Speaker 1: I do Part two.
Speaker 2: I'm back.
Speaker 3: It's your celebrity mentor and single gal, Kelly ben Simone.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited today because I'm going.
Speaker 3: To chat with a writer who's been featured in the
Speaker 3: Huffington Post, Vogue, Oprah Daily, and she's got a monthly
Speaker 3: column in play Girl magazine.
Speaker 1: She's a woman.
Speaker 3: Behind the viral TikTok account where she does woman on
Speaker 3: the street conversations with real men called anthropology.
Speaker 1: You cannot make this up.
Speaker 4: It's Holly Sulm Hey, Holly, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm well, we got the memo. We're both wearing blocked.
Speaker 2: Of course, all the all the cool little girls are all.
Speaker 3: The cool girls. Yeah, how are you excited to meet you?
Speaker 3: I'm I'm Kelly ben Simone. I I know that you're
Speaker 3: your next model because you're really gorgeous. So we're not
Speaker 3: going to talk about modeling.
Speaker 1: But we are.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to meet you too.
Speaker 5: I've I've see I've watched you on TV. It's so
Speaker 5: great to meet you. I'm a fan.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm oh my god, I'm a fan
Speaker 3: your Oh my god, your TikTok is Literally I was like,
Speaker 3: I was I just moved into a new apartment and
Speaker 3: I was I was listening to them and I literally
Speaker 3: is almost crying. I was like, this girl is amazing.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you are so funny.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Let's get into it, Holly, because you get a lot
Speaker 3: to talk about.
Speaker 4: I'm sure to say, yeah, I want to know everything.
Speaker 3: So you're making this really really interesting content which is
Speaker 3: thought provoking on the Internet and just literally on the street,
Speaker 3: simply asking men why they are the way they all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how did you start making this content?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's a very simple question, but ilicit's very
Speaker 5: strong reaction.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: I'm a writer and so I was just like writing
Speaker 5: about my life very quietly, behind the scenes. Yeah, And
Speaker 5: my lit agent was like, you should start, you know,
Speaker 5: putting yourself on camera more build up your social media profile.
Speaker 2: It'll help to sell your book. So I started like.
Speaker 5: Kind of talking to the camera about what I was
Speaker 5: writing and about what I was going through, and by
Speaker 5: about about my girl life, being a girl, being a woman.
Speaker 5: And it got like inundated with men, Like I got
Speaker 5: all these male followers and they just they started sort
Speaker 5: of infiltrating all of my socials, my sub stack and
Speaker 5: my Instagram my TikTok, like it was just all men,
Speaker 5: and I was like, ah, why are all these men here?
Speaker 2: Like right, this isn't it's not for you. But after
Speaker 2: a while I realized.
Speaker 5: Like there's something here, like if I appeal to men,
Speaker 5: maybe I should.
Speaker 2: I should do something with this, I should lean into it.
Speaker 5: So I thought it would be funny to make a
Speaker 5: show for men. And then I was like, people just
Speaker 5: want to see themselves represented. That's what we're all interested in.
Speaker 5: So I thought, I'll just interview men about being men
Speaker 5: and it'll be kind of like a funny, a funny bit.
Speaker 5: So it started kind of just as a joke, and
Speaker 5: like I just started going around town like with my
Speaker 5: phone and like a bad microphone and just being like.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm asking men, why are you like this?
Speaker 5: And asking them dumb questions about being men, and it
Speaker 5: just kind of like weirdly took.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: I love when things happen organically and you can just
Speaker 3: really tell that you were literally just walking up to
Speaker 3: these guys and being like, tell me why you won't
Speaker 3: date an old woman, Like tell me why you're you'res
Speaker 3: in your late fifties and your age range is like
Speaker 3: twenty two.
Speaker 5: To thirty what so much of this stuff too, I
Speaker 5: just like stumble upon, like someone like the age rage range.
Speaker 2: Things started because like one guy said.
Speaker 5: Something about, oh, I was dating this woman she was
Speaker 5: younger than me, and then I was like picked up
Speaker 5: on it.
Speaker 2: It was like why do you date younger women?
Speaker 5: And then that just turned into like a question that
Speaker 5: I regularly asked, like what are.
Speaker 2: Your age ranges on your apps?
Speaker 5: And then I'm like why, And then you know, it's
Speaker 5: just feeds off of itself.
Speaker 3: I love the age range so much because like the
Speaker 3: way these guys respond and like, listen, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 3: I love men, and I like find I'm a twin brother,
Speaker 3: like I fend find men to be really fun. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I just was shocked at how they how they responded.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just was like, I was shocked.
Speaker 5: I love men too, so like people think I'm like
Speaker 5: some angry feminists, I'm a feminist and I'm angry, but
Speaker 5: I'm not mad really like at men in general. Like
Speaker 5: I love men, but I have had, you know, as
Speaker 5: a woman, a lot of weird experiences with them my
Speaker 5: whole life, as we all have. And I just was
Speaker 5: surprised by how like men treat me a certain way
Speaker 5: in the world with no cameras, and I was surprised
Speaker 5: that it actually seems like amplified when the cameras are on,
Speaker 5: Like they're almost emboldened to be even weirder and like creepier.
Speaker 5: So like, you know, getting hit on by a man
Speaker 5: is not that crazy, but the fact that they're willing
Speaker 5: to like do that on camera. I think a lot
Speaker 5: of a lot of men too, like think I'm just
Speaker 5: like a kid with a camera, Like they don't really
Speaker 5: Now they're starting to catch on because people really are.
Speaker 2: Seeing the show, but it's a lot of people would
Speaker 2: be like.
Speaker 5: Oh, is this your school project, And I'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 5: it's still a project.
Speaker 1: That way, I'm dead you know, that is hilarious.
Speaker 3: So I mean, I just I still just I loved
Speaker 3: what you just said about how like being you know,
Speaker 3: having the camera, like you know, it's kind of amplifying their.
Speaker 4: Reactions and you can see that.
Speaker 3: I just feel like, you know, these online conversations like
Speaker 3: they they are that you're having.
Speaker 1: Are just like eye opening.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're just you are you know, You're you're
Speaker 3: saying things that women are thinking and I just feel like,
Speaker 3: what do you think.
Speaker 1: Just gets under men's skin? Like what is it?
Speaker 2: So I'm sure sure you've heard the phrase.
Speaker 5: A man's greatest fear is being humiliated, and a woman's
Speaker 5: greatest fear is being like, you know, murdered by a man.
Speaker 5: And I think this somehow like taps right directly into
Speaker 5: the vein of that is a lot of these men
Speaker 5: think I'm like intentionally trying to humiliate men, or they're
Speaker 5: surprised by my line of questioning that I'm coming up
Speaker 5: to them. They think maybe, oh, this girl's going to
Speaker 5: like flirt with me, and then I'm like, why are
Speaker 5: you like this? And like they think it's they think
Speaker 5: I'm trying to embarrass them, and they just something in
Speaker 5: them short circuits. It's not there's so many men that
Speaker 5: are so cool and that are in on the joke
Speaker 5: and that they think it's so funny and they're fans
Speaker 5: of the show, but they're not the ones that go viral.
Speaker 5: Like I put those videos up too. I'm like, you, guys,
Speaker 5: there's plenty of cool guys out here just you know,
Speaker 5: taking it all in stride, but yeah, the ones that
Speaker 5: really blow up are the ones that get super upset
Speaker 5: and like offended by.
Speaker 3: Right, how about the It's like it's I think you
Speaker 3: have it pinned on TikTok And it's like the guy
Speaker 3: is like, you know, just in his like late twenties
Speaker 3: and early thirties, and he seems to be really really
Speaker 3: offended by you, but then he's like smiling at you
Speaker 3: and asking questions back. So I'm like, I'm like, is
Speaker 3: he I was like, is he flirting? Oh?
Speaker 2: Is that the guy? That's like, why the would you
Speaker 2: ask me that? That guy? Yeah, he gets very upset. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 5: Again, like it's it's it was the strangest thing because yeah,
Speaker 5: when I walked up to him, he was totally friendly,
Speaker 5: and then I said that, and it was like I
Speaker 5: could see like a cloud, the storm cloud come over him,
Speaker 5: Like his whole demeanor changed and he was so filled
Speaker 5: with like hatred and rage towards me in that minute,
Speaker 5: like I had really pushed something deep deep within him
Speaker 5: that So it's a little scary sometimes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean definitely, especially like you're in public and
Speaker 3: they're just kind of like getting like all a nerve.
Speaker 1: You're like, it's just a TikTok video.
Speaker 3: You're like you're not trying to like short circuit him.
Speaker 3: What's the biggest takeaway that you've had after speaking to
Speaker 3: so many different men, Is there just like one continuous theme,
Speaker 3: like what is it that they are they're they're saying?
Speaker 3: Because there they are saying something. I heard it many times.
Speaker 3: I'm just wondering what are they angry? Are they just
Speaker 3: mad about being men? Are they lonely?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: I think it's all of the above.
Speaker 7: I mean I think, yeah, I don't know where this
Speaker 7: like thing. I do think there's something to do with
Speaker 7: like the manosphere, like these men that have started podcasts
Speaker 7: talking about how they're mad at women for whatever, for
Speaker 7: not wanting to sleep with them, or because I think
Speaker 7: there is, you know, some entitlement that comes with being
Speaker 7: a man and living in a patriarchal society.
Speaker 2: And I think.
Speaker 5: To have their place being questioned is like it's really
Speaker 5: messing with some people that I think thought maybe it
Speaker 5: was going to be easier or that they should just
Speaker 5: like yeah, that that life should be easier and they
Speaker 5: should get things more than they are getting them.
Speaker 2: But I am always like confused when a guy's like
Speaker 2: men don't know their place anymore. I'm like what do
Speaker 2: you mean?
Speaker 5: Just like be like just so y'all, don't I know
Speaker 5: it's so hard, just like do your be cool?
Speaker 1: Just do you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not about being men or women.
Speaker 5: It's just like about living your life, like why is
Speaker 5: there a place in society?
Speaker 2: But basically my whole.
Speaker 5: Point is I think that's kind of like a like
Speaker 5: a manisphere rhetoric is like men being confused by their place.
Speaker 4: It's like, man, do you think too?
Speaker 3: It's because like in the workplace they're now they're being
Speaker 3: challenged with you know, with women and with all these
Speaker 3: different variables. And then now like you're asking this like
Speaker 3: very this question that you know men men recognize themselves
Speaker 3: by the cars they drive, the work that they have,
Speaker 3: what's in their bank account.
Speaker 4: You know, that's how they identify themselves. So do you
Speaker 4: think that like you're just.
Speaker 1: Like who are you? And they're like what?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: They haven't. I mean a lot of but I don't
Speaker 2: think it's just men. It's people.
Speaker 5: Like a lot of people just aren't terribly introspective. So
Speaker 5: I think it like really throws someone off their game
Speaker 5: when you're like asking this very like open ended, kind
Speaker 5: of abstract question and maybe they're confused, and so that's
Speaker 5: like frustrating. They just go immediately to frustration and rage
Speaker 5: because they don't know how to answer it. But yeah,
Speaker 5: I think men do you know, so many people do
Speaker 5: define themselves sort of by their external world and what
Speaker 5: they have and how much money they have.
Speaker 2: And women, now are you know, we are we.
Speaker 5: Had to work harder to get to where we are
Speaker 5: and we are killing it. So I think that is
Speaker 5: like intimidating for some guys.
Speaker 1: I have a question to you this.
Speaker 3: There's this concept of the male loneliness epidemic. Like I'm like,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, wiremen alone, Like, what do you mean
Speaker 3: they're lonely?
Speaker 1: Go outside? Like you're the you're guy, you know, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: talk to me about that. What are your thoughts on
Speaker 1: this epidemic.
Speaker 5: I think it's just like I think it's probably real
Speaker 5: among some men.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of men.
Speaker 5: Are lonely because they're just like they grew up just
Speaker 5: playing video games and they don't know how to like
Speaker 5: interact with other people, and they have just like poor
Speaker 5: social skills and they're spending all their time listening to
Speaker 5: you know, andrew utate instead of like going out into
Speaker 5: the world. And meeting people, and yeah, it's it's people
Speaker 5: not learning social skills. But I think people are lonely.
Speaker 5: I mean women are lonely too. Everyone's lonely. We are
Speaker 5: all having to learn how to live in this society
Speaker 5: where we're like more comfortable behind a computer screen.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: And I think that's a direct correlation from COVID. We
Speaker 3: were alone, people were on their screens.
Speaker 1: Dating and apps are bigger.
Speaker 4: So this podcast is all about, you know, finding love
Speaker 4: in your chapter two?
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think and do you think that women
Speaker 3: should be asking men out on a date?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I think I don't do that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I am in my forties, so I
Speaker 8: guess this could be considered chapter two.
Speaker 3: And I and well have you wait, have you been
Speaker 3: married before?
Speaker 5: I wasn't married, but you know I did have you know,
Speaker 5: a lot of life changes in my thirties and kind
Speaker 5: of to start over in my forties. And I ran
Speaker 5: up to my current boyfriend.
Speaker 2: But that's because I was doing interviews, So.
Speaker 1: It's really about me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, why.
Speaker 1: Are you like this? What do you think about wine?
Speaker 4: Do you like it?
Speaker 1: Do you like to have a class of wine with me?
Speaker 1: That would be hilarious if.
Speaker 2: You know your video. I wasn't hitting on him.
Speaker 1: He just ran up to him and were like, you're hot.
Speaker 5: But it really works. I do think so few women
Speaker 5: approach men that. Now that I have like a job
Speaker 5: where I approach men for a living, they love it.
Speaker 5: Men love being approached by a woman. I think so
Speaker 5: many men are so afraid even like you know, interesting, cool, successful,
Speaker 5: powerful men, it's really intimidating for them to like go
Speaker 5: up to a woman and talk to her. So women,
Speaker 5: if you want to go up to men, you.
Speaker 1: Can like they'll like it.
Speaker 2: No man is going to be like, What's I.
Speaker 3: Going to change the dynamic of the hunt, because like
Speaker 3: so many men talk to like, you know, when I
Speaker 3: talked to me, I mean, I'm just say on this podcast,
Speaker 3: and I talked to men a lot about dating as well,
Speaker 3: and on my new show, we're talking a lot about
Speaker 3: my dating journey.
Speaker 1: And I was in Palm Beach and it was absolutely hideous.
Speaker 3: These men are like, hello, be nice, be nice to
Speaker 3: me number one. Yeah, nice, Just be kind, Just be nice,
Speaker 3: Just be kind like this, questions, ask questions, Ask me
Speaker 3: how my day is, do you know? Just be kind,
Speaker 3: Just be nice, and I just I'm just like, really,
Speaker 3: I just would never ask.
Speaker 1: I mean, there were guys and I was like, oh god,
Speaker 1: is kind of cute.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not asked.
Speaker 1: Came out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, somebody just came on my show and she was
Speaker 5: saying that you should just like give a man like
Speaker 5: a look and that's how men should know that it's
Speaker 5: okay to come to you.
Speaker 1: And I like, so like, let's just a look.
Speaker 3: Ready, like's a world play, It's okay, what's what's your look?
Speaker 2: I looks like this, Okay.
Speaker 1: Ready for mine? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Mine?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1: They always say touch your hair.
Speaker 3: If people are like your hair, I'm like, yes, I'm
Speaker 3: trying to trash men.
Speaker 2: You gotta like, yeah, like touch your mouth.
Speaker 5: And you just well you can be like yeah, then
Speaker 5: you start laughing, you giggle.
Speaker 1: Exactly, winking exactly, and then.
Speaker 2: The men know that it's okay to talk to you.
Speaker 2: But if you don't do that, So let's just.
Speaker 3: Let's just run through those because this is this is
Speaker 3: an audio podcast, and just tell me like, okay, so
Speaker 3: winking is good, touching your hair is good?
Speaker 1: What are yeah?
Speaker 5: So I kind of like, you know, you put your
Speaker 5: put your head down and you kind of like look
Speaker 5: up and you smile.
Speaker 2: You got a smile. People need to smile more, man,
Speaker 2: really a smile more.
Speaker 4: But smiling smiling is really really good.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's talk about red flags because I think the
Speaker 3: people think when they think of red flags, they think
Speaker 3: of them as pink.
Speaker 1: They're not pink, they're red. Red is red. Red is red?
Speaker 2: Yeah, red as red.
Speaker 5: But why would you even want to mess with a
Speaker 5: pink flag? Like, no flags, No flags are good unless
Speaker 5: it's green.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm like, what are they?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: So what are some of the red flags that you've
Speaker 4: come across?
Speaker 2: Okay, so.
Speaker 5: Lying he was obvious, but you know so many people
Speaker 5: are like, oh I caught him in this little lie, Like,
Speaker 5: well then what else is he lying about?
Speaker 2: Right? Lying is not good, even like lying about age
Speaker 2: I think is really weird.
Speaker 5: Like I had a guy that I met on on
Speaker 5: Hinge a long time a while ago, a couple of
Speaker 5: years back, like lied about his age and then I
Speaker 5: like found out he was older, and he was like, well,
Speaker 5: he got defensive and he got.
Speaker 2: Mad at me when I called him out. Yeah, someone
Speaker 2: getting mad at you?
Speaker 5: Someone getting defensive defensive a red flag if anyone's like defensive.
Speaker 6: About anything, and I agree, I agree, Like nom.
Speaker 4: So what are like the positive things like that?
Speaker 3: You'll be like, oh, he's saying that he's kind, And
Speaker 3: then you're like, why is he saying that he's kind of? Like,
Speaker 3: give me some of the things that you've you've you've
Speaker 3: seen that like a petty positive but actually, and by
Speaker 3: the way, after this, I would have write down a
Speaker 3: whole list.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think if a guy says he's kind, that's weird.
Speaker 2: Why does he need to say it? Or like my dad,
Speaker 2: I think he.
Speaker 5: Gave me some advice when I was a little girl,
Speaker 5: and he said, never trust anyone who says trust me.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know, that's really true.
Speaker 5: Like if someone, especially if someone says that unprompted, you're like,
Speaker 5: why why are you saying that?
Speaker 1: Why are you asking me to trust you?
Speaker 5: Have you done anything when people try to tell you, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm this kind of person or I do this or
Speaker 5: I'm like this, like.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, just me just show me, like be it.
Speaker 3: I love that and consistently be it, consistently be it
Speaker 3: not just like oh I was nice once. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's an all the time kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Consistency is so crucial.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 5: If somebody like is a certain way and then they
Speaker 5: just like you see, like a glib or something like
Speaker 5: very opposite of what of what they're portraying themselves as
Speaker 5: run because they're just trying to hide something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3: I'm going to add cheating because cheaters are.
Speaker 1: Going to cheat.
Speaker 3: If they cheated once or if they have cheated in
Speaker 3: the past, they're going to cheat again. I mean even
Speaker 3: if they say they don't, they they will do things
Speaker 3: that they do not feel as qualifying actual cheating, like
Speaker 3: emotional relationships. You know, emotional relationships are not physical, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1: But cheating is hard.
Speaker 2: Now yeah, hard now hard? No, Yeah, Or somebody being like.
Speaker 5: Being like cheap with you, like like anyone any guy
Speaker 5: who's like split the check like just no sorry.
Speaker 3: Or like oh my god, like literally when Palm Beach,
Speaker 3: I was but I went on a date with this
Speaker 3: guy and I said, you know, I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, you know, can you blow can
Speaker 3: you pay? I do have my hair blown out because
Speaker 3: it's Florida because event and he was like, oh, so
Speaker 3: now you want me to pay for You're going to
Speaker 3: pay for my shave.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, I'm going to an event for you?
Speaker 1: He goes, I paid for your ticket. I'm like, ho, there, Nelly.
Speaker 3: Now you're asking me to pay for a ticket to
Speaker 3: an event that I did not want to go to
Speaker 3: and zero interested going to?
Speaker 1: Like no, thank you? Yeah, no, awful. I don't like
Speaker 1: cheap because I'm not cheap and I do not like cheap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cheap is so on a track.
Speaker 4: I would never split. I would never split a bill
Speaker 4: for no.
Speaker 5: No, I'll just I'll just pay for it and then
Speaker 5: we'll just never hang out again.
Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah, exactly totally.
Speaker 1: Do men do good men exist?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah they do. There I'm going to have to I'm
Speaker 2: going to do like a features reel of like the.
Speaker 3: Good man I've met streets here, Kelly, here's some good men.
Speaker 2: They do?
Speaker 5: The good men exist? You know, I you know, my
Speaker 5: boyfriend is amazing. He's a good man. I was a
Speaker 5: little skeptical about like somebody like really like ticking all
Speaker 5: my boxes.
Speaker 1: But he does.
Speaker 2: So now I'm like love is real, y'all.
Speaker 1: Okay, So where is this?
Speaker 3: Where where do these good men hang out because I
Speaker 3: need the GPS.
Speaker 4: Like yesterday, I'm I'm going to be stalking them like
Speaker 4: a spider monkey.
Speaker 2: I interview like a spider monkey.
Speaker 5: I interviewed pro skiers and they were all really nice.
Speaker 5: I was like, why are all of these boys so amazing?
Speaker 5: And yeah, the Olympian athletes are really sweet. Go for
Speaker 5: the Olympians, Girls for the Olympians.
Speaker 1: You guys have to wait for.
Speaker 5: You, but not like not like athletes, like not ones
Speaker 5: with egos. Right, I feel like maybe guys that are
Speaker 5: like doing like really dangerous things like athletically have less egos.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if there's one decispect
Speaker 2: of men. Yeah, just like guys with egos are not good.
Speaker 3: Holla, you are so funny. I have a couple of
Speaker 3: more things to ask you on I do part two.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back