WEBVTT - The Deal With Doulas 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.600 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from house Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:14.000 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.799 and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there. 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:23.639 And this is Stuff you Should Know, the podcast Childbirth Edition. Yeah, 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:28.760 we we were trapsing into more territory. What does that mean? 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.200 I don't know. I mean we've done two on you know, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:36.440 feeding babies, done female puberty. Uh, this will this will 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.880 get into childbirth a little bit. So yeah, we're not afraid. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.600 I don't care. Yeah, I guess that's what I'm trying 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.680 to say. You can be a male doula. You can. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.400 Although I this is the only article I ran across that, 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.239 and did you find anything about that anywhere else? I mean, 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:58.760 it happens. It's just super rare. It happens because I mean, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:04.920 we'll go ahead and spoil it. Generally, Uh, doulas are well, 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.840 let's just get into this. Generally dulas or women who 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.679 have already had a baby. Yes, not even just women, 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:13.600 but women who have had a baby, so they can 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.759 really know how to help another lady have a baby. Yeah. Yeah, 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.880 and this is actually so this this is an ancient thing. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.880 That's kind of come back around full circle. And even 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:28.240 the names Doula is a Greek term used way back 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.559 in the classical Greek days when a woman giving birth 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.400 would have female servants attending to her during birth, helping 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.200 her with it, um probably feeding her some grapes, waving 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.080 palm fronds on her, that kind of thing. Um. So, 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:48.000 doula means female servant or female slave, depending on who 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:54.160 you're talking about. And after you know, ancient Greece, fellow 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.680 of Rome and the Roman Empire fell, and all of 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.440 civilization took this weird course through about at all women 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.880 were helped by other women while they were giving birth 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:11.200 basically up until about the first third, first half of 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:17.080 the twentieth century in the West, where hospitals entered and 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.200 all of a sudden, it was just the mom giving 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:24.480 birth surrounded by a bunch of nurses and doctors. Is 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.359 that true? Yeah, because I could see scenarios where there 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:34.920 were women in the birth room helping along. Uh. I 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.440 think once you started to get into hospitals and the 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.840 physicians in the hospital starting asserting their authority more and more, um, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:48.399 especially through drugs, like I saw that. Um when when 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.800 hospitals kind of took over the birthing processor, took responsibility 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.360 for it from the family and from midwives, and moved 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.600 it into the hospital. They used to administer a lot 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.079 of sedatives as part of the birthing process as part 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.840 of labor. You know, you could understand why they would, 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.680 but then there are all sorts of um complications from it, 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:12.680 problems from it, So they stopped giving um sedatives as much. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:17.080 And about that time, women who were giving birth started 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:18.919 to like kind of come out of it and look 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.520 around and say, whoa, it's just me and you guys 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.320 in here. I need some family members in here. And 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.440 at the time, like if you were a dad, you 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.119 were not in there. You were not in the delivery 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.119 room at all. You were out in what was called 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:36.640 the stork club, um, handing out cigars, maybe pacing um. 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.440 And the reason why it was because to the doctors involved, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.280 it was just another medical procedure, right, so you're not 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.440 gonna have rando's who have nothing to do with the 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.000 actual procedure in the room during a procedure. They treated 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.480 childbirth the same way. But women started to say, no, 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.839 I need more than just you people who I've never 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.800 met before, really attending to the birth of my child, 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.200 and so dad started to come in and then more 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.520 family members and then now doulas have have um definitely 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.280 kind of come back like they were originally. That's my 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.480 understanding of the whole thing. Yes, so doula's uh, we 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.080 haven't even said what that is yet, and that would 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.000 probably help clear it up if you don't know. Dulas 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:19.280 are um people, like we said, generally women but not always, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.080 who are childbirth coaches. They coach you through the process. 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:27.000 They will, depending on the service they offer, will will 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.720 come on before obviously you give birth and kind of 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.680 prep you for what's going to happen. And this I 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.400 mean it kind of depends on when you're dula will 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.599 come aboard in the process, but at the very least 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.480 they will help you in the delivery room and they 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.640 are your advocate to kind of coach you through this 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.760 whole thing. And that term actually started in an article 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.320 in nineteen sixty nine by a woman named Dana Raphael 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.320 and then later on in a book in nineteen seventy 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:59.159 three called The Tender Gift Breastfeeding, And that's when she 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.479 brought this term and back and said, uh, you know, 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.919 we're gonna start calling these women dulas, and it's gonna 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:10.000 be a real job, right And and I think at first, 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:11.599 what was the name of the woman who brought it back, 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.760 Dana Raphael. So she had like a pretty good idea 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.600 that was actually ahead of its time. When doulas really 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.440 started to come into use and come into their own 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.960 as a profession was in the eighties and the reason 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.840 why they came into wider use was because hospitals were 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:31.200 going to c sections a lot um. C sections went up. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.839 From nineteen seventy four point two percent of live births 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.200 in the US involved c sections sixteen years later, in 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.160 six a quarter of live births in the US involved 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.000 c sections. And there are a lot of complications with 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:49.960 c sections um and so you could have your husband 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.080 in there, you could have your mom in there, you 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.000 could have friends, but they're just there for you. One 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.760 of the first services that doulas started offering was to say, WHOA, WHOA, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.640 does she really need that C section? I are you 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.799 sure about that? Or are you just doing it because 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.520 you can charge more money. I think that was overstating 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.440 exactly the interaction they had, but that was the role 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.640 they had, was to basically provide a barrier between a 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.120 doctor who wanted to just give a C section because 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.800 he wanted to go home and the mom who really 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.760 didn't want to c section. Yeah, and and know it's 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.160 not just c sections there. Your advocate there, your birth 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.520 advocate UM to to make sure or at least as 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:33.599 best they can to try to ensure that the birth 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.200 plan that you feel best about is the one that 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.600 you end up with. Things always change, of course, and 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.480 ADULA would never put you in danger by insisting on something. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:46.039 In fact, they can't. But they're there to speak for 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.800 you on your behalf because as a mother in labor, 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:51.800 you're going through a lot on your own, so it's 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.720 nice to have someone that is just there to do 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.400 that job. Yeah, And and UM is coming from a 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:04.160 place of empathy and sympathy and most importantly experience. Like 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.160 you said, most dulas have had children of their own, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.680 but they've also, after a while, attended other births too, 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.760 so they know what they're talking about, they know what 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.200 to expect, and they can tell you what to expect, 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.000 which can make the whole process easier I would imagine 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.960 for any mother giving birth. Yeah, it's definitely gained popularity 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.320 in the two thousand's. Um. I think I tried to 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.040 find more recent statistics than two thousand twelve, but I couldn't. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.440 But in two thousand twelve there were six percent. And 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:37.040 this is in the United States. It's a it's very much. Yeah. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.560 I know it does happen all over the world some 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.520 but it's sort of an American thing. Uh, six percent 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.400 of people in twenty twelve years to doula versus three 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.600 percent in two thousand six. And in that same survey, 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.480 twenty seven percent of people said they would they would 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.720 like to use a dulah. So, uh, you know, at 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.040 least they're they're wishing or hopeful that they can. Yeah, 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.960 that was question eight. Would you like to use a dulah? Yeah, 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.800 said um. And so if you get the impression that, 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.680 like a doctor would not really prefer a doula to 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.680 be in the labor and delivery room, you you've kind 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.760 of read between the lines there. Especially at first, the 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.880 medical community saw doulas as they were starting to really 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.880 kind of come into use in the eighties, as basically 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.680 meddling busybodies who could potentially put their patient's life in 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:33.480 in jeopardy, right, But then Duelas of North America was 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:38.120 found founded DONA. It's like the first DULA licensing UM 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.600 body Certification and Training and Licensing body UM and they 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.400 were founded. It was founded by medical professionals, which kind 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.320 of created a bridge. It bridged the gap or kind 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.440 of got smoothed over the rough feelings between the medical 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.040 community and the DULA community. And it also added a 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.960 real air of legitimacy to the profession of of being 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.520 your dulah. Yeah, And the the impression I get now 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.520 is that, UM, if you have a good dula who 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.800 is good with people, which is UM ideally what your 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.840 dula is. If you're do listen, not a people person, 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.040 that's probably not going to be a good thing. But 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.560 the idea I get is that doctors and nurses like 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.800 having duela is there now because they can just concentrate 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.640 on They don't have to be the ones uh providing 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.120 emotional empathetic support, although they can still do that they want. 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.280 They can just concentrate on the medical aspects of it, 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.920 and they know that they have a trained, uh hopefully 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.280 licensed dulah. And we'll get into that later on hand 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.560 to sort of say, you know what I don't have 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.040 to deal with that part of things. You're in good 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.480 hands with this, Dulah, and I can just concentrate on 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:51.439 the medical parts now, all love Doulah. That's right. And 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.280 one of one of the other reasons are functions that 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:58.280 doulas provide you kind of hit on is that they, um, 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.560 they provide a serv that hospitals used to provide through nurses, 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.000 right where if you had a nurse in a in 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.200 a labor and delivery room, they they wouldn't spend as 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.160 much time or or give you as much attention to say, 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.520 like your your mom would or a friend or your 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.680 husband even but they gave you a lot more early 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:21.400 on than they did. As surveillance of patients moved to 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:25.160 electronics right to where somebody could just kind of sit 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.720 at the nurses station and check on everybody and they 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.360 didn't have to go into the rooms. And now you 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.559 nurses were charged with watching even more people at once, right, 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:40.280 so the personal attention dropped dramatically um as as um 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:44.439 electronic surveillance of patients increased, and the duela is kind 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.080 of came in to fill that role as well. Yeah, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:48.840 like they're they're sitting in the room with you and 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:53.520 hanging out. They don't get called in like twenty minutes 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.280 before you give birth. They're there with you, you know, 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.320 sometimes days and weeks beforehand, coaching you and what to 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.160 expect and how to how you're going to go about 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.560 this and what your plan is. And then on the day, 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.320 like even if dad is in there and the husband 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.800 is in there providing support, that's great, But the doula 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.920 is just that extra step and that extra measure of support, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.800 um that is super knowledgeable about what it's going to 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.800 be like, where the husband might not exactly you know, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.480 be be able to lend the most insightful ear there, 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.319 you know what I mean. Uh, So you want to 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.240 take a break, Let's take a break, and then we'll 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.600 come back and talk about what to expect when you're 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:58.679 expecting to work with a doula. All right. So, uh, 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.880 here's a misconception some people get. Um, some people think 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.720 that dulas are are authorized or trained to give birth. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.559 That is not true. They don't deliver babies. Uh, they 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.280 don't perform any sort of medical procedures. They don't put 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.079 an ivy in your arm, they don't work the heart 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.840 rate monitor. Uh. Most times, they don't even work for 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.840 the hospital. You have hired them independently, and again they're 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.960 just there to coach you. There not even midwives. Midwives 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.480 can deliver a baby, right, Yeah, they're they're not allowed 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.760 anywhere near the medical stuff. But they need to know 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.680 what the medical stuff is so that they can say, well, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:38.719 this is what they're about to do or this is 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.520 what they're suggesting right now, and here are your options. Um. 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.120 And then also when they're administering the medical stuff, which 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.959 can be pretty uncomfortable, pretty frequently, I would imagine, um, 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.040 the duela is there to kind of tell the mom 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.800 what to expect them to comforter in all sorts of ways. Yeah, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.680 and maybe not even offer advice, like I think. The 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.719 idea is that adula will lay it all out there 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.640 so you can make an informed decision and not necessarily 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:07.559 say well, if I were you, this is what I 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.120 would do. Well, yeah, that's a that's a slippery slope 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:11.960 right there, because then all of a sudden, if things 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.200 go wrong, you can say, well, the dula told me 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:19.880 to do that, and the DULA was like, I'm I'm toast. Uh. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.199 Dulas have to be great listeners. We already talked about 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.520 the the empathy piece. They have to be very empathetic 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.760 and they will, like I said, start meeting before birth 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.400 to answer any kind of questions come up with that 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:36.200 birth plan uh and really listen a lot to the 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:40.320 wife and the husband so everybody is on the same page. Um. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.080 And like I said, on the day, things can change. 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.280 But going in you generally want to have a pretty 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.880 good idea of everything from medications you might want to use, 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.000 if any, to uh to where you want to have 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.600 the baby. But doula can come on board and kind 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.280 of explain if they're knowledgeable, which hopefully they are, about 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.640 the hospitals around you. Uh and maybe even help you 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:07.679 pick out where you're gonna give birth. Yeah. And I mean, 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.880 if you already have an idea of what you want, 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:11.840 the dula can you know, kind of tell you how 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.840 to make that happen. Or if you have no idea 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.080 what you want, the doula can also tell you some 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.360 other alternatives that you might not have thought of. UM. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.520 And I saw a Parents Magazine article about dula's. They 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.480 laid out what basically what you can expect from the 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.640 average DULA for the dula's fees um one to two 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:34.600 in person prenatal visits and then access to the dulah 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:40.520 for follow up questions through email or phone calls, UM 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.160 their full attention in presence during your labor, and then 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:49.000 sometimes frequently I get the idea UM a follow up 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.040 visit in at your house after the baby comes home. 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:55.960 That typically if you hire a dula, this is this 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.640 is about the average you can expect to him. There's 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:03.240 definitely a lot of um differences. There's some will give 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.240 you a little more, some we'll give you a little less, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.400 some will charge more, some will do it for free. Uh, 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.840 it's just all over the place as far as you 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:12.840 know what you're actually going to shell out and what 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.360 you're going to get from adula. But but for the 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.320 most part, you the duel is going to have met 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.520 you before you give birth, and then the doula will 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.280 be there throughout the whole labor and delivery process. Yeah. 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.520 And it says in this article that there are specialists 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:35.480 dulas like antipartum doulas and postpartum dulas and labor dula's 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.520 UM that if you want an antipartum doula to be too, 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.120 if you want more than those two meetings, you might 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.040 want to hire someone who will be with you for 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.440 several weeks beforehand, or if you want someone postpartum to 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.560 be with you to coach you through breastfeeding or you know, 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.680 changing diapers or just any of that kind of coaching, 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.120 you can hire someone to do that. But I get 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.120 the sense that dula's generally will sort of uh, work 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.120 with you on whatever kind of plan you want, right. 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.600 It may make cost little extra, but UM, I get 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.480 the sense of ave dula wouldn't say like, Nope, you 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.600 get two meetings and that's it. It might be like, no, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.520 I'll come in for a third and fourth meeting. It'll 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.640 be an extra of this much money. Um, and I 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.360 can hang with you for a week or two afterward 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.480 here and there. UM I found I think it was 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.880 through a BuzzFeed article. I stumbled upon a there's a 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:29.720 huge rift in the doula community actually, um between the 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:34.920 typical traditional approach to being a dula, which is, uh, 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.440 I'll work with you on a sliding scale for how 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.200 much you can afford, or this is my fee, but 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.320 I'll throw in an extra visit just to you know, 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.440 make you feel like you're getting your money's worth, or 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.920 I'll do it for free. I just want to help 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:54.880 you because dona's um mission is that a doula for 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.680 every every mother who wants one, Like every mother should 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.360 have a dula basically, right. And then there's this other 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.760 group called pro do la and there they can't stand 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:10.280 dulas who who charge less than like a decent amount 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.119 for their services or do it for free. They actually 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.040 call uh dulas who who do this for free oxytocin 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.919 vampires Like they're just there to to bask in the 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.480 reflective glow of this this amazing experience that the mother 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.800 just went through, the parents just went through. Um. And 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:32.240 they're really kind of kicking other duelas around and and 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.800 they're they're kind of bullies. It's in a really weird way. Um. 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.520 But there's like this big debate over whether doulas are 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:46.280 undervalued or um underselling themselves. But I, I mean, I 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.320 definitely get the idea that every woman who wants to 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.879 have a dula should be able to have a duela 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.439 regardless of her income. You know, that makes sense to me, 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.639 like a pro bono for for people that don't have 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.240 as much money. Yeah. On the other hand, I also 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.120 get that if you are a duela and you're doing 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.480 your job really well, then yeah, you should expect to 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.920 be paid. Um. I think there's a happy medium. I 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.399 don't think it has to be like Nope, this is 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.879 the price, and anybody who goes underneath it should be 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.280 ostracized from the DULA community. Yeah. The other thing about 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.440 dula's another misconception a lot of people think is that 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.280 it's just some hippie dippie thing that if you don't 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.600 want to if you only want to have like a 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.000 natural childbirth, then you get the doula in there, and 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.600 that they're not there for anything other than that. And 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.359 that's not the case. They they are there to support 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.720 you in whatever kind of birth you want to have, 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.640 whether it's a home birth or water birth, or whether 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.919 or not you want to get an Eppord dural or 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:48.120 be loaded up on every pharmaceutical they offer mothers in labor. Uh, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.440 they're they're just to have knowledge of all that stuff. Um, 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.120 so you know what you're getting into. And then so 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.560 during labor, this is where this is where the doula 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.000 shines right there there to um help with alternatives to 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.200 to pain treatment. Right. So again, they can't administer any 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:06.879 kind of drugs or anything. I would guess that they 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.119 could even get in trouble for giving you an advil um. 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.240 But they can do other things like they can um 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.920 massage you in ways that you had not ever heard 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.719 of before that helps with labor pains. I came across 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.000 this one technique where they pull on a couple of toes, 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:29.439 um specific toes, and it helps actually UM move the 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.040 labor along if you're if you have a slow labor, 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:36.560 there's needing techniques, they're stroking techniques, UM pressure around the 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.680 bottom of your feet. There's all sorts of stuff they 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.200 can do at various times throughout the labor and delivery 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:46.320 process that can help alleviate the pain that you're going through. UM, 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.320 and that's one of the big roles that they played 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.080 during labor. Yeah, when my kid was born, it was 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.280 I was shocked at how many people were in the room. 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.600 First of all, how many oh Man Baker's doesn't I 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:07.760 mean Emily and I birth mom obviously our adoption counselor 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.359 who was a licensed duelist, so she really served that 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.040 function for the birth mom, which was really a great 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:20.720 great plus. UM the doctor, I guess the I'm not 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.680 even sure what the roles are what their technical titles are. 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.959 But um, the doctor came in when it was go 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.600 time and basically just check things out and said, well, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.600 I think it's go time. And then he stepped out 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.000 of the way, and these two nurses came in there 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:40.400 and ninety seconds later there was a baby. So it 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:43.320 was and and those were so it was two nurses 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.920 that that was probably like there was probably at least 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.800 twelve people in that room. That's a lot of people. 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:54.160 It was crowded and fast and surreal and weird and amazing. Uh, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.040 even even weirder. They brought in carrot top to cut 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.960 the cord, but no, Emily cut the cord. Emily actually 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:02.639 helps sort of deliver in a way because you know, 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.359 they like to bring in uh. I guess you know, 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.000 in a in a regular biological birth, that would be 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.320 the husband probably uh in there saying hey, do you 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.960 want to help hold the legs or do whatever. In 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.360 this case, it was Emily, and I just took a 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:23.200 respectful position, uh by the birth mom's head, uh, sort 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.359 of looking looking down that way. I was like, you 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.240 know she was She was like, you can go wherever 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:30.600 you want to go. But it's like, you know, I'll 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.040 just hang right here, right, And Emily's like, that's right, Yeah, 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:35.600 I just I wanted to be there, and you know 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.040 I was. I was helping support her as well, uh, 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.000 holding her hand and patting her on the head and 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.720 all that all that nice stuff. That's cool, man, Yeah 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:45.520 it was. It was amazing. Did I ever tell you 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.240 the story for when my niece Mila was born and um, 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.000 my sister in law was giving birth and she let 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.680 everybody in the in the labor room. I was surprised, 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.240 you can have a party in there. Yeah. And um, 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:03.520 when she really was going into she was delivering, Um, 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.199 I stood back behind this curtain, right and um, the 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:09.800 doctor comes in and walks past me and kind of 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:11.359 gives me a nod, and I hear him go to 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.480 the crowd. He's like, you know, there's like some guy 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.639 standing behind that curtain right, Like, yeah, he's supposed to 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:22.560 be there. He's the he's the word creeper, right exactly. 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:24.800 I'm like, Okay, I've heard enough here. I'm going to 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.639 the next room. Uh all right, well, let's take another break. 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.040 Now that we've shared our stories, we'll come back and 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:33.840 talk a little bit about how you become a duela. 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:57.240 Right for this? All right, Chuck. So if you wanted 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:01.800 to become a duela, um, basically you're you start in 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.359 training at age three, you're sent off to Europe to 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:07.679 apprentice at the one do list school in the world 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:10.440 and they make you eat a lot of magic cake, 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:13.320 and then when you're sixty you get to actually start 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.960 out on your own. That's that's exactly right. Okay, Well, 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.320 before you decide to become a duela, you need to 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:22.240 give a lot of thought on what you're going to 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.600