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Speaker 1: Pushkin, It's going to be a busy fall on Happiness Lab.

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Speaker 1: I'll soon be embarking on a new season of shows

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Speaker 1: with some of the sweetest, most joyful co hosts. Imaginable

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Speaker 1: That's us with the help of Sesame Streets, Big Bird,

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Speaker 1: Grover and Abbi Kadapi, I'll be bringing you happiness hacks

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Speaker 1: that work whether you're age three or one hundred and three.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I am so excited.

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Speaker 1: Me too, Grover. And after all that, we'll launch into

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Speaker 1: an important news series about the ways we can share

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Speaker 1: happiness with those around us if we can bring ourselves

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Speaker 1: to be a bit more sociable. We'll look at how

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Speaker 1: to connect with strangers, how to deepen our existing relationships

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Speaker 1: with friends, and even how to negotiate the tricky move

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Speaker 1: of revving up friendships that have fizzled. But before all that,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't help but share a conversation I recently recorded

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Speaker 1: with best selling author Arthur Brooks. In the last few years,

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Speaker 1: Arthur has set up a new are at Harvard dedicated

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Speaker 1: to the same ideas that we discuss on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: called the Leadership and Happiness Laboratory, or just Happiness Lab

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Speaker 1: for sure. Arthur's work has gained legions of fans, with

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Speaker 1: people lining up all over to collaborate with him. A

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Speaker 1: lot of these folks are important and respected scientists and researchers,

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Speaker 1: but some are just well, absolute megastars.

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Speaker 2: I've just finished a book called Build the Life You Want,

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Speaker 2: The Art and Science of Getting Happier, co authored with

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Speaker 2: the Queen Oprah Winfrey.

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Speaker 1: I read Arthur and Oprah's book over the summer, and

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Speaker 1: I was totally hooked. It's not only full of smart

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Speaker 1: insights and great advice, that also touches on a question

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Speaker 1: that's close to my heart. How happy can happiness experts

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Speaker 1: really be? As someone who runs a lab on happiness

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Speaker 1: at Harvard and teaches about it to companies and leaders

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Speaker 1: all over the place, someone who doesn't know you might

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Speaker 1: assume that you are, by nature a very happy person,

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Speaker 1: that happiness comes easy to you.

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Speaker 2: Is that the case? It is not? And you know

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Speaker 2: happiness is funny. You've been in the happiness business for

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Speaker 2: a long time, and you and I both know most

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Speaker 2: of the practitioners of happiness science, as it were. They're

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Speaker 2: not desperate, they're not dark necessarily, but happiness is a

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Speaker 2: bit of a struggle for them, and what they figured

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Speaker 2: out is as social scientists, they can turn their toolkit

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Speaker 2: on themselves. And that's certainly the case for me. We

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Speaker 2: know based on the research that about half of your

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Speaker 2: baseline mood from day to day, good and bad, positive

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Speaker 2: and negative, it's genetic, and I have gloomy genetics. I

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Speaker 2: have on both sides of my family, got a lot

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Speaker 2: of gloomy people. And I figured out along the way,

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Speaker 2: after I really got interested in this topic, that I

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Speaker 2: was interested in it because I wanted more of it.

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Speaker 2: The problem was I was treating it as if it

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Speaker 2: were something I could observe but not affect through my habits.

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Speaker 2: And I said, well, that doesn't make sense. This is

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Speaker 2: supposed to be a hands on science. You were supposed

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Speaker 2: to be able to help people with psychology and behavioral

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Speaker 2: economics and change their behavior. Professor teach thyself, I said

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Speaker 2: to myself in the mirror one day, and Lauria, it worked.

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Speaker 1: I need some help on this insight from your wife.

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Speaker 1: I think that she was one of the people who

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Speaker 1: pointed out this importance of applying this to yourself, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 2: She pointed out the irony that I was a gloomy

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Speaker 2: happiness expert. I mean, come on, I was talking about

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Speaker 2: happiness because it was so incredibly interesting, and I was

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Speaker 2: hearing back from people that would read whatever I'd written

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Speaker 2: saying it was very helpful. But I wasn't actually trying

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Speaker 2: not only to use it for myself, I wasn't actually

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Speaker 2: talking about the applications of it. And part of the

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Speaker 2: reason is because you and I are trained as academics,

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Speaker 2: and academic papers don't have a section called how to

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Speaker 2: use this in your life. On the contrary, that would

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Speaker 2: get an automatic rejection from an academic journal. It would

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Speaker 2: be stripped out by the editors. But that's really what

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Speaker 2: people need, isn't it. And my wife was the one

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Speaker 2: who pointed out that I was doing work that could

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Speaker 2: be useful, but wasn't I think her words were, don't

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Speaker 2: you have a PhD for a reason? And she was

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Speaker 2: right and it changed my life.

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Speaker 1: And one of those changes was really like writing down

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Speaker 1: what you wanted to do. I love this idea that

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Speaker 1: you wrote yourself a mission statement when you came to

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Speaker 1: this work. What was in the mission statement?

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Speaker 2: The mission statement was I had a lot of different interactions,

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Speaker 2: but they all came down to the following. I was

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Speaker 2: in my mid fifties at the time, I had, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, twenty good years left in my career. Academics

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Speaker 2: tend to work fill they're pretty old. And I was

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Speaker 2: going to spend the rest of my life lifting people

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Speaker 2: up and bringing them together in bonds of happiness and love,

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Speaker 2: using science and ideas full stop. And I started doing it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, I'm telling you, Laurie, it's amazing

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Speaker 2: because when I basically did three things, I had learned

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Speaker 2: that you need to understand, you need to change your habits,

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Speaker 2: and you need to teach it to others. And so

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Speaker 2: that's really what I did. I'd been really good at

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Speaker 2: learning the science, but I had not been so good

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Speaker 2: at changing habits for myself or others, and I'd not

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Speaker 2: taught it. And so I did those three things in sequence,

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Speaker 2: and the gears started to turn in my life and

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Speaker 2: I started to really have a big impact in the

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Speaker 2: lives of other people, which was what I wanted.

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Speaker 1: And You've had lots of amazing partners in that impact

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Speaker 1: on other people. I know you've done work with the

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Speaker 1: Dalai Lama and all kinds of like academics in the

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Speaker 1: field of happiness science, but most recently, you've been able

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Speaker 1: to connect with, as you put it, the Queen herself,

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Speaker 1: win Free. I'm so curious how did that first meet?

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Speaker 2: And go?

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Speaker 1: Like? Did you just get a call and the caller

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Speaker 1: idea said Oprah Winfree, Like, how did that work?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Hi, this is Oprah Winfrey And I said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I'm Batman. You know who's spoofing me today? It

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Speaker 2: wasn't exactly like that, because you know, there's lots of

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Speaker 2: layers of communication, and so it turns out that she

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Speaker 2: reads my column in the Atlantic, and my column in

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Speaker 2: the Atlantic was an effort to bring the best ideas

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Speaker 2: in academia, including yours, to these massive audiences of people

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Speaker 2: that ordinarily wouldn't read academic journal articles. It's the same

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Speaker 2: kind of mission as the Happiness Lab, which is to

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Speaker 2: not popularize, but to make accessible these ideas to people

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Speaker 2: because they're so critically important. This is something you've dedicated

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Speaker 2: yourself to as well. And I don't know who reads

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Speaker 2: the Atlantic column. You know, it could be anybody. Turns

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Speaker 2: out one of them was Oprah. During the lockdowns for

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Speaker 2: the coronavirus epidemic, she was at her house in Monticito, California,

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Speaker 2: and she wasn't really leaving the property. So she was

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Speaker 2: reading a lot and learning a lot and using the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to, you know, get interested in new things. And

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Speaker 2: one of those things happened to be the call. And

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Speaker 2: so when my last book came out, which was called

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Speaker 2: from Strength to Strength, about how to build a life

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Speaker 2: that made you happier as years went by. It was

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Speaker 2: a strategic plan for people in the second effort their lives,

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Speaker 2: because we need a happiness plan for the rest of us.

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Speaker 2: She read that and called up and said, I want

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Speaker 2: you to come on my book club podcast. She has

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Speaker 2: this thing called super Soul, which is a very good

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Speaker 2: podcast where she reads a book and boy does she

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Speaker 2: ever read the book. I mean she was quoting to

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Speaker 2: me from my book by memory. She's that good. And

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Speaker 2: we had a long conversation. It was like a house

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Speaker 2: on fire. It turns out that she and I have

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Speaker 2: a very similar mission about trying to lift people up

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Speaker 2: and bring them together. That's what she wants. But she's

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Speaker 2: been in a different world than me, and so after

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Speaker 2: that we said, wow, this is a synchronicity. We did

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Speaker 2: a couple of other things together on the internet, and

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Speaker 2: finally she said, you know, if I had my show still,

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Speaker 2: she said, I would have had you on the show

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Speaker 2: twenty or thirty times, and that would have introduced you

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Speaker 2: to the American public. Why don't we do something like

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Speaker 2: that in the form of a book. I said, let

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Speaker 2: me think yes, because it's great, and I got an

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Speaker 2: opportunity to work with her, and so I went out

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Speaker 2: and I spent some time in her place and we

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Speaker 2: cooked it up in person, just really, you know, this

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Speaker 2: chapter should do this, and here's the big challenge. And

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Speaker 2: it's interesting because her input to it was so critical

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Speaker 2: for focusing what I was trying to get at. There

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Speaker 2: were some critical moments when she made the book real

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Speaker 2: by saying this is the wrong question or this is

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Speaker 2: the wrong title. Is really really, really valuable. And then

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Speaker 2: we went away and we independently worked on it and

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Speaker 2: setting chapters back and forth, and now it's coming true.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely love the book, and this is you know,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot about how we can translate you know,

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Speaker 1: so many different findings and so many different insights, and

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Speaker 1: you both have just done it in such an elegant way,

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Speaker 1: in such a suggest of a way.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I just have to tell you, Lorie

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Speaker 2: Santos loves my book. You realize how much that means

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Speaker 2: to me. I mean, you're, I mean you're, you're you're

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Speaker 2: such a big figure in this field. I mean, you're

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Speaker 2: you're so inflecting in the way that this field has gone.

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Speaker 1: I just I'm showing Arthur the book, and you can

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Speaker 1: see he can see that it's got like all these

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Speaker 1: post it notes stuck in of like different notes about

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Speaker 1: oh that was such a cool point about humor and

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Speaker 1: Saint Augustine and all this. So you should get it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're made. Thank Thank you, Laurie. I really really

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Speaker 2: appreciate that a lot, because your work has meant so

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Speaker 2: much to me.

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Speaker 1: Dido. But I mean so one of the big premises

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Speaker 1: of the book that I absolutely adored is this idea

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Speaker 1: that happiness is not a destination, it's a direction. It's

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Speaker 1: not a state of being, it's a state of doing.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean with that?

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Speaker 2: You know, everybody, when you ask them what do you

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Speaker 2: want to say? I want to be happy and a

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Speaker 2: Socrates says, and St. Augustine says the same thing. You

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Speaker 2: know is he says without proof because it's so obvious

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Speaker 2: that everybody wants to be happy. But actually that's craziness

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Speaker 2: because happiness is a destination is completely unattainable. And you've

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Speaker 2: said this in your show, and you've said this in

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Speaker 2: your research for so long, that we need on happiness

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Speaker 2: in our lives to stay alive. By the way, I

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Speaker 2: mean that you know the work on emotions that you've

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Speaker 2: contributed to and that so many of my colleagues here

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Speaker 2: at Harvard have as well, on the science of emotion,

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Speaker 2: that negative emotions keep you alive, sadness discussed, anger, grief,

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Speaker 2: these emotions, these basic emotions, we need them or will die.

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Speaker 2: And if we have these things, we can't have pure

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Speaker 2: and unremitting happiness. So it's the wrong goal. It's a

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Speaker 2: goal that we can't attain. It's El Dorado, the city

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Speaker 2: of gold in South America that the Spaniards died keep

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Speaker 2: trying to find because it didn't actually exist, and so

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Speaker 2: understanding that is important. Look, you want to direct yourself

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Speaker 2: toward happiness, understand what it might mean. Understanding also that

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Speaker 2: you can't attain it in this life. But in pursuing

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Speaker 2: this goal, you're going to get what you really wanted

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Speaker 2: all along, which is to get happier. Oprah really nailed

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Speaker 2: this point down. We were talking about it. She said, So

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Speaker 2: you're saying, she calls me, professor, professor, that the point

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Speaker 2: is not happiness. The point is happierness. That's the directionality

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Speaker 2: of the best life is happierness. This is really what

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Speaker 2: we want. And I'm telling you because I know that.

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Speaker 2: But it pointed out this critical truism to me that

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Speaker 2: helped me understand my own research. It helped me understand

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Speaker 2: what I was trying to do with my own life,

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Speaker 2: and it started to make me personally, or the course

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Speaker 2: of writing this book, more comfortable with my own misery

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Speaker 2: because in that happiness, I can use that unhappiness. I

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Speaker 2: can grow and learn from that unhappiness and have it

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Speaker 2: be part of my happierness.

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Speaker 1: So in this journey towards happierness, you also make the

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Speaker 1: point that we need to get the coordinates right, which

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Speaker 1: is tricky because we need to know what happiness or

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Speaker 1: happierness really is. And so give me your definition of happiness,

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Speaker 1: what are the different parts.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of definitions of happiness that have

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Speaker 2: come up in the social science literature, and you know

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Speaker 2: that's disconcerting to a lot of people. As if we

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Speaker 2: somehow disagreed across the field, and that's not true. I

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Speaker 2: was trained as an economist.

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Speaker 1: We'll forgive you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that. I've tried to, you know, make

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Speaker 2: my way over to the psychology world along the way.

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Speaker 2: You know, for example, economists you say, what's money. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's the currency of everything that we're doing, sort of

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Speaker 2: like happiness is the currency of how we're trying to

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Speaker 2: build our lives. And economists will say it's a medium

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Speaker 2: of exchange. No, no, no, no, it's a store of value.

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Speaker 2: Those are both true, and it depends on what you're

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Speaker 2: actually trying to get at. And so if you look

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Speaker 2: at the science of happiness just to descriptively understand what

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Speaker 2: the experience of happiness is, it's one thing. But if

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Speaker 2: you're trying to build a definition of happiness that helps

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Speaker 2: people put together a game plan for how to get happier,

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Speaker 2: that's a different thing. And that's usually how I come

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Speaker 2: at it, because I'm trying to do something that people

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Speaker 2: can use to build their lives. Aka the title of

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Speaker 2: the book, how to Build the Life you Want. So

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Speaker 2: I think about happiness in terms of the three macro

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Speaker 2: nutrients of it and again, this is completely compatible with

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Speaker 2: all the more traditional psychological definitions of happiness. So the

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Speaker 2: free macronutrients are sort of the protein, carbohydrates and fat

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Speaker 2: of happiness, which you need and balance and abundance to

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Speaker 2: score high on the happiness indicies. And again there's a

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Speaker 2: ton of psychometrically valid ways to measure well being that

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Speaker 2: you and I have worked on over the course of

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Speaker 2: our careers. There are a lot of bad ways to

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Speaker 2: do it too, but there are a lot of good ways,

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Speaker 2: and you find the people who score high they're balanced

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Speaker 2: and abundant in three dimensions enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. You

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Speaker 2: need to enjoy your life, which by the way, is

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Speaker 2: not straightforward, not the same thing as pleasure. You need

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Speaker 2: to have satisfaction, which is really paradoxical because it's you know,

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Speaker 2: Mick Jaggers saying I can't get it. The truth is

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Speaker 2: you can get it, you can't keep it, which is

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Speaker 2: a real problem. And last, but not least, there's meaning.

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Speaker 2: And meaning is just completely full of sadness and difficulty

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Speaker 2: and sacrifice. And so the result is ironically that it

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Speaker 2: requires a lot of unhappiness, and that so each one

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Speaker 2: of those macronutrients takes a game plan, as it turns out,

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Speaker 2: and that's a lot of what we write about the

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Speaker 2: book how to get it and then how to embrace

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Speaker 2: the inevitable unhappiness that comes along with it, so that

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Speaker 2: you can have happiereness along the way.

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Speaker 1: And so there's this interesting irony with these three parts

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Speaker 1: of happiness, which is that you know, I think we

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Speaker 1: often assume that we'd get to happieriness by things going

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Speaker 1: our way, everything going smoothly, amy avoiding any potential suffering

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Speaker 1: or problems. But in each of those three ingredients, the

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Speaker 1: research seems to show that those parts of happiness come

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Speaker 1: because of this suffering, not in spite of it. And

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Speaker 1: this fits with this general idea that happiness takes work,

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Speaker 1: it takes kind of effort, but it also takes problems

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Speaker 1: and challenges. You talk about some of these different aspects

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Speaker 1: of happiness and how the suffering.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, and I know that this is something you

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Speaker 2: talk a lot about in your famous class at Yale.

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Speaker 2: You don't just help people not suffer, you help them

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Speaker 2: to put their inevitable human suffering in context, which is

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons that people love the class. So

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Speaker 2: much because it finally rings true. It's not just some

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Speaker 2: internet hack, you know, It's really about how to be

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Speaker 2: fully alive. As you know, when I look at your

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Speaker 2: syllabus and I've listened to the way that you lecture,

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Speaker 2: it's like this is a fully alive class with Marie

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Speaker 2: Santos at Yale and people like finally somebody who understands

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Speaker 2: that I'm a human, breathing being and there's nothing defective

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Speaker 2: about me because I'm sad today, and this really is

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Speaker 2: part of how happierness works. The first is enjoyment. The

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Speaker 2: biggest problem that people have with enjoying their lives is

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Speaker 2: that they mistake enjoyment with pleasure. People who pursue pleasure

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Speaker 2: but not enjoyment, they never get happier. Pleasure is actually,

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Speaker 2: you know, itself, not a component of happiness, and pursuing

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Speaker 2: pleasure per se leads to addiction and usually misery. There's

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Speaker 2: never been anybody I've ever talked to or heard of

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Speaker 2: who says, my happiness secret is methamphetamine. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: and almost anything that you pursue for the pleasure of

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Speaker 2: that will lead you in the wrong direction. Here's sort

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Speaker 2: of the way of thinking about it. Which is that

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Speaker 2: enjoyment starts with pleasure, but it adds sociability and memory,

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Speaker 2: it adds people in memory or communion with others, and consciousness.

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Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of neuroscience behind this. You need

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Speaker 2: to have a pleasurable experience, but you need to be

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Speaker 2: able to remember it, and you need to be able

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Speaker 2: to share it with other people, and then it becomes

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Speaker 2: this enjoyment that involves higher parts of your brain. Is

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Speaker 2: the way that it works. So here's kind of the

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Speaker 2: rule of thumb that I talk about. If there's something

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Speaker 2: that gives you a lot of pleasure and you're doing

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Speaker 2: it over and over again alone, you're on the wrong track.

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Speaker 2: Now I realized there's certain things that you do alone,

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Speaker 2: but a loneness actually is a problem with a lot

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Speaker 2: of these pleasure based activities. And you know, there's a

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Speaker 2: reason that Anheuser Bush doesn't do beer ads showing some

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Speaker 2: guy pounding a twelve pack alone in his apartment. Why

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Speaker 2: because they know that that's pleasure that doesn't lead to happiness.

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Speaker 2: They show a bunch of people with their family and

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Speaker 2: friends crack and open a cold Budweiser and having a

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Speaker 2: big drink and having a nice time together in making

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Speaker 2: a memory, because that leads to enjoyment, and enjoyment leads

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Speaker 2: to happiness, and they want to be a happiness company,

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Speaker 2: and that's great. The same thing is true with almost

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Speaker 2: anything that we do. If you're alone in Vegas at

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Speaker 2: three am in front of a slot machine and nobody

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Speaker 2: knows where you are, you're probably not pursuing a happiness strategy.

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Speaker 2: And it's the same set of principles as the way

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Speaker 2: that works.

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Speaker 1: Out, and things get worse in terms of the kind

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Speaker 1: of stresses you need to build in. When we're talking

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Speaker 1: about satisfaction, right, we tend not to really be satisfied

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Speaker 1: with stuff that's super easy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I mean you talk so compellingly about

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Speaker 2: the hedonic treadmill. I've heard you talk about it, and

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Speaker 2: the way that I really understood it was like looking

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Speaker 2: at your stuff and listening to you, actually, because it's

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Speaker 2: so clear the way you talk about it. So, first,

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Speaker 2: what is satisfaction. Satisfaction is really the joy you get

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Speaker 2: if you work for something. So if you don't have

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Speaker 2: to work for something, there's really no satisfaction. If one

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Speaker 2: of my graduate students cheats to get an A in

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Speaker 2: my class, there's no satisfaction with the A. But if

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Speaker 2: they stay up all night, even though the A is trivial,

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Speaker 2: nobody cares. But if they work hard for it, they

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Speaker 2: get a lot of satisfaction from it. Problem is that

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Speaker 2: that satisfaction doesn't stay around because we have a natural

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Speaker 2: human tendency toward what neuroscientists call homeostasis. Homeostasis is anybody

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Speaker 2: who listens to the Happiness Lab knows is that nothing lasts,

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Speaker 2: none of your emotions last, and all of your biological

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Speaker 2: processes always return to equilibrium. So, for example, you can't

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Speaker 2: stay angry that long, you can't stay sad, you can't

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Speaker 2: stay happy, you can't stay joyful. Your moods they change

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Speaker 2: because your moods are signals to you that something is

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Speaker 2: happening that you should react to. So you don't want

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Speaker 2: somebody to stay in a particular mood because they won't

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Speaker 2: be ready for the next That are circumstances. People misunderstand emotions,

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Speaker 2: people think of them as nice to have or wish

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Speaker 2: could avoid all these other ones. No, no, no, no. This

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Speaker 2: is the machine language of life that translates what's going

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Speaker 2: on around you into how you should react. And it's

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Speaker 2: the universal language. It doesn't matter where you're from or

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Speaker 2: what language you speak. We all have these same emotions,

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Speaker 2: so we should be really really grateful for them. We're

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Speaker 2: always chasing the good ones. They don't last, so we

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Speaker 2: can be ready for the that are circumstances. Mother nature

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Speaker 2: tricks us into thinking that if we get that nice emotion,

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Speaker 2: we will keep it forever. I mean, mother nature lies

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Speaker 2: to us a lot, you know. Mother nature says you

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Speaker 2: can keep that satisfaction. You'll love that watch forever, that

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Speaker 2: car forever, that house forever, that relationship forever. And then

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Speaker 2: when you don't have it, you conclude that you needed more,

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Speaker 2: and so you run and run and run, and that's

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Speaker 2: your hedonic treadmill, which of course is a metaphor running

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Speaker 2: to get the feeling, running to get the feeling again

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Speaker 2: and again and again. That's the problem, and that's a

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Speaker 2: really painful thing that we have to come to terms

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Speaker 2: with that we can't just have more and suddenly be

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Speaker 2: permanently satisfied. And it makes life feel like a real tyranny.

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Speaker 2: But it gives you a whole lot of learning and

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Speaker 2: growth if you have a real life strategy for how

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Speaker 2: to deal with it and a balance an abundant.

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Speaker 1: Way, and the same kind of struggle that we need

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Speaker 1: is true for purpose.

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Speaker 2: For sure too right, for sure? You know the question

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Speaker 2: that's almost a cliche, you know, what's the meaning of life?

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Speaker 2: You go to the cave and the Himalayas and the

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Speaker 2: Guru in there, and you sit at his feet and say,

401
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Speaker 2: your holiness, what's the meaning of life? You know, there's

402
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Speaker 2: a million jokes kind of around that, But the truth

403
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Speaker 2: of the matter is that's the wrong question because it's

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Speaker 2: too general. Philosophers and even some psychologists that you and

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Speaker 2: are familiar with, have broken the meaning question into three parts.

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Speaker 2: We call them coherence, purpose, and significance. So coherence is

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Speaker 2: the question why do things happen the way they do?

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Speaker 2: The purpose question is what am I trying to do

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Speaker 2: with my life? What's the arc of my life? Was

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Speaker 2: the goal of my life? And significance is why does

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Speaker 2: it matter that I'm alive? And you need answers to

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Speaker 2: those questions. I've actually found that there's a kind of

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Speaker 2: a two question diagnostic. I can ask my students or

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Speaker 2: anybody that they need answers to. If they don't have answers,

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Speaker 2: then they have a meaning crisis. Question number one, why

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Speaker 2: are you alive? Question number two for what would you

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Speaker 2: be willing to die today? And it is extraordinary how

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Speaker 2: many people can't honestly answer that question to their own satisfaction.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some people will give you answers that are plausible,

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Speaker 2: but they don't actually believe them. See this with a

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Speaker 2: lot of young adults that one of the biggest problems

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Speaker 2: that they have is they can't answer those questions, which

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Speaker 2: is signaling blinking lights on the seven forty seven dashboard

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Speaker 2: of happiness, of coherence, purpose and significance. Is they can't

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Speaker 2: answer those two questions, why am I alive? And for

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Speaker 2: what am I willing to die? I remember with my

427
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Speaker 2: own kids, I mean, I have adult kids, and it's

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Speaker 2: super fun for them to, you know, be the children

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Speaker 2: of the social scientists. As you can imagine. Becau said,

430
00:19:31,076 --> 00:19:32,676
Speaker 2: Dad's working on a book. He's asking a lot of.

431
00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:33,636
Speaker 1: The two questions.

432
00:19:33,636 --> 00:19:35,996
Speaker 2: Again, Dad, Yeah, no, for sure. But you know, my

433
00:19:36,036 --> 00:19:38,116
Speaker 2: middle son, it was really hard for him. I mean

434
00:19:38,156 --> 00:19:39,996
Speaker 2: he was a cut up and you know, the most

435
00:19:40,036 --> 00:19:42,836
Speaker 2: popular kid in high school, but he wasn't actually happy

436
00:19:42,996 --> 00:19:45,756
Speaker 2: and it was really a meaning crisis for him. And

437
00:19:45,756 --> 00:19:47,836
Speaker 2: I remember asking those questions like I don't know dad,

438
00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:50,476
Speaker 2: and when it was time for him to go to college.

439
00:19:51,036 --> 00:19:52,716
Speaker 2: This is where the rubber hits the road, you know,

440
00:19:52,756 --> 00:19:56,316
Speaker 2: this is where you can use this to help people

441
00:19:56,356 --> 00:19:59,596
Speaker 2: you love. I said, you shouldn't go to and this

442
00:19:59,636 --> 00:20:02,316
Speaker 2: is hard for me. I'm a college professor. You shouldn't

443
00:20:02,316 --> 00:20:04,636
Speaker 2: go to college until you have some answers to these questions.

444
00:20:04,716 --> 00:20:06,916
Speaker 2: How are you going to find the answers to these questions?

445
00:20:06,956 --> 00:20:08,436
Speaker 2: And he thought about it, and he said, he's a

446
00:20:08,436 --> 00:20:12,516
Speaker 2: big canet boy. You know, he's a big, hard working, strong,

447
00:20:12,796 --> 00:20:15,476
Speaker 2: handsome he's six foot four. And he said, I want

448
00:20:15,516 --> 00:20:17,756
Speaker 2: to go work with my hands by myself. And he

449
00:20:17,796 --> 00:20:20,996
Speaker 2: became a dry land wheat farmer for two seasons. It's amazing,

450
00:20:21,036 --> 00:20:22,916
Speaker 2: you know. He was digging rocks out of the soil

451
00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:25,836
Speaker 2: and building fences and cutting down trees and spending long

452
00:20:25,916 --> 00:20:28,116
Speaker 2: days by himself. And then he joined the Marine Corps,

453
00:20:28,516 --> 00:20:29,996
Speaker 2: which was a hard thing to do. And boy, they

454
00:20:30,036 --> 00:20:31,836
Speaker 2: ever test you. And he became not just a marine,

455
00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:34,236
Speaker 2: he became a Special Forces Marine. He's a scout sniper

456
00:20:34,276 --> 00:20:36,396
Speaker 2: in the Marine Corps, which is scary for me and

457
00:20:36,436 --> 00:20:38,636
Speaker 2: his mom, I can tell you, but he's got answers. Now.

458
00:20:38,716 --> 00:20:41,916
Speaker 2: He found the answers six years later after graduating from

459
00:20:41,996 --> 00:20:43,636
Speaker 2: high school. If you ask him, I'll say his name

460
00:20:43,636 --> 00:20:46,716
Speaker 2: is Carlos. I say, Carlos, why are you alive? And

461
00:20:46,796 --> 00:20:49,836
Speaker 2: he says, because God made me. I say, Carlos, for

462
00:20:49,876 --> 00:20:53,196
Speaker 2: what would you be willing to die today? Immediate? He says,

463
00:20:53,356 --> 00:20:55,436
Speaker 2: my faith, my family, my friends in the United States

464
00:20:55,436 --> 00:20:59,076
Speaker 2: of America, mic drop very solid. They might not be

465
00:20:59,116 --> 00:21:01,436
Speaker 2: the answers of every single listener to the Happiness Lab,

466
00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:04,716
Speaker 2: but they're his answers. And that's the point. That's how

467
00:21:04,756 --> 00:21:07,036
Speaker 2: we actually find the answers. And he found those answers

468
00:21:07,076 --> 00:21:09,036
Speaker 2: through pain. I'm telling you you're becoming a Scout sniper

469
00:21:09,036 --> 00:21:12,116
Speaker 2: and Marine Corps intails lots of broken bones, lots of

470
00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:14,796
Speaker 2: pain and a lot of fear too, and that's how

471
00:21:14,836 --> 00:21:17,436
Speaker 2: we find it. That's one of the examples about unhappiness

472
00:21:17,756 --> 00:21:20,476
Speaker 2: is key to our happierness.

473
00:21:19,836 --> 00:21:22,076
Speaker 1: And the other way that our got mind gets happierness.

474
00:21:22,156 --> 00:21:22,436
Speaker 2: Wrong.

475
00:21:22,636 --> 00:21:24,876
Speaker 1: Isn't just that we kind of neglect the importance of

476
00:21:24,916 --> 00:21:26,836
Speaker 1: some of these painful moments, you know, in terms of

477
00:21:26,876 --> 00:21:29,596
Speaker 1: seeking purpose and things like that. We also are really

478
00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:32,556
Speaker 1: evlusionarily drawn to some of the bad stuff. We kind

479
00:21:32,556 --> 00:21:35,556
Speaker 1: of have this bias to finding suffering and bad things

480
00:21:35,596 --> 00:21:38,316
Speaker 1: all around us. Talk about why we're wired to have

481
00:21:38,396 --> 00:21:39,916
Speaker 1: this not so good outlook on life.

482
00:21:39,996 --> 00:21:41,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of work that's been

483
00:21:41,956 --> 00:21:44,716
Speaker 2: done in our fields about, for example, negativity bias, and

484
00:21:44,756 --> 00:21:48,116
Speaker 2: negatativity bias is basically, pay more attention to the bad

485
00:21:48,156 --> 00:21:49,756
Speaker 2: than the good because the good is nice to have,

486
00:21:49,836 --> 00:21:51,596
Speaker 2: but the bad can kill you. So there's a very

487
00:21:51,596 --> 00:21:54,236
Speaker 2: strong evolutionary argument about why we would be sort of,

488
00:21:54,316 --> 00:21:56,476
Speaker 2: you know, negatrons. As my kids will like to say,

489
00:21:56,476 --> 00:21:58,836
Speaker 2: you know somebody who's always being super negative all the time,

490
00:21:58,956 --> 00:22:01,836
Speaker 2: But five hundred thousand years ago on the placeiscene, you know,

491
00:22:01,876 --> 00:22:04,596
Speaker 2: you're looking around. A face that's smiling sweetly at you

492
00:22:04,676 --> 00:22:06,396
Speaker 2: is nice to have, but a face that's frowning at

493
00:22:06,436 --> 00:22:08,796
Speaker 2: you if you ignore it might be the death of you.

494
00:22:08,956 --> 00:22:10,796
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense for you to be

495
00:22:10,876 --> 00:22:13,916
Speaker 2: more tuned. You know. Some people believe to have more

496
00:22:14,076 --> 00:22:18,076
Speaker 2: brain space dedicated to negative emotion than positive emotions, and

497
00:22:18,116 --> 00:22:21,916
Speaker 2: neuroscientists disagree on all this, because neuroscientists disagree on absolutely everything,

498
00:22:22,396 --> 00:22:24,676
Speaker 2: and a lot of them actually believe that we were

499
00:22:24,716 --> 00:22:27,556
Speaker 2: built to feel the pain, because the pain actually keeps

500
00:22:27,636 --> 00:22:29,356
Speaker 2: us alive so that we can survive and pass on

501
00:22:29,396 --> 00:22:32,596
Speaker 2: our genes and fight another day. Now, interestingly, we tend

502
00:22:32,596 --> 00:22:35,156
Speaker 2: to look in the rearview mirror more positively than negatively,

503
00:22:35,196 --> 00:22:38,476
Speaker 2: which is called fading affect bias. And so what happens

504
00:22:38,556 --> 00:22:40,516
Speaker 2: is that when something bad is happening to you, and

505
00:22:40,516 --> 00:22:42,316
Speaker 2: this is one of the exercises that I ask my

506
00:22:42,316 --> 00:22:45,436
Speaker 2: students to do. They have this negativity journal that they

507
00:22:45,516 --> 00:22:48,316
Speaker 2: keep and when something bad happens, which is inevitable. I mean,

508
00:22:48,356 --> 00:22:50,276
Speaker 2: you're twenty eight years old. Somebody's going to break your

509
00:22:50,276 --> 00:22:52,756
Speaker 2: heart today, and then somebody's going to disappoint you tomorrow,

510
00:22:52,756 --> 00:22:54,436
Speaker 2: and you're going to get a be on an exam

511
00:22:54,476 --> 00:22:56,276
Speaker 2: and it's going to bum you out or something. And

512
00:22:56,316 --> 00:22:58,556
Speaker 2: every time that happens, you open your journal and you

513
00:22:58,556 --> 00:23:02,076
Speaker 2: write it down, and then you leave two lines under it.

514
00:23:02,276 --> 00:23:04,436
Speaker 2: The first line you have an alarm on your phone

515
00:23:04,476 --> 00:23:06,876
Speaker 2: that comes up after one month, and you go back

516
00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:09,756
Speaker 2: and you have to write down what you learned from

517
00:23:09,796 --> 00:23:11,876
Speaker 2: that one month later, and then six months later you

518
00:23:11,876 --> 00:23:14,556
Speaker 2: have to come back and say, actually, a good thing

519
00:23:14,596 --> 00:23:17,316
Speaker 2: that happened because of that. Why Because you need to

520
00:23:17,316 --> 00:23:20,236
Speaker 2: be more alert to fading affect bias, and you need

521
00:23:20,236 --> 00:23:22,996
Speaker 2: to put your negativity bias in context. It doesn't need

522
00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:25,316
Speaker 2: to get rid of your negativity bias. It means you

523
00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:29,236
Speaker 2: need to understand your negativity bias. And it's amazing. When

524
00:23:29,236 --> 00:23:31,276
Speaker 2: people do this, they start to feel that they start

525
00:23:31,316 --> 00:23:34,236
Speaker 2: to grow as people enormously. They start to look forward

526
00:23:34,316 --> 00:23:37,116
Speaker 2: to putting entries in their negativity journal because they get

527
00:23:37,156 --> 00:23:39,036
Speaker 2: to look back at the last one and look back

528
00:23:39,036 --> 00:23:40,796
Speaker 2: at the last one and say, yeah, yeah, you know.

529
00:23:40,836 --> 00:23:43,436
Speaker 2: It's like, my boss gave me a really really bad

530
00:23:43,476 --> 00:23:45,436
Speaker 2: evaluation and I thought I was doing a good job,

531
00:23:45,436 --> 00:23:47,476
Speaker 2: but I got a bad evaluation and it was horrible.

532
00:23:47,596 --> 00:23:49,836
Speaker 2: And then what I learned a month later, I learned

533
00:23:49,876 --> 00:23:51,876
Speaker 2: that I only felt bad about it for three days,

534
00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:53,156
Speaker 2: even though I thought I was going to feel bad

535
00:23:53,156 --> 00:23:55,396
Speaker 2: about it for five months. And then six months later

536
00:23:55,436 --> 00:23:58,116
Speaker 2: what happened. It suggested to me maybe I was working

537
00:23:58,156 --> 00:23:59,556
Speaker 2: in the wrong place, and I went on the market

538
00:23:59,556 --> 00:24:01,716
Speaker 2: and I found another job and I'm happier there. And

539
00:24:01,756 --> 00:24:04,116
Speaker 2: if you don't write that down, you're not going to remember.

540
00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:06,756
Speaker 2: The fading affect bias will teach you something potentially, but

541
00:24:06,796 --> 00:24:10,116
Speaker 2: it won't enhance your happierness, which is really important.

542
00:24:10,516 --> 00:24:12,396
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be

543
00:24:12,476 --> 00:24:14,556
Speaker 1: back with Arthur Brooks and more of his tips to

544
00:24:14,556 --> 00:24:24,036
Speaker 1: build the Life you Want. In just a moment before

545
00:24:24,036 --> 00:24:27,396
Speaker 1: the break, happiness expert Arthur Brooks was explaining how keeping

546
00:24:27,476 --> 00:24:30,196
Speaker 1: a journal can help us put our feelings into perspective.

547
00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:33,356
Speaker 1: A bad grade or breakup might bring heartbreak in January,

548
00:24:33,516 --> 00:24:35,476
Speaker 1: but when we look back from June, it's just not

549
00:24:35,596 --> 00:24:38,436
Speaker 1: so bad. That's advice we can all learn from. But

550
00:24:38,516 --> 00:24:40,436
Speaker 1: in the new book he wrote with Oprah, Build the

551
00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:42,836
Speaker 1: Life you Want, The Art and Science of Getting Happier,

552
00:24:43,396 --> 00:24:46,676
Speaker 1: Arthur makes it clear that we shouldn't fear being scared, disappointed,

553
00:24:46,796 --> 00:24:47,276
Speaker 1: or sad.

554
00:24:47,636 --> 00:24:51,236
Speaker 2: It's very important once again for us always to remember

555
00:24:51,716 --> 00:24:54,236
Speaker 2: that emotions are not just nice to have it bad

556
00:24:54,276 --> 00:24:57,076
Speaker 2: to have. These are not luxuries and just a pain.

557
00:24:57,436 --> 00:24:59,516
Speaker 2: These are the things that are literally keeping us alive.

558
00:24:59,556 --> 00:25:01,596
Speaker 2: I mean, back in the nineteen eighties, you know people

559
00:25:01,676 --> 00:25:03,636
Speaker 2: my age, I'm ten years older than you and say

560
00:25:03,676 --> 00:25:05,116
Speaker 2: you want you're not going to remember this, but back

561
00:25:05,156 --> 00:25:06,956
Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties, or the show called Cosmos that

562
00:25:06,996 --> 00:25:09,436
Speaker 2: we all knew about, We're Carl Sagan. He would talk about,

563
00:25:09,476 --> 00:25:12,916
Speaker 2: you know, astronomy and you know, the mysteries of outer space,

564
00:25:12,956 --> 00:25:15,356
Speaker 2: but sometimes you would talk about the mysteries right here,

565
00:25:15,436 --> 00:25:17,876
Speaker 2: and sometimes you talk about the brain. He used the

566
00:25:18,676 --> 00:25:22,716
Speaker 2: old triune brain theory of Paul McClain, of neuroscientists from

567
00:25:22,716 --> 00:25:25,596
Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties who tried to explain

568
00:25:25,636 --> 00:25:28,396
Speaker 2: the human brain. It's funny because you know, our colleague

569
00:25:28,396 --> 00:25:31,156
Speaker 2: here at Harvard, Josh Green, says, it's actually okay. It's

570
00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:33,636
Speaker 2: still okay to describe the human brain and the triune brain.

571
00:25:33,836 --> 00:25:35,996
Speaker 2: It's not as simple as this. But basically, the brain

572
00:25:36,036 --> 00:25:39,076
Speaker 2: does three things. It has these ancient functions which sometimes

573
00:25:39,116 --> 00:25:41,756
Speaker 2: they call the you know, the lizard brain, which is,

574
00:25:41,996 --> 00:25:43,836
Speaker 2: you know, the brain stem and the parts of the

575
00:25:43,836 --> 00:25:47,076
Speaker 2: brain that are ascertaining things going on outside us. You know,

576
00:25:46,876 --> 00:25:49,356
Speaker 2: you're not conscious of it, but as sending signals that

577
00:25:49,636 --> 00:25:52,116
Speaker 2: you can breathe without thinking, you can walk up right

578
00:25:52,196 --> 00:25:53,956
Speaker 2: without having to think about it, right a bicycle, if

579
00:25:53,956 --> 00:25:55,596
Speaker 2: you've learned how to do so, et cetera. Then the

580
00:25:55,636 --> 00:25:57,876
Speaker 2: second part of your brain that that first part sends

581
00:25:57,916 --> 00:26:00,636
Speaker 2: signals to about the outside world is the limbic system.

582
00:26:00,876 --> 00:26:03,836
Speaker 2: This is inside a sort of deep buried inside your brain.

583
00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:07,076
Speaker 2: It includes things like the amygdala and the dorsal anterior

584
00:26:07,116 --> 00:26:09,876
Speaker 2: singular cortex and the nucleus accumbent and all these parts

585
00:26:09,876 --> 00:26:12,276
Speaker 2: of the brain. And whether they do they create your

586
00:26:12,316 --> 00:26:15,716
Speaker 2: desires and your feelings and your emotions. Why are they

587
00:26:15,716 --> 00:26:18,196
Speaker 2: doing that so that they can send that signal to

588
00:26:18,316 --> 00:26:20,356
Speaker 2: your brand new part of your brain, the crinkly part

589
00:26:20,356 --> 00:26:23,596
Speaker 2: on the outside called the neocortex, especially the prefrontal cortex,

590
00:26:23,636 --> 00:26:26,156
Speaker 2: the bumper of tissue behind your forehead, And then you

591
00:26:26,196 --> 00:26:30,076
Speaker 2: can decide what to do consciously, but you need the signals.

592
00:26:30,196 --> 00:26:32,316
Speaker 2: You got to have that language. And that's really what

593
00:26:32,356 --> 00:26:36,076
Speaker 2: emotions are all about. The negative emotions in particular, their

594
00:26:36,196 --> 00:26:39,756
Speaker 2: alarms go do something, and they're all evolved for an

595
00:26:39,796 --> 00:26:43,396
Speaker 2: incredible purpose. Anger and fear is because there's a real

596
00:26:43,476 --> 00:26:45,196
Speaker 2: threat to you. It might be a threat to your

597
00:26:45,236 --> 00:26:48,516
Speaker 2: well being. Now that's maladapted. When somebody points a gun

598
00:26:48,556 --> 00:26:50,196
Speaker 2: at you, it makes you feel a particular way, and

599
00:26:50,236 --> 00:26:52,076
Speaker 2: you might feel the same way when you get somebody

600
00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:54,916
Speaker 2: writes something mean about you on Twitter or x or

601
00:26:54,916 --> 00:26:57,116
Speaker 2: whatever we call it right now, And that's a maladapted

602
00:26:57,556 --> 00:26:59,716
Speaker 2: modern version of that. That you need to manage, but

603
00:26:59,796 --> 00:27:02,676
Speaker 2: you can't manage it till you understand it. Discussed is

604
00:27:02,676 --> 00:27:05,236
Speaker 2: a basic negative emotion that's actually a part of the

605
00:27:05,236 --> 00:27:09,996
Speaker 2: brain called the insula or the insular cortex that governs discussed.

606
00:27:10,316 --> 00:27:12,876
Speaker 2: The idea is that you should feel discussed for something

607
00:27:12,916 --> 00:27:15,196
Speaker 2: that's a pathogen might kill you. You need that. The

608
00:27:15,276 --> 00:27:17,836
Speaker 2: problem is when that's maladapted in modern life, when people

609
00:27:17,916 --> 00:27:19,716
Speaker 2: use it to make you feel disgusted about people who

610
00:27:19,716 --> 00:27:23,676
Speaker 2: disagree with you politically, and that's what populist, polarizing politicians

611
00:27:23,756 --> 00:27:26,396
Speaker 2: do all the time. But that's really important because once

612
00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:30,876
Speaker 2: we're aware that polarizing politicians are trying to stimulate our

613
00:27:30,916 --> 00:27:34,156
Speaker 2: insular cortex to feel discussed toward fellow human beings, they

614
00:27:34,156 --> 00:27:36,276
Speaker 2: can't do it anymore. They don't have power over us anymore,

615
00:27:36,316 --> 00:27:39,036
Speaker 2: which is really important. And last, but not least, there's sadness.

616
00:27:39,196 --> 00:27:42,596
Speaker 2: And sadness is really important because you feel it incredibly painful.

617
00:27:42,756 --> 00:27:45,796
Speaker 2: It actually stimulates the anterior singular cortex of your brain,

618
00:27:45,916 --> 00:27:48,996
Speaker 2: almost like physical pain, especially when you're separated from a

619
00:27:48,996 --> 00:27:51,196
Speaker 2: loved one. And the reason is because you're evolved and

620
00:27:51,316 --> 00:27:54,036
Speaker 2: not be separated from your kin. Half a million years

621
00:27:54,036 --> 00:27:57,516
Speaker 2: ago that would mean walking the frozen tundra and dying alone.

622
00:27:57,796 --> 00:27:59,356
Speaker 2: Is the way that that works. All of this stuff

623
00:27:59,396 --> 00:28:01,636
Speaker 2: has evolved, all of it is useful, but when you

624
00:28:01,796 --> 00:28:04,276
Speaker 2: understand it, this is when it gets exciting because it

625
00:28:04,356 --> 00:28:07,516
Speaker 2: won't be maladapted. Then you can actually manage the versions

626
00:28:07,516 --> 00:28:11,676
Speaker 2: of these negative emotions not appropriate. You can say, ah,

627
00:28:11,916 --> 00:28:14,956
Speaker 2: Arthur is feeling discussed toward a person because he read

628
00:28:14,996 --> 00:28:17,196
Speaker 2: something on social media. No no, no, no, no no, I'm

629
00:28:17,236 --> 00:28:18,516
Speaker 2: not following for that anymore.

630
00:28:18,756 --> 00:28:21,196
Speaker 1: And you've also argued that once we understand how negative

631
00:28:21,236 --> 00:28:23,396
Speaker 1: emotions work, we can kind of swap them out for

632
00:28:23,516 --> 00:28:27,076
Speaker 1: something healthier. Use this caffeine metaphor, which I love being

633
00:28:27,076 --> 00:28:29,236
Speaker 1: a coffee drinker, having brought my coffee in it four

634
00:28:29,276 --> 00:28:29,996
Speaker 1: o'clock today.

635
00:28:30,156 --> 00:28:33,436
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, no, that's true. And all emotional

636
00:28:33,476 --> 00:28:37,196
Speaker 2: self management starts with a broad suite of techniques that

637
00:28:37,236 --> 00:28:40,556
Speaker 2: a lot of psychologists and neuroscientists refer to as metacognition.

638
00:28:40,756 --> 00:28:44,236
Speaker 2: And metacognition is just awareness of your own thinking. If

639
00:28:44,276 --> 00:28:48,356
Speaker 2: you are reactive to your limbic system, your sadness, your anger,

640
00:28:48,396 --> 00:28:51,476
Speaker 2: you're discussed your fear or your joy, even your interest

641
00:28:51,556 --> 00:28:53,316
Speaker 2: in other things, then you're just going to react. You know,

642
00:28:53,316 --> 00:28:56,276
Speaker 2: when you have little kids and they scream when anything

643
00:28:56,316 --> 00:28:58,036
Speaker 2: bad happens, you always say the same thing to him.

644
00:28:58,076 --> 00:29:00,836
Speaker 2: You say, use your words, and what you're saying is

645
00:29:00,876 --> 00:29:05,196
Speaker 2: be metacognitive, use your prefrontal cortex, not just your limbic system.

646
00:29:05,356 --> 00:29:07,516
Speaker 2: And so people like us that have suffered through a

647
00:29:07,516 --> 00:29:10,516
Speaker 2: PhD and the social sciences, we don't talk about reactive people.

648
00:29:10,516 --> 00:29:13,516
Speaker 2: We talk about limbic people. And that's really what it means.

649
00:29:13,516 --> 00:29:16,956
Speaker 2: They're using their limbic systems, but not their prefrontal cortex.

650
00:29:17,316 --> 00:29:20,516
Speaker 2: It takes time, it takes awareness to use your prefrontal

651
00:29:20,516 --> 00:29:24,596
Speaker 2: cortex and choose your reaction and choose more appropriate emotions. Now,

652
00:29:24,676 --> 00:29:28,596
Speaker 2: that requires a repertoire of techniques on ourselves. That's the

653
00:29:28,596 --> 00:29:31,396
Speaker 2: beginning of emotional self management. If you recognize that if

654
00:29:31,396 --> 00:29:34,276
Speaker 2: you wait when you feel something, you can move the

655
00:29:34,356 --> 00:29:38,396
Speaker 2: experience into your prefrontal cortex and make conscious decisions about

656
00:29:38,396 --> 00:29:42,036
Speaker 2: your own emotions. A good way to do this is meditation.

657
00:29:43,036 --> 00:29:46,636
Speaker 2: Meditation practices where you're observing yourself with a certain remove.

658
00:29:46,956 --> 00:29:49,636
Speaker 2: Laurie is feeling sad right now, that's funny. Why is

659
00:29:49,676 --> 00:29:52,796
Speaker 2: laur feeling sad? Right? Now, which is a typical meditation technique.

660
00:29:52,916 --> 00:29:55,756
Speaker 2: I use prayer with in a traditional religious context to

661
00:29:55,836 --> 00:29:59,116
Speaker 2: do this where I'm basically observing myself. Other people use journaling.

662
00:29:59,476 --> 00:30:02,276
Speaker 2: Journaling is incredible because when you're writing something down, you're

663
00:30:02,316 --> 00:30:05,236
Speaker 2: using your prefrontal cortex, but you're journaling about something that

664
00:30:05,316 --> 00:30:08,316
Speaker 2: was in your limbic system, which is unbelievable. But one

665
00:30:08,316 --> 00:30:10,316
Speaker 2: way or the other. Once you do this, once your

666
00:30:10,316 --> 00:30:14,316
Speaker 2: prefrontal cortex is involved, you've got choices, and that's so

667
00:30:14,516 --> 00:30:18,116
Speaker 2: much power. So you can choose to accept the emotion

668
00:30:18,276 --> 00:30:21,756
Speaker 2: and choose the reaction. You can look at the emotion

669
00:30:22,076 --> 00:30:25,196
Speaker 2: and decide to substitute it with another emotion. You can

670
00:30:25,276 --> 00:30:28,036
Speaker 2: literally do this. And this is the metaphor that I

671
00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:29,636
Speaker 2: give in the book which you just referred to, is

672
00:30:29,636 --> 00:30:33,956
Speaker 2: that of caffeine. So caffeine is a substitute molecule for

673
00:30:34,076 --> 00:30:36,636
Speaker 2: one you like less. Most people think if I drink

674
00:30:36,636 --> 00:30:39,116
Speaker 2: caffeine it PEPs me up. It doesn't. It blocks a

675
00:30:39,156 --> 00:30:42,076
Speaker 2: molecule that makes you feel too relaxed. They get up

676
00:30:42,116 --> 00:30:44,756
Speaker 2: in the morning and there's this molecule in your brain

677
00:30:44,876 --> 00:30:47,756
Speaker 2: called a dentosine that's floating around and it has receptors

678
00:30:47,756 --> 00:30:49,996
Speaker 2: that the molecules go into. And the molecule goes into

679
00:30:49,996 --> 00:30:53,716
Speaker 2: the receptor for a dentosine, it makes you lethargic. So

680
00:30:53,756 --> 00:30:57,036
Speaker 2: what does caffeine do. Caffeine looks just like a dentosine.

681
00:30:57,156 --> 00:30:59,556
Speaker 2: It fits into the receptors. It like goes into the

682
00:30:59,596 --> 00:31:03,316
Speaker 2: parking spots of the a dentisine receptors, dentosine can't get in.

683
00:31:03,876 --> 00:31:06,076
Speaker 2: You actually feel like you have more energy. And if

684
00:31:06,116 --> 00:31:08,476
Speaker 2: you drink too much coffee, there's not any dentisine you

685
00:31:08,516 --> 00:31:11,356
Speaker 2: feel jit That's the way that that works, and the

686
00:31:11,396 --> 00:31:13,316
Speaker 2: same thing is true with your emotions. But you got

687
00:31:13,316 --> 00:31:14,956
Speaker 2: to know how it works. You have to have a

688
00:31:14,996 --> 00:31:17,036
Speaker 2: substitute emotion. I was talking about this with a friend

689
00:31:17,076 --> 00:31:19,636
Speaker 2: of mine, a guy who's an actor. He was in

690
00:31:19,676 --> 00:31:21,636
Speaker 2: a show called The Office that most people have seen,

691
00:31:21,876 --> 00:31:23,756
Speaker 2: and he played Dwight. He's a friend of mine. We

692
00:31:23,796 --> 00:31:26,276
Speaker 2: grew up together at the same time in Seattle, about

693
00:31:26,276 --> 00:31:28,236
Speaker 2: five miles apart. I didn't know when we were kids,

694
00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:30,556
Speaker 2: but we've become good friends these days. And he said, yeah,

695
00:31:30,596 --> 00:31:33,236
Speaker 2: I've got a good example of substituting emotions on purpose.

696
00:31:33,316 --> 00:31:35,876
Speaker 2: I said, what is it? He said, most comedians they

697
00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:38,676
Speaker 2: tend to suffer from depression, and when they feel sadness,

698
00:31:38,916 --> 00:31:42,316
Speaker 2: they decide to make a joke. They use humor when

699
00:31:42,356 --> 00:31:45,076
Speaker 2: they feel sadness, and they do it on purpose. That's

700
00:31:45,196 --> 00:31:49,836
Speaker 2: incredibly effective and incredibly metacognitive. But you've got to practice

701
00:31:49,836 --> 00:31:52,436
Speaker 2: metacognition so that you can manage your emotions and they

702
00:31:52,436 --> 00:31:53,036
Speaker 2: don't manage you.

703
00:31:53,356 --> 00:31:55,476
Speaker 1: But in addition to swapping our emotions out, you've also

704
00:31:55,516 --> 00:31:57,396
Speaker 1: talked about a different way to get out of our

705
00:31:57,436 --> 00:32:00,596
Speaker 1: emotions altogether, and that's just to stop focusing on the

706
00:32:00,636 --> 00:32:03,196
Speaker 1: self like it's not our brand anymore. We're just not there.

707
00:32:03,676 --> 00:32:05,676
Speaker 1: You know, what do you mean here? What is getting

708
00:32:05,676 --> 00:32:07,396
Speaker 1: out of our own self focus look like?

709
00:32:07,716 --> 00:32:11,076
Speaker 2: So there's really three choice. When you're feeling something and

710
00:32:11,116 --> 00:32:14,836
Speaker 2: you're metacognitive enough to recognize the emotion and the emotion

711
00:32:14,916 --> 00:32:17,716
Speaker 2: is uncomfortable. Now to begin with, don't numb your emotions.

712
00:32:17,756 --> 00:32:21,836
Speaker 2: Don't take the equivalent of emotional fentanyl. What we don't

713
00:32:21,876 --> 00:32:24,196
Speaker 2: want is to not feel anything. And by the way,

714
00:32:24,236 --> 00:32:27,476
Speaker 2: when people engage in many addictive behaviors drugs and alcohol,

715
00:32:27,756 --> 00:32:29,836
Speaker 2: but they're really numbing is not their physical pain. They're

716
00:32:29,876 --> 00:32:31,796
Speaker 2: numbing their emotions. They're trying to get rid of them.

717
00:32:31,836 --> 00:32:33,796
Speaker 2: That's a bad idea because once again we talked about

718
00:32:33,796 --> 00:32:36,156
Speaker 2: this before, you need your emotions. What you want to

719
00:32:36,196 --> 00:32:38,836
Speaker 2: do is blunt it in a lot of cases, and

720
00:32:38,876 --> 00:32:42,116
Speaker 2: there's really three ways to do this with metacognition. Number one,

721
00:32:42,276 --> 00:32:45,676
Speaker 2: choose the reaction you want notwithstanding your emotions. Number two

722
00:32:46,276 --> 00:32:49,156
Speaker 2: is substitute a different emotion, which we talked about before.

723
00:32:49,196 --> 00:32:53,236
Speaker 2: And number three is decide to disregard the emotion by

724
00:32:53,276 --> 00:32:56,796
Speaker 2: not focusing on yourself. And again, I mean, maybe it

725
00:32:56,836 --> 00:33:00,196
Speaker 2: sounds obvious, but it really isn't. It's kind of incredible

726
00:33:00,236 --> 00:33:02,236
Speaker 2: that even if you go to therapy along a lot

727
00:33:02,236 --> 00:33:03,836
Speaker 2: of times, what they do is they make you focus

728
00:33:03,876 --> 00:33:05,916
Speaker 2: on yourself exhaustively. And a lot of people have said,

729
00:33:05,956 --> 00:33:07,796
Speaker 2: you know, the problem with therapy is I've just I

730
00:33:07,836 --> 00:33:10,716
Speaker 2: feel like I'm getting worse obsessed with my own emotions.

731
00:33:10,756 --> 00:33:13,956
Speaker 2: And I say, well, that's you're learning metacognition, but you're

732
00:33:14,076 --> 00:33:16,076
Speaker 2: not using it in the right way. A lot of

733
00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:20,756
Speaker 2: times that the right solution is to decide to disregard

734
00:33:20,836 --> 00:33:24,076
Speaker 2: your own emotions and focus on what's going on outside.

735
00:33:24,116 --> 00:33:26,676
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's an incredible relief to have

736
00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:30,636
Speaker 2: this in your emotional arsenal. There's this famous Zen Buddhist colan.

737
00:33:30,956 --> 00:33:34,076
Speaker 2: You know, Zen Buddhism is taught to junior monk slurgly

738
00:33:34,116 --> 00:33:37,236
Speaker 2: on the basis of riddles. The's questions that the senior

739
00:33:37,236 --> 00:33:39,156
Speaker 2: monks will say. We'll ask them questions like what is

740
00:33:39,196 --> 00:33:41,196
Speaker 2: the sound of one hand clapping? And you say, well,

741
00:33:41,196 --> 00:33:42,876
Speaker 2: it doesn't have an answer, but it really it does.

742
00:33:43,516 --> 00:33:46,556
Speaker 2: One hand clapping is an illusion. It only becomes a

743
00:33:46,636 --> 00:33:50,276
Speaker 2: real sound when you add a second hand. That colan

744
00:33:50,436 --> 00:33:54,236
Speaker 2: is about is the illusion of your own individuality. You don't, actually,

745
00:33:54,276 --> 00:33:58,156
Speaker 2: Laurie doesn't exist in this conversation except in an interaction

746
00:33:58,276 --> 00:34:02,036
Speaker 2: with Arthur. That's how that coalan is ultimately deciphered, and

747
00:34:02,076 --> 00:34:05,636
Speaker 2: it shows the illusion of individuality, which is called emptiness

748
00:34:06,076 --> 00:34:09,476
Speaker 2: in Buddhism. Here's another coan. A junior monk is walking

749
00:34:09,476 --> 00:34:11,916
Speaker 2: along the road and he sees a senior monk coming

750
00:34:11,956 --> 00:34:14,356
Speaker 2: toward him. He stops the senior monk and he said,

751
00:34:14,356 --> 00:34:16,676
Speaker 2: where are you going. The senior monk says, I'm on

752
00:34:16,716 --> 00:34:20,156
Speaker 2: a pilgrimage. The junior monk is immediately interested and says,

753
00:34:20,396 --> 00:34:23,716
Speaker 2: where's your pilgrimage taking you? The senior monk says, I

754
00:34:23,756 --> 00:34:27,076
Speaker 2: don't know. He says, why don't you know? And the

755
00:34:27,116 --> 00:34:30,316
Speaker 2: senior monk says, because not knowing is the most intimate.

756
00:34:31,076 --> 00:34:35,036
Speaker 2: That's a co aan that talks about the incredible knowledge

757
00:34:35,036 --> 00:34:38,836
Speaker 2: that you get simply by observing and not thinking about

758
00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:42,236
Speaker 2: your own intention. This is incredibly important that we can

759
00:34:42,276 --> 00:34:44,996
Speaker 2: live this way. You can look at the Eiffel Tower

760
00:34:45,036 --> 00:34:47,316
Speaker 2: and be amazed, or you can take a selfie of

761
00:34:47,356 --> 00:34:49,836
Speaker 2: yourself in the Eiffel Tower, which really becomes a picture

762
00:34:49,836 --> 00:34:51,996
Speaker 2: of you. And we're going through life, which is pictures

763
00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:54,796
Speaker 2: of us and contemplating our emotions and who am I

764
00:34:55,076 --> 00:34:57,436
Speaker 2: and how am I in relation to all these things

765
00:34:57,436 --> 00:35:00,356
Speaker 2: that I'm doing? And it's just, Laurie, it's just terrible.

766
00:35:00,836 --> 00:35:02,476
Speaker 2: It's just terrible. It's tedious.

767
00:35:02,516 --> 00:35:04,516
Speaker 1: It's the kind of thing we get wrong so often.

768
00:35:04,516 --> 00:35:06,956
Speaker 1: You know, I see so many articles about self care

769
00:35:07,116 --> 00:35:09,476
Speaker 1: and you know, treat yourself in these things, and it's

770
00:35:09,516 --> 00:35:12,556
Speaker 1: like the real way to feel better is to actually

771
00:35:12,596 --> 00:35:15,476
Speaker 1: become no self, right, to start paying attention to others or.

772
00:35:15,476 --> 00:35:17,716
Speaker 2: Other care, other care, other care. And you talk about

773
00:35:17,716 --> 00:35:19,636
Speaker 2: this so much with your students. I mean, there's a

774
00:35:19,676 --> 00:35:21,316
Speaker 2: reason you're telling your students to go out and do

775
00:35:21,356 --> 00:35:23,836
Speaker 2: something kind for somebody else. It's not just because the

776
00:35:23,876 --> 00:35:26,156
Speaker 2: other person needs it, It's because the person who does

777
00:35:26,196 --> 00:35:29,276
Speaker 2: it needs it. They need to be the I self,

778
00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:31,996
Speaker 2: which is the observer of life, and not the me self,

779
00:35:32,036 --> 00:35:34,916
Speaker 2: which is the observed serving other people. As a way

780
00:35:34,956 --> 00:35:36,636
Speaker 2: to do this, there are other ways to do this

781
00:35:36,716 --> 00:35:38,836
Speaker 2: that a lot of young people need to understand as well,

782
00:35:38,956 --> 00:35:41,556
Speaker 2: which is, for example, getting rid of all the mirrors

783
00:35:41,596 --> 00:35:44,276
Speaker 2: in our life. Now that might be literal. I have

784
00:35:44,756 --> 00:35:47,196
Speaker 2: a guy that I work with, and he was the

785
00:35:47,316 --> 00:35:51,236
Speaker 2: dreaded fitness influencers, and he was a fitness model on

786
00:35:51,556 --> 00:35:54,756
Speaker 2: magazine covers but also in social media. And he never

787
00:35:54,956 --> 00:35:57,756
Speaker 2: ate anything he liked for ten years, and he had

788
00:35:57,876 --> 00:36:01,476
Speaker 2: single digit body fat and you're really highly visible abs.

789
00:36:01,556 --> 00:36:04,636
Speaker 2: And he said he felt horrible and unhappy, and so

790
00:36:04,676 --> 00:36:05,996
Speaker 2: he tried to figure out how to get out of it.

791
00:36:06,036 --> 00:36:08,556
Speaker 2: This guy is an adept. He's a spiritual adept. He

792
00:36:08,556 --> 00:36:10,436
Speaker 2: figured this out on his oun. I mean, I'm not

793
00:36:10,516 --> 00:36:12,636
Speaker 2: that smart. I couldn't do this. And here's how we

794
00:36:12,676 --> 00:36:15,996
Speaker 2: did it. He moved into a new apartment, he took

795
00:36:16,196 --> 00:36:19,036
Speaker 2: every mirror out of the apartment, and he showered in

796
00:36:19,036 --> 00:36:23,156
Speaker 2: the dark for a year, and he was cured. He

797
00:36:23,276 --> 00:36:26,836
Speaker 2: was cured because he realized it didn't matter how he

798
00:36:26,916 --> 00:36:29,276
Speaker 2: looked to himself or even how he looked to other people.

799
00:36:29,356 --> 00:36:30,916
Speaker 2: Now there's another way to do that, which is to

800
00:36:30,956 --> 00:36:33,276
Speaker 2: get rid of all your notifications on social media. Those

801
00:36:33,316 --> 00:36:36,156
Speaker 2: are nothing more than mirrors. Never take another selfie, or

802
00:36:36,156 --> 00:36:38,156
Speaker 2: at least don't take any more selfies for a month.

803
00:36:38,276 --> 00:36:39,956
Speaker 2: See how that feels. Get rid of all the mirrors

804
00:36:39,956 --> 00:36:42,196
Speaker 2: in our lives, because then we're looking outward and we

805
00:36:42,316 --> 00:36:44,476
Speaker 2: can enjoy life for the first time, maybe in a

806
00:36:44,476 --> 00:36:45,036
Speaker 2: long time.

807
00:36:46,116 --> 00:36:48,476
Speaker 1: It's time for another short break, but the Happiness Lab

808
00:36:48,476 --> 00:36:50,916
Speaker 1: with Arthur Brooks will be back again in just a moment.

809
00:36:58,636 --> 00:37:01,356
Speaker 1: If we follow Arthur's advice take down all the mirrors

810
00:37:01,396 --> 00:37:04,196
Speaker 1: in our homes and stop looking at ourselves, what should

811
00:37:04,236 --> 00:37:07,876
Speaker 1: we focus our attention on instead. One option is something

812
00:37:07,916 --> 00:37:10,316
Speaker 1: we haven't touched on all that much on this podcast,

813
00:37:10,596 --> 00:37:13,356
Speaker 1: and it falls roughly under the title of the spiritual

814
00:37:13,516 --> 00:37:16,556
Speaker 1: or transcendental. That can mean being spell bound by a

815
00:37:16,556 --> 00:37:19,476
Speaker 1: beautiful view, an amazing piece of music, or the kind

816
00:37:19,516 --> 00:37:22,796
Speaker 1: of life changing religious experience. Arthur underwent on a school

817
00:37:22,796 --> 00:37:24,156
Speaker 1: trip decades ago.

818
00:37:24,436 --> 00:37:29,356
Speaker 2: And I'm not a super mystical guy. I mean, I

819
00:37:29,396 --> 00:37:33,316
Speaker 2: worked at the RAND Corporation on military operations research. I mean,

820
00:37:33,316 --> 00:37:36,756
Speaker 2: this is not my ordinary terrain. But when I was

821
00:37:36,796 --> 00:37:39,796
Speaker 2: a teenager, I was on a trip to Mexico, a

822
00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:41,996
Speaker 2: school trip to Mexico, and they were trudging us through

823
00:37:42,036 --> 00:37:45,396
Speaker 2: these boring old churches. And you know, I was fifteen

824
00:37:45,476 --> 00:37:47,996
Speaker 2: years old. How much appreciation can I have for these

825
00:37:48,076 --> 00:37:50,836
Speaker 2: incredible monumental things. And we were at the shrine of

826
00:37:50,836 --> 00:37:52,876
Speaker 2: Go Out to Lupe in Mexico City, which is the

827
00:37:52,916 --> 00:37:55,036
Speaker 2: site of an incredible thing in the history of the

828
00:37:55,036 --> 00:37:58,356
Speaker 2: Catholic Church. So during the early years of the Spanish

829
00:37:58,396 --> 00:38:00,996
Speaker 2: occupation of Mexico and the Spanish Catholic Church was trying

830
00:38:01,036 --> 00:38:04,676
Speaker 2: to convert you know, vast numbers of indigenous peoples and

831
00:38:04,716 --> 00:38:07,876
Speaker 2: having horrible luck. I mean, nothing was happening. It was

832
00:38:07,916 --> 00:38:09,796
Speaker 2: and you can imagine why this is not exactly a

833
00:38:09,796 --> 00:38:12,076
Speaker 2: good sales pitch, you know, convert else and it didn't

834
00:38:12,076 --> 00:38:16,476
Speaker 2: look very welcoming. But then there's the story of an

835
00:38:16,476 --> 00:38:19,156
Speaker 2: incredible miracle actually where a peasant man by the name

836
00:38:19,156 --> 00:38:22,396
Speaker 2: of Flan Diego was outside you know what is now

837
00:38:22,436 --> 00:38:25,676
Speaker 2: downtown Mexico City and he saw an apparition of the

838
00:38:25,836 --> 00:38:28,596
Speaker 2: of the Virgin Mary, and the Virgin Mary appeared to him,

839
00:38:28,636 --> 00:38:29,956
Speaker 2: and this is you know, this just sounds kind of

840
00:38:29,996 --> 00:38:32,676
Speaker 2: normal to us now, but it's incredibly transgressive at the time.

841
00:38:32,836 --> 00:38:35,196
Speaker 2: She appeared to him as a woman of mixed race.

842
00:38:35,476 --> 00:38:37,356
Speaker 2: I mean, just like no way that would occur to

843
00:38:37,396 --> 00:38:41,316
Speaker 2: some Spaniard. I mean, forget about it, right, she was

844
00:38:41,356 --> 00:38:44,556
Speaker 2: appearing to Juan Diego as if she could be related

845
00:38:44,596 --> 00:38:47,716
Speaker 2: to Juan Diego, and furthermore that she was the mixture

846
00:38:47,916 --> 00:38:50,236
Speaker 2: of all of the peoples of the world. That's what

847
00:38:50,236 --> 00:38:53,196
Speaker 2: it is interpreted. And as the story goes, and again,

848
00:38:53,276 --> 00:38:54,916
Speaker 2: I mean, some people believe it and some people don't

849
00:38:54,916 --> 00:38:57,796
Speaker 2: believe it. She appeared to him and imprinted herself on

850
00:38:57,836 --> 00:39:00,196
Speaker 2: the tilma, you know, sort of the poncho of Plan Diego,

851
00:39:00,236 --> 00:39:02,116
Speaker 2: and he showed it to the bishop, and the bishop

852
00:39:02,156 --> 00:39:03,836
Speaker 2: didn't believe him. And you know, it goes back and

853
00:39:03,836 --> 00:39:05,396
Speaker 2: forth in these typical stories of the way that they were

854
00:39:05,556 --> 00:39:07,876
Speaker 2: and these miracles, these apparitions of the blushed Virgin Mary,

855
00:39:07,876 --> 00:39:10,636
Speaker 2: which have happened in history all around the world. The

856
00:39:10,716 --> 00:39:13,636
Speaker 2: tilma still exists of Juan Diego. You know, some people

857
00:39:13,676 --> 00:39:15,676
Speaker 2: say it's authentic. And you know, some people say it's

858
00:39:15,716 --> 00:39:18,076
Speaker 2: not authentic, et cetera. It's just exactly what you'd expect.

859
00:39:18,076 --> 00:39:20,516
Speaker 2: But it's sitting in the shrine of Guadalupe in Mexico City.

860
00:39:20,676 --> 00:39:22,556
Speaker 2: And I went there when I was fifteen years old,

861
00:39:22,556 --> 00:39:24,996
Speaker 2: and like, whatever, whatever is what is this thing? What

862
00:39:25,116 --> 00:39:27,316
Speaker 2: is this legend? I don't know? And I looked at

863
00:39:27,356 --> 00:39:30,956
Speaker 2: it and again, you know, I wasn't Catholic. I didn't

864
00:39:30,956 --> 00:39:34,596
Speaker 2: know any Catholics. And I'm staring at it, and she

865
00:39:34,796 --> 00:39:38,956
Speaker 2: was staring at me. Now to be sure, I could

866
00:39:38,996 --> 00:39:41,676
Speaker 2: be looking at Elvis on velvet and the eyes would

867
00:39:41,676 --> 00:39:44,116
Speaker 2: have followed me. I mean, that's a technique. I understand

868
00:39:44,116 --> 00:39:46,636
Speaker 2: how that worked. But it had a big impact on me.

869
00:39:46,716 --> 00:39:50,676
Speaker 2: It made me hungry for more transcendental, more mystical truths.

870
00:39:50,836 --> 00:39:52,836
Speaker 2: And so I started to read. And as a kid,

871
00:39:53,076 --> 00:39:55,196
Speaker 2: you know, I was just a musician. It's all I

872
00:39:55,236 --> 00:39:56,996
Speaker 2: was doing in those days. All I wanted to do

873
00:39:57,076 --> 00:40:00,196
Speaker 2: is play music and goof off. But I couldn't stop reading.

874
00:40:00,236 --> 00:40:04,036
Speaker 2: I was reading about various mystical traditions, about different religious traditions.

875
00:40:04,036 --> 00:40:06,996
Speaker 2: It just, for some reason that sparked a hunger in me.

876
00:40:07,196 --> 00:40:09,076
Speaker 2: That experience and I couldn't get it out of my mind.

877
00:40:09,356 --> 00:40:12,596
Speaker 2: I couldn't get it out of my head, and I converted.

878
00:40:12,836 --> 00:40:17,116
Speaker 2: I became a Catholic, and that experience actually still it's

879
00:40:17,116 --> 00:40:18,556
Speaker 2: as if it were still happening to me today. I

880
00:40:18,596 --> 00:40:20,476
Speaker 2: can still see it. And some listeners are going to

881
00:40:20,516 --> 00:40:22,556
Speaker 2: be like, Ah Brooks is full of himself, But I'm not,

882
00:40:22,756 --> 00:40:25,156
Speaker 2: because I know what I saw, and I'm not saying

883
00:40:25,756 --> 00:40:29,236
Speaker 2: that it is exactly the magical thing that I might

884
00:40:29,276 --> 00:40:31,876
Speaker 2: have interpreted it as or many Catholics. To all I

885
00:40:31,996 --> 00:40:35,596
Speaker 2: know is it sparked something in my soul, a hunger

886
00:40:35,636 --> 00:40:38,436
Speaker 2: for transcendental experiences that I got and I've only ever

887
00:40:38,516 --> 00:40:41,756
Speaker 2: gotten through these religious experiences and in no other way

888
00:40:41,876 --> 00:40:45,236
Speaker 2: for profound insights in my life. That led me as

889
00:40:45,236 --> 00:40:48,636
Speaker 2: a social scientists to study these transcendental experiences. And it

890
00:40:48,636 --> 00:40:51,516
Speaker 2: turns out there's a vast literature that shows that religious

891
00:40:51,556 --> 00:40:55,356
Speaker 2: and other philosophical and transcendental experiences, not just the Tilma

892
00:40:55,356 --> 00:40:57,796
Speaker 2: of Juan Diego of the Blessed Virgin Mary, I mean

893
00:40:58,076 --> 00:41:01,516
Speaker 2: in Buddhism, in Hinduism, and various religious traditions and non

894
00:41:01,596 --> 00:41:06,716
Speaker 2: religious traditions. Reading the Stoics, the experiences of awe, as

895
00:41:06,836 --> 00:41:09,396
Speaker 2: in walking in nature. But these things can give you

896
00:41:09,556 --> 00:41:15,476
Speaker 2: transcendental moments that will illuminate different kinds of experiences and

897
00:41:15,636 --> 00:41:18,836
Speaker 2: use parts of the brain that are typically unavailable in

898
00:41:18,876 --> 00:41:19,636
Speaker 2: any other way.

899
00:41:19,836 --> 00:41:22,636
Speaker 1: And so we don't often think about these transcendent experiences

900
00:41:22,676 --> 00:41:25,516
Speaker 1: as being connected with happiness, but there's lots of social

901
00:41:25,596 --> 00:41:28,396
Speaker 1: science research this suggest that they really are connected with

902
00:41:28,516 --> 00:41:30,556
Speaker 1: feeling happier. So walk me through some of the evidence

903
00:41:30,596 --> 00:41:33,276
Speaker 1: that these kinds of moments of faith are really connected

904
00:41:33,276 --> 00:41:34,436
Speaker 1: with improving our well being.

905
00:41:34,636 --> 00:41:37,156
Speaker 2: So we find that when people have these transcendental experiences,

906
00:41:37,156 --> 00:41:39,836
Speaker 2: they're much much closer to the sources of meaning in

907
00:41:39,876 --> 00:41:41,636
Speaker 2: their life. So we talked about this a minute ago.

908
00:41:41,756 --> 00:41:43,316
Speaker 2: Why am I alive? And for what am I willing

909
00:41:43,396 --> 00:41:47,396
Speaker 2: to die? My Catholic faith answers those questions. It really does, right,

910
00:41:47,596 --> 00:41:50,116
Speaker 2: and having answers to those questions is critically important. They

911
00:41:50,116 --> 00:41:52,556
Speaker 2: talk to you about the coherence of life, the purpose

912
00:41:52,596 --> 00:41:54,796
Speaker 2: of life, and the significance of life, and so providing

913
00:41:54,796 --> 00:41:57,716
Speaker 2: answers to that is no joke from a neuroscientific perspective.

914
00:41:57,716 --> 00:41:59,956
Speaker 2: They stimulate parts of the brain that are very hard

915
00:41:59,996 --> 00:42:02,436
Speaker 2: to access in any other way. You know, the whole

916
00:42:02,436 --> 00:42:05,596
Speaker 2: idea of accessing the periaqueductal gray of the brain. This

917
00:42:05,756 --> 00:42:10,636
Speaker 2: is implicated and deep feelings of calm, of belongingness, of

918
00:42:10,716 --> 00:42:13,036
Speaker 2: deep feelings of love that they are very hard to

919
00:42:13,036 --> 00:42:15,196
Speaker 2: find other ways. And a lot of studies that have

920
00:42:15,276 --> 00:42:19,236
Speaker 2: looked at both Buddhist monks and Catholic nuns, they find

921
00:42:19,276 --> 00:42:21,476
Speaker 2: that it stimulates the theta waves in the brain, which

922
00:42:21,516 --> 00:42:24,716
Speaker 2: are associated with dream sleep, giving profound insights even when

923
00:42:24,756 --> 00:42:27,276
Speaker 2: they are awake, and so you can access things that

924
00:42:27,316 --> 00:42:30,556
Speaker 2: are hard to get otherwise. And again, people differ in

925
00:42:30,596 --> 00:42:33,676
Speaker 2: whether or not the things that are happening are actually real.

926
00:42:33,716 --> 00:42:35,236
Speaker 2: I happen to think that they are. I think that

927
00:42:35,276 --> 00:42:38,716
Speaker 2: there's a realm beyond what we understand that I'm fumbling

928
00:42:38,756 --> 00:42:40,516
Speaker 2: with the shadows and the dark to actually find what

929
00:42:40,556 --> 00:42:42,236
Speaker 2: it is, and my Catholic faith is the best way

930
00:42:42,276 --> 00:42:44,516
Speaker 2: that I know how to do so. But I have

931
00:42:44,596 --> 00:42:49,916
Speaker 2: this deep love and appreciation, and I have these real friendships,

932
00:42:49,916 --> 00:42:51,556
Speaker 2: which is you know, for example, has led me to

933
00:42:51,556 --> 00:42:54,356
Speaker 2: work with this holiness to Dali Lama on the commonality

934
00:42:54,396 --> 00:42:57,236
Speaker 2: of the religious experiences that we both have had and

935
00:42:57,276 --> 00:42:59,036
Speaker 2: how it can impact the way that we're trying to

936
00:42:59,076 --> 00:43:01,516
Speaker 2: live our lives with greater compassion and greater insight.

937
00:43:01,716 --> 00:43:03,436
Speaker 1: And this was also a big connection that you had

938
00:43:03,476 --> 00:43:05,436
Speaker 1: with Oprah herself, right, I mean this is something that

939
00:43:05,476 --> 00:43:08,196
Speaker 1: you both talk about. Is this being one of these

940
00:43:08,276 --> 00:43:10,236
Speaker 1: four pillars that have happeness has been so important for

941
00:43:10,276 --> 00:43:10,636
Speaker 1: both of you.

942
00:43:10,836 --> 00:43:12,796
Speaker 2: Yeah, We've discussed this an awful lot. And you know,

943
00:43:12,796 --> 00:43:14,876
Speaker 2: one of the things that it really makes it relevant

944
00:43:14,996 --> 00:43:17,596
Speaker 2: in you know, our society today is that people will

945
00:43:17,636 --> 00:43:21,956
Speaker 2: often assume, even if it's unstated, that the next big

946
00:43:22,076 --> 00:43:26,716
Speaker 2: breakthrough in tech and consumer life in media is finally

947
00:43:26,716 --> 00:43:28,316
Speaker 2: going to give us the feeling that we're looking for.

948
00:43:28,396 --> 00:43:32,236
Speaker 2: It's going to finally fill that hollowness that we all feel.

949
00:43:32,516 --> 00:43:34,236
Speaker 2: You know, Facebook is going to connect us to other

950
00:43:34,236 --> 00:43:36,916
Speaker 2: people and make us less lonely. AI is going to

951
00:43:36,916 --> 00:43:39,996
Speaker 2: explain the answers to these questions. Things as silly as

952
00:43:40,276 --> 00:43:43,436
Speaker 2: streaming Netflix or shopping therapy are going to just make

953
00:43:43,556 --> 00:43:45,796
Speaker 2: us feel fulfilled in some way, shape or form. And

954
00:43:46,196 --> 00:43:49,876
Speaker 2: the problem with that is that everything that these techniques

955
00:43:49,916 --> 00:43:55,756
Speaker 2: and technologies bring us are answering complicated questions. They're they're

956
00:43:55,796 --> 00:43:59,036
Speaker 2: fulfilling complicated problems, but all the things that we really

957
00:43:59,116 --> 00:44:02,156
Speaker 2: want for that emptiness in our souls, that sense that

958
00:44:02,196 --> 00:44:05,356
Speaker 2: we don't have deep fulfillment. These are complex and adaptive

959
00:44:05,436 --> 00:44:08,356
Speaker 2: human problems. These are problems of love. It's almost as

960
00:44:08,356 --> 00:44:11,076
Speaker 2: if you know, I want a cat because cat is

961
00:44:11,116 --> 00:44:14,316
Speaker 2: alive and warm, and the world keeps giving me toasters,

962
00:44:14,756 --> 00:44:16,276
Speaker 2: and every time I say I want a cat them

963
00:44:16,276 --> 00:44:18,956
Speaker 2: only you know, Silicon Valley gives me this great whiz

964
00:44:18,996 --> 00:44:20,636
Speaker 2: bang toaster. I said, well, I got a toaster. It's

965
00:44:20,636 --> 00:44:22,316
Speaker 2: like there's a better toaster. I think, okay, I'll take

966
00:44:22,356 --> 00:44:24,916
Speaker 2: the toaster. But then I keep wondering what's actually wrong.

967
00:44:25,036 --> 00:44:29,876
Speaker 2: Only these transcendental approaches to life about understanding a love

968
00:44:29,916 --> 00:44:31,876
Speaker 2: of the divine, or at least trying to understand some

969
00:44:31,916 --> 00:44:34,876
Speaker 2: of the cosmic forces of the unseen of our lives

970
00:44:34,996 --> 00:44:39,036
Speaker 2: by reading Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus, or walking in nature,

971
00:44:39,156 --> 00:44:42,076
Speaker 2: or trying to absorb. This is what Schopenhauer talked about.

972
00:44:42,116 --> 00:44:44,436
Speaker 2: You know, Schopenhauer was an atheist, but he peop believed

973
00:44:44,476 --> 00:44:46,996
Speaker 2: we couldn't get it, We couldn't get the reality, and

974
00:44:47,036 --> 00:44:50,516
Speaker 2: the only way that you could was unusual moments of insight,

975
00:44:50,636 --> 00:44:54,156
Speaker 2: typically through music. Only then, Schopenhauer believed we could have

976
00:44:54,196 --> 00:44:58,796
Speaker 2: these transcendental moments of absolute clarity, which is the complex,

977
00:44:58,916 --> 00:45:01,876
Speaker 2: not the complicated, you know. So maybe it's studying and

978
00:45:01,916 --> 00:45:04,356
Speaker 2: listening to the great works of Johann Sebastian Bach, which

979
00:45:04,356 --> 00:45:06,036
Speaker 2: has been a good deal of my life. I've made

980
00:45:06,076 --> 00:45:08,396
Speaker 2: my life my living as a musician, off and on

981
00:45:08,436 --> 00:45:10,676
Speaker 2: through various parts my life, and that's what we all

982
00:45:10,676 --> 00:45:13,476
Speaker 2: need to get in touch with. And for me, religious

983
00:45:13,476 --> 00:45:16,076
Speaker 2: faith is the best, most efficacious way to do so.

984
00:45:16,156 --> 00:45:18,916
Speaker 2: And again, none of this discussion is who's right. Those

985
00:45:18,956 --> 00:45:20,836
Speaker 2: are different questions and not. Of course I have my

986
00:45:20,876 --> 00:45:22,836
Speaker 2: opinions and other people have their opinions on that as well.

987
00:45:22,836 --> 00:45:24,316
Speaker 2: I'm just talking about the fact that this is a

988
00:45:24,356 --> 00:45:25,596
Speaker 2: great way to get happier.

989
00:45:25,916 --> 00:45:28,156
Speaker 1: And so even though you've self described as somebody who's

990
00:45:28,196 --> 00:45:30,756
Speaker 1: like genetically gloomy, you do seem to have your finger

991
00:45:30,796 --> 00:45:33,236
Speaker 1: on the pulse of things that are transcendent in terms

992
00:45:33,236 --> 00:45:35,596
Speaker 1: of their experiences. Right, you were a musician and this

993
00:45:35,796 --> 00:45:38,316
Speaker 1: rich religious faith. What I'm about for somebody who wants

994
00:45:38,356 --> 00:45:40,676
Speaker 1: to kind of dive into this pillar but they kind

995
00:45:40,716 --> 00:45:42,996
Speaker 1: of struggle with some of these experiences, let's talk about

996
00:45:42,996 --> 00:45:45,036
Speaker 1: how we can get started. Yeah, in your book, you

997
00:45:45,076 --> 00:45:47,876
Speaker 1: mentioned that one of the first practices is just like

998
00:45:47,996 --> 00:45:50,076
Speaker 1: trying to find other ways to tame the monkey mind.

999
00:45:50,116 --> 00:45:52,796
Speaker 1: Either if you're religious, maybe through a practice like prayer,

1000
00:45:52,836 --> 00:45:55,516
Speaker 1: but even through something like meditation. Why is taming the

1001
00:45:55,556 --> 00:45:58,556
Speaker 1: mind such an important part of these transcendent experiences.

1002
00:45:58,876 --> 00:46:01,356
Speaker 2: The problem that we have in modern life is that

1003
00:46:01,356 --> 00:46:06,876
Speaker 2: we're not actually alive. There's a famous book that many

1004
00:46:06,956 --> 00:46:09,716
Speaker 2: of the happiest readers will have read of they haven't

1005
00:46:10,076 --> 00:46:12,956
Speaker 2: you order it today, called a Miracle of Mindfulness by

1006
00:46:12,956 --> 00:46:15,316
Speaker 2: Tik nott Han, the great Vietnamese Budhist Bunk, and it

1007
00:46:15,356 --> 00:46:18,636
Speaker 2: starts with this description of washing the dishes, and he says,

1008
00:46:18,676 --> 00:46:21,036
Speaker 2: when you're washing the dishes, you should be fully aware

1009
00:46:21,036 --> 00:46:23,396
Speaker 2: of washing the dishes and nothing else. Because if you're

1010
00:46:23,396 --> 00:46:26,196
Speaker 2: not fully aware of washing the dishes, you aren't really

1011
00:46:26,356 --> 00:46:29,356
Speaker 2: washing the dishes, and you're not really alive right now.

1012
00:46:29,476 --> 00:46:31,836
Speaker 2: You're either living in the future or you're living the past.

1013
00:46:32,036 --> 00:46:36,756
Speaker 2: You're either retrospective or your prospective, but you actually can't

1014
00:46:36,956 --> 00:46:41,276
Speaker 2: apprehend what's going on around you. And that's a big problem.

1015
00:46:41,356 --> 00:46:45,916
Speaker 2: The monkey mind makes it incredibly difficult, even impossible. Our

1016
00:46:45,996 --> 00:46:50,596
Speaker 2: monkey minds, which is our great, big, meaty neocortex makes

1017
00:46:50,636 --> 00:46:54,476
Speaker 2: it possible for us to run future scenarios, to simulate environments,

1018
00:46:54,476 --> 00:46:57,036
Speaker 2: to remember the past and learn from it, and that's wonderful.

1019
00:46:57,316 --> 00:46:59,876
Speaker 2: My dog Chuccho can't do that. On the other hand,

1020
00:46:59,916 --> 00:47:02,956
Speaker 2: my dog Chuccho, he's alive now and he's enjoying his

1021
00:47:03,036 --> 00:47:05,916
Speaker 2: life right now. And one of the things that metaphysical

1022
00:47:05,956 --> 00:47:09,836
Speaker 2: and transcendental religious, spiritual or philosophical experience do for you

1023
00:47:10,316 --> 00:47:13,196
Speaker 2: is they can make you alive right now, and that

1024
00:47:13,356 --> 00:47:16,516
Speaker 2: extends your life in a very important way. You know,

1025
00:47:16,836 --> 00:47:19,356
Speaker 2: our mutual friend and my colleague here at Harvard Ellen Langer,

1026
00:47:19,516 --> 00:47:22,476
Speaker 2: she's arguably, you know, the first person who brought the

1027
00:47:22,516 --> 00:47:25,956
Speaker 2: concept of mindfulness to big groups of people in her

1028
00:47:25,956 --> 00:47:29,036
Speaker 2: famous book Mindfulness from decades ago, and she didn't talk

1029
00:47:29,036 --> 00:47:32,116
Speaker 2: about sitting in a lotus position. She talked about sitting

1030
00:47:32,156 --> 00:47:33,716
Speaker 2: on the train with your hands in your lap and

1031
00:47:33,756 --> 00:47:37,916
Speaker 2: looking out the window with no devices and noticing things. Well,

1032
00:47:37,916 --> 00:47:40,596
Speaker 2: it's hard to do because we're incredibly distracted. And one

1033
00:47:40,636 --> 00:47:45,516
Speaker 2: of the ways to become de distracted is prayer, is worship,

1034
00:47:45,756 --> 00:47:52,636
Speaker 2: is devotion, is meditation, is focusing on something that's conspiringly beautiful,

1035
00:47:52,916 --> 00:47:55,956
Speaker 2: like a fugue of Johann sebashenbachra Sunset.

1036
00:47:55,636 --> 00:47:58,116
Speaker 1: And the Sunset really gets to another practice you suggest

1037
00:47:58,116 --> 00:47:59,636
Speaker 1: in the book, which is one that I think a

1038
00:47:59,636 --> 00:48:02,396
Speaker 1: lot of folks who are not as religious kind of

1039
00:48:02,396 --> 00:48:05,156
Speaker 1: go towards, which is the appreciation of nature and kind

1040
00:48:05,156 --> 00:48:06,716
Speaker 1: of getting out in nature. What do we know about

1041
00:48:06,716 --> 00:48:08,556
Speaker 1: the evidence that nature can kind of bring us to

1042
00:48:08,596 --> 00:48:10,156
Speaker 1: these trends and then experiences.

1043
00:48:10,436 --> 00:48:13,316
Speaker 2: There's sort of two ways. One is pretty well understood

1044
00:48:13,316 --> 00:48:15,956
Speaker 2: psychologically and the other is still kind of mysterious. So

1045
00:48:15,996 --> 00:48:17,956
Speaker 2: the first way, you know, it gets to the research

1046
00:48:17,996 --> 00:48:21,796
Speaker 2: of our mutual colleague Dakar Keltner at UC Berkeley, who

1047
00:48:21,796 --> 00:48:24,716
Speaker 2: does the Greater Good program, and just everything he writes

1048
00:48:24,756 --> 00:48:27,676
Speaker 2: we ought to Read is just so good. And Daker

1049
00:48:27,676 --> 00:48:29,276
Speaker 2: has a new book out called Awe, which is a

1050
00:48:29,276 --> 00:48:31,156
Speaker 2: big best seller. It's really worth reading. And what he

1051
00:48:31,196 --> 00:48:35,716
Speaker 2: talks about is the mysterious experience of Awe inspiring happenings

1052
00:48:35,716 --> 00:48:39,076
Speaker 2: in our lives and putting ourselves purposively in front of

1053
00:48:39,116 --> 00:48:41,196
Speaker 2: things that bring AWE to us. Because what that does

1054
00:48:41,276 --> 00:48:43,476
Speaker 2: is it once again, it just throws you into the

1055
00:48:43,476 --> 00:48:46,756
Speaker 2: I self. It just extinguishes the me self. And what

1056
00:48:46,796 --> 00:48:48,996
Speaker 2: that does is that makes you alive right now and

1057
00:48:49,076 --> 00:48:50,796
Speaker 2: you're looking at it. You're alive right now, and you'll

1058
00:48:50,836 --> 00:48:53,236
Speaker 2: feel when you do something that inspires all whether it's

1059
00:48:53,276 --> 00:48:55,196
Speaker 2: listening to the music that you love or watching the

1060
00:48:55,236 --> 00:48:58,156
Speaker 2: sunset or really one of the best ways they do

1061
00:48:58,196 --> 00:49:02,516
Speaker 2: it is to experience people in acts of kindness toward others,

1062
00:49:02,756 --> 00:49:04,876
Speaker 2: which you know, this is a reason that people cry

1063
00:49:04,876 --> 00:49:06,556
Speaker 2: for joy. One of the biggest reasons people cry for

1064
00:49:06,636 --> 00:49:09,676
Speaker 2: joy is because they witness beauty in the behavior of

1065
00:49:09,716 --> 00:49:12,996
Speaker 2: other people, which is it brings as well that will

1066
00:49:12,996 --> 00:49:15,276
Speaker 2: give you these moments of transcendence because it will give

1067
00:49:15,276 --> 00:49:18,396
Speaker 2: you relief from the future in the past. The second

1068
00:49:18,676 --> 00:49:21,116
Speaker 2: with nature is not just awe and this is something

1069
00:49:21,116 --> 00:49:23,716
Speaker 2: that's a I don't know. This is this literature is

1070
00:49:23,756 --> 00:49:26,916
Speaker 2: hard to interpret because you know, right now we're in

1071
00:49:26,956 --> 00:49:30,076
Speaker 2: social science. We're all wrapped around the axle about replicability

1072
00:49:30,276 --> 00:49:32,396
Speaker 2: and data and the whole thing. I mean, it's just

1073
00:49:32,476 --> 00:49:34,916
Speaker 2: so complicated. But there have been a bunch of papers

1074
00:49:34,956 --> 00:49:38,676
Speaker 2: and replicated a little that suggest that contact with nature

1075
00:49:39,196 --> 00:49:43,356
Speaker 2: it stimulates something for us neurophysiologically that we don't quite understand.

1076
00:49:43,356 --> 00:49:46,796
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, walking barefoot outside touching the soil.

1077
00:49:47,196 --> 00:49:49,476
Speaker 2: It tends to give you a set of experiences that

1078
00:49:49,516 --> 00:49:51,756
Speaker 2: you can't replicate in other ways, and some people have

1079
00:49:51,836 --> 00:49:54,516
Speaker 2: suggested it has something to do with the biology of

1080
00:49:54,556 --> 00:49:58,636
Speaker 2: what's happening electrical signals. There are a lot of hypotheses

1081
00:49:58,636 --> 00:50:00,476
Speaker 2: about what it is. I don't know, but all I

1082
00:50:00,556 --> 00:50:03,076
Speaker 2: know is it works for me. You know, walking in

1083
00:50:03,196 --> 00:50:05,356
Speaker 2: nature really works for me. I started off this day

1084
00:50:05,716 --> 00:50:09,156
Speaker 2: outside of Austin on the coast between Plymouth and Cape Cod,

1085
00:50:09,196 --> 00:50:11,076
Speaker 2: walking on the beach for an hour as the sun

1086
00:50:11,156 --> 00:50:13,076
Speaker 2: was coming up. And I'm telling you, it's just I

1087
00:50:13,116 --> 00:50:15,196
Speaker 2: didn't sleep well last night and I felt really bad

1088
00:50:15,196 --> 00:50:17,436
Speaker 2: when my first World Cup. But fifteen minutes into it,

1089
00:50:17,516 --> 00:50:19,916
Speaker 2: I was alive. I was alive again, and I came

1090
00:50:19,956 --> 00:50:22,756
Speaker 2: back fully alive and I was a new person, And

1091
00:50:22,796 --> 00:50:23,596
Speaker 2: that really works.

1092
00:50:23,956 --> 00:50:25,756
Speaker 1: I love that story with the beach because it's not

1093
00:50:25,836 --> 00:50:28,836
Speaker 1: just about finding transcendence. It's really also about kind of

1094
00:50:28,876 --> 00:50:31,956
Speaker 1: finding your focus. You know, when you're kind of feeling

1095
00:50:32,196 --> 00:50:33,796
Speaker 1: out of it, you can be in this sort of

1096
00:50:33,876 --> 00:50:36,276
Speaker 1: like you know me self and that really you need

1097
00:50:36,276 --> 00:50:38,036
Speaker 1: this kind of other focus to kind of get out

1098
00:50:38,036 --> 00:50:40,156
Speaker 1: of it. And that's the spot where you really end

1099
00:50:40,196 --> 00:50:43,636
Speaker 1: your books. It's not just about kind of finding transcendence.

1100
00:50:44,036 --> 00:50:45,756
Speaker 1: Is that we all need the right focus for some

1101
00:50:45,836 --> 00:50:47,916
Speaker 1: of our happiness practices, right, we need to kind of

1102
00:50:47,916 --> 00:50:49,796
Speaker 1: take it in the right direction. And this is more

1103
00:50:49,796 --> 00:50:52,116
Speaker 1: that it's really not all about us. Yeah, you know,

1104
00:50:52,116 --> 00:50:54,316
Speaker 1: explain what the right focus is and what we really

1105
00:50:54,316 --> 00:50:55,156
Speaker 1: need the.

1106
00:50:55,196 --> 00:50:58,436
Speaker 2: Right focus is. Basically, this is a secret to Laurie

1107
00:50:58,436 --> 00:51:01,636
Speaker 2: and Arthur's happiness, which is that we teach happiness. This

1108
00:51:01,716 --> 00:51:03,916
Speaker 2: is it. And you know I have discussed this off

1109
00:51:03,996 --> 00:51:05,916
Speaker 2: Mike before, and you know I've had lunch and you say,

1110
00:51:05,956 --> 00:51:08,236
Speaker 2: what's your secret happiness? Teaching it? It really is and

1111
00:51:08,516 --> 00:51:11,036
Speaker 2: it might sell like, okay, so here's the secret to happiness.

1112
00:51:11,076 --> 00:51:13,396
Speaker 2: Go suffer through a PhD. And then do you know

1113
00:51:13,396 --> 00:51:15,876
Speaker 2: twenty years of research, doing animal studies or in my case,

1114
00:51:15,916 --> 00:51:19,236
Speaker 2: doing public policy, running a thinking whatever, no, no, learn,

1115
00:51:19,716 --> 00:51:23,956
Speaker 2: practice share. That's the algorithm, the I self algorithm. But

1116
00:51:23,996 --> 00:51:26,836
Speaker 2: it's the happiness algorithm. Why because we know that you'll

1117
00:51:26,876 --> 00:51:29,316
Speaker 2: really remember what you learn if you teach it to

1118
00:51:29,356 --> 00:51:32,516
Speaker 2: other people, you'll practice it if you're recommending it to

1119
00:51:32,596 --> 00:51:35,556
Speaker 2: other people. I mean, it's just I don't know rie

1120
00:51:35,556 --> 00:51:37,756
Speaker 2: I've been I've been teaching this for four years at

1121
00:51:37,756 --> 00:51:41,236
Speaker 2: Harvard now, and I put my students, as you do,

1122
00:51:41,276 --> 00:51:44,036
Speaker 2: through a battery of self tests on their values and

1123
00:51:44,076 --> 00:51:46,956
Speaker 2: then their mood and their personality, but also their happiness

1124
00:51:46,956 --> 00:51:49,236
Speaker 2: and measured in different ways, largely from the tests that

1125
00:51:49,516 --> 00:51:53,196
Speaker 2: come from our mutual friends Sonya Lubomirski out at cal Riverside.

1126
00:51:53,396 --> 00:51:55,916
Speaker 2: And they're really good tests, and if you take them sincerely,

1127
00:51:55,916 --> 00:51:57,316
Speaker 2: you're going to know a lot about yourself. And so

1128
00:51:57,396 --> 00:51:59,876
Speaker 2: I take them every semester because I'm teaching it to

1129
00:51:59,916 --> 00:52:01,956
Speaker 2: my students. Then kind of want to see my progress.

1130
00:52:02,636 --> 00:52:04,716
Speaker 2: And my happiness has kind of by sixty percent since

1131
00:52:04,756 --> 00:52:06,556
Speaker 2: I've been teaching this, and since I've been doing more

1132
00:52:06,596 --> 00:52:09,276
Speaker 2: and writing more about this, and since I can talk

1133
00:52:09,316 --> 00:52:12,436
Speaker 2: about it with people like you. It's really the secret

1134
00:52:12,436 --> 00:52:15,476
Speaker 2: of happiness, and so everybody can do that. How learn more,

1135
00:52:16,236 --> 00:52:19,796
Speaker 2: change your habits, pass it on. When you're doing that,

1136
00:52:19,956 --> 00:52:23,596
Speaker 2: you're in the process of the lifelong process of happierness.

1137
00:52:23,916 --> 00:52:25,716
Speaker 2: It works for Laurie, it looks for Arthur, and it's

1138
00:52:25,716 --> 00:52:27,276
Speaker 2: going to work for everybody listening to us.

1139
00:52:27,716 --> 00:52:29,436
Speaker 1: And it's one of the reasons that everyone out there

1140
00:52:29,476 --> 00:52:31,996
Speaker 1: should right now not just go out and buy Arthur

1141
00:52:32,036 --> 00:52:33,996
Speaker 1: and Oprah's new book, but they should share it with

1142
00:52:34,076 --> 00:52:36,876
Speaker 1: other people, read it, dog ear it, and then give

1143
00:52:36,916 --> 00:52:39,556
Speaker 1: it away to someone else. Thank you so much for Thank.

1144
00:52:39,436 --> 00:52:41,876
Speaker 2: You, Laurie, thank you for your work. You've enriched my

1145
00:52:41,916 --> 00:52:44,796
Speaker 2: life a lot with your research, with your show, and

1146
00:52:44,836 --> 00:52:45,716
Speaker 2: now with your friendship.

1147
00:52:46,436 --> 00:52:49,636
Speaker 1: Did out if you want even more of Arthur and

1148
00:52:49,676 --> 00:52:53,156
Speaker 1: Oprah's ideas on how to pursue greater happierness. I can't

1149
00:52:53,156 --> 00:52:56,236
Speaker 1: recommend their book enough. It's called Build the Life you Want,

1150
00:52:56,316 --> 00:52:58,756
Speaker 1: The Art and Science of Getting Happier, and it's out

1151
00:52:58,796 --> 00:53:01,516
Speaker 1: for you to buy right now. I hope you enjoyed

1152
00:53:01,516 --> 00:53:03,916
Speaker 1: the special show, and I really do hope you'll make

1153
00:53:03,916 --> 00:53:06,556
Speaker 1: a date to join me, Big Bird, Grover, and Abi

1154
00:53:06,596 --> 00:53:09,596
Speaker 1: Kadabbi when The Happiness Lab returns on September. Rating.

1155
00:53:10,036 --> 00:53:20,916
Speaker 2: This is going to be so magical. Mhm