WEBVTT - Where Everybody Knows Your Name: Charles Ponzi 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.400 Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:08.280 Zaren Elizabeth Zaren, How are you look at me? 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:08.920 Over here? 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.559 Please to meet president and accounted for? How you doing? 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:17.200 I'm doing well? I do you know what's ridiculous? I do? 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:22.360 Cliff Young you know this is no. In nineteen eighty three, 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.079 he was sixty one years old and he competed in 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:30.120 what was called the Westfield Sydney to Melbourne Ultra Marathon. Okay, 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.640 this was a distance of five hundred and forty four 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.519 miles what eight hundred and seventy five kilometers for those 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:36.400 who counted clicks? 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:36.760 What? 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.920 Yes, it was a race. Why I was called Westfield 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:41.879 Sydney to Melbourne is because it was a race from 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.879 the two largest westfield shopping centers, Westfield Parramatta in Sydney 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.520 and Westfield Doncaster in Melbourne. So they went from one 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:51.840 shopping mall to the other five hundred and forty four 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:52.440 miles away. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:53.040 Yeah. 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.560 That now, Young, as they said, sixty one years old, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.680 he competes in this, How does he compete? How does 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:00.920 he show up? He shows up in overalls and work 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.400 boots and he's like, I'm gonna run five hundred and 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.800 four or four miles. No, there's more to that, Elizabeth. 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.480 How he had practiced is he'd gone out and just 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.080 run to chasing sheep in like gum boots for like 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.160 two three days in a row, like didn't sleep, just 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.319 stayed up chasing sheep all around the pasture and the Yes, 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:21.800 so that's how he prepared. No, So then he goes 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:23.640 in and he and he races. He you know, he 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.240 competes in the Westfield Sydney to Meldon Ultra Marathon. And 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.080 when he goes the racers are presumed to like stop 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.400 to sleep each night. Yeah, he doesn't. Actually, it's not true. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:37.800 He slept the first night, right, and so most of 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:39.720 the racers gonna sleep for like six hours. He slept 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.560 for like a couple hours, wakes up and just starts 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.520 running again. And after that he realizes that there's nobody around. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.080 He's got a good lead, right, and he just keeps 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.880 doing that day after day. He just decides, you know what, 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.680 I'm not gonna sleep for the next five hundred miles 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:57.440 or whatever. And he finishes in first place, ten hours 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.360 faster than the next runner. He wins the whole darn thing. Now, 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.720 the race what it normally would took a much longer. 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.800 He finished it about I think it was a couple 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.200 of days, or like, let's see if I can figure 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.440 out how long it was. It was like a he 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.359 finished it a day long day before every anybody else 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.519 had ever finished it. Like he knocked a whole day's 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:22.240 time off of the Ultra Marathon. Yun yes, right, two days, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.080 two days faster than any previous runner had ever run it. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.240 Australians are built differently. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.480 Yes, and he ran the whole time at about a 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.440 nice comfortable cruising speed of four miles per hour. He 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.600 did not put himself out in the least. He just 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.040 ran night and day and night and day and night 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.920 and day time got to the shopping mall. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:42.720 He's amazing. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:47.520 Hero Cliff young, sixty one year old bad what a badass? 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.760 I love that. That's ridiculous. I have one more little 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.959 ridiculous thing before I kicked off to what's really ridiculous. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:54.760 Oh really, we. 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.800 Got a message from Rude Jude Raquel, who, when asked 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.799 where do you work, she said she works in Hell, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:08.600 which is also known as Walmart, Canada. Okay, but aside 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.200 from that, she's absolutely hilarious. But here's the thing. Is 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.440 there anything that you like to tell the rest of 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.119 your fellow listeners. This is on the survey on our website, 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.760 and she wrote, I would like to let you all 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.040 know that since hearing about how it would be appreciated 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.160 if brands would reach out to Ridiculous Crime if they 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.640 were coming up with any mashups. I've sent messages to 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:36.400 most major brands at this point, but still continuing informing 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.880 them of this and giving them the contacts for Ridiculous Crime. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.200 You're welcome, guys. It was my pleasure to do this 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.800 for the rude dudes and of Corus, for Elizabeth, and 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.000 most of all for Zarin. No need to thank me, 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:53.040 so I just have to say that is the most 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:54.960 incredible thing I've ever heard, Raquel. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:56.040 I respect the game. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.160 I want to like. If I get cool stuff, I'll 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.960 send you some of it. We'll share. But also, Grek 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.800 here will be an inspiration to all root dudes really 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.960 start harassing brands so that we get I want to 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.840 be able to try these things out and tell you 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.960 about them, or tell you about them before they hit 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.799 the market, so you're the first to know. Everybody. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:19.960 I would love to se. 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.800 And you you need to just buck up and take it, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.440 take it like a man. No, No, it's amazing. So 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.359 that's another ridiculous. Do you want to know what else 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:32.360 is ridiculous? 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:33.480 I think I got space for. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.400 Setting the stage for many crimers and con men to come. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:06.000 This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.680 heist cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free. Am 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.080 one hundred precent pridiculous. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.800 Damn right, I'm messed up. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.279 Okay, I'm going to start by quoting you some poetry. 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:22.840 Oh I like poetry, Yes, so do I. 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:28.320 Some say we're dreamers, some say we're schemers. Some say 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.560 we're fooled because we won't be their tools. I and 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.840 I a winner, We're no beginner, won't be your sinner 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:41.160 because we know jaw rules and we cares not what 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.880 Babylon say or what they say. We are. They got 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.320 to come, they got to come our way or they 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:55.200 won't get far. I'm the originator, no imitator. I'm the originator. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:00.640 I'm the creator Babylon. So that's Jimmy Cliff laying it 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.560 all out in his song Originator. I mean it's no 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.159 Peter Tosh singing I Am than I Am, which is 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.240 my second favorite track of his behind Stepping Razor, and 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.880 then followed by his cover of Johnny Be Good Danger. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.640 As you can probably tell, I was listening to my 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:22.279 roots reggae playlist. Where was I and I? Okay? Originator right? 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.720 I thought? As I thought about the guy that I'm 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:27.520 going to tell you about today, I kept thinking of 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.839 that word, which made me think of the song, which 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.080 made me put the music on. I want to talk 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.000 to you today about the originata. 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:35.599 Okay, who would that be? 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.599 Today's bad guy is none other than Charles Ponzi. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.320 Oh snap, the originator, the og. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:49.440 Pyramid scheme, Godfather, Chucky Pond, Pond, Arthur Ponzarelli. These are 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.800 the names I was coming up with for him. Okay, 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.159 we need to temper all of this with some information. 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.760 Ponzi didn't invent this type of scheme. 0:06:59.000 --> 0:06:59.960 It was named after him. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.280 Yeah. It showed up in Charles Dickens' novels. There's a 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.800 theory that Ponzi found inspiration in the crime stylings of 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:15.880 a guy named William Miller name that's a great nickname. 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.840 He was a Brooklyn bookkeeper who pulled the scheme on 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.560 investors back in eighteen ninety nine, and he took them 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.640 for a million dollars back then. Yeah, and that's like 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:29.280 forty million today, so you know, big time. But Ponzi. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.120 Ponzi made it his own and it carries his name 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.880 to this day. Ponzi scheme. We all know what that means. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.760 Pyramid scheme. You take people's money with promises of huge 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.440 investment returns and then you pay him off with the 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.200 money from a new crop of dupes. Lather, rinse, repeat. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.000 But Ponzi, he was amazing. He was a con man 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:52.880 for the ages. So let's dive in. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:53.400 Please. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.720 He was born Carlo Ponzi in Parma, Italy, eighteen eighty two, 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.960 and I hate that he anglicized his name to Charles Ponzi, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:04.800 but you know, you gotta do what you gotta do. 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.160 Investors, you gotta get it on your side. Carlo Ponzi 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:08.760 sounds a little bit Carla Ponzi's. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:10.200 It rolls off the tongue. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.760 Yeah, it's a little more poetic. But I imagine in 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:14.720 the early turn of the century it kind. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.400 Of maybe not so popular. He wasn't from some peasant 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.480 family living a hard scrabble existence, and like trying to 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.120 get by in a somewhat recently unified Italy. Now he 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.880 was from a well off family in Parma. He went 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:33.199 to the University of Rome and here's what he had 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.240 to say about that quote. In my college days, I 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.240 was what you would call a spendthrift. That is, I 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.440 had arrived at the precarious period in a young man's 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.720 life when spending money seemed the most attractive thing on earth, 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.800 and college just wasn't for him. It was not a 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.400 good fit. So he hopped on a ship and on 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.600 November fifteenth, nineteen oh three, he arrived in Boston on 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.840 the SS Vancouver. He only had a couple bucks on 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.480 when he stepped off the boat. And it's not like 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.440 other immigrant stories where people sold all that they had 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.679 to buy a ticket to America and they arrived with 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.480 like basically nothing and had to start from absolute scratch. 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:16.720 Can you imagine the desperation that drives people to do that, Like, 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.079 it's got to be really bad where you're coming from 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:20.960 to take that risk that's off. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.480 To then weeks at sea, I mean like probably in 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.800 like steerage level. Yeah, and it's not going to be. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.840 Dope, yeah exactly. But so Ponzi, and then. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:31.560 We get here, you ain't got anything. You don't know anybody, 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.240 most like except for maybe some people. You got to 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.200 like travel into a whole other city to find. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:36.679 Yeah you got Yeah, you just got to find people 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.480 that can help you survive, that know the language. So 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.000 Ponzi like he didn't have anything when he got here, 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:44.840 but it doesn't mean that he was broke when he 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.560 got on the boat. Like he had cash, but he 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.439 lost it to a card sharp on the ship, on 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.520 the ship, on the ship, he told the New York Times, quote, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:55.760 I landed in this country with two dollars and fifty 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.640 cents in cash, but one hundred million dollars in hopes. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.559 Those hopes never left me. So yeah, he may have 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.040 only had a couple bucks, but he didn't look like it. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.240 And his autobiography here's how he describes himself. Quote from 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.880 Tie to Spats, I looked like a million dollars just 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.880 out of the mint, like a young gentleman of leisure, 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.839 perhaps like the scion of wealthy parents on a pleasure tour. 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.640 And that goes to show that appearances don't mean a thing. 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.680 In fact, I was in a jam right there and 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:32.000 there in an economic jam and a critical predicament at that, 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.360 and five thousand miles away from home, and five hundred 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.200 or more miles away from my ultimate destination in a 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.320 strange country with no friends and no money. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:43.280 So uphill battle. 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:47.400 Yeah, and he said that like he looked so sharp. 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.800 He went on quote. To have landed in America without 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.600 money was not half as bad as having landed without 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.680 the least knowledge of its language. I could not fill 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.680 an office job because I did not speak or understand 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.359 a word of English. What I knew of other languages 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.920 did not help. Likewise, my general education was useless. As 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.920 a student and a man of frail physique, I was 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.000 not cut out for manual labor. Still, I had to live, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.080 and in order to earn a living, I had to 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.800 work at something. So you know, I mean that's again, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.680 like when you think about I thought about that. Visiting 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.160 countries where I don't know the language at all, How 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.600 did you get bught? Yeah, like Slovakia, where they speak Slovakia. 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.560 It doesn't make I have no point of reference. So 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.160 if I got there, I'd have to like sniff around 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.120 and try and find other Americans or maybe Brits, someone 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.840 who spoke English and then try and like get in 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.000 with that community and hope they can hook me up 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:47.320 with something some way to survive. So anyway, so he 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.200 had to live. But he also had this lust for 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.480 adventure and he had a sense of cunning that couldn't 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.440 be tamed. So he immediately went from Boston to New 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.000 York City and he bussed tables there. He went up 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.080 and down the East Coast, and he just took whatever 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.280 work he could get. Then he went to Florida and 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.040 became a sign painter. To Florida, Florida pub will not 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.319 see that coming sign painter. Yeah, I'm just wondering, like 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.439 did they give him like this is what it's supposed 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.679 to say? He doesn't know what it says. He's just like, oh, 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.160 put these letters in this order. 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.480 Yeah, I think if you mean the letters translate. 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.559 Right of course, But like you know, I get, I 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:24.800 don't know. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.359 As long as they don't have any you know, tabographical 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:28.240 or spelling errors. 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:34.000 He's painting, he has no clue. So he the whole 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.080 time all he wants is to be rich, filthy rich, 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.960 and he would try anything he could. In the meantime, 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.080 he was a grocery clerk. He said he was a 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.240 road drummer, which I think. I don't think it means 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.880 that he was like stepping in on tour with iron maidens. 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.839 I think it was like tamping down soil and prep 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.240 for tarmac to be applied. Oh, all the road drums 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.760 are those things like where the big bear rolls at 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.360 off ramps so that you hit him you don't die, Okay, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.840 But anyway, so he did that. He did sewing machine repair. 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:12.880 H was an insurance salesman, worked in a factory kitchens, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.800 you know, And he said, quote, in some of the jobs, 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.559 I lasted no time. In others I lasted longer. Often 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.280 i'd be fired oftener I would quit if my own accord, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.640 either disgusted or to avoid being fired. So he went 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.040 all over the place he did, like Pittsburgh, New York, Patterson, 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:38.560 New Haven, Providence, and then he gets to Montreal, Canada. Monreal. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.400 At this point, I mean, do we know anything about 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.559 his language skills or is he spent tiving to stick 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:44.520 around Italian community. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.559 I feel like he's sticking around Italian communities but picking 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.000 up English as he goes. He's super savvy in that sense. 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.200 So he gets to Canada, he gets a job at 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.960 a bank that had been formed to serve the Italian 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:03.920 immigrant community there in Montreal, bank Zarassi, named after mister Zarassi. 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.640 It sounds like a good venture, right, you know? It 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:14.440 was not. They charged these again absolutely outrageous interest rates, 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:20.640 and they made bad loans and they went bankrupt. And 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:25.240 so Ponzi he's got no job now, no money, mister Zarassi. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.560 He took off to Mexico, ditched his wife and kids, 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.120 and then off he goes. But like no worries, Ponzi 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:38.080 had a plan. He started forging checks, I'll be and 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:42.200 then he got blah busted. So he served a little 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.440 time for that, and of course he was like, you know, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.400 I was set up and so they forced me to 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.960 take the fall for this, and everyone's like okay, buddy. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:54.760 But he gets out of prison for that, goes back 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.720 to the States because it was easier to get work there. 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.920 So he hopped on a train and when on the train, 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.360 he ran into some fellow Italians and none of them, 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:10.040 not Ponzi or his compatriots, had travel papers. And so 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.920 at this point, like Ponzi, like I said, he'd picked 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.920 up some English. So he decides he's going to serve 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.240 as the interpreter for them, and so they get to 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.720 the border crossing Ponzi he steps up to talk to 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.120 the officers and then once again he gets busted, this 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.440 time with charges that he was smuggling those five Italians 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.640 from Canada into the States. So he served two years 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.800 for thateen ten to nineteen twelve in a federal prison 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:39.479 in Atlanta. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:41.760 So he was basically a Canadian coyote. 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:47.880 Yes. So when he got out, he went to Alabama 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.760 and because apparently there were some Italians there, they were 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.760 working in like mines outside of town. I don't know 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.720 what the mines in Alabama are, mayonnaise. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:59.520 I don't know. I don't know. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.920 So he got a job in town as like a 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:09.480 bookkeeper and an interpreter, and he demonstrated his bravery, according 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:14.640 to Michael Zukoff, author of Ponzi's Scheme, just like Sophie's Choice. 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:15.040 But not. 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.280 One day, there was a terrible accident at the hospital. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.600 A nurse was badly burned when a gas stove burst. 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.760 Oo Ponzi was having a drink with the doctor who 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.760 told him the nurse wasn't doing well, that gangreen was 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.840 setting in and she needed a skin graft. The problem 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.520 was that doctor couldn't find anyone who wanted to give 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.440 forty to fifty square inches of skin to a stranger. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:44.240 Ponzi volunteered. Really huh, Later goes quote, Ponzi was on 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.520 an operating table that evening doctors cut off seventy two 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.000 square inches of skin from his thighs. Later he gave 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.040 another fifty inches from his back. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.680 Dude, that's like for the seventy two inches, I'd be 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.280 like three five by five squares. 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:03.240 Girl, I got lightheaded, just rea the notion of But yeah, 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.720 so he was a brave thing to do. After that, 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.080 he worked as a librarian. But he's all bandaged up. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.320 I suppose at the medical college in Mobile, Alabama, do we. 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.560 Have any understanding of why he decided to give his 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.119 skin to this unknown nurse? Why not? Why not? 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:18.880 What does he care? 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.280 I'm not not sliding criticizing. 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.800 I have no idea. Character, I have no idea. But 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.840 I think he went to the medical college and Mobile 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.040 to get free healthcare. So then he moves on, he wrote, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.359 quote from Mobile, I went to New Orleans just in 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:37.040 time to witness the terrible hurricane of September nineteen fifteen. 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.040 Witness is no word. I was right in the midst 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:45.440 of it. Everything was flying, but the birds, store signs, shingles, tiles, 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:50.560 tree limbs, galvanized iron roofs in Esplanade Avenue. The trees 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.679 were bending like blades of grass. I never saw the 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.280 like of it before or since. It remains the worst 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.960 storm in the history of the city until Huey Long 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:06.359 struck New Orleans. It was a little saucy. So he 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:11.000 later moved to Wichita Falls, Texas to work as a 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.720 quote foreign salesman for a motor truck company Italian. I 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.480 guess nineteen seventeen, he's back in Boston, so he's done 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.680 his little whirlwind tour. He comes back to Boston. There 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.040 he worked as what he called, quote a foreign correspondent 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:30.160 for an export company Fishy. And it was in Boston 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.119 that he met this woman Rose, and he would go 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:38.359 on to make her his wife. February nineteen eighteen. Her 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.040 dad owned a grocery store he plans. He got a 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.520 job as a clerk there, working on the books. He 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.680 was not good at it, and he made a mess 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.520 of everything. I'm sure his father in law loved that. 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:49.239 I loved it. 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.639 Yeah, here's this guy with like no skin on his 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.040 leg or back, messing up the book. Married to your daughter, 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.880 dear daughter, run business exactly. He's been, he's done, time, 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.320 he's done. He's for human trafficking. Okay, so he's on 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.600 the outs. He had to think of new money making endeavors, 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:08.879 like one where he could be his own boss. So 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.920 he came up with an idea to start an international 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.439 trade journal, and the revenue would come from all the 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.240 ads that he was going to sell. So he took 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:22.040 his idea to handover trust company, hoping that they'd give 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.360 him a loan a two thousand dollars to help make 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.000 his dream of reality big. Nope, they did not believe 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.679 in his dreams, Eric dream Kellers. So Bonzi went back 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:31.760 to his little office and he was determined to come 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.360 up with the winning plan, the move that would make 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.120 him a swell a fat cat. And then one day, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.639 August nineteen nineteen, the move presented itself. While he was 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.479 opening his mail. Let's stop for some ads and just 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.600 like Carlo now Charles Ponzi as he would have loved 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.320 because ads. Right when we come back, I'll tell you 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:51.960 about his audacious plan. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.760 He's Aaron, how are you doing pretty well? It's some 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.879 great as really great ass. Yeah you like Elizabeth? 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.200 Yeah, now watch this drive? 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:20.560 All right? 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.440 So August nineteen nineteen. 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:24.119 I remember it. 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.639 Well, that's wasn't it a great? It was? It was 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:27.120 so good. 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.360 I was I was looking forward to the upcoming World Series. 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.800 I was rooting hard from my Chicago White Sox. I'm like, 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:34.760 this team looks like a winner. I was in prison, 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.480 you weren't, Angola, right, Yeah. 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.240 Yeah, it's terrible. I don't want to talk about it. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.280 Still, the ankle from the chain gangs. 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.159 Terrible, but it is great. I learned a lot. I 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.000 learned a lot about the world, and I learned a 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:46.560 lot about me. 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.800 Well said, well said Charles Ponzi. 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:55.040 Carlo Chucky Ponds. Yeah, Carlo, he remember he's sitting at 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.639 his desk. Yeah, he opens the mail in his little 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.359 business office, and he's desperate to cook up a healthy 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.640 revenue stream. Remember he tried to launch a trade journal, 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.720 even put out like early messaging about it, like he 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.160 didn't get the loan, but he, you know, started trying 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:16.080 to work on it. But someone in Spain didn't know 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.360 that the whole thing had fallen flat and that he'd 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:22.119 kind of given up. The letter that he opened was 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.440 from a businessman in Spain who wanted to know more 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:26.000 about his. 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:28.240 Journal International Trade. 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.680 Yeah, like news of the demise hadn't made it over 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:36.520 there yet, and the guy was really polite, so he this. 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:40.120 This Spaniard sent the equivalent of a self address stamped 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:44.560 envelope with his request. H only this was an international 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.879 postal reply coupon. So here's how PONSI tells it. 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:49.400 Quote. 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.639 Sorting my correspondence, I noticed a letter from Spain. It 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.560 had an international reply coupon pinned to the corner. The 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.919 letter merely asked for a copy of the Trader's Guide, 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.080 which was his journal that didn't take off, and the 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:08.480 coupon had been enclosed in prepayment of postage. I'd seen 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.480 and used coupons before I knew what they were. It 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.359 had been issued by a Spanish post office, but corresponded 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.840 in every detail with the coupons issued by other countries. 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.720 At the top, the value appeared in Spanish and read 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:27.439 thirty centavos. The main legend appears on the face and 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.480 the reverse of the coupon in several languages. It said 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.719 this coupon may be exchanged at any post office of 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:39.720 any country in the Universal Postal Union for a postal 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:44.720 stage of the value of twenty five centimes or its equivalent, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:50.480 So in essence, it's prepaid postage or a voucher for 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:52.560 it in whichever the country the. 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.960 Person very very cheap travelers check that you can cash 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:57.440 at any post office. 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:03.400 Well, so inspiration struck Carlos Ponzi. This is it's arbitrage, right, 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.440 You're using price differences and conversions to make a profit. Okay, 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:10.440 because it's nineteen nineteen, so World War One is over. 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:15.240 People have made it through the flu. It was tough 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:17.600 in the US, but it was nothing compared to the 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:21.600 devastation in Europe. The economy is there tanking, and so 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:23.800 that meant that a lot of the currencies over there 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:28.040 were seriously devalued. So these coupons, though they didn't hewe 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.720 to the exchange rates and adjust for inflation. So buying 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.159 them in Europe was for someone in the US getting 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:38.360 them at a steep discount. So that thirty Centavos stamp 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.480 was worth five cents in the USA, and that was 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:46.160 a set rate fixed by an international treaty. So basically 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:48.720 you're looking at a ten percent profit if you buy 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:52.040 in Spain and redeem in the US. Makes sense, Yeah, 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:55.720 thirty five cents at a time, according you could buy 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.639 for five cents exactly according to Smithsonian magazine, which we 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:04.400 love quote, purchasing coupons in countries with weaker economies could 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:08.920 increase that margin substantially. He reasoned, it should be possible, 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:12.600 then to make a financial killing by buying huge quantities 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.080 of these coupons in certain overseas countries and redeeming them 0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:17.879 in countries with stronger currencies. 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.320 So he was pulling like a George Soros versus the 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:22.800 Bank of London currency swamps. 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.879 So totally totally and it's like it's shady, but it's. 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:27.840 Not illegal, yea of England. 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:31.800 But sow now for the details. How do you get 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:32.879 the coupons in bulk? 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:35.160 How, Elizabeth, how do you get the coupons in bulk? 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:37.240 That's a good question. How do you redeem them here 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:38.080 for cash? 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:40.840 And how do you red see them for cash here? 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:43.520 Zaron, you're thinking of all the good questions. How do 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:46.520 you ship what could be a very heavy load of 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.000 these things from Europe to the US without eating up 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:49.720 all the profits? 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:51.359 And these could be a very heavy load. How do 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.040 I ship them from Europe to here without eating up 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:54.760 all my profits? 0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:56.080 That's a really good question. 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:57.639 These are concerns I don't know. 0:24:57.720 --> 0:24:59.840 I don't think of these. You're a really good investor. 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:02.120 I have a business mind, you know what. 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:05.520 Thought Charles Ponzi. Yeah, we'll figure all that out later. 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:09.399 Yeah, details he needed. 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.240 He's like, I'm big picture. I'm going to get that 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:12.280 big picture rolling. 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:13.520 So I want to talk about profits. 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:18.000 Step one, create a company, and thus Charles Ponzi's endeavor, 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:20.280 Securities Exchange Company. 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:22.439 Was born. Security Exchange Company. 0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:27.080 Run it a little bit close to the bone there, Zarin, Yeah, 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:31.680 close your eyes. Oh yeah, I want you to picture it. 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:40.399 You own a pizzeria in Boston's North End, and today 0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:44.399 business is a little slow. That's unusual. Your place is 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:47.680 generally pretty crowded, but today is the day after the 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:51.119 last day of the four day Fisherman's Feast of the 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:55.560 Madonna Delsa Corso our Lady of help. People are tired 0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:58.680 and they've used up their spending money. So you're just 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:02.040 in your shop ready to mix up some dough for tomorrow. 0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:06.000 You always let it sit overnight. That's your secret. Outside 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:08.720 in the streets, some kids are playing stickball. It's a 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.359 lazy summer afternoon. There are laughter and shouts. Bring you 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:17.080 great joy. It's life affirming, creating food for people while 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:21.879 children frolic outside. You're healthy and strong and thankful for it. 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.240 You've lived through a lot. You came to this country 0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:29.080 with nothing. You grew this business with hard work and determination. 0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.680 You lost a sun to the blood soaked, muddy trenches 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:36.080 of World War One. You were honored recently by the 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:38.960 Neighborhood Society for all you do for the less fortunate 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:42.600 among you. You've known dark times, but you have faith. 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:47.960 It's love and generosity and empathy and integrity that gets 0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:50.440 us through. Those are the things that went out in 0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:53.200 the end, you think, even when it doesn't feel like it. 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:56.480 The door to your shop creaks open. You turn and 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.120 see a man in the doorway. He's a clean cut 0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:01.480 guy and a light suit and a straw boater hat 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:04.040 on his head. He wears a flour in his lapel. 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:07.800 He gives you a sly conspiratorial grin as he walks 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:12.960 in signora. He says you nod. He approaches your counter 0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:15.640 and you see he's carrying a notebook in some papers. 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:21.240 You can't stand these traveling salesmen. Yes, you say. He 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:24.159 tells you that he has an investment opportunity for you, 0:27:25.000 --> 0:27:28.680 something that will generate huge profits. You roll your eyes 0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:32.159 and then purse your lips. Kavoy. You make the pinched 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:35.440 finger hand jester to go with your comment. No, no, 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:39.439 the man says, hear me out, he begs. He introduces himself, 0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:42.960 Charles Ponzi. He tells you that he has a business 0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:47.080 that buys and sells stamp coupons from Europe. That each 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:50.680 converted stamp makes a profit, a big one. He does 0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:55.520 this at volume, which allows for and necessitates investors, but 0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:58.240 he also brings in the big bux. He wants to 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:00.800 give you an opportunity to get in on it, because 0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:03.040 you're such a pillar of the community. He's coming to 0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:06.840 you first. You stare at him. You ask him how 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:09.960 exactly is he going to sell these stamp coupon things 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:13.000 for cash? Ponzi says he can't tell you that part. 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:18.480 That's the proprietory sauce, he says. You quickly and loosely 0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:20.600 put the back of your cupped hand under your chin, 0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:23.440 and then sharply flick it out and forward the sign 0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:29.240 for f out of here, ah, Signora, Ponsi says, wait 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:32.639 until you hear the numbers. He tells you fifty percent 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:37.119 interest in ninety days. Ponsi smiles at you. That's a 0:28:37.240 --> 0:28:42.480 spice of meat the ball, he says. What you respond? Nothing, 0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:45.080 He says, just a line I'm trying out. He hands 0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:47.600 you a slip of paper with investment categories on it. 0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:51.240 You scan the list and you sigh. You could go 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:54.080 in at the lowest level you can afford that and 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:58.520 a fifty percent return. Mom Mama, you tell him to 0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:00.960 count you in, and then you reach under your apron 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:03.920 and into your pocket for some cash. Ponzi opens his 0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:08.240 notebook and enters you into his ledger. You won't regret this, Signora, 0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:11.880 he says. The kids outside are erupped into cheers, their 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.640 ball soaring to the air and the stick back clattering 0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:18.800 on the pavement. You certainly hope this Ponzi fellow is right. 0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:25.680 So Zarin and and apologies to the beautiful Italian American community. 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:27.480 Oh yes, you apologize. 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:29.400 I do those things with love. 0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.840 Oh you talking about what the accent? Okay, I didn't 0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:34.720 know which part was the offensive part. 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:39.640 I do it with love. I don't know any better. 0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:41.600 I'm not you know whatever. 0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:46.000 You gotta be like me. Filled with so many ethnicities 0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.880 you can't be accused of insulting anyone. But I'm like, 0:29:49.000 --> 0:29:52.640 I cover like four continents. Bro, So who you coming at? 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:58.000 Admiration because I'm mad that I'm not Italian American? 0:29:58.080 --> 0:29:59.360 Typical French answer. 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:02.120 I got. 0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:05.160 French so I can do these things. 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:11.320 So, Sarah, by nineteen twenty, thousands of people had put 0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:16.560 money into Ponzi's you know scheme, So they wanted that fast, 0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:19.480 easy money, and those who got in on the ground 0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:22.280 floor like you did, actually got paid out. 0:30:22.640 --> 0:30:23.120 Look at us. 0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:25.560 Yeah, but not because the stamps were turning a profit 0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.480 because like what stamps? You were paid out with the 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:31.680 cash from the next round of dupes. Ah. So the 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:33.240 first round of investors. 0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:36.240 He wasn't trading any stamps in. He's like, why busy 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:39.240 up myself with all that? I just wanted to cast 0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:40.320 tail in hand. 0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:45.240 That's the proprietary sauce right there. That was his exact word. 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:49.600 Really, yeah, sauce because no. 0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:54.280 So okay, So the first round of investors they're loving it, 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:56.160 like this is fantastic. 0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:57.240 Because now they have the second round money. 0:30:57.440 --> 0:30:59.880 Yeah, and so they start spreading their message of six 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:03.240 success at the hands of the financial wizard of School Street, 0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:07.840 and eventually around forty thousand people got in on it. 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:11.760 What forty thousand, that's a lot of zero, that's a 0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.200 lot of zeros. They came from all walks of life. 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:16.880 So there were a lot of working class Italian. 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:17.800 Immigrants I figured primarily. 0:31:17.960 --> 0:31:22.440 Yeah, there were politicians, oh, priests whoa yeah. 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:25.320 Like taking like the donations and giving them or like 0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:27.320 their own little how do they have money? 0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:31.400 Walking around money? And then according to NPR, two thirds 0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:34.200 of the Boston Police Department were investors. 0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:36.520 Dark laughter. 0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:43.520 Even his own wife kicked in. Wife, she and eight 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:47.520 of her relatives were in deep for more than sixteen 0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:50.360 thousand dollars. That's like two hundred and sixty six thousand 0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:51.040 dollars today. 0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:54.840 He did not like that family, like her dad heard friends. 0:31:55.440 --> 0:31:59.240 So a lot of these people quote reinvested when they're 0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:02.640 payout time came because they wanted to just keep it growing. 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:05.680 And that was a relief for Ponzi because then he 0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:08.840 didn't have to hand over any cash yeah back, yeah, 0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:11.200 So he went around telling people that he had this 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:16.280 crazy network of employees, agents all over Europe, buying up 0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:19.640 the stamp coupons, shipping him over to his offices in 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:23.880 Boston and Maine and New Jersey, and then once they 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:27.640 were here, Ponzi would work his magic, you know, cash 0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:31.120 him in, get the big bucks. And this is I'm 0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:35.400 sure you know, not true. I do know. There were 0:32:35.480 --> 0:32:38.920 no agents, no postal coupons. I mean there were some. 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:41.719 The truth is that he had like sixty one dollars 0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:46.200 worth of him in his life. He was yeah, exactly. 0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:52.880 In less than a year, Ponzi had raised fifteen million dollars. Damn, 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:55.800 it's like two hundred and fifty million dollars today, in 0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:56.600 like eight months. 0:32:58.920 --> 0:32:59.400 Eight months. 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:02.520 He took the money in Wow, and he made sure 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:05.480 to spend it so like he bought himself a twelve 0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:09.920 room mansion. He had a team of servants, a wardrobe 0:33:10.040 --> 0:33:13.120 of expensive bespoke suits. He walked around with a gold 0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:18.640 handled cane. Okay, his wife dripping in diamonds that like 0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:21.760 she paid for it exactly. And the cars he had 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:24.080 multiple cars, including a locomobile. 0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:26.360 Really, yeah you know what that is. 0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:28.040 I wasn't sure. 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:31.600 I can't make a look. I just love the name locomobile. 0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:33.000 It was crazy car. 0:33:34.040 --> 0:33:37.880 It was famous for how finely tuned and expertly engineered 0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:41.560 it was. It was like a pure luxury and horse power. 0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:43.560 It was like the luxury Subaru back then. 0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:47.720 You're a funny guy. It was well engineered car, well 0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:51.239 engineered at the time. It was the most expensive car 0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:51.840 in the country. 0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:55.080 Oh wow, more than like a Dusenburger and the other ponds. 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:58.560 He paid thirteen thousand, six hundred dollars cash for his 0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:02.240 And that's like paying today two hundred and twenty five 0:34:02.280 --> 0:34:03.120 thousand dollars for here. 0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:04.280 Okay, that's an expense. 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:08.720 It's like, you know whatever, one of those super yeah. 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:12.360 Oh, a superclm like that. He's also like touring. 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:14.560 Yeah, it was more of a touring. So let's save 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:18.040 Bentley or Aybach or one of those. He went into 0:34:18.239 --> 0:34:22.520 real estate investment. He picked up rental and commercial property 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:26.600 in Boston. Smart he bought stock in banks. In fact, 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:31.480 according to Smithsonian Magazine quote, he arranged a takeover of 0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:35.080 Hanover Trust, the same bank that had turned down his 0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:39.160 loan application a previous year. It's like boom year later, 0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:44.160 he's all big mistake, big huge, So he's pulling in 0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:48.760 millions of dollars a month from his investors. He's drunk 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:52.120 on it all. It was the manifestation of the dream 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:54.400 that he had when he first a lit from the 0:34:54.480 --> 0:34:57.520 Atlantic and stepped on the shores of you know, the 0:34:57.640 --> 0:35:02.640 storied streets of Boston. Yes, and with that money came attention, 0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:08.160 and attention is not the best for a con man. 0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:12.799 Let's take a break, and upon our return, I'm going 0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:16.720 to tell you about how spoiler alert, it all falls apart. 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:45.160 Zaren Elizabeth, Oh, Zaren. We got Charles Ponzi, Carlos big 0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:49.480 dog in it around rolling in dough, living the high life. 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:52.960 But that much money so quickly draws attention. 0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:55.439 Yes, one does wonder how how? 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:59.280 And before you know it, regulators are coming looking around 0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:06.319 and things didn't make sense. Basic question one. Let's see 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:06.840 the stamps. 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:10.920 We contacted the Europeans. They're not selling any extra stamps. 0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:14.919 Someone from the state came to him and this guy 0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:18.360 was in charge of busting loan sharks. Oh like, excessive 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:21.400 interest in all that, the Ponzi's interest scheme worked the 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:24.360 other way, and so he had to explain to the dude, no, 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:27.240 I'm the one paying out I'm not a loan shark. 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.879 And the guy's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. Okay, 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:31.880 So sorry to bother you. 0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:33.040 And so. 0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:37.759 He's like, oh, but could I get in on that? 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.320 This is all about stamps? So what did the Post. 0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:45.080 Office have to say about my curiosity? 0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:50.279 Right? According to Smithsonian, the Post Office quote insisted it 0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:54.440 was impossible for anyone to do what Ponzi claimed to 0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:58.280 be doing. Postal authorities today say the same thing, although 0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:02.640 International Postal replied coupons are available at post offices where 0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:06.759 there is demand for them, regulations make speculation in them impossible. 0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:10.879 It seems like that it's not impossible, more like improbably 0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:12.520 you know what I mean. Seems like if you did 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:14.759 it on the you did it on the sly, if 0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:17.440 there's any discrepancy between what they're worth over hear and 0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:19.600 what they're worth over there right right now, you buy 0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:21.399 enough of them all of a sudden you're like, yeah, 0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:22.239 that's how you make. 0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:26.640 Well, you'll see this. Yeah. So they begin an investigation, 0:37:26.840 --> 0:37:28.000 but it doesn't go anywhere. 0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:29.440 It seems like they should be able to track it 0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:32.520 really easily at both ends, like are you buying extra stamps? 0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:33.839 Are you selling extra stamp. 0:37:33.920 --> 0:37:37.839 Their investigation didn't go anywhere because there were no stamp coupons. 0:37:38.120 --> 0:37:38.800 Yeah, there we go. 0:37:39.160 --> 0:37:41.920 The post office they were more interested in, like, how 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:45.279 are you cashing these supposed stamps, not whether or not 0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:49.400 they existed and they should be getting them right. But 0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:51.920 even so they're saying, like, you're supposed to be just 0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:55.480 getting a US stamp. You're not supposed to be getting cash. 0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:58.400 Oh I thought you could trade them in for cash. 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:00.799 No, you just like, Oh, I've got this thing, now 0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:02.400 I can put a US stamp on it. 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:03.840 Oh that was my mistake. 0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:05.720 How do you get the car? Are you then selling 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:07.160 the stamps? But how does that work? 0:38:07.239 --> 0:38:08.600 Yeah? Then that it would be impossible. 0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:11.560 The post Office couldn't figure out how does this work? 0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:12.920 As you have somebody wants to buy a lot of 0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:14.400 stamps from But you know that. 0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:16.880 Was it wasn't a problem because Ponzi didn't know how 0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:17.520 it worked either. 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:19.839 Yeah, he's like, what's That's why he didn't go through 0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:20.080 with the. 0:38:20.080 --> 0:38:24.960 Whole big skin. Then Ponzi got sued, and then not 0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:28.520 by an investor, by someone who actually loaned him money 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:31.360 in the beginning and now wanted a piece of the company. 0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:36.719 So Ponzi. He's like, look, I paid that loan back 0:38:36.880 --> 0:38:40.440 a long time ago. Get off my back. You cannot 0:38:40.520 --> 0:38:44.239 have any part of this. As litigation moved forward, the 0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:47.200 court decided to go ahead and freeze his assets. Oh no, 0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:49.759 well they got everything sortied because they're like, this is 0:38:49.960 --> 0:38:50.840 really confusing. 0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:53.440 That's bad for a scheme named after Charles Ponzi. 0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:58.440 So, according to NPR quote, and this causes a mini panic. 0:38:59.120 --> 0:39:02.520 Thousands of ter showed up at Ponzi's office. It's like 0:39:02.600 --> 0:39:05.240 a scene out of a bank run. They're all demanding 0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:06.040 their money back. 0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:08.319 At least he has a legitimate reason. He's like, they 0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:09.240 froze my assets. 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:11.960 That's how he could do it. Is it's very wobbly. 0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:16.600 So now though we're July nineteen twenty, the Boston Post 0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:19.520 newspaper wants in on this because they see all this 0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:22.920 these investigations and people are upset, so they start their 0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:26.239 own investigation. They want the scoop, and they brought in 0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:31.720 this financial journalist named Clarence Barron no relation to John Baron, 0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:38.480 Thank you. Baron ran the numbers and assuming one could 0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:41.880 make a little money by cashing in these coupons, the 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:45.880 volume necessary to create the kind of wealth Ponzi was 0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:47.279 enjoying was just too much. 0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:48.560 She'd be like a billion stamp. 0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:52.759 Yeah, barn calculated that Ponzi would have had to sell 0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:57.440 one hundred and sixty million coupons in order to have 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:00.800 what he had. But here's the thing. In the whole 0:40:00.880 --> 0:40:04.320 wide world, there were only twenty seven thousand coupons. 0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:07.400 That's my question. This is something that's well documented, like 0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:09.040 these stamp sales. 0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:11.640 As the as the kids say, the math ain't mathew. 0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:16.360 So Baron he also caught something else. He noticed that 0:40:16.560 --> 0:40:21.120 Ponsi wasn't invested in his own scheme, Like his investments 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:24.200 were all in stocks and bonds and the state. Yeah, 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:27.600 regular stuff, and he's getting maybe a five percent return. 0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:32.120 But if he's running fifty percent return on investment on 0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:35.200 the stamps, and why isn't he loading his money into it? 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:35.839 Good point. 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:38.839 So then Baron he's like, hey, post office, quick question, 0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:44.600 tell me more about these stamps and how often they're used. 0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:47.160 And the post office is like, you know, they don't 0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:50.120 get used very often at all. These are not common. 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:50.879 Yeah, we don't. 0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:54.560 We need never see them. And so he's like perfect, 0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:58.719 and then send the story hits the front page, July 0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:01.440 twenty six, nineteen twenty and it was the first in 0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:02.680 a series of pieces. 0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:06.680 Oh my god. 0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:09.800 Right, uh and this this would have been curtains for 0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:12.360 any other con but not Chuck Ponzi. 0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:13.279 No. 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:16.920 See, Ponzi was a true con man, a confidence man. 0:41:17.440 --> 0:41:21.480 He was magnetic, he was charismatic. He was a character 0:41:21.719 --> 0:41:23.960 like no other, and he had an effect on people. 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:28.760 So as a result, his supporters and investors just didn't 0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:31.279 believe the stories in the paper. Fake news. 0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:33.920 I've heard about how this plays out. 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:40.920 They could explain everything away, however preposterous. Was the guy's 0:41:41.000 --> 0:41:44.040 making him money? He must be legit. He's a good businessman. 0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:47.319 Maybe they hadn't seen the money yet, but others were 0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:47.920 raking it in. 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:49.200 Maybe they're just jealous. 0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:51.080 My time is going to come. I'm going to be 0:41:51.160 --> 0:41:54.040 a thousand ear pretty soon. I'll be a fat cat, 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:58.239 a fat kit, according to a piece on Ponzi by 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:01.960 CNN Quote. In fact, the morning that the Post ran 0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:06.360 Baron's report, investors lined up around the block outside his 0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:10.200 office in an attempt to give him more money. It 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:13.680 was advertising, even after they'd been told they'd been scammed. 0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:17.480 Ponsi later boasted that he'd taken in a million dollars 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:19.160 in new investments the day the. 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:23.239 Report ran, just keep someone there to accept the money 0:42:23.280 --> 0:42:24.640 and get on a boat and go and go. 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.400 Ponzi hated the press. They drove him into a rage, 0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:31.719 like you're a terrible person and a terrible reporter, the 0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:35.000 most obnoxious reporter in the whole place. You're a stupid person, 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.440 one of the worst reporters. A horror show. Get yourself 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:40.680 a new job. I doubled the size of it, you 0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:44.399 dumb person. Quiet piggy. That that sort of thing. 0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:46.640 Those are the kind of things I can barely imagine this. 0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:48.759 Really someone talked to the press like that. 0:42:48.840 --> 0:42:49.680 Could you imagine? 0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:50.279 That's wild? 0:42:50.320 --> 0:42:53.840 Would you imagine that? Ponsi's publicity guy was a former 0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:57.360 journalist named William McMasters, and he had an idea. 0:42:57.480 --> 0:42:59.439 Big Bill McMaster, Billy Mix. 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:05.560 Ponzie, according to McMasters, could just tell the US Attorney's 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:07.560 office that they can take a look at his books 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:11.160 and they could bring in an auditor and everything, and 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.919 that he McMasters is like, look, tell them that you'll 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:18.520 halt investments on July twenty sixth, and that you won't 0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:22.080 take anything in until the Audit's done, and for some 0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:25.360 reason Ponzie went for it. He's like, you know, I 0:43:25.400 --> 0:43:30.320 think you're right. It's a really good August second, the 0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:35.480 Post blew everything up. They ran a copyrighted first person 0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:42.120 account that stated Ponzi was quote hopelessly insolvent. The person 0:43:42.160 --> 0:43:43.560 who gave the account. 0:43:43.960 --> 0:43:48.720 William McMaster, the inside man, he wrote. 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:52.400 He wrote, quote, he is over two million dollars in 0:43:52.560 --> 0:43:55.440 debt even if he tried to meet his notes without 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:58.640 paying any interest. If the interest is included in his 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:02.759 outstanding notes, then he is at least four million, five 0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:07.200 hundred thousand in debt. So now people are starting to 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.480 believe the news reports. They start running up on Ponzi's 0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:13.960 office on School Street. Ponsi stuck with the fake news 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:16.360 line of reasoning, and then he took it to the 0:44:16.480 --> 0:44:20.160 next logical level. How soon, Yep, I'm gonna sue everybody. 0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:24.640 I'm suing the paper. I'm suing McMasters to me, sue 0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:27.799 you exactly, According to the Boston. 0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:28.719 I just suit it. 0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:33.719 Boom everyone sooned, according to the Boston Globe quote. On 0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:37.800 August tenth, Ponzi gave a luncheon address at Boston's Hotel 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:41.520 Bellevue for the Kiwanis Club, which had invited him for 0:44:41.640 --> 0:44:46.360 a quote battle Royale with a mind reader named Joseph Dunnagher. 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:50.600 What the idea is that Dunnagher would quote throw the 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:54.200 x ray of clairvoyance on the subtle brain of the 0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:59.840 little Italian and reveal what he found to the audience bitches, 0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:00.920 Which is weird. 0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:06.520 This is so weird. The scientific races spiritual. It's like 0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:08.000 we've merged everything. 0:45:07.640 --> 0:45:09.759 And it's kind of weird to have a mentalist at 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:13.040 like a dining event where everything is crumbling around him. 0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:19.400 Who does that? Well, okay, so here's the thing the 0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:22.239 crowd only wanted to hear from Ponzi. Of course, the 0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:24.399 mind reader never got to do his thing. 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:27.040 Really, sitting drinking water. 0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:35.080 Ponzi took audience questions for hours. According to Smithsonian quote, 0:45:35.480 --> 0:45:39.719 Ponzi audaciously implied that he dealt directly with foreign governments 0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:43.600 in order to purchase the vast quantities of coupons needed 0:45:43.640 --> 0:45:47.000 to support his enterprise. Because the governments from whom he 0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:52.000 bought coupons profited themselves, they naturally would not care to 0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:56.440 reveal the exact nature of their business, explained, we're all getting. 0:45:57.800 --> 0:45:58.000 Yeah. 0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:01.560 So then on August eleventh, the Boston Post let loose 0:46:01.719 --> 0:46:04.920 more of the dirt that they dug up. They let 0:46:05.000 --> 0:46:07.840 it be known that Ponzi had served two terms in 0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:10.320 prison between nineteen oh eight nineteen twelve. 0:46:10.400 --> 0:46:12.440 He was running Italians out of Canada. 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:18.160 Five head of Italians out of Canada. This was another 0:46:18.239 --> 0:46:20.200 blow to the public image, and this is when people 0:46:20.239 --> 0:46:23.520 started to turn on him. The audit wrapped up on 0:46:23.680 --> 0:46:28.800 August twelfth, nineteen twenty, and he was now officially announced 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:33.760 as seven million dollars in the red. Yeah. Regulators charged 0:46:33.840 --> 0:46:37.200 into his office, searched the place. You will not be 0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:40.520 surprised to hear that they didn't have stamp coupons in there. 0:46:40.719 --> 0:46:43.440 No, not even the sixty one dollars worth I think 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:43.960 he spent that. 0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:48.719 Charles Ponzi was arrested August twelfth, nineteen twenty, charged with 0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:52.440 eighty six counts of mail fraud. Oh we say this 0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:55.120 a lot. You mess with interstate or the mail, you're 0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:55.960 gonna get burned. 0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:58.840 Oh yeah, federal. In twenty years in charge, sometimes it 0:46:58.960 --> 0:46:59.920 gets ridiculous. 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.319 Ponzie used the mail to let his investors know how 0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:08.040 their investments were doing. So boom mail fraud. Six banks 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:12.279 crashed because of his false race banks, including the one that. 0:47:12.360 --> 0:47:17.440 He took over Boston, please like exactly. 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.799 Investors got back thirty cents on the dollar. Ooh yeah. 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:25.840 There were some delusional ones who didn't turn their notes 0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:28.480 into the government. They thought that Ponzie was somehow going 0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:31.320 to pay them out, that he'd pull through this and 0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:34.680 come out on top. Ponzi did not come out on top, 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:39.200 unless you count getting your name on everything same recognition. 0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:41.160 He did it for exposure exactly. 0:47:41.760 --> 0:47:44.800 He was found guilty, sentenced to five years in federal 0:47:44.840 --> 0:47:48.879 prison years five years, that's it. He served about three 0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:52.680 and a half before being released. But then he was 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:55.720 facing additional state charges in Massachusetts. 0:47:55.840 --> 0:47:56.520 I was wondering. 0:47:56.840 --> 0:47:59.600 Yeah. So while he was out on bail trying to 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:03.320 appe heal the Massachusetts stuff, he went down to Florida 0:48:03.360 --> 0:48:07.520 and pulled some scams. He started calling himself Sharpond and 0:48:08.239 --> 0:48:10.000 he was selling swamp lands. 0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:13.959 Oh that at the time in Florida. That was the move. 0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:17.880 As Smithsonian tells it. Quote, he was quickly arrested and 0:48:18.239 --> 0:48:20.960 convicted of fraud. He jumped bail when he learned that 0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:25.000 the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts had upheld his conviction 0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:25.760 in that state. 0:48:26.400 --> 0:48:28.319 See, I'm telling you, as soon as they people started 0:48:28.360 --> 0:48:32.480 sniffing around before he got bad, Bill McMasters, he should 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:34.879 have gone to Canada and then cut loose, go west 0:48:34.920 --> 0:48:37.280 of the Yukon, go over to Asia on a slow 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:38.840 boat to China exactly. 0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:43.920 So, now that he had both Florida and Massachusetts after him, 0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:47.799 he ran to Texas and he got a job there 0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:51.120 working on an Italian freighter, hoping to make it to 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:54.600 the Monderlands. Okay, but the ship stopped in New Orleans 0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:57.319 and he got picked up by the long arm a law. Yeah, 0:48:58.120 --> 0:49:01.440 they took him to Massachusetts. He's started his prison sentence there. 0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:04.680 He got out in nineteen thirty four and was immediately 0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:08.120 deported to Italy. They're out of here. And it turns out, 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:10.840 I mean, he had never bothered with American citizenship. 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:11.800 He never got the papers. 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:13.800 Yeah, why do all the paperwork? That's stupid. 0:49:13.920 --> 0:49:15.239 And they know who he was who? 0:49:15.760 --> 0:49:19.160 Yeah, I want to let's not forget about Rose. 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:21.960 Oh right, what happened with that? And her father, who 0:49:22.040 --> 0:49:24.040 must be believed in him. 0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:26.640 He told her that he was going to get work 0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:29.200 in Italy and then she could go and join Yeah, 0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:30.120 she would send for her. 0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:31.360 You got to see beautiful Parma. 0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:34.440 Yeah. She waited two years to hear from him and 0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:37.320 then just gave up. She got a divorce. And so 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:39.680 what was Ponsi doing while Rose waited? 0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:42.080 What was he doing while Rose waited? Elizabeth? 0:49:42.520 --> 0:49:45.160 I can tell you that I can satisfy that curiosity 0:49:45.239 --> 0:49:48.239 you have. There are two accounts. One is that he 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:51.919 got a job in finance, which is rich even better 0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:59.799 as where Mussolini's government finance ministry, Yeah loved him, oh 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:00.319 oh god. 0:50:00.440 --> 0:50:00.640 Yeah. 0:50:02.440 --> 0:50:05.080 But then that account says that they found out he 0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:07.480 wasn't so good at finance, and so he made a 0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:10.120 run for it and got on a steamship headed to Brazil. 0:50:11.280 --> 0:50:15.120 Donald Dunn, author of Ponzi. That's an exclamation plant. 0:50:15.200 --> 0:50:18.680 So not Donald Duck Dunn from the Steve the Colonel 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:19.560 croppers Man. 0:50:19.800 --> 0:50:23.480 No, No, no, just records right, No, just Donald Dunn. 0:50:24.719 --> 0:50:29.200 He wrote Ponzi, The Boston Swindler. He said that Ponzi 0:50:29.320 --> 0:50:32.520 got help from a cousin of his in the Italian 0:50:32.640 --> 0:50:35.440 Air Force who was a friend of Mussolini's. 0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:36.439 That sounds more legit. 0:50:36.640 --> 0:50:40.160 Yeah, And apparently Ponzi was able to parlay that into 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:43.200 a job with an airline that had recently started up 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:46.560 running flights between Italy and Brazil, and he did that 0:50:46.800 --> 0:50:51.480 from nineteen thirty nine until December nineteen forty one, which, 0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:54.680 as you know, is when the US entered World War two. Yeah, 0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:58.120 so the Brazilian government cut off the airline because they 0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:01.800 found out the airline was moving strategic supplies from Brazil 0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:02.280 to Italy. 0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:03.960 Yeah, well, we can't have that. 0:51:04.239 --> 0:51:07.600 Pick aside. So Ponzi was stuck in Brazil. 0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:10.600 Oh, he'd flown over there and he's like damn it. 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:13.120 But he settled in. He was into it, and over 0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:16.280 the years, like he got a job teaching English and French, 0:51:16.400 --> 0:51:19.120 and then he worked as an interpreter for an Italian 0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:23.680 importing firm. He died in a charity hospital in Rio 0:51:23.760 --> 0:51:28.360 de Janeiro on January eighteenth, nineteen forty nine. Wow, he 0:51:28.440 --> 0:51:31.560 died penniless, seventy five dollars to his name, and that 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:35.839 was to pay for his burial. Huh, nothing else, Zaren, 0:51:35.880 --> 0:51:37.160 what's your ridiculous takeaway? 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:40.840 I can't believe that's the end of the line for him, Like, 0:51:41.320 --> 0:51:44.160 penniless in Brazil. I did not see that coming at all. 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:48.640 I do love how people refused to believe that he 0:51:48.800 --> 0:51:52.480 had conned them, even when they were presented with the evidence. 0:51:52.760 --> 0:51:55.800 Then how about more evidence, Okay, how about this evidence. 0:51:55.840 --> 0:51:57.479 They're like, nope, nope, and nope. 0:51:57.560 --> 0:51:59.200 It's the cult, the cult of Ponzi. 0:51:59.400 --> 0:52:01.520 I mean, I'm as somebody who's been a fan of 0:52:01.680 --> 0:52:04.680 con men and con artists since I was a wee lad. 0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:09.160 I still marvel at the suckers who believed them. I 0:52:09.320 --> 0:52:12.320 understand the con artist, I don't understand their victims. I know, 0:52:12.520 --> 0:52:14.600 which is I don't know what to say about that. Yeah, 0:52:14.680 --> 0:52:16.080 what's your ridiculous take with Elizabeth? 0:52:16.200 --> 0:52:20.120 I wonder what became of or if he ever knew 0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:23.320 the poor Spanish guy who kicked it all off with 0:52:23.480 --> 0:52:26.120 by sending the stamp and being like, oh yeah, tell 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:29.160 me more about your magazine, And he's like, whatever do 0:52:29.200 --> 0:52:29.440 you think? 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:31.920 Like I ever saw the newspaper recognize the name? I 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.719 don't know, but I've just the publisher of my trade magazine. 0:52:34.800 --> 0:52:36.719 I mean, I think that Ponzi would have figured something 0:52:36.760 --> 0:52:39.480 out one way or another. But it's interesting, Like, I 0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:43.440 wonder whatever became of him. Yeah, Dave, I'd like a 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:44.480 talkback now. 0:52:44.560 --> 0:52:46.920 I think, Oh, that sounds delicious. Here you go. 0:52:52.920 --> 0:53:04.960 Oh my god, I would hi Elizabeth and Aaron and 0:53:05.040 --> 0:53:09.400 all the gang at ridiculous crimes. This is really for Elizabeth. 0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:11.360 Sorry Saron, but I just want to let you know 0:53:11.440 --> 0:53:13.920 that my sister and I also love nine one one. 0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:17.120 We also watched Lone Star, and we also could not 0:53:17.280 --> 0:53:20.320 get through the first episode of Nashville. It was just 0:53:21.080 --> 0:53:24.839 really bad. So I completely agree with you. Thanks so much. 0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:28.160 You have a great day. Bye. Thank you. See like you, 0:53:28.400 --> 0:53:31.680 you're like me. We have tastes. We appreciate the original 0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:35.560 Mississippe and the camp of Lone Star. But yeah, o god, 0:53:35.760 --> 0:53:37.000 the Nashville one's. 0:53:36.880 --> 0:53:40.000 Terrible, uninspired. I'd say yeah, I just say terrible, yeah, 0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:42.440 because Lone Star isn't particularly good, but it's good at 0:53:42.560 --> 0:53:45.719 not being particularly good exactly it commits to its bite, 0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:48.320 couldn't even commit to the bit that it said it was. 0:53:48.560 --> 0:53:49.680 It's like, look, this is what we're gonna do, and 0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:50.759 I'm like, you're not doing that. 0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:52.959 And I gotta say nine one one is getting really 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:58.720 bad flu as you like to say, cured by Diane 0:53:58.880 --> 0:54:04.239 exercise and love of good friends. But thank you, thank 0:54:04.280 --> 0:54:06.480 you for backing me up on that. I appreciate it. 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:09.600 That's it for today. You can find us online at 0:54:09.680 --> 0:54:13.520 ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also at Ridiculous Crime at 0:54:13.560 --> 0:54:19.040 Blue Sky on Instagram. We're on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. 0:54:19.480 --> 0:54:22.840 You can email Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com and 0:54:23.600 --> 0:54:27.719 please please please leave a talkback on the iHeart app 0:54:27.800 --> 0:54:35.680 reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and 0:54:35.800 --> 0:54:39.560 Zarah Burnett, produced and edited by Dave Cousten, creator of 0:54:39.640 --> 0:54:42.000 the Cousten Scheme, where you come up with exactly the 0:54:42.120 --> 0:54:45.680 right music and sound effects for any occasion. Our ridiculous 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:50.920 assistant is confused Spanish postal worker Terry Maldonado. Fong research 0:54:51.000 --> 0:54:54.200 is by ever Trusting investor Marissa Brown and Guy who 0:54:54.320 --> 0:54:56.560 is desperate to run into Ponzi in a dark alley, 0:54:56.719 --> 0:55:00.360 Jabari Davis. The theme song is by Italian Freighters Skipper 0:55:00.440 --> 0:55:04.800 Thomas Lee and Italian Airline Stewart Travis Dutton post wardrobe 0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:08.480 is provided by Botany five hundred. Producer Dave Cousten's wardrobe 0:55:08.520 --> 0:55:11.400 is by mister Guy of Beverly Hills. Guest hair and 0:55:11.440 --> 0:55:16.080 makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are recalcitrant 0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:21.279 publicist Ben Bollen and dogged financial reporter No Brown. 0:55:25.880 --> 0:55:31.600 Gig Clime say it one more time Crime. 0:55:32.719 --> 0:55:36.080 Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts 0:55:36.200 --> 0:55:39.360 My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 0:55:39.360 --> 0:55:41.120 wherever you listen to your favorite shows.