WEBVTT - The Dave Pasch Podcast - Charles Davis 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:06.960 Hey there, everybody, and welcome to another edition of the 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.960 Dave Pash Podcast. I'm your host Arizona Cardinals, an ESPN 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.840 play by play announcer Dave Pash. My guest this week 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.599 is CBS broadcaster Charles Davis, who is simply one of 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:20.840 the best in the biz, and he's also one of 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.600 the best guys in the business. Saw Charles as he 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.640 was calling the Titans Cardinals preseason game for Tennessee Television 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.000 and always good to catch up with him. One of 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.400 the friendliest people in our business, so good at what 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.680 he does, whether it was calling college games for all 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.920 those years at Fox, calling NFL at Fox, are now 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:44.720 at CBS. With his broadcast partner Ian Eagle, We'll talk Cardinals, 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:48.400 We'll talk NFC West, We'll talk about other teams that 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.520 maybe under the radar that Charles has his ion potentially 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.800 to make the Super Bowl. So the Cardinals are as 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.240 good as shape as anyone. To me, it all comes 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:01.880 down to one thing. Kyler Murray, Cliff Kingsberry, both of 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.679 them to me, have to find a way to bring 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.959 the rest of tea the law that the second half 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.279 of the season is exciting and winning as the first 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.320 half We are presented by BETMGM, the official sports betting 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.200 partner of the Arizona Cardinals, and by Hila River Hotels 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.560 and Casinos. Get ready for a football season like never 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.039 before with BETMGM, an official partner of the Arizona Cardinals. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.720 Sign up today using code cards one thousand and get 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.520 your first bet risk free up to one thousand dollars. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.120 Visit betmgm dot comfer terms and conditions twenty one and 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.360 over Arizona only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem called one 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.480 eight hundred. Next step. Now time to hear from one 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:45.040 of the top analysts in the sport, CBS's Charles Davis. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.760 First off, Charles, we are in a business where there 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.720 are a lot of egos. Like I've had other former 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.680 coaches and former players coming into our business and say, Man, 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:59.960 there are more egos in this business than they weren't 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.480 football or basketball. You're one guy that has no ego 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.880 and you work with Iron Ego on CBS. And I've 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.919 known Iron for thirty years. He was a big help 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:12.600 to me when I was coming out of college. Still 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.639 is a big help to me. Yeah. But the two 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.240 of you guys are two of the nicest guys in 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.080 this business. So you've been working together for a couple 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.080 of years. Do you ever argue? Do you agree on everything? 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:29.320 You guys must be the best announced team to be around. Oh, 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.280 you're awfully kime first and foremost, Dave. That's very nice 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.440 of you to say. It's greatly appreciated. Second, anyone who 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.960 really knows me knows I do have an ego, and 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.600 plenty of it. Okay. I mean, let's face it, if 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.000 we're in this business, every one of us does to 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.440 some extent because we know what it's like and the 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.839 willingness to put yourself out there and the whole thing 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.000 and to believe that, Yeah, what I'm doing is pretty 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.640 darn good. Yeah, we all have it. My thing, I 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.120 think is learning along the way and coming up the 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.400 way that I've had to come up. I have more 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.919 to prove all the time, Dave. So I'm not one 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.880 that has a resume that just sings out at you. 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.359 You know, I wasn't an All American, I wasn't an 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.040 All pro I wasn't a Coach of the Year. I 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.760 wasn't all those things. So I have to keep working 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.880 to prove. So no no way, shape or form can 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:17.320 I jump into the front of the line and go 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.760 look at me and do jazz hands. It just doesn't 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:24.079 work that way. He's unbelievable, isn't he. I mean, as 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.160 you mentioned, he helped you, he helps me all the time. 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.440 There's things we disagree about, but I don't I'd be 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.959 stunned to find out if we had this question ten 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.680 years down the road, that he and I ever had 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.640 cross words. I mean, it's just he's so good and 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.760 so brilliant and so smart. I'm very, very happy to 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.480 follow his lead, and at the same time, when I 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:45.960 have something to offer, he considers it, you know. I mean, 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.480 he's everything is legit, and if we decide not to 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.760 do something, there's always a valid reason for it. So 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.000 I don't spend any time going I can't believe he 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:59.080 didn't want to do my idea. I mean, every idea 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.080 I have isn't brilliant. I like to thank you this, 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.200 but you mentioned I mean, you remind me in some 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.320 ways of Kirk Herbstreet, who you know, didn't have this 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.480 tremendous resume in terms of being a player that you 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.640 know won multiple national championships or an All American or 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.200 a pro bowler, yet here the two of you guys 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:24.160 are among the top analysts in the world. And take 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.480 me through because you did such a great job at 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.120 Fox for so long, whether it was with Gus Johnson 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.080 or Kevin Burkhardt, and then you get the number two 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.480 gig at CBS, which includes a playoff game. Take me 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.440 through the decision Charles to leave Fox where you'd been 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.479 for a long time and go to CBS. Well, you 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.159 know that again, I really really appreciate that. And we 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.560 know how you know terriffic Kirk is. I mean, look 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.839 at him east top of the food chain in terms of, 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:57.520 you know, the respect, the analysis. Plus he's an incredible worker. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.880 I mean, how many jobs does that man have? I mean, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.040 just waking up in the morning, I'm tired of thinking 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.039 about what kirk schedule is going to be this fall, 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.359 and that he's edited Amazon and everything else. And you know, 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.760 I always always would tease it before. Now we made 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:12.960 that similar resumes if you know what one for you 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.479 hear you played quarterback at Ohio State. Okay, at the 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.160 end of the day, that does not hurt. But when 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.000 you go behind things, as you've alluded to, and I'll 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.280 stop here on Kirk after this and move on. He 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.440 had to wait his turn there, right, If I remember correctly, 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.520 I think he was a fifth year, first year starter 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.599 and captain to the team. So the respect level was 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.600 there because he waited his turn in terms of hey, 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.920 i went out the starter, but I'm still a great 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.599 practice player, I'm still a great teammate. I'm still ready 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.640 if they need me. And then when it was his turn, 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.440 he produced in a big way. But think about nowadays, Dave, 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.000 and again, I'm not lasting anyone because when I was 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.800 a freshman at Tennessee, I was very unhappy my first investor. 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.600 I thought about transferring too. So I get it when 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.640 people want to move if. I don't think there's any 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.120 denying that the movement now is well beyond anything we've 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.760 seen before. Kirch in this day and age may he 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:10.960 may not have stated how he might have found another place, 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.400 but he did find this his niche there, but he 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.599 understands what the grind is. He understands the effort you 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.920 have to put in. He also understands the word patience. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.919 So I've been fortunate. I've sit next to some really 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.200 great people. As you've mentioned, you know from from from 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:30.600 Dick Stockton helping room me Tom Brennaman. Before that you 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.240 mentioned Kevin Now of course the Iron I hope. I'm 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.520 not leaving any one out. I will say this, Kenny Albert, 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:42.039 who would jump in during baseball season, brilliant guy. I've 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:46.240 been lucky, you know, Sam Rosen, all those things kicking in. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:52.400 I'm fortunate. Here's the deal. My time there between college 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.520 football and NFL football. At a certain point it gat 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.440 to where I sit, got to you know, there there 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:04.279 was conversation that I wasn't quote unquote privy too, but 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.480 I had understood, hey, you know, somebody else may be 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.360 coming in. This may be happening. But as I said then, 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.800 it made sense because my contract was coming up. CBS 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.280 was interested in me, and as I tell everybody, without 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.080 diving too deep at all, that it just made sense 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:21.720 for me to be where I am now, which is 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.800 a CPS and I consider myself grateful that they would 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.280 want me to join their team. Well, you and I 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.200 are great together, and you guys are going to be 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.760 a great team for a long time. You called the 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.160 game Sunday for CBS, the Steelers game, but then on Saturday, 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.040 prior to that, you did our game against the Titans, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.760 for a yeah, it was. It was great catching up man. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:49.040 So it's in a way kind of a difficult question 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.040 to ask for your thoughts on the Cardinals because nobody played. 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:56.040 But what did you think based on what you saw? Well, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.560 it's it's you're right. I mean, if we're taking off 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.960 the snapshot of what we saw, you and I can 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.280 neither one of us could venture anything. And you're closer 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.280 to the team than I am. Right. I mean around 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.160 the league, if you ask teams, ask any anyone who 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.520 watches their team, Hey, which take th team? I don't know. 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.880 None of the guys play. I mean Pittsburgh against Detroit 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.440 played guys a lot longer in Game three than than 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.000 I would have expected. Nag Harris, there's running back played 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.200 the entire first half. I think the whole entire starting 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.200 offense played the first half. T J. Watt played the 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.640 first half. I mean, it was you're iway sitting there 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.520 going wow, this is not normal in this day and age. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.480 But that's how the Steelers do it. And I'd say 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.000 Mike thomas track record is pretty good on it. For 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.840 the Cardinals, I had to take them an aggregate, Dave, 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.640 and this is a good football team. We know it's 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:45.960 a good football team. They were in the playoffs last year. 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.960 Did they lose anything anyone? You know that makes the 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.559 appreciable difference. Well, you're always wondering if this guy's gone, 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.920 will not change things with that guy. But I feel 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:00.480 like they have such a good core roster and she's 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.000 not worried as much about that other people up to 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.400 plug in play. That happens everywhere around the league. So 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.920 the Cardinals are as good as shape as anyone. To me, 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:14.400 it all comes down to one thing, Kyler Murray Cliff 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:20.320 Kingsbury that can them. Both of them to me, have 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.319 to find a way to a long bring the rest 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.000 of the team a law that the second half of 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.520 the season is exciting and winning as the first half. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.319 And that may sound trite, but I don't know that 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.880 there's anything else left for this Cardinals team to prove 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.559 they're good. They wouldn't the playoffs last year day and 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.960 you watch them, please tell me if I'm wrong. But 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.000 the previous two seasons, there were opportunities to make the 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.120 playoffs in those seasons, but they couldn't close it the 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.640 on the second half of the year. This past year 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.000 they sprinted out so far ahead that when they did 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.280 hit bumps in the second half year, they could weather them. 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.520 But they weren't good going into the playoffs, and then 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.439 they didn't well in the playoffs. And look, Cliff Kingsbury 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.880 has exceeded what many would have thought when he was 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:11.160 named head coach. Why well, look at the resume coming 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:18.080 in Texas Tech. Losing record overall second half of any 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.679 season in Texas Tech, never a winning record. It was 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:23.679 gonna be the offin's coordinate at USC all of sudden 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:27.120 head coaching have what just happened here? But he's proven 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.760 his metal in terms of adapting, putting together a heck 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.200 of a product, getting better every year on the field, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.040 and then getting to the playoffs last year. But that 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.520 does go with him. The second part is Kylin Murray. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.640 We went through the entire offseason with the Kylin Murray 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.760 drama of this is that and everything. But as he 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:47.559 talented beyond belief, there's times I have to believe, Dave, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.880 when you're watching pleasures like did I just describe that? 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.200 Because when we call games, I mean I am called 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.320 the Hill Murray. I mean, so we've seen it. But 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.000 now is he that guy going to move this team 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.720 ahead and make that type of progress that they have 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.760 to have in order to go deeper into the playoffs 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.440 to be a factor, because it's all on him now. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.840 Every move has made in the offseason, every move has 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.760 made in the preseason, in my mind, has been a 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.920 reflection of management saying, give Kyler what he wants or 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.319 what we believe he needs to make us better. That's 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.480 my own estimation of it. I want to get back 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.720 to Kyler, but you mentioned Cliff, and I've had to 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.839 remind people that are cardinal fans of this. Often in 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:36.120 today's NFL head coaching hires are as much about ability 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.200 to develop and get the most out of the quarterback 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.560 position as we've ever seen it. It's not necessarily about 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.960 being CEO managing the whole organization. It's about that relationship 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.839 with the quarterback. And you think about who Cliff worked with, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.120 and the problem is, other than Mike Evans, he didn't 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.600 have a lot to work with for his quarterbacks, but 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:58.360 he had case Keenum Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes, Johnny Manziel 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.520 the year he won the Heisman, and now La Murray. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.840 And he deserves credit for helping all of those guys 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:10.400 along the way. I'm curious if have you noticed any 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.080 changes in the way Cliff has approached things, because we 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.120 have here in terms of I think the biggest thing 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.720 that stands out to me, obviously I'm close to it, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.000 so we see it every day is I think Cliff's 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.679 he's such a humble guy and just a good dude 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:24.840 that I think initially he didn't want to step on 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.520 anybody's toes. He heard exactly what you were talking about, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.240 people saying, oh, why does he have this job? So 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.200 I think he wanted to make sure that he didn't 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.960 step on anybody's toes. And now that he's more comfortable, 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.840 he's one, he has proven himself at this level. I 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.840 think we're seeing more of who Cliff really is. He's 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.560 a lot more comfortable with the media. We saw an 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.559 edge last year with officials. I think that's really who 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.200 Cliff is. So I'm curious if you've seen other things 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.079 or heard other things about how he's grown and changed 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.719 over the last few years. Dave, I think that's a 0:12:54.800 --> 0:13:00.320 great synopsis on it on Cliff, because the back round 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.520 on and you know, some people may not be aware 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.680 of Cliff comes out of this like so many others. 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.120 He's the son of a coach too, raised in the game, 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.920 cerebral quarterback who produced at a big time level of 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.640 college football, had the cup of coffee in the NFL, 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.640 was never a threat to be a starter, but a 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.400 guy that you liked having on the roster was going 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.800 to know your playbook, was gonna work hard, all those things. 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.840 So he didn't just take in quarterback play along the 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.760 way he took in coaching one oh one, relationships, all 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.959 of that. So go back, and I agree with your 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.120 point of getting the job hearing oh my god, who hired? 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.840 What are you kidding me? And feeling it from the 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.080 peers and that are in the business. You and I 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.720 understand that, Dave, because when we're getting it, if we 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.839 get a certain job, we may get congratulations, not all 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.280 of them our heartfelt now, because that's just the way 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.120 we are. Because some people are like, how do you 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.680 get that job? Right now? The truth of the matter 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:57.520 is you and I both privately have said the same 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.680 things ourselves, how big get that job? And that's just 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.160 the way. No, no, never, never, never never, Well, okay, 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:09.400 let me but what the funny part is, you know, 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:11.520 Clifford had to go through that, so I think you're 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.040 spot on with that one. But now he's been through 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.720 the fire, he's done these things, and I think that 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.880 and what I've heard is more time with other positions, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.720 even though he's still running the offense. More time with 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.000 those other coaches. In the beginning, hey, I'm counting on 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.480 you to like you be the CEO of defense or whatever, 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.200 that sort of a deal. Still that's there, But now 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.280 I don't think I don't think he's shy about offering 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.240 an opinion about what he's seeing, how it's being coached, 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.840 what's going on out there, And people keep forgetting just 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.680 because you coach one side of the ball more exclusively 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.600 than the other doesn't mean you don't know what's going 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.240 on on the other side. In fact, your experiences on 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.400 that side of the ball can help you and help 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.320 your other side of the ball get better. If you're 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.840 a defensive coach, you're going to sit with your offense 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.920 Cordner and tell him, Hey, this is what i'm seeing 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.640 from your crew, and this is how I would stop you. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:01.960 This is what I want to do. If you're an 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.000 offensive coach going to the d coordinay, Hey, these types 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.160 of things that I'm running or I'm seeing, or what 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.040 I suspect they're going to do with you, And this 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.200 is how I think they're going to attack you use 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.760 those eyes to help that go on. And so I 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.640 think he's gotten to that stage, and I think it 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.400 burns him to know that that records out there the 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.200 second half of a year and trying to figure it 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.560 out to where they find where they finished strong and 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.960 they got into the playoffs and have an opportunity to 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.040 win some playoff teams and go deeper. That's the next 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.840 goal for him, and he's a competitor throwing through. He's 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:35.920 not taking that lightly, and I think he's going to 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.080 try and attack that as well. And obviously the team 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.280 has to produce. But Dave, imagine if if that's what 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.040 you're hearing everywhere you go, and the problem is, it 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.680 isn't what'sit deal. This isn't one where we're just talking 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.880 about it. We can point to actual numbers and say, okay, 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.880 here they are. How do you fix that? You've known 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.280 Charles and covered Kyler Murray going back to even when 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.320 he was at Texas A and M before he went 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.360 to Oklahoma and won the Heisman Trophy and then was 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.480 the number one overall pick in the draft. You know 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.600 the family he played against his dad. I think you 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.920 guys were in college at the same time play against him, 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.280 but we were the same time frame. And this is 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.440 how old I am. I called a bunch of Cliffs 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.400 games at College of Texas Tech, So I'm an old dude. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:19.760 You've been doing this a long time and at a 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:25.200 high level. So, but what's your assessment of Kyler's ceiling 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.320 Because you talked about it and you witnessed the game 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.240 against Buffalo a couple of years ago. I mean, he 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.960 can he can do that now, I mean the crazy, 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.720 the unimaginable, he can do that. The question ever on 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.000 everybody's mind here is, you know, can he do it consistently? 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.600 Can he deliver not just in one big game, but 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.520 in a series of big games to get you to 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:53.360 a championship. Look, you said something that I've really latched onto, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.400 and you talked about how Cliff has coached all these 0:16:55.440 --> 0:17:00.400 quarterbacks and helped make them better. And what I always 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.440 talk about is to me, and you call a lot 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.840 of college football too, So please tell me if you 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.200 sink something different. I don't believe the game of football 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.520 is as quarterback centric as it is right now, like 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.080 it's never been this quarterback centric. I grew up in 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.679 an era where you could actually play around your quarterback 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.840 by how the game was played. If you had that, 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.760 that that horrible expression of game manager. See to me, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.280 a game manager is Tom Brady, is Peyton Manning, It's 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.399 it's Drew Prize, it's you know, Patrick Walls. The guys 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.160 at the top of the food chain manage the game 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.280 better than anyone. But I know the way that we 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.080 use it popularly as game managers. Guy who is not 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.600 quite the guy that you point to hopefully won't get you, 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.320 be hopefull he'll make the right decisions. All of that. 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.040 I could open era when you could do that with 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.600 your quarterback and still win championships. I don't think you 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.159 can do that now. I think your quarterback has to 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.440 be that person everything runs through. You're too big, the 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.720 the the Baltimore Ravens defense that carried him to a 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.520 Super Bowl, and everyone talks about that. No. My reminder 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.919 is Dave Trent Dilfer was a first round pickular quarterback, right, 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.359 so I know you're ripping him, But at the same time, 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.159 It's not like he didn't have talent. Was it a 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.119 weird year? Yeah, they went to the entire bunth of 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.000 October Then's quote off as a touchdown and won a 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.000 Super Bowl. So yes, that defense was predominant. But there's 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.240 less and less where one side of the ball, meaning 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.120 defense in art this case carries you that far. At 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.240 some point your quarterbacks gotta be able to make plays. 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.280 To me, there is no ceiling with Kyler Murray, now 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.480 that we've broken down the barrier about height and people 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:41.040 so concerned. This kid never was Paul Bunyan. He's always played, 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.439 having to learn how to do that and to go 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.480 undefeated in high school, to go through some bumps in 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.560 college and come out the other side. You know, he 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.680 wasn't total silver spoon Texas A and M. It didn't 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.760 go so great as verse year. He and Kyle Allen 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.720 both transferred out. Then he goes and get shit behind 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.760 the Heisman Trophy winner in Mayfield longer than he thought. 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.560 Still managed to hang in there, win the Heisman. This 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.280 posun picking baseball, Dave, I don't think there's a ceiling. 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.320 I think there's nothing he can't do. He can be 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.680 that exciting the consistency is going to be the word 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:20.280 meaning to me down the stretch, bigger games, and can 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.480 he find ways to win when he doesn't have his 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.040 best stuff. It's like a great pitcher, you know, he 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.040 used to used to get in fifteen ten, you know, 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.000 ten twelve strikeouts the game. Now he doesn't have that. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.520 But can he pitch his way and keep his team 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.280 in it? And all of a sudden go strikeouts turned 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.920 into the ground balls. Okay, he doesn't have his best stuff. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.520 Instead of winning, you know, two to one, he finds 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.080 a way to hold him the four runs. His team 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.360 wins by four. Those are the times when you find 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.080 out about a quarterback. When you're seventeen to thirty eight 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.760 going into the fourth quarter and somehow in the last 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.280 drive you fashion it together and go six verse seven 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.320 and stick it in the end zone. That's when found 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.600 a quarterback. Not to days you're twenty eight at thirty one, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.040 that's not when you find out who you are. And 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.360 those are the things that we're looking for. I think 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.240 from a Kyler Murray was more than capable of doing 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.399 everything I mentioned and ends up and I couldn't agree 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.200 with you more about what you said about and the 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.520 Cardinals no that that's why they gave Kyle to the contract. 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.479 The hope is that it works out great, but if 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.359 it doesn't, Okay, you had to. You had to. You're 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.399 in a position. We absolutely had to do that. And 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.080 definitely you know, the last two guests we had on 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.840 this podcast, we had Jason Light the Buccaneers GM think 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.400 how his life is different with Tom Brady coming back 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.359 as opposed to not And Dabo Sweeney, who I just 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.760