WEBVTT - Selects: How ESP Works (?)

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, it's Josh and for this week's select, I've

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<v Speaker 1>chosen our twenty fifteen episode on ESP. It's a really

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<v Speaker 1>good one. We talk about all sorts of things about ESP,

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<v Speaker 1>including the science, and I know what you're thinking. You're

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<v Speaker 1>thinking science and ESP. Yes, indeed, and that's one of

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<v Speaker 1>the things that makes this episode so cool. So I

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<v Speaker 1>hope you will open your mind, tune in, turn on,

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<v Speaker 1>drop out, keep on trucking, and enjoy this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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<v Speaker 1>Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even have to look why, I just knew.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and dudes and dudets. We are in our new studio.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, can you tell its own different.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the very first one and it's tiny.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait what do you mean it's the very first one.

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<v Speaker 2>Very very first podcast that we've recorded in here.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh gotcha?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. I said tiny, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's not tiny. It's cozy, but it is all all ours, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>al ours.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody else at House Stuff Works doesn't really know that yet,

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<v Speaker 1>but they will.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Because when we actually have butt detection and when

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<v Speaker 2>someone sits down in these seats that aren't us to

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<v Speaker 2>get a shock.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And plus an alarm goes off at our desks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's it called dmr TM? I how are you, sir?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like this is fancy. This is our first

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<v Speaker 2>real like studio. That's not true.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I'm trying to remember. The last one was.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but it's not a utility closet. It's not a

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<v Speaker 2>lactation room. It's not Yeah, it's not a murder room.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like an office with like desk for like

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<v Speaker 1>office furniture. Yeah, it's a it's a studio that was

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<v Speaker 1>built out for the specific purpose of recording podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep. All we have to do is put up our

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron Cooper originals. The artwork, got a couple of those

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<v Speaker 2>waiting together, and we got to work on the lighting

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<v Speaker 2>in here a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Jerry's said she's gonna hang some china balls for us. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>She keeps pushing the china balls.

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<v Speaker 2>So anyway, enough about that. We just wanted to say

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<v Speaker 2>we're super excited to be in our new office, in

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<v Speaker 2>our new studio.

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<v Speaker 1>It does feel good. Yeah, kudos for that intro. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not going to say that. I knew you were going

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<v Speaker 1>to say that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was going to say that too.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew that you were thinking of saying that, Chuck.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, ESP.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you believe in ESP?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>No, not at all. Do you what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>it is? Because surely, I mean, just about anyone could

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<v Speaker 1>agree that humans have some sort of ability somehow to

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<v Speaker 1>make good guesses or to predict the future, or whatever

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<v Speaker 1>you want to call it. Do you agree or do

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<v Speaker 1>you think it's strictly just us selectively paying attention to

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<v Speaker 1>random instances over others.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's that, and as we'll talk about, I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's the just the nature of coincidence is going

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<v Speaker 2>to happen because so many things happen every day that

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<v Speaker 2>something is bound to seem like something you dreamed about

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<v Speaker 2>the night before at some point in your life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But the other millions of dreams you have that, don't

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<v Speaker 2>I think those are the ones that are the the

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<v Speaker 2>tell you know? Do you?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know? Like I want to. I spent so

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<v Speaker 1>many years of my life believing in stuff like that, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and wanting to go to Duke University to study at

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<v Speaker 1>their parapsychology department. Did you really believe? Yeah, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>believing in ghosts and all this and just that's how

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<v Speaker 1>I spent my childhood just reading about stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Very so Ghostbusters really did a number on you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah. When that came along, I was like

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<v Speaker 1>this for me, Yeah, but as an adult, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>so much that I believe in ESP. It's more that

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<v Speaker 1>I I refuse to just utterly disbelieve in the possibility

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<v Speaker 1>of it. Sure, okay, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I got you there, because we don't know everything

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<v Speaker 2>about everything yet, right, but uh yeah, I'm in the

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the other camp. And I'm not even gonna say

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<v Speaker 2>the sceptic camp because those people just plug me.

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<v Speaker 1>Has a bad name, some due to some bad apples.

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<v Speaker 1>Not all skeptics, No, but there are some that are

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<v Speaker 1>horses asses. Can we say that?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. We'll find out, all right, Well, let's

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<v Speaker 2>talk about And I thought this was interesting because I

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<v Speaker 2>never knew that ESP is just a big collective term

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<v Speaker 2>for all manner of par paranormal phenomena. You could also

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<v Speaker 2>call PSI.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so a dude named jb Ryan who will

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<v Speaker 1>talk about later.

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<v Speaker 2>He coined ESP the Granddaddy.

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<v Speaker 1>And then in the forties another guy coined the term

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<v Speaker 1>PSI and PSI is a Greek letter and it's equated

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<v Speaker 1>with psyche or the soul ps i. And the reason

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<v Speaker 1>that the guy chose PI is because he felt ESP

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<v Speaker 1>suggested it was something supernatural. Yeah, sure, and SI he

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<v Speaker 1>felt suggested that this is a normal part of humanity.

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<v Speaker 1>We just don't understand it.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like science, right. But there are several categories

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<v Speaker 2>of ESP, and this is the one that I never

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<v Speaker 2>knew the actual definitions for these. I sort of just

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<v Speaker 2>threw them all in a bag together. You have telepathy,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's when you can you know, you're over there

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<v Speaker 2>reading my thoughts. Yes, like Chuck is really not happy

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<v Speaker 2>to be in the new studio.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not true.

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<v Speaker 2>He'd rather be at home on the couch.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm reading your thoughts right now, and I know that

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<v Speaker 1>you like this place.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, you're a telep right. Clairvoyance, which is the

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<v Speaker 2>ability to see events or things objects happening somewhere else

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<v Speaker 2>at the same time. So are you doing are you clairvoyant?

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<v Speaker 1>I am. I'm seeing your couch right now and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>seeing it's not that comfy. Yeah, so you're not missing

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<v Speaker 1>that much at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>I know somewhere Jonathan Strickland is waxing his head, bald head.

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<v Speaker 1>That's just a logical assumption.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. Then we have our pre cogs precognition, that's when

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<v Speaker 2>you see into the future, retrocogs retro cognition. You can

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<v Speaker 2>see into the distant past.

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<v Speaker 1>That's there's another that's a widely accepted definition of retrocognition. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>like seeing you know, cave like TikTok running around with

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<v Speaker 1>the dinosaurs like you do, which I guess never would

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<v Speaker 1>have happened. Yeah, But there's another term for retrocognition, whereas

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<v Speaker 1>something in the future affects something in the past. So

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<v Speaker 1>a decision you make in the future, yeah, affects your past.

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<v Speaker 1>And an example given is that you have a dream

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<v Speaker 1>about a dinosaur. Now, let's say a spotted dog, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the first thing the next morning, you go

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<v Speaker 1>outside to water your lawn and this same spotted dog

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<v Speaker 1>or a similar spotted dog walks by. The idea isn't

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<v Speaker 1>that that was very coincidental or that you had esp

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<v Speaker 1>in your dreams, Yeah, but that you seeing that dog

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning affected your dream the night before. Oh okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's another definition that's emerging for retrocognition. That's getting

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of traction because of the stuff we're finding

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<v Speaker 1>on the quantum scale, just weirdness like that.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. Then you have your mediumship and that's miss

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<v Speaker 2>Cleo who can channel dead spirits.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I forgot about her.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you heard.

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<v Speaker 1>How much money that woman grossed in the nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>She made a lot of dough, I hope. So yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Mean she was working hard. She had a finite window

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<v Speaker 1>of opportunity, and she worked that whole time. She didn't

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<v Speaker 1>like buy a sailboat and sail around the world after

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<v Speaker 1>like first million. You know, like she worked.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're not in the camp of like she's taking

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<v Speaker 2>people's money and taking advantage of people.

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<v Speaker 1>I see that argument, sure, for sure. I also see

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<v Speaker 1>like if people want to spend their money on that

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<v Speaker 1>and they get something out of it, knock yourself out.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. And then you have a psychometry, which is

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<v Speaker 2>the ability to read info about a person place by

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<v Speaker 2>touching the person no object. And that's what I like

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<v Speaker 2>to call the dead zone. Right, Christopher Walkin, he would

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<v Speaker 2>place his hands on you and he would see something.

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<v Speaker 1>Man. I think we talked about it recently about how

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<v Speaker 1>that movie holds up. Still. Yeah, that is such a

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<v Speaker 1>good movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really is good, Chris Walkin.

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<v Speaker 1>There's another one, Chuck called telekinesis, which is like Uri

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<v Speaker 1>Geller stroking a spoon in it bending right, like being

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<v Speaker 1>able to manipulate matter just using a light touch of

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<v Speaker 1>your mind.

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<v Speaker 2>But there is no spoon. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Wasn't that from Matrix?

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<v Speaker 2>All right? So basically, like you said, jb Ryan is

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<v Speaker 2>the granddaddy of all this, and he actually started studying.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, he was a legitimate scientist. He wasn't some quack.

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<v Speaker 2>And this was in the nineteen thirties where he started

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<v Speaker 2>at Duke University studying para parapsychology basically.

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<v Speaker 1>And he wasn't the first. He was one of the

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<v Speaker 1>first laboratory experimenters in academia to really study SAI. Right

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<v Speaker 1>before him, probably about forty or so years before him,

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<v Speaker 1>William James and some of his pals at the Society

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<v Speaker 1>for Psychical Research really laid the groundwork for applying the

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<v Speaker 1>scientific method to the study of paranormal phenomenonah, and they

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<v Speaker 1>did two things. They outed frauds, like fraudulent mediums, like

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<v Speaker 1>very famously Madame Bleovartsky. But then they also investigated ones

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<v Speaker 1>like the reach them typically with like an open mind. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and if they found somebody that they just couldn't explain,

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<v Speaker 1>they would they studied them. So they were they were

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<v Speaker 1>studying each one with an open mind. And the ones

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<v Speaker 1>they figured out were frauds they outed as frauds. The

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<v Speaker 1>ones they figured out it couldn't quite explain. Yeah, they

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<v Speaker 1>sought to investigate scientifically rather than just saying, oh, they're

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<v Speaker 1>frauds somehow, right, So that was the groundwork of the

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<v Speaker 1>study of cy.

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<v Speaker 2>What was Madame Blevartsky Steele of the Cony?

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<v Speaker 1>She was she actually she was almost a cult leader,

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<v Speaker 1>you could argue she was. She she created Oh man,

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<v Speaker 1>it's called like theodism, I think, huh, which is it was?

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<v Speaker 1>It was almost a cult. It was a huge movement

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineteenth century where like you go to like

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<v Speaker 1>a seance and there was a medium there and they

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<v Speaker 1>would channel like the spirits of the dead relatives of

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<v Speaker 1>people who were there, holding hands in the circle and

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<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. And she gained a lot of power

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<v Speaker 1>and wealth and prestige until she was outed as a fraud.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't remember the the it's theosophy, that's what

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<v Speaker 1>it is. Theoism. Theoism has to do with theo Huxtable.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you see The Source Family, by the way, that documentary. No,

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't about the La cult in the seventies.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw the icon on Netflix and never clicked as a.

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<v Speaker 2>Good it's really good and it's it's awesome. Actually, I

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<v Speaker 2>recommend everyone see. It's one of those where they interview

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of them today and they weren't like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't commit suicide like everyone was like, it was

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<v Speaker 2>pretty great.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>They're all fine. They're all just a bunch of hippies.

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<v Speaker 2>Still they were out in La Yeah, yeah, right in Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 1>There was one in There was a documentary I saw

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<v Speaker 1>about a cult in Miami and they were like super

0:11:55.320 --> 0:12:00.319
<v Speaker 1>fundamentalist Christian but they also were the basis of their

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<v Speaker 1>religion was formed on pot too.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what the Source Family was.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if they were related.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was the seventies. Yeah, there were a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of pot cults, I bet.

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<v Speaker 1>But did they turn into like huge pot dealers.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think so this cult did. They had

0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:16.439
<v Speaker 2>a band though, and.

0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:17.959
<v Speaker 1>The called the Source M.

0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.959
<v Speaker 2>You know, I can't remember the name of the band,

0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:22.520
<v Speaker 2>but it's pretty interesting.

0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.200
<v Speaker 1>To Manhattan Transfer.

0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was. It's a really good documentary that it's

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 2>just funny to see how these people now they're like,

0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 2>it was awesome. Yeah, I had a lot of sex

0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:30.960
<v Speaker 2>and smoked a lot of weed.

0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's kind of what got hurt too. They these

0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:35.880
<v Speaker 1>guys didn't seem to have a lot of sex though.

0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 1>They were like real like compartmentalized gender wise, like male

0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 1>dominance and all that. But they just smoked a ton

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.800
<v Speaker 1>of pot all the time, including their little kids. Oh well,

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.000
<v Speaker 1>that's not good, like like four year old smoking.

0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's terrible.

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was in the documentary. It's worse seeing I

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:52.440
<v Speaker 1>don't remember what you.

0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Had me up. You lost me there.

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 1>I lost everybody there in that documentary.

0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. All right, So back to this ESP thing. Jb

0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.719
<v Speaker 2>Ryan Yeah, jb Ryan, Well, basically, there's a there's a

0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.839
<v Speaker 2>lot of different outlooks on what ESP might be. Some

0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:14.280
<v Speaker 2>people think that everyone's got it, but some people it

0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.439
<v Speaker 2>just pops up every now and then, like I might

0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.680
<v Speaker 2>have a dream that comes true or whatever. Other people

0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>think that only certain people have it, they have the

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 2>gift as they say, uh, and that they have to

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 2>be in this special like you know, mental state to

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.800
<v Speaker 2>access it the shinn, yeah, the shinning. And then other

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.480
<v Speaker 2>folks say that everyone has that potential, but some people

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 2>are just like in tune with it, and some people aren't.

0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, and you fall into none of those three camp Yes,

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:50.520
<v Speaker 1>So we'll talk a little more about some ideas of

0:13:50.800 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 1>what ESP is right after this. So, Chuck, you said

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 1>that basically how people see ESP is either everyone has it,

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>some people have it, or no one has it. Basically,

0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 1>whether you're a skeptic or a believer. If you are

0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>a believer in ESP and somebody comes to you and says, okay,

0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>explain ESP, like what is it, there's actually a couple

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 1>of very common suggestions or proposals.

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 1>One made sense for a while before we knew a

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:46.160
<v Speaker 1>little more about the brain, and that was that ESP

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 1>was some form or fashion of the electromagnetic spectrum that

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:57.120
<v Speaker 1>we were receiving information from outside of our usual senses.

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And like you said, it fell out of favor

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 2>because basically it didn't explain anything about how it moves

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 2>through time or there. It didn't pick up on some

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.800
<v Speaker 2>special part of your brain that receives this message.

0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 1>And there was a did you see that study I

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 1>sent you? That was I think from twenty ten where

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.960
<v Speaker 1>they put people in an MRI and then showed them

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 1>different pictures or whatever, and they did they showed like,

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 1>I put you in the Wonder machine and now I'm

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 1>showing you a picture of the flower and that's it.

0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's lovely, except it sounds like a German rave.

0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, a little bit. But that would be the non

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.120
<v Speaker 1>ESP stimuli the control group to test ESP and to

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.400
<v Speaker 1>see if the brain reacted differently, and then to see

0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 1>if there was a part of the brain that's picking

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.600
<v Speaker 1>up on ESP, I would show you the flower, and

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.680
<v Speaker 1>then in the other room, I would also show Emily

0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:02.240
<v Speaker 1>that flower, I think about it and send you the

0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 1>thought of that flower. So you're getting ESP stimuli and

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.560
<v Speaker 1>then non ESP stimuli. And from the MRI they showed

0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 1>that the brain didn't react differently.

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha.

0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>So it suggests that there isn't a sensory organ or

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 1>region of the brain that's responsible for picking up ESP,

0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 1>which doesn't debunk the possibility of ESP. It just undermines

0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 1>the idea that there's a region of our brain that

0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.240
<v Speaker 1>would be responsible for picking that up.

0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Plus, I Emily's over there, My first guess is gonna

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 2>be dog every time, and it's flower.

0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.640
<v Speaker 1>And then well, it wasn't about guessing. It was just

0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.800
<v Speaker 1>to see, like showing you the ESP version, right, and

0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.040
<v Speaker 1>then the non ESP version of the same thing. So

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.000
<v Speaker 1>you weren't guessing, do you understand?

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I get it. No, I would have guessed dog

0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:47.680
<v Speaker 2>or wine.

0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.800
<v Speaker 1>There wasn't guessing, That's what I guessed.

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Emily thinks she has a gift a little bit, so

0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 2>she would have been disappointed. She's got the shin Yeah,

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 2>a little, she thinks. Yeah, But I think she is

0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.560
<v Speaker 2>just super observant and intuitive.

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.360
<v Speaker 1>But that's definitely one explanation for it.

0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which we'll get to of course. So these days

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:13.400
<v Speaker 2>there are other theories, one of which is that it's

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:18.399
<v Speaker 2>called spillover, that there's basically another dimension that that doesn't

0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, have our laws here and our dimension, and

0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.879
<v Speaker 2>that sometimes stuff just sort of spills over from that

0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 2>and we see the future or the past.

0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And if you're a skeptic, you probably just pull

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.840
<v Speaker 1>the decent size clump of your hair out of the

0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 1>side of your head at that point.

0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because this is something you can't prove obviously, it's

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:43.199
<v Speaker 2>like completely and of course they'll say it exactly. Yeah,

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:43.439
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think I got the impression from this

0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 1>article that they were making that point, like science is

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.240
<v Speaker 1>just chasing its tail and trying to explain ESP because

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:58.760
<v Speaker 1>it's not currently capable and science goes doesn't work like that. Yeah,

0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:04.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, at least with the electromagnetic spectrum explanation, it

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.880
<v Speaker 1>was pointing to something that we already know exists, right,

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 1>It's just that there's no way to show that we

0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.320
<v Speaker 1>would be getting how we would be getting information from it,

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:23.840
<v Speaker 1>because that electromagnetic explanation, Yeah, it basically says if you

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.280
<v Speaker 1>compare it to other findings from ESP, it makes even

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.760
<v Speaker 1>less sense. Right, Because with ESP, one of the hallmarks

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.440
<v Speaker 1>of it is that no matter whether you're out there

0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 1>outside of the studio thinking about wine or a dog

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.640
<v Speaker 1>or something and I'm picking up on it, or if

0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.480
<v Speaker 1>you're in China and I'm here and we're doing the

0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.840
<v Speaker 1>same thing, the signal doesn't weaken at all.

0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that just flies in the face of all

0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 2>we know about electromagnetic.

0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 1>Rights exactly, no good, right, So there's a lot of

0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.520
<v Speaker 1>things wrong with the proposals of what ESP is.

0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but you know, the reason why still people still

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.600
<v Speaker 2>believe in this stuff is because of either hearing a

0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 2>story about their friend who said, you know, listen to

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.399
<v Speaker 2>this crazy thing happened, or experiencing it themselves in some

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 2>way or another, having a dream that something similar happened,

0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:13.439
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden you're like, I might at

0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.800
<v Speaker 2>the gift exactly where it popped up in me, you know,

0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 2>briefly at least.

0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.320
<v Speaker 1>And there's a I mean, there's a lot of evidence

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:27.919
<v Speaker 1>of a strange and unusual occurrences, sure that support the

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:29.040
<v Speaker 1>idea of ESP.

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.439
<v Speaker 1>This article gives a really good one about an eighteen

0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:35.160
<v Speaker 1>ninety eight book called Futility.

0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:35.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was.

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Written by a guy named Morgan Robertson right, And in

0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.440
<v Speaker 1>it the guy details this book or this boat called.

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:44.720
<v Speaker 2>The titan Ship.

0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah ship, the boat a big old boat, yeah, which

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.919
<v Speaker 1>is sailing across the Atlantic and hits an iceberg at

0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.720
<v Speaker 1>night and sinks and a bunch of people die because

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.000
<v Speaker 1>they weren't enough lifeboats.

0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:59.920
<v Speaker 1>This is eighteen ninety eight and if that sounds familiar.

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.840
<v Speaker 1>The Titanic did the same exact thing, the Titanic, not

0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.399
<v Speaker 1>the titan Yeah, did the same exact thing fourteen years later.

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:11.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if there are a bunch of similarities. The titan

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.000
<v Speaker 2>struck an iceberg in the book on the starboard side

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:15.960
<v Speaker 2>on an April night in the North Atlantic, off the

0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>coast of Newfoundland, and the real Titanic struck an iceberg

0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 2>on the starboard side in April in the North Atlantic,

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:23.320
<v Speaker 2>off the coast of Newfoundland.

0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:24.320
<v Speaker 1>And the starless night.

0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about that, Okay. They were both said

0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.560
<v Speaker 2>to be unsinkable. More than half of the passengers of

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.919
<v Speaker 2>the Titanic perished, and more than half of the passengers

0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.640
<v Speaker 2>and crew on the titan perished. So there's all these

0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.200
<v Speaker 2>things in there. But you do a little more digging

0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:46.200
<v Speaker 2>and you find out that Robertson was he was a seaman,

0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.080
<v Speaker 2>and he knew a bunch of this stuff. And it's

0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.399
<v Speaker 2>not unreasonable to think at the time they wanted to

0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.359
<v Speaker 2>build the biggest ships, and the word titan would be

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.920
<v Speaker 2>a great name back then for a super big ship, right,

0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.959
<v Speaker 2>And that sailing route was a common one, and there

0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.600
<v Speaker 2>were icebergs and April might have been a common month

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.159
<v Speaker 2>for that kind of voyage, so all of it can

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.880
<v Speaker 2>be explained away kind of. But it is definitely something

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 2>you look at and go, oh interesting.

0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 1>It is interesting and it's amazing coincidence, and it focuses

0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:21.320
<v Speaker 1>the attention and captures the imagination. But then, yeah, once

0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 1>you hear about Robertson's background, it becomes slightly less impressive.

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 1>So then kind of too over the years that little

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.399
<v Speaker 1>Colonel got erased and added to it was that this

0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:35.680
<v Speaker 1>idea for this book came to him in a trance,

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:37.240
<v Speaker 1>which bolsters the.

0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:39.119
<v Speaker 2>Esp th Yeah, is that true or is that just

0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:40.439
<v Speaker 2>been added?

0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure it was added over the years, Okay. Which

0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.080
<v Speaker 1>is a big problem with this kind of anecdotal evidence

0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:50.480
<v Speaker 1>is that you know, it gets embellished in urban Yeah, exactly.

0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 1>And it's just it's not enough that this is a

0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:59.800
<v Speaker 1>really interesting, unique circumstance or coincidence or whatever. There has

0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 1>to be this extra layer of proof, like it came

0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 1>to him in a trance.

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Come on. Yeah. So back to Ryan, he did some

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 2>like I said, in the nineteen thirties, he started studying

0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:16.640
<v Speaker 2>the stuff with one of my favorite inventions by his

0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 2>colleague Carl Zenner. Of course, if you've seen Ghostbusters he

0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 2>was using. He was using a version of Zenner cards.

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.280
<v Speaker 2>The shapes weren't all exactly. I think there was one

0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:31.920
<v Speaker 2>that was different in Ghostbusters, but the original Xenner cards were.

0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.399
<v Speaker 2>It was a deck of twenty five plane white cards,

0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.760
<v Speaker 2>with each of them had one of five symbols a circle,

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.960
<v Speaker 2>a plus sign, a square, a star, five pointed star,

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.800
<v Speaker 2>and the three wavy lines.

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Like water a river?

0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Is that what that is?

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe?

0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay? And the idea is that, just like in Ghostbusters,

0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.080
<v Speaker 2>you hold it up and asked the you know, not

0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.600
<v Speaker 2>showing them the card at obviously not the symbol, and

0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.480
<v Speaker 2>say what do you see? And they say what they see?

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.880
<v Speaker 2>And then you record after the deck how many they.

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Got right, right, But the person holding the card is

0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.960
<v Speaker 1>supposed to be thinking about what they're seeing, sure, so

0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:15.560
<v Speaker 1>that the other person, the target, the receiver, can pick

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 1>it up telepathically.

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I did they have these online. I took

0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.320
<v Speaker 2>the test yesterday and I went through the twenty five

0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 2>deck and I only got six out of twenty five.

0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 2>And at the end it just said you are not

0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:29.120
<v Speaker 2>a psychic.

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh really?

0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I thought it was kind of funny.

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:36.479
<v Speaker 1>Statistically speaking, for just one trial that is more than chance.

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:39.240
<v Speaker 1>You did better than chance. So maybe you do have

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:40.000
<v Speaker 1>a touch.

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 2>Six of what would chance be?

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.360
<v Speaker 1>I guess chance would be if there's five different ones.

0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 2>To be twenty percent, and so this was six of

0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty four would be it? No, that's less.

0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, you did six of twenty four. So you

0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 1>did twenty four or twenty five twenty five, so five

0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:02.000
<v Speaker 1>of twenty five would be chance.

0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I got one more? Yeah, well, and I

0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:07.879
<v Speaker 2>think like three of the first eight or so or

0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:09.800
<v Speaker 2>six I got And I was like.

0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I've got the gift, right, but I.

0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:15.399
<v Speaker 2>Didn't know, Like it's randomly generated, so it's not like

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.119
<v Speaker 2>someone was on the other side thinking of that card.

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:20.480
<v Speaker 2>So I literally I was like, what do I do?

0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:21.640
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I'm just guessing.

0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.840
<v Speaker 1>So that brings up some interesting stuff, like there's there's

0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:30.239
<v Speaker 1>evidence that when a machine is involved, Yeah, there is

0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:34.960
<v Speaker 1>no telepathy. There would only be clairvoyance, right, yeah, So

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.679
<v Speaker 1>I mean if telepathy is you picking up what's in

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:42.159
<v Speaker 1>someone else's mind and a computer is mindless, then you

0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:45.159
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be able what you were saying, like, you should

0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:47.439
<v Speaker 1>it shouldn't you should not be able to know what

0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:50.680
<v Speaker 1>zener card it's going to pick next, right, But there

0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:55.800
<v Speaker 1>have been investigations using computers and using machines that show

0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:01.199
<v Speaker 1>above chance, yeah, that there is some sort of weird interaction.

0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Like a random number generators.

0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, So Princeton University has a department called the

0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:10.479
<v Speaker 1>Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Department PAIR, right, of course, and

0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Pair has been doing studies for a couple of decades.

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:17.040
<v Speaker 1>They've done millions of trials and basically they'll say, this

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 1>is a random number generator or this this machine operates

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.719
<v Speaker 1>randomly or whatever. We want you to think of a number,

0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.359
<v Speaker 1>and we want to see if you can influence the

0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:28.720
<v Speaker 1>numbers that this computer spits out.

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh so you're thinking of the number, then the you're okay.

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:34.600
<v Speaker 1>That makes like the human is trying to affect the computer,

0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:38.600
<v Speaker 1>the output the behavior of the computer. Of course, if

0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:42.119
<v Speaker 1>you're sitting across the room or in another room thinking

0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 1>about a number that a random generator should put out,

0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:47.440
<v Speaker 1>it should have zero effect whatsoever.

0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:48.159
<v Speaker 2>It's a computer.

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:51.080
<v Speaker 1>The weird thing is is what Princeton has found is

0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:55.560
<v Speaker 1>that yes, over enough trials, you there is a slight

0:25:55.960 --> 0:26:01.040
<v Speaker 1>very slight but measurable effect that human has on a

0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:04.879
<v Speaker 1>random number generator. Come on, it's on Princeton's website. And

0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:07.359
<v Speaker 1>this is stuff that like is apparently accepted in the

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:11.919
<v Speaker 1>in the scientific community that the trials that they are

0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:16.240
<v Speaker 1>running are so widespread and so repeatable and have been

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:19.119
<v Speaker 1>done so many times that the data that they're coming

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:22.920
<v Speaker 1>up with is it's significant.

0:26:23.359 --> 0:26:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, Ryan with his inner card experiments in the thirties

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:31.160
<v Speaker 2>did find that some people got what they thought were

0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 2>pretty impressive results, like you know a few I can't

0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 2>remember their names, but Hubert Pierce was he one of them.

0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:38.240
<v Speaker 1>He was the one how.

0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Many what was his percentage?

0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:42.680
<v Speaker 1>He had one where he got remember how you got

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 1>three in a row and you were like, oh my god, Yeah,

0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:47.400
<v Speaker 1>he got twenty five in a row once? What twenty five?

0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Come on, No, I'm not kidding. He was also documented

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:54.720
<v Speaker 1>as selecting five hundred and fifty eight correct out of

0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 1>eighteen hundred and fifty which is the odds of that

0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:02.160
<v Speaker 1>happening by chain. Yeah, we're twenty two billion to one.

0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:06.399
<v Speaker 2>Now, were these the early experiments because okay, because I

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:10.000
<v Speaker 2>did read that and this seems like I can't believe

0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:13.240
<v Speaker 2>he didn't check this, but apparently the early cards were

0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:16.560
<v Speaker 2>a little translucent. Oh really, yeah, some of them were.

0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:18.520
<v Speaker 2>And then he corrected for that and the and the

0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:23.240
<v Speaker 2>percentages went down. And then they, I know, other scientists

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:28.720
<v Speaker 2>said that you are somehow influencing with your body tell right,

0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:31.160
<v Speaker 2>like you basically you don't have a good enough poker vase.

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:34.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. In the earliest Ryan experiments with the xener cards,

0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:36.600
<v Speaker 1>he would hold the card up and go and he'd

0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:41.639
<v Speaker 1>be making eye contacts right the guy. Yeah, The guesser

0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:44.679
<v Speaker 1>would be like, is it the wavy line? Yeah, he

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:50.399
<v Speaker 1>started shaking his head almost in perseent, but he uh he.

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:55.159
<v Speaker 1>That's called sensory leakage, where you the person who is

0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:57.920
<v Speaker 1>holding the card and knows who the card is. Yeah,

0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:01.639
<v Speaker 1>somehow there's some detail about your face that when you

0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:04.960
<v Speaker 1>do a thousand trials with somebody, yeah, they start to

0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:07.840
<v Speaker 1>pick up on and it affects their guests. It influences

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:11.439
<v Speaker 1>their guests. So to correct for that, to control for

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:18.119
<v Speaker 1>that sensory leakage, that cross, Yeah, they they came up

0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:20.600
<v Speaker 1>with something called the gans Field experiment.

0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Ah. Yes, as a German gunsfeld that means whole field

0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:29.679
<v Speaker 2>in German, and that is when they started putting people,

0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:34.080
<v Speaker 2>they would start depriving their other senses. Basically, right, they

0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:37.680
<v Speaker 2>would be in a like a dimly lit room with

0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:40.800
<v Speaker 2>red lighting, and they would have white noise, and they

0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:44.520
<v Speaker 2>would have their eyes covered with these special glasses.

0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Or ping pong balls cut in half like Kermit the Frog.

0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:49.320
<v Speaker 2>I guess later on they said, we should just make

0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:50.360
<v Speaker 2>some glasses.

0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, We've got the funding.

0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 2>So basically the idea was, let's rule out any uh

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.080
<v Speaker 2>any of that gross sensory leakage.

0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which he so apparently. Later on in Ryan's experiments,

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:11.280
<v Speaker 1>after he started controlling for stuff, the percentages started to

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:17.320
<v Speaker 1>drop of correct guesses. He was also he's generally a

0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:22.640
<v Speaker 1>respected researcher for a couple of reasons. One, whenever he

0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:28.280
<v Speaker 1>did whenever evidence of like some sort of bias or

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:30.880
<v Speaker 1>fraud or something was brought to him, he corrected for it.

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he wore glasses and a white coat, right.

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:37.400
<v Speaker 1>That was another one. But also he was daring enough

0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:44.480
<v Speaker 1>to stake his entire career on a field of study

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:50.080
<v Speaker 1>that will get anybody mocked publicly privately, can really shut

0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:53.200
<v Speaker 1>down a lot of opportunities for you. This guy and

0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:58.120
<v Speaker 1>his wife Louisa Ryan both dedicated their careers to establishing

0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 1>the field of parapsychology and really studying it rather than

0:30:02.000 --> 0:30:03.200
<v Speaker 1>just walking away from it.

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think he was like, I really want

0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:06.480
<v Speaker 2>to prove this is true?

0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Was he?

0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he did that.

0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:13.080
<v Speaker 1>That was a huge criticism of him. He got you

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 1>was a definite believer. He was quoted by I don't

0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:21.560
<v Speaker 1>know what the guy's steal was, but one day he

0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 1>was visited by one person and the interviewer who went

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:28.320
<v Speaker 1>on to write a paper I think in Scientific American

0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:32.160
<v Speaker 1>to expose him. He said he kept a file of

0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:38.360
<v Speaker 1>people of the results of tests where people he suspected

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:41.960
<v Speaker 1>were purposefully getting things wrong because they didn't like him

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:44.800
<v Speaker 1>to mess with his data. He just took those and

0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 1>never published them. He didn't include him in the results,

0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 1>which would definitely affect the number of correct hits.

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:57.000
<v Speaker 1>That was a huge criticism. That's not good science at all.

0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:00.320
<v Speaker 1>But he was definitely a believer, which was another criticism.

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 1>But he was daring and he did. There was another

0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.600
<v Speaker 1>story where it's called the Levy affair, where a guy

0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 1>named Levy, who was an electrical engineer working in the

0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:15.920
<v Speaker 1>lab unplugged I guess the sensor that would correct negative

0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:18.920
<v Speaker 1>hits for a little while during a trial, so that

0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:21.680
<v Speaker 1>all that were recorded for a little bit were positive hits,

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>and then he plugged it back in. Well, this one

0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:27.960
<v Speaker 1>guy saw what the guy was doing and went to Ryan,

0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:30.160
<v Speaker 1>and Ryan went to the guy Levy and said, did

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 1>you do this? And Levy said yes, he's like you're fired,

0:31:32.720 --> 0:31:34.520
<v Speaker 1>and just like threw the results away and all that.

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.640
<v Speaker 1>So he wasn't like he was a true believer, but

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:40.400
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't just some like outright fraud right right, But

0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 1>he was and still is under the microscope as much

0:31:43.560 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 1>as probably any researcher in all of academia ever has been.

0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, right after this break, we'll talk a

0:31:50.360 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 2>little bit about what skeptics say about ESB. All right, Josh.

0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:13.480
<v Speaker 2>One thing you'll hear skeptics say a lot is extraordinary

0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:17.960
<v Speaker 2>claims require extraordinary evidence. And I have to agree with them. Yeah,

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:22.680
<v Speaker 2>And it is an extraordinary claim here, and so far

0:32:22.840 --> 0:32:27.560
<v Speaker 2>there hasn't been extraordinary evidence. And one of the things

0:32:27.560 --> 0:32:29.680
<v Speaker 2>I pointed to earlier that I think is what's going

0:32:29.680 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 2>on if you look at statistics, you look at six

0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:37.760
<v Speaker 2>billion people on planet Earth and them thinking a gazillion

0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:42.320
<v Speaker 2>things each day, and that is scientific, by the way, gazillion.

0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:45.400
<v Speaker 2>At some point somebody is going to think something that

0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:49.400
<v Speaker 2>mirrors something that happens in the near future, and it's

0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 2>just chance and coincidence.

0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:53.400
<v Speaker 1>I have a great example of that, man. Okay, it

0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:57.120
<v Speaker 1>happened this very morning. What yeah, I did. I was

0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:00.120
<v Speaker 1>at the printer. You know, we just moved offices, and

0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:02.080
<v Speaker 1>I was at the printer and I had like an

0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:05.040
<v Speaker 1>extra pizza paper that I didn't need, and I realized, like,

0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:06.840
<v Speaker 1>we have no paper recycling here.

0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:10.080
<v Speaker 2>So on my way back yet that is everyone out

0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 2>there is like, what kind of office would I.

0:33:12.120 --> 0:33:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Right, we just said we have a fifty five gallon

0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:17.680
<v Speaker 1>drum that we throw stuff into that it catches on fire.

0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then we send it out.

0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>We have a burning drum, that's what it's called.

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Now we're getting those soon.

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Right, And we are getting them soon. I know this

0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:27.280
<v Speaker 1>because on my way back to my desk, I popped

0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:29.680
<v Speaker 1>into Izzy, the it guy who's also the head of

0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 1>all recycling and stuff here. I was like, Izzy, we

0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:37.160
<v Speaker 1>need a paper recycling bins by the printer, and he goes,

0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm writing an email right now to everybody about that

0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:42.480
<v Speaker 1>very thing.

0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:44.120
<v Speaker 2>You almost did your Izzy impression.

0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:49.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was close, and so, like I thought about it,

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:53.760
<v Speaker 1>that's pretty amazing. Yeah, you know, but it was about

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:56.680
<v Speaker 1>nine in the morning, and this is a company wide email,

0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:58.720
<v Speaker 1>so it would be something that Izzy would probably knock

0:33:58.760 --> 0:33:59.560
<v Speaker 1>out about that time.

0:33:59.680 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:01.920
<v Speaker 1>The reason I was thinking of is because I was

0:34:02.080 --> 0:34:05.440
<v Speaker 1>just at the printer. We just moved into this office

0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 1>and we didn't have bins yet, so it was still

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:10.360
<v Speaker 1>a potential thing for somebody to be thinking about or

0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.799
<v Speaker 1>doing or writing an email about. And so there's all

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 1>these different, really overlooked variables or factors to this whole

0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 1>thing that you don't think of. Instead, it just seems

0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:25.239
<v Speaker 1>like an amazing coincidence or ESP. To me, the really

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.719
<v Speaker 1>significant thing was that I happened to be researching ESP

0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:31.879
<v Speaker 1>while this happened. That's what really kind of stood out

0:34:31.920 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 1>to me. But if you really kind of look at it,

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.000
<v Speaker 1>like there's a finite amount of things that people could

0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:40.280
<v Speaker 1>think about in any given day, in any given context

0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:43.920
<v Speaker 1>in an office or something like that, Like had I

0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:46.680
<v Speaker 1>been a goat at a petting zoo and I went

0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:49.960
<v Speaker 1>over and talked to the cow and the cow was

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:55.400
<v Speaker 1>writing the email about recycling bins. Maybe, but we're in

0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:58.759
<v Speaker 1>an office. I'm talking to the guy about recycling bins.

0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:01.080
<v Speaker 1>There's just a lot of stuff that you kind of

0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Once you take that into account, it becomes less amazing,

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Like like the guy writing the Titan Titanic book.

0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what used to happen to me now

0:35:08.960 --> 0:35:11.319
<v Speaker 2>that I think of it is I used to and

0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:13.960
<v Speaker 2>this it's weird. It was only with phone landlines. It

0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:16.319
<v Speaker 2>hadn't happened with the cell phone. But I used to

0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 2>like know the phone was going to ring right before

0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:22.279
<v Speaker 2>it rang. Oh yeah, like almost go to reach for it.

0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.160
<v Speaker 2>And I mean it's not like it happened all the time,

0:35:26.200 --> 0:35:27.759
<v Speaker 2>but it happened enough times where I was like, oh,

0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 2>that's weird.

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Sure, I know what you're talking about.

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:31.880
<v Speaker 2>But that was all it was to me. I was

0:35:31.920 --> 0:35:33.080
<v Speaker 2>not like I have the gift.

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Well think about it in that respect too. You know

0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:40.440
<v Speaker 1>fifteen twenty people. So was it you knew who was

0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:42.000
<v Speaker 1>calling or just that the phone was about.

0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:43.319
<v Speaker 2>To run now just that it was about to ring.

0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that is weird. You definitely do have.

0:35:45.280 --> 0:35:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Esp yeah, or maybe I don't know, maybe the phone

0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:54.600
<v Speaker 2>made a little tick noise right before it rang that

0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:57.799
<v Speaker 2>I didn't pick up on. Yeah, but only subconsciously, you know.

0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's another explanation for it. That, right, that there

0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:08.600
<v Speaker 1>is subliminal stuff in the environment that is just too

0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:12.000
<v Speaker 1>weak in nature for us to pick up on consciously,

0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:15.720
<v Speaker 1>but our unconscious does or subconscious does, which frankly opens

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:18.919
<v Speaker 1>up a whole other can of worms. You know, as

0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:21.160
<v Speaker 1>far as you know, how real is that kind of

0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:26.120
<v Speaker 1>thing there, But probably a little closer to reality is

0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:30.520
<v Speaker 1>the idea that our attention isn't focused on everything that

0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 1>we're picking up at all times, like like I see

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 1>your beard, and I see your shirt and everything, but

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm still also picking up like sensory information from like

0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Jerry's computer that I can see in my peripheral vision

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:43.200
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. My attention isn't focused on it, but my

0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.440
<v Speaker 1>brain is still receiving information. So the idea that our

0:36:46.440 --> 0:36:49.040
<v Speaker 1>brains can put it together all this information that we're

0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:53.640
<v Speaker 1>not aware consciously that we're receiving, but we're still getting

0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:57.799
<v Speaker 1>impressions from it. That's that could be a great explanation

0:36:57.880 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 1>for esp as well.

0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know what now to think about it,

0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:03.600
<v Speaker 2>The fact that it's never happened with my cell phone.

0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Sort of makes sense because maybe there it was a

0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.440
<v Speaker 2>mechanical function a landline.

0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, like you said a click or a tick,

0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:12.760
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I think you meant like a click.

0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:15.200
<v Speaker 2>And it wasn't even the newer model. This was back

0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:19.400
<v Speaker 2>in the day when it was yeah, a ringing like bell. Sure,

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:21.200
<v Speaker 2>so maybe that does explain it.

0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I've got another good example that I came across

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:27.520
<v Speaker 1>from researching this. Let's say that you and I are

0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:31.279
<v Speaker 1>hanging out, yeah, and you're humming a Baby on the

0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:34.879
<v Speaker 1>fire work, right, just over and over again. I don't

0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:37.759
<v Speaker 1>know that song, but I'm reading Yes you do, No,

0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't, Yeah you do it? Was it Katy Perry?

0:37:40.239 --> 0:37:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know Katy Perry anyway.

0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Although I will have to say I did love that

0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:48.799
<v Speaker 2>halftime show. It was great, well it was. It was hysterical.

0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:51.239
<v Speaker 1>What's up with the sharks being a meme? Now?

0:37:51.560 --> 0:37:51.840
<v Speaker 2>It was thin?

0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:53.200
<v Speaker 1>They were really significant.

0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:55.200
<v Speaker 2>She looked like she worked at corn Dog on a Stick.

0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:57.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what that is that' thought all corn

0:37:58.000 --> 0:37:58.760
<v Speaker 1>dogs are on sticks.

0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:01.239
<v Speaker 2>It's that place in the Hot Dog on a stick,

0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:04.120
<v Speaker 2>that place in the mall where they were those big

0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:08.279
<v Speaker 2>giant Yeah. No, I don't know anything about Katy Perry,

0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:11.360
<v Speaker 2>but it was the funniest most Like the crazy just

0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:14.400
<v Speaker 2>kept coming and coming, and I was like, this is

0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:17.080
<v Speaker 2>the best thing I've ever seen. So anyway, in.

0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:19.520
<v Speaker 1>This universe, you're well aware of Katy Perry and her

0:38:19.560 --> 0:38:21.839
<v Speaker 1>song Firework, and you're humming it to yourself. But I'm

0:38:21.920 --> 0:38:26.440
<v Speaker 1>sitting there reading the New Yorker and I'm engrossed in it,

0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:29.360
<v Speaker 1>and I don't notice that you get up to go

0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:32.319
<v Speaker 1>make some nachos, and you come back in, and you

0:38:32.400 --> 0:38:34.759
<v Speaker 1>catch my attention because you're coming back in with some

0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:37.719
<v Speaker 1>nachos and they smell awesome, And now my attention is

0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 1>directed to you, and you're still humming Firework right right,

0:38:40.960 --> 0:38:44.880
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, I was just thinking about that song Firework.

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:46.920
<v Speaker 1>I had that in my head. How crazy we must

0:38:46.960 --> 0:38:49.720
<v Speaker 1>be connected. I didn't realize that you had been humming

0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:53.879
<v Speaker 1>it earlier, and beneath my awareness I picked it up.

0:38:54.440 --> 0:38:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Although once I became aware that you were humming it,

0:38:57.600 --> 0:39:00.879
<v Speaker 1>it seemed to me like I had well.

0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that ties into another explanation is that people

0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:06.680
<v Speaker 2>who do seem to have that gift are just really,

0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:11.160
<v Speaker 2>really hyper observant on minute details. Like the same people

0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:14.800
<v Speaker 2>that can pick up on micro expressions. They might feel

0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:17.000
<v Speaker 2>like they have the gift because they're just really in

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:19.920
<v Speaker 2>tune to what's going on around them or not just

0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:22.040
<v Speaker 2>like a big lunkhead walking around.

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:26.040
<v Speaker 1>So a lot of people who believe in ESP say, yes,

0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:30.319
<v Speaker 1>we agree with that, especially parapsychology researchers, and there are

0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:32.960
<v Speaker 1>still plenty of respected ones out there. There's a guy

0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:34.480
<v Speaker 1>named Darryl Bem.

0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw that thing you sent. He's been doing

0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:38.200
<v Speaker 2>this for a while now.

0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, legitimately we should talk about him. But to button

0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:47.200
<v Speaker 1>up that point, there is a lot of parapsychologists or

0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:51.360
<v Speaker 1>even just plain old psychologists who are researching ESP, yeah,

0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:57.200
<v Speaker 1>who say, yes, that definitely most likely accounts for almost

0:39:57.239 --> 0:39:59.480
<v Speaker 1>all of it, and that's good for us to be

0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:01.520
<v Speaker 1>thinking about that, and that in and of it self

0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:06.000
<v Speaker 1>deserves like academic inquiry and research. Right. Yeah, But there

0:40:06.040 --> 0:40:09.279
<v Speaker 1>are still some experience experiments that are being produced by

0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:14.320
<v Speaker 1>guys like Daryl Bem that are showing some weird results

0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:16.239
<v Speaker 1>that go beyond this kind of explanation.

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And one of the problems, well, we'll talk about

0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:22.879
<v Speaker 2>the problems with even this research about it being reproducible

0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:25.400
<v Speaker 2>in a second. But he did a couple of experiments.

0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:26.560
<v Speaker 2>This is from NPR.

0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Akroll which wrote this. Oh really, yeah, from from from

0:40:30.680 --> 0:40:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Radio Lab.

0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Nice. I didn't know that these are the two that

0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:38.080
<v Speaker 2>he pointed out. He did nine different experiments, but the

0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:41.200
<v Speaker 2>two that he highlighted was at Cornell, which is where

0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.879
<v Speaker 2>bim is A does his work, right.

0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he's again a very respected psychologist. And this study,

0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:52.040
<v Speaker 1>that of these experiments was published in the Journal of

0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Personality and Social Psychology, which is a respected journal.

0:40:55.920 --> 0:40:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So they The first one was a computer quiz.

0:40:59.160 --> 0:41:02.360
<v Speaker 2>They took a hundred student it's fifty males and fifty women,

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:07.960
<v Speaker 2>and basically they showed a computer screen with two little

0:41:07.960 --> 0:41:10.279
<v Speaker 2>curtains on it, side by side and said behind one

0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 2>is nothing a brick wall, and behind the other is

0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:19.440
<v Speaker 2>something sexy. Yeah, some kind of you know, I was

0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:22.120
<v Speaker 2>about to call it pornographic, but who knows. Maybe it's

0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:25.840
<v Speaker 2>art nakednessism.

0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, gross, This just make you feel like your dad

0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:31.719
<v Speaker 1>saying it or something.

0:41:31.800 --> 0:41:33.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, this room's too small for you to say.

0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:40.000
<v Speaker 2>So basically he would say, you tell me what you

0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:42.320
<v Speaker 2>think you're going to see, and they were all hooked

0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:44.960
<v Speaker 2>up two machines to read the you know, they're what's

0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:48.239
<v Speaker 2>going on in their body, of course, and you would

0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:50.040
<v Speaker 2>think it would be a fifty to fifty result, but

0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:54.080
<v Speaker 2>they actually got a fifty three point one percent result

0:41:54.200 --> 0:42:02.440
<v Speaker 2>for the what uh Crawlwitch calls erotic stimuli. And basically

0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:07.080
<v Speaker 2>they they think, or at least that's what Bem thinks,

0:42:07.160 --> 0:42:10.399
<v Speaker 2>is that one possibility is that if there is if

0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:14.120
<v Speaker 2>they think they're going to see something erotically stimulating, then

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:17.240
<v Speaker 2>it got passed back through time.

0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's kind of his position, is that retrocognition thing. Yeah,

0:42:21.680 --> 0:42:25.520
<v Speaker 1>that they somehow their future selves who saw the erotic

0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:30.480
<v Speaker 1>image was stimulated enough that that stimulation traveled backwards three

0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:32.839
<v Speaker 1>seconds and influenced their choice.

0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Because they were they would be slightly stimulated physiologically right

0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:40.080
<v Speaker 2>before they guess. And he said, before the computer even

0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:42.640
<v Speaker 2>chose which which one to.

0:42:42.600 --> 0:42:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Show, right, they right, they were making their choices often correct,

0:42:47.400 --> 0:42:50.480
<v Speaker 1>before the computer chose to show an erotic or non

0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:53.719
<v Speaker 1>erotic image. And fifty three percent it doesn't sound like much,

0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:56.440
<v Speaker 1>but Krolwitch points out a couple of things. One that

0:42:56.880 --> 0:43:00.480
<v Speaker 1>when there was a control group that was shown non

0:43:00.520 --> 0:43:04.040
<v Speaker 1>eurotic pictures. Yeah, they did forty nine point eight percent correct,

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:05.080
<v Speaker 1>which is chance.

0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:08.040
<v Speaker 2>And they're fifty to fifty and they're all not happy, right,

0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 2>They're like, I don't want to be the control.

0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:11.799
<v Speaker 1>They're like, can we get a little steamier in here?

0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:16.480
<v Speaker 1>But and he also pointed out that fifty three fifty

0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:19.799
<v Speaker 1>three point one, to be specific, doesn't sound like much,

0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:28.400
<v Speaker 1>but apparently that's a point two percent chance where on

0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:32.239
<v Speaker 1>a scale between zero and one, where zero is it's

0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:35.480
<v Speaker 1>not going to happen, and one is that it's definitely

0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:40.080
<v Speaker 1>gonna happen. Yeah, And apparently, as far as correlation goes,

0:43:40.200 --> 0:43:44.240
<v Speaker 1>or links between two things something affecting another, a point

0:43:44.320 --> 0:43:48.360
<v Speaker 1>two is about the same as the link between aspirin

0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:52.759
<v Speaker 1>and heart attack prevention, the link between calcium intake and

0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:56.560
<v Speaker 1>bone mass, the link between secondhand smoke and lung cancer.

0:43:56.719 --> 0:43:59.719
<v Speaker 2>So things that are touted is like, pay attention to.

0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:03.840
<v Speaker 1>This, yesh, yeah, yeah exactly. So stuff that we accept

0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:06.240
<v Speaker 1>is like, yeah, yeah, if you're around second and smoke,

0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.000
<v Speaker 1>you can get cancer from that. This is probably has

0:44:09.040 --> 0:44:12.719
<v Speaker 1>the same exactly, yeah it is. And later on a

0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:17.239
<v Speaker 1>meta analysis of Bem's experiments, some other experiments that were

0:44:17.280 --> 0:44:20.240
<v Speaker 1>carried out afterward, and then some other experiments all grouped

0:44:20.239 --> 0:44:27.600
<v Speaker 1>together a meta analysis showed that they weren't. It wasn't

0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:30.800
<v Speaker 1>statistically significant if you took all of the existing body

0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:34.560
<v Speaker 1>of literature of these experiments. But it was a New

0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Scientist article and it was pretty cool. In the comment section,

0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:44.560
<v Speaker 1>somebody said, yeah, it's not reproducible, but a lot of

0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:47.480
<v Speaker 1>science isn't reproducible, And it reminded me of our scientific

0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:52.520
<v Speaker 1>method episode, Yeah, where like apparently a lot of trials

0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.600
<v Speaker 1>that like pharmaceuticals are based on aren't reproducible. Wasn't it

0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:57.640
<v Speaker 1>like fifty percent of them?

0:44:57.840 --> 0:44:59.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which doesn't surprise me of course.

0:44:59.520 --> 0:44:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:02.040
<v Speaker 2>All right, And then there was this other experiment that

0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:04.400
<v Speaker 2>I need you to explain to me because I didn't

0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.200
<v Speaker 2>understand it. Okay, you're ready, Like I got the first part,

0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:09.480
<v Speaker 2>but I didn't. It didn't make sense to.

0:45:09.440 --> 0:45:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Me because it's a little mind blowing.

0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:45:11.520 --> 0:45:15.279
<v Speaker 1>So you know how like if you are studying something, sure,

0:45:15.320 --> 0:45:17.640
<v Speaker 1>and you write it down, Yes, it gets in your

0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:18.440
<v Speaker 1>brain a little more.

0:45:18.520 --> 0:45:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that when you're tested on it later, you

0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:23.680
<v Speaker 1>will recall it more easily.

0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a common study method. Write something down okay.

0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:30.000
<v Speaker 1>So Bem carried out a very simple experiment that did

0:45:30.000 --> 0:45:33.000
<v Speaker 1>the opposite of that. First, he showed some people a

0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 1>bunch of a bunch of words, forty eight random words

0:45:36.840 --> 0:45:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I think noun's like tree or something like that.

0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he told them to visualize it though, right.

0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Right, So they saw all forty eight words and thought about.

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:46.399
<v Speaker 2>Them, not visualized the letters, but visualized the thing, right,

0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:47.440
<v Speaker 2>like see the tree and.

0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:50.520
<v Speaker 1>You're yeah, just just to kind of try to memorize

0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:51.440
<v Speaker 1>all forty eight words.

0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Then the computer randomly selected twenty four of those words,

0:45:56.800 --> 0:46:00.200
<v Speaker 1>and then after they'd done that, Bem gave them a

0:46:00.280 --> 0:46:04.360
<v Speaker 1>test of recall to see how many they recalled, right, Yes,

0:46:04.840 --> 0:46:09.040
<v Speaker 1>So the people had to type out the words they recalled.

0:46:09.680 --> 0:46:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Then after that, the computer randomly selected twenty four of

0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the forty eight words for the people to type after

0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:22.280
<v Speaker 1>they'd already taken the test of recall. And those twenty

0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:26.439
<v Speaker 1>four words are the ones that people more consistently got

0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:28.200
<v Speaker 1>right on the earlier tests.

0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:29.959
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, So.

0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:35.520
<v Speaker 1>It's another example of that retrocognition that these people getting

0:46:35.560 --> 0:46:38.160
<v Speaker 1>the words in their heads after the test somehow went

0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:42.759
<v Speaker 1>backward and influenced their recall and memory. Gocha for the

0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:46.240
<v Speaker 1>test that they took before they learned them.

0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 2>That makes more sense a little. Yeah, it is a little,

0:46:49.680 --> 0:46:52.040
<v Speaker 2>but see time travel melts my brain too. Right.

0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:54.719
<v Speaker 1>So this guy published this stuff in like twenty ten,

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:57.960
<v Speaker 1>and like it was, it made a huge, huge splash,

0:46:58.160 --> 0:47:02.480
<v Speaker 1>huge criticism. The Act Demic Journal was criticized and bem

0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:05.080
<v Speaker 1>was you know, pillar eat and all that. But he's

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:10.320
<v Speaker 1>still you know, put out these these very reproducible, understandable,

0:47:10.480 --> 0:47:15.200
<v Speaker 1>simple exercises that still showed statistically speaking, there were some

0:47:15.239 --> 0:47:17.360
<v Speaker 1>significant results that went beyond chance.

0:47:17.800 --> 0:47:21.480
<v Speaker 2>So when it comes to debunking ESP one thing that

0:47:21.560 --> 0:47:24.000
<v Speaker 2>you're not gonna you know, you said fraud, You're not

0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:28.640
<v Speaker 2>going to see a lot of people call researchers outright

0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:31.720
<v Speaker 2>frauds because that's just sort of a dangerous thing to say. Sure,

0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:35.239
<v Speaker 2>it's not nice, but there are people out there who

0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:39.319
<v Speaker 2>I guess are criticized for, you know, basically trying to

0:47:39.360 --> 0:47:43.080
<v Speaker 2>call out and this is something completely different. But these

0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:44.920
<v Speaker 2>these on stage psychic.

0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Shows like crossing Over with John Edwards.

0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like it's easy to pick those people out and

0:47:50.239 --> 0:47:52.560
<v Speaker 2>say you're a big fraud and this is not true

0:47:52.560 --> 0:47:55.719
<v Speaker 2>of course, and all you're doing is cold reading. Cold

0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:59.680
<v Speaker 2>reading we talked about in the Animal Pet Psychics episode, Right,

0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:02.799
<v Speaker 2>that's basically when you get up on stage and you say, sir,

0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:08.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm sensing someone there. You're having some trouble with another

0:48:08.200 --> 0:48:12.560
<v Speaker 2>man in your life with a name of j or

0:48:12.960 --> 0:48:16.080
<v Speaker 2>or is it h or O P or maybe it's P.

0:48:16.440 --> 0:48:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes P, my boss Peter. Yes, yes, exactly. And that's

0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:22.759
<v Speaker 2>all a could reading is. It's throwing out these really

0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:25.640
<v Speaker 2>broad things that anyone can latch onto. So it's really

0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:29.320
<v Speaker 2>easy to call those people out. And there's a guy,

0:48:30.000 --> 0:48:32.439
<v Speaker 2>sort of a guy famous for doing that. His name

0:48:32.520 --> 0:48:36.080
<v Speaker 2>is James Randy, and he's famous for his offer of

0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:41.080
<v Speaker 2>one million dollars to anyone that can prove their psychic ability,

0:48:41.520 --> 0:48:43.279
<v Speaker 2>which of course no one stepped up to do that.

0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:46.080
<v Speaker 2>But then he gets poop pooed a little bit, like

0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:51.440
<v Speaker 2>you're just making a mockery of trying to legitimately disprove something.

0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:54.680
<v Speaker 1>And mockery is absolutely the right word. Yeah, And to me,

0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:59.200
<v Speaker 1>the presence of mockery indicates the absence of objectivity.

0:48:59.560 --> 0:48:59.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:02.439
<v Speaker 1>So like what you're dealing with then, with a guy

0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:06.680
<v Speaker 1>like that, is a set of beliefs a belief system

0:49:06.760 --> 0:49:10.640
<v Speaker 1>running up against another belief system, just like a couple

0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:14.719
<v Speaker 1>of religions or something like that. It's not objectivity against

0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:18.400
<v Speaker 1>fraud or anything like that. It's belief against belief or something.

0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:23.879
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, the idea of lumping together John Edwards with

0:49:24.080 --> 0:49:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Darryl bem is just that's, you know, fraudulent in and

0:49:28.520 --> 0:49:29.200
<v Speaker 1>of itself.

0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's just they call that theatrics, just like the

0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:36.160
<v Speaker 2>on stage theatrics of a stage psychic. Yeah, so I

0:49:36.960 --> 0:49:37.600
<v Speaker 2>totally agree.

0:49:37.680 --> 0:49:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I do too. I think there's a

0:49:41.080 --> 0:49:45.120
<v Speaker 1>definite room for a healthy scientific inquiry into just about anything,

0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:48.040
<v Speaker 1>whether skeptics believe in it or not.

0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:51.839
<v Speaker 2>Sure, if you can get some funding for it, who cares.

0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:52.960
<v Speaker 2>That's my motto.

0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:59.759
<v Speaker 1>You got anything else on ESP, let me think. No,

0:50:00.200 --> 0:50:02.560
<v Speaker 1>I've got one more thing I found. I came across

0:50:02.600 --> 0:50:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen ninety i think five Nightline with Ted Copple, Yeah,

0:50:08.320 --> 0:50:11.880
<v Speaker 1>where the news broke that the CIA had been studying

0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:14.920
<v Speaker 1>ESP and trying to do remote viewing what Ronson was

0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:16.760
<v Speaker 1>talking about and the men who stare at goats?

0:50:16.760 --> 0:50:17.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, John.

0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:20.680
<v Speaker 1>When it finally became declassified in nineteen ninety five, Ted

0:50:20.719 --> 0:50:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Copple did like a twenty minute Nightline segment on it.

0:50:24.000 --> 0:50:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Totally worth watching. It's some pretty softball questions.

0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Robert Gates, who would later become the head of Defense. Yeah,

0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:35.720
<v Speaker 1>he's on there just basically trying as politely as possible

0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:38.640
<v Speaker 1>to show that he does not believe in any of this,

0:50:38.760 --> 0:50:42.439
<v Speaker 1>even though he was the Formacia director. And it's just neat.

0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Plus you get to watch Copple again, right, he was

0:50:45.680 --> 0:50:48.640
<v Speaker 2>great news man. Yeah, I miss those dudes. I miss

0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:51.280
<v Speaker 2>I was just thinking yesterday about Brokaw.

0:50:52.200 --> 0:50:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, rather I was.

0:50:54.080 --> 0:50:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I was always a Brokaw man.

0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Did you I liked Peter Jennings he was great.

0:50:58.640 --> 0:50:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:50:59.120 --> 0:51:00.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know all of them were great.

0:51:00.600 --> 0:51:03.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't even have any idea who does nightly news

0:51:03.000 --> 0:51:03.759
<v Speaker 2>now I don't watch it.

0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:06.359
<v Speaker 1>It was Brian Williams until about a day ago.

0:51:06.560 --> 0:51:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Did he get fired? He like got I know, the

0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:11.320
<v Speaker 2>whole kerfuffle, but he didn't get fired for it.

0:51:11.360 --> 0:51:14.799
<v Speaker 1>Did. I'm using my esp to predict that by the

0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:17.440
<v Speaker 1>time this came this comes out, who will not be

0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:21.280
<v Speaker 1>there anymore? Wow, I think this is getting big quick interesting.

0:51:21.680 --> 0:51:26.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Twitter's involved, man, the Twitter takedown.

0:51:26.320 --> 0:51:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Uh. If you want to know more about ESP.

0:51:30.160 --> 0:51:33.080
<v Speaker 1>The internet was virtually set up for you to go

0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:35.960
<v Speaker 1>find out more about it. You can start by typing

0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:38.719
<v Speaker 1>ESP in the search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com. Since

0:51:38.760 --> 0:51:40.759
<v Speaker 1>I said that it's time for listener mail.

0:51:42.000 --> 0:51:43.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, before we do listener mail, I just want to

0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:46.520
<v Speaker 2>give a quick shout out to my buddy Isaac McNairy.

0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:49.960
<v Speaker 2>If you remember, I did a Judge John Hodgman episode

0:51:49.960 --> 0:51:52.520
<v Speaker 2>with Emily in which I did a bad home renovation

0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:56.960
<v Speaker 2>and this dude stuff you should know. Listener from Kansas

0:51:57.239 --> 0:52:00.799
<v Speaker 2>carpenter Master Carpenter said hey, man, I'll come and stay

0:52:00.800 --> 0:52:03.480
<v Speaker 2>with you and help you do your your project there

0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.400
<v Speaker 2>right And I said this sounds crazy, and he actually

0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:10.759
<v Speaker 2>came and did it and it looks awesome and he's

0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:15.040
<v Speaker 2>a super cool guy. And if you're in Kansas near Eldoredo, Kansas,

0:52:15.320 --> 0:52:20.640
<v Speaker 2>there's no better guy to hire, El Dorados. It's El Daredo. Actually, Okay,

0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:22.920
<v Speaker 2>he has to point out, but not only is he

0:52:22.960 --> 0:52:24.719
<v Speaker 2>a great carpenter and a cool guy, but he works

0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:28.680
<v Speaker 2>with a nonprofit called Outreach Program And you can find

0:52:28.719 --> 0:52:32.360
<v Speaker 2>it an Outreach Program dot org where they're basically feeding

0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:36.480
<v Speaker 2>the world. They package food and they get people together

0:52:36.520 --> 0:52:39.640
<v Speaker 2>in a room and package these mass quantities of food

0:52:39.680 --> 0:52:43.640
<v Speaker 2>to send to other countries and feed the hungry. And

0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:46.120
<v Speaker 2>he's just a really good dude. So thanks to Isaac

0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:49.520
<v Speaker 2>for that. And my kitchen list is looking good. So

0:52:49.600 --> 0:52:52.960
<v Speaker 2>again for his nonprofit that is Outreach Program dot org.

0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:55.160
<v Speaker 2>And if you need a great carpenter and you're in Kansas,

0:52:55.520 --> 0:52:57.200
<v Speaker 2>check out retro Fit Remodeling.

0:52:57.520 --> 0:52:57.759
<v Speaker 1>Nice.

0:52:58.120 --> 0:53:03.600
<v Speaker 2>All right, listener mail to call this pronunciation help. Hey guys,

0:53:03.640 --> 0:53:05.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm a botanist and just wanted to throw throw you

0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:08.640
<v Speaker 2>a rope to help you out with pronouncing plant family names.

0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:12.400
<v Speaker 2>All plant family names end in A C.

0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:15.920
<v Speaker 1>E A E. Oh yeah, I thought I got that wrong.

0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:18.920
<v Speaker 2>It is a mess of vowels. Guys. When you read it,

0:53:18.920 --> 0:53:24.520
<v Speaker 2>you should just imagine you were spelling ace as in acee.

0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:28.000
<v Speaker 2>So when you read a plant family name, just break

0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:31.600
<v Speaker 2>off A the acee and read the first part and

0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:34.799
<v Speaker 2>then spell acee. So the plant family for poison oak

0:53:34.920 --> 0:53:41.360
<v Speaker 2>is Anacardia anacardi a ce. So it's just Anna cardi

0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:46.480
<v Speaker 2>a ce. I remember it by imagining the aneurysm and

0:53:46.880 --> 0:53:50.000
<v Speaker 2>cardiac arrest I would have if I fell into it

0:53:50.239 --> 0:53:55.560
<v Speaker 2>A N A C A R D I what well

0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:58.440
<v Speaker 2>she spelled out anna CARDI, Oh gotcha the first two

0:53:58.840 --> 0:54:01.560
<v Speaker 2>first letters from each of those words. Anyway, guys, I

0:54:01.600 --> 0:54:04.080
<v Speaker 2>love your podcast. Find it endearing when you two puzzle

0:54:04.120 --> 0:54:06.000
<v Speaker 2>out on pronunciations.

0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:07.839
<v Speaker 1>Ace A, see, that's good to know.

0:54:08.040 --> 0:54:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I love you, bunches and that is from Jane,

0:54:11.360 --> 0:54:14.120
<v Speaker 2>and she said ps. In Europe they pronounce plant families

0:54:14.160 --> 0:54:19.880
<v Speaker 2>completely differently other parts of see. Other parts of the

0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:22.640
<v Speaker 2>US might have other conventions, but the above pronunciation is

0:54:22.680 --> 0:54:24.240
<v Speaker 2>standard in California.

0:54:24.640 --> 0:54:33.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, okay, what ac ac If you want to

0:54:33.640 --> 0:54:36.280
<v Speaker 1>let us know something that we should have known before

0:54:36.320 --> 0:54:40.120
<v Speaker 1>we even recorded, but you're generous enough with your time

0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:43.040
<v Speaker 1>and effort to correct us, I guess there's a way

0:54:43.080 --> 0:54:45.799
<v Speaker 1>to put it. Sure we That was very helpful. Thanks

0:54:45.800 --> 0:54:47.479
<v Speaker 1>a lot, Jane. If you want to be like Jane

0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:49.640
<v Speaker 1>in other words, you can send us an email to

0:54:49.800 --> 0:54:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:54:55.640 --> 0:54:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:02.799
<v Speaker 2>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:04.720
<v Speaker 2>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.