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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. My name is Mac, my

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Speaker 1: name is No. They call me Ben. We are joined

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Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Michig controlled decade. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you. You are here that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. And we are recording

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Speaker 1: on breaking news this this time around the table. Right,

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Speaker 1: Let's let's start with the most recent news as we're recording.

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Speaker 1: On May eighteen, the US, the United States, announced that

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Speaker 1: it was withdrawing from the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action

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Speaker 1: or the j c p o A for those of

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Speaker 1: us who are acronym fans, it's also known as the

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Speaker 1: Iran Deal. Yeah, or the Iran Nuclear Deal here in

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Speaker 1: the States. Right. Uh, that's an easy way to explain

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Speaker 1: it in a few syllables on the evening news. And

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Speaker 1: this decision was met with pretty widespread, uh, consternation from

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Speaker 1: some of our allies and fellow participants in this deal.

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Speaker 1: I guess we're going to go into why that might be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly subject that is just rife with complexity, and

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Speaker 1: they were going to look into the history. Today, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna look into what it could mean for everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: And let's talk about the deal itself. True. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: deal was signed into effect in twenty fifteen by members

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Speaker 1: of the u n's Permanent Security Council, essentially the winning

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Speaker 1: side of World War Two, plus Germany and the EU

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Speaker 1: as its own entity, and then Iran and the United States,

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Speaker 1: which was, you know, part of the Permanent Security Council,

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Speaker 1: but there are they're one of the main actors in

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Speaker 1: today's episode. In exchange for freezing aspects of Iran's nuclear

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Speaker 1: enrichment program and submitting to intense, historically unprecedented UH investigation

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Speaker 1: programs on site in the country, Iran would receive partial

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Speaker 1: sanctions relief. This would allow the economically strapped country access

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Speaker 1: to billions of dollars, both in terms of potential billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars for trade and in terms of billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars of real world money that have been held frozen

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Speaker 1: offshore by foreign powers like the European Union and the

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Speaker 1: United States. I'm a big dummy when we say sanctions

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Speaker 1: that can mean a couple of different things. What does

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Speaker 1: it mean in this particular situation, is like a trade

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Speaker 1: like blocking, barring of trade? Great question. Yeah, because again,

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Speaker 1: for for those of us who just hear these terms

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Speaker 1: thrown around in the news, they're not often explained. So

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Speaker 1: sanctions are in general penalties for breaking a law or

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Speaker 1: an agreement. Just in general. You can give someone a

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Speaker 1: sanction yourself, should you somehow convince them you have the

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Speaker 1: authority to do it. In the geopolitical sense, however, sanctions

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Speaker 1: are part of what we would call sticks and carrots

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Speaker 1: of diplomacy. Carrot is an incentive we will give you

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Speaker 1: x amount of dollars to do what we want, or

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Speaker 1: we will give you this nuclear hardware or these chemical agents.

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Speaker 1: It is based around trade, right most of the time,

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Speaker 1: most of the time, yeah, thank god today. Military actions

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Speaker 1: can also be considered sanctions, depending on how they're rationalized.

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Speaker 1: It could be something like imposing penalties are making it

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Speaker 1: less profitable to do business kind of I mean, or impossible. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: typically when we hear the phrase sanctions apply, what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about is a genre of sanctions called economic sanctions.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned that carrots earlier. Economic sanctions are a form

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Speaker 1: of stick a form of punishment, so not enticing a

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Speaker 1: state to change its behavior, but attempting to force it

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Speaker 1: to do so. The role of sanctions in this conflict

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Speaker 1: cannot be overstated, and it's primarily due to the actions

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Speaker 1: of the United States. The United States is one of

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Speaker 1: the few countries in the world that can unilaterally apply sanctions.

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Speaker 1: They can take their toys, they can leave the playground,

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Speaker 1: and now no one else can play. That's that has

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Speaker 1: been the case for a long time, and that's a

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Speaker 1: vast oversimplification. But here's here's how it works. When the

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Speaker 1: US wants to sanction a country, it helps if they

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Speaker 1: have an alliance with other allies, But if they decide

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Speaker 1: to go it alone, they can still screw up the

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Speaker 1: entire Rube Goldberg esque thing that is international trade. Let's

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Speaker 1: say they let's say they do an economic sanction regime,

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Speaker 1: wherein they say no US based businesses, So no like Boeing,

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Speaker 1: no lock Keied Martin, Northrop grum Northrop Grumman, no financial

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Speaker 1: institutions can economically interact with a certain country or with

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Speaker 1: trades involving that country. At first, that sounds like okay,

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Speaker 1: US is leaving the game. There are more fish in

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Speaker 1: the sea, there are more badgers in the bag. But

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Speaker 1: the problem is almost all financial interactions at that level,

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Speaker 1: at some point in the chain travel through a US

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Speaker 1: financial institution, and once they do, the money stops the game,

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Speaker 1: the bubble pops, and on the ground, this means that

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Speaker 1: a sanctioned country literally cannot buy or sell certain things,

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Speaker 1: not just weapons of war, but things like medical equipment,

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Speaker 1: industrial components, you know, stuff like let's say you have

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Speaker 1: an ice cream factory and you need a large enough

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Speaker 1: UH boiler for some reason. Obviously we have not researched

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Speaker 1: ice cream factories, but but if that if that specific

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Speaker 1: component falls under this sanction, then it becomes very, very

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Speaker 1: difficult for you to buy it. So when Cuba, for instance,

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Speaker 1: had sanctions during the Cold War, UH, it was not

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Speaker 1: able to get life saving medical equipment. And that's why

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Speaker 1: if you travel to Cuba today, as some of my

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Speaker 1: contacts had recently, and you tour their hospitals, several very

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Speaker 1: important pieces of equipment in the hospital are going to

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Speaker 1: be German stuff from the fifties because that's all they

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Speaker 1: could get. The hospitals, by the way, or not air conditioned.

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Speaker 1: Just to illustrate that so, so the whole point with

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Speaker 1: this deal that that went through it was it was

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Speaker 1: very difficult for it to actually happen, and it happened

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Speaker 1: in the previous administration under President Obama. And it's if

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Speaker 1: you look at the agreement itself, they are all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things that have problems with it, at least on

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Speaker 1: that either side would say that this is kind of

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Speaker 1: a big deal. Well, that's how you know it's a

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Speaker 1: compromise exactly. No one's entirely happy. Yeah, yeah, And Matt,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. It took a long time to get

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Speaker 1: everyone to the table first and then to achieve anything.

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Speaker 1: Most of the global community was completely appalled to see

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Speaker 1: the US withdraw although under US law it is legal

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Speaker 1: to do so. Because our side of this agreement was

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Speaker 1: what's called an executive order, it was not ratified by

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Speaker 1: Congress because it's an executive order that means whomever occupies

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Speaker 1: the position of Commander in chief afterwards can just get

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Speaker 1: rid of it without without running it past Congress or

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Speaker 1: the American people. And there were there was international support

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Speaker 1: for this deal, primarily uh U s Allies, Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: and Israel. They were also the key regional rivals of Iran.

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Speaker 1: They applauded the move. They said, this is a way

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Speaker 1: to prevent nuclear war. Yeah. Well, a lot of this

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Speaker 1: has to do with these things called sunset clauses, which

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Speaker 1: were built into the agreement itself, and specifically with the

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Speaker 1: enrichment process and what which centrifugis could be used at

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Speaker 1: what time. I think there's like an eight year what

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Speaker 1: they called sunset clause where after eight years they could

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Speaker 1: then begin enriching uh uranium with this these new versions

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Speaker 1: of their centrifuges firing back up much more efficient. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But the whole idea was that the people who are

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Speaker 1: fighting against us being in this deal, we're saying they're

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Speaker 1: just using these sun set clauses to then be to

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Speaker 1: be able to achieve nuclear weapons anyway, or they're secretly

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Speaker 1: still conducting these things despite the investigations in their argument

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Speaker 1: that there's doing this to have nuclear power like we do.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's arguments. That's the thing. Everybody's argument is that we

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Speaker 1: are only pursuing nuclear capabilities to replace fossil fuels. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's since a nuclear weapon, since before a nuclear weapon

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Speaker 1: was even devised, And it's tricky because when when you

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Speaker 1: study this kind of stuff, the enrichment process for a

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Speaker 1: web in and for a power plant are identical. The

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Speaker 1: only difference is the degree of enrichment. So you just

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Speaker 1: keep going and that's that, regardless of what side you

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Speaker 1: fall on. That's a huge dilemma North Korea, for instance,

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Speaker 1: when um, when you speak with North Korean diplomats for

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Speaker 1: years and years and years, they were saying that they

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Speaker 1: were peacefully pursuing nuclear power as a means of economic independence,

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Speaker 1: not as a means of starting war. And who believed them,

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Speaker 1: No one, no one, No one would believe the US

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Speaker 1: if they said that. So right now here in the

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Speaker 1: States where stuff they don't want you to know is based,

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Speaker 1: public opinion is divided on whether this was a smart

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Speaker 1: decision to exit a critically flawed agreement and again one

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Speaker 1: that was not ratified by Congress, or a short sighted,

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Speaker 1: bellicost move to push the region and ultimately the entire

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Speaker 1: world close or to war. But let's hold on for

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Speaker 1: a second, and Rewind, Let's ask some questions. How did

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Speaker 1: we as a species get to this point. How much

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Speaker 1: does the average person in the US know about Iran,

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Speaker 1: about its history, about every single thing leading up to

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Speaker 1: this moment. I would say not very much. At least

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Speaker 1: I didn't before studying this a while back when we

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Speaker 1: touched on the Petro dollar and a couple of other

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Speaker 1: things like that. Um, so let's just jump right into it.

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts. Will go through a very quick

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Speaker 1: broad rush Iran from the beginning of time to uh.

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Speaker 1: We'll make it quick where you're not hardcore history, which

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Speaker 1: is a great show. I just want to point out

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Speaker 1: so Iran is home to one of the world's oldest

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Speaker 1: continuous major civilizations, meaning that it was never a dead

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Speaker 1: man's land after it started. You can find settlements dating

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Speaker 1: back to seven thousand BC. I mean they're not super glamorous.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a casino or something. But yeah, but

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Speaker 1: there were humans. They're living together, yes, yes, And we

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Speaker 1: have to remember everybody involved in these stories, these are

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Speaker 1: all real people. Ancient Iran was also known as Persia. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's an historic region of southwestern Asia that is kind

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Speaker 1: of located where Iran is now. It's roughly the same boundary.

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Speaker 1: The term Persia was used for centuries mainly by folks

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Speaker 1: in the West to designate just regions where people spoke

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Speaker 1: the Persian language or spoke Parsi, and what they perceived

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Speaker 1: as Persian culture predominated. But more correctly, the term Persia

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Speaker 1: applies to a part of southern Iran, which was known

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Speaker 1: as Persis or pars or Parsa or modern day Fars

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Speaker 1: and Parsa is the name for an Indo European nomadic

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Speaker 1: people who got into the region around one thousand BC.

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Speaker 1: And the first mention occurs from an Assyrian king back

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Speaker 1: in eight hundred forty four BC, So this is old.

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Speaker 1: You may recognize the historical figures Cyrus the Great. He

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Speaker 1: was the founder of the Archaemenid Empire and he was

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Speaker 1: This was the first Persian empire. It ruled a huge

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Speaker 1: swath of land, Central Asia, North Africa, the Balkans, and

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Speaker 1: the seed of power was Persepolis. This was around five

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Speaker 1: fifty to three and thirty BC. So you will hear

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Speaker 1: a lot of people say it was the first quote

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Speaker 1: unquote world empire. It was the only civilization in all

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Speaker 1: of history to connect fort of the globe. Granted, there

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Speaker 1: weren't as many people around at that time, but uh,

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Speaker 1: there were about in four b C, for example, there

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Speaker 1: were about a hundred and twelve million people. Hundred, give

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Speaker 1: or take, forty nine point four of those were member

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Speaker 1: forty nine point four million of those, excuse me, are

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Speaker 1: members of the first Persian Empire. And then there's a

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Speaker 1: huge change that affects the world and Iran today, and

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Speaker 1: that was the Arab invasion. So there's this huge misconception

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Speaker 1: that's distressingly common, and it's the following. Many people think

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Speaker 1: that Iranians or people from Iran are Arab. They are not.

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Speaker 1: May speak Arabic, but if they did, they learned it

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Speaker 1: as a foreign language. And Iran is, however, an Islamic country.

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Speaker 1: During the eighth to tenth centuries, Islam became the dominant religion,

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Speaker 1: and the pre existing dominant religion, Zeastrianism, declined, as well

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Speaker 1: as many of the other associated religions. But thankfully for everyone,

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Speaker 1: and I do mean everyone, the achievements and the scientific

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Speaker 1: progress of the previous Persian civilizations were not lost. They

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Speaker 1: were absorbed by this new growing civilization. And let's so

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Speaker 1: that's ancient run multiple invasions, not Arabs. Was was a

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Speaker 1: great empire, free Islam before any of that happened. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's fast forward to the history of modern Iran and

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Speaker 1: of course their oil industry. It starts in nineteen o

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Speaker 1: one a British speculator named William Darcy paid Iran uh

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Speaker 1: and was allowed to explore and develop their oil resources

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Speaker 1: in the south of the country. Yeah. And it was

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Speaker 1: that discovery of oil in nineteen o eight that led

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Speaker 1: to the formation in nineteen o nine of the London

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Speaker 1: based Anglo Persian Oil Company or APOC. SO. Then by

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Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, the British government had gained control over the

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Speaker 1: Iranian oil industry, direct control which it would not give

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Speaker 1: up for thirty seven years. Then after thirty five, the

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Speaker 1: APOCH was called the Anglo Iranian Oil Company or IOC.

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Speaker 1: And today it's just a good old BP. Yeah, British

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Speaker 1: Petroleum that VP down this street from you. Yeah. They're

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Speaker 1: just all about simplifying those, uh, those acronyms. I like it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They signed a sixty year agreement in nineteen thirty three

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Speaker 1: to establish a flat payment to Iran of four pounds

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Speaker 1: four British pounds for every ton of crude oil exported,

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Speaker 1: and denied Iran any right to control oil exports. So

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Speaker 1: you get your flat fee, you don't get to say

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Speaker 1: and where we're selling it. How we're selling it or

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Speaker 1: what kind of deals we're cracking. Sounds like a sweetheart deal,

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Speaker 1: we cannot Yeah, yeah, exactly, we can see there that

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Speaker 1: they're the oil was controlled not by Iran up and

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Speaker 1: to that point one all the way into the nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 1: and they were obviously getting the short end of the

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Speaker 1: stick with this deal. They like many other countries, sought

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Speaker 1: to nationalize their oil resources back in nineteen fifty. This

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Speaker 1: there directly led to a coup in nineteen fifty three,

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Speaker 1: an overthrow of their democratically elected governing structure, but not

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Speaker 1: a coup of the people, not a genuine uh, mass

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Speaker 1: of the proletariat rising or something. No, Uh, This regime

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Speaker 1: change came from outside of Iran. Yeah, exactly. There was

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Speaker 1: a prime minister who had been elected in everything. And

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Speaker 1: then of course not of course, but as we have

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Speaker 1: seen before, British and in this case, American intelligence agencies

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Speaker 1: both decided they needed to do something, and it was

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Speaker 1: mostly British intelligence contacting American intelligence and saying, hey, we

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Speaker 1: need your help with this taleho exactly, So they replaced

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Speaker 1: the democratically elected prime minister, Mohammed Mozadek with the with

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Speaker 1: this guy that's known as the Shaw. He was also

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Speaker 1: known as the King of Kings to his friends, and

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Speaker 1: I guess to himself and his friends, now you call

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Speaker 1: me the king of King. Yeah, that's like the informal name.

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Speaker 1: Ok okay, yeah, well I think it was the Shaw,

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Speaker 1: Simshaw some something to that Effectum, Mohammed Resa Shaw, this

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Speaker 1: dude ben Oh. Yeah. He was tremendously unpopular. Not an opinion,

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Speaker 1: that's a fact, Yeah, exactly. Um. You can find out

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Speaker 1: more about this whole situation that occurred during the nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty three Iranian coup if you've searched for things like

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Speaker 1: t P A j A X or Operation AJAX that

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Speaker 1: was the CIA's version, and also Operation boot b O

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Speaker 1: O T that was the secret intelligence service of the

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Speaker 1: British intelligence agencies also known as am I six, that

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Speaker 1: was their version. And so he ends up the the Shaw,

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Speaker 1: uh was it ends up being the last Shaw of Iran.

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Speaker 1: That the timing will differ a little bit, but he

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Speaker 1: would be considered active not although not an absolute monarch,

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Speaker 1: active from September one until February of nineteen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: when he was overthrown by the Iranian people and normally

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Speaker 1: you would think, Wow, that's fantastic. The people a rising

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Speaker 1: up right democracy. They are pursuing what they as a

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Speaker 1: community or as a state, consider their own will, their

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Speaker 1: own independence. However, the overthrow led to the creation of

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Speaker 1: a theocratic regime, modern theocratic regime. They are the rulers

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Speaker 1: of Iran today. So the so what we see is

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Speaker 1: a move ideologically right, uh, move to a more western

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Speaker 1: Iran under the shaw and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you get a slingshot effect when it goes when when

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Speaker 1: commune comes up to power. Did you know that the

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Speaker 1: English word check was derived from the word shaw, like

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Speaker 1: the idea of checkers and check and checkmate. I just

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Speaker 1: was googling shaw and that came out. That was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: You over there just googling shaw, just googling show baby.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna we should start calling money shaws. That's great.

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Speaker 1: It's derived from shaw from Persian via Arabic, Latin and

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Speaker 1: French and related terms of checker, chess, ex checker um

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Speaker 1: and they also originate from that word, though I don't

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Speaker 1: see the connection in the way it sounds. But shaw

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean king, and I guess the idea of you know, mate,

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Speaker 1: just a hilly as side, just to just to lighten

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Speaker 1: the mood for a second. That's that's silly, It's fine.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really smart. So now we've explored Iran

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Speaker 1: from the beginning of time all the way up until

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Speaker 1: almost night. Why don't we jump into the modern Iran,

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Speaker 1: or the more modern Iran into today. But we'll do

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Speaker 1: it right after a quick hangout with a sponsor. So

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Speaker 1: in the decades since the overthrow seven, several of several

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Speaker 1: of your fellow conspiracy realists listening live may have been

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Speaker 1: around and seen this in the news. In the decades

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Speaker 1: since that n overthrow, Iran has been portrayed as an

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Speaker 1: adversary of the West. Growing up, I I remember personally

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Speaker 1: thinking and trying to figure out as a kid if

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Speaker 1: Star Trek was making political commentary and at Klangon's were

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Speaker 1: supposed to be like Iran or something interesting. It's a

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Speaker 1: very loaded, loaded show in terms of symbols. Yeah, in

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Speaker 1: popular culture, Iran has has been the enemy several times, right,

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Speaker 1: and the primary antagonists of Iran historically have been Saudi Arabia, Israel,

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Speaker 1: and the United States, and its primary allies have been

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Speaker 1: Russia and Syria, with some European allies attempting to act

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Speaker 1: as peace brokers or being neutra role for most of us.

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Speaker 1: In the United States, Iran is presented as a hard

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Speaker 1: line Islamic theocracy and there is an elected president, but

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Speaker 1: the actual leader is the Ayatollah, who is the country's

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Speaker 1: supreme religious authority. The current supreme leader of Iran is

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Speaker 1: a fellow named Ayatollah Ali Kamini. He's been in power

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Speaker 1: since nine, ten years after the revolution. Yeah. Have you

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Speaker 1: guys seen the new season of Curb Your Enthusiasm where

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Speaker 1: Larry gets a FATA put out on him because he

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Speaker 1: makes fun of the Ayatola. Yes, it's great and he

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Speaker 1: how does he get out of it? Well that I

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Speaker 1: don't want to spoil the season, Okay, it does involve making.

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Speaker 1: He's got a musical idea called Fatua the Musical where

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Speaker 1: he plays Salmon Rushdie and that displeases the Ayatola because

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Speaker 1: he sort of makes fun of him on a late

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Speaker 1: show and that sets off the absurdity that is Curb

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Speaker 1: Your Enthusiasm. But there we do want to say, there's

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Speaker 1: not a racist representation anymore so than his typical for

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Speaker 1: Curb Your Enthusiasm, the the religious authorities that he's beefed

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Speaker 1: up with are presented as ultimately like kind of cool people. Yeah, politicians,

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Speaker 1: Well there's a real argument over catchup. I want to

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Speaker 1: say it's anyway, check it out. It's fun, and it

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Speaker 1: also gives you a little bit of insight into this

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Speaker 1: stuff through a slightly absurdist comedic lance. Yeah. Well either way,

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Speaker 1: nine until two thousand eighteen is a long day time

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Speaker 1: to be in. Yeah, And I just only bring bring

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Speaker 1: that up because the idea of a fatwa and that

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Speaker 1: this man is so powerful that he can literally snap

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Speaker 1: his fingers and then any of his followers are just

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Speaker 1: you know, your persona non grata. We can endia, And

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Speaker 1: a fatwa isn't always going to be by any means

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Speaker 1: some sort of mafia hit. They can be, But fatwa

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Speaker 1: is more like a legal opinion almost or an authoritative declaration.

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Speaker 1: So a fatwa could be recognization of a slight change

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Speaker 1: in a ritual as well. But we again in the West,

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Speaker 1: are most often going to hear of fatois as a

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Speaker 1: declaration that somebody is persona on groutus, right, But I

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Speaker 1: guess you said like you said, could also be a

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Speaker 1: change in the sort of the party line on interpretation

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Speaker 1: of religious text, right, something like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly,

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Speaker 1: And the tension that permeated the decades since the revolution.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to distill it into a single sentence or

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Speaker 1: a single example, because there was so much both on

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Speaker 1: a regional and global scale, and there was also outright

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Speaker 1: conflict such as the Iran Iraq War from nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: until nineteen this and then series of other wars, some

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Speaker 1: of which the US was involved in. Yeah, the Gulf War,

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Speaker 1: Operation Desert Storm and all that in um, I mean

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Speaker 1: in in my mind as a child growing up. That

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Speaker 1: is that's how I knew. That's the only reason I

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Speaker 1: knew about Iran and Iraq at that time through those conflicts.

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Speaker 1: Did ever I tell you I met uh, Norman Schwartzgraft,

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Speaker 1: the General. Yeah, really, yeah, I was not, uh, not

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Speaker 1: in an official capacity. I should say, I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: just like at a park, you guys. He was just

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Speaker 1: sitting on a bench and then yeah, and there and

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Speaker 1: we sat on the other side of the bench and

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Speaker 1: we didn't talk, but we passed envelopes. But that that

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Speaker 1: guy would remember was very prominent in the American public

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Speaker 1: eye during this time. What was accomplished in those wars,

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Speaker 1: It certainly wasn't the de escalation of this tension because

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Speaker 1: the Middle East has further destabilized and right now in

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Speaker 1: distrust runs extremely high on all side to the conflict,

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Speaker 1: because what we're looking at is the escalation of a

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Speaker 1: proxy war in the Middle East. So UM. One thing

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Speaker 1: that is a an open secret it feels weird even

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Speaker 1: called a secret, is that the government of Iran funds

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Speaker 1: militias in other countries. In Syria, in Lebanon, there's his

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Speaker 1: Black and some of these some of these organizations are

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Speaker 1: considered by the West to be terrorist groups, but to

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Speaker 1: their supporters, they're considered to be freedom fighters, which is

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Speaker 1: another definition or contradiction that we run into often. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and speaking of freedom fighters, you may recall the US's

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Speaker 1: involvement with the Iran contra scandal, where we were illegally

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Speaker 1: selling weapons to Iran without Congress knowing, without anyone else knowing. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the whole the whole situation with US

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Speaker 1: selling weapons to Iraq as well during the Iran Iraq War.

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Speaker 1: So there's just the United States and this region. It

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Speaker 1: just has this history, man, where we we tend to

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Speaker 1: do some shady stuff, right, right, And maybe that's the

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Speaker 1: fog of war. Maybe there's something larger at play, because

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Speaker 1: one of the questions that we consistently run into when

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Speaker 1: we talk about why there's intervention in one state or

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Speaker 1: one region over another, right, one one of the things

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Speaker 1: we run into is whether there is something greater at

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Speaker 1: play behind the curtain. So consider, for instance, uh countries

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Speaker 1: that are resource poor or at least comparatively not not

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Speaker 1: as fortunate in terms of the resources. Consider all the

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Speaker 1: all the countries that are struggling with poverty, with human

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Speaker 1: rights abuse, with brutal authoritarian dictatorships. Why is the US

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Speaker 1: not there? Why is the West not there? For some people,

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Speaker 1: for the cynics in the crowd, the answer is resource based.

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Speaker 1: In Iran's case, they argue that this intervention is specifically

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Speaker 1: due to the oil that was discovered way back in

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds. So what's going on with Iran

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Speaker 1: and oil? I just gotta say, I don't think you

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Speaker 1: have to be cynical to have that few. I think

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Speaker 1: you just gotta have your eyes open, bro, That's all

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. And the guys if you're if you just

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Speaker 1: to set the scene. Matt's eyes right now are wide open. Um. Well,

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Speaker 1: just here's a quote from the World Bank. Ready, Iran

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Speaker 1: ranks second in the world, second in the world in

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Speaker 1: natural gas reserves, and fourth in the world improven crude

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Speaker 1: oil reserves. Like just okay, that's massive. This this world

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Speaker 1: still to this day runs on oil. And just knowing

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Speaker 1: that that exists there, all that crude oil underneath the

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Speaker 1: feet of each and every Iranian human being that I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I think that tells a lot about the

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Speaker 1: current situation and past situations. Agreed, there's a now passive

428
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: amount of energy in the ground there that is not

429
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: under BP's control, that is not under the control of

430
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: a Western energy conglomerate or a or a state actor.

431
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: Right and what it could be? Ben, but it was

432
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: once upon a time, could be again remember the good

433
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: old days. Did we mentioned in seven Russia and Britain's

434
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: secret treaty to divide Iran? Okay, well we'll get to that.

435
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: Russia is their ally, I remember. So we've got this

436
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: quick look at the broad strokes of Irani and geopolitical

437
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: history and current climate. As we said, vastly oversimplified, but

438
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: we wanted to hit some of those big points. It's

439
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: easy to see how Iran's antagonists would not want the

440
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: country to have any sort of nuclear capability, regardless of whether,

441
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: like to Knowle's point, regardless of how much they say

442
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: it's just for peaceful purposes, there's not really a way

443
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: to stop it, right, right, you can't. There's not a

444
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: different process. Yeah, but we're not gonna like stop making

445
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: nuclear power. It's not like we're standing in line to

446
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: give up all this stuff. It's true. We still have

447
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: the second largest number of nuclear warheads we be in

448
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: the US, not Matt. It's funny. I actually looked it up.

449
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: We only get our power from nuclear It's true. It's true. Well,

450
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: we also have a very powerful fossil fuel based industry,

451
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: and they have a lot of legislative hooks. And speaking

452
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: of legislative hooks, I guess, hang ups, it's very difficult

453
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: to build new nuclear power plants in this country. Oh yeah,

454
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: very difficult. I actually used to cover that was my

455
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: beat when I was a reporter for Georgia Public Radio,

456
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: and I covered the new um reactor. They were trying

457
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: to build a plan Vogel and Augusta, And it's still

458
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: hung up in red tape. It's it's it's been years.

459
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: They just can't make it happen. So all the ones

460
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: we have are aging and very very old legacy reactors

461
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: and need extensive infrastructure repairs. Right, this is interesting, you know,

462
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: just as an aside. And there's another there's another question here,

463
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: what what's the motivation for this general historical tension? What

464
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: went wrong? What's happening now? Why? That's that's the big question.

465
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: Why we'll answer it after a word from our sponsors.

466
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So oddly enough, not being

467
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: sarcastic here it is kind of odd. You will hear

468
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: continuing and contradictory explanations for the historically aggressive actions of

469
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: modern Western powers against Iran and for Iran's actions in

470
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: the region. In the case of the first oil exportation agreements,

471
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: Darcy remember him from earlier, did pay for the concession.

472
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: But it was, as as you guys said, a sweetheart deal.

473
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: And just a few years later, by nine seven there's

474
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: that secret treaty we were mentioning. Russia and Britain already

475
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: signed a deal to divide her On up between themselves

476
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: without consulting the Iranian government. So Russia said, we want

477
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: the top half, we want more control of Central Asia.

478
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: We're still playing the Great Game. And Britain said, cool,

479
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: we want the bottom half because we have oil there

480
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 1: and we consider it ours the great Game. By the way,

481
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: if you don't know what that is, listen to our

482
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: episode on the Great Game. It's a great game, man,

483
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: between Russia and uh well, I was gonna say Europe,

484
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: but the United Kingdom mostly. Yeah, oh man, that was fascinating.

485
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: I think that, you know what, I think some of

486
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: those guys on the Russian side, I think they really

487
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: did believe in magic. I think they did believe they

488
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: were practicing occult stuff. I mean, you kind of had

489
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: to in the time, and it was really the sign

490
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: of the times, you know what. You're probably correct, and

491
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: speaking of the times, in World War One, Iran was

492
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: again a battle ground for rival imperialist powers it during

493
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: World War One, ran said, hey, we're neutral, we're staying

494
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: out of this. So the British forces invaded to guard

495
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: their oil lifeline because you know, their naval power and

496
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: they needed this fossil fuel to be the engine for

497
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: their war effort. Yeah. I remember all the oil at

498
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: this time in Iran is controlled by Britain, right, but

499
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: they're still getting a flat rate, I believe, right to

500
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: Knowle's earlier point. The the thing here is we see

501
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: some of the first contradictions occurring early on. So we

502
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: said we we mentioned Britain's obsession with Iranian oil, right,

503
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: or Persian oil as they called it at the time.

504
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: The Western Powers in World War One advanced and i'd

505
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: eological argument one that is probably going to be familiar

506
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: with a lot of people today. They said, we're fighting

507
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: World War One because we want to free the Middle

508
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 1: East from this outdated Ottoman rule, from the Ottoman Empire.

509
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: That's feudalism, they said, that's that's garbage, juice, that's trash. Yeah,

510
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: and we wanted on to be independent and free and

511
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: of its own rule, right, that's what they said. Yeah,

512
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: that's that sounds that sounds real. Yeah, people should be free, right. Yeah,

513
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: we're just looking out for your best interest, Ron, and

514
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna help you protect your oil. Be a shame

515
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: of something happened all that oil. Right. So, for people

516
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: who are critical of Western actions in Iran over the

517
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: past century, to them, this narrative, this story is one

518
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: of repression, of controlling resources and extracting them for the

519
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: benefit of a foreign power. For those who are supportive

520
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: of intervention in Iran, not just what has happened recently

521
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: or what may be happening soon. Uh, the issue comes

522
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: down to a couple of publicly declared beliefs. Saudi Arabia

523
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: believes that if Iran is not economically isolated, not militarily crippled,

524
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: it will strengthen its influence beyond its border. It will

525
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: use its proxy groups, its military organizations to disrupt the

526
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: status quo, to take economic resource control away from Saudi

527
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: Arabia while also propagating Shia Islam in areas that are

528
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: under Sunni Islam control. So one of the things that

529
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: Saddam Hussein was worried about when he was in control

530
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: of Iraq was that the Shia population of Iraq would

531
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: rise up and destabilize the state. Yeah, and just so

532
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: you've probably heard this in the news or somewhere. Groups

533
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: like Hezbollah are one of those proxy groups somewhat controlled

534
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: by Iran. Yeah. Absolutely, And this becomes an ideological battle

535
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: in many respects, a truly ideological battle because from the

536
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: Saudi perspective, there there's a struggle against disruption and instability.

537
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: And this is a huge concern given the chaos that's

538
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: already consumed. Iraq is eating Syria as we speak, and

539
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: plagues Yemen. Saudi forces are already heavily entrenched in Yemen,

540
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: and you know, you don't hear much about it on

541
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: the news. It is interesting how Yemen was all over

542
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: the news for what a month or two, maybe not

543
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: even that long, a couple of cycles, and then it

544
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: went away. But the fighting hasn't stopped. The fighting hasn't

545
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: stopped just because the camera stopped rolling, right, It's something

546
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: we would all do well to remember. The second thing,

547
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: and I should say these are not first and second

548
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: in terms of any kind of priority or hierarchy. The

549
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: second thing concerns the government of Israel, which sees Iran

550
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: and as an existential threat, meaning that they don't see

551
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: Iran as a some sort of rival nation that might

552
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: compete in trade. They see it as a country that

553
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: has prioritized eliminating their country. It's a ticking time bomb. Yeah,

554
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: just so right, Like how various Israeli prime ministers have

555
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: said Iran is one year away from making a nuclear bomb,

556
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: or like the way we worry that like sun flares

557
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: are gonna fry us all in our sleep. Yeah, I

558
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: mean there's I'm not getting Yeah, it's because it's really

559
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 1: it's not a question of a small conflict. It's they're

560
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: thinking in terms of every man, woman and child. Yeah,

561
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: and it's an ancient theological disagreement essentially. Was what that

562
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 1: boils down to? The the tension there, Yeah, it was.

563
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: It was around long before the United States, long before

564
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: the oil was important at all, long before uh, laser

565
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: disc Definitely. I think I had a misstepped there. You

566
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: were actually held a laser disc. Yeah, it's the weirdest

567
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: thing in the World's like a giant gold LP And

568
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: to flip it you have to flip it part way through.

569
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: And Steve said, like, what the hell You'm getting an

570
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: expensive thing a movie and I have to flip the movie.

571
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, No, I worked up about this is a

572
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: legitimate gripe nol I had. I had people under the stairs,

573
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: and it ruined the flow, the cinematic flow film. I'm

574
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: all about flipping a record because that you sequence the

575
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: record and I have like sort of like a little

576
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: moment to pause and reflect movies. Now, So what did

577
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: these people under the stairs do for you to keep

578
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: them under the stairs? They were cannibally zombie things. They were.

579
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: So there was a couple that was religious. They were

580
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: religious extremists, and if children did not adhere to their rules,

581
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: the children they adopted, they would mutilate them and forced

582
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: them to live in this cartoonishly large basement where they

583
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: became candle. And there was a gimp suit. I remember that. Actually,

584
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: as it turns out funny, you should mention this. It's

585
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: actually meant to be an allegory for the US, his

586
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: relationship with Iran whoa gimp suit? And all my friends, wait,

587
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: are you being seriously? I'm not being serious. I'm sure

588
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: we could worm our way into making that work. We

589
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: get there. Actually, it turns out all West Craven movies,

590
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: especially the Nightmare on Elm Street series, are complex um

591
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: allegories for geopolitical conflicts. That's right, so right to us,

592
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: right to us with the name of West Craven Film,

593
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: and one of us will explain to you exactly which

594
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: geopolitical conflict that is an analogy for. What if? What

595
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: if it might take us a while to figure it out?

596
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: What if we ask people to send us there the

597
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: movie and why they think it's an allegorical geopolitical thing,

598
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: because I would love to get their ideas, or just

599
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: send us your entire dissertation on you know, which which

600
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: film and what which conflict it represents. Yeah, I can't

601
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: speak for everyone, but I will. I love reading dissertations

602
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: when you all send them in. We got a great

603
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: one regard Arthur Conan, Doyle and Sherlock Holmes from our

604
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: pal Simon Workman. Or do it verbally by calling our

605
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: eight hundred number one three three st d w y

606
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: t K. We will play it on the show. We swear. Yeah,

607
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you, assuming that the

608
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: world as we know it still exists when you are

609
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: hearing this. So back to the idea of this existential threat.

610
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: It's not to say that destabilization is not a problem,

611
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: but not existing is a huge problem right from their perspective,

612
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: from anyone can't Yeah, So as so long as Iran

613
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: exists in anything close to its current political state, the

614
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: government of Israel believes Iran will spend massive amounts of time, weaponry,

615
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: and blood attempting to eradicate it entirely from the earth.

616
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: Threatening disputed regions that Iran considers to be its own

617
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 1: territory like the Golden Heights, right, which were Syrian territory

618
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: for a while, or threatening to influence areas that Israel

619
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: later hopes to incorporate into its territory, for example uh

620
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: in future peace settlements with Palestine. Right. In the US,

621
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: this is often this is often reported, right, and it's

622
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: reported around the world because that is the belief. And

623
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: here in the U S at least, we often see

624
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: this cited as a as something that applies to the

625
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: States as well. Right, and you will see the chance

626
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: of protesters saying death to America or death to the West,

627
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: or calls from Iranian hardline politicians saying we need to

628
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: eradicate this nation. In the past, some Western powers have

629
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: portrayed their interventions in Iran not as a mission for

630
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: resource extraction and economic control, but as another theater in

631
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: the Great War of ideas, the Great War between capitalism

632
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: and communism. So there was always a reason to go

633
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: into Iran. Those reasons have changed over time, but there

634
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: has always been some sort of reason. And we have

635
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: to ask ourselves are we talking about is it really

636
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: about hearts and minds, it's really about survival. Is it

637
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 1: about ideology or is it about as uh Smedley Butler

638
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: would say, is it about being an economic hit man?

639
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: Is it about extracting and controlling the means of wealth

640
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: and production? Yes, that's that's what a lot of I

641
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: mean that. That is what a lot of people say,

642
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: including people who support intervention in Iran, like fans of

643
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: real politics, sort of the uh the Kissinger descendants, they

644
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: will say, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely communist, definitely communism mainly oil.

645
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: But also yeah, definitely communism mainly oil. Though that's that's true.

646
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: So for critics on either side, here's the weird party.

647
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: They both believe. There's plenty of stuff they'd want you

648
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: to know about this conflict. So for people who see

649
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: this as a matter of ideological threats, those opposing further

650
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: harsh sanctions and military incursions, the quote unquote moderates, they're

651
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: the same thing as anybody who's actively supporting Iran. So

652
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: for many of these people, if you say, well, these

653
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: sanctions are counteractive, for they're they're not going to have

654
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: the attended effect. What they're hearing is that you're saying,

655
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: I'm a member of Hezbollah because there's extremism there. It's

656
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: the old If you're not with us, you're against this

657
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: mentality that we see in so many ideological arguments, right,

658
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: and this idea hinges on the concept of Iran as

659
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: a hardline theocracy. But hey, guess what it is. I

660
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: mean and again this is not the people, this is

661
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: just the government, right. Uh. The fear here is that

662
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: arising Iran would inevitably become a nuclear power and exert

663
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: brutal control over the region, possibly uh, discrimin nading against

664
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: non Muslims or Muslims who were not their branch, who

665
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: are not from their branch of Islam, right, so Sunni

666
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: Muslims for instance. Yeah. Basically it would just be a

667
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: brand new Persian empire from the old days, one that

668
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: would attempt to take over Saudi Arabia, erase Israel, and

669
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: turn the other countries in the area into puppet states,

670
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, with some kind of ten pot uh dictator

671
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: or dare I say a shaw In other words, they

672
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: think Iran would do to other countries the same thing

673
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: that Britain did to Iran in the past. And that

674
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: is a I would say, a good fear for those

675
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: which had done harm to it in the past. It's

676
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: a it's at least a it's good to at least

677
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: imagine that because you one does reap what one shows. Well,

678
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: it's also understandable. It's not like it would be a

679
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: sudden plot twist. Yeah exactly. You know if you're writing

680
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: that out in Revenge movie, that's what would happen, which

681
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: I think was which Nightmare on Elm Street is that?

682
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: Is it Dream Wars sdream Warriors? Yeah, I think it's

683
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: Dream Warriors when you're watching. For people who see this

684
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: as purely a matter of resource control, the Iranian oil reserves,

685
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: specifically the energy reserves or natural gas reserves, etcetera. Are

686
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: too important globally to not be used, to be not

687
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: not be part of this great supply chain. But for

688
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: people who opponents of Iran, uh, that resource is also

689
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: too important to be used to the advantage of this state.

690
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: And many of the people who believe this is entirely

691
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: matter of resource economic control are opponents of Western intervention

692
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: in Iran. But here's the thing. There's people who are

693
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: opponents of Western intervention in Iran. They are not opponents

694
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: of intervention in general. You gotta remember Russia, right, is

695
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: a great ally of Iran. They also attempted to cut

696
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: it and have can take over it. Uh, it was

697
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: a long time ago, and buddy, don't worry, it was

698
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: a little more in this century. We're cool now. We're

699
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: cool now. But this what we're saying here, what we're showing,

700
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: is that the pat explanations that you are receiving on

701
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: the news, if you're tune into broadcast stuff, if you're

702
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: listening for four or five minutes on your way home

703
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: to something, they're either going to be about a very

704
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: specific event, such as the eleven minute speech on May

705
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: eighth withdrawing from this agreement, or they're going to um

706
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: or they're going to pass over a lot of the

707
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 1: history that led to these moments. These these kinds of things,

708
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: these conflicts never occur in a vacuum. There's not a

709
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: leader who wakes up, has a bad day, finds out

710
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: the palaces out of Ovaltine, and then decides to you know,

711
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: bomb Muzbekistan. Yeah, but you know what you will hear

712
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: when you're listening to those a lot of the times,

713
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: what's that You'll hear someone from the Rand Corporation or

714
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 1: some other think tank, come on and tell you exactly

715
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: what's going on in their in their sphere, their analysis right,

716
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: and it's and it's usually one of these exact stances.

717
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: So what is Yeah, we have we still not done

718
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: an episode on think tanks. No, I don't think so,

719
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: No do you do? You guys have a favorite think tank?

720
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. Would you consider counsel and foreign relations

721
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 1: in some way of think tank? Sure? Yeah, not a

722
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: not like a white House think tank? You know what

723
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: about like the Southern poverty loss in Airison like them? Hey,

724
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: that's a you know what, I would consider that a

725
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: think tank. To be honest, I think think tank is

726
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: kind of I think I think tank is kind of

727
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: an amorphous concept. I don't quite fully understand what makes

728
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: a think tank. It's like an umbrella term, almost right,

729
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: because they do a lot of different things, like a

730
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: work group. Yeah yeah, pay a bunch of very well

731
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: informed people to get together and well informed each other, consults,

732
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: policy wonks, experts, professors. Well, we want to hear what

733
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: your favorite thing tanks are? Two or the most dangerous

734
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: ones ran Europe. There, But at this point we have

735
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: to we have to end an episode with no real conclusions.

736
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: We don't know what's going to happen in the Middle

737
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: East over the next few months, over the next year,

738
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: but we do know that currently we no matter where

739
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: we live, no matter where you're listening to this from,

740
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: unless you are in space currently and planned to stay there,

741
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: in which case, high and thanks for checking out the show. Yeah,

742
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: and also good on you. That's that's that's a difficult

743
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: life to leave. Yeah, zero gravity is very bad for you.

744
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,439
Speaker 1: But as long as you are living on the same

745
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: ball of mud and fire with the rest of us,

746
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: you and Matt and Noel and Paul and I are

747
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 1: all in the middle of an extremely dangerous and fragile time.

748
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: They already destabilized Middle East may well become the starting

749
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: point for World War three. I know that sounds hyperbolic.

750
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: I know that sounds alarmist, and I know people say

751
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: that about like everything that's ever happened. Well, but maybe

752
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 1: it's already maybe it has already become Yeah. I read

753
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: something recently, uh where a commentator said they had the

754
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: increasingly creepy feeling that they were living through a future

755
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: Wikipedia paragraph titled events leading to the war. But it

756
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: doesn't it You're right that you're saying that everything feels

757
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: like it could be that increasingly, so I would say

758
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: it feels like that. And again, they don't happen in

759
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: a vacuum. Here's where we are, as we're as as

760
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: we're recording this, uh, Israel and Iran are firing directly

761
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: at each other's stuff through Syria, right and Iran publicly

762
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: stated that if the deal collapses, just because the US

763
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: pulled out, by the way, doesn't mean it's going to collapse,

764
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: just severely weakens it that They said that if the

765
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: deal collapses, they're going to stop holding up their end

766
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: of the bargain and they will resume enrichment activities, to

767
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 1: which Saudi Arabia immediately said, well, if Iran resumes nuclear

768
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: enrichment activities, we're gonna assume they're making a bomb, and

769
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 1: that means we're going to get a bomb too. Israel

770
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: right now, for anyone who doesn't know, officially, has a

771
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: stance called strategic ambiguity when it applies to nuclear weapons.

772
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: They have never stated that they have a nuclear weapon,

773
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: but they got some. But it it is barely an

774
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 1: open secret that they that they do. Even NPR today

775
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: mentioned Israel being the only major nuclear power in the

776
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: region right and the United States does likely have nuclear

777
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: weaponry positioned around there. Uh. No one knows what the

778
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: Russian submarine um boundaries are, how far out those nuclear

779
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: subs go. But what what we do know is that

780
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: if a military conflict escalates, the US is well positioned

781
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: to exert control outside of the borders. But invading Iran

782
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: would be a blood bath. And you can look at

783
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: a map that the three of us have all seen

784
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: off air. You can look at a map of military

785
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: bases in the Middle East and how they ring Iran.

786
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: US military bases. They're there through the Strait of Hormones,

787
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 1: which I think we cover in the Petro Dollar there

788
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: through Central Asia. They're ringing the boundaries of the country.

789
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: And the saul means that if Iran, perhaps with outside assistance,

790
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: like a figure like a q Khan who gave Pakistan

791
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: the bomb, if Iran has outside assistance or independently creates

792
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: or even gets closer to creating a bomb, than in

793
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: short order, there could very easily be not one but

794
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: three nations in the Middle East with nukes and with

795
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: millennia old conflicts and and waiting surrounded by subs with nukes,

796
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 1: surrounded by subs with nukes, uh, surrounded by military basis. Yeah,

797
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: and this there's a big question here though if and

798
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: it goes back to North Korea as well, like, if

799
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons are so dangerous in terms of relationship with

800
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: other countries, why would someone pursue them? Well, I think

801
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: that we see a great example of this with the

802
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: current negotiations with North Korea. For the first time in

803
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: along I'm North and South Korea came together and actually

804
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: began having talks. And then the United States is now

805
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: going to be meeting with North Korea, and you know,

806
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: they're allegedly the discussions will be about disarming even North

807
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: Korea and stopping their nuclear capabilities, but they're coming to

808
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: that table with nukes. And just being able to sit

809
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: down for negotiations with a nuke, I think creates a

810
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: much more powerful position than if you might be getting

811
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: some nukes. That's a dangerous position. Can we talk for

812
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: a second, just to as we wrap up why the

813
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: current administration is so opposed to the Iran nuclear deal,

814
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: why it's such a bad deal? Yeah, quote I was

815
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: doing quote fingers. Yeah, there's a there are a couple

816
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: of thoughts about that, and supporters of the current administration

817
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: see it as following through on a campaign promise. While

818
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: campaigning for the office of the presidency, Donald Trump cited

819
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: the Iran deal as the worst deal he'd ever seen.

820
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: He also said that he understands it more the anybody else. Yeah,

821
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: than than any anywhe else. Like He's done a ton

822
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: of research on it, and the it seems to me

823
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: like it's more. He just means he's done a lot

824
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 1: of deals. He's uniquely qualified to dissect and understand deals. Well.

825
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: He has some generals in his ear that are telling

826
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: him about these sunset parts of the deal and saying, hey,

827
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: this is really dangerous. Um, this isn't gonna work. They're

828
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: still gonna make it. Supporters of the deal, including former

829
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: President Barack Obama, who signed the executive order, saw it

830
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: as a way to buy time to de nuclear rise

831
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 1: or Iran or prevent it permanently from acquiring nuclear weaponry.

832
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 1: Opponents of the deal and cluose generals that you mentioned, Matt, say,

833
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 1: all we're doing We're not buying time for ourselves. We're

834
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: giving time to a to a belligerent government that is

835
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: that is sure gonna shake hands and play nice at

836
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: the table, but then when they go act, they're going

837
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: to make a bomb, and there we're not really stopping them.

838
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:11,919
Speaker 1: And there was a um there was cooperation, international cooperation

839
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: leading to the Trump administration's announcement, because you'll remember, just

840
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: before he announced there pulling out of the deal, the

841
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: media and at least here in the US released a

842
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: story that showed Israel I believe had acquired some documents

843
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: that they said indicated Iran was not holding up its

844
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: end of the park. And those things have been tossed

845
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: back and forth by policy walks regarding their import or

846
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: their veracity, but that's that's ultimately it is the idea

847
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: that the deal didn't completely cut off nuclear activity at

848
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: the budget I see. And yet there are still supporters

849
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: and people that are remaining in the deal, like allies

850
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: of ours, that are sort of disappointed that we are

851
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: making this movement exactly. And I think at least Obama

852
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: came out and have this having been his show getting

853
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,720
Speaker 1: this thing put together. Um said, it was mainly about

854
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 1: creating a sense that we're not going to follow through

855
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: with our commitments, and that could cause destabilization in terms

856
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: of our relationships with others and the expectation that we

857
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: will just you know, turntail at the at the last one.

858
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: That's when it suits us. That is the huge that

859
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: that is the huge problem with the precedent being set

860
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: because look, other countries will have experts who know about

861
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: how domestic US politics work, and sure they will understand

862
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: the legality of this contradiction, but it also violates the

863
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: concept of keeping one's word as a country, and this

864
00:55:56,239 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: will make things tremendously difficult going forward in various aspects

865
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: of international policy. UH. One thing that's getting a lot

866
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: of play now is the UH successful or seemingly successful

867
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: negotiations that are starting with DPRK or North Korea. And

868
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 1: they may d nuclearize, UH, they may not. It's it's

869
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: impossible to predict the future with full accuracy, but it

870
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: is entirely is entirely a beneficial thing for rival world

871
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: powers like China and Russia to be able to say, hey,

872
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: we may not be perfect, but if we agree to

873
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: agree with you that we'll do something, will actually do it. Yeah,

874
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: And that's a that's I mean, that's a dangerous thing.

875
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: So we're going over our time. Mischian control is probably

876
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: getting a little well eredate with us. And this is

877
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: this is a scary, scary subject, and it's tremendously controversial.

878
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: But if we end on anything, we should we should

879
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: end on the most important part to remember. The most

880
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: important thing to remember in this entire episode is that

881
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,720
Speaker 1: in Iran, in Israel, and Saudi Arabia, and the United States,

882
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: the people and the government are not the same. They

883
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: often do not hold the same beliefs as their leaders.

884
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: The nation of Iran, the nation of Saudi Arabia, and

885
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: Israelity guid states. It's not one big army of people

886
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: who dress up in uniform and can't wait to kill

887
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't look like them or doesn't you know,

888
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: have the same opinion of what makes a good pizza.

889
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: Just imagine a single teacher in every single one of

890
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: those nations that wakes up in the morning, gets in

891
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: their vehicle whatever it is, gets to work, works, goes home,

892
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: goes to bed, gets back up, gets in their vehicle,

893
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: goes to work, and just does it over and over

894
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: and over again. They're all human beings. Yeah, they wake

895
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: up in the morning just like us. They hate traffic,

896
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: just like anybody's in traffic. Pants One leg at a

897
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: time like people say humans do. Yeah, they have ridiculous

898
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: in jokes and crushes and friend of me is they

899
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: probably like some of the same music that you do,

900
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: because music is everywhere. Chances are they enjoy cheese. Yeah.

901
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: They probably think your country's leaders are kind of loony tunes.

902
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: And unless they are Russian, the odds are that they're

903
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: not too impressed with their own leaders either. We say

904
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: that because Putin as a massive approval rating officially, and

905
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: they all believe that they are the good guys. So

906
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: what do you believe, folks? Is this a conflict of

907
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: self preservation? Is a resource control? Is it a matter

908
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: of ideology? Hearts and minds and and freedom? And what

909
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: does freedom mean in this situation? And how does freedom

910
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: for one group affect freedom for another? These are great questions.

911
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer. Yeah, well that's for that.

912
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: You know, we're crowdsourcing this, Yeah, I think we have to.

913
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: So what do you think? Write to us on Twitter

914
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: or Facebook where we're conspiracy stuff. You can find us

915
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: on Instagram, can or see stuff show. If you want

916
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: to give us a call again. Our number is one

917
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: eight three three S T D W Y T k

918
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: call that number right now, leave us a message. You

919
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: might get it on the air. Yeah, and if you

920
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: want to, if you want to really up the gravitas

921
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: of your phone call, use one of those voice disguisers

922
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: that pitches your voice. Now, that would be badass. Oh yeah,

923
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: please do that. So, if you don't want to do

924
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: any of that stuff, just send us your opinions about

925
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: this show or any other show, your suggestions for new

926
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: episodes that we should cover, or just really tell us

927
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: about your cat. That would be great too. We are

928
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: conspiracy at how stuff works dot com.