1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is a production of iHeartRadio. In the very 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: first episode of Paper Ghosts, I talked about the importance 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: of hearing from loved ones and a missing person or 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: murder case. We rely on them to introduce us to 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: and humanize a victim, share details about a life that 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: was lost, but more significant to me than anything else, 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: a life that was lived as a victim's advocate. Talking 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: to families and friends is the most moving aspect of 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: any story I cover, and always my starting point into 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: a case. In high school, Ye to Tammy Ziwiki's loved 11 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: ones painted a beautiful picture of who she was, allowing 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: me a glimpse into who she might have become. Because 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: of time constraints, many of these stories didn't make it 14 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: into the third season of Paper Ghosts, but I thought 15 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: it would be a disservice if they went unheard, so 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: I'm sharing them here to help us better understand the 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: amazing young woman behind the headlines. That picture up there, 18 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: that was taken at the beach we were or that 19 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: was our summer vacation. That's the whole family. How old 20 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,919 Speaker 1: is she there? Oh? I guess she was about baby 21 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: sixteen or fifteen. Sixting she liked her long hair. Tammy 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: Joseph Wicki was born on March thirteenth, nineteen seventy one, 23 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: in pleasant Hill, Pennsylvania. Her mom, Joanne, describes her as 24 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: a good natured, independent person who was rarely seen without 25 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: her camera or her cat. Tell me about that picture there, 26 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: that's her cat. She'd ever lived without a cat. She's 27 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: not one in their dorm room. She snuck a cat 28 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: into it, yes, really yes, And did she ever get caught? Nope? 29 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: And the one she's stuck in there, she managed to 30 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: keep it in there because her best friend was the 31 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: dorm monitor or whatever it was, and she wouldn't down. 32 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: She was just a very young She was an easy 33 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: corn person. Everyone I spoke with described Tammy as audacious 34 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: while also being slightly rebellious, not to mention a lot 35 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: of fun. She was the only daughter in a family 36 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: of six something. Her brother Todd thinks truly shaped who 37 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: she was. Tammy was one of these sweet but also 38 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: tough kind of girls. Right. The toughness, I think it's 39 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: partly a personality, partly dealing with three brothers. But she 40 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: was just a truly kind person who had really good friends. 41 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: She was involved in music for a while. She did 42 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: color guard in the band, played a lot of sports, 43 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: but just a very fun, adventurous person who was open 44 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: to new experiences, made friends easily, was a natural leader. 45 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: She actually, I think found her high school soccer team 46 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: because she wanted to play soccer and they didn't have one, 47 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: so she founded it. Became to co captain. When she 48 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: was little, she used to play on boys teams, you know, 49 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: until basically she got to high school and they creative 50 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: girls team. God bless the woman who coached the team 51 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: knew almost nothing about it. She had been the cheerleading coach. 52 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: And I look back and I think we'll thank goodness 53 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: she had the energy to do this. Amanda Potts played 54 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: soccer with Tammy at east Side High School in Taylor, 55 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: South Carolina, a suburb of Greenville. The women's sports programs 56 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: were still new when they attended, but Tammy, who played 57 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: for years on wreck teams, was a standout. She was 58 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: a fierce midfielder. She had endless energy. I learned what 59 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: midfield meant by watching Tammy play, because she could really 60 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: make the plays happen. Amanda described Tammy as the opposite 61 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: of a Southern bell, which she added got you noticed. 62 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: In South Carolina in the mid eighties, we had to 63 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: wear these short shorts. Oh my god. The team uniforms 64 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: were yellow jerseys with like blue pinstripes and these blue 65 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: shorts that barely covered anything. And the poor cheerleading coach 66 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: now soccer coach, used to yell, manage your shorts, ladies, 67 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: and Tammy thought that was hilarious. And I can remember 68 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: her teasing us, manage your shorts. Manage your shorts. Soccer 69 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: was an important part of Tammy's life in high school. 70 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: She also loved photography and became the yearbook photo editor, 71 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: and her beloved thirty five millimeter camera was never far 72 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: from her side. One thing is clear from the many 73 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: stories or friends shared. Tammy liked to have fun. She 74 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: enjoyed life. But in the midst of all these sweet 75 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: natured stories, a common thread came through. God. I remember 76 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: a story about a time when she was walking down 77 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: the hallway with a friend and a guy was sort 78 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: of harassing him, and she turned around and just kind 79 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: of ducked him. I don't know if she I think 80 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: she just pushed him hard and he left them alone 81 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: after that. How can you forget a girl who Again 82 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: we're talking the mid to late nineteen eighties, and Tammy 83 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: she knew what she was worth, do you know what 84 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: I mean? Like she was not going to be harassed. 85 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: Within all that, Tammy had a mind of her own, 86 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: and joe Anne explained she was fiercely driven. She rarely 87 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 1: got caught up in any drama and instead stayed focused 88 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: on her future. Well, she did very well with writing, 89 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: writing with something that she from the time she was 90 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: in a second grade or something, she really enjoyed writing. Also, photography, 91 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: she did some very, very very good photography, so she 92 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: was added in that direction. I could see her for 93 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: one of the magazines, you know, writing and pictures and 94 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: things like that, and I think that's what she would 95 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: have been happy with, Dawn, And that was kind of 96 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: what she was. I was looking at every opportunity she had. 97 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: She did. She took a lot of pictures. While many 98 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: of her peers stayed in the South. When it came 99 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: time to attend college, choosing schools like Clemson or the 100 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: University of South Carolina, Tammy decided on a different route, 101 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: once again expressing her independence. Classmates say they initially had 102 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: no idea where Grinnelle was, but that they weren't surprised. 103 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: Tammy had decided to go mainly because she longed for 104 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: a differn experience, and so in nineteen eighty nine, Tammy 105 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: packed up her belongings and moved to Iowa to study 106 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: art history in Spanish. She took academic seriously, and we 107 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: were often studying either at the library or in a 108 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: dorm room or in a lounge. But that was sort 109 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: of the way it was at Grinell. People were having fun, 110 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: but it was also an academically challenging school, and you 111 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: went there because you wanted to learn and you were 112 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: ready to work hard. That's Jen Nelson, Tammy's closest friend 113 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: from college. She was incredibly friendly and people were drawn 114 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: to her. She was always there for a laugh. She 115 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: wasn't judgmental. She just liked to have fun. She also 116 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: took it seriously academically, we all did at that school. 117 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: But it was I liked studying with her, I liked 118 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: hanging out with her, I liked dancing with her. She 119 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: was the kind of person that just brought the party 120 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: to whatever conversation you were having. I think what I 121 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: remember most isn't as much about her her play on 122 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: the field, but just the energy that she brought to 123 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: the team and the fun and the camaraderie. A lot 124 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: of Tammy's college life revolved around sports, soccer, rugby, photographing 125 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: various teams. Most of her friends also knew her as 126 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: a teammate, including Marta, who was co captain of the 127 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: soccer team at Grinnell and called Tammy by her nickname Z. 128 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: So we had this large group of freshmen on the 129 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: soccer team, and she played for two years as a 130 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: soccer player, and then she switched over to rugby, and 131 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: that was sort of no surprise to a lot of 132 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: us that she wanted to get in and play maybe 133 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: with someone demon even tougher, tougher sport with rugby. So 134 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: she switched over, and then she became our photographer for 135 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: a number of sports, but including our women's soccer team. 136 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: And so we also have this really clear memory, or 137 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: what I do, of Tammy being on the sidelines, still 138 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: in her soccer shorts, but with a camera around her 139 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: neck and just you know, circling the field and taking 140 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: photos of us. Amy Joe was the other captain of 141 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: Grinnell's soccer team. She and Marta asked to be interviewed 142 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: together and wasted no time swapping stories about Tammy. Marta 143 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: and I and Tammy were There were eight of us 144 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: freshmen in the fall of nineteen eighty nine, and so 145 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: we all started the same year, and we were the 146 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: biggest recruited class that Grenell College Soccer women's soccer had 147 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: ever had. So we were special because it was only 148 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: the fourth year of the program. Maybe, but I actually 149 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: met Tammy on a recruiting visit to Grnew we went. 150 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: I went out with her and are another soccer player 151 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: at the time. We went to the bar. Marta and 152 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: Amy Joe further described Tammy as someone who quote brought 153 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: the fun. It's a sentiment echoed by pretty much everyone 154 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: I spoke with, including another college friend, Stacy Pappas. I 155 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: remember one beautiful day, I was inside working and I 156 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: heard a bit of a commotion outside and it was 157 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: Tammy and she was just diving into a pile of 158 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: leaves and just playing and just like like, hey, come out, 159 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: come out, all you people's study. She was joyful, you know, 160 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: just u she when she was on the sideline, she 161 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: would be starting a cheer or making up a funny 162 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: rhyme or doing some kind of a like a song 163 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: or doing something to just keep everybody laughing. Oh and 164 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: also her pregame breakfast on the road when we would travel. 165 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: She we were chatting earlier, Martin and I were remembering 166 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: she would or always order like a huge stack of 167 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: chocolate chip pancakes and just you know, while we were 168 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: all trying to like eat something that was like a 169 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: good thing to eat before a game, she would just 170 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: be pouring on the maple syrup and coach Coach would 171 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: just roll his eyes like, oh boy, you know, but yeah, 172 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: she just went for it. Hearing these anecdotes about Tammy 173 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: takes her out of the true crime headline space and 174 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: humanizes her memory and who she was, which is something 175 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: that is very important to me personally as well as 176 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: with my work. Thirty years have passed, and yet listening 177 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: to her friends talk about her, you'd think it was yesterday. 178 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: Losing someone to murder can have that kind of lasting 179 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: influence on your life. It almost intensifies those memories, illuminates them. 180 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: I can see from here how she was so special, 181 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: how she had such a full life in front of her, 182 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: in a way that at the time I could. I 183 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: knew I was sad, obviously, but I think I'm sadder 184 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: now than I was then. If that makes sense, it 185 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense, because in one way, there is the 186 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: what could have been way of thinking all that was missed, 187 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: all that never was. As time went on, it was easier. 188 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: I didn't want to go back to Grinnell, I didn't 189 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: want to go to the reunions. I didn't want to 190 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: think about it. And then I got to the point where, 191 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, I've got kids. Now. I have a teenage daughter, 192 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: blonde ponytail running down the soccer field, and of course 193 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: I thought of Tammy as I coached her. Every time 194 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: i'd see her running down the field after a soccer 195 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: ball and turn with a big smile on her face 196 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: after making a play. It made me happy thinking about 197 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: Tammy and thinking about the fact that that spirit was 198 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: living on in other people. Something I've thought about while 199 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: researching this story is the fact that what happened to 200 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: Tammy happened to so many young women during that period, 201 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: and albeit in smaller numbers, it still happens today. A 202 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: few days after Tammy's body was found in September nineteen 203 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: ninety two, a journalist for the Chicago Tribune wrote an 204 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: opinion piece about Tammy's case titled never More Free or 205 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: More in danger? Reading it was edifying. The op ed 206 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: said in part that Tammy's life was quote an example 207 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: of the freedom women could only dream of two generations back. 208 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: Her death is a reminder that in this age of freedom, 209 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: women must still live in the bondage of fear. Here's 210 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: Stacy Pappas again. I just think that, first of all, 211 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: none of us are safe, while these people are probably 212 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: our world. What happened to her should never happened, but 213 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,599 Speaker 1: obviously it does. We live in a world that it 214 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: is a very broken and damaged world, and what can 215 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 1: we do to make this a safer place for all 216 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: of us, for this next generation of young women who 217 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: are graduating from school. I think that we have an 218 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: obligation to each other and to the next generation to 219 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: do what we can do to heal this broken world. 220 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: After Tammy's death, some of her friends formed a group 221 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: called Fearless. Its goal was to help empower women on 222 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: and off Grinnell's campus and ensure that all drivers were 223 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: safe on the roadways. The leaders of Fearless used Tammy's 224 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: death as a catalyst for a nationwide initiative, a movement 225 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: to install emergency call boxes along major highways with regards 226 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: to the violence Tammy suffered. The group's leader said, we 227 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: have the job. That's our job to make sure that 228 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: our generation doesn't have to get used to that, that 229 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: our children don't have to get used to that, and 230 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: our children's children don't have to get used to that. 231 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: We thought we were safe, We were nearly done. We 232 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: studied abroad, and you know, had boyfriends and breakups and everything, 233 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: and we were supposed to be taking on the world 234 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: and somebody killed her. The story has to be about 235 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: a real person who was proud and smart and fierce 236 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: and not always perfect and funny, who loved her cats 237 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: and broke up with her boyfriend. That person is the 238 00:15:49,320 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: one who was killed. Her death means something. Last year 239 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: was the thirtieth anniversary of Tammy's death. It was difficult 240 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: for many of her friends and family to wade through 241 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: memories open up to me about Tammy and her life, 242 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: not to mention the pain they all went through. I 243 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: immensely appreciate the trust in me to share such a 244 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: personal and painful part of their lives and Tammy's life, 245 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: and I'm very grateful for the opportunity. Some questions, even 246 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: those that seem rather ordinary, can be the toughest to answer. 247 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: What would have Tammy gone on to do? Oh heck, 248 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I know she wanted to 249 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: do something with Spanish, and I wouldn't be surprised at 250 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: all if she was a teacher, a Spanish teacher or a 251 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: a Spanish prov with a sideline photography business and a 252 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: couple of kids. I think she would have a family. 253 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: I see her doing a lot like I did, becoming 254 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: a coach and coaching her kids, you know, sports year round, 255 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: you know, especially in soccer. You know. I think she 256 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: would be a successful photographer. You know. I think whatever 257 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: field she would have eventually gone into, I think she 258 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: would have been at the top of her field. She'd 259 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: be eating chocolate, sheip, pancakes. I like to think that 260 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: she would be married and be a soccer mom and 261 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: still be rocking the umbros or the soccer shorts, driving 262 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: a minivan, go into games, taking pictures of her own 263 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: kids playing. I see Tammy as a mom, an artist, 264 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: a photographer, and just you know, joyful. Yeah, I think 265 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: I would like to think of her as having traveled 266 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: more of the world and bringing her photography around the globe, 267 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: and and dancing and dancing, and yeah, yeah. A word 268 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: we often hear within the victor side of the true 269 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: crime space is closure, how the solving of a cold 270 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: case can maybe shut the door for family members and 271 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: friends and all the evil that happened. From personal experience, 272 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: I can say it's not a word that best describes 273 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: what victims families are looking for, yet it does offer 274 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: some solace to put a cap on the justice end 275 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: of it. I just I really do hope that Joanne 276 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: has closure, you know, and her brothers have closure. They 277 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: do deserve that, you know, to be at peace with 278 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: this and not have to, you know, wonder any longer. 279 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: And I hope that I hope they can do something 280 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: to provide that peace to her family because they deserve it. 281 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: They've been through a lot over these last thirty years, 282 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: and no family should have to go through that. That 283 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: was Mary Anne Fox, Tammy's good friend, and she caps 284 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: There's the essence of what victims families, at least the 285 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: hundreds I have interviewed as well as my own, are 286 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: searching for peace, a way to close the door on 287 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: the criminal part of it all, and remember their loved 288 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: one as they were in the days and weeks that 289 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: followed Tammy's death. The tragedy was a reminder for everyone 290 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: of the dangers young women face every single day. But 291 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: more than thirty years later, Tammy's loved ones hold onto 292 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: memories of her smile, her laugh, her absolute zest for life. 293 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: Her spirit lives in them. I missed Dammy. I have 294 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: a picture oft I think of what she, where she 295 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: would be and what she would be doing. I feel 296 00:19:51,200 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: like she could have been a very successful young lady. 297 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: If you are enjoying Paper Ghosts, please listen to my 298 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: other podcast, Crossing the Line with em William Phelps, where 299 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: I use the same storytelling elements you've heard in Paper 300 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Ghosts and cover missing person and murder cases. Paper Ghosts 301 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: is written and executive produced by me Em William Phelps 302 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: and iHeart executive producer Christina Everett. Additional writing by our 303 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: supervising producer Julia Weaver. Our associate producer is Darby Masters. 304 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by Christian Bowman and Abu Zafar. 305 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: Our Series theme number four four two is written and 306 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: performed by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney. For more podcasts 307 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 308 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.