1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: On the night of April twenty third, nineteen eighty four, 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: outside of a convenience store in New Orleans, two young 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: men approached a couple and attempted to rob them at gunpoint. 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: In the struggle that ensued, one of the perpetrator's, seventeen 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: year old Eric Batiste, was shot and killed by his partner. 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: The shooter ran off, and the couple gave a description 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: of the shooter to the police. Eric and his friends 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: were well known to local cops. When the call came 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: over the radio, officer Marlon Defillo immediately thought of George Toka. 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: The two often ran together, so Defillo figured George may 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: have been Eric's partner in the posh robbery and pegged 12 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: him as the one who had killed Eric. When George 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: was brought in for questioning, he told police that although 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 1: he and Eric had been out with friends that night, 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: he'd left to spend time with his girlfriend at a 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: motel during the time of the robbery. At trial, the 17 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: prosecutor pointed out that the victims had id George in 18 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: a photo array, and the motel owner testified that he'd 19 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: never ran a room to a teenager like that. George. 20 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: Officer de Phillo's hunch must have been right, But then 21 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: a can This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction. 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: Today we're going to attempt to make sense out of 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: a situation that doesn't make any sense. It didn't make 24 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: sense back in nineteen eighty four when it happened. It 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense now twenty twenty three, almost forty years later. 26 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: None of this should have ever happened, but it did, 27 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: and the consequences are very real. Today we're going to 28 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: be telling you the story of George Toka, my friend 29 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: who is here with us after serving over three decades 30 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: in and Goala Penitentiary in Louisiana. So, George, I'm glad 31 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: we're finally doing this. It's such an important story and 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm so glad to have you here. 33 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for the faith, for everything you'll 34 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: commitment to the calls of convictions and stuff. 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: And with George today to help us tell this story 36 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: is Richard Davis. Richard is the legal director of the 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: Innocence Project of New Orleans, also known as IPNO, one 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: of the most respected innocence organizations not just in the 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: country but in the world. And I'm really happy Richard 40 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: to have you here. 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: Today, thank you and thank you for having us all. 42 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: So, George, what was your life like growing up? You 43 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: were just seventeen when this happened, So you're just a kid. 44 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 2: Yes, I came up and a single parent home. My 45 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: mom but that she had seven kids and we lived 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 2: in a new all the projects. Never met my father, 47 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: so it was it was tough and not having a 48 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: father there just watch my mom's struggle. 49 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 4: We didn't have much to eat. Close the West. It 50 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 4: was tough. 51 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: You were known as chicking George back Dan, which is 52 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: kind of where did you get that nickname from? 53 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 4: Was growing up? 54 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: Loved animals and we started stealing chickens and people don't 55 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: give me chickens. I ran away at the kid because 56 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 2: my stepdad became abusive to my mom. And so I 57 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: met a guy land Terrence, and his mother missus Burnt 58 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 2: and me. I just went to the house. I ain't 59 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: won't leave one day and she's like, well, you come 60 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: on in. So she really bought me clothes, help me 61 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: go to school and things like that. She was a 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: good woman. And see she gave me that name chicken 63 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: jaw after watching me after you know, the movie roots 64 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: and stuff and seeing me with chickens and I hate 65 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: I hate that lamb as I got older. 66 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 4: You know, but it stuck. 67 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: And tell me about your best friend, Eric Batiste. How 68 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: did you guys meet? 69 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: We met in about four to fifth grade, I think 70 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: at Phillips Weekly School. We met and we just instad 71 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: became instant France. And we had so much in common, 72 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: like I said, coming from broken homes and uh, we 73 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: just we just had like a real bob peer love. 74 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: But we were started leaving cut school together and just 75 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: to go to fence quarters on Burger Street just to 76 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: tap dance and shine shoes, just to earne food for cheeseburg. 77 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 4: You know, it was something to eat and some clothes 78 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 4: because it. 79 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: Would go home and there was no food at at home, 80 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: you know. Our mom was you know, they work or whatever, 81 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 2: didn't have any money for food. 82 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 4: So we just would fend for ourselves as kids. 83 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: And then we began to go to life of crime. 84 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: The tap dancing and the shin sho wasn't bringing in 85 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 2: much money, so we were begin to see the other 86 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: guys around our neighb would come in crimes, and so 87 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: we started doing that work around bringing in like machines 88 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. 89 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: So you and Eric were, as I understand it, pretty 90 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: well known to the neighborhood police as a couple of 91 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: young kids who were into these petty crimes. But it 92 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: turns out that Eric was also getting into much more 93 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: serious crime, which is what ultimately led his unforse an 94 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: untimely death and to your tragic, wrongful conviction. Richard, can 95 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: you tell us what happened on that fateful night of 96 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: April twenty third, nineteen eighty four. 97 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 3: Yes, So the crime that Georgia was arrested for, it 98 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: was two young men were seen trying to rob a 99 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 3: white couple in the early hours of the morning on 100 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 3: a street in New Orleans. It turned into an altercation 101 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 3: and one of the people trying to commit for robbery 102 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: accidentally shot the person he was with, a young man 103 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: named Eric Batiste, who was a seventeen year old who 104 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: was George's best friend. And so essentially what happened is 105 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: that even over a couple who had been robbed, they 106 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: had descriptions of the two people who robbed them, the 107 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 3: second robber did not match George's appearance at all. An 108 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 3: officer who knew George and knew Eric from the neighborhood 109 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: heard being radioedvert Eric Batist had been killed and that 110 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 3: the person who accidentally shot him was his accomplice. And 111 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 3: just for Eric batist best friend is George Toker. So 112 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 3: if someone was committing a crime with Eric Batist and 113 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 3: accidentally shot him, it was George Toker. 114 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: And the officer you're referring to was a local cop 115 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: named Marlon Defillo. 116 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: He and I definitely had a history, you know, coming 117 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: up in my little Lapeno crime looks career. The arrest 118 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 2: me a field time, I had a few wires out, 119 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: and so he knew me and Eric best friends, So 120 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: you know, he's the main reason why my name got 121 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: implicated in his crime. 122 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 4: You know, I didn't do it. 123 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: Which should have been obvious as soon as the two 124 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: victims described the man who had killed Eric Batiz to 125 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: the police. 126 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 3: So they described an a sailant who was I think 127 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: five ten or five eleven and who was older than Eric. 128 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 3: George was maybe five five or five six at the time, 129 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: and he also was a very young looking seventeen year 130 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: old two and he was significantly smaller both an Eric 131 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: and the description of the second person. 132 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: But even though George didn't fit that description. Officer to Pillow, 133 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: who had already fixed his sights on George for the murder, 134 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: completely ignored that fact. And there was something else about 135 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: George that would have been obvious to the victims had 136 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: he been the second assailant, yet they never mentioned it 137 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: when they were shown George's picture in a photo array. 138 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 3: George had extremely prominent gold teeth at the time, like 139 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 3: buck teeth, kind of that you could see with his 140 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: mouth closed. Even and Neave, a witness, described the person 141 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 3: that the shooter as having gold teeth. The mugshots, of course, 142 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: didn't show George's heights, so they didn't know he was smaller, 143 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 3: and his gold teeth weren't clear in the photos, and 144 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: then they made those identifications, and that's their case, and 145 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: that is the basis for George getting life without parole. 146 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: And I just wanted to take a quick second to 147 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: talk about how terribly unreliable eyewitness identifications can be. Now, 148 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: anyone can see that George doesn't match the description that 149 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: these two people gave, and yet they themselves id'd him 150 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: as the shooter after viewing his photo. Richard, can you 151 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: plane what might have been going on there? 152 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 3: So as far as we could piece it together. Twenty 153 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 3: to thirty years later, they were shown a photo array 154 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 3: containing George. Because it was a photo array rather than 155 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: a live lineup, his height isn't displayed in that and 156 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: it wouldn't have been apparent to them how distinctive his 157 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: gold teeth were, And so they make an identification from 158 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: a photo. I believe it was administered non blind, so 159 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: by an officer who knew who the suspect was in 160 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 3: the photo and vis across racial identification. So it's this 161 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: classic recipe for a wrongful identification. 162 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: So first off, the photos are not clearly displaying the 163 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: features that excluded George. In addition, it was non blind, 164 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: when the only way these should ever be done is 165 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: that the lineup should be administered by somebody who has 166 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: no knowledge of who the suspects actually are, nor any 167 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: contact with the investigators. But even more important than that, 168 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: in study after study, cross racial identification has been shown 169 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: to be less accurate than even just making a wild yes. 170 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: But back in nineteen eighty four, none of this was 171 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: known and probably should have been, but it wasn't known 172 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: or considered. 173 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 3: And then, as we see in a lot of cases, 174 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 3: once they have identified someone from a photo that becomes 175 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: the person they stick with and find ways to discount 176 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 3: all the contradictory evidence. 177 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean, had they even cared a tiny bit, they 178 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: could have looked beyond officer to Fillow's hunch and found 179 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: truly contradictory evidence. George, after all, had an alibi. Plus 180 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: there could have been alternative suspects. 181 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 3: Anyone looking at the case knows that the person they're 182 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 3: looking for is someone with a connection to Eric Patis, 183 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: So it's a pretty small universe of people to look at. 184 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 3: And George and his girlfriend they had been in a 185 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 3: place called the MRV Motel at the time of a crime. 186 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: They had been with a group of people including Eric, 187 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: earlier in the night. They had parted ways about four 188 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 3: hours before Eric was killed and had gone together to 189 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 3: the MRV motel rented a room there. 190 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: And let's not forget that George was underage. I mean, 191 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: he wasn't even close to being of age. But apparently 192 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: at the MRB Motel no things were a little more 193 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: fast and loose. He didn't necessarily need a credit card 194 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: or even ID to check in there. 195 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: When we investigated the case years later, it is not 196 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 3: hard to find a lot of people who knew that 197 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 3: that was the motel in the neighborhood you went to 198 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: when you were underage, because they didn't ask too many 199 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 3: questions coming back years later. We even had the priest 200 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: from the church across the road saying that this was 201 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 3: in nuisance business. They were always renting rooms to underage people. 202 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: George had no idea what had happened to his best 203 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: friend until the. 204 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 4: Next day when I got to know that my friend 205 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 4: was was cool. I couldn't believe it. I was just 206 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 4: in shot. I was going to the seeing more than 207 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 4: the villain. 208 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: But you know, my friend mother told me, I don't 209 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: go down there, Geordie might think you had something to 210 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: do with it. But then the next day, my friend 211 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 2: of mine, Ju told me that, George, you want to 212 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: know that you wanted for Erica's murder. And my life 213 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: is really just to stop from there. Because when I 214 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: went home and my mom was like, George, get your 215 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 2: stuff a run, I'm like, man, I didn't do it. 216 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 4: I'm not running. 217 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: So I always believed that, you know, the justicism was 218 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 2: the good guys, you know, the judges and the d's 219 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. 220 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: With rumors swirling around that the police were looking for him. 221 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: George thought he'd better go down to the station and 222 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: tell them he had nothing to do with Eric's murder. 223 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: But before he was able to do that. 224 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: They had a knock on the door and there was 225 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: Ball in the philot lead new pack hell bent on 226 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: a recipe, and he'll put my head out in the back, 227 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 2: like I got you, George, you know, and you're under 228 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: the rest of him. I'm like, I didn't do it, man, 229 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: I didn't kill my best friend. 230 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 4: I wasn't with Eric. 231 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: I was in a hotel when it helped. Man, You're like, yeah, 232 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: well I finally got you, and I'm like the fellow, 233 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: I didn't do it. 234 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 4: Man. 235 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: You know, he was so excited to get me in handcuffs. 236 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: So when he got me down to the priests and 237 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: he told her the two detective, this is George right here, 238 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: you know, and uh, he just throw me to the wolves. 239 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: Literally to the freaking wolves. Like Officer de Fello, the 240 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: precinct detectives were determined to pin Eric's murder on George 241 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: by whatever means necessary. 242 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,599 Speaker 2: And they beat me until I give me confessed. I'm like, 243 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: I'm not I didn't kill my best friend. I'm not confessing, 244 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: you know, I didn't do it. I've never killed nobody. 245 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 2: I'm not no murder and I didn't kill my friends, 246 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: so I'm not as signing nothing. And they beat me 247 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: in beat men. 248 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 4: But then after I got your abiavement a while the 249 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 4: tech a little bit road. He told me and said, 250 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 4: George just exceed, don't fit the description. 251 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: But uh they get your good lawyer and uh you 252 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: figured out working out, you know, working out. 253 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 4: On your home. 254 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by marsh mc cleannan, the world's 255 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,239 Speaker 1: leading professional services firm in the areas of risk, strategy 256 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: and people. It's legal and compliance department provides pro bono 257 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: legal assistance and other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. 258 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: Two days after his best friend was killed, George Toko 259 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: was arrested in charge for a second degree murder. He 260 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: spent the next year of his life in jail awaiting trial. 261 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: His attorney, Henry Julian, who had just recently left the 262 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: prosecutor's office for private practice, only visited George twice during 263 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: that entire miserable year. The third time they met was 264 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: on the morning of April fifteenth, nineteen eighty five. 265 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 4: I just went to court one Monday. He like, you ready, 266 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 4: we're going to try this morning. 267 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, it really and I say it is 268 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 2: eric mother out there is my family. 269 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 4: Nobody would there with my mom, my girlfriend Danielle. That 270 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 4: was it. 271 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't even I was going to try 272 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 2: out that moment for the first green murder, the faith, 273 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: the depth been. 274 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: And unfortunately George was also facing the note glorious Judge 275 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: Frank Shay. 276 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 3: Frank Shay took pride in how many jury trials he 277 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 3: could get through in a day, how fast he can 278 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: move his cases, not providing any kind of justice. 279 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: Some trials in front of Frank Shay went as quickly 280 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: as get this ninety minute. Yeah you heard that correctly. 281 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: Over his thirty three year career as a judge in 282 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: Section G of Louisiana Criminal Court, Louisiana went from thirteenth 283 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: to second in the nation for incarceration, and since his 284 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: reign ended, some of the faulty convictions coming out of 285 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: his court have been vacated. In addition to George, there's 286 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: Isaac Knapper, Elvis Brooks, one of our recent guests on 287 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: the show, and Calvin Duncan who we know to be 288 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: an absolutely breathtakingly brilliant prison lawyer who's helped a lot 289 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: of other prisoners with their appeals. But let's get back 290 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: to the trial. 291 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 3: George's lawyer had really done very little investigation of the case. 292 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 3: And this is not a not a difficult case to 293 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 3: investigate it. 294 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: Right, Like we talked about earlier, Eric Batist did this 295 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: with someone he knew, so there's not a long list 296 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: of potential suspects. And George's girlfriend Danielle was there to 297 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: testify that they had parted with Eric about four hours 298 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: before his death and gone to that infamous MRV motel 299 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: where it seems everyone in town knew that a very 300 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: young person could get a room. 301 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 3: But the defense law was not prepared for prosecution, calling 302 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: the owner, who, of course wants to protect his business, 303 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 3: and so I said, no, of course, you do everything 304 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 3: by the book. No wonder was young looking at George 305 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: would ever get to rent room there? Which is I 306 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 3: mean going back, we found just everyone from the neighborhood 307 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: knew that was the motel you can rent room when 308 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 3: you're underage. 309 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: Well, who knows what else was going on behind the 310 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: scenes there, Right, it's entirely possible that the cops either 311 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: threatened the motel owner or that he very well might 312 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: have faced some sort of charges himself. So for him, 313 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: it was probably expedient to go ahead and testify to 314 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: what they wanted him to say, right exactly. 315 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 3: I think that's always at least an employed for it. 316 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 3: When when you're running a somewhat sketchy business in law 317 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 3: enforcement comes cooling. You want to make law enforcement happy. 318 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: I mean, right off the bat, that would have been 319 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: a great way to impeach that witness. But George, it 320 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: just didn't even occur to your attorney. It just didn't 321 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: even think to raise that on cross examination. 322 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: He thought like he thought I was guilted. He didn't care. 323 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: He was so inferior of just Shaye and other people 324 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: either just scared the object or just doing anything. He 325 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: didn't have the investigative team. 326 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: You know. 327 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: He could have simply got the hotel phone records that 328 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: would exonerate me within thirty days instead of thirty years. 329 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: He could have got the dinal records for the gold teep. 330 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: He didn't go get that. He just didn't care. 331 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: But then there's a whole other element of this Richard, 332 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: which is the victim's family, what was their role in this? 333 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: Because they believed throughout in George's innocence, right, I mean 334 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: that would seem like some powerful testimony. 335 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: So I think what we see here is that for 336 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 3: police and prosecution, they wanted to treat Eric as a 337 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 3: victim so they could use a murder charge against George, 338 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 3: how they could get life of outprole against George. That 339 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 3: essentially they were only treating Veeric as a victim to 340 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: the extent that it helped them punish George, and nothing 341 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: to do with compassion for the family keeping even just 342 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: like basic professionalism in terms of keeping them informed. 343 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: And as a result of that, they weren't even notified 344 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: of the trial as I understand it against George. That 345 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: would be powerful for a jury to see the victim's 346 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: family sitting right behind the accused. I mean that's going 347 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: to have an impact on people, right, Yeah. 348 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 3: And I think when they heard the evidence about this older, 349 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 3: this older, taller person with son, they you know, they 350 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: already knew it wasn't George because they knew George wouldn't 351 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: like of them if he'd been responsible for Eric's death. 352 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 3: But they'd have had, you know, like additional that reallyesing 353 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 3: to know it wasn't George. If they known this description, 354 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: you know they know George, they know Eric, they know 355 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 3: George's modern the older too to hus and compared to Eric. 356 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: So predictably, George, you were convicted of second degree murder 357 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: and given a mandatory sentence of life in prison without 358 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: the possibility of parole. This was on April twenty third, 359 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five. But I have to ask how long 360 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: did the trial take and how long did the jury deliberate? 361 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: It was it was a two day trial. It was 362 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 2: it a circus. It was it just it wasn't nothing 363 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: done right. The judge kept rushing the winner's office. Stands 364 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: he had a five o'clock appointment to go to I 365 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: think I go to the golf golf events he had. 366 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 2: He had no respect for black people at all. And 367 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: and then most shocking, he sluck into the jury deliberating 368 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,479 Speaker 2: rum the second day of trial and directed the jury verdict. 369 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: Wait what the he went into the jury room during 370 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: the deliberations. 371 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 2: He got Tyler waiting for the jury to come out 372 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: the great rum, and he went in there and I 373 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: can it's a imagine that's what he told me to 374 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 2: kill him out there so he could leave, so the 375 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: track could show that he actually went into the jury 376 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: rum and discussing took part into the jury deliberation of 377 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 2: my trial. So after he came out of there, the 378 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: jury they all agreed the secondary murder and I was 379 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 2: wont for convicted. My first five years after being wont 380 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 2: for convicted, I just laid in the cell in the darkness, 381 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: this this in depressed and mold this shock, this disbelief 382 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 2: because that that system that then that just took my 383 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 2: life for for wrong, convicted of killing my best friend, 384 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: somebody I love. But but I know I knew I 385 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: was innocent. That the main thing I knew I didn't 386 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: kill my best friend. I was innocent, and I knew 387 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 2: that the truth will you know, will come out, and 388 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 2: so that that that would kept me strong like that 389 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: I didn't do it. 390 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 4: The whole neighborhood know, I didn't do it, the whole city. 391 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: No, I didn't do it, And I just do believe 392 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 2: that God knew and that it was gonna work. 393 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 4: Out for me. 394 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 2: So that's why I just just kept hold on to 395 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: mount mount troop and my faith and uh I began 396 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 2: to pass so you know, and God spoke to me, 397 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: you know, like like he let me know, like George 398 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 2: get in the position to be to be blessed. You 399 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 2: got you gotta start going low live Berry, get out, 400 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: get out the TV room, and and this depressed state 401 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: just sitting around crying about stuff that's not gonna change 402 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 2: or not. You gotta you gotta start doing something to. 403 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 4: Change the situation. 404 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: So I would begin to write innocent projects and stuff 405 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 2: like in Canada and uh New Jersey, I wrote, Oprah Winfrey. 406 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 2: I wrote, anybody, anybody can reach out for help, shall 407 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 2: my store? And then I, uh, Calvin came to Lord 408 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 2: Liberry when I said, man, I got an innocent product 409 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: and knew all that. 410 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: Richards comes back to you. Now, how did Ipno select 411 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: George's case and how do were you able to undo 412 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: this tragic miscarriage of justice? 413 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 3: I believe Calvin Duncan, another of our clients, recommended it, who, 414 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 3: as Calvin Duncan, was very active in our organization getting 415 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 3: started and in recommending a lot of our early cases. Really, 416 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: the investigation got going in about two thousand and three, 417 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 3: and so we filed in court for George on two 418 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 3: thousand and four based on investigation that had found evidence 419 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 3: as to who the taller, older person was with Eric, 420 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 3: who we found by talking to people in the neighborhood 421 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 3: and following up of rumors that George and his family 422 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 3: heard over the years to find out people who actually 423 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 3: had like direct admissible knowledge on the issue. And then 424 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 3: we filed a post conviction application in two thousand and 425 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 3: four and immediately stepped on a landmine because we moved 426 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 3: to a cues for judge, a judge named Julian Parker, 427 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: because the judge had been a prosecutor in the DA's 428 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 3: office of a time. George's case was tried, and the 429 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 3: judge did not take that well and it ended with 430 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 3: a judge not recused in us in front of that 431 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 3: judge trying to present George's case with a judge who 432 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: was not happy. He took it as a personal affront. 433 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 3: And so that's how George's litigation started with our office, 434 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 3: with us really offending the judge who was the decision maker. 435 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: So a really auspicious start with Judge Parker, but still 436 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: there was truly compelling evidence to support George's innocence claim. 437 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 3: In the course of our investigation, we had found fingerprint 438 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 3: lifts where it appeared that the person who had shot 439 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,479 Speaker 3: Eric had touched the car at the crime scene. We 440 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: filed in two thousand and four, and we're going to 441 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 3: move to have these fingerprints examined. We had located with 442 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 3: fingerprints and had them moved for safe keeping to the 443 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 3: head of Property evidence at a Clerk of Court's office 444 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: at a criminal court at two Lane Abroad on the 445 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 3: ground floor. And that's why they were on August twenty nine, 446 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 3: two thousand and five, when the levees broke and that 447 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 3: entire room went underwater, because it was the key crucial 448 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 3: evidence was being stored below sea level in New Orleans. 449 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 3: You know, cases are always a struggle, but we've never 450 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 3: kind of had a case that like started this badly 451 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: from when we started litigating. And George is very kind 452 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 3: to laugh because this was a cruel situation he was 453 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 3: putting from the get go. 454 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: So Hurricane Katrina literally washed away one of the greatest 455 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: hopes for relief in your case. You can't make this 456 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: stuff up. 457 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: When it's when it's say we found it, and they 458 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 2: hear that I'm like a part print or something he 459 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: touched the call, I'm like, you know, they're gonna show 460 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 2: me were one me and that you know, they don't 461 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: they don't examinerate me. So yeah, and they got that phone. 462 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 4: Go I was it was I would devastate it. That 463 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,120 Speaker 4: was the first time I actually. 464 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: But there was still a glimmer of hope. EPNO had 465 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: managed to track down multiple witnesses who had either given 466 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: affidavids or who had been willing to testify on George's 467 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: behalf at the original trial, but they were never called 468 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: by the defense. 469 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 3: They were with the group when they split up at 470 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: the like the night before the murder, and so they 471 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 3: knew that, like George and his girlfriend went one way 472 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 3: and Eric and a couple of other people went another way, 473 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 3: so they knew who Eric had left with and lo 474 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 3: and behold, it includes a guy called Edison Lierson, who 475 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 3: is an older, taller guy. And then additionally we found 476 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 3: people who had then seen Edison Lison just a few 477 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 3: hours after it was called killed, like in the area, 478 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 3: crying because he'd accidentally killed Eric, who were willing to 479 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 3: testify to this. And then we also had a lot 480 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 3: of witnesses who were willing to say of course MRV 481 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 3: rented to juveniles, so we had a lot of witness 482 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: testimony even without the documents. So we are to proceed 483 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 3: with that, even both on basis of George being actually 484 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: innocent and on the basis that if his lawyer had 485 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 3: done a better investigation, he could have presented at least 486 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 3: some of his evidence at George's trial and made a 487 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 3: difference of that way. So we went to court with that. 488 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: So how was this evidence received by Judge Parker. 489 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 3: After hearing all these witnesses testify. This is in front 490 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 3: of the judge. We had tried and failed to accuse him. 491 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: He was essentially more aggressive than for prosecuting, and the 492 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 3: judge says, I believe your witnesses are liars essentially, so 493 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: or I don't find them credible. So I'm not even 494 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 3: going to consider if you're entitled in utile and I'm 495 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 3: going to procedurally by you. So the judge kicked George's 496 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 3: case out of court. 497 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: But you were able to appeal that and managed to 498 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: get Georgia new hearing. And around this time, the US 499 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: Supreme Court had been making a number of landmark decisions 500 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: in juvenile justice, including Miller versus Alabama, in which mandatory 501 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: life without parole sentences were ruled unconstitutional for juveniles, and. 502 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 3: Of course George was a juvenile and had automatically been 503 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 3: given life without parole, so that was a question of 504 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 3: whether this was retroactive. And obviously being made eligible for parole, 505 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 3: being able to be possibly released, is better than nothing 506 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 3: for George, but it's not what he deserved. He's innocent, 507 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 3: he'd never had a fair trial. But we want to 508 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: want to shoot for every target we can to try 509 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: and improve Georgia's situation. 510 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: But when IPNO raised Miller versus Alabama as it applies 511 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: to George's case with the Louisiana Supreme Court, they ruled 512 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: that the statute did not apply retroactively, which was an 513 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: issue that the Supreme Court in the United States had 514 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: yet to reserve. 515 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 3: So we took the issue to the US Supreme Court, 516 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,479 Speaker 3: and the US Supreme Court actually chose George's case as 517 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 3: the one to grant Sergio rari for that they were 518 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 3: going to use his case to decide if a ban 519 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: on automatic juvenile life without parole sentences was retroactive. And 520 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 3: we have been lucky enough to get Brian Stevenson of 521 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 3: Equal Justice Initiative, who some trouble all lists know is 522 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 3: like the best in for business when it comes to 523 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 3: this kind of stuff going to argue George's case. And 524 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 3: at that point, as the case was getting ready to 525 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 3: be argued in the US Supreme Court, a district attorney's 526 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 3: office came to George with basically an offer of a 527 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 3: deal was made, and this was that George could get 528 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 3: out of prison but if they would essentially reduce the 529 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 3: murder charge to manslaughter they were also charging with armed robbery, 530 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 3: and he would be able to get out of prison 531 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 3: that day, but it wouldn't be an exoneration. He wouldn't 532 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 3: actually have to admit killing his friend, but he would 533 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 3: have the conviction in place for having killed his friend. 534 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: And so that is for position George was put in 535 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 3: and it was very very hard for him to accept this. 536 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: And New Orleans Parish District Attorney Leon Connezauer's decision here 537 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: is is pretty telling. I mean, let's face it, clearly 538 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: he had some trepidation about facing Brian Stevenson and probably 539 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: getting his ass handed to him before the Supreme Court. 540 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: But not only that they'd be facing off on a 541 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: case like. 542 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 3: George's, even amongst anyone who has been sentenced to juvenile 543 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 3: life without parole. George was unusually sympathetic. He was innocent 544 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 3: the crime and issue, while it was legally met with 545 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 3: a different definition of murder, it was an accident, and 546 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: he had, you know, this incredible prison record. So I 547 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 3: think looking at that, I think you can understand why 548 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 3: a prosecutor who may not want the barn automatic juvenile 549 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 3: life about pro to be made automatic, would not want 550 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 3: George to be the test case on the issue. 551 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: So George, at that point he made the heart wrenching 552 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: decision to take the sentence reduction, keeping your conviction in place, 553 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: and on January twenty ninth, twenty fifteen, you were finally 554 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: released after thirty long, miserable years, you. 555 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: Know, having to pick a pleeple's up. I didn't do 556 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 2: it in my bedfind I mean it was a double 557 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 2: name ya. I thought I'd walk out and victory elected 558 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: everybody else. But it was good to get out of 559 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: prism and being able to see my mom, you know, 560 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: seeing her if he spent the time my mondre. 561 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 4: She died not like a your other. 562 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 2: So that's the audit bright side, because coming home, it 563 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: was great to be out of jail. 564 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 4: It was a great eat some nice food, different restaurants. 565 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: You know, there's some pying with a lady that would 566 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: have But for me, my nightmare was still going on. 567 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 2: It was still difficult, been less situation, and just everywhere 568 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: I went, I was just getting duors slammed my fate. 569 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: I was still bogged down by a conviction for something 570 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: I didn't do. I was out, but not free. 571 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: But it's important to understand what George was up against. 572 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: At that time. No one knew how the Supreme Court 573 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: would have ruled on the retroactivity question. If they had 574 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: ruled against it, kind of Zara's plea deal would have 575 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: been gone and George would have had to continue his 576 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: appellate fight. If, on the other hand, they'd ruled in favor, 577 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: George would still be looking at a life sentence, but 578 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: with parole eligibility as well as a continued fight to 579 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: clear his name. So George took the plea and was released, 580 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: even if he wasn't truly free. However, in twenty sixteen, 581 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: almost exactly one year after George's release, the Supreme Court 582 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: of the United States ruled in Montgomery versus Louisiana that 583 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: the rule did apply retroactively. Had George not taken Connizzaro's deal. 584 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: How many times would he have been denied parole? Would 585 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: he otherwise receive justice on his innocent's claim in trial errors? 586 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: Who knows how much more time he would have spent 587 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: an Angola. So he took the deal in front of him, 588 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: as I think I and probably almost all of our 589 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: listeners would have done had we been faced with the 590 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: same Sophie's choice that George was. But the story doesn't 591 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: end there. Fortunately, there was a confluence of circumstances and 592 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: personalities that came together, starting with the twenty twenty election 593 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: of a new DA Jason Williams, who had represented George 594 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: in one of his early appeals. In addition, a new 595 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: reform minded judge, Nandy Campbell took the bench in Section 596 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: g off Louisian Criminal Court, the position previously held by 597 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: the notorious judges Shay and Parker. And finally, thanks to 598 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: the work of Hypno, a new law was passed in 599 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. 600 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 3: The one recognized that, for the first time in clear 601 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 3: or that proving your innocence with evidence, even if it 602 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 3: wasn't DNA, was a basis to vacating conviction, which was 603 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 3: something we never had when we were litigating George's case. 604 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 3: And second, gave prosecutors for power to essentially propose resolutions 605 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 3: to the court that the court could accept, even if 606 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 3: that wasn't necessarily a strictly legal right to for thing. 607 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 3: And so this would have been great for George, except 608 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 3: for that was for prosecutor problem because who was for 609 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 3: prosecutor on the case. 610 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: Since the new prosecutor, Jason Williams, had formally represented George 611 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: as an up and coming defense lawyer, he had to 612 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: recuse himself and could not propose a resolution in this case. 613 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 3: Fortunately, Judge Campbell appointed a special prosecutor, a guy named 614 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 3: Ron Wilson, who you know, had a real understanding of 615 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: the circumstances of Georgie case, and he's thought, well, the 616 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 3: appropriate use for prosecutor's power in this situation is that 617 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 3: we should vacate George is guilty plea conviction, it was unjust, 618 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 3: and that we should dismiss the case against him. This 619 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,479 Speaker 3: is not a case that should be prosecuted. And so 620 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 3: in September of last year, in twenty twenty two, George 621 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 3: was actually fully exonerated. 622 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: You know, like right now, since I've been exonerated. I 623 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 2: can sleep, I can dance, I can leave, I can 624 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: look hold my head up, I can look in the mirror, 625 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: you know, because that's who I am. I'm not a 626 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: mur I like right now is one big part. 627 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 4: I'm always dancing. 628 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: There and laughing, because yeah, that's that's my real proton. 629 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: Well, George, you deserve to be laughing. You've been through 630 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: so much and I know you're going to make the 631 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: best of everything that's coming up for you. And in fact, 632 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: you started your own business, a landscaping business called Royal Horticulture, 633 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: and I know you talk about it a lot. You 634 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: just love working outdoors, right, Yeah, I. 635 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 2: Keep my dope and and I won't be locked in 636 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: a where I love to be out you know, and 637 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 2: is my dream to be successful. 638 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 4: A landscape company as well as real estate. 639 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: Folks, if you're in the New Orleans area and you 640 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: need some landscaping work done, look up George Toka. We'll 641 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: have a link to Royalty Horticulture in the bio so 642 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: you can find them. So with that said, we now 643 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: turn to the closing of our show, which is called 644 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: Closing Arguments, And this is the part of the show 645 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: that first of all, I thank you, guys, Richard Davis 646 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: and George Toka, thank you so much for being here 647 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: and sharing this harrowing story. And now I'm going to 648 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: kick back in my chair, turn my microphone off, and 649 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: close my eyes and just listen for anything else you 650 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: want to share with our audience. So, Richard, once you 651 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: go first, and then George will take us off into 652 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: the sunset. 653 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 3: So I guess the thing for me is just seeing 654 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 3: the different is made to George, for difference between merely 655 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 3: being out of prison, being physically free, and the I 656 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 3: guess for want for better expression, spiritual freedom that has 657 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 3: come to him with being actually exonerated. And I think 658 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 3: that has just been so striking for me. We worked 659 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,959 Speaker 3: very hard on George's case, a lot of people working 660 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 3: on this case over the years, but I, you know, 661 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 3: always thought it was not just a shame but the tragedy. 662 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 3: But all we had managed was get him out of prison. 663 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 3: We hadn't gone in for a result he deserved. So I 664 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 3: think just seeing what the difference it has made to 665 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,919 Speaker 3: George being exonerated is. I think it's something we've said, 666 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 3: but I think it's bad saying again. 667 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: I like to say in Clauding that you know, America's 668 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 2: you know, one of the greatest countries, well degree the 669 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 2: country you know, in the world, and I love, love it, 670 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 2: but like I said, I know there's some some bad 671 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 2: things about our country, and one of them is the 672 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: you know, the justice system where a lot of the 673 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 2: predators and that some of the racist things that still exists. 674 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 2: You know, it's it's said that you know what happened 675 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 2: to me, and that that happens all over to other men, 676 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 2: particularly you know, young black men. How our lives are 677 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 2: just get destroyed behind some deed a lawyer who just 678 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: who just wanted for their career and not really valued 679 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: a human aspect to the job. And that would take 680 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 2: a young kid at seventeen or whoever age and just 681 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: destroys life like that, and just you know, Sinema Prinden 682 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: for the rest of his life. 683 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 4: I lost a lot. 684 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 2: I don't have any children, never been married, and a 685 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 2: lot of the years of my life was going I 686 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 2: can't get back, and I struggled with that at the time. 687 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: But I also gained a lot, and so you know, 688 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 2: I realized in my life, I can't live in anger 689 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 2: and all that and and be better that's not who 690 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 2: I am, and that's not a good way to live. 691 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 2: You know, my mind to it is like Jesus Christ, 692 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 2: you know the advice that he went about doing good. 693 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 2: So that's my thing every day to get up to 694 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: try to do good and to help people and to 695 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 2: perfectivelybor chain. Lit'll do just system, however, that's just will 696 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: live a be a good man and do good and 697 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 2: enjoy life. 698 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 699 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 700 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 701 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor Hall, 702 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: Andy Chelsea, and Lyla Robinson, as well as my fellow 703 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Clibern. The 704 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR 705 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across 706 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at 707 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at 708 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: It's Jason Flomm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava 709 00:36:54,160 --> 00:37:00,280 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one 710 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: the boy An, the land in the dun Y