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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Josh and for this week's select, I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our twenty fifteen episode on ESP. It's a really

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Speaker 1: good one. We talk about all sorts of things about ESP,

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Speaker 1: including the science, and I know what you're thinking. You're

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Speaker 1: thinking science and ESP. Yes, indeed, and that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that makes this episode so cool. So I

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Speaker 1: hope you will open your mind, tune in, turn on,

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Speaker 1: drop out, keep on trucking, and enjoy this episode.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there. I didn't

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Speaker 1: even have to look why, I just knew.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and dudes and dudets. We are in our new studio.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell its own different.

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Speaker 2: It's the very first one and it's tiny.

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Speaker 1: Wait what do you mean it's the very first one.

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Speaker 2: Very very first podcast that we've recorded in here.

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Speaker 1: Oh gotcha?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. I said tiny, but

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Speaker 2: it's not tiny. It's cozy, but it is all all ours, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: al ours.

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Speaker 1: Everybody else at House Stuff Works doesn't really know that yet,

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Speaker 1: but they will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Because when we actually have butt detection and when

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Speaker 2: someone sits down in these seats that aren't us to

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Speaker 2: get a shock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And plus an alarm goes off at our desks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's it called dmr TM? I how are you, sir?

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty good.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this is fancy. This is our first

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Speaker 2: real like studio. That's not true.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm trying to remember. The last one was.

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Speaker 2: No, but it's not a utility closet. It's not a

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Speaker 2: lactation room. It's not Yeah, it's not a murder room.

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Speaker 1: It's not like an office with like desk for like

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Speaker 1: office furniture. Yeah, it's a it's a studio that was

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Speaker 1: built out for the specific purpose of recording podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Yep. All we have to do is put up our

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Speaker 2: Aaron Cooper originals. The artwork, got a couple of those

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Speaker 2: waiting together, and we got to work on the lighting

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Speaker 2: in here a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Jerry's said she's gonna hang some china balls for us. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She keeps pushing the china balls.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, enough about that. We just wanted to say

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Speaker 2: we're super excited to be in our new office, in

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Speaker 2: our new studio.

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Speaker 1: It does feel good. Yeah, kudos for that intro. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to say that. I knew you were going

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Speaker 1: to say that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say that too.

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Speaker 1: I knew that you were thinking of saying that, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: Yes, ESP.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe in ESP?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: No, not at all. Do you what do you think

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Speaker 1: it is? Because surely, I mean, just about anyone could

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Speaker 1: agree that humans have some sort of ability somehow to

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Speaker 1: make good guesses or to predict the future, or whatever

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Speaker 1: you want to call it. Do you agree or do

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Speaker 1: you think it's strictly just us selectively paying attention to

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Speaker 1: random instances over others.

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Speaker 2: I think it's that, and as we'll talk about, I

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Speaker 2: think it's the just the nature of coincidence is going

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Speaker 2: to happen because so many things happen every day that

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Speaker 2: something is bound to seem like something you dreamed about

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Speaker 2: the night before at some point in your life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the other millions of dreams you have that, don't

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Speaker 2: I think those are the ones that are the the

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Speaker 2: tell you know? Do you?

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Speaker 1: I don't know? Like I want to. I spent so

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Speaker 1: many years of my life believing in stuff like that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and wanting to go to Duke University to study at

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Speaker 1: their parapsychology department. Did you really believe? Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: believing in ghosts and all this and just that's how

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Speaker 1: I spent my childhood just reading about stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Very so Ghostbusters really did a number on you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. When that came along, I was like

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Speaker 1: this for me, Yeah, but as an adult, it's not

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Speaker 1: so much that I believe in ESP. It's more that

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Speaker 1: I I refuse to just utterly disbelieve in the possibility

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Speaker 1: of it. Sure, okay, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got you there, because we don't know everything

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Speaker 2: about everything yet, right, but uh yeah, I'm in the

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Speaker 2: I'm the other camp. And I'm not even gonna say

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Speaker 2: the sceptic camp because those people just plug me.

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Speaker 1: Has a bad name, some due to some bad apples.

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Speaker 1: Not all skeptics, No, but there are some that are

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Speaker 1: horses asses. Can we say that?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll find out, all right, Well, let's

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Speaker 2: talk about And I thought this was interesting because I

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Speaker 2: never knew that ESP is just a big collective term

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Speaker 2: for all manner of par paranormal phenomena. You could also

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Speaker 2: call PSI.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so a dude named jb Ryan who will

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Speaker 1: talk about later.

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Speaker 2: He coined ESP the Granddaddy.

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Speaker 1: And then in the forties another guy coined the term

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Speaker 1: PSI and PSI is a Greek letter and it's equated

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Speaker 1: with psyche or the soul ps i. And the reason

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Speaker 1: that the guy chose PI is because he felt ESP

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Speaker 1: suggested it was something supernatural. Yeah, sure, and SI he

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Speaker 1: felt suggested that this is a normal part of humanity.

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Speaker 1: We just don't understand it.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like science, right. But there are several categories

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Speaker 2: of ESP, and this is the one that I never

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Speaker 2: knew the actual definitions for these. I sort of just

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Speaker 2: threw them all in a bag together. You have telepathy,

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Speaker 2: and that's when you can you know, you're over there

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Speaker 2: reading my thoughts. Yes, like Chuck is really not happy

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Speaker 2: to be in the new studio.

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Speaker 1: That's not true.

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Speaker 2: He'd rather be at home on the couch.

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Speaker 1: I'm reading your thoughts right now, and I know that

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Speaker 1: you like this place.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, you're a telep right. Clairvoyance, which is the

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Speaker 2: ability to see events or things objects happening somewhere else

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Speaker 2: at the same time. So are you doing are you clairvoyant?

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Speaker 1: I am. I'm seeing your couch right now and I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing it's not that comfy. Yeah, so you're not missing

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Speaker 1: that much at the moment.

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Speaker 2: I know somewhere Jonathan Strickland is waxing his head, bald head.

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Speaker 1: That's just a logical assumption.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Then we have our pre cogs precognition, that's when

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Speaker 2: you see into the future, retrocogs retro cognition. You can

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Speaker 2: see into the distant past.

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Speaker 1: That's there's another that's a widely accepted definition of retrocognition. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like seeing you know, cave like TikTok running around with

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Speaker 1: the dinosaurs like you do, which I guess never would

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Speaker 1: have happened. Yeah, But there's another term for retrocognition, whereas

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Speaker 1: something in the future affects something in the past. So

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Speaker 1: a decision you make in the future, yeah, affects your past.

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Speaker 1: And an example given is that you have a dream

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Speaker 1: about a dinosaur. Now, let's say a spotted dog, okay,

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Speaker 1: and then the first thing the next morning, you go

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Speaker 1: outside to water your lawn and this same spotted dog

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Speaker 1: or a similar spotted dog walks by. The idea isn't

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Speaker 1: that that was very coincidental or that you had esp

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Speaker 1: in your dreams, Yeah, but that you seeing that dog

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Speaker 1: in the morning affected your dream the night before. Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's another definition that's emerging for retrocognition. That's getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of traction because of the stuff we're finding

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Speaker 1: on the quantum scale, just weirdness like that.

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Speaker 2: All right. Then you have your mediumship and that's miss

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Speaker 2: Cleo who can channel dead spirits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I forgot about her.

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Speaker 2: And then you heard.

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Speaker 1: How much money that woman grossed in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: She made a lot of dough, I hope. So yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean she was working hard. She had a finite window

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Speaker 1: of opportunity, and she worked that whole time. She didn't

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Speaker 1: like buy a sailboat and sail around the world after

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Speaker 1: like first million. You know, like she worked.

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Speaker 2: So you're not in the camp of like she's taking

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Speaker 2: people's money and taking advantage of people.

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Speaker 1: I see that argument, sure, for sure. I also see

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Speaker 1: like if people want to spend their money on that

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Speaker 1: and they get something out of it, knock yourself out.

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Speaker 2: All right. And then you have a psychometry, which is

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Speaker 2: the ability to read info about a person place by

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Speaker 2: touching the person no object. And that's what I like

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Speaker 2: to call the dead zone. Right, Christopher Walkin, he would

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Speaker 2: place his hands on you and he would see something.

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Speaker 1: Man. I think we talked about it recently about how

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Speaker 1: that movie holds up. Still. Yeah, that is such a

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Speaker 1: good movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is good, Chris Walkin.

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Speaker 1: There's another one, Chuck called telekinesis, which is like Uri

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Speaker 1: Geller stroking a spoon in it bending right, like being

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Speaker 1: able to manipulate matter just using a light touch of

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Speaker 1: your mind.

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Speaker 2: But there is no spoon. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't that from Matrix?

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Speaker 2: All right? So basically, like you said, jb Ryan is

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Speaker 2: the granddaddy of all this, and he actually started studying.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he was a legitimate scientist. He wasn't some quack.

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Speaker 2: And this was in the nineteen thirties where he started

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Speaker 2: at Duke University studying para parapsychology basically.

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Speaker 1: And he wasn't the first. He was one of the

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Speaker 1: first laboratory experimenters in academia to really study SAI. Right

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Speaker 1: before him, probably about forty or so years before him,

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Speaker 1: William James and some of his pals at the Society

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Speaker 1: for Psychical Research really laid the groundwork for applying the

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Speaker 1: scientific method to the study of paranormal phenomenonah, and they

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Speaker 1: did two things. They outed frauds, like fraudulent mediums, like

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Speaker 1: very famously Madame Bleovartsky. But then they also investigated ones

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Speaker 1: like the reach them typically with like an open mind. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and if they found somebody that they just couldn't explain,

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Speaker 1: they would they studied them. So they were they were

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Speaker 1: studying each one with an open mind. And the ones

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Speaker 1: they figured out were frauds they outed as frauds. The

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Speaker 1: ones they figured out it couldn't quite explain. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: sought to investigate scientifically rather than just saying, oh, they're

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Speaker 1: frauds somehow, right, So that was the groundwork of the

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Speaker 1: study of cy.

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Speaker 2: What was Madame Blevartsky Steele of the Cony?

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Speaker 1: She was she actually she was almost a cult leader,

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Speaker 1: you could argue she was. She she created Oh man,

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Speaker 1: it's called like theodism, I think, huh, which is it was?

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Speaker 1: It was almost a cult. It was a huge movement

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Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century where like you go to like

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Speaker 1: a seance and there was a medium there and they

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Speaker 1: would channel like the spirits of the dead relatives of

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Speaker 1: people who were there, holding hands in the circle and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. And she gained a lot of power

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Speaker 1: and wealth and prestige until she was outed as a fraud.

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Speaker 1: And I don't remember the the it's theosophy, that's what

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Speaker 1: it is. Theoism. Theoism has to do with theo Huxtable.

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Speaker 2: Did you see The Source Family, by the way, that documentary. No,

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Speaker 2: I haven't about the La cult in the seventies.

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Speaker 1: I saw the icon on Netflix and never clicked as a.

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Speaker 2: Good it's really good and it's it's awesome. Actually, I

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Speaker 2: recommend everyone see. It's one of those where they interview

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Speaker 2: a lot of them today and they weren't like, you know,

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Speaker 2: they didn't commit suicide like everyone was like, it was

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Speaker 2: pretty great.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: They're all fine. They're all just a bunch of hippies.

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Speaker 2: Still they were out in La Yeah, yeah, right in Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: There was one in There was a documentary I saw

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Speaker 1: about a cult in Miami and they were like super

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Speaker 1: fundamentalist Christian but they also were the basis of their

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Speaker 1: religion was formed on pot too.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what the Source Family was.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if they were related.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was the seventies. Yeah, there were a lot

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Speaker 2: of pot cults, I bet.

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Speaker 1: But did they turn into like huge pot dealers.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think so this cult did. They had

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Speaker 2: a band though, and.

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Speaker 1: The called the Source M.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can't remember the name of the band,

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Speaker 2: but it's pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: To Manhattan Transfer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was. It's a really good documentary that it's

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Speaker 2: just funny to see how these people now they're like,

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Speaker 2: it was awesome. Yeah, I had a lot of sex

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Speaker 2: and smoked a lot of weed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of what got hurt too. They these

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Speaker 1: guys didn't seem to have a lot of sex though.

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Speaker 1: They were like real like compartmentalized gender wise, like male

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Speaker 1: dominance and all that. But they just smoked a ton

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Speaker 1: of pot all the time, including their little kids. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: that's not good, like like four year old smoking.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's terrible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in the documentary. It's worse seeing I

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Speaker 1: don't remember what you.

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Speaker 2: Had me up. You lost me there.

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Speaker 1: I lost everybody there in that documentary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. All right, So back to this ESP thing. Jb

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Speaker 2: Ryan Yeah, jb Ryan, Well, basically, there's a there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of different outlooks on what ESP might be. Some

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Speaker 2: people think that everyone's got it, but some people it

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Speaker 2: just pops up every now and then, like I might

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Speaker 2: have a dream that comes true or whatever. Other people

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Speaker 2: think that only certain people have it, they have the

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Speaker 2: gift as they say, uh, and that they have to

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Speaker 2: be in this special like you know, mental state to

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Speaker 2: access it the shinn, yeah, the shinning. And then other

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Speaker 2: folks say that everyone has that potential, but some people

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Speaker 2: are just like in tune with it, and some people aren't.

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Speaker 1: Right, and you fall into none of those three camp Yes,

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Speaker 1: So we'll talk a little more about some ideas of

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Speaker 1: what ESP is right after this. So, Chuck, you said

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Speaker 1: that basically how people see ESP is either everyone has it,

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Speaker 1: some people have it, or no one has it. Basically,

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Speaker 1: whether you're a skeptic or a believer. If you are

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Speaker 1: a believer in ESP and somebody comes to you and says, okay,

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Speaker 1: explain ESP, like what is it, there's actually a couple

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Speaker 1: of very common suggestions or proposals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One made sense for a while before we knew a

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Speaker 1: little more about the brain, and that was that ESP

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Speaker 1: was some form or fashion of the electromagnetic spectrum that

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Speaker 1: we were receiving information from outside of our usual senses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like you said, it fell out of favor

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Speaker 2: because basically it didn't explain anything about how it moves

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Speaker 2: through time or there. It didn't pick up on some

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Speaker 2: special part of your brain that receives this message.

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Speaker 1: And there was a did you see that study I

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Speaker 1: sent you? That was I think from twenty ten where

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Speaker 1: they put people in an MRI and then showed them

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Speaker 1: different pictures or whatever, and they did they showed like,

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Speaker 1: I put you in the Wonder machine and now I'm

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Speaker 1: showing you a picture of the flower and that's it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's lovely, except it sounds like a German rave.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit. But that would be the non

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Speaker 1: ESP stimuli the control group to test ESP and to

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Speaker 1: see if the brain reacted differently, and then to see

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Speaker 1: if there was a part of the brain that's picking

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Speaker 1: up on ESP, I would show you the flower, and

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Speaker 1: then in the other room, I would also show Emily

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Speaker 1: that flower, I think about it and send you the

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Speaker 1: thought of that flower. So you're getting ESP stimuli and

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Speaker 1: then non ESP stimuli. And from the MRI they showed

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Speaker 1: that the brain didn't react differently.

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Speaker 2: Gotcha.

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Speaker 1: So it suggests that there isn't a sensory organ or

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Speaker 1: region of the brain that's responsible for picking up ESP,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't debunk the possibility of ESP. It just undermines

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Speaker 1: the idea that there's a region of our brain that

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Speaker 1: would be responsible for picking that up.

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Speaker 2: Plus, I Emily's over there, My first guess is gonna

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Speaker 2: be dog every time, and it's flower.

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Speaker 1: And then well, it wasn't about guessing. It was just

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Speaker 1: to see, like showing you the ESP version, right, and

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Speaker 1: then the non ESP version of the same thing. So

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Speaker 1: you weren't guessing, do you understand?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it. No, I would have guessed dog

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Speaker 2: or wine.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't guessing, That's what I guessed.

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Speaker 2: Emily thinks she has a gift a little bit, so

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Speaker 2: she would have been disappointed. She's got the shin Yeah,

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Speaker 2: a little, she thinks. Yeah, But I think she is

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Speaker 2: just super observant and intuitive.

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Speaker 1: But that's definitely one explanation for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which we'll get to of course. So these days

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Speaker 2: there are other theories, one of which is that it's

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Speaker 2: called spillover, that there's basically another dimension that that doesn't

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Speaker 2: you know, have our laws here and our dimension, and

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Speaker 2: that sometimes stuff just sort of spills over from that

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Speaker 2: and we see the future or the past.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you're a skeptic, you probably just pull

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Speaker 1: the decent size clump of your hair out of the

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Speaker 1: side of your head at that point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because this is something you can't prove obviously, it's

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Speaker 2: like completely and of course they'll say it exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I got the impression from this

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Speaker 1: article that they were making that point, like science is

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Speaker 1: just chasing its tail and trying to explain ESP because

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Speaker 1: it's not currently capable and science goes doesn't work like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, at least with the electromagnetic spectrum explanation, it

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Speaker 1: was pointing to something that we already know exists, right,

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Speaker 1: It's just that there's no way to show that we

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Speaker 1: would be getting how we would be getting information from it,

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Speaker 1: because that electromagnetic explanation, Yeah, it basically says if you

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Speaker 1: compare it to other findings from ESP, it makes even

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Speaker 1: less sense. Right, Because with ESP, one of the hallmarks

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Speaker 1: of it is that no matter whether you're out there

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Speaker 1: outside of the studio thinking about wine or a dog

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Speaker 1: or something and I'm picking up on it, or if

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Speaker 1: you're in China and I'm here and we're doing the

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Speaker 1: same thing, the signal doesn't weaken at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that just flies in the face of all

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Speaker 2: we know about electromagnetic.

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Speaker 1: Rights exactly, no good, right, So there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: things wrong with the proposals of what ESP is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, the reason why still people still

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Speaker 2: believe in this stuff is because of either hearing a

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Speaker 2: story about their friend who said, you know, listen to

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Speaker 2: this crazy thing happened, or experiencing it themselves in some

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Speaker 2: way or another, having a dream that something similar happened,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden you're like, I might at

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Speaker 2: the gift exactly where it popped up in me, you know,

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Speaker 2: briefly at least.

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Speaker 1: And there's a I mean, there's a lot of evidence

359
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:27,919
Speaker 1: of a strange and unusual occurrences, sure that support the

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Speaker 1: idea of ESP.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This article gives a really good one about an eighteen

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Speaker 1: ninety eight book called Futility.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was.

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Speaker 1: Written by a guy named Morgan Robertson right, And in

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Speaker 1: it the guy details this book or this boat called.

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Speaker 2: The titan Ship.

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00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 1: Yeah ship, the boat a big old boat, yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is sailing across the Atlantic and hits an iceberg at

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Speaker 1: night and sinks and a bunch of people die because

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Speaker 1: they weren't enough lifeboats.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is eighteen ninety eight and if that sounds familiar.

374
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Speaker 1: The Titanic did the same exact thing, the Titanic, not

375
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Speaker 1: the titan Yeah, did the same exact thing fourteen years later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if there are a bunch of similarities. The titan

377
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Speaker 2: struck an iceberg in the book on the starboard side

378
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Speaker 2: on an April night in the North Atlantic, off the

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Speaker 2: coast of Newfoundland, and the real Titanic struck an iceberg

380
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Speaker 2: on the starboard side in April in the North Atlantic,

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Speaker 2: off the coast of Newfoundland.

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Speaker 1: And the starless night.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about that, Okay. They were both said

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Speaker 2: to be unsinkable. More than half of the passengers of

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Speaker 2: the Titanic perished, and more than half of the passengers

386
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Speaker 2: and crew on the titan perished. So there's all these

387
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: things in there. But you do a little more digging

388
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Speaker 2: and you find out that Robertson was he was a seaman,

389
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Speaker 2: and he knew a bunch of this stuff. And it's

390
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,399
Speaker 2: not unreasonable to think at the time they wanted to

391
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Speaker 2: build the biggest ships, and the word titan would be

392
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 2: a great name back then for a super big ship, right,

393
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Speaker 2: And that sailing route was a common one, and there

394
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Speaker 2: were icebergs and April might have been a common month

395
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 2: for that kind of voyage, so all of it can

396
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 2: be explained away kind of. But it is definitely something

397
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Speaker 2: you look at and go, oh interesting.

398
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Speaker 1: It is interesting and it's amazing coincidence, and it focuses

399
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: the attention and captures the imagination. But then, yeah, once

400
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: you hear about Robertson's background, it becomes slightly less impressive.

401
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: So then kind of too over the years that little

402
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: Colonel got erased and added to it was that this

403
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 1: idea for this book came to him in a trance,

404
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: which bolsters the.

405
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Speaker 2: Esp th Yeah, is that true or is that just

406
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 2: been added?

407
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was added over the years, Okay. Which

408
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: is a big problem with this kind of anecdotal evidence

409
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: is that you know, it gets embellished in urban Yeah, exactly.

410
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: And it's just it's not enough that this is a

411
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: really interesting, unique circumstance or coincidence or whatever. There has

412
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: to be this extra layer of proof, like it came

413
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: to him in a trance.

414
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 2: Come on. Yeah. So back to Ryan, he did some

415
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: like I said, in the nineteen thirties, he started studying

416
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 2: the stuff with one of my favorite inventions by his

417
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: colleague Carl Zenner. Of course, if you've seen Ghostbusters he

418
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: was using. He was using a version of Zenner cards.

419
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: The shapes weren't all exactly. I think there was one

420
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: that was different in Ghostbusters, but the original Xenner cards were.

421
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 2: It was a deck of twenty five plane white cards,

422
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: with each of them had one of five symbols a circle,

423
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: a plus sign, a square, a star, five pointed star,

424
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 2: and the three wavy lines.

425
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: Like water a river?

426
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Speaker 2: Is that what that is?

427
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: Maybe?

428
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: Okay? And the idea is that, just like in Ghostbusters,

429
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: you hold it up and asked the you know, not

430
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: showing them the card at obviously not the symbol, and

431
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: say what do you see? And they say what they see?

432
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Speaker 2: And then you record after the deck how many they.

433
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: Got right, right, But the person holding the card is

434
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: supposed to be thinking about what they're seeing, sure, so

435
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: that the other person, the target, the receiver, can pick

436
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: it up telepathically.

437
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did they have these online. I took

438
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Speaker 2: the test yesterday and I went through the twenty five

439
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: deck and I only got six out of twenty five.

440
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: And at the end it just said you are not

441
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 2: a psychic.

442
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: Oh really?

443
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was kind of funny.

444
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,479
Speaker 1: Statistically speaking, for just one trial that is more than chance.

445
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: You did better than chance. So maybe you do have

446
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: a touch.

447
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: Six of what would chance be?

448
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: I guess chance would be if there's five different ones.

449
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: To be twenty percent, and so this was six of

450
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: twenty four would be it? No, that's less.

451
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, you did six of twenty four. So you

452
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: did twenty four or twenty five twenty five, so five

453
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: of twenty five would be chance.

454
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 2: Okay, so I got one more? Yeah, well, and I

455
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: think like three of the first eight or so or

456
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: six I got And I was like.

457
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: Oh, I've got the gift, right, but I.

458
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 2: Didn't know, Like it's randomly generated, so it's not like

459
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: someone was on the other side thinking of that card.

460
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: So I literally I was like, what do I do?

461
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just guessing.

462
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: So that brings up some interesting stuff, like there's there's

463
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,239
Speaker 1: evidence that when a machine is involved, Yeah, there is

464
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: no telepathy. There would only be clairvoyance, right, yeah, So

465
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: I mean if telepathy is you picking up what's in

466
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: someone else's mind and a computer is mindless, then you

467
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: shouldn't be able what you were saying, like, you should

468
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: it shouldn't you should not be able to know what

469
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: zener card it's going to pick next, right, But there

470
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: have been investigations using computers and using machines that show

471
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: above chance, yeah, that there is some sort of weird interaction.

472
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: Like a random number generators.

473
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, So Princeton University has a department called the

474
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 1: Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Department PAIR, right, of course, and

475
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: Pair has been doing studies for a couple of decades.

476
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: They've done millions of trials and basically they'll say, this

477
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: is a random number generator or this this machine operates

478
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: randomly or whatever. We want you to think of a number,

479
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: and we want to see if you can influence the

480
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: numbers that this computer spits out.

481
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: Oh so you're thinking of the number, then the you're okay.

482
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: That makes like the human is trying to affect the computer,

483
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: the output the behavior of the computer. Of course, if

484
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: you're sitting across the room or in another room thinking

485
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: about a number that a random generator should put out,

486
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: it should have zero effect whatsoever.

487
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 2: It's a computer.

488
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: The weird thing is is what Princeton has found is

489
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: that yes, over enough trials, you there is a slight

490
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: very slight but measurable effect that human has on a

491
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: random number generator. Come on, it's on Princeton's website. And

492
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: this is stuff that like is apparently accepted in the

493
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: in the scientific community that the trials that they are

494
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: running are so widespread and so repeatable and have been

495
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: done so many times that the data that they're coming

496
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: up with is it's significant.

497
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 2: Well, Ryan with his inner card experiments in the thirties

498
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 2: did find that some people got what they thought were

499
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: pretty impressive results, like you know a few I can't

500
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: remember their names, but Hubert Pierce was he one of them.

501
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: He was the one how.

502
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: Many what was his percentage?

503
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: He had one where he got remember how you got

504
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: three in a row and you were like, oh my god, Yeah,

505
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: he got twenty five in a row once? What twenty five?

506
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: Come on, No, I'm not kidding. He was also documented

507
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: as selecting five hundred and fifty eight correct out of

508
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred and fifty which is the odds of that

509
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: happening by chain. Yeah, we're twenty two billion to one.

510
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 2: Now, were these the early experiments because okay, because I

511
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: did read that and this seems like I can't believe

512
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: he didn't check this, but apparently the early cards were

513
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: a little translucent. Oh really, yeah, some of them were.

514
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: And then he corrected for that and the and the

515
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: percentages went down. And then they, I know, other scientists

516
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: said that you are somehow influencing with your body tell right,

517
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: like you basically you don't have a good enough poker vase.

518
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. In the earliest Ryan experiments with the xener cards,

519
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: he would hold the card up and go and he'd

520
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: be making eye contacts right the guy. Yeah, The guesser

521
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: would be like, is it the wavy line? Yeah, he

522
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: started shaking his head almost in perseent, but he uh he.

523
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: That's called sensory leakage, where you the person who is

524
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: holding the card and knows who the card is. Yeah,

525
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: somehow there's some detail about your face that when you

526
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: do a thousand trials with somebody, yeah, they start to

527
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: pick up on and it affects their guests. It influences

528
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: their guests. So to correct for that, to control for

529
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: that sensory leakage, that cross, Yeah, they they came up

530
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: with something called the gans Field experiment.

531
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 2: Ah. Yes, as a German gunsfeld that means whole field

532
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: in German, and that is when they started putting people,

533
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: they would start depriving their other senses. Basically, right, they

534
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: would be in a like a dimly lit room with

535
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: red lighting, and they would have white noise, and they

536
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: would have their eyes covered with these special glasses.

537
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: Or ping pong balls cut in half like Kermit the Frog.

538
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: I guess later on they said, we should just make

539
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: some glasses.

540
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: Exactly, We've got the funding.

541
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: So basically the idea was, let's rule out any uh

542
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: any of that gross sensory leakage.

543
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, which he so apparently. Later on in Ryan's experiments,

544
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: after he started controlling for stuff, the percentages started to

545
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: drop of correct guesses. He was also he's generally a

546
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: respected researcher for a couple of reasons. One, whenever he

547
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: did whenever evidence of like some sort of bias or

548
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: fraud or something was brought to him, he corrected for it.

549
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wore glasses and a white coat, right.

550
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: That was another one. But also he was daring enough

551
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: to stake his entire career on a field of study

552
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: that will get anybody mocked publicly privately, can really shut

553
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: down a lot of opportunities for you. This guy and

554
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: his wife Louisa Ryan both dedicated their careers to establishing

555
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: the field of parapsychology and really studying it rather than

556
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: just walking away from it.

557
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he was like, I really want

558
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: to prove this is true?

559
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: Was he?

560
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: Yes, he did that.

561
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: That was a huge criticism of him. He got you

562
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: was a definite believer. He was quoted by I don't

563
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: know what the guy's steal was, but one day he

564
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: was visited by one person and the interviewer who went

565
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: on to write a paper I think in Scientific American

566
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: to expose him. He said he kept a file of

567
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: people of the results of tests where people he suspected

568
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: were purposefully getting things wrong because they didn't like him

569
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: to mess with his data. He just took those and

570
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: never published them. He didn't include him in the results,

571
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: which would definitely affect the number of correct hits.

572
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: Right.

573
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: That was a huge criticism. That's not good science at all.

574
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: But he was definitely a believer, which was another criticism.

575
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: But he was daring and he did. There was another

576
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: story where it's called the Levy affair, where a guy

577
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: named Levy, who was an electrical engineer working in the

578
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: lab unplugged I guess the sensor that would correct negative

579
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: hits for a little while during a trial, so that

580
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: all that were recorded for a little bit were positive hits,

581
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: and then he plugged it back in. Well, this one

582
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: guy saw what the guy was doing and went to Ryan,

583
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: and Ryan went to the guy Levy and said, did

584
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: you do this? And Levy said yes, he's like you're fired,

585
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: and just like threw the results away and all that.

586
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: So he wasn't like he was a true believer, but

587
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: he wasn't just some like outright fraud right right, But

588
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: he was and still is under the microscope as much

589
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: as probably any researcher in all of academia ever has been.

590
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: All right, Well, right after this break, we'll talk a

591
00:31:50,360 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: little bit about what skeptics say about ESB. All right, Josh.

592
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: One thing you'll hear skeptics say a lot is extraordinary

593
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: claims require extraordinary evidence. And I have to agree with them. Yeah,

594
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: And it is an extraordinary claim here, and so far

595
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: there hasn't been extraordinary evidence. And one of the things

596
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: I pointed to earlier that I think is what's going

597
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: on if you look at statistics, you look at six

598
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: billion people on planet Earth and them thinking a gazillion

599
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: things each day, and that is scientific, by the way, gazillion.

600
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: At some point somebody is going to think something that

601
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: mirrors something that happens in the near future, and it's

602
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: just chance and coincidence.

603
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: I have a great example of that, man. Okay, it

604
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: happened this very morning. What yeah, I did. I was

605
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: at the printer. You know, we just moved offices, and

606
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: I was at the printer and I had like an

607
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: extra pizza paper that I didn't need, and I realized, like,

608
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: we have no paper recycling here.

609
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: So on my way back yet that is everyone out

610
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: there is like, what kind of office would I.

611
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: Right, we just said we have a fifty five gallon

612
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: drum that we throw stuff into that it catches on fire.

613
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we send it out.

614
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: We have a burning drum, that's what it's called.

615
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: Now we're getting those soon.

616
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: Right, And we are getting them soon. I know this

617
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: because on my way back to my desk, I popped

618
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: into Izzy, the it guy who's also the head of

619
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: all recycling and stuff here. I was like, Izzy, we

620
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: need a paper recycling bins by the printer, and he goes,

621
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm writing an email right now to everybody about that

622
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: very thing.

623
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: You almost did your Izzy impression.

624
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was close, and so, like I thought about it,

625
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: that's pretty amazing. Yeah, you know, but it was about

626
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: nine in the morning, and this is a company wide email,

627
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: so it would be something that Izzy would probably knock

628
00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: out about that time.

629
00:33:59,680 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

630
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: The reason I was thinking of is because I was

631
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: just at the printer. We just moved into this office

632
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: and we didn't have bins yet, so it was still

633
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: a potential thing for somebody to be thinking about or

634
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: doing or writing an email about. And so there's all

635
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: these different, really overlooked variables or factors to this whole

636
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: thing that you don't think of. Instead, it just seems

637
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: like an amazing coincidence or ESP. To me, the really

638
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: significant thing was that I happened to be researching ESP

639
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: while this happened. That's what really kind of stood out

640
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: to me. But if you really kind of look at it,

641
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: like there's a finite amount of things that people could

642
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: think about in any given day, in any given context

643
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: in an office or something like that, Like had I

644
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: been a goat at a petting zoo and I went

645
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: over and talked to the cow and the cow was

646
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: writing the email about recycling bins. Maybe, but we're in

647
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: an office. I'm talking to the guy about recycling bins.

648
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of stuff that you kind of

649
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: Once you take that into account, it becomes less amazing,

650
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: Like like the guy writing the Titan Titanic book.

651
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what used to happen to me now

652
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: that I think of it is I used to and

653
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: this it's weird. It was only with phone landlines. It

654
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: hadn't happened with the cell phone. But I used to

655
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: like know the phone was going to ring right before

656
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: it rang. Oh yeah, like almost go to reach for it.

657
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: And I mean it's not like it happened all the time,

658
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: but it happened enough times where I was like, oh,

659
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: that's weird.

660
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: Sure, I know what you're talking about.

661
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: But that was all it was to me. I was

662
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: not like I have the gift.

663
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: Well think about it in that respect too. You know

664
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty people. So was it you knew who was

665
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: calling or just that the phone was about.

666
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: To run now just that it was about to ring.

667
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that is weird. You definitely do have.

668
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: Esp yeah, or maybe I don't know, maybe the phone

669
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: made a little tick noise right before it rang that

670
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 2: I didn't pick up on. Yeah, but only subconsciously, you know.

671
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: Well, that's another explanation for it. That, right, that there

672
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: is subliminal stuff in the environment that is just too

673
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: weak in nature for us to pick up on consciously,

674
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: but our unconscious does or subconscious does, which frankly opens

675
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: up a whole other can of worms. You know, as

676
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: far as you know, how real is that kind of

677
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: thing there, But probably a little closer to reality is

678
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: the idea that our attention isn't focused on everything that

679
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: we're picking up at all times, like like I see

680
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: your beard, and I see your shirt and everything, but

681
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm still also picking up like sensory information from like

682
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: Jerry's computer that I can see in my peripheral vision

683
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: or whatever. My attention isn't focused on it, but my

684
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: brain is still receiving information. So the idea that our

685
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: brains can put it together all this information that we're

686
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: not aware consciously that we're receiving, but we're still getting

687
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: impressions from it. That's that could be a great explanation

688
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: for esp as well.

689
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what now to think about it,

690
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: The fact that it's never happened with my cell phone.

691
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: Sort of makes sense because maybe there it was a

692
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: mechanical function a landline.

693
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, like you said a click or a tick,

694
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you meant like a click.

695
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: And it wasn't even the newer model. This was back

696
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: in the day when it was yeah, a ringing like bell. Sure,

697
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: so maybe that does explain it.

698
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've got another good example that I came across

699
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: from researching this. Let's say that you and I are

700
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: hanging out, yeah, and you're humming a Baby on the

701
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: fire work, right, just over and over again. I don't

702
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: know that song, but I'm reading Yes you do, No,

703
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: I don't, Yeah you do it? Was it Katy Perry?

704
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: I don't know Katy Perry anyway.

705
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: Although I will have to say I did love that

706
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: halftime show. It was great, well it was. It was hysterical.

707
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: What's up with the sharks being a meme? Now?

708
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: It was thin?

709
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: They were really significant.

710
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: She looked like she worked at corn Dog on a Stick.

711
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is that' thought all corn

712
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 1: dogs are on sticks.

713
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: It's that place in the Hot Dog on a stick,

714
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: that place in the mall where they were those big

715
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: giant Yeah. No, I don't know anything about Katy Perry,

716
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 2: but it was the funniest most Like the crazy just

717
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 2: kept coming and coming, and I was like, this is

718
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: the best thing I've ever seen. So anyway, in.

719
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: This universe, you're well aware of Katy Perry and her

720
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: song Firework, and you're humming it to yourself. But I'm

721
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: sitting there reading the New Yorker and I'm engrossed in it,

722
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: and I don't notice that you get up to go

723
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: make some nachos, and you come back in, and you

724
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: catch my attention because you're coming back in with some

725
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: nachos and they smell awesome, And now my attention is

726
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: directed to you, and you're still humming Firework right right,

727
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I was just thinking about that song Firework.

728
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: I had that in my head. How crazy we must

729
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 1: be connected. I didn't realize that you had been humming

730
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: it earlier, and beneath my awareness I picked it up.

731
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: Although once I became aware that you were humming it,

732
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: it seemed to me like I had well.

733
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that ties into another explanation is that people

734
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: who do seem to have that gift are just really,

735
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: really hyper observant on minute details. Like the same people

736
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 2: that can pick up on micro expressions. They might feel

737
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 2: like they have the gift because they're just really in

738
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: tune to what's going on around them or not just

739
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: like a big lunkhead walking around.

740
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: So a lot of people who believe in ESP say, yes,

741
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: we agree with that, especially parapsychology researchers, and there are

742
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: still plenty of respected ones out there. There's a guy

743
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: named Darryl Bem.

744
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that thing you sent. He's been doing

745
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: this for a while now.

746
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, legitimately we should talk about him. But to button

747
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: up that point, there is a lot of parapsychologists or

748
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: even just plain old psychologists who are researching ESP, yeah,

749
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: who say, yes, that definitely most likely accounts for almost

750
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: all of it, and that's good for us to be

751
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: thinking about that, and that in and of it self

752
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: deserves like academic inquiry and research. Right. Yeah, But there

753
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: are still some experience experiments that are being produced by

754
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 1: guys like Daryl Bem that are showing some weird results

755
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: that go beyond this kind of explanation.

756
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the problems, well, we'll talk about

757
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 2: the problems with even this research about it being reproducible

758
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 2: in a second. But he did a couple of experiments.

759
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 2: This is from NPR.

760
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: Akroll which wrote this. Oh really, yeah, from from from

761
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: Radio Lab.

762
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: Nice. I didn't know that these are the two that

763
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: he pointed out. He did nine different experiments, but the

764
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: two that he highlighted was at Cornell, which is where

765
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 2: bim is A does his work, right.

766
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's again a very respected psychologist. And this study,

767
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: that of these experiments was published in the Journal of

768
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: Personality and Social Psychology, which is a respected journal.

769
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they The first one was a computer quiz.

770
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: They took a hundred student it's fifty males and fifty women,

771
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: and basically they showed a computer screen with two little

772
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 2: curtains on it, side by side and said behind one

773
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: is nothing a brick wall, and behind the other is

774
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: something sexy. Yeah, some kind of you know, I was

775
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: about to call it pornographic, but who knows. Maybe it's

776
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 2: art nakednessism.

777
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, gross, This just make you feel like your dad

778
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: saying it or something.

779
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this room's too small for you to say.

780
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: So basically he would say, you tell me what you

781
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 2: think you're going to see, and they were all hooked

782
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: up two machines to read the you know, they're what's

783
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 2: going on in their body, of course, and you would

784
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: think it would be a fifty to fifty result, but

785
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: they actually got a fifty three point one percent result

786
00:41:54,200 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: for the what uh Crawlwitch calls erotic stimuli. And basically

787
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: they they think, or at least that's what Bem thinks,

788
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 2: is that one possibility is that if there is if

789
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: they think they're going to see something erotically stimulating, then

790
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 2: it got passed back through time.

791
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of his position, is that retrocognition thing. Yeah,

792
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: that they somehow their future selves who saw the erotic

793
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: image was stimulated enough that that stimulation traveled backwards three

794
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: seconds and influenced their choice.

795
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: Because they were they would be slightly stimulated physiologically right

796
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: before they guess. And he said, before the computer even

797
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: chose which which one to.

798
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: Show, right, they right, they were making their choices often correct,

799
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: before the computer chose to show an erotic or non

800
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: erotic image. And fifty three percent it doesn't sound like much,

801
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: but Krolwitch points out a couple of things. One that

802
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: when there was a control group that was shown non

803
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: eurotic pictures. Yeah, they did forty nine point eight percent correct,

804
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: which is chance.

805
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: And they're fifty to fifty and they're all not happy, right,

806
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: They're like, I don't want to be the control.

807
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: They're like, can we get a little steamier in here?

808
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: But and he also pointed out that fifty three fifty

809
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: three point one, to be specific, doesn't sound like much,

810
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: but apparently that's a point two percent chance where on

811
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: a scale between zero and one, where zero is it's

812
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: not going to happen, and one is that it's definitely

813
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Yeah, And apparently, as far as correlation goes,

814
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: or links between two things something affecting another, a point

815
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: two is about the same as the link between aspirin

816
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: and heart attack prevention, the link between calcium intake and

817
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: bone mass, the link between secondhand smoke and lung cancer.

818
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: So things that are touted is like, pay attention to.

819
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: This, yesh, yeah, yeah exactly. So stuff that we accept

820
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, yeah, if you're around second and smoke,

821
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: you can get cancer from that. This is probably has

822
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: the same exactly, yeah it is. And later on a

823
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: meta analysis of Bem's experiments, some other experiments that were

824
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: carried out afterward, and then some other experiments all grouped

825
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: together a meta analysis showed that they weren't. It wasn't

826
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: statistically significant if you took all of the existing body

827
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: of literature of these experiments. But it was a New

828
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: Scientist article and it was pretty cool. In the comment section,

829
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: somebody said, yeah, it's not reproducible, but a lot of

830
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: science isn't reproducible, And it reminded me of our scientific

831
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: method episode, Yeah, where like apparently a lot of trials

832
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: that like pharmaceuticals are based on aren't reproducible. Wasn't it

833
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: like fifty percent of them?

834
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, which doesn't surprise me of course.

835
00:44:59,520 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

836
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: All right, And then there was this other experiment that

837
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: I need you to explain to me because I didn't

838
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: understand it. Okay, you're ready, Like I got the first part,

839
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: but I didn't. It didn't make sense to.

840
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: Me because it's a little mind blowing.

841
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

842
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: So you know how like if you are studying something, sure,

843
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: and you write it down, Yes, it gets in your

844
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: brain a little more.

845
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

846
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that when you're tested on it later, you

847
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: will recall it more easily.

848
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a common study method. Write something down okay.

849
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: So Bem carried out a very simple experiment that did

850
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: the opposite of that. First, he showed some people a

851
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: bunch of a bunch of words, forty eight random words

852
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: I think noun's like tree or something like that.

853
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he told them to visualize it though, right.

854
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 1: Right, So they saw all forty eight words and thought about.

855
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 2: Them, not visualized the letters, but visualized the thing, right,

856
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: like see the tree and.

857
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: You're yeah, just just to kind of try to memorize

858
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: all forty eight words.

859
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

860
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: Then the computer randomly selected twenty four of those words,

861
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: and then after they'd done that, Bem gave them a

862
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: test of recall to see how many they recalled, right, Yes,

863
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: So the people had to type out the words they recalled.

864
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: Then after that, the computer randomly selected twenty four of

865
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: the forty eight words for the people to type after

866
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: they'd already taken the test of recall. And those twenty

867
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 1: four words are the ones that people more consistently got

868
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: right on the earlier tests.

869
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:29,959
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So.

870
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: It's another example of that retrocognition that these people getting

871
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: the words in their heads after the test somehow went

872
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: backward and influenced their recall and memory. Gocha for the

873
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: test that they took before they learned them.

874
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: That makes more sense a little. Yeah, it is a little,

875
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: but see time travel melts my brain too. Right.

876
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: So this guy published this stuff in like twenty ten,

877
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: and like it was, it made a huge, huge splash,

878
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: huge criticism. The Act Demic Journal was criticized and bem

879
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: was you know, pillar eat and all that. But he's

880
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: still you know, put out these these very reproducible, understandable,

881
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: simple exercises that still showed statistically speaking, there were some

882
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: significant results that went beyond chance.

883
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 2: So when it comes to debunking ESP one thing that

884
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: you're not gonna you know, you said fraud, You're not

885
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: going to see a lot of people call researchers outright

886
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: frauds because that's just sort of a dangerous thing to say. Sure,

887
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: it's not nice, but there are people out there who

888
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 2: I guess are criticized for, you know, basically trying to

889
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 2: call out and this is something completely different. But these

890
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: these on stage psychic.

891
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: Shows like crossing Over with John Edwards.

892
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's easy to pick those people out and

893
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 2: say you're a big fraud and this is not true

894
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: of course, and all you're doing is cold reading. Cold

895
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: reading we talked about in the Animal Pet Psychics episode, Right,

896
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 2: that's basically when you get up on stage and you say, sir,

897
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm sensing someone there. You're having some trouble with another

898
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: man in your life with a name of j or

899
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: or is it h or O P or maybe it's P.

900
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: Yes P, my boss Peter. Yes, yes, exactly. And that's

901
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: all a could reading is. It's throwing out these really

902
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: broad things that anyone can latch onto. So it's really

903
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 2: easy to call those people out. And there's a guy,

904
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 2: sort of a guy famous for doing that. His name

905
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: is James Randy, and he's famous for his offer of

906
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: one million dollars to anyone that can prove their psychic ability,

907
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 2: which of course no one stepped up to do that.

908
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: But then he gets poop pooed a little bit, like

909
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: you're just making a mockery of trying to legitimately disprove something.

910
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: And mockery is absolutely the right word. Yeah, And to me,

911
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: the presence of mockery indicates the absence of objectivity.

912
00:48:59,560 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

913
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 1: So like what you're dealing with then, with a guy

914
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: like that, is a set of beliefs a belief system

915
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: running up against another belief system, just like a couple

916
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: of religions or something like that. It's not objectivity against

917
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: fraud or anything like that. It's belief against belief or something.

918
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 1: And yeah, the idea of lumping together John Edwards with

919
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: Darryl bem is just that's, you know, fraudulent in and

920
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: of itself.

921
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just they call that theatrics, just like the

922
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: on stage theatrics of a stage psychic. Yeah, so I

923
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: totally agree.

924
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I do too. I think there's a

925
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: definite room for a healthy scientific inquiry into just about anything,

926
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: whether skeptics believe in it or not.

927
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 2: Sure, if you can get some funding for it, who cares.

928
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 2: That's my motto.

929
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: You got anything else on ESP, let me think. No,

930
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: I've got one more thing I found. I came across

931
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety i think five Nightline with Ted Copple, Yeah,

932
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: where the news broke that the CIA had been studying

933
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: ESP and trying to do remote viewing what Ronson was

934
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 1: talking about and the men who stare at goats?

935
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, John.

936
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: When it finally became declassified in nineteen ninety five, Ted

937
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: Copple did like a twenty minute Nightline segment on it.

938
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: Totally worth watching. It's some pretty softball questions.

939
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

940
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: Robert Gates, who would later become the head of Defense. Yeah,

941
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: he's on there just basically trying as politely as possible

942
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: to show that he does not believe in any of this,

943
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 1: even though he was the Formacia director. And it's just neat.

944
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: Plus you get to watch Copple again, right, he was

945
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: great news man. Yeah, I miss those dudes. I miss

946
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 2: I was just thinking yesterday about Brokaw.

947
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, rather I was.

948
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 2: I was always a Brokaw man.

949
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: Did you I liked Peter Jennings he was great.

950
00:50:58,640 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

951
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: I don't even know all of them were great.

952
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: I don't even have any idea who does nightly news

953
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 2: now I don't watch it.

954
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: It was Brian Williams until about a day ago.

955
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: Did he get fired? He like got I know, the

956
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 2: whole kerfuffle, but he didn't get fired for it.

957
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: Did. I'm using my esp to predict that by the

958
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: time this came this comes out, who will not be

959
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: there anymore? Wow, I think this is getting big quick interesting.

960
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Twitter's involved, man, the Twitter takedown.

961
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh. If you want to know more about ESP.

962
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: The internet was virtually set up for you to go

963
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: find out more about it. You can start by typing

964
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: ESP in the search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com. Since

965
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: I said that it's time for listener mail.

966
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, before we do listener mail, I just want to

967
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: give a quick shout out to my buddy Isaac McNairy.

968
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 2: If you remember, I did a Judge John Hodgman episode

969
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 2: with Emily in which I did a bad home renovation

970
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: and this dude stuff you should know. Listener from Kansas

971
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: carpenter Master Carpenter said hey, man, I'll come and stay

972
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 2: with you and help you do your your project there

973
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: right And I said this sounds crazy, and he actually

974
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: came and did it and it looks awesome and he's

975
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: a super cool guy. And if you're in Kansas near Eldoredo, Kansas,

976
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: there's no better guy to hire, El Dorados. It's El Daredo. Actually, Okay,

977
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: he has to point out, but not only is he

978
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: a great carpenter and a cool guy, but he works

979
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: with a nonprofit called Outreach Program And you can find

980
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 2: it an Outreach Program dot org where they're basically feeding

981
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: the world. They package food and they get people together

982
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: in a room and package these mass quantities of food

983
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 2: to send to other countries and feed the hungry. And

984
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: he's just a really good dude. So thanks to Isaac

985
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 2: for that. And my kitchen list is looking good. So

986
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: again for his nonprofit that is Outreach Program dot org.

987
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: And if you need a great carpenter and you're in Kansas,

988
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: check out retro Fit Remodeling.

989
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: Nice.

990
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 2: All right, listener mail to call this pronunciation help. Hey guys,

991
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 2: I'm a botanist and just wanted to throw throw you

992
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: a rope to help you out with pronouncing plant family names.

993
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: All plant family names end in A C.

994
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: E A E. Oh yeah, I thought I got that wrong.

995
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 2: It is a mess of vowels. Guys. When you read it,

996
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 2: you should just imagine you were spelling ace as in acee.

997
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: So when you read a plant family name, just break

998
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: off A the acee and read the first part and

999
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 2: then spell acee. So the plant family for poison oak

1000
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 2: is Anacardia anacardi a ce. So it's just Anna cardi

1001
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: a ce. I remember it by imagining the aneurysm and

1002
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 2: cardiac arrest I would have if I fell into it

1003
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: A N A C A R D I what well

1004
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 2: she spelled out anna CARDI, Oh gotcha the first two

1005
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: first letters from each of those words. Anyway, guys, I

1006
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: love your podcast. Find it endearing when you two puzzle

1007
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: out on pronunciations.

1008
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: Ace A, see, that's good to know.

1009
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I love you, bunches and that is from Jane,

1010
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: and she said ps. In Europe they pronounce plant families

1011
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: completely differently other parts of see. Other parts of the

1012
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 2: US might have other conventions, but the above pronunciation is

1013
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 2: standard in California.

1014
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: Oh well, okay, what ac ac If you want to

1015
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,280
Speaker 1: let us know something that we should have known before

1016
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: we even recorded, but you're generous enough with your time

1017
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: and effort to correct us, I guess there's a way

1018
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: to put it. Sure we That was very helpful. Thanks

1019
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,479
Speaker 1: a lot, Jane. If you want to be like Jane

1020
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: in other words, you can send us an email to

1021
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

1022
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1023
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1024
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,720
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.