1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Ruby. 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz. 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: What is the s World? 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: I'm Marco Went and this this is Amazing Wildlife, a 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: podcast where we explore unique stories of wildlife from around 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts. Now. This podcast 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: is in production with iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and San Diego 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: Zoo Wildlife Alliance, the international nonprofit conservation organization which oversees 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: the San Diego Zoo where we are right now and 10 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: the Safari Park. 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: Rick, I am super pumped. It's season four, right. 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 3: We're also adding a little bit of a different flavor 13 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 3: for our listeners. 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: If you're not aware. 15 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 3: Yet, we are adding a visual component. So we have 16 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 3: our amazing our stupendency piece. There, resist stunts, Amanda, our 17 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 3: videographer going to be listen Amanda. So this is going 18 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: to be super exciting for us, right, So a new 19 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: new kind of aspect for our guest experience Amazing Wildlife. 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: That's true, and so it does change the format a 21 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: little bit. So for our listeners that have been with 22 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: us over the years, it's still all the cool stuff, 23 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: but the format change is little and if you want now, 24 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: the videos are going to drop a little bit later 25 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 2: than the audio. So if you are watching this now, 26 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: thanks for joining us already. If you'd like to watch 27 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: it though, and you're just listening, well YouTube, probably maybe 28 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: somewhere else, right. 29 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: Right, we're gonna tease it a little bit, right, But 30 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: what do you suggest for us? 31 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: I think maybe they should follow you on Instagram as 32 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: zoology Marco, right, because is that way we can let 33 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: people know. 34 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 3: On Instagram and TikTok by the way, let TikTok talk, 35 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: but please follow zoology rick here ig. 36 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: Pretty much IG is my home. Yeah, yeah, that is 37 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: the best way to do it, and that way we 38 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: can let people know when the videos drop as well. 39 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: So but yeah, and if audio only is your thing, 40 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: well then stick with us because this is gonna be 41 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: an amazing season. 42 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: But you know, hey, while we're talking that, I kind 43 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 3: of noticed, did you bring a show and Tell items? 44 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: I did bring some show and tell? 45 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: Okay, what is? 46 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: This is our latest version of the San Diegos Wildlife 47 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: Alliance Journal. So we've got meerkats and the article is 48 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: so cool. A lot of times people think your catch 49 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: is cute, cuddly, fun and are cute. Yeah there cuddly 50 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: if you're also a merk cat. I suppose that's in 51 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: the family totally. But the article is fascinating. Wouldn't it 52 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 2: be great to talk to the person who wrote it, 53 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: and she happens to be a wildlifecare specialist here at 54 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 2: the San Diego Zoo. I love it that takes care 55 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: of meerkats. Lacey, thank you so much for joining us today. 56 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you Rick and Marco for having me. 57 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: Thanks so excited. Good morning, good morning. 58 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: There is so much in this article that's absolutely fascinating 59 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: that the way you wrote it in kind of layers 60 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: to bring the person reading it through. I want you 61 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: to do the most exact same thing here in the 62 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: sense of the very first thing you talk about is 63 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 2: a word Marco has been obsessed with. 64 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: Yes, you stress, right, Yes. 65 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: But it's stressed you st okay, so U s t. 66 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 4: R e s s U stress. 67 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's a very fancy way of saying a 68 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 5: light stressor something that builds confidence or resiliency. 69 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: Okay. 70 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 3: I mean that was fascinating for me, especially for social animals, 71 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: social dynamics, even birds and flocks. But I never really 72 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 3: thought of these specs in meerkats, you know. But before 73 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 3: we like deep dive into that. 74 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: Burrow so to speak. 75 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 3: Like that, you like that, Amanda? It was not good, Yeah, 76 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: thank you. You know, I was actually kind. 77 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: Of curious assuming our listeners. 78 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: Don't know what a meer cat is. Man, you can't 79 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 3: describe it for us a little bit right because I'm 80 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: kind of wondering. 81 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 4: It's a small mammal. 82 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 5: It's a type of mongoose, and it's light tan with 83 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 5: some striping on the back, so horizontal stripes along its body, 84 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 5: and then a little bit black on the tail, with 85 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 5: some black around the eyes. 86 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 4: Really small ears and a long pointy noise. 87 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: Made famous a little bit by Timoon from. 88 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 4: The line, oh yes, of course. 89 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: A couple of decades ago, there was a TV show 90 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: on one of the animal programs that it was like 91 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: a series following a family, which might have been a 92 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: little dramatized for television. But we want to talk about 93 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: the facts. We want to talk about the facts. You stress. 94 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: You'd mentioned as a stressor that's a light stressor that 95 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: can then help the individual grow from that. What came 96 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: to mind is a parent right away. What came to 97 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: mind was teaching my daughter to ride a bike. There's 98 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: very stress full, white knuckling, you know, the thing she did. Fine, 99 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: I was hit, but in the sense that initial stress 100 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: of learning something new, but once you make it through that, 101 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: it actually you grow from it. So how does that 102 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 2: apply to meer cat life? Because they don't ride bikes. 103 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 5: No, they don't ride bikes well yet, so much of 104 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 5: what meer cats do is learned behavior. So they do 105 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 5: have some natural tendencies. When they're first born, they do 106 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 5: move their little paws around almost like they're digging, but 107 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 5: they're looking around as though they have no clue what 108 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 5: this behavior. 109 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 4: Is or what the purpose is. 110 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 5: So a lot of what they do in life is 111 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 5: a learned behavior that they learn from watching their mob 112 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 5: mates and then mimicking. And so when they mimic those behaviors, 113 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 5: they learn that, oh, when I do this, I can 114 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 5: uncover meal worms and I eat them because everyone else 115 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 5: is eating them and they taste good or they're fulfilling 116 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 5: or whatever it is that they're being reinforced by. So 117 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 5: they start with u stress on their own right away. 118 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 5: When they start learning to walk, they're falling down all 119 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 5: the time, just like you're saying with your kiddos, you 120 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 5: know your kindo learns to walk. 121 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 4: It's so important to let them fall. It's hard. It's 122 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 4: really hard to watch them fall. 123 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 5: But the more they fall, the better they get it 124 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 5: balanced and they learn resiliency and they learn to trust 125 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 5: themselves to start walking. 126 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 4: Enough that they can run. 127 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 5: So it's all the behaviors they do that meer cats 128 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 5: do and that humans do help to build our resiliency 129 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 5: for new activities. And then the meerkat world, you stress, 130 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 5: is even more important later to learn to cope with 131 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 5: the environment as a whole, and not just the immediate 132 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 5: things that we think about like eating and sunbathing and sleeping. 133 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of dynamics too, right, And well, yeah, 134 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: within the mob, you know, the relationships between the individuals. 135 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking Africa and the desert. Yeah, the 136 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: different predators, serviles and birds of prey. 137 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 3: Are coming over, so a lot of things that these 138 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 3: animals have to kind of negotiate on a day to 139 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: day right. 140 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: Right, And I got to jump in real quick. We 141 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: have used this word a couple of times. Just to clarify. 142 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 2: You said mob mates, you said in the mob. So 143 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 2: just to let everybody know, I'm a meerkat. Collective group 144 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 2: is called a mob, and I think it's appropriate. We've 145 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: worked with meerkats plenty. Where do you think the name 146 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: mob of meerkats comes from? 147 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 5: I think it comes from their big attitudes. They're really 148 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 5: really confident in themselves, and oftentimes that leads to a 149 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,119 Speaker 5: dispute amongst mob mates. 150 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 4: If you will, we see. 151 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 5: Them, if they feel intimidated by anything, they will either 152 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 5: run away from it or they mob. They all kind 153 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 5: of run at the item at once to scare it away, 154 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 5: and that's I think where the term probably originated. 155 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: It makes sense. 156 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, it definitely makes sense that they're big attitudes. For sure, 157 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 5: they're very confident. 158 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 3: Oh that's great, And honestly, in the article, I loved 159 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 3: that what you were referring to you and you were 160 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 3: talking about the mob here at the San Diego Zoo, 161 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: write certain dynamics that happened. Could you, for our listeners 162 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 3: kind of describe briefly what happened here in this wonderful story. 163 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, just to give a little bit of background, 164 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 5: we did have a meerkat matriarch, so meerkats live in 165 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 5: a matriarchal society, and our dominant female at the time 166 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 5: had passed on. She was very bold and her daughters 167 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 5: had to decide who was the to be the next matriarch, 168 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 5: and so that always brings a lot of tension into 169 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 5: the mob. 170 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: Those decide it. 171 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not, it's more of a situation. 172 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 4: It is. Yeah, it's it's definitely not an election. It's not. 173 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 4: It's not very kind. 174 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 5: Everyone kind of throws their hat in the rings, so 175 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 5: to speak, but they do so by hip checking each other, 176 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 5: so throwing hips and then biting at each other and 177 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 5: vocalizing at each other in a it's not such a 178 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 5: nice sound. Could be a dominant, very very big display 179 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 5: of dominance, and when five or more meerkats are showing 180 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 5: that dominance, it can become bloody. So it's pretty violent looking. 181 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 5: But it's very important for them to be able to 182 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 5: identify who the next matriarch is because they're all going 183 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 5: to help raise those pups, and even if that's just 184 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 5: so that next time they can be matriarch, they are 185 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 5: going to assist in raising those pups so that in 186 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 5: the future they can maybe get their genetics spread. But 187 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 5: either way, they live in family groups, so by helping 188 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 5: you raise those pups, they're helping to raise their distant siblings. 189 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 5: So they are helping to further their own genetics. So 190 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 5: we think that's probably what draws that behavior a little more. 191 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 3: There's so much there, right, that's so many. 192 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: I digress, but real quick for you go further into 193 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: the family that we have here. Yeah, you mentioned in 194 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: the article too, that sort of what you just talked about. 195 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: It sort of seems when you look at it from 196 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: the outside, Oh, they're collectively working together to raise the young. 197 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: But I love the way you put us like, but 198 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: that's not exactly. It's like, it's more of us. They're not. 199 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 2: It's not altruistic. They're not looking at the family as 200 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: like over supporting each other. It really is so I 201 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: can get in there, hopefully next in line to be 202 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: in charge should the matriarch pass away or something happen 203 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: to her. 204 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's definitely some underlying quid pro quo there building. 205 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 2: Track the family here. 206 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 4: So we at a certain. 207 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 5: Point we only had females and they were all fighting 208 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 5: for it's matriarchy, but there wasn't a male and so 209 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 5: it made it a little bit confusing for them. 210 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 4: And we were seeing a lot of violence. 211 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 5: And in the past, if the violence gets to a 212 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 5: certain point, they don't have the to leave their habitat. 213 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 5: Like in the wild, they would just move on to 214 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 5: another space, which oftentimes could lead to death because they're 215 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 5: alone until they find another mob willing to take them in. 216 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 5: So we're not okay with death as an option, so 217 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 5: we move them to their own separate habitat and we 218 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 5: give them their own separate mob. So the individuals that 219 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 5: they do have a bond with still that they are 220 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 5: getting along with, we would separate them. So at a 221 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 5: certain point we had two separate groups with two females 222 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 5: in each group. Then we started witnessing that when there's 223 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 5: only two meerkats in a mob, that means one has 224 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 5: to be on sentry duty. Dy sentry duty is, thank 225 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 5: you MARKA sentry duty is when you're watching for predators 226 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 5: or any kind of danger that's on the horizon. So 227 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 5: they're watching out for hawks, snakes. We have an open 228 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 5: habitat here, open air habitat, so we do have hawks 229 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 5: in the area who come by, and we have airplanes 230 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 5: that are very feisty. So our meerkats are on sentry 231 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 5: duty half the day. But when they're on sentry duty, 232 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 5: they can't be eating to be sunning, and they can't 233 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 5: be digging, and so we started to notice that their 234 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 5: nails were getting a little bit longer from having less 235 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 5: time to self maintained. 236 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: Oh wow, not having enough meerkats. 237 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 5: There's not enough meer cats to help share that responsibility, right, 238 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 5: And so we thought, okay, it would be great if 239 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 5: we could put them together. But they don't like being together. 240 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 5: They're having this really big dispute. What are we going 241 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 5: to do? And we thought, well, we recognize that here 242 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 5: in managed care, we have this situation where we're taking 243 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 5: away so much of the stress that you find in 244 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 5: wild animals, right, which we think of as ethically good. 245 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 4: Right, we make sure they don't enough food. We don't 246 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 4: want people to be stressed. We don't want animals to 247 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 4: be stressed. So we took away your predators. You're having 248 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 4: to search for food in a very hot climate. San 249 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 4: Diego is beautiful weather. 250 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 5: You have all the food you could ever want here, 251 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 5: and most of the predators are gone because there's people 252 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 5: here all the time. And so we recognize that maybe 253 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 5: part of the reason that they are seemingly altruistic in 254 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 5: nature is because they are bonded from having to work 255 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 5: together against themselves against all of these outer stressors kind 256 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 5: of makes you feel like my brothers, you know, like 257 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 5: sometimes I kind of get a little upste with them 258 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 5: from time to time. 259 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: But if someone comes to my brother, right. 260 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yeah, exactly, that's exactly it. 261 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 5: So you're more likely to if you and he both 262 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 5: came together to make breakfast on a regular basis, right, 263 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 5: you would be more likely to defend him if someone 264 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 5: was going to come at absolutely. Yeah, no, I think 265 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 5: that's a pro. Well, that's exactly what merkats do. They 266 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 5: do not share food, like that is the one thing 267 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 5: they do not share. We'll all sleep together in the 268 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 5: same den, we'll all help dig around, and we'll all 269 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 5: help do sentry duty. But I am not going to share, absolutely, 270 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 5: which I totally get. 271 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 3: Wow, So you had the two moms, but they're too 272 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 3: focused on other certain dynamics of having a smaller mob, 273 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 3: like you mentioned the sentinel looking out and the other 274 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 3: one can maybe express those other behaviors that you're looking for. 275 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 5: Right, So we tried to find a way of bringing 276 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 5: in a light stress or a U stress to their 277 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 5: use stresser cap existence. And we thought, we have so 278 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 5: many other animals here that they've never encountered. 279 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 4: We have elephants. That's a very pungent feces from elephants. 280 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 5: And that's the great sense of smell is the size 281 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 5: of a meerkat. If I were a merkat coming upon 282 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 5: an elephant fecal pile for the first time, I would 283 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 5: be really intimidated. That's a strange smell. It's a humongous 284 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 5: animal that could definitely crush me. It's very intimidating. So 285 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,239 Speaker 5: we put that all over the habitat, hoping that maybe 286 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 5: the sense of a new animal will help change the 287 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 5: focus from aggression inward to protection from outward. 288 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: Wow. 289 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, external factors, right, I mean no, no, it makes sense. 290 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 3: I mean exturing in Africa, you know, like I'm not 291 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 3: with my buddies, my mom, We're chilling, we're having a 292 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: great time, and the big herd elephants come by. So 293 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: I'm gonna thumb the sentinel, get alert, let's get in 294 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 3: those burroughs. 295 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was about to say, even if it's 296 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: not something just like a big animal, that might be scary, 297 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: but if it is an actual true predator that might 298 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: be trying to hunt them, that sentinel puts out those 299 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 2: alarm calls. The group collectively then responds and does their 300 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: thing to go under or whatever they need to do. 301 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: Mob together, if it's a snake, whatever it may be. 302 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: So by adding these things in these youth stressors that 303 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,599 Speaker 2: clearly in the wild would make a mob act collectively 304 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 2: to protect each other. What did we see here on 305 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: this end of the zoo. 306 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 5: It seems to have worked as we had hypothesized, so 307 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 5: we were very excited. It seemed like the meerkats responded 308 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 5: as we had hoped. They all individually identified a concern. 309 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 5: They all went down the same tunnel, which we identify 310 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 5: as it's most likely their denning space. 311 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 4: It's where they come out first thing in the morning. 312 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 5: They all went down there separately, and then after a 313 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 5: couple of hours down there together when they came back up, 314 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 5: we offered food. 315 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 4: There were no discussions we. 316 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 5: Call them hip checking, aggressing toward each other, no vocalizations 317 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 5: that were aggressive, and they seem to be a lot 318 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 5: more cohesive. So this is something that we thought, well 319 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 5: that it could be a one off, right, We don't know. Yeah, 320 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 5: So we've tried a number of times since and we 321 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 5: varied the opportunity for you stress that we offer. So 322 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 5: we've put elephant feces. We've done other animals feces. We 323 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 5: have a kite that we have flown in the air 324 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 5: with the sound of a hawk. Yeah, that one was 325 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 5: very effective and they actually monitored that area for a 326 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 5: couple of weeks. 327 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: Wow. 328 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 5: They were very hyper vigilant about anything coming over and real. 329 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: Quick with all the trees. We have. Hats off to 330 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: whoever flew that kite. 331 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 5: Thank you. 332 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: That's amazing totally. 333 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 3: It's all the different dynamics of what you were thinking about, 334 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 3: you know, all this different kind of input that happens 335 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: out in Africa that you're replicating here at. 336 00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: The San Diego Zoo. 337 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 3: I mean, these animals evolved for certain reasons, any certain dynamics, 338 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 3: So that's really great that it worked out that way 339 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: for you. 340 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, really fascinating too that throughout. I mean both Mark 341 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: and I have thirty years yeah, in the businesses roughly 342 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: close and in all the years we've been working with 343 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: animals before coming to the podcast world, to look back 344 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: at what it was like ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, 345 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: the belief, like you had said, let's try and remove 346 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: as much stress from these animals lives as possible. To 347 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: then come full circle and realize well, actually, certain stress 348 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: is a really good thing for them because if it 349 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: helps them express other dynamics of their life, whatever may be, 350 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: And so for meerkats in this case, that social bond 351 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 2: becomes stronger. In the article, you mentioned then that these 352 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: two groups were separate, like you had said here, Yes, 353 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: but then doing these youth stressors, you were able to 354 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: bring all four together. Is that correct? 355 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, all four lived together, and a couple of them 356 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 5: still live here, still live together. But yeah, all four 357 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 5: lived together very well for the next I think we 358 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 5: did that back in twenty twenty three. So for the 359 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 5: next at least a year, the four females were living 360 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 5: together in harmony and they did some hip checking, which 361 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 5: is normal and natural. But we didn't see that overt 362 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 5: aggression that would cause us to want to separate again 363 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 5: from that point on, and we didn't have to reintroduce 364 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 5: these u stress opportunities frequently. Once we started seeing an 365 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 5: uptick in aggression, that could mean a very broad number 366 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 5: of things. Either there's a change in the diet that 367 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 5: needs to be addressed, or there's a health concern. 368 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 4: So, because there's so much going on. 369 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 5: In the society of meerkat world, we would kind of 370 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 5: play with what we thought the purpose was, and if 371 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 5: it seemed like it was aggression towards just trying to 372 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 5: establish a matriarchy, then we could add in just a 373 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 5: light YOUU stress. I think since fall of twenty twenty three, 374 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 5: we've maybe offered four opportunities for U stress, for light 375 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 5: use stress. So it's not been something we've had to 376 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 5: use frequently, but every time that we've used it has 377 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 5: actually changed the group dynamic in a positive way and 378 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 5: made them work closer together. 379 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: Nice. 380 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, nice. 381 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: At what point there was a male? Yeah, So I 382 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: want to just say before explain all because it's freaking fascinating. 383 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: When I was working with meerkats way back in the day, 384 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: the idea of introducing a new one or even there 385 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 2: was even issues with like if someone had to go 386 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 2: up to the vet hospital and they come back, Yes, 387 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: there was always just like the reintroduction process could be 388 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 2: super stressful and they might not accept them and there's 389 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: gonna be lots of teeth and claws and another vet 390 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 2: visit possibly because of that. So reading this article, I 391 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: was like, no, so please tell us how it happened. 392 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, So we weren't nervous this is a whole new meerkat. 393 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 5: This isn't a sibling that you've known in a past 394 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 5: life and you thought you evicted them long ago and 395 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 5: now they're back and it's like, oh, well, maybe they 396 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 5: never left. 397 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 4: That's my bad. 398 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: And a male to boot right. 399 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 4: But it's a male. 400 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 5: Yeah, And typically introducing a male is a little less 401 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 5: stressful for us, I will say, oh, yeah than introducing 402 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 5: a female. A female is a potential matriarch, and there's 403 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 5: a little bit more competition in the So that's that's 404 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 5: more stressful for me. 405 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 4: But that's use capital. 406 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 2: Yes for sure. 407 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, we introduced the male. We did a very similar setting. 408 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 5: Everyone had access to every habitat separately, and then we 409 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 5: brought in I think we had different sets that time 410 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 5: from someone else, what have you, And everything happened almost 411 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 5: exactly the same. 412 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 4: We had all of the females go to the male. 413 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 5: There was a lot of hip checking, there was a 414 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 5: lot of vocalization, and then they all went down to 415 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 5: their denning area where they had been familiar. And this 416 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 5: male had not been very familiar with the dynamic of 417 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 5: the group, which is fascinating because he'd had access to 418 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 5: the habitat, but a meer cat. Having a habitat without 419 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 5: another meer cat is very different than having another meer 420 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 5: cat to show you where the bolt holes are, which 421 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 5: are the holes they used to get away from predators, 422 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 5: or where do we done at night? So he had 423 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 5: seen everything, but it didn't have that meaning to it. 424 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 5: And then you could see once he had been introduced 425 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 5: to that group of females, he actually followed them down 426 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 5: the den hole to the den and when they all 427 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 5: came out, they were again just one family group that 428 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 5: was cohesive and they ate food all in front of us. 429 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 4: And from that moment on he's been a part of it. 430 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 4: And now he's a dad. 431 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: Say yeah, yeah, so when were the babies born? 432 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 4: So we had the pups born August twentieth. We had 433 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 4: four pups born. 434 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: And they are the cutest. 435 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 3: I was seeing some of those pictures on the magazine. 436 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 3: Yeah right, this is the photographers see man, the cutest 437 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 3: little babies. But they got a lot to learn out 438 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 3: there right with that mom there. 439 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: That's exciting. 440 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: Yeah wow, So I didn't realize there was so much 441 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: involved with just the social dynamics of meerkats. Hopefully our 442 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: listeners when they come to the san Diego Zoo and 443 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 3: they see our meer cats, so maybe like stop for 444 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 3: a second and just really look and observe the little 445 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 3: subtle nuances. 446 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 4: It's going on, right, Yeah, I hope. 447 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 5: So, I mean that I could stand there all day 448 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 5: and watch them because it's always different, it's always changing, 449 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,239 Speaker 5: and they're just they have so much to do. 450 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 4: They're so busy. 451 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: I always have to do in your meerkat. 452 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: And it's totally applicable too. 453 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 3: I mean, not just for our listeners outside of the 454 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 3: zoo world, but for professionals that we work alongside with. 455 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: I'm thinking for flocks, maybe an individual being introduced to 456 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 3: a flock, or maybe a different mammal herd species. You know, 457 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 3: this is a really fascinating way of approaching those things. 458 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, kudos to you guys. That's amazing. 459 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 4: Thank you. 460 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny you had mentioned that too, because when 461 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 2: I was reading the articles, like it reminds me of 462 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: those team building things where it's like you're trust well, I'm. 463 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 3: Not good to trust fall because I like to do 464 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 3: the trust Ask me about the trust fall. 465 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 2: You have trust issues? 466 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a little bit. That's another No. 467 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: Talking collectively about get everyone together to solve a problem, 468 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 2: and therefore you work together cohesively to solve that problem, 469 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: you become a stronger unit of group totally. So it's 470 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: one of those things where I can see how that 471 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: would work, how that dynamic would work then for meerkats, 472 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: and how it works in this stance, there's that collective 473 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: thing we need to take care of or deal with. 474 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: So right now, you're my buddy, and the kind of 475 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: con mention with your brother. It's like, no one's going 476 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 2: to come mess with my brother. I'll mess with him 477 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: sometimes I will, yeah, but no one else. So it's 478 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 2: really kind of cool. So how we can see some 479 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 2: of these behaviors are fasting interesting, Like, oh my gosh, 480 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 2: that's great. But it's like, oh yeah, that kind of 481 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 2: makes sense too, right right. Is there anything that we 482 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: haven't covered yet about mere Cash that you think our 483 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: listeners should know? 484 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 3: Do you have like a favorite fact too? I'm always 485 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 3: like your number one favorite fact. 486 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 5: That My number one favorite fact is that they lose 487 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 5: about five percent of their body weight overnight overnight treadmill, 488 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 5: which as they sleep, their metabolism is so high that 489 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 5: they have to spend almost the full day looking for 490 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 5: food which is when you think about that, that's a 491 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 5: whole other reason why you have to have more than 492 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 5: just two of you. Someone's got to watch for predators 493 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 5: while you're out there trying to eat. And then when 494 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 5: we have a pregnant mother, she obviously eats more. But 495 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 5: then once she gave birth to the pups, you could 496 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 5: really see her appetite pick up. 497 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 4: And for anyone who's nursed a. 498 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 5: Baby, they know as well, your your calorie intake has 499 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 5: to be even more when you're nursing. Yeah, it's fascinating 500 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 5: that they are obligate cooperative readers because they need someone 501 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 5: to watch the pups because moms metabolism is so high 502 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 5: she actually has to spend the entire day eating in 503 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 5: order to just. 504 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 4: Replace that calorie deficit. 505 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 5: Wow, So she's only down in the tunnel with the 506 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 5: pups to nurse them, and then the rest of her 507 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 5: day is just looking for food, looking for food, and 508 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 5: someone else is in the den with the pups, usually 509 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 5: another female. 510 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 2: You use a really fancy term. No, don't be sorry. 511 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 2: I love it because that allows us to talk about 512 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: it and educate people. Obligate cooperative breeder. 513 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, cooperative what you've. 514 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: Described is that the matriarch has the pups, she nurses, 515 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: but everyone else kind of babysits for her washy feet. 516 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: What does obligate cooperative breeder? Mean? Is that just basically 517 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 2: defining what we've already kind of talked. 518 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 4: About, or kind of it's saying. 519 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 5: You know, Meerkats are always thought to be these altruistic 520 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 5: animals where they work together for the better of the mob, 521 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 5: and that's what we say so often, But the reality 522 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 5: of it is they're probably less altruistic than we think. 523 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 5: They're probably require that many hands to make the work lighter, 524 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 5: so to speak, and if they didn't have those other individuals, 525 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 5: they probably wouldn't be able to reproduce successfully. So they 526 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 5: are obligate in the sense that they have to have 527 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 5: others in order to successfully give birth and raise the 528 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 5: birth to adulthood. 529 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: So they're obligated to act cooperatively so they can breed 530 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: and therefore carry their genetics on. Yes, that's awesome. Yeah, 531 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 2: that's awesome. 532 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 4: Thank you for the same. 533 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 2: I'm piece it together because I think a lot of 534 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 2: times in our world, we know these scientific terms and 535 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 2: we know what we're talking about when it comes to 536 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 2: social behaviors, and we use these terms without realizing some people, 537 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,239 Speaker 2: especially those on the other side of the camera or 538 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 2: listening to our podcast, need a little more frameing out 539 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 2: of what that means. And then it makes sense, you know. 540 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: And that's the beauty of this podcast and what we 541 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: get to do. We get to talk to specialists like 542 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 2: yourself who know this stuff inside and out. We can 543 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: bring it them to those who want to learn this 544 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 2: stuff as well. So thank you so. 545 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 4: Much, so much, thank you for having met time talking 546 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 4: about it. 547 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: Thank you know, wonderful way to start season four. Thank 548 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: you so much. 549 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: I'm really digging the visual components and we bring up 550 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 3: the and along with these adventures seas, it's going to 551 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 3: be really great. 552 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: And here right, Tim bucktoo in case the guests. 553 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 2: In the background, it's zoo, right, sorts of. 554 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 3: Animals, all sorts of mammals running around in copletingly our 555 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 3: little kids over here and nearby as well. 556 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: But there's so much happening. But again, thank you so much. 557 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you for having me. 558 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: Well, I had no idea, you stress man. That's my 559 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: new favorite word of the day. 560 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 2: It was your favorite this morning when we showed up. 561 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: That's such a. 562 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 3: Fun word and so much behind it. Tea, right, I 563 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: learned so much this episode. 564 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what I thought was cool too, is 565 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: the fact that you know, reading this article now, having 566 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: the opportunity to talk to her. She's so for lack 567 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: of a better term, hands in the dirt with the 568 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 2: mirror cast. She knows everything about it, right, and so 569 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: it's so cool to be able to have that opportunity 570 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 2: here and kick off season four with this here at 571 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: the zoo. Yes, it might be a little ambiance sound, 572 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 2: but I think you're here in Timbuck two at the 573 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 2: zoo is a great spot to maybe do some repisodes. 574 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: Oh I love it. 575 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: Not only is the auditory experience now with the visual component, 576 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: and I'd see all these adventures and bring a mand 577 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 3: along with us along the way. 578 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: So I'm super pumped about that. But it makes me think, like, man, 579 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: what are that going on? What's next? 580 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 2: Let me actually go back to the end of season 581 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: three where we talked to doctor Oliver Ryder about the 582 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 2: Frozen Zoo. 583 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, right, so we. 584 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 2: Talked him because we're teasing it. This year, twenty twenty 585 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 2: five is the fiftieth anniversary of the Frozen Zoo. Oh, 586 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: so I think we should go back to the Safari Park, 587 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: okay and talk to somebody who knows a lot about 588 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 2: the very beginnings of the Frozen Zoo to kind of 589 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: kick off the fiftieth anniversary way. I like it. 590 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: We get to go back to the park. I'm all 591 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: about there. 592 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: You go, Gar, so be sure to subscribing fun in the 593 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: next time when we get to find out a little 594 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 2: more about what started and how it all got started 595 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: really at the Frozen Zoo. 596 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: I'll Marko Went and I'm Rick Schwartz. 597 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening or watching. For more information about the 598 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 2: San Diego Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go 599 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: to sd zw a dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a 600 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. Our supervising producers are Nikia Swinton and 601 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan, and our sound designers are Sierra Spreen and 602 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: Matt Russell. For more shows from iHeartRadio, check out the 603 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 604 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 2: favorite shows.