WEBVTT - 7: Ervil Comes Home 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:15.640 Novel. A listener notes this episode contains violence and content 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:24.720 that some listeners might find distressing. Previously, on Deliver Us 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:29.280 from Hervial, Hervill thought that he could just move in 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.440 and take leadership. Well, it didn't work. That's the problem. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.680 They thought they were going to go out and save 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.640 the world. Herbal was their leader. There's really gonna be 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:44.640 no stopping him. Anyone who opposed him deserved to die, 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:51.400 including a daughter. So I called my mother and she said, honey, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:57.200 your daddy's been shot. He said from the beginning, the 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.320 only way you're going to get Herville is to break 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:06.520 someone substantial in his group. The FBI today arrested a 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.440 key suspect in the nineteen seventy seven religious assassination of 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:14.319 Polygamus patriarch Ruling all Read. Agents arrested twenty year old 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.200 Greenish and Off at the International Bridge in Laredo, Texas. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.720 Even though we didn't have solid eyewitness testimony that she 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.920 was doing the pole the trigger, I was pretty confident 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:28.319 that we had sufficient evidence to convict. Judge raise the verdict, 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:39.840 not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, not guilty. Back in 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.920 seventy six, the leader of the Church of the Lamb 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.000 of God sent a letter to Jimmy Carter, A battle 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.800 is raging, he would write, a battle of the most important, 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:55.280 decisive nature the world has ever known. The Geneva Peace 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.720 Convention and the British Parliament would get similar letters from 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:03.480 herbal two. As God's prophet on earth, he wanted, well 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:10.720 actually demanded, world domination. Ervil had always aimed high, absurdly 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:15.959 delusionally high, but by this point in Irvil's mind, there 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.360 was plenty of evidence to back up his delusions his 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.200 belief that God was on his side, because even a 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.880 few years after that letter to the President, there still 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.799 hadn't been a single conviction in the United States against 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.880 any of rvil A Baron's active cult members for their 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:39.240 murderous activities. But despite this, in Salt Lake City, the 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.840 cops like Detective Dick Forbes and prosecutors like David Yoakum, 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.960 they weren't going to just give up and stop. After all, 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:53.000 Ervil seemed to actually believe he spoke for God and 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.560 God wanted him to commit these killings. But many of 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.680 the people hunting rvil A Baron saw this as a 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:05.040 holy crusade too. Most belonged to the Mormon church or 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.040 had been raised in it. They were trying to clean 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:12.040 up their own house. This applied to del van Ada, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.399 the investigative reporter falling Herbal's trail. You heard an episode 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.520 four and Dick Forbes too. The Salt Lake City detective 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:26.120 Dell was swapping information with Plus From the mid seventies. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.600 There was a certain prosecutor in California who also had 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:39.280 the colt in his crosshairs. It was it was I 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:40.920 knew we're in the right spot when I saw the 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:46.080 format come back. This is Gary Rumble. For decades he 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.000 worked as a prosecutor in San Diego. Mormon, like me, 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.760 went to b y U, except got kicked out. Gary 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.480 isn't your typical Mormon. He's always been a little rough 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.880 around the edges. He comes from Stockton, California. Even today, 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.880 you tell someone you're from Stockton, people might assume you 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.720 know how to scrap. If you pulled up at a 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.040 stop sign, you look over at the other car and 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.560 there was another teenager there, and you looked at that 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.680 guy for more and about five seconds you were going 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.200 to be in a fight in the street before the 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.760 light changed. So Gary learned how to fight. I took 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.160 taekwon do. I went about three or four times a week. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.120 But then I got hired as a marshal at my 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.400 twenty one birthday and started carrying a gun, and I 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.520 immediately dropped out of taekwon do because fists are fast, 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.760 but bullets are faster. Gary's being slightly tongue in cheek 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:43.039 here but only slightly in person, he manages to be 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:49.839 simultaneously both warm and humorous and yet unflinching antagonistic, and 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:54.080 these pugilistic parts of his personality well, he carried that 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.920 into his job at the San Diego County District Attorney's Office. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.479 Here for nearly forty years, Gary fought cases in court, 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.760 sometimes quite literally. We would go to war and in 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.040 the courtroom like we were going to a sporting event 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.479 every day. I've tried crips, I've tried the Hell's angels, 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.960 I've tried all kinds of murderers, and I just have 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.159 a good time. I kind of treat it like a sport. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:25.680 My style was to be extremely aggressive, almost physically aggressive 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.839 in court, but I always smile at the crook. And 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.560 what makes these stories all the more amusing to me 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.080 is the fact that Gary's not a big guy. He 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.719 might be my size ten, thin frame. But as well 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.320 as that take kwon do, he was a wrestler in college. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.880 He has that wily style of fighting and he'd use 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.120 that in the courtroom too well. Coming from a tough town, 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.400 I knew I couldn't out mad dog the crooks, and 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.800 I genuinely disliked the violet crooks. So what I did 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.880 was I smiled at him, and when I was given 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.159 my closing statement, if it was a violent crook, I 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:02.920 love that if I could get him to attack me. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.760 I'd been to attack three times in the courtroom in 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.080 front of the jury, and it's just it's wonderful because 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.360 the jury gets to see what these people are like 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.559 on the streets. It wasn't just gang members. Gary used 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.080 this tactic for the cold blooded killers too, and I 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.080 had one murderer that had just about cut a guide 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.440 of pieces and was throwing parts of him around the room. 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.039 It was a horrific case. It attacked me incidentally during 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:33.839 the trial, and he refused to come in for sentencing because, 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.280 as he told the judge, I don't want to come 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.720 in there because you're gonna sentence me to life. And 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.720 Mr Rymple's gonna smile at me, and I don't want 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:45.080 to see him smile. The Labaron case, though, this was different. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:51.280 These weren't crips or contract killers. These were religious zealots 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.520 from a branch of Gary's own faith, and what they 0:06:55.600 --> 0:07:02.080 wanted was beyond reason. Unlike anything Gary had encountered. These 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.000 guys wanted to dominate the world. You see this thing 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:12.160 about this particular cult that stands out. These people are 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:17.360 extremely clean cut. You can see a dirtbag dope dealer 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.720 coming at you down the street. These guys could walk 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.239 up next to you in the supermarket pushing the cart, 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.960 more clean cut than I've ever been, shoot me twice 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:31.000 behind the ear, walk outside, get arrested, asking if they've 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.720 ever done anything wrong, and they say no, They passed 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:41.160 a polograph. The murder Gary was trying to prosecute was 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.000 a Dean vest that giant of a man who left 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.760 the army after strangling his sergeant, then did a stint 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:53.040 in prison and joined Merville's colt. It was Geary's job 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.880 to try and get a conviction against one of herbal 0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:01.120 Le Baron's assassin wives, Vonda White. She was somewhat nondescript, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:07.840 humble looking, straight hair, sort of an older waif, thin, 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:14.080 hollow cheeked, blinking eyes, non threatening looking. In other words, 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.640 when Gary Remple would eventually face Vonda in court, she 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:24.560 wasn't going to try to mad dog anyone. And for Gary, 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:30.000 the stakes could not have been higher. So far, every 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.600 prosecutor who had taken a cult member to trial had 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:39.880 gone in confident with eyewitnesses, fingerprints, and other circumstantial evidence. 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:46.040 And yet somehow every time Hervil's posse had been acquitted. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.280 And so the prosecutors and cops trying to take this 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:55.600 murderous cult down really needed this one to stick. They 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:03.360 needed to stop the killings. With one conviction. They were 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.120 sure the dominoes would start to fall and they could 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:12.400 finally bring down Herville. But in their way were fugitive suspects, 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.240 watertight alibis, plus the fact that one of their previous 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:27.960 star witnesses from inside the Colt was about to die. 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.080 From the teams at Novel and I Heart Radio, this 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:36.480 is deliver Us from Herville. I'm Jesse Hyde. This is 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:55.200 episode seven, Herville Comes Home. Throughout this series, I've tried 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:59.600 to draw a clear line between mainstream Mormonism and it's 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:04.920 fun to mentalist branches. Partly for accuracy, mainstream Mormons haven't 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.640 practiced polygamy in over one years, and the faith is 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.960 trust me, anything but violent, and partly because I don't 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.000 want to lump people I love in with a group 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.840 like herbal abeyance. Many of my friends and family are 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:24.600 still devout believers. That said, it also wouldn't be fair 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.080 or accurate to not trace the roots of some of 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:34.400 these beliefs to their source. For many Mormons, these are 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:39.079 uncomfortable truths things maybe they don't want to look at. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.640 One of the most controversial doctrines and Mormonism, for example, 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:49.400 is called blood atonement. Mainstream Mormons rarely utter these words. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:54.239 If you do, things can get weird because blood atonement 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.600 is the belief that some sins are so awful you 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.800 can't be forgiven and less sure blood is spilt. Without 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:07.160 blood atonement, you become a son of perdition, gets sent 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.920 to Hell, that unique kind of Mormon held known as 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.280 outer darkness. Your blood is spilt to save you from 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:22.320 that terrifying fate. Nowadays, not many mainstream Mormons have even 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.160 heard of blood atonement. I never had growing up, or 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:30.800 in fact, until I first started studying Mormon fundamentalism. And 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:36.080 the doctrine is disputed, but some fundamentalists do believe it. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.560 And that is what happened to the giant Dean Vest. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:53.920 Saturday in June was yet another sunny and cloudless day 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.199 in National City, a working class suburbs south of San Diego, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.520 not too far from the border with Mexico. This is 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.480 where dean Vest lived with a few of Hervil's followers. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.680 It was common for cult members to share houses like 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:13.480 this together. Unremarkable on the outside, here they could live 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:18.400 inconspicuously with a bunch of their kids. Herville periodically visiting. 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.319 Dean Vest shared this house with a few of Herbal's wives, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.960 a woman called Lynda Johnson and her kids, and Vonda 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.880 White and her kids too. And this Saturday, Vonda had 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.120 told Vest she was going to cook him a special meal. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.560 When Vest arrived at their home that day, Vonda told 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:43.240 him the mill was ready. She told him to wash up. 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:48.960 She was dressed in pants top in a apron as 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.360 he bent over the sink to wash up, because he 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.679 had to do some serious bending, because this guy was 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:58.720 seven ft tall in his stockings. As he bent over, 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.920 she sneaked up behind him and gave him one in 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:07.120 the back, which pierced his lungs. When prosecutor Gary Remple 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.880 first started on the case, he used the evidence at 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.440 the crime scene to try to build a narrative. He 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:19.520 spun around, spewing blood from his mouth in a circle, staggered, 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.359 and collapsed on the floor. Were upon according to protocol, 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.679 she gave him one behind the ear. By this time, 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.920 Herville's colt had killed so many people they'd established a 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.800 methodology one behind the ear just to make sure they 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.200 were dead. As the shots were fired. Across the street 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.240 was an off duty police officer who won the launder 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.560 mat there. He was there emptying the boxes, collecting some money. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.120 Here's a couple of shots. Looks immediately in the direction 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:54.000 from which they came. He was able to scan both 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.400 the front door and the back area of the house 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.079 and saw that nobody ever left. This was great for 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.240 us because that puts Vonda the only person in the house. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.320 Shortly after arriving on the scene, the cops had suspected 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.480 Vonda might have been responsible, and so they brought her 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:21.440 in for questioning. June nine, the time of seventeen forty hours. 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:26.680 Interviewing officer is Detective E. T. Dece National City Police Department, 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:34.160 and her name please? And where you strict? All right, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.280 Mrs why, I'm going to read you your rights now 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.920 as guaranteed in the Constitution. I wish you would listen 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:45.440 to the rights as I reading. Listening into this police 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.800 interrogation with Vonda, you kind of get a sense of 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.880 what Gary Rample was up against well, accused of this 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.240 although there was no evidence supporting this. The way she 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:02.040 could lie so convincingly to police so on dramatically, honestly, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:07.120 it's pretty impressive. First of all, about the Colts previous murders, 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.560 which she blamed on Joel and Verlin. LeBaron's church said, 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.200 it was all the actions of the followers of the 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:19.040 Chill fundamentalists back in colonial LeBaron and members of their 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.360 church have gone directly to our people and have threatened 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.680 them with violence. And then when it came to the 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:31.680 Deanvest murder itself, referring to the occurrences of this plate, 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.440 can you tell me what happened in your own words 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.240 leading up to the time which police officers arrived. Yes, 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.200 I was at stairs with my children, and I've heard 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.760 his succession of shots. Okay, when you say subcession, is 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.320 that more than one? Can you give me an exact 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.520 count of shots? No, I know I heard more than mine. 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:58.000 That I was writing them them. Okay, where were you at? 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:04.360 I was in the upstairs band I okay? And we 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.640 were the children, all right. I had my little one 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.600 with me and the other children or in bedroom reading. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.320 Because everything you told me regarding the sense of participation, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:22.120 and since it had been a truth point, yes, even 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.400 if the cops did feel she was lying, what came 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:30.360 out during this interrogation was troubling. Vonda had an alibi 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.720 when the police arrived. She said she'd been upstairs reading 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.040 a naptime story and talking on the phone to Lynda 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.640 Johnson when she hears some shots that Lynda Johnson would 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.000 have heard too, because Lynda Johnson was her alibi, and 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.360 she came downstairs and found the horrible scene. Linda Johnson, 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:53.960 another of Rvil's wives. Lynda Johnson, was a very nice, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.720 stout woman who just did whatever Hervil asked and she 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.920 was ill treated by him and uh just used as 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:09.439 a servant. Basically, this servant was an expert forger able 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.320 to give members of the cult multiple identities, and because 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.280 the cult was operating in a period before electronic records 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:22.440 across multiple state and national boundaries. Her skills caused all 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:27.000 sorts of problems for law enforcement. But Linda and her 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.400 alibi weren't the only issue cops faced when it came 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.320 to solving the Dean Vest murder. There weren't any clean 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.199 prints on the murder weapon, for one. Also, they couldn't 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.280 figure out the motive just what had happened between Vanda 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.359 and the huge Dean Vest. You can hear that here 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.880 in their initial questioning with Vonda trying to work out 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.880 the motive. They were both known members of Hervil's cult. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:59.160 Why would she kill Dean? Have you recently ran the past? 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.320 And any disagree with Mr h The police have blanked 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.600 out Dean's name in the recordings here as anyone living 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.840 in the house at a discool Mr we random charms. 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:20.159 Gary stuck with it. I was able to defuse the alibi. First, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.639 he dug into Linda's background, found some welfare fraud and 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.399 used the threat of charges against Linda Johnson to spook 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.080 her into cooperating if she had testified in the trial. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.320 I could have easily impeached her, and so she chose 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.080 to stay in Denver and I never saw her again. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.480 Vonda's alibi was gone, but Vonda was still in the wind, 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.640 and Gary still didn't have a motive. The years passed 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:53.280 see and into February of seventy eight, but then Lloyd 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:59.119 Sullivan was arrested. Flipped the former Herville foot soldier now 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.960 with his axe to grind against Hervil. And once he 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.760 started giving information to the cops, he didn't just right 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:13.960 out Herville for the killing of Ruben Alred. I'm going 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:18.679 to show you a photograph. I recognize this photo. I 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.600 recognize this as a lady who calls herself Vonda White, 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.680 gene Wal a number of other aliases. Yes, I do 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:31.480 recognize that this is Lloyd Sullivan from that interview with 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:36.320 cops on March where he's about to lay out for them. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.920 Just why Vonda White shot Deean vest and herbal mmle 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.399 Baron told me he had turned trader to the Kingdom 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:50.479 of God. Excuse man must die, He must die because 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.840 he was a trader of the Kingdom in what period 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:54.920 of time with this must have been in the early 0:19:55.000 --> 0:20:00.160 part of and the next thing. I know Bonda White, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:06.280 he had had a commandment from herbal the killing. So 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.919 sometime later, I suppose you wanted to get it up 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:10.800 her chest. I don't know if she trusted Nick quite 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.800 well and indicated several times she thought quite well of me, 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.159 And it seemed like we were standing in the kitchen, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:24.399 and I can recall and vividly standing there and she 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:29.919 told me that she did indeed kill. That broke the 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.480 case wide open. Prosecutor Gary Remple couldn't believe his luck. 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.720 Sullivan told the story how Vonda White had killed Dean 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.000 vest She had intercepted a phone call or happened to 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.040 pick up an extension where he was arranging to meet 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:50.000 with the FBI in Seattle, where his wife had moved. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.280 He was defecting to the FBI, and he was going 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.160 to bring along a trunk full of automatic weapons, sniper rifles, 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.399 and explosives. What's more, Lloyd agreed to say all this 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:07.159 in court to take the stand. So Lloyd was instrumental 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:11.800 in Lloyd Lloyd was my principal witness. Then more good news. 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:16.640 In March seventy eight, not long after Lloyd's testimony, there 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:21.399 was another break in the case. Vonda was apprehended, but 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.840 it seems the good news couldn't last, and as the 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.959 case moved to trial, Lloyd got spooked. By now he 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:33.399 was effectively living in a witness protection program. He genuinely 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.440 feared for his life, and then he had his location 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.439 revealed by local newspaper in the Utah town where he 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.520 was hiding out. He was under an assumed name in 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:48.080 a small town in the suburb area of Salt Lake City. 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.240 They even published a picture of him, and Lloyd knew 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.720 better than anyone just how dangerous this was. After all, 0:21:56.200 --> 0:22:00.760 he'd helped plan many of the cults killings. He was 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:04.760 getting extremely paranoid. He was sure he'd be recognized in 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.960 that town and killed. Also, he had a drinking problem, 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:09.720 I should tell you that, so he wasn't in the 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:14.800 best of health. A drunk paranoid not exactly a good 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.400 mix for a man in hiding, and Lloyd was becoming 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.800 increasingly convinced that some of Hervill's killers were around each 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:27.639 corner waiting for him. He needed a new identity, something 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.240 to help him avoid detection. In May of seventy eight, 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.640 he called his handlers in the police and told them 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:38.399 begged them to help. So he's in a phone booth 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:44.200 prior to cell phones, calling the Salt Lake Police Department 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.280 where his connections were, And as that occurred, a car 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:54.639 drove by and backfired, mistaking it for a shot. He 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:59.760 died of a heart attack. Gary Remple's star witness, was 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:05.200 head killed, not by Herville, but by a backfiring car. 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.840 And that wasn't the only bump in the road that's 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:42.159 coming up after the break. It was the summer of 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.160 and the heat was on for Gary Remple, that prosecutor 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:51.040 who liked to stare down gang members and killers. As 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.479 the trial of Vonda White got underway, even he felt 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:59.080 an unnerving tension in the air, not just the usual 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:03.159 pressure on the cops and prosecutors for a conviction or 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:07.639 even a conviction against the coult With Herville still at large, 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.959 there was a real risk to life to everyone involved 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:16.600 in these court cases. Rvill Le Baron had taken his 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:19.800 belief in what he called the law of force and 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:24.240 morphed it into this blood atonement, a theology which wasn't 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:28.520 simply based on vengeance, but rather that a killing could 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:36.320 be a form of compassion. For her defense in court, 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.280 Erville's group had pulled their tithing and hired Vonda an 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:44.840 expensive team of private defense attorneys. We'd have these arguments 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:48.400 and they'd be a sidebar. They'd get quite animated. And 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:52.320 during one of these arguments, halfway through the case, things 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:56.680 were getting pretty heavy and suddenly the lights went out 0:24:56.680 --> 0:25:00.880 in the courtroom. At least one or two jur screamed. 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:04.240 I had grabbed one of the guys that was slouching 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:07.960 and put him in front of me with my back 0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:10.359 to the wall the courtroom. I had my back to 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:12.679 the wall, a defense attorney in front of me, and 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:15.800 I was pulling out my derringer. When the lights came 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:19.560 back on one of these guys slouching against the wall 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:24.159 had inadvertently turned off the lights. Gary's eyes light up 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:28.320 telling me this tale. He has this mischievous panache when 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:32.159 he's telling all his best stories. But the fact that 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.520 he grabbed someone else for cover, I think that shows 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:39.159 just how scared everyone actually was. A Hervill's colt at 0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:43.280 this point in the late seventies of their reach, would 0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:47.520 they really hit a courtroom mid trial? Gary clearly thought 0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:51.360 they might. And if Gary had sensed he had reason 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:54.359 to fear for his own life and just trying to 0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:59.160 prosecute this cult. He was right. The Colt had put 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:03.760 a hit out on Arry. In fact, during his investigation 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.720 into Rvil, a baron, the man himself had sent three 0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:11.400 of his most efficient assassins, his right hand man, Dan 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:17.240 Jordan's Marchin and Eddie Marston, to Gary's home to kill him. 0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:21.359 About eleven o'clock one night, I was awakened by a 0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:24.480 phone call from the San Diego Police Department that the 0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:28.520 FBI had just contacted them. FBI told him they'd wire 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:33.399 tap Rville, and the word came out. Rvill had ordered 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.600 three guys to come up and kill me, to drive 0:26:35.680 --> 0:26:37.480 up from en Sonata to my house and kill me. 0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:40.560 They had my address en sonatas about two hours from 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:44.240 where I lived. There. In the time it took the 0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:47.879 FBI to get this information from their wire tap relay 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:51.240 it to the cops who related it to Gary, precious 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:55.160 time had been lost. Rvil's hit team had a two 0:26:55.200 --> 0:27:00.119 hour drive to their target. So all I had was 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:02.800 a snub nose thirty eight and I was on a 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:04.280 cul de sac, and I didn't know if they were 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:06.199 coming up the cul de sac, so like I couldn't 0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:08.720 leave the area. So I ran across the street to 0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:11.480 the neighbor and I borrowed his German shepherd, big Dog, 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:15.000 and uh, I brought him to guard the front door. Well, 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:19.119 that German shepherd started whining. He could sense my attention. 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:23.200 I was high amps and he started whining and crying 0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:25.600 by the front door, and I thought, it's gonna be 0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:29.080 a liability if he defecates on the floor while I'm 0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:31.520 trying to shoot it out with these guys. So I 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:33.640 took him back to the neighbor and I stood there 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:36.320 for my thirty eight opened that the cops got there 0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:39.959 before the crooks, and uh, sure enough the cops made it. 0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:43.240 Then there's a bunch of cars. The hit team assigned 0:27:43.240 --> 0:27:46.720 to Gary must have seen those lights and aborted the mission. 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:50.720 Then along about then a couple of day investigators showed up. 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:54.719 And the byproducts of this whole episode was I had 0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:56.919 to move out of my house. I lived under a 0:27:56.960 --> 0:28:00.760 phony name in a hotel for a while until all 0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:04.639 this was over. Trying a member of hervill Abaron's colt 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:09.480 had nearly cost Gary his life, and then another setback. 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:12.320 In July of seventy eight, the judge in the case 0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:16.080 suddenly declared a mistrial. He didn't like my style because 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:18.400 it conflicted with his style, is what I think. We 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:21.240 were kind of going back and forth in time, and 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.399 I'm having a good old day in court as far 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.000 as I was concerned, and so we had a little argument, 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:29.920 and his cure for my misbehavior was to declare a mistrial. 0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:33.960 But maybe set back is the wrong word, because Gary, 0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:38.720 that kid from Stockton, was ready for another round. Gary 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:42.160 got some more insider information on the Colt. It turns 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:45.560