1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: know we're ready for you. Here are just a few 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: of the people at Metro to tell you how we're 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: doing our part to keep riders safe. Were cleaning before 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: you've found Hans out of size of stations Metro, no mask, 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: no Metro needy one. We have a few extras at Metro. 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving. 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Find out more at well Matta dot com slash doing 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: our part well, if you'd like eighteen sixty one, you're 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: gonna love. It's armstrong and getting extra large because four 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: hours simply this is armstrong and getting extra large. David 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: French is an author, thinker, philosophers, seen your editor at 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: the Dispatch these days in a columnist for Time. He 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: also you probably saw his work for National Review for 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: quite a while, senior fellow at the National Review Institute. 16 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: He's in rock war are in a graduate of a 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: little uh community college law school named Harvard. It's in 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: the Boston area for have you've heard of it? And 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: David is a constitutional lawyer as well. David French, it's 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: always a pleasure. How are you. I'm doing well, Thanks 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: so much for having me. What was it like being 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Harvard as a guy of your political bent? Was it? 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: Was it difficult at that time or not? Yeah? You know, 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: it's funny we have this sort of recency bias that 25 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: says the political correctness right now is the worst that's 26 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: ever been. I can tell you in early nineties and 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: Harvard there were things that conservatives say say really don't 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: face now. When I was there, there was a that 29 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: was sort of the heyday of the booing and hissing 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: and shouting down in class that was u There was 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: an awful lot of like just quite direct harassment of conservatives, 32 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: and that were not many of us there at all. Um, 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: the Federalist Society was tiny compared to what it is now. 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: The law school Christian dellowship was really small. But in 35 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: spite of it all, honestly I had it was a 36 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: great time of life. I'm really help me solidify what 37 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: my beliefs really were and and made friends that have 38 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: lasted a lifetime. I think sometimes the best thing for 39 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: a person can be to be put in an environment 40 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: where your beliefs aren't popular, because it really helps you 41 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: focus on why you believe what you believe. Yeah, not 42 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: long ago on the radio show, we played a tape 43 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: of Van Jones addressing a college audience and he was saying, 44 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: the last thing in the world he wanted folks of 45 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: his mind to be was safe. He wanted their muscles built, 46 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: he wanted them to be tough, he wanted them to 47 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: be resilient of counter arguments and the rest of it. 48 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: And and he, like a lot of conservatives, can't stand 49 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: the whole safe space thing. So a lot of people 50 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: are agreed on that no matter which way we swing ideologically. Yeah, 51 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: that's true. I mean there are growing number of people 52 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: on the left and the right who are saying we 53 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: need a robust marketplace ideas. Now I'm not you know, 54 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: I think it was wrong that people tried to shout 55 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: shout down when I was there. I think it was 56 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the harassment was sometimes really the ring 57 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: into it was really veering into the kinds of extreme 58 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: versions of cancel culture we see now where people are 59 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: trying to get people fired from jobs. And I don't 60 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: think that aspect of my experience was at all uh positive. 61 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: But what was positive for me was to be in 62 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: a position where I was surrounded by a lot of 63 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: people I didn't agree with. And while there were some 64 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: intolerant folks there, um, there were an awful lot of 65 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: people on the left who were just fascinating to engage with. 66 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up in rural Kentucky. I went 67 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: to a small evangelical college in Nashville, and so going 68 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: up to Harvard was a very different experience. And so 69 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: that's why it was. It was good. It was very 70 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: good for me, even though there were certainly negative aspects. Yeah, 71 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: there's the reason I want to bring this up as 72 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: we get into your book. And by the way, it's 73 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: like an idiot, I did not mention. Just um, we're 74 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: big fans of the Dispatch, where you are a senior 75 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: editor and I'm actually one of the founding members. So 76 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: you can't go out of business because the only way 77 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: I can make my money's worth as if you stay 78 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: in business for decades, keep at um. But so your 79 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: book is America's secession threat and how to restore our nation. 80 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: Divided we Fall is the name of the book, Divided 81 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: we Fall? And you guys are you know you're more 82 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: anti Trump than certainly I am. And I feel like 83 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: a certain crowd is misled by thinking when Trump goes 84 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: whether you know in a couple of months, where a 85 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: couple of years, or by the end of this week 86 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: if the COVID gets improved. Um, when Trump goes that 87 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: everything is going to be fine, well, you know, things 88 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: were starting to be a little dicey. It sounds like 89 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: they're in Harvard in the nineties. They were dicey, which 90 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: led us to Trump, and they're gonna be dicey when 91 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: Trump leaves, don't you think. Yeah. One of the key 92 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: parts of my book is this is my book is 93 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: not a Trump centered book at all. Um, that's the 94 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: last thing we need on Earth. Well, it'd be kind 95 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: of crazy to release a Trump centered book on September 96 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: when he might not be president soon. So but no, 97 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: it's not a Trump centered book at all. Because the 98 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: reality is the divisions, these American divisions that we're seeing growing, 99 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: growing and growing. Um, they are not because of Trump. Now, 100 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: Trump has exacerbated some of them. That the divisiveness of 101 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: the time has made things worse. But there are huge 102 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: cultural and religious, and political and even geographic realities that 103 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: are pulling Americans apart, just enormous trends, and no one 104 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: politician is responsible for them. And if we keep thinking 105 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: that a politician is responsible for them, ironically enough, we 106 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: drive up the division and bitterness because we take these 107 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: political races and we put too much emphasis on them 108 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: for the future of our country, which makes people more bitter, 109 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: more angry, more panicked. But the reality is we have 110 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: been drifting apart in this country on basically every important 111 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: part of the spectrum for a long time. To pople 112 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: are living in like minded neighborhoods, they're watching like minded television, 113 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: there consuming like minded media, even things like the the 114 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: secularization of the US, where you know, there's been a 115 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: rise of people who don't belong to any particular faith tradition. 116 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: That doesn't happen evenly across the country. It is again 117 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: clustering in this sort of these red blue divides. And 118 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: so my my point in my book is you cannot 119 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: take all of these trends, add on top of them 120 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: a layer of real hatred and enmity that's measurable, and 121 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: then say, oh, yeah, everything's going to be fine. We 122 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: keep doing this indefinitely with no catastrophic consequences. Well, I know, you, 123 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: like us, are enough of a student of history to 124 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: understand that things may seem permanent as you're living in them, 125 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 1: but they began at a certain point, and like everything else, 126 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: they will end at a certain point. And you think 127 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: we might not be talking about an ending, but certainly 128 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: a disruption of what we know is the United States. Yes, yeah, 129 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, I was. I can't remember who said this recently, 130 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: but it was I think quite telling. But they said, 131 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: if you watched if you were from a foreign country, 132 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: or if you were in a foreign country, and you're 133 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: watching some of the news in the United States of 134 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: America right now, with the uh potential of a constitutional 135 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: crisis around the election and vote counting, with the civil 136 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: and urban unrest, with the incredible sharp increase in enmity 137 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: and division, you would not say that's a stable country, 138 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: thank you. You would not look at that and saying this, 139 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: this place has got it together, This is a stable country. Instead, 140 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: you would say, there are real issues there, and I 141 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: could see the possibility in and maybe even the probability 142 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: of it getting worse. And one of the things that 143 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: I call for in my book is number one, we 144 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: gotta wake up. We have to wake up that this 145 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: is beyond a politician, This is beyond any given set 146 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: of policies, tax rates, healthcare, um policy. It's way beyond that. 147 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: We're now in a position where every single important cultural, political, religious, 148 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: and social trend in the US is pushing us apart 149 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: rather than pulling us together. And we have to wake 150 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: up to that, and we have to figure out a 151 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: way to navigate past that. And and you know, one 152 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: is I'm you know, obvious, there's sort of this obvious 153 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: call for leaders to not exploit division but rather to 154 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: seek unity, which is a pass of extreme resistance right 155 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: now because people, you don't get a lot of clicks 156 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: for that. You're not going to get clicks on your 157 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: Twitter feed for that, No, you do not. You came. 158 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: You don't gain much power now by seeking unity as 159 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: opposed to exploiting division. But we also have to de 160 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: escalate national politics. You know. One of the things that 161 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: I point out is that this this country is increasingly 162 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: diverse on every measure, whether it's ethnic or religious, um, 163 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: you know, cultural, and yet we're increasingly centralized in our government. 164 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: And those two things I don't think are compatible. I 165 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: don't think it's compatible to have increasing centralization in the 166 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: face of increasing fragmentation and cultural fragmentation and so we 167 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: really need to de escalate national politics and return more 168 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: power two people, and you know, to have the basic 169 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: ability to govern themselves and to form the kind of 170 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: political communities that reflect their values. Well, we will go 171 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: overn ourselves our own state that we've just created out 172 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: of the top of California in the bottom of Oregon. 173 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: The part of your title it is America's the session threat. 174 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: Lay out a Texit or a Callexit, how that could 175 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: actually occur. Yeah, So there's two catchers in the books 176 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: that are they're kind of the hinge points of the book. 177 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: And this. If you read the chapters and you find 178 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: them filling, then I've done my job. As you find 179 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: them far fest, I haven't. But I have a Calaxit 180 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: scenario in a Texas scenario in the book. And essentially 181 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: what they both hinge on are similar dynamics that existed 182 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy six and then in eighteen sixty one, 183 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: and that is a powerful, geographically cohesive entity that believes 184 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: that its fundamental values are under threat, even to the 185 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: point of their lives being under threat. And so in 186 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: the calex that scenario, I have a situation where um, 187 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: there's been a series of terrible, terrible mass shootings, which 188 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: leads to a decision from California to implement their Conian 189 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: gun control restrictions. That a government constituted of a president 190 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: who did not win a popular vote and the Supreme 191 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: Court that has been that has been delegitimized by much 192 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: of the left in the country essentially says to California, 193 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: you can't do that, and triggers a series of cascading 194 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: over reactions from political figures on the right and the left. 195 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: And and one of this the really key points about 196 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: this is if you look at for example, if you 197 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: look at American history, and if you look at world 198 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: history in fact, what ends up happening is you often 199 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: have situations that are inherently unstable in the sense that 200 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: there are huge divisions, There are issues of huge you 201 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 1: know huge uh not, you know, huge divisions politically, religiously, etcetera. 202 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: And imagine like you're building a bonfire. You're laying the 203 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: wood down, You're you're stacking it very neatly, you're maybe 204 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: putting a little bit of kerosene on it, and all 205 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: that's lacking is the spark, is the fire, the flame, 206 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: And when you look around history. Often you see the 207 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: flame and supplied by blundering politicians, and in facts and 208 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: folks have described the politicians leading up to the Civil 209 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: Wars blundering. Obviously, the English politicians prior to the American 210 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: Revolution many of them were blundering. And so you have 211 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: these blundering politicians that can supply the spark, and then 212 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: because of all of this cultural and political and religious division, 213 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: that spark turns into roaring flame really fast. And so 214 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: that's what I'm worried about. I'm very worried about a 215 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: level of division that can turn into um, you know, 216 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: disruption with with sucking speed. I think it's interesting that 217 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: you chose a specific issue mass shootings and and and 218 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment and the rest of it. And it's 219 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: so intriguing and I'm looking forward to reading it. When 220 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: we discuss this sort of thing on the radio show, 221 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: it's usually more I don't know, maybe these it's unlikely 222 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: that they abolished the electoral college, but maybe we get 223 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: to a situation where the coastal populations are so dense 224 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: they essentially elect every single president. And Wyoming and Idaho 225 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: and in similar states increasingly are the subject of urban 226 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: centric government. And and finally they've had enough, and and 227 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: some governor, some breakaway governor of Idaho or whatever, says, 228 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: we're encouraging our people not to pay federal taxes and 229 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: if you want them, you're gonna have to send into marines. 230 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: And we know you're not gonna do this. My brother 231 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: in Ellis County, Kansas is not gonna be okay with 232 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: being uh, you know, dictated to by California New York. 233 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: They would never they would never go along with it. Well, 234 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, theo the Texas scenario in the book is 235 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: kind of like that. And so if you look at 236 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: the two big fears left and right. On the left, 237 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: their fear is minoritarian rule. In other words, they look 238 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: at things like the electoral college and the population trends 239 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: in the Senate, and they say, wait a minute, and 240 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: the fact that no Republican other than there's only been 241 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: one Republican win the popular votes eight and they say, 242 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: wait a minute, these this minoritarian And who was that? 243 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: David George W. Bush? You know four, what are you doing? 244 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: I just want to know who it was? W So 245 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: Dow is the last one to win a popular vote majority. 246 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: And so there's this real fear if you talk to 247 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: a lot of progressives of minoritarian government, so minority of 248 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: Americans dictate how they live. And you talk to a 249 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: lot of conservative Americans and they fear my majoritary and tyranny, 250 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: and so, you know, a disruption of these um safeguards 251 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: against majoritary and tyranny that exist in Constitution and American traditions. 252 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: So in my Texit scenario, a lot of it depends 253 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: on a government that comes into place, abolishes the filibuster, 254 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: packs the court, and then this new packed court starts 255 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: really rolling back individual liberty, which causes a governors to say, no, no, 256 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: we're not gonna, we're gonna. You know, the Supreme Court 257 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: has made its ruling, now that it enforce it well 258 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: in the rural parts of the progressive West, David, as 259 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: you know, we're already seeing this on a county by 260 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: county basis in which county commissioners or sheriffs are saying 261 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: we're not enforcing that. Yeah, you're beginning to see it's 262 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: it's And this is one of the things that actually 263 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: led me to write this book is the extent to 264 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: which you're seeing local government some gays and a kind 265 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: of uh, passive mellification, a sort of passive resistance to 266 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: what they view as governmental overreach. And um, this is 267 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: something along with it sort of aggressive federalism. So California, 268 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: for example, which is, you know, a very progressive state, 269 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: but through its government, has become extremely aggressively federalist in 270 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: its approach to the Trump administration. And and so you know, 271 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: the Trump administration and a lot of conservatives who previously 272 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: really like federalism or not so keen on it anymore. 273 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: But so what I'm saying is what we have to 274 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: do is we have to have both parties, whether you're 275 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: in power out of power, becoming more aggressively federalist to 276 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: de escalate these national politics. But but you're right, there 277 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: are a lot of jurisdictions around the United States that 278 00:15:54,720 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: are by default becoming less willing to comply with the 279 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: law if it conflicts with sort of the core values 280 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: of their community. And and that's in my view as 281 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: an argument against centralization and more of an argument that says, look, 282 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: we've got to let communities covering themselves as much as 283 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: we can, because otherwise you're going to just be magnifying 284 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: these conflicts because the differences and values between different groups 285 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: of Americans isn't shrinking right now, is growing absolutely, and 286 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: I think more than in most of our nation's history anyway. Um, 287 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: if California wanted to succeed, you'd have half the country 288 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: saying good, get the hell out, we don't want it. 289 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: And and similar with you know Texas. Um, just you know, 290 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: a different half would say good, get the hell out 291 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of rednecks. So you know, when we've got 292 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: when you've got that going on, it's you know, we're talking. 293 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: You know, I'm all over the place here, but um, 294 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: we're talking. After the debate on Wednesday, and and and 295 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: and and the way that was, and my opening thoughts were, 296 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: what do you expect out of your government? We get 297 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: the government we deserve. Look at social media, Look at 298 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: the way people talk in public in front of kids 299 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: and women. Look look at the hot Look at how 300 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: how our culture has changed just in my lifetime. And 301 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm not that old, how much, courser, we've got so 302 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: of course our politics have gotten that much, courser. And 303 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 1: and when when that's where we are, I just I 304 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: think your hope for healing is uh, well, it ain't 305 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: gonna happen soon. Well. And the book is not a 306 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: come by your book. It is not a book that says, oh, well, 307 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: let's we're all gonna love each other eventually. It's much 308 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: more that says, look, we gotta we gotta recognize exactly 309 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: how divided we are. And you know, we're not asking 310 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: for love and across this, but a basic recognition that 311 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: each of us has a a fun core fundamental rights, 312 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: fundamental constitutional rights, and all we also should have a 313 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: core ability of self governance. And it's not comed by you. 314 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: That's pluralism and pluralism. Uh. There's a writer who goes 315 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: in a pseudonym, Scott Alexander, that that pluralism and classical 316 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: liberalism are the best civil war avoidance philosophies ever created 317 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: by the mind of man, because they allow people with 318 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: very opposed beliefs and world views to live together in 319 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: the same republic. But you know, one of the things 320 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: about about my book that I do not posit a 321 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: civil war. That's not what I predict could happen. For 322 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: the very reason that you said that a lot of 323 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: people are so exhausted with each other that the idea 324 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: that they'd say, well, we'll go to war and and 325 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: have just an awful death and destruction that modern weaponry 326 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: can unleash on a nation. To keep California if California 327 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: wants to go, keep Texas, if Texas wants to go. 328 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: My thought is that the enmity and the disgust is 329 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: growing so great that there would be a constituency of people. 330 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: They say, so, we're more like a couple that hates 331 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: each other. I want good what We're both happier now. 332 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: We had a long running joke on the radio show 333 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: David that when the Chinese invaded the San Francisco and 334 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: San Francisco sent out the call to the rest of 335 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: the states to send troops, they get a lot of 336 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: Whoda it's wrong number the original It's funny you say 337 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: that because the original title, before we came up with 338 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: what I think is a better title of Divided We Fall, 339 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: was the Great American Divorce. And I had an analogy 340 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: of a couple whose marriage was on the rocks, and 341 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: I said, it's as if Red America and Blue America 342 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: they're not They're they're in marriage counseling. Uh. And one 343 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: is sleeping on the couch and one is sleeping in 344 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: the bed, but they're not quite yet ready to call 345 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: it a day. And and you know, one of the 346 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: things I think that we have here is one of 347 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: the reasons why people are one of the dangers that 348 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: we have is that I think both sides are a 349 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: little bit over optimistic about their ability to just go 350 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: ahead and win and just sweep aside their opponents. And 351 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: one of the things I tried to do in the 352 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: book is to spell the nosing that when you have 353 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: a nation this divided over these many over the seams 354 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: of such importance, the very idea that you can ultimately 355 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: end it all in the conflict by domination rather than accommodation, right, 356 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: is deeply misguided. And you know, to at the risk 357 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: of stounding overly uh simpleton on this, I think we 358 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: need so badly to re embrace the concept of liberty 359 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: all of us. One of my all time favorite libertarian 360 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: sayings as conservative is want um Republicans to be in control. 361 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: Liberals want Democrats to be in control, and libertarians wonder 362 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: why you want to be controlled? I think if if 363 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: we could better recognize, oh, those people over there have 364 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: different needs but of a different stub culture, how interesting 365 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: but that doesn't affect me. And meanwhile, they don't decide 366 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: I should live like they think we could. We could 367 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: do fine and visit each other's cities and scratch our 368 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: heads and think that's interesting. Well, you know, we actually 369 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: have that basic layout in the Constitution. You know, if 370 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: you talk about securing the Bill of Rights, which after 371 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: the Civil War amendments, the Bill of Rights was not 372 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: intended to be just a quirky thing that applies to 373 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: the federal government only, but all Americans enjoy the benefit 374 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: of the Bill of Rights from government period. So if 375 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: you secure individual liberty through the Bill of Rights or 376 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: fundamental social Compact, but then allow for federalism as allowed 377 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: for in the Constitution, then you've got a real chance 378 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: here to de escalate every de escalate our elections while 379 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: at the same time protecting Americans basic liberties. And where 380 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: we've fallen down as a country again and again and 381 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: again is when we have not extended the Bill of 382 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: Rights to every American. I mean think about obviously slavery, obviously, 383 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: Jim Crow, but other times in American life, our big 384 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: failure in federalism has been when we federalize the Bill 385 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: of Rights, when we have a federalism of a bill 386 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: of rights that says different states have you know, can 387 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: can restrict these fundamental liberties. So my my proposal is 388 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: the opposite. The Biddle Bill of Rights applies to every 389 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: single person, but then there's broad variation in the states 390 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: and taxes, on health care policy, on environmental policy, all 391 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: these things that are really important to folks and reflect 392 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: their values. But under those circumstances, should you lose the 393 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: right of free speech, should you lose the right of 394 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: due process or the right of free exercise religion? Because 395 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: those are the that's fundamental to be an American. You 396 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: and I and Joe are all about the same age, 397 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to really fight becoming an old guy 398 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: who you know, watches Fox and says the country's going 399 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: to hell for the rest of my life. I don't 400 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: I don't really want to be that. I'd I'd like 401 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: to be a little more solution or handed. But um, 402 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, the stuff you're talking about and the coarseness 403 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: of society and some of those stuff that I know 404 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: you and Jonah Goldberg and people on the Dispatch have 405 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: talked about the weakness of the parties, the emphasis on 406 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: the president. For the president is the government at every level, 407 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: whether it's your school or whatever the hell it is, 408 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: your roads, the president is and we put all of 409 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: our eggs in one basket that is as far away 410 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: from us as possible. All these things are a problem. Yeah, well, 411 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: and think about it. To make it even worse, we're 412 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: proting all of our eggs in the basket of a 413 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 1: guy who many of us, maybe even most of us, 414 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: don't even cast a meaningful vote for them one or 415 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: the other. We live in safe red or blue uh states. 416 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: So here you have all of this power moving to 417 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: this one single person. We're only a fragment of Americans 418 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: cast will meaningful votes for And so is it any 419 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: wonder people are so frustrated that they pour their frustration 420 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: and raid into pointless social media posting and and pointless 421 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: and in fury filled Twitter arguments that all they end 422 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: up doing they don't really do much about our body 423 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: politics except make everybody angrier. And so that's what I 424 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: mean when DS when I talk about de escalation, Because 425 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: if we're pouring all our hopes and dreams into a 426 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: president when most of this will even matter for his election, Yeah, 427 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: it's it's really that is not a viable construct for 428 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: a increasingly diverse country, and overlay it on top of it. 429 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: I keep saying this again and again. If you overlay 430 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: on top of all these divisions, the very real phenomenon 431 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: of increased angry, bitter, hate filled partisanship, that's that creates instability. 432 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: Back to the Constitution, Dead white men, That's what I say. 433 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: So David French's book is Divided, we fall. And I'm 434 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: glad you brought up the election, and We're gonna play 435 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: some of this stuff on the radio tomorrow to pimp 436 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: your book some more and I hope it sells well 437 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: and you become so rich you don't even know what 438 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: to do with all the money. But um, you brought 439 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: up the election, and I really like the stuff that 440 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: you and Sarah do on the dispatch, the lawyer stuff 441 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: about some of the lead challenges that are going to 442 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: come around the election. What's the what's what's the main 443 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: thing you're worried about, whether it's the mail in booting 444 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: or the different laws that are being changed, or where 445 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: that's going to turn into rioting in the streets, or 446 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: we don't know who the president is for two weeks. 447 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: What do you think is the biggest weakness out there, well, 448 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: the single biggest, the single biggest concern that I have 449 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: is that you have such a difference between the election 450 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: titans to a point where it's tighter than the polls 451 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: currently are. Because this scenario wouldn't matter if the current polls, 452 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, are either accurate or the race doesn't tighten. 453 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: But let's assume the race types of it, which is 454 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: a proper assumption, I think, and you begin to see 455 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: a situation where one candidate, probably Tump, that's better on 456 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: the in person voting, and another candidate, probably Biden, does 457 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: better on the mail in voting. And this is not speculative. 458 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: We know that Republicans and Democrats have different views of 459 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: mail in and in person voting. But here's the problem. 460 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: Even under the best circumstances, there is a higher rate 461 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: of discarded ballots for male in voting. Then there is 462 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: then that we've seen especially in the primaries and for 463 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: the in person voting. And if the race is close 464 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: and you begin to have local election officials discarding, say, 465 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: mail in ballots at a higher rate than perhaps normal 466 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: or appropriate, you're going to have Bush be gore. But 467 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: not just Bushy Gore in Florida, or three, three or 468 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: four counties in Florida, but multiple states and multiple jurisdictions 469 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: within those states, in a country that is far more 470 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: polarized than they weren't two thousands, um in two thousand. 471 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, that was a contentious election, But if 472 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: you think about it, like the most dramatic moment and 473 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: the whole things when Buss nodded at Al Gore, when 474 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: Gore got like a little bit close to him, they 475 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: can you look back on that and you're like, oh, 476 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: that was like the Lincoln Douglas debates by comparisons. And 477 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: so you've got a moss more divided country with a 478 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: really opaque vote counting process that occurs behind closed doors, 479 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: governed by local officials that are not accountable to the 480 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: rest of the nation, heavily influenced by local partisanship. I mean, 481 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: it's a recipe for the first own in our lives. 482 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: In my life, and I said this a lots of faults. 483 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: I don't think it's likely, but it's quite possible that 484 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: I can imagine an outright constitutional crisis happening in the 485 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: US in my lifetime. And again, I don't think it's likely, Um, 486 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: but it's quite possible. Yeah, And that's the legal stuff. 487 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: In terms of people in the streets when you have 488 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump thing they're going to try 489 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: to steal it from us or who knows, God knows 490 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: what they're gonna say come election day or the day 491 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: after that. Ain't gonna I'm gonna stock up on plywood. 492 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: That's my plan. Well, and yeah, you raise a good 493 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: point by talking about who knows what they'd say in 494 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: the moment, Because everything we talk about right now is theoretical. 495 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: So we're like theoretically angry and upset about what's going 496 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: to happen on saying over thirta and fourth and fifth 497 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: and six. But then when you're in the middle of it, 498 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: when the whole thing hangs in the balance, and we've 499 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: taught Americans, and we've told Americans that the whole country 500 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: hangs in the balance on the outcome of this election. Um, 501 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden things look cloudy the rhetoric. 502 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: Do we think for one minute the rhetoric is going 503 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: to get more tempered. Do we think one for one 504 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: minute that emotions will be cooler, Oh, it'll be far worse. 505 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: So I love. I love when my colleague Steve Hayes 506 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: said somebody asked him what do you want to see 507 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: out of the election, and he just had a one 508 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: word response, clarity that in the absence of clarity, we've 509 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: got trouble. Amen to that. David French's new book is Divided, 510 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: We Fall, America's secession threatened. How to restore our nation? David, 511 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: It's always fun, it's always stimulating. Thanks a million. I 512 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: hope we can do it again. Well, thanks so much 513 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, the I've 514 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: been saying for a long time, I'd like to see 515 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: somebody went in the landslide. Think that would be very beneficial. 516 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: Whoever winds make it be very clear, it wouldn't have 517 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: mattered if this state went the other way. You take 518 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: it out that person still one. Well, especially because if 519 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: the election is close and there's absolute wonderful clarity for 520 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: anybody with an understanding of the law in the recounts 521 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: and everything that happened, and everybody who has that clarity agrees, yes, 522 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: it's this outcome, it will be so easy to whip 523 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: up and mobilize people with disinformation. I mean effortless. They're 524 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: already primed. They're ready to believe John, we didn't even 525 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, we're we're just looking at the people within 526 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: our borders. We're not even thinking about the Chinese and Russians, 527 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: and they're jumping into the conversation. Yeah, good time. So 528 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: so so what do we do We take? We take 529 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: the week before the election off and two weeks after 530 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: for vacation. Yeah, and then just hope it come back, 531 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: come back. Well, folks, that was crazy that many cities 532 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: burned to the ground. Anyway, I'll be durned. Yeah, crazy 533 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: time extra large. When you're ready to ride Metro, we 534 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: want you to know we're ready for you. Here are 535 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: just a few of the people at Metro to tell 536 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: you how we're doing our part to keep riders safe. 537 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: We're cleaning like Neville before the hospital, a great clean. 538 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: You've found half Sun of Sun, of stations, Metro, no mask, 539 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: no Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro. 540 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving. 541 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: Find out more at well Mata dot com, slash doing 542 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: our part