kind of lasting 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:40.800 influence on your life. It almost intensifies those memories, illuminates them. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:46.679 I can see from here how she was so special, 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.800 how she had such a full life in front of her, 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.280 in a way that at the time I could. I 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.040 knew I was sad, obviously, but I think I'm sadder 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.600 now than I was then. If that makes sense, it 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.480 makes perfect sense, because in one way, there is the 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.160 what could have been way of thinking all that was missed, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:12.439 all that never was. As time went on, it was easier. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.360 I didn't want to go back to Grinnell, I didn't 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.160 want to go to the reunions. I didn't want to 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.040 think about it. And then I got to the point where, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.360 you know, I've got kids. Now. I have a teenage daughter, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:30.319 blonde ponytail running down the soccer field, and of course 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.200 I thought of Tammy as I coached her. Every time 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.520 i'd see her running down the field after a soccer 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.679 ball and turn with a big smile on her face 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.680 after making a play. It made me happy thinking about 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.440 Tammy and thinking about the fact that that spirit was 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:52.439 living on in other people. Something I've thought about while 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.160 researching this story is the fact that what happened to 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.160 Tammy happened to so many young women during that period, 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:04.160 and albeit in smaller numbers, it still happens today. A 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.720 few days after Tammy's body was found in September nineteen 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.679 ninety two, a journalist for the Chicago Tribune wrote an 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:16.240 opinion piece about Tammy's case titled never More Free or 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:21.079 More in danger? Reading it was edifying. The op ed 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.160 said in part that Tammy's life was quote an example 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.679 of the freedom women could only dream of two generations back. 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.760 Her death is a reminder that in this age of freedom, 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:40.199 women must still live in the bondage of fear. Here's 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:45.000 Stacy Pappas again. I just think that, first of all, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.760 none of us are safe, while these people are probably 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.520 our world. What happened to her should never happened, but 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.599 obviously it does. We live in a world that it 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:00.840 is a very broken and damaged world, and what can 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.439 we do to make this a safer place for all 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.840 of us, for this next generation of young women who 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.559 are graduating from school. I think that we have an 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.440 obligation to each other and to the next generation to 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.600 do what we can do to heal this broken world. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.960 After Tammy's death, some of her friends formed a group 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.360 called Fearless. Its goal was to help empower women on 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:35.120 and off Grinnell's campus and ensure that all drivers were 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.080 safe on the roadways. The leaders of Fearless used Tammy's 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.800 death as a catalyst for a nationwide initiative, a movement 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:47.880 to install emergency call boxes along major highways with regards 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:52.120 to the violence Tammy suffered. The group's leader said, we 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.200 have the job. That's our job to make sure that 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.680 our generation doesn't have to get used to that, that 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.480 our children don't have to get used to that, and 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.360 our children's children don't have to get used to that. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.240 We thought we were safe, We were nearly done. We 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:19.280 studied abroad, and you know, had boyfriends and breakups and everything, 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.680 and we were supposed to be taking on the world 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:28.880 and somebody killed her. The story has to be about 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:38.680 a real person who was proud and smart and fierce 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:43.680 and not always perfect and funny, who loved her cats 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:49.280 and broke up with her boyfriend. That person is the 0:15:49.320 --> 0:16:00.960 one who was killed. Her death means something. Last year 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:05.040 was the thirtieth anniversary of Tammy's death. It was difficult 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.760 for many of her friends and family to wade through 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.760 memories open up to me about Tammy and her life, 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.720 not to mention the pain they all went through. I 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.520 immensely appreciate the trust in me to share such a 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.240 personal and painful part of their lives and Tammy's life, 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:29.160 and I'm very grateful for the opportunity. Some questions, even 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:33.040 those that seem rather ordinary, can be the toughest to answer. 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.640 What would have Tammy gone on to do? Oh heck, 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.160 I mean, I don't know. I know she wanted to 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.760 do something with Spanish, and I wouldn't be surprised at 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.520 all if she was a teacher, a Spanish teacher or a 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:54.120 a Spanish prov with a sideline photography business and a 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.640 couple of kids. I think she would have a family. 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.360 I see her doing a lot like I did, becoming 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:04.840 a coach and coaching her kids, you know, sports year round, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.080 you know, especially in soccer. You know. I think she 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:13.320 would be a successful photographer. You know. I think whatever 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.960 field she would have eventually gone into, I think she 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.240 would have been at the top of her field. She'd 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.600 be eating chocolate, sheip, pancakes. I like to think that 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:27.000 she would be married and be a soccer mom and 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.600 still be rocking the umbros or the soccer shorts, driving 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.040 a minivan, go into games, taking pictures of her own 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.199 kids playing. I see Tammy as a mom, an artist, 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:45.000 a photographer, and just you know, joyful. Yeah, I think 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.040 I would like to think of her as having traveled 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.760 more of the world and bringing her photography around the globe, 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:58.399 and and dancing and dancing, and yeah, yeah. A word 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.240 we often hear within the victor side of the true 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.960 crime space is closure, how the solving of a cold 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.760 case can maybe shut the door for family members and 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:13.000 friends and all the evil that happened. From personal experience, 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.160 I can say it's not a word that best describes 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:21.639 what victims families are looking for, yet it does offer 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.680 some solace to put a cap on the justice end 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:29.600 of it. I just I really do hope that Joanne 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.040 has closure, you know, and her brothers have closure. They 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.800 do deserve that, you know, to be at peace with 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.760 this and not have to, you know, wonder any longer. 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.760 And I hope that I hope they can do something 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.520 to provide that peace to her family because they deserve it. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.399 They've been through a lot over these last thirty years, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.879 and no family should have to go through that. That 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.880 was Mary Anne Fox, Tammy's good friend, and she caps 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.879 There's the essence of what victims families, at least the 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.480 hundreds I have interviewed as well as my own, are 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:12.399 searching for peace, a way to close the door on 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.160 the criminal part of it all, and remember their loved 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:22.600 one as they were in the days and weeks that 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.560 followed Tammy's death. The tragedy was a reminder for everyone 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.560 of the dangers young women face every single day. But 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.440 more than thirty years later, Tammy's loved ones hold onto 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:39.439 memories of her smile, her laugh, her absolute zest for life. 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:45.600 Her spirit lives in them. I missed Dammy. I have 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.560 a picture oft I think of what she, where she 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.200 would be and what she would be doing. I feel 0:19:51.200 --> 0:20:05.159 like she could have been a very successful young lady. 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.600 If you are enjoying Paper Ghosts, please listen to my 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.200 other podcast, Crossing the Line with em William Phelps, where 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.320 I use the same storytelling elements you've heard in Paper 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:22.119 Ghosts and cover missing person and murder cases. Paper Ghosts 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.200 is written and executive produced by me Em William Phelps 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:32.520 and iHeart executive producer Christina Everett. Additional writing by our 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:38.760 supervising producer Julia Weaver. Our associate producer is Darby Masters. 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.800 Audio editing and mixing by Christian Bowman and Abu Zafar. 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.840 Our Series theme number four four two is written and 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:53.480 performed by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney. For more podcasts 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:58.760 from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:00.760 you listen to your favorite shows.