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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Scott, I'm Evan Noby Williams, and I'm Michael Barr.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where we

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Speaker 1: and it's not just four, it's five because we have

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Speaker 1: my man Owen that's in the studio. That's right. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome Owen. How you doing? Tell everybody why you're here? Um,

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Speaker 1: my good friend Pete Coats brought me and sit in

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Speaker 1: and meet you guys, and why what do you want

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Speaker 1: to do? Where do you go to school? What do

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Speaker 1: you want to do? So? I went to King's College

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Speaker 1: out in Wilkesbury, Pennsylvania. And that's Marland. Oh man, my

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Speaker 1: my son used to go there. Really a fellow, mon

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Speaker 1: are beautiful? I have family in Corkdale, Pennsylvania. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: have no connection to the area. Hey, but it's so.

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Speaker 1: I was out there and I studied broadcast communications. I

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Speaker 1: worked in some TV. I worked for the college radio.

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Speaker 1: And uh now I'm trying to, you know, explore the

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Speaker 1: market and figure out what I want to do. A

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Speaker 1: new highlight here you are. Yeah, that's Hill. We'll test

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Speaker 1: him out. We'll see what he knows about our topics.

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Speaker 1: What are our topics? Bar We got several usually. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this one, let's start and very serious. Um. I mean

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Speaker 1: about the death of Paul Allen, who is big uh

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Speaker 1: in sports. He's done so much co founder of Microsoft.

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Speaker 1: You wrote a story about this yesterday and you were

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Speaker 1: talking about now because he has two major entities in

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Speaker 1: sports and what this is going to mean for the market. Yes,

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Speaker 1: strictly from the sports perspective. Obviously, he owns the Seattle

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Speaker 1: Seahawks two and a half three billion dollar asset and

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Speaker 1: the Portland Trailblazers one point three four billion dollar asset

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Speaker 1: and the Sounders and the Sounders stake in the MLS team. Rarely,

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Speaker 1: rarely do assets like this come on the market at

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Speaker 1: the same time. Now, his estate has not said what

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Speaker 1: it intends to do with these. But he has no wife,

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Speaker 1: he has no kids. His sister has shown very little

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Speaker 1: interest in the sports teams. I'm hearing that basketball team

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Speaker 1: certainly will be for sale. Maybe she'll hold onto the

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Speaker 1: football team. Maybe at some point in the future it's

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Speaker 1: for sale. But sports bankers are all sort of buzzing

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Speaker 1: and circling and wondering what's happening, because an auction like

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Speaker 1: this would bring out some very interesting bidders. It's funny.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about how kind of quiet this last couple

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Speaker 1: of months or even last year has been from a

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Speaker 1: sales perspective. UH, the Carolina Panthers were up on the market,

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Speaker 1: they sold. UH. The addition of a football team and

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Speaker 1: the basketball team coming on the market at once, UH

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Speaker 1: certainly would make this market a little more vibrant. What

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Speaker 1: are the possibilities assuming that both are being sold. Is

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Speaker 1: there a possibility that they get sold together, which would obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know, raise the bar for the type of person,

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Speaker 1: the amount of money. Paul Allen is the seven ridgiest

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Speaker 1: person in the world, the type of person that would

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Speaker 1: even be able to put together a big groups. As

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Speaker 1: we saw with the Panthers and Temper, that number was

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Speaker 1: whittled down to really Temper quickly, because you need to

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Speaker 1: down is the NFL managing partner. It depends on what

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Speaker 1: the state wants to do. Could you sell them separately?

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Speaker 1: Obviously this will be about maximizing dollars, So they'll crunch

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Speaker 1: the numbers, they'll speak to their reps, and they'll figure

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Speaker 1: out how do we maximize the dollars. Somebody, because they

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Speaker 1: are close in proximity, somebody may so I'll take them

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Speaker 1: both off your hands. And perhaps for the ability to

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Speaker 1: do that at a price greater than what it would

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Speaker 1: be sold separately, you think that that they could command

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Speaker 1: more money together than they would if you separated them

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Speaker 1: and found if you find and maybe there's one, if

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Speaker 1: you find the right person who really wants those assets,

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Speaker 1: may overbid for the right to do it. And as

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Speaker 1: we talk about the Seahawks specifically, um, in my mind,

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Speaker 1: this would be the most expensive U sports team ever sold.

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Speaker 1: Is that that's essentially what the people you're talking to

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Speaker 1: coming out, Yes, two, yeah, yeah, it'll likely clips two

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Speaker 1: point three. Well, what are the chances that his only sister,

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Speaker 1: his only siblings says, Hey, wait a minute, is this

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Speaker 1: part of me? Is this? Is this? Go to me?

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Speaker 1: Is this in the will? And I hate to talk

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Speaker 1: like that, but well that those are the realistic questions

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Speaker 1: that are being asked. And some of the folks at

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Speaker 1: the end, at the NBA and the NFL have told me,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're not sure what the estate is. And

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Speaker 1: then we're not sure if his sister, if she does

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Speaker 1: indeed inherit the teams, we're not sure what she wants

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Speaker 1: to do. Is it too early to ask these questions

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Speaker 1: in the banking world, No, because that these are these

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Speaker 1: are the questions that are being asked if if you

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Speaker 1: move solid. I won't use the name, but a certain

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Speaker 1: banker after Ralph Wilson died said really asked himself, how

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Speaker 1: long do I need to wait before I inquire at

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Speaker 1: the NFL about maybe representing the estate on the sell

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Speaker 1: the Buffalo bills? And he in his mind he said, well,

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Speaker 1: I a week or two, like that's that's proper. So

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Speaker 1: he waited and then he made the call and the

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Speaker 1: word back from the NFL was your way too late,

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Speaker 1: like they were in right away. And this person said,

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Speaker 1: I'm not making that mistake again, so fair to say

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Speaker 1: that we will know I think very shortly what the

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Speaker 1: future of these teams will be, whether they will be captured,

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Speaker 1: they will be sold. Yes. Oh, and your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: the possible sale of the Seahawks and Blazers. Do you

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Speaker 1: definitely think that they'd be sold together? Do you think

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Speaker 1: they definitely? No? I do not definitely think. Well, that

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Speaker 1: would be the problem. You have to find somebody would

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Speaker 1: be severely limiting your buyer pool, for sure. Steve Bamber,

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Speaker 1: you're interested I've got a basketball team, or after it's

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Speaker 1: got a basketball team. UM, yeah, I don't know who

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Speaker 1: would be. Uh. Let's let's just say one of our

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Speaker 1: former guests is probably eyeing it right now. Mr Tim Lwicky,

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Speaker 1: he has key arena, He's gonna have a hockey team.

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Speaker 1: You're not the odds of the Blazers moving. I probably not.

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Speaker 1: But to own multiple teams in the same market, especially

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Speaker 1: in the NFL, UM, he'll find a way to make

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Speaker 1: it work in arena management, that's what he's into. So

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Speaker 1: let's toss that out there real quick. I'd be curious

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Speaker 1: about what the Sounder stake might be worth as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: we see a lot of expansion teams come they have

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Speaker 1: a heavy price tag in MLS. The Sounders are one

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Speaker 1: of the few teams, or not one of the few teams,

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Speaker 1: one of the teams that d drop very well in MLS. UM,

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Speaker 1: that will be an interesting we can we still say

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Speaker 1: that with it with Atlanta United, Atlanta is probably the

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Speaker 1: highest Portland Seattle Atlanta. You know that these are teams

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Speaker 1: that draw in a football stadium and draw big numbers.

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Speaker 1: UM will be curious to see if that gets sold separately.

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Speaker 1: What kind of price tag gets put on an elite

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Speaker 1: team that has a really big following in a smaller league.

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Speaker 1: My guess is the current owners just absorb it and

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Speaker 1: then and then at a time to be determined, can

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Speaker 1: bring in new partners, because again, it's not just about

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Speaker 1: the money. When you're LPs, it's not about them just

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Speaker 1: the money. Would managing general partners say these days we

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Speaker 1: need people who who bring us some expertise in something

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Speaker 1: real estate, media, banking, whatever it may be. Anybody can

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Speaker 1: cut the check, but but you need some real expertise

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Speaker 1: in something. And then one last question on Paul Allen,

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Speaker 1: how does this affect the NFL as a whole. He's

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Speaker 1: obviously a very tech forward. He was a smart mind

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Speaker 1: in owners meetings. Um, yeah, more so probably a business

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Speaker 1: savvy er that than your average NFL owner. They does

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Speaker 1: have any impact, They have access to best and brightess

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Speaker 1: as in whatever industry they want. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: it really impacts it much, you know, on the personal level,

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Speaker 1: I was there. I don't even know how many years ago.

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Speaker 1: I went to Portland a bunch of times, and the

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Speaker 1: one time he did agree to talk to me, and

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Speaker 1: he didn't like to talk a lot. So I approached

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Speaker 1: him at halftime and has always got a security around him,

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Speaker 1: and he was sitting with Bill Gates. So I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this isn't gonna happen, But what the heck? I have

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Speaker 1: to take a chance. I'm out in Portland, right And uh,

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Speaker 1: he did agree to chat for five ten minutes, just

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Speaker 1: sort of a little chat on business of basketball. Um.

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Speaker 1: But he was not one to seek the spotlight. He

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Speaker 1: did not grant many interviews. He's not a few, but

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Speaker 1: he didn't do it a lot on the sports teams.

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Speaker 1: You're exactly right, Paul Allen, you will be missed. And

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Speaker 1: onto another topic. This is about Nick Bosa, the Ohio

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Speaker 1: State defensive end. He is withdrawn from school because he

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Speaker 1: suffered an injury. I guess it was a core muscle

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Speaker 1: and muscles bar Yet with my core, it's under my

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Speaker 1: fat stomach, is what it is for me. But I

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Speaker 1: mean it's what he wants to get ready for the

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Speaker 1: twenty nine NFL Draft. And uh, I wonder if this

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Speaker 1: is the right move or not. But and I love

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Speaker 1: these kinds of stories where players say why should I

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Speaker 1: come back and play for good old os U and

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Speaker 1: risk injury? He is projected to be a top three

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Speaker 1: or four pick, right, maybe the best defensive player in football.

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Speaker 1: Why should I come back and risk my future and

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Speaker 1: another injury for Ohile State. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get out of here. I'm done. I've I've used college

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Speaker 1: football for everything it's worth to him, legitimized himself. I

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Speaker 1: better knows who he is and move on to when

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Speaker 1: he's gonna get paid. Yeah, we I mean, we can

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Speaker 1: talk hard numbers. The NFL rookies are paid on a scale.

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Speaker 1: It's contingent on the salary cap and the rookie wage pool.

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Speaker 1: But just to use last year's numbers, Baker Mayfield the

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Speaker 1: number one pick in the draft, which is where Nick

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Speaker 1: Bosa might actually end up thirty three million dollar contract

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Speaker 1: if he drops to fifteen because of injury, which is possible.

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Speaker 1: You're looking at a thirteen million dollar contract. That's a

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Speaker 1: twenty million dollar difference. That's Princeton education. And he did

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Speaker 1: it quickly, thanks mom. Uh That That is the kind

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Speaker 1: of number that Nick Bosa thinks about and says, listen, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm out for a while with this, with this abdominal injury. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's a chance he could play again later in the year.

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Speaker 1: He might feel the need to be rushed back. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that could happen. If he

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Speaker 1: aggravates it again, then you're talking. You know, if it

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Speaker 1: happens in the national championship game, you're what five months

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Speaker 1: away from the draft itself. Less than that, actually, uh,

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Speaker 1: you might not be able to participate in the combine.

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Speaker 1: All of these things are things that could snowball and

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Speaker 1: could easily result in a twenty million dollar loss or more.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, when do we find the

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Speaker 1: day because we see healthy players skipping bowl games at

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Speaker 1: this point, but when do we reach the day where

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Speaker 1: the good quarterback doesn't matter? Picked the name halfway through

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Speaker 1: the season says, you know what the scouts have seen me.

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Speaker 1: I'm projected top pick. I'm done, I'm walking. I think

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Speaker 1: we're close to that now. I mean you mentioned bowl games.

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Speaker 1: Denzel Award last year at Ohio State skipped their bowl game,

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Speaker 1: went number four in the draft. You know, collected a

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Speaker 1: million million dollar contract. Um Joey nick Bosa when he

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Speaker 1: got hurt, was leading the country I think in sacks

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Speaker 1: and maybe even tackles for a loss. He was having

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Speaker 1: a monster year, and you're right, there may be in

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Speaker 1: the future and maybe the near future, someone who has

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Speaker 1: a huge start to the season a couple of games realizes, hey,

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Speaker 1: my draft stock might never be higher than the guy

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Speaker 1: walk away. Let me read a statement from Ohio State

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Speaker 1: coach Urban Miner. He says that I was hopeful that

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Speaker 1: Nick would be able to return to play again for US.

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Speaker 1: I know this was an extremely difficult and emotional decision

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Speaker 1: for Nick and his family, and I wish him well

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Speaker 1: as he moves on to get himself healthy and ready

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Speaker 1: for his next chapter. That's that's the fear of every

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Speaker 1: college coach out there, that it was not an extremely

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Speaker 1: difficult and emotional decision. It was actually a very sound,

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Speaker 1: simple decision that I don't need this college football thing anymore.

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Speaker 1: And and we should mention that the official reason why

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Speaker 1: he's leaving is because he wasn't going to play again

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Speaker 1: this year. Uh So that that's kind of what what

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Speaker 1: Urban is referencing there. It does make you wonder, though,

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Speaker 1: as we talk about, you know, risk benefit analysis, if

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Speaker 1: a future we're college football players are getting a salary

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Speaker 1: of some sort or making some money for being on

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Speaker 1: the field, if that might change you know, skipping hole games,

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Speaker 1: the way people evaluate whether or not they should be

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Speaker 1: playing in games, going to practice, etcetera. Um, if there

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Speaker 1: was a financial and extra financial reason for them to

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Speaker 1: be playing in college, that might change the analysis. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm coming to you because you are currently in college

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Speaker 1: right now. So your thoughts about this? Do you think

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Speaker 1: if more players kind of follow suit with us, that

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Speaker 1: it would lead to the n c double A bringing

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Speaker 1: in more incentives for people to stay and play. I'm

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Speaker 1: amazed that it hasn't happened already. I don't say they

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Speaker 1: wanted to give anything. My fear is that the scholarship

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Speaker 1: offers soon come with some kind of contingency you have

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Speaker 1: to play. Yeah, that like that, that this gets rescinded

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Speaker 1: if you, if you're not on the on the field

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Speaker 1: for free games, pay the price. Who knows. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: put that past the n c A for sure, But

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Speaker 1: I don't think this will be the impetus that leads

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Speaker 1: to two players being paid. I think we're kind of

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Speaker 1: on that process already. But that will happen by a

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Speaker 1: court somewhere, a judge telling them they have to do it,

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Speaker 1: not because they've they've somehow seen the light and realized

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Speaker 1: that that it's better for them to do it that way.

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Speaker 1: But we had another topic that he wanted to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah to Zone. UH and and Canelo Alvarez UM coming

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Speaker 1: on the heels of of HBO announcing that they were

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Speaker 1: getting out of boxing. Golden Boy Promotions, Oscar de la

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Speaker 1: Joya's promotion company, which reps Canelo Alvarez, who in the

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Speaker 1: post Mayweather Alva Mayweather Pacquia World is probably the biggest

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Speaker 1: pay per view drawing boxing. Uh. They have a new deal.

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Speaker 1: It's a big one. It's it's a ten fight deal

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Speaker 1: worth a reported three hundred and sixty five million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Carlos State money and Alvarez's next ten fights will all

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Speaker 1: appear on the Zone. And for folks out there who

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Speaker 1: aren't familiar with the Zone, it's a digital streaming platform.

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Speaker 1: It is not on TV at all. UM, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's an over the top platform. It launched in America

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Speaker 1: in September, you know, so it's pretty relative. It's it's new. UM.

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Speaker 1: But their plan in the US, at least right now

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Speaker 1: is combat sports. You know what. What's funny is that

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Speaker 1: old man bar saw this for the first time and

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Speaker 1: it's spelled d Yeah, so I thought, you know it,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was dazzing. I'm like, what is this? Well, nobody,

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Speaker 1: nobody who doesn't know would look at that and say

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Speaker 1: just own. Yeah the first time I had seen it

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Speaker 1: and like, who, well, this is part of performed group

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Speaker 1: they split, but worth mentioning the brain now in charge

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Speaker 1: and what's what's this title? Executive chairman of before whatever.

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Speaker 1: You may have heard of John Skipper. So you may

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Speaker 1: have heard of John Skipper. You know he's the brain here. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that they chose combat sports and they're thinking

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Speaker 1: a lot of money investment in it. Uh. The r

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Speaker 1: O I in the pay per view world is pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Now you wonder if CANNELO does that on the O

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Speaker 1: T T world. Yeah. So the choice to do combat

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Speaker 1: sports was they wanted to get into America. They had

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Speaker 1: a big war chest, and all the rights here are taken.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can't just buy up NFL rights, you

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Speaker 1: can't just buy up MLB rights. Uh. They decided that

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Speaker 1: they were going to, instead of nipping away at the

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Speaker 1: periphery of a lot of sports, dive really hard into one. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And they chose boxing so that there was a billion

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Speaker 1: dollar partnership joint venture with match Room Boxing, which is

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Speaker 1: the UK's biggest, biggest promotion. Now there's a you know,

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Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty five plus million dollar deal to

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Speaker 1: get Canelo. Instead of Canelo's fights on HBO, which cost

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Speaker 1: sixty seventy dollars, all of his fights will be part

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Speaker 1: of the Zone package. That's one of the reasons he

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Speaker 1: did it was so that his fans don't have to

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Speaker 1: fork over. He tried to make it about the people.

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Speaker 1: I'm not buying, Okay, I don't, but I do think

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Speaker 1: that if you're a boxing fan and you love boxing

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Speaker 1: up and down, that the new digital world is probably

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Speaker 1: a better one for you. Right now, almost all of

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Speaker 1: the premier boxing is being divided up between ESPN Plus,

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Speaker 1: which is what a month, and to Zone, which is

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Speaker 1: said if you love archery, if you love badminton, if

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Speaker 1: you love college sports, the Olympic sports rather, if you

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Speaker 1: love sort of the niche sport, oh, the O T

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Speaker 1: two world is great for you because you can bypass

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Speaker 1: the bundle and just get pretty much everything you want.

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Speaker 1: And who'd have thought that boxing would be the first

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Speaker 1: sport to almost entirely seamlessly would have been in. If

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Speaker 1: you're so used to paying seventy bucks for the one

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Speaker 1: big fight, even if it's on an annual basis, what's

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Speaker 1: the eight nine bucks a month? So totally. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you're getting so much more, you do the math

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Speaker 1: out you pay for a ninety dollar Mayweather fight and

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Speaker 1: a seventy dollar Canelo fight every year, that is more

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Speaker 1: than the cost for your zone, and you're not more

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Speaker 1: but almost the cost of your zone and your ESPN

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Speaker 1: plus Well, the reason why an old here history lesson here,

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Speaker 1: why boxing was so great and took over Marciano reference

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Speaker 1: every time. Know, every time we sug one of the

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Speaker 1: best movies in television back in and he's like, I

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Speaker 1: came in for this. My professors did not tell me

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Speaker 1: about this. He's like, hold on, you got to ask him.

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Speaker 1: Does he know about Coming to America? Have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen Coming to America movie? I've seen parts coming to that?

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Speaker 1: I know, what is that Velvetta work? That's okay, it's

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Speaker 1: you're gonna sing so glow man, there you go so

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Speaker 1: soon smooth, the funny thing, the funny thing She's done

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Speaker 1: to so many times. But that was the first till

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Speaker 1: She's done it so many times, it's just not on me.

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Speaker 1: The reason before fix skid through te boxing because of

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Speaker 1: you know, the dimensions in the ring was great for

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Speaker 1: television back in the fifties because you know, the camera

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Speaker 1: back then far less exactly, so you have the static

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Speaker 1: shot for the most part and it was much easy

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Speaker 1: to follow. That's why boxing took over big time on

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Speaker 1: TV back in thefties. History lesson Michael bar So for you,

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Speaker 1: if your the zone, being you know, being the go

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Speaker 1: to stop for boxing is obviously a priority, and they're

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Speaker 1: they're making steps to get there longer term. They want

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Speaker 1: to be the thing that every sports fan goes to.

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Speaker 1: Are we buying this strategy as the way to become

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Speaker 1: a potential and money talks obviously, but but to become

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Speaker 1: a potential future home for NBA content. May know where

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Speaker 1: I stand on this. I've said it a million times.

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Speaker 1: Just like sports, on the court is the ultimate meritocracy.

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Speaker 1: As David Stern used to say, if you can play,

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Speaker 1: you can play. It's the same thing here. If you show,

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Speaker 1: if you have on your channel, on your O T T,

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Speaker 1: on your platform, on your whatever it is, if you've

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Speaker 1: got the goods that people want to see, they will

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Speaker 1: find it. That's it. If you have if the Zone

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Speaker 1: has the money to get the best content that people

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Speaker 1: want to see. Yeah, just like I find True TV

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Speaker 1: once a year during the n c A tournament, I'll

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Speaker 1: find it if I want to see it. But this

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Speaker 1: is almost going the reverse way, right. The Zone isn't

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Speaker 1: starting with the content sports content outside of boxing. Boxing,

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Speaker 1: They're starting to They're dominating one tiny world and then

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Speaker 1: at some point ideally going to some other rights holder

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Speaker 1: and saying, listen, we have x million dollars subscribers. All

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Speaker 1: of them are avid boxing fans. They're probably fans of

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Speaker 1: other sports in some capacity, right. But but the Zone

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Speaker 1: is never going to have the reach that Amazon has. Right.

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Speaker 1: So if these two groups are sitting in front sure,

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Speaker 1: likely not. But if these two groups are sitting in

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Speaker 1: front of Silver at the NBA and both with the same,

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Speaker 1: let's say the same offer, right, is the zones is

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Speaker 1: this boxing core enough to maybe get their foot in

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Speaker 1: the door versus a lot of these other bigger digitals

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Speaker 1: in a world where the main rights buyers, in the

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Speaker 1: world where they I'd love to give me a movie

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Speaker 1: theater field where the main rights buyers are in discussions

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Speaker 1: with a lot of the digitals to kind of license

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Speaker 1: out some games. If the zone can say I don't

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Speaker 1: need the Warriors and the Celtics, I don't need that

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Speaker 1: Marquee game. But what I do need is your third

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Speaker 1: tier game on a Tuesday night, but I need it exclusively.

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Speaker 1: That's where they get their foot in the door and

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Speaker 1: then you see where it goes from there. This is

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barr, along

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Speaker 1: with Scott Sash, Nick Evan, Nobi Williams, and thank you

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Speaker 1: Owen for stopping buying my pleasure. We're here each and

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Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of money

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Speaker 1: and sports. Join us again at the end of the

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Speaker 1: week when we speak with maybe Michael's favorite guests so far,

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Speaker 1: IndyCar Champion Scott Dixon, Hot dig Any Dog. Can I

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Speaker 1: say that he was handsome? He was all right? Thanks,

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Speaker 1: Thanks Medina. So you're listening to Bloomberg Business and Sports

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio around the world and online as a

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Speaker 1: podcast where available.