1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, two agents dead in an 2 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: early morning raid trying to affect a search want in 3 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: the Sunrise area population about eighty five thousand. Why because 4 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the alleged purp was a child pornographer. And now these 5 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: two FBI agents Often and Schwarzenberger are dead, leaving behind 6 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: spouses and children to wonder why my mom? Why my dead? 7 00:00:53,120 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, Agent Sharp Personal five patients 8 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: right now, two patients, five patients at this time. Right now, 9 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: I have one officer shot in la and Ralph the 10 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: Brown Gerald of one time shot to the SHOULDERBI with 11 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: me an all star panel to try to make sense 12 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: of a nonsensical situation. To cold to board Hotch Globe 13 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney joining me out of Houston. Former prosecutor, 14 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Gardier, a Board certified clinical psychologist, Professor Behavioral 15 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: Medicine TURO, author of Causes of Autism on Amazon. Jeff Cortesi, 16 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: former FBI special agent at Jeff Cortesi dot com joining 17 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: me from the Bay Area, California. Doctor Tim Gallagher, the 18 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: medical examiner for the State of Florida at pathcaremad dot com. 19 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: Glenn Pounder CEO Child Rescue Coalition and special guests joining me. 20 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: Steve Harrigan, Fox News correspondent there in Miami. Steve first 21 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: to you when we hear about agents gunned down in 22 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: the line of duty, shot dead. All they were trying 23 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: to do was effect a search warrant on an alleged 24 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: child pornographer. What went wrong? That's what the investigation hopes 25 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: to figure out, because certainly things did go tragically wrong 26 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: yesterday just after six am in the dark, when shots 27 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: rang out. I'm out in front of those apartments. Now 28 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: it looks like an upscale gated community. There are orange 29 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: cones up and law enforcement helicopters in the sky still, 30 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: but traffic is moving. Apparently, according to the Miami Herald, 31 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: citing unnamed law enforcement sources, the gunman inside the perpetrator 32 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: opened fire with an assault rifle before the task force 33 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: could even reach the door. Fired through a closed door, 34 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: monitoring their approach on a doorbell camera. So you look 35 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: at the door, there's all large bullet holes coming out 36 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: from an assault rifle. So two of two agents dead, 37 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: three wounded. Two of those wounded multiple gunshot wounds. They 38 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: are both in stable condition in the hospital. The third 39 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: wounded agent treated on the scene, but certainly agents calling 40 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: this a dark day in the history, one of the 41 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: deadliest for the FBI, Nancy, one of the worst shootings 42 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: in that area in thirty five years, when agent Ben 43 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: Grogan and Jerry Dove were both shot down in a 44 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: gun battle with armed robbers. Once again, a bloody crime 45 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: scene when agents are gunned down in the line of duty. Now, 46 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: this is how it works, correct me if I'm wrong, 47 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: Straight out to Glenn Pounder. Glenn joining me from Chief 48 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: Operating Officer Child Rescue Coalition. What happens is there are 49 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: agents poised on the dark Web at all times when 50 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: they see the trading of child porn, children molested and 51 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: treated like animals on video, and photograph the trade like 52 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: baseball cards amongst pedophiles. They can look at the Internet 53 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: provider and actually find exactly where your location is, and 54 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: that I believe it's what led them to this apartment 55 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: they're in Sunrise. What about it, Glenn, Yeah, thank you, Nancy, 56 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: And I think this is going to be very uncomfortable 57 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: for your listeners, but it needs to be said that 58 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here is not child pornography. It's 59 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: the rape, the sometimes violent rape of children, sometimes very 60 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: young children. And I think sometimes that gets lost when 61 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: these news stories are put out because you know, some 62 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: some people might have in mind, well, you know, was 63 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: this somebody dressed up as a fifteen year old and 64 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: posing in a video. That's not what we're dealing with here. 65 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: We're dealing with the rape of children, sometimes as young 66 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: as infants, and obviously sometimes that rape is sometimes violent, 67 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: and the videos of that horrific abuse being traded both 68 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: on the deep web what we call the deep web 69 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: and the dog web, and organizations like ours are able 70 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: to help law enforcement find the information they need the 71 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: serb legal process in a case like this, and that 72 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: is exactly Glenn Pounder or how Dan Alfin and Laura 73 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: Schwarzenberger were shot down dead. I'm very curious back to you, 74 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: Steve rig and Fox News joining me from Miami. There 75 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: on the scene at the apartments. Whenever agents go in 76 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: to make an arrest or a search, I assume that 77 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: they were wearing vests. It's my belief that the lay 78 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: in weight that he was alerted to their arrival by 79 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: his ring door. He didn't wait for them to knock 80 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: at the door. He ambushed them as they were walking 81 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: up to the door getting to the door by shooting 82 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: through the door. Huge holes in the door that indicate 83 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: an assault weapon was used. Explain what you know, Steve Harrigan. 84 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: Right now, it's local media in Florida. The Miami Herald 85 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: and other newspapers, citing unnamed law enforcement sources, said that 86 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: is exactly what happened. This perpetrator monitored the approach of 87 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: the Child Pornography Task Force through a ring doorbell camera 88 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: and then opened fire before they even got to the door. 89 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: Right now, they are saying that this operation giving a 90 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: search warrant was meticulously planned. But I think questions are 91 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: gonna be asked because this turned out so badly. Why 92 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: was a squat team or a tactical team not involved. 93 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: Why were there not efforts made to take this perpetrator 94 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: outside of his home. This is, of course, one of 95 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: the deadliest operations possible. When you are going into a house, 96 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: when you are approaching, how you don't know what's inside. 97 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: Two agents now lost their lives because of that. Jeff Cortesi, 98 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: former FBI special agent a Jeff Cortesi dot com. You're 99 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: hearing what our Fox correspondent Steve Hereagan is saying, I 100 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: imagine having done arrests in search, warrants, subpoena deliveries. Myself, 101 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: I always picked the early morning hours because I know 102 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: that perhaps dopers other ne'er do wells are asleep when 103 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: the rest of us are up, awake and working. They're 104 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: up all night and sleep all day. So typically an 105 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: early morning raid works the best. That's why we see 106 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: it happened so often. What if anything went wrong, well, 107 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: I think what is I mean, you're hear here on 108 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: the head Obviously, you know, having been with the FBI 109 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: for a lot of years and part of the SWAT teams, 110 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: I was engaged in a lot of these early morning engagements. 111 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: And I think part of the calculation is the fact 112 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: that these child pornography and child exploitation cases, you know, historic, 113 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: we were always some of the most unpredictable, some of 114 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: the most dangerous to serve um. Yesterday was no exception, 115 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: And you know, I think a lot of it potentially 116 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: is rooted in the fact that, you know, what we're 117 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: dealing with is somebody who is presumably living a double life. 118 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: This is not somebody who is likely and outward and 119 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: open criminal. Um and and in fact, the activity that 120 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: he's engaged in, the criminal activity's allegedly engaged in, is 121 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: the kind of activity that the most heinous and most 122 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: violent of criminals consider a borrent. So you know, the 123 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: unmasking of this, this hidden side, the unmasking of this 124 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: criminal activity is not uncommon for law enforcement to take 125 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: very seriously because you know it can trigger a reaction, 126 00:08:50,840 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: whether suicide by Copple or violence of this nature. Crime 127 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Greece for those of you just joining us, 128 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: we are talking about the horrible events that have unfolded 129 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: and Sunrise, Florida. It's near Fort Lauderdale, near the Everglades, 130 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: population about eighty five thousand, where you think crime would 131 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: be at an all time low, and a small area 132 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: like that, a small community wrong. You never know who 133 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: is a child predator, who is trading child pornography? Horrible images. 134 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: I've seen them. They are sickening, sickening. These two agents 135 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: have devoted their lives to fighting for children and now 136 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: they are dead thanks to this PERV hold up barricaded 137 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: in his apartment, who ambushed the two agents as they 138 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: walked toward the door, joining an all star panel but 139 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: back to Steve arigin Fox He's correspondent joining me there 140 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: at the apartments. I understand that the purp had time 141 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: to barricade himself in his apartment and then shoot through 142 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: the door. That's easily determined forensically whether he shot through 143 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: the door, so he had time. He lay in wait, 144 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: barricaded himself as he saw the agents coming. That's right, 145 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: and neighbors around this apartment heard the shots. Just after 146 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: six am. Some came out to see what was going on. 147 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: Law enforcement told them to get back inside their houses. 148 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: Within minutes, there was a huge law enforcement presence here. 149 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: There was a squat team operating on a nearby child 150 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: pornography case. They came to join the fight with armored vehicles. 151 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: It was one of those armored vehicles that was able 152 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: to pull one of the wounded agents out to safety. Guys, 153 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: take a listen to ours at WPLG Local ten or Not. 154 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: Fires was a sunt tense moments Tuesday morning as an 155 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: FBI rate in sun Eyes turned deadly when two agents 156 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 1: were killed and three others were injured by gunfire were 157 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: inside of the development officers. It started around six am 158 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: when law enforcement moved in on this apartment complex off 159 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: of knob Hill Road, just south of forty Hoard Street. 160 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: The FBI says they were executing a federal court ordered 161 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: search warrants as part of a violent crimes against children case. 162 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: But then bullets began flying. FBI agents shot personal patients. 163 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: Right now, two patients are when I hear what was happening, 164 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: the confusion surrounding the gunning down of two innocent agents. 165 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: Alfin lays behind a wife and a child. Schwartzenburger lays 166 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: behind a husband and two children. Now Alfen and back 167 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: to you. Steve Harrigan had been fighting fighting child pornogurae 168 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: and violent acts on children four years. As a matter 169 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: of fact, he brought down a major major dark web 170 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: child porn site called Playpen, resulting in the recovery of 171 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: nearly three hundred children and their identification. He's been in 172 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: this for a long time. And Schwartzenburger, her specialty was 173 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: tracking child pornographers. She even took time to go speak 174 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: at middle schools telling children how to be safe. That's 175 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: who we're talking about, real life, everyday hero, Steve. These 176 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: two were both veterans and one of the most difficult 177 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: task forces there is where they had to deal with 178 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: horrendous things day in and day out, violent child pornography. 179 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: Both had worked in this area four years, and as 180 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: you said, both leave families behind. Alfin in his thirties, 181 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: leaving a wife and one child, Schwartzenburger her forties, leaving 182 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: a husband and two children. And they were pillars really 183 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: at the community as well. Schwarzenberger a regular speaker, trying 184 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: to advise elementary and high school students how to avoid sexting, 185 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: how to avoid getting trapped, really trying to avoid having 186 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: these children come to her later with problems. So dedicated 187 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: to the community, working an incredibly tough job, going out 188 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: every day and putting their lives on the line. Jeff, 189 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: of course has the former special astion FBI. Wouldn't it 190 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: have been standard operating procedure for them to be wearing vests? 191 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: And what does that tell you about the kits these 192 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: two took. Yeah, so leading into the arrest, obviously they 193 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: would be wearing other you know, mandated tactical equipment and gear, 194 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: you know, which includes their tactical vests, you know, outside 195 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: of the enhanced vests that are tactical teams are swat 196 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: teams where you know, if he was using an assault rifle, 197 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: depending on the caliber. You know, these vests are not 198 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: really built to withstand that kind of firepower. What do 199 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: you mean by that? Not built to withstand that fire firepower? Blah? 200 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: Why would we put agents at risk if the vests 201 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: can't protect them? Well, I mean, it depends on how 202 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: many rounds The vest curuct depends on where the shots 203 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: were located. But you know, depending on the size of 204 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: the round, there are rounds that exist that will penetrate 205 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: law enforce some standard issued vests. To Jeff Cartesi, I 206 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: understand the identity of the pur has been kept secret 207 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: up till now while they try to contact his next 208 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: of ken. What I mean, do you think the next 209 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: of ken are going to be open about the fact that, Hey, 210 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: this is my cousin. You know, it's hard to tell 211 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: exactly how a family will react to this situation. You know, 212 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: we've seen the gambits of family members go from everything 213 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: from denial to to um denial of the relationship, to 214 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: denial that anything that the individual was capable of doing 215 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: anything wrong. So the family response is unknown. Child pornography, 216 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: You don't want to admit someone you love or no, 217 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: we're related to you know, is a criminal much less 218 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: this type of crime. Guys. Take a listen to Willard 219 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: Shephard WTVJMC six. So what the circumstances we're here is 220 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: that we were now told that this person had a camera, 221 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: actually a ring camera, a system like that set up 222 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: outside of their apartment and actually saw the agents approaching. 223 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: Sources telling us that this person saw them coming up 224 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: to the door, actually opened fire before they actually started 225 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: the official process of executing the warrant. So that will 226 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: be something they will be looking into as a forensic 227 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: teams here behind me continue all of their work moving forward, 228 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: but right now the focus is on supporting the families 229 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: who lost their loved ones today. Straight out to Nicole 230 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: to board a hutch Claud criminal defense attorney in Houston, Texas, 231 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, and you can find her to board law 232 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: from dot com. Nicole, thank you for being with us. Now, 233 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: I guess every one of your clients going to run 234 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: out and get a ring doorbell cam because what was 235 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: created to protect law abiding citizens to let us know 236 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: who's at our door now being used against police. Well, 237 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: the good news is that this is very much an 238 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: outlier I've been doing this for several decades and fortunately 239 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,239 Speaker 1: I have never had a client launching attack on law enforcement. 240 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's generally speaking, helps the client who is 241 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: facing arrest to cooperate with police and when they know 242 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: that there's a warrant out there for them, the best 243 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: and smartest thing to do is to go and turn 244 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: themselves in. This can actually help in terms of sentencing. Ultimately, 245 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: if the client has ever found guilty, well, I'm glad 246 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: for you, and I mean that's sincerely a nicole deboored 247 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: hotchlamb that none of your clients that were shot a cop. 248 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: Because one of my friends early on in the District 249 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: Attorney's office who I befriended, Randy Chapani, was gunned down 250 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: on a routine traffic stop for no reason. He had 251 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: just just gott into the car and was gunned down 252 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: right there on the street. And the shot waves that 253 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: sent through the APD in the Fulton County DA's office 254 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: is something I'll never forget. I mean, the reality is, 255 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: to Jeff Cortez's former special agent with the FBI, it's 256 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: not that uncommon. And now ring doorbell cams are going 257 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: to be used against the police. This guy said a 258 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: horrible precedent. If they didn't already have a ring, they're 259 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: gonna have one by this afternoon at four o'clock when 260 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: they wake up. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see. 261 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: You know how what the investigation, internal investigation reveals about 262 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: the incident, this is not unfortunately, it's terribly uncommon thing. 263 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: It's it is what happens. It is why law enforced 264 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: and get the jocked up to conduct arrests, whether white, 265 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: polar or violent crime. There's a reason they go with 266 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: heavy force and they go early in the morning. We 267 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: want to mitigate the likelihood of this happening. But once again, 268 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: when you're talking about child exportation, child pornography crimes, these 269 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: are incredibly unpredictable people whose lives are going to be 270 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: ruined in ways that you know, Joe Criminal's life isn't 271 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: The unmasking of this this double life, the unmasking of 272 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: this criminal activity seens folks engaged in this activity into 273 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: a tailspin sometimes, and you know, violence is not an 274 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: unusual outcome. Time stories with Nancy Grace for those of 275 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: you just joining us, two special agents with the FBI 276 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: are being mourned now three others wounded too, still remain 277 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: in the hospital having a shot in the legs and 278 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: the arms. Special Agent Daniel Alfin just thirty six years old, 279 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: wife and child left behind. Special Agent Lars Schwartzenburger, forty 280 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: three years old, is behind a husband and two children 281 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: that want to know why my mom. The last they 282 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: saw her, she goes off to work and they never 283 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: see her alive again. Same for Alpin. Take a listen 284 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: to George Pierre, FBI Special Agent in charge. It takes 285 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: an incredibly special person to answer the call and do 286 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: the heroic work of an FBI special agent. It requires 287 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: self sacrifice. It requires putting one's self in harm's way, 288 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: not once, but again and again. Dan and Laura left 289 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: home this morning to carry out the mission they signed 290 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: up for and loved to do, to keep the American 291 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: people safe. They were valuable members of the FBI and 292 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: will forever be heroes. We will always honor their ultimate sacrifice. 293 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: And you know what happens in the blink of an eye. 294 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: You know to doctor Jeff Gardier, Board certified Clinical Psychologist, 295 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: Professor Behavioral Medicine at TRURO at doctor Jeff Guardier dot com, 296 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: author of the causes of autism on Amazon. Doctor Jeff, 297 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: it's great to hear your voice this morning, old friend. 298 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: I recall being out serving subpoenas with my investigator on 299 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: a triple homicide. I remember it like it was yesterday, 300 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: and we went up a porch and knocked, and there 301 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: was a screen door over the door, which makes it 302 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: easy for the person on the inside to see out, 303 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: more difficult for you to see in. And it was weathered. 304 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: It was dark, you know, not bright shiny metal screen door. 305 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: And the first thing we could make out was the 306 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: barrel of a gun pointed right at us, one foot away. 307 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: My investigator grabbed me. My hands were full of documents 308 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: and files. They went flying and we leapt, well, he leapt. 309 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: He pulled me with them off the porch, down about 310 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: I don't know, four or five feet. I'll never forget it. 311 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: And what I remember the most is I've only seen 312 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: the barrel through that screen, but the fact that it 313 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: happened so quickly. We didn't hear the door opened, the 314 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: main door. I didn't see anybody. I was looking straight there, 315 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,959 Speaker 1: looking down at my files and looking up, and all 316 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: of a sudden, there was the barrel of a gun 317 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking about these two walking up that 318 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: morning together. They were partners. The early morning, I was 319 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: still dark outside, went out of nowhere, they were ambushed. 320 00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: That dichotomy of the normalcy of the moment, and then 321 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: suddenly they're dead and their children no longer have mom 322 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: or dad anymore. Everybody's life is changed because of one 323 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: child pornographer. Absolutely Nancy, and these brave law enforcement heroes, 324 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: especially these two FBI agents. May they rest in peace. 325 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: These individuals, my god, they face this every single day. 326 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: They know that when they're going to go out and 327 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: apprehend someone or follow through on an investigation, that their 328 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: lives are in danger. Wait a minute, doctor, Jeff, I 329 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: hear you. I hear what you're saying. But Jeff Cortesi 330 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: a former special FBI at Jeff Cortesi dot com. Yeah, 331 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: I mean when I went out that morning to deliver savenas, 332 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,239 Speaker 1: and I guess I knew somewhere in the back of 333 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: my mind somebody connected to a triple homicide case might 334 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: not like me knocking on their door. I guess I 335 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: knew that way way deep buried. But if you listen 336 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: to that, you're paralyzed. You never get out from under 337 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: your bed. No task would would ever be achieved, no 338 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: dream whatever comes true because you're afraid. I mean, come on, courtesy, 339 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: When you go out the door and you get in 340 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: your car today, yeah somebody might t bone you had 341 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: a red light, but are you going to stop driving? 342 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: Do you really dwell on the fact. Yeah, they knew, 343 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: but they did their job anyway, COURTESI just like you. Yeah, No, 344 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: I don't think people can fully appreciate the amount of 345 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: result it takes to work the types of violations that 346 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: these agents were, the kinds against Children program, the kitty crimes. 347 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: The agents that work this program in the different field 348 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: offices have a type of resolve that is beyond what 349 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: I'm willing and able to do. I couldn't do it. 350 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: I've been involved in a lot of these arrests in 351 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: search forts, but the investigative process itself. So to your point, yes, 352 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: we all strap on a gun and anywhere we go 353 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: there's always at least one gun in the room, and 354 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: the likelihood that something can go wrong is always there. 355 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: But it is the willingness to overcome that, that fear 356 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: that makes folks like these so so courageous. It's a 357 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: really I mean, I'm the amount of courage it took 358 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: to do their day to day job exceeds I can't 359 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: say this enough. What any other FBI agent in the 360 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: bureau does when it comes to dealing with the day 361 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: in and day out heinous nature of the crime takes 362 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: a special person. These were special agents. And I don't 363 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: mean that is you know FBI special agents. These were 364 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: special special agents. You have to have a steal stomach 365 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: to deal with child pornography. I remember when I was 366 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: writing my first book, Jeff, and it dealt with you know, 367 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: I had to deal with people fascinated with rhymescens and 368 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: corpses and child pornography. When I finished that book, I 369 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: destroyed the computer. I thought it was bad luck. I 370 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: know that's crazy, but that computer, all those horrible, horrible 371 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: images live there. They're they're so upsetting that I don't 372 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: even like to think about them. And these two went 373 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: out every day and confronted the people responsible for child pornography, 374 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: for the rape of our innocent children. I mean Glenn Pounder, 375 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: CEO Child Rescue Coalition. It's hard to keep working when 376 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: that's what you have to look at and deal with 377 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, it really is, and then I agree 378 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: with the former agent that work in these cases is 379 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: some of the most difficult work that law enforcement does. Suddenly, 380 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: I worked in law enforcements for thirty one years. The 381 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: first case of mind like this was a VHS take, 382 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: which I guess shows my age a little bit. It 383 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: also shows that the Internet has played a huge part 384 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: in the pluriferation of child sexual beast material, but also 385 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: the ways in which these guys can connect, and certainly 386 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: the case Dan worked on, the Playpen case, those bad 387 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: guys to get into these closed rooms had to present 388 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: new child great videos of young children before the administrators 389 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: would let them in the rooms. And obviously Dan was 390 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: one of the heroes who worked on that case. And 391 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: Rescue helped rescue children all around the world. So FBII 392 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: many other agencies here in the US, state and local, 393 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: and then a world wide network with law enforcement that's 394 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: fighting this use on a daily basis. A friend of 395 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: mine was on the other warrant just a few miles away, 396 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: another child protection case. There were also guns on that 397 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: premises as well. You know, I went and testified at 398 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: Congress to a special committee about child pornography, and I 399 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: know they wanted to help. And when you tell people 400 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: about what you've seen, God bless them because they can't 401 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: grasp it. When you see it, it's something you will 402 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: never forget. In these two, Dan Alfin and Laura Schwarzenberger, 403 00:27:44,760 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: we're fighting the good fight. I'm stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 404 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: we are talking about the horrific shooting of two FBI 405 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: agentes who just left that morning to do their job. 406 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: Take a listen to George Pierreau. Dan was thirty six 407 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: years old. He was born in New York and joined 408 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: the FBI in two thousand and nine, with his initial 409 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: assignment to the FBI's Albany, New York office. He has 410 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: been assigned to FBI in Miami since twenty seventeen and 411 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: has worked crimes against Children violations for over six years. 412 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: He survived by his wife and one child. And what 413 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: about Laura Schwarzenberger listened to Pierre. Laura was forty three 414 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: years old. He was born in Frebero, Colorado, and joined 415 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: the FBI in two thousand and five. Her initial assignment 416 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: was with the FIES Albuquerque, New Mexico office. Who is 417 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: assigned to FBI Miami twenty ten and has worked climes 418 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: against Children cases for over seven years. She is survived 419 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: by her husband and two children. To doctor Tim Gallagher, 420 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: a medical exam or joining us from that jurisdiction the 421 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: Emmy for the entire state of Florida at pathcaremed dot com. 422 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher, thank you for being with us. I've got 423 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: a question for you. If these two were wearing vests 424 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: and tactical gear, which I do believe they were, how 425 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: is it that they both died on the scene. Well man, 426 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: So we have to remember that the tactical vest are 427 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: bullet resistance and they're not all bulletproof. Typically, they're able 428 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: to stop the projectiles up a handgun, so they're able 429 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: to stop project the bullets from a handgun fired from 430 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: a handgun, but assault rifles are different. There the bullets 431 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: go a lot faster, the bullets have sharp points on them, 432 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: and a lot of the times they're able to penetrate 433 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: through that kevlar vest and into the body to the 434 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: point where they can cause fatal injuries. Just thinking about 435 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: how they died there on the same guys, take a 436 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: listen to Hazel Vela at WPLG Local TENR Cut nine 437 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: here at Broward Health Emotional Support by way of a hug, 438 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: and minutes later, the heartbreaking images we didn't want to 439 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: see the body of one of the fallen agents brought out, 440 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: the American flag draped over as other officers and agents 441 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: salute two special agents, Daniel Alfin and Laura Schwartzenburger, making 442 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: the ultimate sacrifice while on duty. It is from here 443 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: where a somber procession takes off today. Some words from 444 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: the FBI Agents Association. They say these agents were working 445 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: to protect the most vulnerable in our society. We stand 446 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: with the agent's families and pledge to support them during 447 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: this difficult time. FBI agents risk their lives to protect 448 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: our country, and the loss of these agents is devastating 449 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: to the entire FBI community and to our country. Doctor 450 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, Why were they taken to the medical Examiner's 451 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: office after leaving Broward Health if they were already pronounced dead? 452 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: Good question. I mean, people do not go to the 453 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: medical examiners to be pronounced dead. You need to be 454 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: pronounced dead to go to the medical examiners. But the 455 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: medical examiner has jurisdiction over the body if it is involved. 456 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 1: If the death is involved during the commission of a crime, 457 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: or during the commission of a shooting. So these unfortunate 458 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: officers were killed in the line of duty. This is 459 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: a police involved shooting and that falls under the jurisdiction 460 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: of the medical examiners. So the bullets need to be 461 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: recovered from the body, if the bullets are retained in 462 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: the body, and those bullets need to be matched up 463 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: to the weapon that was used in the commission of 464 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: the crime. And this helped in the trial to convict 465 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: the suspect. To Nicole Deboord hots Globe, a high profile 466 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney joining us out of Houston, Texas, and 467 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: you can find her at the Deboord d e bo 468 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: Rde Law Firm dot com. Nicole, from what we know, 469 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: as the agents closed in on him after he gunned 470 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: down Alfin and Schwarzenburger, he then shot himself, echoing what 471 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagherant just told us. The autopsies must be 472 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: performed on all three of them to determine exactly whose 473 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: bullet fired the fatal shot. Yes, that's exactly right, and 474 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: I think you've raised some really great points. I mean, unfortunately, officers, 475 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: when they're doing their jobs, they're putting themselves in harm's way. 476 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: Day in and day out. And there are our jurisdictions 477 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: right now in our country where it is in vogue 478 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: to prosecute officers who find themselves in a position to 479 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: have to shoot back. And so you know, the risk 480 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: that they face and the fear that they may be, 481 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, really attacked publicly for ultimately preserving their own 482 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: safety is a very real problem right now for law 483 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: enforcement across the country. Take a listen to our cut fourteen. 484 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: This is Julie Nardi at WTVJ. That's in BC six 485 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: in South Florida. Listen, things have calmed down just a 486 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: little bit. Here you can see police tape that used 487 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: to be up blocking this road no longer up. But 488 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: this street, knob Hill Road, is still close though to traffic. 489 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: We spoke to neighbors earlier this morning who told us 490 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: what it was like when they woke up. Annoying neighbors 491 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: along knob Hill Road in sunrise woken up to the 492 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: sound of sirens. Moments later, the streets blocked off and 493 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: a warning from law enforcement to this community to remain 494 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: inside until further notice. When I got out, I noticed 495 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: a lotova police going on in the Nokil area. I 496 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: couldn't actually get out through noki La to get out 497 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: through the other side. Zorieta says she didn't hear the gunshots, 498 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: and neighbors were left scared and unsure as chaos unfolded 499 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: on their block. I one there would happen, but then 500 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: I ask around, I know, nobody know anything. She tells 501 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: us this is typically a safe community and has never 502 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: seen anything like this in the fifteen years she's lived in. 503 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: Sunrise was a middle class community dotted by residential single 504 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: family homes and apartments, where this perp lived in an apartment. 505 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: The fans were led to him by his IP address 506 00:34:53,600 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: after allegedly trading child pornography online or to doctor Jeff Garder, 507 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: clinical psychologist, Professor Behavioral Medicine at Touro. You can find 508 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: him at doctor Jeff Guardier garde ar dot com. Doctor Jeff. 509 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: We were listening to Cortesi describing how when you've got 510 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: a child molester or a child pornographer, once that arrest 511 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 1: or that search goes down, their double life is blown 512 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: to bits. The facade that they present to family, friends, neighbors, 513 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: at work, it's shot to h e double l and 514 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: the thought of that happening, I believe led this guy 515 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: to open fire on Alfred and Schwarzenberger. Absolutely, I firmly 516 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: believe that this was a person who knew that his 517 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: cover had been completely blown. What he was doing throughout 518 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: the years was absolutely horrific, criminal, just completely the worst 519 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: thing anyone can do to anyone else, especially children, in 520 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: promoting these sites or the site that he had, and 521 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: that's why he was ready to die. He was going 522 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: to take out as many people as possible, and he 523 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: knew that he would not walk out of their alive. 524 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: To Glenn Pound or Chief operating officer Child Rescue Coalition, 525 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: you can find him at Child Rescue Coalition dot org. Glenn. 526 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: Who are these people? Who are these child pornographers? I mean, 527 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: they're among us. We just can't see what they are 528 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: unless we look at their computer. Yes, it's a great point, Duncie. 529 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: I mean literally, I think back in the day everyone 530 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: had this impression of some guy in the basement. That's 531 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: just not the case. They're in all of our communities. Often, 532 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: we've seen hundreds of cases of oz where that these 533 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: guys are in positions of trust as well. We are teachers, doctors, lawyers, 534 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, upstanding members of the community, a church pastor. 535 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: The list goes on, so there are people who you know. 536 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: And I think what's also important is when we talk 537 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 1: about grooming, sometimes it's the adults who've been groomed, right, 538 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: So adults are grooms. They think, no, that couldn't be Bob. 539 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: He's a great guy, and so adults get groomed often 540 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: first before a child is because everyone believes he's such 541 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: a great guy. He can't be the one who's great 542 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: in children. I'm sorry to say these guys lived in 543 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: and around us every single city on the planet. Our 544 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: prayers are with the families our special Agent Daniel Alfin 545 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: and Special Agent Laura Schwarzenburger. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing 546 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,