1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: Years surrounding COVID nineteen and the need for social distancing 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: have upended primaries in many states, setting the stage for 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: a fight over how to conduct the presidential election just 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: about six months from now. Joining me is elections expert 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Richard Brofald, professor at Columbia Law School. It seems that 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people are raising the idea of voting 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: by mail and the presidential election. How many states already 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: do that and what's the process like? At this point, 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: five states have moved to eight just about entirely all 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: vote by mail system in which at some point, several 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: weeks of worthy election, state election officers mail ballots to 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: all registered voters at their home address. I think Oregon 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: was the first state to do that. They're all on 15 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: the west. Oregon, Washington State, Colorado, Utah, and Hawaii all 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: do something which is either entirely vote by mail or 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: nearly so. Some of them have done more recently. I 18 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: think Argon has done now for a number of elections, 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: and they say it works pretty smoothly and that they 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: have not had a lot of problems. Although it's also 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: fair to point out that they tended to shift to 22 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: this over several election cycles. Initially they just encouraged it, 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: and then they moved to making it the main way 24 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: to vote besides vote by mail. Are there any other 25 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: options that states can use if the pandemic is still 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: at the point that it is come November? The main 27 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: goal is going to be to reduce crowding at polling places, 28 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: to reduce the dangers of both to voters, voters, family members, 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: and especially poll workers being exposed to a lot of 30 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: people who want so. An alternative option that that many 31 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: states also have been using for the last several years 32 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: is so called early in person voting, where instead of 33 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: everybody voting on election day, people can start to vote 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: in person with their own ballots, ring the ballots into 35 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: a location up to the different states that have different periods, 36 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: but one to two weeks before election day, kind of 37 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: frightening the curve, as you will, spreading out the period 38 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: of time so that the places where people are voting 39 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: are much less crowded. You can combine these, you know, 40 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: you can mail people ballace in advance and they can 41 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: bring them in to some central location or to some 42 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: secure location and deposit them off, if they'd undrest the 43 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: postal service, or if they still want to have the 44 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: feeling of actually going someplace to vote to You can 45 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: have various combinations that supplement the need to actually show 46 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: up at a local polling place on election day. About 47 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: six months until election day, what do states have to 48 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: do between then and now to make these changes of reality, 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: either voting by mail or the other option. I'd say 50 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: things would fall into three categories. I would call them legal, financial, 51 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: and voter educational. And and I guess that has financial 52 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: implications to Legally, some states have restriction on who can 53 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: vote by mail, and they basically say you need to 54 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: have an excuse, you're sick, you're gonna be out of state, 55 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: you have a disability. And I think one thing to 56 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: do would be either for the states to eliminate those requirements, 57 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: or that everyone could vote by mail, or simply to 58 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: declare for the purposes of this election, that's the press 59 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen means that we're all at risk of 60 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: being sick. So one way or the other, these I 61 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: have to go to what's called no excuses and key voting, 62 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: or just say for this one time, the presence of 63 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen in the world creates an excuse, so that 64 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: would be step one. Making sure that the ability to 65 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: vote by mail is an option open to everybody. Related 66 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: to that with then need to make it easy for 67 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: people to get absent ballots or vote by mail. In 68 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: the states that are all vote by mail, the ballots 69 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: could just get sent. Some people have some concerns about 70 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: that if you're in a system where you can also 71 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: still vote in the local polling places, that they'll be 72 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: excess ballots out there if some people don't want to 73 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: use them, and that could be used for fraud purposes. 74 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: So a second way would be to make it easier 75 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: for people to apply for ballots that are having to 76 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: get an application downloaded, printed and mail it in. To 77 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: make it easier for people just to apply electronically, so 78 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: at least to remove one mailing step in the process 79 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: and to make the process simpler would be another important 80 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: thing to do. That was would probably be the main things. 81 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: There are some other issues about creating a process whereby 82 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: the UH when you vote by mail, you generally sign 83 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: the back of the ballot and you have to sail 84 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: out some other things to prove that you're you is 85 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: a higher rate of rejection for mailed in ballots, partly 86 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: because in versus stills amounts, they're not a flowing place 87 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: that they can't ask any questions, they can't get a 88 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: correction right there, and so there needs to be a 89 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: system in place that would enable voting administrators if they 90 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: see a problem, to get it back to the voter, 91 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: to the voter could correct the problem. And there are 92 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: actually been litigation about this in a number of states 93 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: to force them to have proper systems. One another thing 94 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: to think about is just when are the ballots do back. 95 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: Some states say the ballots simply have to be postmarked 96 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: by election day. Others require that the ballot be received 97 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: by election day. That's obviously much greater constraints on voters, 98 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: especially if we're going to get a lot of people 99 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: voting by mail for the first time who might think 100 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: that they have until election day to vote. So I 101 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: think it's important to, you know, get that clarified and 102 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: maybe make it easier to get the ballots in by 103 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: mailing them by election day. That itself has its own 104 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: problems because then that makes it likely that the results 105 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: will not be known for longer than some of those 106 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: ballot won't be received until several days after election days. 107 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: So that's going to require again changes, a better investment 108 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: on how we count ballots, and greater voter in public 109 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: education so that people don't expect that they'll be results 110 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: instantly in a close election. If there are a lot 111 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: of mailed in ballots that are being mailed on election day, 112 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: we might not get a result for several days later, 113 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: and people need to be able to deal with that 114 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: and not be upset that there is an announced result 115 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: the next day. So, you know, though, it needs to 116 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: be a lot of voter agutation about just how this works, 117 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: because although there are a bunch of states that do 118 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: this exclusively and most of the states only relatively small 119 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: number of people are voting by mail, the national trend 120 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: has been to have more and more people, but that 121 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: tends to be concentrated in search states unless the one 122 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: other's states. I've been talking to Professor Richard Refault of 123 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: Columbia Law School about the challenges ahead in the presidential election. 124 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: So how much money will individual states need if they 125 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: want to convert from voting in person to voting by mail. 126 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: There's been some some studies on this, and I'll call 127 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: them kind of gu estimates because it's it's hard to 128 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: know for sure. But taking the states altogether, all the 129 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: best estimates are like one to one and a billion dollars. 130 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: Because you have to think about a bunch of things 131 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: need to happen. Uh, they need to have new machinery because, uh, 132 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: the scanners for current ballots are the ballots and vote 133 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: by you're going to look different than ballots e see 134 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: when you're voting in a polling place. For one thing, 135 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: they have to be designed so they could fit in 136 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: an envelope and be mailed to people. So after the 137 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: ballot has to be redesigned, you need to acquire the envelopes, 138 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: you need to pay for the postage, and then particularly 139 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: you need to get different kinds of ballot accounting machinery 140 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: because again there's gonna ballots will look different. They may 141 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,119 Speaker 1: be more likely to be sent to a central place. 142 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: Right now, most people vote very locally in local polling places. 143 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: But now the odds are we want to send these 144 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: ballots to a cential board of elections, so that many, 145 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: many more ballots are going to come into a particular 146 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: place to be counted. You need special machinery for that, 147 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: and the states that currently vote by mail have special 148 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: scanning and cabulating machinery. The other states will need something 149 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: like that. They'll need to get them. And I think 150 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: we also have to recognize an addition to the to 151 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: the cost of voting by mail is probably gonna have 152 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: to put some investment into prison voting. A lot of 153 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: people are still going to want to do that, but 154 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: we need to make sure that those places are clean 155 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: and safe and well designed and have adequate sanitary equipment. 156 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: Uh So that will have to be some money spent 157 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: on regular polling places in addition to the investment that's 158 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: going to be needed to get everyone kind of vote 159 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: by mail ready by November. President Trump has already started 160 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: a narrative that mail in ballots allowed cheating. Is voting 161 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: by mail more open to fraud? I think that is true. 162 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I think everyone would agree that who studied 163 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: this set, there's not a lot of voter fraud out there, 164 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: but because that there is, it's more likely to be 165 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: in vote by mail. Because they're the ballots, there's the 166 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: point where they go out of the hands of the 167 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: voter before they get into the hands of the election system, 168 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: so they does require more security. There is a greater 169 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: possibility of fraud. Now, the states that have gone tools 170 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: vote by mails say that there has been very little fraud. 171 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 1: But I think we do have to acknowledge that vote 172 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: by mail does raise issues and is going to require 173 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: more investment in security to make sure that the ballots 174 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: are encampered with and that the voting is honest. I 175 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: think that's I think it's a fair concern that it 176 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: has been very exaggerated in the way it's been raised. 177 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: President Tromp has urged Republicans to fight against voting by mail, 178 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: saying it doesn't work as well for Republicans. Is there 179 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: any proof of that? I would say that there's not 180 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: a lot of evidence, at least historically that vote by 181 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: male savers Democrats or Republicans. Uh, at least I think 182 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: initially vote by mail is used often by kind of 183 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: business people are out of town, or by older people 184 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: of whim it was difficult to get to the polling place, 185 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: and they were many of them were Republicans. Vote by 186 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: mail has been adopted. Was one of the recent states 187 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: to adopt it was Utah, which is a pretty Republican state, 188 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: although the other states that have it, I think it 189 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: tended to lean more democratic. There is some evidence that 190 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: that man already voters have been reluctant. He's vote by 191 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: mail and they tend to lean Democratic. So um, it's 192 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: not clear that vote that vote by mail tends to 193 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: favor one party over another party. It's certainly when it 194 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: was initially developed, it was seen as pretty much party 195 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: neutral in just a way of making it easier for 196 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: people to vote. So we've talked before about Republicans pushing 197 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: voter ID laws. How big an impact will the Tense 198 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: Circuit decision that the Kansas law requiring proof of citizenship 199 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: to vote was unconstitutional. How big an impact will that have? Well, 200 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's a pretty extensive as you know. 201 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: The Secretary of State of Kansas State and the guy 202 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: who was pushing this, Chris kop Bak, is a leading 203 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: advocate of this view on that there is a lot 204 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: of voter fraunt out there, uh, and that that justifies 205 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: more restrictive administrative requireings on on voters. And this case 206 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: involved an extensive review of the record, and he had 207 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: the chance to build up a record to show this 208 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: and they were simply unable to show. And that's what 209 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: the Ten Circuit says, that the evidence out there is 210 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: particularly in person voting for all. Just to make clear 211 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: that the case focused mostly on the idea that people 212 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: who are showing up at the polls or using somebody 213 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: else's name, or we're voting multiple times and lookwards that 214 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: there's just no evidence of that to support the kinds 215 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: of restrictive activities to stick to rules that he was 216 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: pushing for. So you know, it's, um, this might be 217 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: the highest level court in the kind of the most 218 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: kind of legally authoritative way that that kind of went 219 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: through this in in a very long opinion basically said 220 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: kind of there is no they're there. So how many 221 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: states have voter id laws? Well, voter ideas that kind 222 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: of covers a lot of ground. I mean, in some sense, 223 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: New York, while you're wanted to do with signature matching, 224 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: that is a kind of voter idea. Think what people 225 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: are mostly talking about now are so called photo voter ideas, 226 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: some kind of government issued I D that has your 227 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: picture on it. I think at this point, maybe more 228 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: than half the states, maybe I don't have the exact numbers. 229 00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: The half the two thirds of the states have something 230 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: that there's all sorts of you know someday. Some of 231 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: them are more rigid than other. Some of them drastically 232 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: limit the kinds of government documents that could be used. 233 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: You know, whether or not you could use your student 234 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: idea at a state university. Some states say yes, some 235 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: states they know, and some of them require, you know, 236 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: in order to get that i So much of it 237 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: turns on what you need to get the i D. 238 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: The problem with a lot of these ideas is, of course, 239 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: it's easier for people who drive, because often you do 240 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: need to get a photo ID when you get a 241 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: driver's license. But a significant fraction of the country doesn't 242 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: have a driver's license, and for them there we're not 243 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: a country that normally has that requires people to carry 244 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: government issued i D for a lot of things. We 245 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: may be moving to that, but traditionally people didn't have 246 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: to have that, and there may be a lot of people, 247 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: older people, low income, people who don't have cars, who 248 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, of course they're daily lives, don't need a 249 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: government issued photo ID, and it's it's for them that 250 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: this is particularly burdensome. And then state say we can 251 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: get it if you get your birth certificate. Well, a 252 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: lot of people may have moved, they may have a 253 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: birth certificate. So you know, I think people with with 254 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: with government issue phto idea requirements, most people can make 255 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: that requirement. That there's a significant number of people who can't. 256 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: And they tend to be people who are either older, 257 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: or poorer or moved a lot, and for them it's 258 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: a real burden. You know, when you talk about all 259 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: the things that would have to be done in order 260 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: to get the states ready for a different way of 261 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: voting in November, it seems like the time is very short. 262 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: Are any states doing anything right now about it? I 263 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: think some states are beginning to move. And actually we 264 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: just saw I think, to vote by mail elections. That 265 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: happened real fast. Just this week, Maryland had a special 266 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: election to Philip Congressional District and that was done by mail. 267 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: And Ohio which rescheduled it's it's primary primary election, which 268 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: is scheduled from mid March, just as COVID nineteen was 269 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: beginning to peak, it was rescheduled to earlier this week 270 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: and they did. It is almost entirely vote by mail, 271 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: so they moved pretty quickly. Now again these are only 272 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: prime The Maryland was a special election in a largely 273 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: one party district, uh and the Ohio was a primaria. 274 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: At this point, at least in terms of the the 275 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: presidential primary issue, the intensity of it had been pretty 276 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: much gone. But we're beginning to see states move and 277 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of litigation out there trying to 278 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: make them move faster. There was just a lawsuits filed 279 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: in Texas. Texas allows no excuse vote by mail for 280 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: anybody sixty five and older, either sixty or sixty five, 281 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure it's a restricted So there's a 282 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: lawsuit saying this is asia discrimination against the younger people. 283 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: I think we're seeing both prove voluntary action by state 284 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: governors that state legislatures starting um and by litigation elsewhere. 285 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: The movement is beginning. Will it be fast enough and 286 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: far enough enough money be put into it? Well, no 287 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: better the next couple of months. It is still only 288 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: April at least just barely or super b May. But 289 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: there's still some time. But but time is of the essence. 290 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: Even before COVID nineteen, there were rumblings that there was 291 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: going to be a cloud over the election. People were 292 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: talking about cyber hacking and things like that. So does 293 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: it seem like with COVID nineteen there really is going 294 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: to be a cloud over the election. No matter what 295 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: states do, it's gonna be a very stressful election. I 296 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: mean there was a lot of stress last time. I think, frankly, 297 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: any election which is close, and certainly the corrent polling 298 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: data suggests that November will be close, there'll be a 299 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: lot of stubts, there'll be a lot of concerns about fraught, 300 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: about hacking, something about the ways. I do think that 301 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: even without a lot of legal change, I think you 302 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: are going to see, no matter what, a lot a 303 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: lot more votes by mail in those states worked an 304 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: option work already an option, many more people are gonna 305 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: opt for it because of concerns about going to the polls. 306 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: Those ballots are going to come in and they're gonna 307 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: they take longer account and I think we will see 308 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: in a number of states where it's close, that we 309 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: may not be able to have results on election night 310 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: or Wednesday morning. You see this frequently in California, which 311 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: is not all vote by mail but has a lot 312 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: of vote by mail. You know, ballots keep umping in 313 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: UH and they're still accounting them, you know, days and 314 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: weeks later, until they're all fully resolved again. California have 315 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: been asked for national elections. Has not been a close date. 316 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: But I think if we're looking at some closed states 317 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of mail in ballots that are even 318 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: if they're arriving by election day, they may take time 319 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: account and if their postmark election day, they're going to 320 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: be arriving for several days afterwards. Can President Trump moved 321 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: the election, as former Vice President Joe Biden expressed concerns about, 322 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: there is a pretific way. There is absolutely no authority 323 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: for President Trump's reschedule the election, no legal authority. What 324 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: he actually tries to do is unclear to me, but 325 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: there is absolutely no legal authority for the presidentiary schedule 326 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: of the election. Um Congress could change certain things. The 327 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: true election, of course, is when the vote, when the 328 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: elect towards me to in the Electoral College. I'm at 329 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: the date that's set by statute. Uh, it's I forget 330 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: that's what date it's going to be this year, but 331 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: it's always a date in the middle of December, and 332 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: that Congress has some leggal room if we want to 333 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: to reschedule the date in which people go and vote, 334 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: but that day is set in the statute, and that 335 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: could be pushed back a little bit. But at some 336 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: point on January twenties, the president's term expires, and there 337 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: is certainly nothing in the constitution that allows him to 338 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: stay a day an hour past noon on January twenty 339 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: unless he's reelected. Thanks rich that's Professor Richard Brufault of 340 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: Columbia Law School, and that's it for this edition of 341 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law. I'm June Grasso. Thanks so much for listening, 342 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: and remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show weeknights 343 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: at Jenbns journ Yre on Bloomberg Radio.