WEBVTT - Transforming Workplaces to Support Women Leaders

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. All right, well, we just

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<v Speaker 1>had a great chat Carroll, as you know, about the

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<v Speaker 1>future of AI, the disruption of big ideas, so exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>The future is here and now, but we've got the

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<v Speaker 1>old school problems. We've still got left to think. In

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<v Speaker 1>one of those problems, gender equality. What a new slash

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<v Speaker 1>for us, Carol Masser. So true, right, still tough to

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<v Speaker 1>be a woman in the workplace, guys. So on the

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<v Speaker 1>first day of Women's History Month, we are thrilled to

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<v Speaker 1>be joined by Carol Gefner, Professor of the Practice of

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<v Speaker 1>Governance and Management at USC's Sole Price School of Public Policy.

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<v Speaker 1>Fight On Carol. Her new book, Building a New Leadership

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<v Speaker 1>Ladder Transforming male dominated Organizations to support Women on the

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<v Speaker 1>Rise is out now and she joins us via zoom

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<v Speaker 1>from La Carol, great to speak with you, and thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for being here. Talk to us about the book and

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<v Speaker 1>what's different about it. Because there's so many books and

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<v Speaker 1>there's so much advice out there about how to survive

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<v Speaker 1>the workplace as a woman. What's unique about yours? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you and it's great to be here, and I

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<v Speaker 1>do unders and that you are a trojan as well, Madison.

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<v Speaker 1>So with that being said, most books, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>your audiences, as you said, has been smothered with books

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<v Speaker 1>about leadership and gender and so on. Most books look

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<v Speaker 1>at the individual. Most books say, hey, if you do this,

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<v Speaker 1>and you do that, and you learn this skill and

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<v Speaker 1>you you know, use your voice, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, you

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<v Speaker 1>are going to be more successful, you will advance in

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<v Speaker 1>your career. Well that's not true. That's only half true.

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<v Speaker 1>The other half of that story is that the organization

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<v Speaker 1>needs to do a lot of hard work to change

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<v Speaker 1>up their systems, their policies, their processes, and that's not

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<v Speaker 1>being done. A lot it is being done in some cases.

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<v Speaker 1>But if that is not done, women actually do not

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<v Speaker 1>tend to advance through the most senior levels, and the

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<v Speaker 1>data supports that. So, Carol, you work with companies conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, this is not a new problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Been talking about it for a long time. So what

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<v Speaker 1>is it that companies? I mean, you tell them this,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we have these conversations on and on and on.

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<v Speaker 1>We had a great guest yesterday that said, it's got

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<v Speaker 1>to be enough when it comes to diversity and inclusion.

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<v Speaker 1>Enough talking like, let's see action. So tell me about

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<v Speaker 1>some of these conversations that you have with companies and

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<v Speaker 1>why they aren't getting it done. Sure, so I do

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<v Speaker 1>work within the business sector, but also the public sector,

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<v Speaker 1>so I have a broad point of view. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to your point, this is an old conversation, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons I wrote the book, because it's

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<v Speaker 1>an old conversation. Let's change the conversation. So to get

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<v Speaker 1>it done, the organization needs to invest all the way.

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<v Speaker 1>You know you can't. You can't open a d EI office,

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<v Speaker 1>hire a d EI officer and just track numbers and

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<v Speaker 1>think that that's where your job start stops. Actually that's

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<v Speaker 1>where it starts. So in order to make a difference,

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<v Speaker 1>and there are some organizations that are doing this. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>I have a client right now our company is working

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<v Speaker 1>with to in fact change it up. What companies have

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<v Speaker 1>to do is they have to be prepared for. First

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<v Speaker 1>of all, a commitment that lasts. It costs money and

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<v Speaker 1>it costs other resources. You have to really change the policies,

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<v Speaker 1>the practices, the procedures. And I know that sounds very heady,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you don't do a deep dive and change

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<v Speaker 1>what's going on in the organization, then what you've got

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<v Speaker 1>is a bunch of individuals making decisions every day. And

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<v Speaker 1>we're all human, we all have biases, myself included, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's what tends to reign supreme. So as an example,

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<v Speaker 1>our firm right now is working in a lot of spaces,

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<v Speaker 1>but one of them happens to be law enforcement. And

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<v Speaker 1>the head of this particular organization is one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 1>committed and has been working for almost two years to

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<v Speaker 1>get this to happen, and they are now with us

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<v Speaker 1>starting to look at all the relevant policies. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>who comes in the door, who gets hired, who gets promoted,

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<v Speaker 1>who gets transferred, what's happening to women along the way,

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<v Speaker 1>and not just women, of course, all marginalized communities and

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<v Speaker 1>us and sectors and segments. So that's what's needed. And

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<v Speaker 1>the starting point is a CEO, a president, a chief,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever your context is. Where it starts is at the

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<v Speaker 1>top and takes a lot of courage. So it starts

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<v Speaker 1>at the top. But what is the single biggest company

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<v Speaker 1>wide change that you have seen companies make after having

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<v Speaker 1>worked with you that you've seen be successful. So that

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<v Speaker 1>if you know, let's say a CEO is listening to

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<v Speaker 1>this program right now, what's one change that they could make,

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<v Speaker 1>great question. So they make it more than just a priority.

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<v Speaker 1>They make it more than just you know, the strategic

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<v Speaker 1>priority for the next year. They build it into everything

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<v Speaker 1>they do. They build it into their mission, they build

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<v Speaker 1>it into their vision that their values. They I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>these are the big changes when you ask me, what

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<v Speaker 1>do I see? This is the work that our clients

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<v Speaker 1>are doing, and they hold people accountable. In the business sector,

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<v Speaker 1>here's here's what can happen. And some of actually my

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<v Speaker 1>clients have done. They tie incentive systems, that is, bonuses

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<v Speaker 1>for people who are at levels where they get bonuses.

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<v Speaker 1>They tie bonuses to progress, measurable progress. Is that there

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<v Speaker 1>is that also and we're just because we're running out

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<v Speaker 1>a time, Carl. Is it also happening in a big

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<v Speaker 1>way in publicly held companies because I just feel like

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<v Speaker 1>we go through this with ESG metrics or impact on

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<v Speaker 1>the climate that unless there's really some kind of penalty

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<v Speaker 1>by investors or otherwise, a company really is just focusing rightfully.

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<v Speaker 1>So perhaps you know, on returning value to shareholders. So

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<v Speaker 1>it just got about thirty seconds left here. Are you

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<v Speaker 1>seeing this move in the public sector and publicly held companies? Yeah, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I wish I was Pollyanna, but I'm not so not enough.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, the wizzened the small segment of companies

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<v Speaker 1>that are you know, sophificated ahead of the game, setting

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<v Speaker 1>the curve. They're the ones that understand that at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day, if you only focus on return

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<v Speaker 1>and ROI and shareholder results, you are missing the game

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of retention and recruitment of top talent and

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<v Speaker 1>all the other aspects that come along with building a

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<v Speaker 1>great organizational culture, which actually is the glue for making

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<v Speaker 1>this work. All right, Carol, thank you so much. Carol Gefner.

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<v Speaker 1>She is Professor of the Practice of Governance and Management

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<v Speaker 1>at USC's so Prize School of Public Policy USC. You're

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<v Speaker 1>all a monor and we love it. We know it,

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<v Speaker 1>we love it. Her new book is called Building a

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<v Speaker 1>New Leadership Ladder. You are listening and watching Bluebirg Radio