WEBVTT - John Turturro’s Mind at Work 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:06.920 A couple of months ago, I sat down with actor 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:10.000 John Tuturo in front of a live audience at the 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.720 Jerome L. Green Performance Space at New York Public Radio. 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:21.720 I've done a couple of these live interviews, and uh, 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.320 this is someone who in this business, somebody who I've 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.960 admired for so many years as an actor, who has 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.159 appeared in so many great films and rich films and 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.760 diverse films. And I worked with so many incredible directors, 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.680 and there's so many indelible images from the Cone Brothers 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:46.400 and Woody Allen and Scorsese and of course Spike Lee. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.599 There's so many roles worked in the theater. And and 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.880 for anybody who is like me, who is always desperate, 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.320 and that is the word, desperate to find my next 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:03.680 binge viewing source on TV. The night of the program 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:08.440 on HBO, remember writing to him and to Steve Zali 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.280 and the producer and director and creator, and to Richard Price. 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:14.480 I was like, you know, how are you going to 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.640 wrap this up in the final episode. It was just 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.560 like the most incredibly nugety thing that was happening in 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.520 that show, and I love that show The Night Of, 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.280 and I hope they do more of it. But but again, 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.800 I love doing this program because I get to pick 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.800 people that I want to talk to. I'm very grateful 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.000 to our guests this evening for agreeing to do this. 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:36.360 I don't think he has a lot of this stuff. 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.240 I don't think he has been the spare time. But 0:01:39.280 --> 0:02:01.240 please join me and welcoming our very special guest, John Taturo. Now, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.560 all of the things we're going to talk about, he 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.040 and I unfortunately already covered backstage. We try to avoid that. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.160 We try to avoid getting too cozy backstage. But I 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:17.080 remember um we were talking about and I was just 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.560 briefly touching on what it's like for you to produce 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.120 and write and direct your own films, because you've had 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:27.079 this incredible career as a film actor, and you've made 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.760 so many great films that are other people's projects, and 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.400 you're an actor for higher But when you do your 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.760 own thing, described me, for example, the one you just finished. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:40.519 I just finished the film called Going Places. It's a 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:45.560 adaptation or reimagining of a French film called la vel SEUs, 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.040 which is from the from the seventies, and it was 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:55.160 also a book by buttomb Lier level suss it means 0:02:55.200 --> 0:03:00.800 the waltzers or the testicles. Uh. It was a film 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.959 that made Gerard Depardu a star actually, uh, and it's 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.000 a really trans aggressive sort of It's considered kind of 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:13.880 a classic in France. Pauline Kole was a big champion 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.440 of the film, and it was a film that kind 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.959 of blew my mind when I was a kid, and uh, 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.200 I was rewatching it and I wrote to a Bilie 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.320 and I asked him, as it, would you ever think 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.880 that someone could make a you know, an American version 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.600 of it? And uh he said, yeah, I've seen your 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.000 films and you're crazy enough, and here's the rights. So anyway, 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.000 it took me a long time to do that, and uh, 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.600 you know, to to to adapt it and get the 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.480 money to do it, and uh, that's why my hair 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.560 is this way. Uh. And I actually, during the course 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.720 of it, uh was doing readings of it and I 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.480 was kind of unhappy with what I was doing. And 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.240 then I thought of, well, you know, there's a character 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.760 I've done in a play and I think I and 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.320 also in a movie and it would kind of maybe 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.080 work and I tried it and it did and so 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.200 I'm going to uh reprise, Wow, I am. I have 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:11.800 reprised the character of Jesus Quintana. So he's he's going 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:13.960 to be in this film. He is in the film. 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:18.720 So I took this French movie and a character that 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.880 I had created at the public theater and then in 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.599 another movie, and I kind of pushed them all together 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.200 and it kind of worked out, at least in my mind. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.560 It's interesting how someone said that once about Berto Lucci 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.719 and Last Tango, how he picked two actors h and 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.960 he wanted he he identified an actor and an actress 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.280 and he went into their filmography to figure out who 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.080 through a character they had played, that character would have 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.320 grown to become the character in my film right now. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.239 It's it's the truth. Sometimes you want to revisit somebody 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.080 years later and uh, but you know, you have to 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.080 be kind of a little crazy to attempt to do 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.080 one of these things. I started out the first movie 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.520 I made Mac that was a play and it took me. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.360 I worked on it for like ten years, and uh, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.280 it was my first movie. And after I did that, 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.920 many people asked me to direct other movies. But I 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.119 kind of knew that I wasn't really a director for hire. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.840 And I did my film because I did that film 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.080 because I understood that world. I grew up in it. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.680 My father was a builder, and there were no films 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.680 ever made about builders. You know, It's always about you know, 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.359 gangsters or criminals or lawyers, but you never see a 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.680 film about you know, bricklayers or builders or bridge builders. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.000 And uh, I wanted to make a film about that 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:39.800 because it's a very uh challenging and dramatic business. You know, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.400 it can be a very dangerous business. Also, your father 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.680 was in construction. My father was a building a builder. Yeah, 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.719 and your mother was a housewifether she had. My mother 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.200 was a person. She was a musician and then she 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.320 kind of gave it up. Her brothers were professional musicians, 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.240 but she wanted to be like a designer. But she 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.080 was a very talented person, probably the most talented person 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.240 in our family. But uh, she didn't really get a 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.360 chance to do all of that, but she certainly made 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.200 sure that. You know, we had that. How many kids 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.680 in your family, you and your brother, three boys. I'm 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.320 the middle child. And what did your family think about 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.720 when you wanted to go to New Paul's and then 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.080 Yale Drama School. And my father wanted me to have 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.440 a backup plan, you know. You wanted me to be 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.360 a lawyer or a doctor, and I was pretty good 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.560 in school. He didn't want me to be a carpentery. 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.560 He wanted me to be an architect, you know, he 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.880 he thought, but I wasn't really good enough and math 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.560 to do that. But he wanted me to be professional man, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.040 you know, like a lot of immigrant. My father was 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.200 wasn't born here. He was born in Italy and he 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.800 came here and then he wound up being you know, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.000 in the service. He was in World War Two, he 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.400 was in invasion of D Day, and uh, you know, 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.560 so he was a real kind of American guy. You know. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.960 He wanted me to to reap all those rewards. So 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.200 when you are a child, I mean, because you and 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.360 I are roughly the same age, when you were young, 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.040 what was film and theater in your life? As a child? 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:10.120 Was your house a lot of music and uh, I 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.000 guess film. I mean we would go to the movies 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.480 all the time. But obviously probably like you, we watched 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.640 million Dollar movie, you know what I mean. And the 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.600 Honeymooners and all those classic things that really influenced us. 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.760 And uh, I mean, I think what a lot of 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.680 those Warner Brothers films, because they would always be on 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.240 over and over again with Edward g and Robinson and 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:34.920 James Cagney, and you know, oh I loved I loved 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.040 so many of them, you know, and uh, you know, 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.720 uh one time I would want to be Bert Lancaster, 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.480 and then I would want to be James Cagney, and 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.640 then uh, I mean, I still love those actors. And 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.560 I love those actors because they're really physical and you 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.400 really see their whole performance, and uh, they're still you know, 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.680 Barbara Stanwick. You know, I just you know, just crazy 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.520 about them, and I still have remained. So I remember 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.440 when I was a kid, my favorite death scene was 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:04.120 in a city for Conquest. Kazan gets shot by the 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.280 river and they dumped the body in the river and 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.160 the guys dropped the gun and the guy picks up 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:09.560 the gun and they piste a whoop. The guy who 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.640 wakes up picks up the gun, he shoots Kazan and 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.600 Kazan's get shoty as my favorite definitely goes ah jeez. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.840 I never figured on that at all. That's good. That's 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.160 a great one. And that's a real tier Jericho at 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.200 the end because he goes he goes blind at the 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.800 end with Anne Jaran and so you know you always 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.840 my girl, you know, at the end he's selling newspapers, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.520 you know, and it's like, you know, James, you know 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.360 that's uh so those that was an inspiration. And then 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.160 when I was introduced when I saw a theater when 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.760 I was a teenager, my mother would take me to 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.120 some place and I did get a chance to see 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:48.280 al Pacino do the tiger wear necktie. Yeah, I didn't 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.040 you know who he was, but my mother and I 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.079 were like, wow, who's that guy? You know in that play? 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.720 And uh we saw some musicals ben Verene, you know, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.320 and uh it was like just watching live performers. I was. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.680 I thought, Wow, maybe that's something I could do because 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.400 I never knew anyone. And what made you think from 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.800 It's interesting because for me, I never dreamed of that. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.880 Like I thought I thought movie stars were like, you know, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.360 hatched and pods on some other planets and I flew 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.520 them here in a spaceship and like nobody really went 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:20.800 and did that from no, I mean we knew a 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.520 prop man. He lived across the street from us, and 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.520 that was like as close as I was to the movies. 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.720 So theater was the first entree about maybe trying to 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.040 do that, you know, in college. You know. It wasn't 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.040 until I saw Dustin Hoffman actually, which when I saw 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.240 clips for the Academy Award, I was too young to 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.280 see Midnight Cowboy. I was shocked, I was. I remember 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.240 seeing it. I say like, wow, this guy looks like 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.400 someone in our family, you know what, you know, what's 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.040 he doing in the movie? How can he be in 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:51.720 a movie? You know? And I was like kind of 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.480 shocked to see him. And it was kind of shocking 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.200 because he sort of opened the doors for these other 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.120 Pacino and de Niro and all those guys. And but 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.880 that was really I never forget seeing those clips of 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.800 you know, for the Academy Awards. And then when you 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.880 went to New Paul, she went for drama and I 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:12.320 had him, Yeah, and I had him. I did a 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.400 minor in English and yes, and I was in there 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.880 for four years. Yes, My first play I did was 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.240 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I played Chief Browndon 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.480 because this Italian teacher said, you know, listen, you probably 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.680 could play an Indian, so you should audition for you know, 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.000 And I was like, all right, different times, different times, 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.560 I can't do that. Now. If you see a lot 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.240 of those guys you know who were in these like 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:41.160 Anthony Quinn, he played Indians, you know originally you know, Uh, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:50.320 Jeff Chandler, Jeff Chandler, Yeah, Burt Lancaster Apache. So yeah, 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.200 and when you were there, what evolved like when you 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.720 were at New Paulse what do you remember propelled you 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.520 want to keep going? Well, I did a few plays 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.920 of you from the Bridge Cuckoo's Nest. Uh. Later on 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:07.040 I didn't so I I I felt like, Uh, I 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.600 found something that I really I was very raw and 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.640 I was I was not that you know skilled. I 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.600 remember one teacher thought I was. But I wasn't afraid, 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.280 you know, to try things. And uh, I had a 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.920 few teachers who took me under their wing, and uh 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.839 they had a major influence on Beverly Brown. She passed away, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:29.319 but she what did she gave you? What did she 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.560 do for you? She she basically educated me in many 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:35.880 different ways and you know, taught me how to break 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.560 down a script, how to you know, play an objective, 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:40.800 you know how to listen to the other actor, you 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.560 know how to work physically. And she spent so much 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:49.200 time with me, you know, out of the classroom too 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.480 that I had. I had a bunch of teachers. They 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.640 really cared about me, and they cared about other schools. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.840 And I, you know, I'm still friends with I never, 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.440 you know, cut off my relationship with those people. It's 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.800 interesting because like I think about people who and it 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.840 is kind of a latent learning, Like they say things 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.120 to you when it comes back to you even years later, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.400 what they said to you. You know, I remember I 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.679 did a I had a woman, Mia Rostova. She's a 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.920 wonderful Stova was my teacher for a year. She taught 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:18.600 her in an apartment that she borrowed from a friend 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.800 of hers, her by the old Barneys. But she was 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.160 my teacher. And she passed away a few years or 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.160 she was ninety nine years old. And uh, we did 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.520 a scene once. I'll never forget this incredible lesson she 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.800 gave me of not playing everything at the expense of 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.439 the other actor. Because you're a very warm and very 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.200 generous actor. You know, you have a you have a 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:39.400 great passion, but you're not selfish. And that's such an 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.520 incredible thing I see and people. I'm always drawn to 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.200 actors like that because Rostova would be there and the 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.079 actors would do the scene and the guys at the table, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:48.559 and the woman comes in in her trench coat and 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.959 she has her pocketbook and her back bags of groceries 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.200 or whatever, and the guy goes, what time is it? Says, 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.400 she goes at six o'clock. He says, where are you been? 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.280 Rostova literally goes, okay, let's stop. That's right, that's right, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.640 and she goes. She was obviously had a very heavy accent. 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.319 She says, why you talk to her like this? What? 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.920 Because he prepared it. That's why he went to show, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:15.840 he said. He says, why don't you not say what 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:19.480 time is it? Where you've been? He's the where you 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.320 were going. We have plenty of time to get there, 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.760 you know, because I worked on in daytime a lot 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:25.679 to the soap and there were guys we used to 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.920 joke about who They always were going to lay into 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.640 you in the scene, even when they said they loved you. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:35.160 They were like, I love you, Mary, Yeah, I love you. 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.360 You know. They was really like all attention you did 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.599 you did you feel that you had that innately, that 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.000 kind of general spirit you have. I think, you know, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.199 I was a pretty good listener, but I think I 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.480 refined it when I studied the Sandy Meisner technique at 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.960 Carnegy Hall with Robert X Motika. He really that's what 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.120 it's all about, you know, listening and responding and letting 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.680 your partner affect you and doing out of that. And uh, 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.360 I thought that was very very good training and it's essential. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.640 But when this is then you decided to go to Yale, 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.200 why did you want to dive in and go right 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.200 to work? I did. I tried to go to work. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.680 I was very shy about going out there and hustling. 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.120 I was a school teacher for a while. I taught 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.600 at UH, I was a substitute. I taught at Rice 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.600 High School in Harlem to teach American history. And I 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.480 also taught at a Catholic school called Our Lady Queen 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.320 of Martyr UH fifth and sixth graders. And I and 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.680 I got invited back to both of these things, but 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.720 I was doing showcases, and I and my teacher, Beverly Broum, 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:36.840 had gone to Yale, and I thought, you know what, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.240 I don't know really how to hustle that much, you know, 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.920 I was I was kind of shy. So I applied 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.360 to n y U and to Yale, and I got 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.600 into both programs and I got a scholarship to Yale, 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.000 and uh, I thought, well, you know, I'll give it 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.320 a shot. And uh, you know, my father was overjoyed 0:14:54.320 --> 0:15:00.400 because he loved the masonry work I kept. When he 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.440 was like he didn't care. He was like, oh my god, 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.280 look at the buildings, you know, and he was like, 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:09.120 oh my god. So uh uh And then you know 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.880 I did. I worked a lot there and uh and 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.520 I you know, I did a little new plays, got 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.280 classical plays. Uh. You know, so when you get out 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.880 of Yale and what do you do? Then Lloyd Richards 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.640 gave me a job. I mean I auditioned and I 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.000 did two plays, one by Keith ra Dean who was 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.480 a friend of mine, and one by John Patrick Shanlon. 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.480 And uh that's how I met John and I did 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.160 uh the Light, the Light version of Danny in a 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:39.640 Deep Blue cy Uh. And then eventually John, you know, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.360 brought me back to do a workshop at Circle Rep. 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.440 And then I did it later on at the Actors 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.400 Theater of Louisville, and then we brought it to New York. 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:53.560 And really that was my entree, you know, people seeing 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.640 me on stage, and and I got other work, you 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.080 know from that play, you know. And John really a 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.400 big effect on me, you know, he you know, he 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.840 wanted me to be in like everything he wrote at 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.760 that time, and I did every reading and but he 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.200 was really supportive of me. And uh, you know, he's 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:13.600 the one who really fought for me to be in 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.000 Five Corners and uh, you know, I really owe a 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.920 lot to John. Uh And uh the Five Corners was 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:24.080 the movie with Jodie Foster and Tim Robbins. That was 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.400 the beginning, really, and then I started getting in some 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.240 movies and I did. I work with Billy Freakin and uh, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.680 I've lived to talk about it. Uh, And I worked 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.280 with Michael Tremino and lived to talk about talk about that. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.880 You did you did to live in l A? Yeah, 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.360 freaking yeah. And that was a pretty wild movie. Was 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.200 with Bill Peterson and uh, Willem Dafoe and Johnny pack 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:46.680 Out and none of us, I don't think I had 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.600 been maybe Willem had been in the movie and he 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.440 was pretty out there guy, and uh, you had to 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.400 be careful physically. You don't know what he was gonna 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.120 do to you. And uh we worked in a in 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.520 a prison, uh which with prisoners, with guys on towers 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:05.520 with machine guns, and uh we we all had altercations 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.040 with him on the film. And I didn't know, you know, 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.280 this is what moviemaking is like that maybe the director 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.600 will jump on top of you, you know. Uh, but 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.760 he did and uh and I think I learned a 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.240 lot from working with him and working with Amino because 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.480 you didn't know what was going to happen. I mean, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.280 it's kind of the cocaine eighties, you know. But there 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.439 were directors that, you know, tell the other actor, you know, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:29.480 hit him in the face, stop him in the face. 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:31.919 Even if we were doing a scene like this, you 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:37.760 know how right, I'm a doctor. Hit him in the face, 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:39.359 hit him in the face, put him in a face. 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.480 So it was like the deer Hunter scene, the Russian 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:47.440 Roulette scene applied to every other scene. And you know, uh, 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.359 but I I you know, I learned to ride a 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.840 horse on the film. I worked with min know, and 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.880 I think I learned. Yeah, And it was really I 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:59.280 was like the only Italian person in the entire movie, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.399 you know what I mean. I was Italian American at 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.399 half Sicilian, and everyone else was from all over the world. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.440 And but I think those move those movies really helped 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.679 me for later on to be able to stand up 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.320 for myself and say, you know, no, I don't agree, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.080 I'm not going to do that. But it is that 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.800 a part of it meaning because for me, you know, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.120 I remember the beginning of my career, and you might 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.439 find this hard to believe. I was actually very guileless 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:30.960 and I was very tender and uh, and I get 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.760 to work and I didn't want to piss anybody off. 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.600 And so you're you're you're you're the guest in their house, 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.680 and you want to be professional, and you confuse professionalism 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.320 what's kind of laying down and just done, just laying 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.200 down and not having an opinion. And the minute you 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.840 start to have an opinion about anything, people are like, 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.040 you know, oh Jesus Christ, you know you know that 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.120 you're difficult, and uh, it's very interesting that you say 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.800 that that you remember. On a couple of occasions, I 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:57.159 sit there and I say, you know, I know this 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.239 doesn't really make sense to me. And I wound up 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.280 where like the Rector, I wouldn't even speak for like 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.240 three months. It's a very difficult process. No, it's hard 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.600 to speak, not speaking for three months because I think 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:10.800 the fear of being fired. If you're an actor, it's 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.800 so hard to get hired. The fear of being fired 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.320 is held over your head and you have to get 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.879 to the point where you don't care if you'll be fired, 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.040 you know, to say I don't I'm not going to 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.679 do that. And uh. I did that on Five Corners 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.040 the first day and the guy tried to block a 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.399 scene and Bill and I said I don't want to 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.000 do it, and he said what I said, and I 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.560 wanted to be sitting against the wall because the guy 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.760 had gotten out of prison, and I kind of laid 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.000 it down and that was the beginning. And then I 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.440 had a very good collaboration during that movie. And that's 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.800 the first movie I felt like I was doing what 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.800 I could do on stage, but in a movie. And 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.040 then what happens after you do uh? And I started 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:56.000 getting you know different. Uh. Spike Lee, you know, called 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.560 me up. The Cohen Brothers knew me because I went 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.080 to school with Frances mcdorman's, so they saw all the 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.480 plays I was I was in, so they would see 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.040 me all the time. I come kind of friends with them. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:07.960 So then I eventually told me they were writing apart 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.080 from me. But it took them all such a long 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.560 time to write because this crossing because they had writer's block, 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:14.520 and in the middle of it, they wrote Barton Fink. 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.520 That's how they wrote Barton Fink. And Uh. So then 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.480 I did, Uh. I did. Spike asked me to come 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.800 in and and I read Do the Right Thing and 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.399 uh because he saw five Corners and you know, I 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:30.800 was excited when I read it. I said, well, this 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.000 is about what's going on. And I grew up in 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.200 a you know, I grew up in a black neighborhood. 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.040 I moved to a white neighborhood. I was bust out 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.679 to all black school, so a lot of you know, 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:45.280 the issues were issues that I grew up with. And uh, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.639 and Spike and I really became very, very close friends. 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.080