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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Jensen McRae writes songs that cut straight to the bone,

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Speaker 1: intimate examinations of identity, relationships, and the complexities of coming

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Speaker 1: of age in today's world. Since releasing her debut EP

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Speaker 1: Who Hurt You in twenty twenty one, she's garnered attention

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Speaker 1: for her literary approach to songwriting and her ability to

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Speaker 1: balance vulnerability with sharp observation. Her music often grapples with

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Speaker 1: difficult subjects, navigating mixed race identity, processing, heartbreak, and confronting

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Speaker 1: the uncomfortable truths we tell ourselves, but there's also a

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Speaker 1: warmth and humor in her work, which can be heard

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Speaker 1: in this episode when she performs three songs Savannah, White Boy,

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Speaker 1: and let Me Be Wrong from her new album I

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Speaker 1: Don't Know How but They've Found Me. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: I talked to Jensen McCray about her journey as an artist,

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Speaker 1: why she gravitates towards niche communities online on Reddit, and

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Speaker 1: her list of goals that include both winning the Grammy

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Speaker 1: for Album of the Year and the mayoral run in

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Speaker 1: our native Los Angeles. This is broken record, real musicians,

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Speaker 1: real conversations. Here's my conversation with Jensen McCrae, where she

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Speaker 1: begins things with a live rendition of her song, Savannah, there.

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Speaker 2: Is an inner section in your college town.

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Speaker 3: WI your name, honing with your name morning.

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Speaker 2: You are said he couldn't wait to take them, should

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Speaker 2: have been Honor.

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Speaker 4: Calls you out, honor.

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Speaker 2: Disass side from God and archred l your fly.

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Speaker 4: See him in wad.

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Speaker 2: You try start to fly your curbridgesy saving LANDA well,

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Speaker 2: no under you, ask man of HAMI someone new.

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Speaker 4: Um to sup.

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Speaker 5: Here is a boy in out loud in on theth.

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Speaker 4: A bloody face.

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Speaker 6: Come you were tied embombing.

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Speaker 5: You swore raise our kidstand just like you with your

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Speaker 5: fast crafting. That's a goddamn commense.

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Speaker 4: Sassy side from.

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Speaker 6: God and archerd l on by You see him in

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Speaker 6: water n you try start by the bridges.

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Speaker 4: He's standing leader.

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Speaker 5: Well, no one under you, hossman of coming left someone

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Speaker 5: new ungoing to Supana. Come I hear it's hot and

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Speaker 5: the greatest ride his head le is away.

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Speaker 4: He used to up.

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Speaker 5: It's twenty one, he used to call those swim bitches.

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Speaker 4: Did in you if you're the sweet like honeydew.

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Speaker 5: Shvy how to talk to bus pass his side from.

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Speaker 4: Her Trey Lyley on why.

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Speaker 1: You See.

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Speaker 2: It?

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Speaker 5: Tried to start a fire for bridges, he stabbing Leanna,

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Speaker 5: you lost me?

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Speaker 4: So you want manner? Coming love with someone new, Come

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Speaker 4: in to Survivana, Go.

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Speaker 3: To Surveveano, Go went to Sana, Go.

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Speaker 1: To oh Man, so good, thank you oh Man. What

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Speaker 1: how did that song start?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 7: I wrote it a week after my first album came out,

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Speaker 7: and so I wasn't in the head space of necessarily

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Speaker 7: knowing or thinking about what I was making. But I

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Speaker 7: had this very weird thing happened to me where I

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Speaker 7: had two boyfriends in a row asked me to go

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Speaker 7: with them to Savannah.

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Speaker 8: Georgia, which is I have very Wrongnah?

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Speaker 7: No, they just both had reason to go and wanted

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Speaker 7: me to go with them, and I had never thought

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Speaker 7: about it before, and I just I didn't go with

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Speaker 7: the first one. But before I went with the second one,

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Speaker 7: I just started thinking about the city and its history,

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Speaker 7: and I found out how haunted it, and I just

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Speaker 7: started thinking about ghosts in the past, and I wrote

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Speaker 7: about how it feels to not be able to outrun

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Speaker 7: your best.

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Speaker 1: Wow, your first album was Are you happy now? You

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Speaker 1: wrote that? I mean you wrote that right after the

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Speaker 1: First Time come out? Were you happy after the First

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Speaker 1: Time came about?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I was relieved more than anything because I'd

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Speaker 7: been sitting on that album for three years and I

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Speaker 7: made it between the ages right about twenty one twenty two.

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Speaker 7: That was when I was making it, and then I

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Speaker 7: was twenty four when it came out, and I just

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Speaker 7: felt like I had already changed so much and I

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Speaker 7: was really happy to be telling that story, relieved that

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Speaker 7: it was finally out of my hands and into other

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Speaker 7: people's hands, and just really excited about being able to

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Speaker 7: tour it and see the world as a result of it.

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Speaker 1: Is that is that because a lot of people will

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Speaker 1: release a record, even if it's one they've been sin

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Speaker 1: on for a while, but release it and it's just

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Speaker 1: like there's not a lot of writing going on like

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Speaker 1: immediately after. But is that, like is that part of

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Speaker 1: a feature of your personality? Like are you? Are you

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Speaker 1: always onto the next thing? Is that? Or was it

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Speaker 1: that just happened?

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Speaker 7: I'd say generally, it's interesting because in the aftermath of

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Speaker 7: this most recent album, I definitely have not felt like

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Speaker 7: I have as much time to write. I've written a

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Speaker 7: little bit, but after the first album came out, I

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Speaker 7: felt like I was still really going, Like it felt

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Speaker 7: like the writing process was just not done. But also

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Speaker 7: a big difference is that, like my audience is a

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Speaker 7: lot bigger now. The rollout of this album has been

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Speaker 7: met with more fanfare, so like I have a lot

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Speaker 7: more press obligations.

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Speaker 8: I want more touring obligations. So I'm just like not

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Speaker 8: home in the way that I was three years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So Savannah, you so you're asked two times by

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Speaker 1: two different people. Did you write that before you went,

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Speaker 1: like as you were learning about it? Or did did

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Speaker 1: you rewrite anything after you went? Did you end up going?

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Speaker 8: I did end up going, and I didn't rewrite anything.

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Speaker 7: It still felt I mean, I definitely heard the voice

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Speaker 7: memo in my head while I was there, but it

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Speaker 7: felt very apt even after I actually ended up going,

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Speaker 7: felt accurate.

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Speaker 1: And what happened with did did? Why were you there?

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Speaker 8: It was it was for a work trip.

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Speaker 7: Coincidentally, he was just gonna be in Savannah, and he

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Speaker 7: asked if I wanted to visit him while he was there,

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Speaker 7: and I was like, I think I have to go

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Speaker 7: because I've been asked now twice, and I think I

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Speaker 7: have to see this place.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing.

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Speaker 7: People were very A lot of people ask me about

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Speaker 7: like why Savannah, and it is a very odd story,

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Speaker 7: and I think it is a really special city. Like

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Speaker 7: I mean, ghost tours are like a big part of

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Speaker 7: the attraction of the city, and like there's I mean

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Speaker 7: there's so many like bachelorette Like while I was there,

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Speaker 7: I saw a wedding and a bachelorette party, and I

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Speaker 7: think then we were joking like, oh, we have to

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Speaker 7: see a proposal and divorce and then we'll have the.

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Speaker 8: Full the full set.

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Speaker 7: And yeah, it's super humid, like obviously, like I remember

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Speaker 7: when I got there, like I felt like I was

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Speaker 7: swimming standing up because it was just like the air

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Speaker 7: was just so thick, and like that'll just make you

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Speaker 7: feel feelings like when you're in intense weather like that,

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Speaker 7: like it just stirs up I think, strong emotions and everybody.

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Speaker 1: It makes you feel well, alive, you're dead or something

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Speaker 1: with it's like you're like absolutely something can go wrong. Perhaps, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty wrong. Yeah, did you write anything while they're

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Speaker 1: like based on.

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Speaker 8: I don't think I did.

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Speaker 7: I don't think I did, but I feel like I'd

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Speaker 7: probably go back, And I remember thinking being there and

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Speaker 7: also being in a lot of other cities I've visited

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Speaker 7: on tour, like these smaller towns are very conducive to writing.

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Speaker 7: I think I think it would be good to do

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Speaker 7: like a writing retreat at some point, like get an

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Speaker 7: Airbnb and just like hole up somewhere and try to

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Speaker 7: write as much as possible. Yeah, because there's not as

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Speaker 7: much noise and as much distraction as there is in

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Speaker 7: a place like La.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird growing up in LA and then going

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Speaker 1: to other places where you realize like, oh, like you

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Speaker 1: know your friends will be from other places than you go,

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Speaker 1: and you realize like, wow, I really grew up in

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Speaker 1: a place that was not normal.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, Like I have that realization so much.

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Speaker 1: When did when did you first start getting outside of

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Speaker 1: out of outside of LA for music?

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Speaker 7: It didn't start until really until twenty twenty two, because

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Speaker 7: I grew up in LA and and then I went

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Speaker 7: to music school for college in LA and then a

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Speaker 7: year after I graduated, the pandemic started, and so I

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Speaker 7: wasn't touring at all or going anywhere, And so I

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Speaker 7: started touring in twenty twenty two and that was when

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Speaker 7: I started really meaningfully playing music in other places. And yeah,

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Speaker 7: I just really saw the contrast of where I grew

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Speaker 7: up with everywhere else. Like obviously there's just like the

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Speaker 7: pace and the population, but it's just like the way

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Speaker 7: people carry themselves. Like I always heard people say that

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Speaker 7: LA was a place of you know, a lot of

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Speaker 7: posturing and like a lot of people being fake. And

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Speaker 7: I never understood it because, like, I know so many great,

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Speaker 7: down to earth, authentic people in LA. But then I

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Speaker 7: went to other places and I was like, oh, people

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Speaker 7: are not putting on airs to go to the grocery store.

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Speaker 7: Like people are not They're just not as obsessed about

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Speaker 7: appearances and other places as they are here. And I realized,

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Speaker 7: like how that probably took a psychic toll on me

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Speaker 7: as a teenager in a way that I didn't comprehend

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Speaker 7: until I was an adult.

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Speaker 1: No, it's true. I even I like I live. I

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Speaker 1: moved to Long Beach, and even just being like a

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Speaker 1: little outside of the city, You're like, yo, like it's

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Speaker 1: a very different way, Like nobody gives a fuck question

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Speaker 1: at the grocery store, you know, as an example, like

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Speaker 1: you just you can go in your pajama's at the

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Speaker 1: grocery store and not feel like, yeah, it's a different

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Speaker 1: way of it's probably a healthier way of living.

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Speaker 7: Probably, yeah, But I do have an appreciation for having

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Speaker 7: grown up in LA for all of the for all

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Speaker 7: of its flaws. Like I'm such an LA apologist. I love, love,

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Speaker 7: love Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: What do you love about it?

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Speaker 7: Well, I mean the weather is obviously a huge part

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Speaker 7: of it, and there's just something about the air, which

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Speaker 7: some people would say it is pollution, but I like

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Speaker 7: there's something about the air and the light that's just

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Speaker 7: like very comforting to me. And it feels like there's

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Speaker 7: just so much possibility, maybe because the city is so

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Speaker 7: spread out and it's so many neighborhoods, like it feels

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Speaker 7: like it never ends. And it feels like even though

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Speaker 7: I've lived here my whole life, there's still so much

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Speaker 7: I haven't explored. And I love that feeling of like endlessness.

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Speaker 7: And also my whole family lives here, so it just

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Speaker 7: feels very comforting to know that, like my brothers and

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Speaker 7: my parents are just a drive away, Like I find.

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Speaker 1: I just love like one thing you dislike about LA.

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Speaker 9: I mean, the.

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Speaker 8: Traffic obviously is bad. That's a gimme, Yeah, that's anything

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Speaker 8: else I don't like.

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Speaker 1: I don't like.

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Speaker 7: I guess I don't like the ways and even though

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Speaker 7: I do, I love my air one and I love

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Speaker 7: the growth, I don't like the ways in which that

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Speaker 7: has become representative for the entire city because like people

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Speaker 7: are always shocked, for example, to find out that I'm

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Speaker 7: from here, and I think it's because I'm not like

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Speaker 7: a white woman with blonde hair drinking kale juice. But

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Speaker 7: it's like I'm a black woman drinking kale juice first

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Speaker 7: of all, and like there's just so much there's just

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Speaker 7: so much diversity, Like I love, like I love hearing Spanish,

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Speaker 7: Like that's another thing I love about like.

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Speaker 1: Places. Yes, yeah, I miss.

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Speaker 7: Hearing Spanish when I leave, and like there it just

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Speaker 7: it makes me sad when people write I guess maybe

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Speaker 7: this isn't a thing I just like about LA. But

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Speaker 7: people saying that they hate LA because they're like, oh,

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Speaker 7: I don't like influencers or like I don't like fake people,

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Speaker 7: or I don't like the entertainment industry, and I'm like,

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Speaker 7: even the things you dislike about it are more complex

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Speaker 7: than you're realizing. They are lovely influencers and lovely people

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Speaker 7: in the entertainment industry, and I've met them and like, yeah,

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Speaker 7: I I it disappoints me when people allow their vision

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Speaker 7: of LA to be super one dimensional and stereotypical, when

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Speaker 7: there's just so much depth to living here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, Well, well said, thank you, and.

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Speaker 8: Listen when I run for mayor what then, Wow, I

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Speaker 8: would vote for you, Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Wait, we could use it.

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Speaker 8: I'm scheming. I'm plotting and scheming in you know, in

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Speaker 8: like fifteen years.

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Speaker 7: That's on the it's on the vision board job. I mean,

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Speaker 7: I'm like, it's kind of a joke, but also it's real.

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Speaker 1: There's a party that would like to run from Really.

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Speaker 8: Everyone tells me not to, but I'm still thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: When did that? When did that start?

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Speaker 7: I just love LA so much and I have so

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Speaker 7: many great ideas. And I don't want to be the

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Speaker 7: president because that's too much work. But I want to

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Speaker 7: be the president when I was a child because I'm

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Speaker 7: a natural leader, and I would love I would love

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Speaker 7: to be the mayor of Los Angeles and see if

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Speaker 7: I can implement some of those ideas. But then, of

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Speaker 7: course people are like well, if you just become rich

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Speaker 7: and famous, you can implement your ideas without having to

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Speaker 7: go through the red tape of politics, which is maybe

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Speaker 7: very well be true. But I just I'm not ruling

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Speaker 7: out a mayor all run when I'm older.

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Speaker 8: I don't want to do it now. I have too

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Speaker 8: much music to do.

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Speaker 1: But it's more than to put it on the table

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Speaker 1: so people aren't like surprised when it happened huge like

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Speaker 1: Arnold farzeneggeror sounds like just from the beginning to say

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Speaker 1: like I don't want to. I'm going to marry into

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Speaker 1: the Kennedy family so I can. It's certainly not that, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's unseems cool. I don't know.

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Speaker 8: No, I don't want to know. It'll be It'll be

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Speaker 8: my political agenda will not be a marriage, but not

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Speaker 8: be a marriage of politics.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too derailed by this. But

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Speaker 1: what are your ideas to fix? Well?

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Speaker 7: I want there to be a fleet of electric buses

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Speaker 7: that get implemented, because I don't think I love the metro.

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Speaker 8: I took it in college actually, but.

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Speaker 7: It'd be it's really really hard on people's commutes to

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Speaker 7: be adding more metro lines, and I think one day

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Speaker 7: that is the vision. But I think in the meantime,

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Speaker 7: if we just get a fleet of super clean electric

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Speaker 7: buses that are on the street, and we just overrun

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Speaker 7: the street so that people will just become so inconvenienced

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Speaker 7: by driving that they'll just get on the super clean

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Speaker 7: new electric.

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Speaker 1: Bus because the buses are slowing down there.

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Speaker 8: There's but also because the buses look cool, they'll be

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Speaker 8: nice and brand new.

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Speaker 1: To your point, though, LA is so big, it is

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Speaker 1: so big, Like you know, off, I don't know where

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Speaker 1: you live. Let's say you're in Santa Monica. You know

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Speaker 1: it's not but it's not weird living here to be

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Speaker 1: like I'm going to go drive to like, you know,

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Speaker 1: to the Huntington on a Saturday afternoon. Oh yeah, are

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Speaker 1: you going to take the bus from Santa Monica to

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Speaker 1: the Huntington.

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Speaker 8: Ever, Well, I don't know that. I don't know.

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Speaker 7: I think we still will have cars, but I think

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Speaker 7: it should be a thing where like that's what cars

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Speaker 7: are for, is for when you're making the big cross

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Speaker 7: La Trek, but when you're in like your immediate neighbor,

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Speaker 7: like if you live in Echo Park, like and you

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Speaker 7: just want to go to Silver La or Los Felis,

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Speaker 7: like you should be able to hop on a really

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Speaker 7: nice clean electric bus to go there, as opposed to

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Speaker 7: having a drive and find parking which is a nightmare.

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Speaker 7: And yeah, I think there's I mean, there's an art

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Speaker 7: to road trips. If I've learned anything from touring, it's

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Speaker 7: at a great long road trip can be very healing

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Speaker 7: for the soul. But I just think it'd be nice

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Speaker 7: to have more options because like, I love living and

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Speaker 7: spending time in London as well. They obviously have a

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Speaker 7: great tube, they have great buses, and there are people

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Speaker 7: in London with cars, but like you just don't have to.

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Speaker 7: It's a nice to be freed from the shackles of

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Speaker 7: big car.

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Speaker 1: You're You're right, You are right when you say there's

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Speaker 1: an art to toryn like do you is there are

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Speaker 1: to road trips?

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Speaker 8: What?

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Speaker 1: Like? How do you well?

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Speaker 7: The most important part of road trip is the playlist,

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Speaker 7: and I love It's funny because on this last tour

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Speaker 7: I was in a van with a band for the

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Speaker 7: first time, and we were all yapping so much that

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Speaker 7: there wasn't that much attention being paid to the music.

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Speaker 7: Like at one point my guitar player drives sometimes and

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Speaker 7: he put on The West Side Story soundtrack for me,

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Speaker 7: cause that's my favorite musical.

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Speaker 1: Wait, yo, that's a good soundtrack.

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Speaker 8: It's really good and it's great for driving. It was

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Speaker 8: like a late night drive and it was perfect.

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Speaker 7: But when I was touring, what would be like just

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Speaker 7: me and my manager, Like I would curate playlists and

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Speaker 7: sometimes they would come to me, like in the dead

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Speaker 7: of night. Like I woke up in the middle of

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Speaker 7: the night one time to make a playlist that was

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Speaker 7: in my feelings and Rich Girl by Hollo know Its

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Speaker 7: and the Boy Is Mine and I was like, this

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Speaker 7: is the start.

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Speaker 8: I don't know what else is going on, but these

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Speaker 8: are the first three songs.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's good. Wait what was the first one in?

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Speaker 7: And then a Rich Girl and then the Boy's Mine.

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Speaker 7: I was like, that's how this playlist is starting. I

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Speaker 7: don't know where it's going, but I had to like

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Speaker 7: it's a fever dream of like this must be how

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Speaker 7: it begins.

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Speaker 1: That's inspired. That's inspired work. I would love to know it.

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Speaker 5: Oh.

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Speaker 8: I ended up being hundreds of songs, but I liked

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Speaker 8: doing a mix of like old school stuff, like stuff

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Speaker 8: from my childhood.

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Speaker 7: I love Craig David. No one talks about seven Days

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Speaker 7: and fill me In?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love me.

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Speaker 8: I was in a hotel.

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Speaker 7: I was standing outside of a hotel in Berlin at

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Speaker 7: the beginning of the last leg of this tour, and

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Speaker 7: fill Me In started playing over the speakers and I

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Speaker 7: was like, this is so And I was with my manager.

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Speaker 8: She couldn't hear it, and I was like, no, no,

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Speaker 8: it's definitely happening. It was like raining. I was jet labbed.

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Speaker 8: I was like, I'm maybe I'm hallucinating, but don't talk

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Speaker 8: about Kig David.

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Speaker 7: Kraig David always got to be in a playlist. Obviously

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Speaker 7: loved to put some brandy on there. Obviously loved to

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Speaker 7: put Holland notes. Like when I was a kid, I

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Speaker 7: listened to my parents played me a lot of like

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Speaker 7: James Taylor and Carol King like that always get the

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Speaker 7: mood up, Fleewood Mac, you know, just all the classics.

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Speaker 1: But then you also go there parents on board with that.

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Speaker 1: I was both, but they both that was both of

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Speaker 1: their musical diets.

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Speaker 7: My mom was the one who was more like the

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Speaker 7: She was like the James Taylor, Carol King stuff and

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Speaker 7: Stevie Wonder both my parents were. Stevie Wonder was like

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Speaker 7: the big overlap, I would say.

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Speaker 8: For my parents. Yeah, like my dad. So my dad

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Speaker 8: is a lawyer.

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Speaker 7: But he won my mom over by singing to her.

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Speaker 7: And he used to sing Donnie Hathaway and Stevie Wonder

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Speaker 7: to her.

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Speaker 1: Wait what yeah?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 8: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: He has a beautiful voice. Really, but he was like,

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Speaker 7: you know, he was like, I have to make money,

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Speaker 7: so he didn't. He didn't pursue it. But he went

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Speaker 7: to high school with Lenny Cravitz.

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Speaker 1: What yeah, like in Venice.

395
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Speaker 8: They went to Beverly Hill High School.

396
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Speaker 1: He's right, Okay, that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 8: What? Yeah? So he had like a he loves music

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Speaker 8: so much.

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Speaker 1: But what grow where did he grow up?

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Speaker 8: He grew up here because his.

401
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Speaker 7: Dad was a football player and he ended up he

402
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Speaker 7: was My dad was born in Tennessee and his father

403
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Speaker 7: was traded to the Bears and then to the Rams

404
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Speaker 7: when he was really little, so he was he lived

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Speaker 7: in Chicago for a second, but then mostly grew up here. Wow?

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Speaker 1: And did he did? Him and Lenny did?

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Speaker 8: They They were friends?

408
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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 8: What they're friendly?

410
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Speaker 7: I mean I don't think I don't think they've spoken

411
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Speaker 7: since they graduated. But my dad was telling me that

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Speaker 7: he went over to his house and like he heard

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Speaker 7: him play music and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's crazy, that's all right, hold lot.

415
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Speaker 1: So so he would sing like that's that's yeah.

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Speaker 7: He would sing chances are and he would sing Lately

417
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Speaker 7: by Stevie Wonder.

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Speaker 8: Those are like the songs that he would sing.

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Speaker 1: Do you growing up?

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Speaker 7: He definitely sang like in passing, like he would sing

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Speaker 7: along to stuff in the car, like he would put

422
00:19:18,796 --> 00:19:21,596
Speaker 7: on I have this very vivid memory of when I

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Speaker 7: was thirteen, he did a re enactment of brown v.

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Speaker 7: Board of Education for like the anniversary of the trial.

425
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Speaker 7: Like he played Thirdgod Marshal, I.

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Speaker 1: Need a dad. I need a d right now? Can

427
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Speaker 1: he can he adopt me?

428
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Speaker 8: He would love to.

429
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Speaker 1: I will. He would love say, I'll put my papers

430
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Speaker 1: out there.

431
00:19:36,796 --> 00:19:39,276
Speaker 8: He was the final boss of dads. Oh he's like such,

432
00:19:39,356 --> 00:19:40,476
Speaker 8: he's such a dad Martin.

433
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Speaker 1: This is incredible.

434
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Speaker 8: He's no, he's I mean, he's incredible, Like he's my hero.

435
00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:45,236
Speaker 1: He re enacted Board v.

436
00:19:45,516 --> 00:19:47,316
Speaker 7: Brownie Board of Education, and I remember I sang the

437
00:19:47,396 --> 00:19:49,116
Speaker 7: national anthem at it. For some reason, I don't know

438
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Speaker 7: what was going on. There, but we did that when

439
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Speaker 7: I was thirteen, and I remember that we like were

440
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Speaker 7: at the maybe at a courthouse or this was happening,

441
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Speaker 7: and then we went out to dinner after and my

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Speaker 7: dad drove me home. My mom had my brothers in

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Speaker 7: the other car, and I remember that Return of the

444
00:20:01,276 --> 00:20:03,676
Speaker 7: Mac came on and my dad was singing along to that,

445
00:20:03,716 --> 00:20:05,396
Speaker 7: and I remember thinking that was like the happiest I've

446
00:20:05,436 --> 00:20:07,796
Speaker 7: ever seen him, was him singing Return of the Mac

447
00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:10,116
Speaker 7: after having just done this, how re enactment was like

448
00:20:10,196 --> 00:20:13,436
Speaker 7: the confluence of all his favorite stuff and so now

449
00:20:13,556 --> 00:20:15,436
Speaker 7: Return of the like him singing Return of the Mac,

450
00:20:15,556 --> 00:20:17,956
Speaker 7: is like a very happy memory memory for me. And

451
00:20:18,076 --> 00:20:20,036
Speaker 7: I think I had plotted at one point to have

452
00:20:20,116 --> 00:20:22,356
Speaker 7: that be my walkout song on stage, which I could

453
00:20:22,396 --> 00:20:23,516
Speaker 7: still do. I think I should.

454
00:20:23,716 --> 00:20:25,436
Speaker 1: Really that's strong. Yeah.

455
00:20:25,916 --> 00:20:27,876
Speaker 7: Also, my name's McCray, so it's like Return of the Mac.

456
00:20:27,916 --> 00:20:29,516
Speaker 7: It's like it kind of works for my name.

457
00:20:29,516 --> 00:20:33,316
Speaker 1: It does, yeah, And it's that song is endlessly But.

458
00:20:33,356 --> 00:20:34,996
Speaker 7: He also likes to raps like he would he was

459
00:20:35,196 --> 00:20:36,716
Speaker 7: he actually is the person that put me on to

460
00:20:36,796 --> 00:20:42,196
Speaker 7: Kendrick Lamar. Really yeah, great when I was like seventeen,

461
00:20:42,316 --> 00:20:44,636
Speaker 7: like because he was aware of Timpa Butterfly before I

462
00:20:44,876 --> 00:20:46,476
Speaker 7: was really and he was like he put on the

463
00:20:46,516 --> 00:20:48,276
Speaker 7: black or the Berry when we were going on a hike.

464
00:20:48,116 --> 00:20:49,076
Speaker 8: And he was like, are you listening.

465
00:20:49,356 --> 00:20:52,076
Speaker 1: Listen kids in your high school not listening?

466
00:20:52,236 --> 00:20:53,796
Speaker 8: They were, but I just like wasn't.

467
00:20:54,116 --> 00:20:56,396
Speaker 7: I wasn't as tapped in and like I think people

468
00:20:56,436 --> 00:20:58,596
Speaker 7: had showed me, you know, the odd Kendrick song here

469
00:20:58,636 --> 00:20:59,916
Speaker 7: and there, but it was my dad. He was like,

470
00:20:59,996 --> 00:21:02,076
Speaker 7: this album is like one of he just he knew.

471
00:21:02,116 --> 00:21:03,996
Speaker 7: He was like, this is a classic album. These songs

472
00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:04,516
Speaker 7: are amazing.

473
00:21:04,956 --> 00:21:07,636
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, what was the first artist you connected with

474
00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:11,436
Speaker 1: as like this, like you know where you really identified

475
00:21:11,516 --> 00:21:12,876
Speaker 1: and became obsessed with It.

476
00:21:12,916 --> 00:21:13,596
Speaker 8: Was Alicia Keys.

477
00:21:14,436 --> 00:21:17,356
Speaker 7: Yeah, my mom played me Alicia Keys and it was

478
00:21:17,436 --> 00:21:20,796
Speaker 7: part of her campaign to like show me mixed race

479
00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:23,316
Speaker 7: people because like, my mom is white, my dad is black.

480
00:21:23,636 --> 00:21:25,876
Speaker 8: I was born in nineteen ninety seven. There wasn't like

481
00:21:25,956 --> 00:21:28,236
Speaker 8: a lot of there was representation.

482
00:21:27,796 --> 00:21:29,596
Speaker 1: Was starting like a lot of mix kids.

483
00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:30,756
Speaker 8: Now now there's so many.

484
00:21:30,916 --> 00:21:34,476
Speaker 7: Like my little brother's basketball team was like mostly mixed kids.

485
00:21:34,716 --> 00:21:36,516
Speaker 7: But like even the five years between us, it was

486
00:21:36,596 --> 00:21:37,836
Speaker 7: like it was it was like a chasm.

487
00:21:37,916 --> 00:21:39,516
Speaker 1: You never get it. I get jealous of that a lot.

488
00:21:39,996 --> 00:21:41,516
Speaker 1: I'm happy for them, but I walk around like I

489
00:21:41,716 --> 00:21:43,516
Speaker 1: really wish like I would thrive in this.

490
00:21:43,996 --> 00:21:46,716
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I wonder I want It's there's like

491
00:21:46,796 --> 00:21:48,396
Speaker 7: such a trade off because it wasn't only it was

492
00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:52,116
Speaker 7: not only being mixed, but also like the political climate

493
00:21:52,236 --> 00:21:54,156
Speaker 7: of when I was growing up, Like, it wasn't when

494
00:21:54,156 --> 00:21:54,836
Speaker 7: I was a teenager.

495
00:21:54,916 --> 00:21:56,276
Speaker 8: It wasn't cool to be political.

496
00:21:56,716 --> 00:21:59,116
Speaker 7: And so I'm like, what, I have also thrived in

497
00:21:59,156 --> 00:22:00,396
Speaker 7: a time when we where it was like cool to

498
00:22:00,436 --> 00:22:02,476
Speaker 7: have political to talk about race, and to talk about

499
00:22:02,556 --> 00:22:03,076
Speaker 7: those things.

500
00:22:03,956 --> 00:22:05,156
Speaker 1: When you were a kid. It wasn't we were a

501
00:22:05,196 --> 00:22:06,036
Speaker 1: teenager at well, I.

502
00:22:06,036 --> 00:22:07,036
Speaker 8: Mean when I was a kid, I don't think I

503
00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:08,076
Speaker 8: had political opinions.

504
00:22:08,116 --> 00:22:10,476
Speaker 7: But I was also eleven Barack Obama was elected, and

505
00:22:10,516 --> 00:22:12,756
Speaker 7: so like that whole like eleven to nineteen for me

506
00:22:13,076 --> 00:22:14,156
Speaker 7: was the Obama era.

507
00:22:14,516 --> 00:22:15,876
Speaker 1: What did that do to you? Because I was that

508
00:22:15,956 --> 00:22:17,316
Speaker 1: was the first election I was able to vote it

509
00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:22,436
Speaker 1: into that. Well, I mean yes, but I'll say it

510
00:22:23,116 --> 00:22:26,916
Speaker 1: only set me and my generation up for disillusionments. Yeah,

511
00:22:26,956 --> 00:22:31,356
Speaker 1: because you know suffered through Bush. Yeah, and then you

512
00:22:31,716 --> 00:22:34,796
Speaker 1: think we've fixed it, We're vote like what like I'm voting,

513
00:22:35,276 --> 00:22:38,916
Speaker 1: and but it does feel like generation is a bit

514
00:22:38,996 --> 00:22:43,396
Speaker 1: younger than me. Yours like didn't took the Barack Obama

515
00:22:43,756 --> 00:22:45,556
Speaker 1: presidency for granted in a sumise.

516
00:22:46,356 --> 00:22:46,916
Speaker 8: Absolutely.

517
00:22:47,236 --> 00:22:49,156
Speaker 7: When I was a kid, I remember thinking all the

518
00:22:49,196 --> 00:22:51,636
Speaker 7: time that I wanted to live through something. I was like, oh, well,

519
00:22:51,676 --> 00:22:53,996
Speaker 7: we have a black president, and like we fixed racism,

520
00:22:54,156 --> 00:22:56,596
Speaker 7: and like I just was I mean, my parents did

521
00:22:56,636 --> 00:22:58,036
Speaker 7: a good job of protecting me from a lot of

522
00:22:58,076 --> 00:22:59,996
Speaker 7: the truth of the world when I was young, and

523
00:23:00,116 --> 00:23:02,756
Speaker 7: so I didn't know how many problems there were still

524
00:23:02,876 --> 00:23:06,316
Speaker 7: to be dealt with. And I really felt like I

525
00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:08,276
Speaker 7: was under this the impression that I wasn't going to

526
00:23:08,316 --> 00:23:10,436
Speaker 7: be the first black women to do anything, because I

527
00:23:10,556 --> 00:23:12,596
Speaker 7: was like, Oh, it's already been done, it's already been solved,

528
00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:14,996
Speaker 7: and now and then Yeah, the first election I was

529
00:23:14,996 --> 00:23:17,196
Speaker 7: able to vote in was the twenty sixteen election, and

530
00:23:17,316 --> 00:23:20,036
Speaker 7: it was just like watching my world come crashing down

531
00:23:20,076 --> 00:23:22,516
Speaker 7: in real time, and like all these illusions that I'd

532
00:23:22,556 --> 00:23:26,596
Speaker 7: had about America, like the cracks had started to show

533
00:23:26,596 --> 00:23:28,396
Speaker 7: in the foundation before that, but like that was kind

534
00:23:28,396 --> 00:23:29,996
Speaker 7: of like the final moment of like, oh, Okay, I

535
00:23:30,036 --> 00:23:31,996
Speaker 7: see what's going on here and there is still so

536
00:23:32,156 --> 00:23:35,996
Speaker 7: much work to be done. I mean I I I

537
00:23:36,076 --> 00:23:38,396
Speaker 7: adn't kind of glad though that I had an Obama childhood,

538
00:23:38,436 --> 00:23:40,916
Speaker 7: because it was a very very idyllic time to be

539
00:23:41,076 --> 00:23:44,956
Speaker 7: a black kid in America. Yeah, was the president, and

540
00:23:45,076 --> 00:23:46,876
Speaker 7: I don't know what it would like to be a

541
00:23:46,956 --> 00:23:48,996
Speaker 7: kid now. Also, social media wasn't as bad when I

542
00:23:49,076 --> 00:23:50,796
Speaker 7: was a kid, Like it wasn't as pervasive.

543
00:23:50,836 --> 00:23:53,436
Speaker 8: It existed, but it wasn't. It wasn't on your phone.

544
00:23:53,676 --> 00:23:55,636
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was always it was on the computer, and

545
00:23:55,676 --> 00:23:57,276
Speaker 7: you could like get you could not we could walk

546
00:23:57,316 --> 00:23:58,796
Speaker 7: around and not have it carry it with you all day.

547
00:23:58,916 --> 00:24:01,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird. It was on the phone back, I guess, right,

548
00:24:01,276 --> 00:24:01,996
Speaker 1: but a little bit.

549
00:24:01,996 --> 00:24:04,756
Speaker 8: But like Instagram was like it wasn't You couldn't make

550
00:24:04,796 --> 00:24:06,356
Speaker 8: money on Instagram when I was a teenager.

551
00:24:06,516 --> 00:24:07,436
Speaker 1: That's one of the big changes.

552
00:24:07,476 --> 00:24:07,676
Speaker 8: Yeah.

553
00:24:07,676 --> 00:24:09,076
Speaker 7: It was just like a place where you shared photo

554
00:24:09,236 --> 00:24:10,996
Speaker 7: of your friends and you got ten likes and you

555
00:24:11,076 --> 00:24:12,076
Speaker 7: were like really excited.

556
00:24:12,276 --> 00:24:14,556
Speaker 1: Food Like that was the big criticism. Like the big

557
00:24:14,636 --> 00:24:18,076
Speaker 1: criticism of Instagram initially was why are people taking photos

558
00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:18,636
Speaker 1: of their meals?

559
00:24:18,716 --> 00:24:20,356
Speaker 8: That was my dad's criticism. He's like, well, no one

560
00:24:20,396 --> 00:24:21,316
Speaker 8: wants to see your breakfast.

561
00:24:21,516 --> 00:24:24,556
Speaker 1: We wish that was now. It's so innocent now.

562
00:24:25,036 --> 00:24:28,756
Speaker 7: But yeah, I feel even though obviously social media warped

563
00:24:28,796 --> 00:24:30,676
Speaker 7: some of my childhood, like I kind of got the

564
00:24:30,756 --> 00:24:34,196
Speaker 7: last chopper out, like I didn't have to, well because

565
00:24:34,196 --> 00:24:37,476
Speaker 7: like my well look at the kids now and like

566
00:24:38,276 --> 00:24:40,236
Speaker 7: my so, my little brother was O two and like

567
00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:43,276
Speaker 7: he got a he kind of didn't really escape social

568
00:24:43,316 --> 00:24:45,236
Speaker 7: media's child, but he sort of did. Like if you

569
00:24:45,276 --> 00:24:46,716
Speaker 7: were a kid who was born in two thousand and eight,

570
00:24:46,876 --> 00:24:49,836
Speaker 7: like you're a goner, Like you had no like the

571
00:24:49,916 --> 00:24:51,836
Speaker 7: iPhone was invented before you were born, like you have,

572
00:24:52,116 --> 00:24:54,156
Speaker 7: Like there was no window of time where you could

573
00:24:54,196 --> 00:24:55,236
Speaker 7: like play outside.

574
00:24:55,436 --> 00:24:57,276
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

575
00:24:57,676 --> 00:24:59,956
Speaker 8: Every generation says that about the subsequent generation. I guess.

576
00:25:00,036 --> 00:25:01,516
Speaker 1: So I don't know, but I think I think we

577
00:25:01,596 --> 00:25:03,756
Speaker 1: are in different I think I think we have crossed

578
00:25:03,756 --> 00:25:06,036
Speaker 1: the rubicon, so to speak. Like I don't think it's

579
00:25:06,116 --> 00:25:08,796
Speaker 1: now just like hating to be like these big things

580
00:25:08,836 --> 00:25:10,596
Speaker 1: are co hooked, you know, and I think things are cooked,

581
00:25:10,676 --> 00:25:10,836
Speaker 1: you know.

582
00:25:10,956 --> 00:25:11,836
Speaker 8: But I have a lot of hope.

583
00:25:11,876 --> 00:25:13,756
Speaker 7: I have a lot of hope, and I think one

584
00:25:14,356 --> 00:25:15,756
Speaker 7: that there is obviously a lot of good It's come

585
00:25:15,796 --> 00:25:17,716
Speaker 7: from social media, namely a lot of my career I

586
00:25:17,796 --> 00:25:21,676
Speaker 7: built on it. And also I just think that there's

587
00:25:21,796 --> 00:25:24,596
Speaker 7: a movement happening to get back to real life. I

588
00:25:24,596 --> 00:25:27,116
Speaker 7: think people really miss real life, and I think that

589
00:25:27,156 --> 00:25:30,076
Speaker 7: there's a lot of a lot of young people who

590
00:25:30,156 --> 00:25:34,316
Speaker 7: feel robbed of like in person, tactile, sensual experiences and

591
00:25:34,396 --> 00:25:35,956
Speaker 7: are seeking it out. And I think it's going to

592
00:25:35,996 --> 00:25:38,036
Speaker 7: become a real status symbol to not have a huge

593
00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:38,796
Speaker 7: digital footprint.

594
00:25:38,876 --> 00:25:41,556
Speaker 1: How do you navigate that given just you know, a

595
00:25:41,596 --> 00:25:43,556
Speaker 1: lot of your career you say it's like kind of

596
00:25:43,636 --> 00:25:46,956
Speaker 1: due to social media, but I imagine you, like everyone

597
00:25:46,996 --> 00:25:49,716
Speaker 1: else are, is also looking for ways to not be

598
00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:52,196
Speaker 1: attached tethered to you know.

599
00:25:53,076 --> 00:25:55,196
Speaker 7: Honestly, I haven't been that great about it recently because

600
00:25:55,196 --> 00:25:58,156
Speaker 7: I think especially when I'm touring, like when I'm in

601
00:25:58,236 --> 00:26:01,476
Speaker 7: the airport and I'm like really tired and like run down,

602
00:26:01,596 --> 00:26:04,636
Speaker 7: Like I don't want to be like meditating or like

603
00:26:04,836 --> 00:26:06,796
Speaker 7: you know, focusing on you know, the things in front

604
00:26:06,796 --> 00:26:07,796
Speaker 7: of me. I want to be on my phone because

605
00:26:07,796 --> 00:26:09,956
Speaker 7: I want to make the time pass. And so definitely,

606
00:26:10,036 --> 00:26:12,396
Speaker 7: in the last couple of months, like I've been spending

607
00:26:12,436 --> 00:26:14,236
Speaker 7: more time on my phone than I would like, But

608
00:26:15,116 --> 00:26:17,236
Speaker 7: I'm finding other ways to like be on screens that

609
00:26:17,316 --> 00:26:19,116
Speaker 7: are not social media, Like I'm getting back into playing

610
00:26:19,156 --> 00:26:22,156
Speaker 7: the Sims, which, like that is a great way to

611
00:26:22,276 --> 00:26:24,316
Speaker 7: like be on screen and kill time, but it's still

612
00:26:24,316 --> 00:26:26,556
Speaker 7: a creative activity. It's like I'm building houses. I'm like

613
00:26:26,636 --> 00:26:29,156
Speaker 7: making little people and telling little stories. And it's like

614
00:26:29,436 --> 00:26:31,676
Speaker 7: that's not the most intellectual way I could pass the time,

615
00:26:31,876 --> 00:26:34,196
Speaker 7: but it is still stimulating my brain. And like I

616
00:26:34,396 --> 00:26:37,276
Speaker 7: when I am using TikTok, my brain is not it's

617
00:26:37,316 --> 00:26:40,756
Speaker 7: not working, like it is off, and I think like

618
00:26:41,076 --> 00:26:43,236
Speaker 7: watching YouTube videos is another great way to like be

619
00:26:43,396 --> 00:26:44,996
Speaker 7: on a screen in a way that still feels engaging

620
00:26:44,996 --> 00:26:45,476
Speaker 7: because it's.

621
00:26:45,396 --> 00:26:46,516
Speaker 8: Like I'm consuming content.

622
00:26:46,756 --> 00:26:48,476
Speaker 7: I have to be I have to remember what I'm

623
00:26:48,516 --> 00:26:51,276
Speaker 7: watching in order for the content to make sense, whereas

624
00:26:51,316 --> 00:26:53,156
Speaker 7: on TikTok it's like I can forget everything that I

625
00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:54,596
Speaker 7: see as soon as I scroll past it and it

626
00:26:54,636 --> 00:26:56,716
Speaker 7: doesn't impact my day, Whereas like if I'm watching a

627
00:26:56,756 --> 00:26:58,676
Speaker 7: ten minute YouTube video, it's like, oh, I have to

628
00:26:58,756 --> 00:27:01,916
Speaker 7: follow the thread of whatever this person's talking about. I

629
00:27:01,956 --> 00:27:04,916
Speaker 7: also really like Reddit, which like maybe that's wait, tell.

630
00:27:04,796 --> 00:27:07,316
Speaker 1: Me about that, because I feel like Reddit was done right,

631
00:27:07,396 --> 00:27:11,676
Speaker 1: it's it is so bad what happened? Fact should be there.

632
00:27:11,836 --> 00:27:13,436
Speaker 7: I love it because I so I have all of

633
00:27:13,476 --> 00:27:16,236
Speaker 7: these interests, including the SIMS. My other big niche interests

634
00:27:16,276 --> 00:27:19,556
Speaker 7: are like make up perfume and like stationary.

635
00:27:19,756 --> 00:27:22,556
Speaker 1: Ok those are like things I love perfume, state wait,

636
00:27:23,356 --> 00:27:25,836
Speaker 1: make up, perfume, stationary and what else? And the sims

637
00:27:25,916 --> 00:27:26,676
Speaker 1: and the sims.

638
00:27:26,476 --> 00:27:29,156
Speaker 7: Yes, and so I'm on all those subredits like looking

639
00:27:29,196 --> 00:27:31,036
Speaker 7: at and so it's me engaging with other people who

640
00:27:31,076 --> 00:27:33,396
Speaker 7: are passionate about my interests. Like I love being in

641
00:27:33,436 --> 00:27:35,156
Speaker 7: the perfume subreddit where people like I'm looking for a

642
00:27:35,236 --> 00:27:37,236
Speaker 7: cent that has these notes and we're all trading ideas

643
00:27:37,356 --> 00:27:38,876
Speaker 7: or someone being like what's your favorite of this or

644
00:27:38,916 --> 00:27:40,916
Speaker 7: what are the bottles you've used up? And like it's

645
00:27:40,916 --> 00:27:41,436
Speaker 7: again it's.

646
00:27:41,276 --> 00:27:42,796
Speaker 1: Way of I feel you can trust these people.

647
00:27:43,236 --> 00:27:46,476
Speaker 8: I'm not giving them anything like meaningful, but but.

648
00:27:46,476 --> 00:27:49,116
Speaker 1: I mean, like like the recommendations and the opinions.

649
00:27:49,156 --> 00:27:51,316
Speaker 8: Well, that's what sampling's for, you know, people say you

650
00:27:51,356 --> 00:27:53,036
Speaker 8: should try this, and I get I spend five dollars

651
00:27:53,076 --> 00:27:55,356
Speaker 8: on a sample instead of two hundred dollars on the bottle. Okay,

652
00:27:55,636 --> 00:27:57,916
Speaker 8: it's there's a whole networ's a whole network of sampling.

653
00:27:57,996 --> 00:27:58,756
Speaker 1: That's how you're doing.

654
00:27:58,836 --> 00:28:02,076
Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, but I I really like, I'm hopeful that

655
00:28:02,196 --> 00:28:04,956
Speaker 7: like the Jens McCrae subreddit will become more active, Like

656
00:28:05,036 --> 00:28:06,876
Speaker 7: I want my start it or no, I didn't start it,

657
00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:10,276
Speaker 7: but I want my fans to like get more invested

658
00:28:10,316 --> 00:28:11,476
Speaker 7: in there. But I don't know if my fan I

659
00:28:11,476 --> 00:28:13,996
Speaker 7: don't know if like my top fans are Reddit people.

660
00:28:14,076 --> 00:28:16,436
Speaker 1: We're putting the call out. We'll just make a Reddit people.

661
00:28:16,356 --> 00:28:18,116
Speaker 8: Yes, please join us.

662
00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:22,476
Speaker 7: But yeah, yeah, I did an ama with Threddit, like

663
00:28:22,556 --> 00:28:24,156
Speaker 7: right when the album was coming out, and I loved that.

664
00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:26,596
Speaker 8: Wow, because I feel like the people. I know there

665
00:28:26,676 --> 00:28:29,876
Speaker 8: was a stereotype for a while. Yeah, well, I know

666
00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:31,796
Speaker 8: there was a stereotype for a while about Reddit that

667
00:28:31,876 --> 00:28:33,476
Speaker 8: it was like a certain kind of only a certain

668
00:28:33,556 --> 00:28:34,236
Speaker 8: kind of person use it.

669
00:28:34,316 --> 00:28:36,436
Speaker 7: It was like a negative stereotype. But my experience with

670
00:28:36,476 --> 00:28:38,916
Speaker 7: thread it is it's all very thoughtful people. Because people

671
00:28:39,076 --> 00:28:42,116
Speaker 7: like to leave long text posts, like it's not a

672
00:28:42,356 --> 00:28:44,236
Speaker 7: it's a place that it's the only place on the

673
00:28:44,276 --> 00:28:47,156
Speaker 7: Internet that still rewards long text posts because like obviously

674
00:28:47,236 --> 00:28:49,676
Speaker 7: on Twitter, you're limited by characters unless you like pay,

675
00:28:49,836 --> 00:28:51,876
Speaker 7: which I haven't used Twitter in almost a year at

676
00:28:51,916 --> 00:28:54,316
Speaker 7: this point, but on Instagram, like you can make a

677
00:28:54,396 --> 00:28:56,476
Speaker 7: long caption. But the point is the photos and TikTok.

678
00:28:56,516 --> 00:28:59,036
Speaker 7: The point is the videos and and Reddit is a

679
00:28:59,076 --> 00:29:01,356
Speaker 7: place where's the there is no photo and I mean

680
00:29:01,396 --> 00:29:03,556
Speaker 7: you can add photos to text posts. But the point

681
00:29:03,596 --> 00:29:05,676
Speaker 7: of it is that you're having these long conversations. And

682
00:29:05,756 --> 00:29:07,316
Speaker 7: I think that's why I'm now drawn to it. I'm like,

683
00:29:07,356 --> 00:29:09,036
Speaker 7: all I want to do is talk dot talk, okay,

684
00:29:09,156 --> 00:29:10,196
Speaker 7: And that's the best place to do it.

685
00:29:10,556 --> 00:29:16,356
Speaker 1: It's the review, stationary stamps, no stationary.

686
00:29:16,196 --> 00:29:19,116
Speaker 8: Makeup, perfume, and the sims. Okay, all right, that's where

687
00:29:19,156 --> 00:29:19,476
Speaker 8: I live.

688
00:29:19,676 --> 00:29:21,316
Speaker 1: What a songwriting come in on?

689
00:29:21,636 --> 00:29:24,196
Speaker 8: Let's no, I don't do I don't need Reddit for songwriting. Songwriting?

690
00:29:24,276 --> 00:29:25,196
Speaker 8: Is I do that on my hed?

691
00:29:25,196 --> 00:29:27,996
Speaker 1: How did you? Okay? Because I feel like you're how

692
00:29:28,036 --> 00:29:30,276
Speaker 1: can I say this, Like you're you're a very good

693
00:29:30,316 --> 00:29:33,436
Speaker 1: songwriter than you in my estimation for what that is worth.

694
00:29:33,716 --> 00:29:36,196
Speaker 1: And I feel like the way you write songs is

695
00:29:36,236 --> 00:29:38,916
Speaker 1: almost a lost art, like you like you write songs

696
00:29:38,956 --> 00:29:42,516
Speaker 1: in the way like great songs used to be written,

697
00:29:42,556 --> 00:29:44,556
Speaker 1: in a sense, like you know, like they're very they're

698
00:29:44,636 --> 00:29:47,356
Speaker 1: not they're not hyper specific, you know, like it's like

699
00:29:47,396 --> 00:29:49,636
Speaker 1: there's a lot of room for interpretation and there's a

700
00:29:49,676 --> 00:29:54,596
Speaker 1: lot of like just turns of phrases and ambiguousness and

701
00:29:54,876 --> 00:29:58,116
Speaker 1: that that creates a level of intrigue and and and

702
00:29:58,276 --> 00:30:01,076
Speaker 1: they're really good. So like, how did you become good

703
00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:02,636
Speaker 1: at that? How did you put that together? I get

704
00:30:02,676 --> 00:30:05,236
Speaker 1: how you got into the Yes, yes, I get how

705
00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:08,276
Speaker 1: you've become a makeup maven through Reddit, but yeah.

706
00:30:08,156 --> 00:30:11,196
Speaker 7: With with I always wanted to tell stories, Like I

707
00:30:11,396 --> 00:30:14,196
Speaker 7: just loved being read to as a child, and my

708
00:30:14,316 --> 00:30:16,876
Speaker 7: mom had a thing where we would go to bookstores

709
00:30:16,916 --> 00:30:18,316
Speaker 7: and toy stores and if I went to a toy store,

710
00:30:18,316 --> 00:30:19,356
Speaker 7: I could get one toy, but if I went to

711
00:30:19,356 --> 00:30:20,916
Speaker 7: a bookstore, I get as many books as I wanted.

712
00:30:21,516 --> 00:30:24,356
Speaker 7: And obviously this was a long scam to get me

713
00:30:24,476 --> 00:30:26,436
Speaker 7: to be a reader, and it worked very well.

714
00:30:27,396 --> 00:30:28,716
Speaker 8: And I just always wanted to tell stories.

715
00:30:28,756 --> 00:30:30,876
Speaker 7: And I always sang to myself, like my mom just

716
00:30:30,876 --> 00:30:32,556
Speaker 7: said when I was like very little, like as soon

717
00:30:32,596 --> 00:30:34,796
Speaker 7: as I was talking, I was also just singing to myself.

718
00:30:35,516 --> 00:30:38,236
Speaker 7: And it really was, you know, through the Alicia Keys

719
00:30:38,316 --> 00:30:39,676
Speaker 7: thing of like my mom trying to give me role

720
00:30:39,756 --> 00:30:41,676
Speaker 7: models people who look like me. I just saw her

721
00:30:41,756 --> 00:30:43,236
Speaker 7: and I was like, she looks I'm gonna do that

722
00:30:43,316 --> 00:30:45,476
Speaker 7: because I look like her, so I can do that.

723
00:30:45,716 --> 00:30:48,796
Speaker 7: It was like such a simple, like neurons firing moment.

724
00:30:48,956 --> 00:30:50,996
Speaker 8: Yeah. I just was like that, that's someone something that

725
00:30:51,076 --> 00:30:51,396
Speaker 8: I can do.

726
00:30:52,116 --> 00:30:53,396
Speaker 7: And when I told my mom I wanted to be

727
00:30:53,396 --> 00:30:54,676
Speaker 7: a singer, she's like, well, you have to learn how

728
00:30:54,676 --> 00:30:56,036
Speaker 7: to write songs because that's where all the money is.

729
00:30:56,076 --> 00:30:58,436
Speaker 7: Like there was no discussion of, like, there's no point

730
00:30:59,156 --> 00:31:01,196
Speaker 7: that I don't know great either, my parents work in

731
00:31:01,236 --> 00:31:01,916
Speaker 7: the music industry.

732
00:31:01,956 --> 00:31:03,356
Speaker 8: But she was like, you have to write your own songs.

733
00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:04,356
Speaker 8: And I was like all right.

734
00:31:04,436 --> 00:31:07,436
Speaker 7: So I started taking piano lessons and I went through

735
00:31:07,436 --> 00:31:09,876
Speaker 7: a couple of piano teachers, none of whom I particularly liked,

736
00:31:10,116 --> 00:31:12,716
Speaker 7: and it was because I didn't want to read music

737
00:31:12,716 --> 00:31:14,436
Speaker 7: and I didn't want to do classical music. And we

738
00:31:14,516 --> 00:31:17,876
Speaker 7: found this piano teacher who very dramatically was like, well,

739
00:31:18,036 --> 00:31:19,916
Speaker 7: you know, taking the classical music off the stand, Like

740
00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:20,636
Speaker 7: what do you want to do?

741
00:31:20,756 --> 00:31:22,836
Speaker 8: And I was like, I want to learn Beautiful by Cristina.

742
00:31:22,516 --> 00:31:24,716
Speaker 7: Aguilera, and she was like okay, So she taught me

743
00:31:24,756 --> 00:31:27,036
Speaker 7: how to pick music out by ear and taught me

744
00:31:27,036 --> 00:31:30,676
Speaker 7: how to read guitar charts, and then very quickly thereafter

745
00:31:30,876 --> 00:31:32,676
Speaker 7: was like teaching me how to write songs as well.

746
00:31:33,396 --> 00:31:36,636
Speaker 7: And I would, you know, bring her my small ideas

747
00:31:36,796 --> 00:31:38,676
Speaker 7: about songs and she would help me flesh them out

748
00:31:38,676 --> 00:31:39,996
Speaker 7: and eventually back to the point where I could finish

749
00:31:40,036 --> 00:31:42,956
Speaker 7: them by myself. And I think a big part of

750
00:31:42,996 --> 00:31:45,716
Speaker 7: why I got good at it was because my parents

751
00:31:45,796 --> 00:31:49,316
Speaker 7: instilled so much confidence in me from such a young

752
00:31:49,396 --> 00:31:52,676
Speaker 7: age that I genuinely believed I was writing Grammy worthy

753
00:31:52,756 --> 00:31:55,156
Speaker 7: material when I was like nine years old and there

754
00:31:55,236 --> 00:31:57,836
Speaker 7: was no like. I love the confidence that I have

755
00:31:57,916 --> 00:32:00,156
Speaker 7: in myself now and the you know, my opinion of

756
00:32:00,236 --> 00:32:02,116
Speaker 7: my songs now is the same as it was when

757
00:32:02,116 --> 00:32:04,396
Speaker 7: I was like ten, but the songs were not there,

758
00:32:04,436 --> 00:32:05,116
Speaker 7: simply were not good.

759
00:32:05,196 --> 00:32:08,196
Speaker 1: But I know your dad though, but hold on a second,

760
00:32:08,196 --> 00:32:10,156
Speaker 1: this is why you're dad in your mom's I don't

761
00:32:10,156 --> 00:32:11,596
Speaker 1: want to I don't want to discount your mom.

762
00:32:11,716 --> 00:32:14,676
Speaker 7: No, my parents like they were just so they told

763
00:32:14,716 --> 00:32:16,716
Speaker 7: I mean, they told me they're like, you're the greatest.

764
00:32:16,876 --> 00:32:18,516
Speaker 7: Like when I was like I'm a I'm like, look

765
00:32:18,556 --> 00:32:19,876
Speaker 7: at this song that I wrote it's amazing. They're like,

766
00:32:19,916 --> 00:32:22,236
Speaker 7: you're right, and like I watch videos back because ID

767
00:32:22,356 --> 00:32:24,556
Speaker 7: musical theater too, And I watched videos back of me

768
00:32:24,636 --> 00:32:26,796
Speaker 7: doing musical theater and of me playing my original songs

769
00:32:26,836 --> 00:32:28,796
Speaker 7: when I was first starting to write them, and I'm like,

770
00:32:28,876 --> 00:32:31,396
Speaker 7: these are fine, like for a kid. They're like fine

771
00:32:31,476 --> 00:32:33,876
Speaker 7: for a kid. And I'm like, how I asked my

772
00:32:33,996 --> 00:32:35,916
Speaker 7: parents recently, like how did you know that this was

773
00:32:35,956 --> 00:32:38,396
Speaker 7: going to go anywhere? Like we just did, We just were,

774
00:32:38,596 --> 00:32:41,156
Speaker 7: We just knew they And I'm like that's crazy, Like

775
00:32:41,196 --> 00:32:42,196
Speaker 7: you shouldn't.

776
00:32:41,796 --> 00:32:44,556
Speaker 4: Have, Like I wasn't that good, like it took Like

777
00:32:44,716 --> 00:32:45,516
Speaker 4: do you have siblings?

778
00:32:45,636 --> 00:32:45,796
Speaker 2: I do?

779
00:32:45,956 --> 00:32:47,956
Speaker 8: Yeah, I have an older brother who's my business manager.

780
00:32:48,036 --> 00:32:49,876
Speaker 7: He doesn't do music, and then my little brother is

781
00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:51,996
Speaker 7: my keyboard player and also has his own artist project

782
00:32:52,076 --> 00:32:53,996
Speaker 7: and is astoundingly talented as well.

783
00:32:54,556 --> 00:32:58,196
Speaker 1: Were they as Were they equally as Lata toy?

784
00:32:58,476 --> 00:32:58,556
Speaker 5: Uh?

785
00:32:58,756 --> 00:32:59,876
Speaker 8: Yes, yes, very much.

786
00:32:59,956 --> 00:32:59,996
Speaker 2: So.

787
00:33:00,076 --> 00:33:03,956
Speaker 7: I mean my little brother, he he's like he's one

788
00:33:03,956 --> 00:33:05,276
Speaker 7: of those people that's just good at everything.

789
00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:05,796
Speaker 8: He tries.

790
00:33:05,916 --> 00:33:08,596
Speaker 7: Like both my both my brothers played basketball. So my

791
00:33:08,636 --> 00:33:11,676
Speaker 7: little brother, every single one of his pursuits or most

792
00:33:11,676 --> 00:33:13,676
Speaker 7: of his pursuits were originated and wanted to copy his

793
00:33:13,756 --> 00:33:16,156
Speaker 7: older siblings. But then he's also like this amazing chef

794
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:18,476
Speaker 7: because he just on his own just like loved food.

795
00:33:18,716 --> 00:33:20,196
Speaker 7: So he was a person that everything he touched he

796
00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:23,036
Speaker 7: was just great at. And keep the piano was like

797
00:33:23,076 --> 00:33:25,196
Speaker 7: one of in particular. He was just so exceptional at that,

798
00:33:25,276 --> 00:33:27,636
Speaker 7: and like he just wants to sit and play the

799
00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:29,156
Speaker 7: piano for hours and hours and hours, and that like

800
00:33:29,196 --> 00:33:33,756
Speaker 7: makes him happy. And my parents definitely encourage that because

801
00:33:33,796 --> 00:33:36,476
Speaker 7: they were like he had boundless energy, so like we're

802
00:33:36,476 --> 00:33:37,916
Speaker 7: gonna put you in basketball to burn off all that

803
00:33:37,956 --> 00:33:40,116
Speaker 7: physical energy, and you're gonna be in these piano lessons

804
00:33:40,116 --> 00:33:41,556
Speaker 7: to burn off all that mental energy and then maybe

805
00:33:41,556 --> 00:33:46,476
Speaker 7: you'll finally go to sleep. But yeah, they're they're incredibly supportive.

806
00:33:46,476 --> 00:33:47,996
Speaker 7: And I think if my older brother had wanted to

807
00:33:48,036 --> 00:33:49,876
Speaker 7: do something creative, they would have been really supportive of

808
00:33:49,956 --> 00:33:52,196
Speaker 7: that too. Like that was why my dad became a lawyer,

809
00:33:52,236 --> 00:33:53,676
Speaker 7: because he was like, I want to give my kids

810
00:33:54,076 --> 00:33:56,036
Speaker 7: full options, Like I don't want them to do anything

811
00:33:56,116 --> 00:33:58,476
Speaker 7: because of money, Like I want them to make all

812
00:33:58,516 --> 00:34:01,156
Speaker 7: their life path choices based on what they're really truly

813
00:34:01,196 --> 00:34:02,516
Speaker 7: passionate about and what they're good at.

814
00:34:02,556 --> 00:34:04,116
Speaker 8: And not just what they think is like the safe.

815
00:34:03,996 --> 00:34:07,996
Speaker 1: Bet that's great. Yeah, that's amazing. I feel like we

816
00:34:08,036 --> 00:34:09,956
Speaker 1: should line your dad out to like I feel like

817
00:34:10,036 --> 00:34:11,436
Speaker 1: your dad needs to start a service.

818
00:34:14,196 --> 00:34:15,956
Speaker 8: Like I don't know, all he wants to do is

819
00:34:15,996 --> 00:34:17,116
Speaker 8: tell people how to live their life.

820
00:34:17,396 --> 00:34:19,476
Speaker 7: Like his number one passion is like if I have

821
00:34:19,516 --> 00:34:22,196
Speaker 7: a friend over or something, he's like asking them what

822
00:34:22,236 --> 00:34:23,556
Speaker 7: they're doing, and it's like, Okay, so here's what you're

823
00:34:23,596 --> 00:34:24,916
Speaker 7: gonna do, and here's your five year plan.

824
00:34:24,956 --> 00:34:26,916
Speaker 8: Like he's ready to falk in.

825
00:34:27,356 --> 00:34:29,396
Speaker 7: That's and I hope, I do hope when he retires

826
00:34:29,436 --> 00:34:31,716
Speaker 7: that he gets the opportunity to just like dispense wisdom

827
00:34:31,796 --> 00:34:32,636
Speaker 7: to young.

828
00:34:32,556 --> 00:34:35,516
Speaker 1: People, get them on TV. I feel I know it's

829
00:34:35,516 --> 00:34:39,516
Speaker 1: gonna be good. We'll be back with more from Jensen

830
00:34:39,596 --> 00:34:47,036
Speaker 1: McCrae after the break. So your mom was showing you

831
00:34:47,716 --> 00:34:51,436
Speaker 1: mixed race women specifically for you to identify with and

832
00:34:51,636 --> 00:34:55,196
Speaker 1: and Alicia Keys. It does seem like you like and

833
00:34:55,316 --> 00:34:58,316
Speaker 1: just also judging by some of some of the songs

834
00:34:58,396 --> 00:35:00,396
Speaker 1: like on your first album, like the sort of trilogy

835
00:35:00,476 --> 00:35:08,916
Speaker 1: of songs uh headlock uh, Like there was clearly a

836
00:35:09,156 --> 00:35:15,476
Speaker 1: I Am where you you were struggling in your identity

837
00:35:15,636 --> 00:35:17,116
Speaker 1: and who you were and wouldn't you know, Yeah, I

838
00:35:17,116 --> 00:35:17,636
Speaker 1: mean growing up.

839
00:35:17,636 --> 00:35:19,836
Speaker 7: I grew up in LA and I went to private

840
00:35:19,876 --> 00:35:22,076
Speaker 7: school my whole life, and I was surrounded by mostly

841
00:35:22,196 --> 00:35:27,276
Speaker 7: white people, and yeah, I did not feel like I

842
00:35:27,396 --> 00:35:31,756
Speaker 7: belonged at all. And it felt like just this frustrating

843
00:35:31,836 --> 00:35:34,796
Speaker 7: liability to be darker skinned, Like it just felt like

844
00:35:34,836 --> 00:35:39,316
Speaker 7: it was boxing me out of social opportunities and it

845
00:35:39,556 --> 00:35:41,076
Speaker 7: just like made people underestimate me.

846
00:35:41,196 --> 00:35:42,796
Speaker 8: And I felt like I was ugly, Like I just

847
00:35:42,876 --> 00:35:44,556
Speaker 8: didn't like what I looked like at all.

848
00:35:44,796 --> 00:35:48,036
Speaker 7: And it's crazy to think about now because like I

849
00:35:48,196 --> 00:35:51,276
Speaker 7: just I just no longer care like about like the

850
00:35:51,316 --> 00:35:52,196
Speaker 7: white beauty standard.

851
00:35:52,236 --> 00:35:53,356
Speaker 8: It's just totally relevant to me.

852
00:35:53,436 --> 00:35:55,876
Speaker 7: But when I was a teenager, like obviously, it felt

853
00:35:55,876 --> 00:35:57,716
Speaker 7: like the most important thing in the world, and my

854
00:35:57,836 --> 00:36:00,356
Speaker 7: parents were very It was in spite of my parents'

855
00:36:00,436 --> 00:36:02,836
Speaker 7: best efforts to ensure that we all thought like that

856
00:36:03,036 --> 00:36:05,036
Speaker 7: black is beautiful, like they were they were hammering that

857
00:36:05,116 --> 00:36:05,876
Speaker 7: home really hard.

858
00:36:06,196 --> 00:36:07,076
Speaker 1: But the world seeped in.

859
00:36:07,236 --> 00:36:09,316
Speaker 7: The world is just so loud, you know, especial for

860
00:36:09,356 --> 00:36:10,876
Speaker 7: teenage girls. I think it was a little easier for

861
00:36:10,956 --> 00:36:12,716
Speaker 7: my brothers, but especially being a teenage.

862
00:36:12,476 --> 00:36:15,956
Speaker 1: Girls marked difference for yeah, well because they.

863
00:36:15,916 --> 00:36:19,076
Speaker 7: Were also because they were both athletes, like they were

864
00:36:19,396 --> 00:36:22,196
Speaker 7: the they were a form of black manhood that was

865
00:36:22,356 --> 00:36:26,076
Speaker 7: very comfortable for people. Like also, they're both lighter than

866
00:36:26,116 --> 00:36:27,996
Speaker 7: I am, Like I'm the darkest of my siblings, and

867
00:36:28,076 --> 00:36:30,196
Speaker 7: so I think like having like a light skin black

868
00:36:30,276 --> 00:36:32,396
Speaker 7: man who's tall and fit and good looking and good

869
00:36:32,396 --> 00:36:33,716
Speaker 7: at basketball and good at school.

870
00:36:33,836 --> 00:36:36,236
Speaker 8: Like they were just checking all the boxes and people

871
00:36:36,356 --> 00:36:36,876
Speaker 8: just love them.

872
00:36:37,316 --> 00:36:40,636
Speaker 7: And I was like darker skinned and like not an athlete,

873
00:36:40,676 --> 00:36:42,716
Speaker 7: and like the music I made was like not what

874
00:36:42,876 --> 00:36:44,876
Speaker 7: people would expect my music to sound like. And I

875
00:36:44,956 --> 00:36:47,156
Speaker 7: was just so loud and opinionated, and it was like

876
00:36:47,596 --> 00:36:50,196
Speaker 7: it was you know, it's not something I wasn't palatable

877
00:36:50,516 --> 00:36:54,716
Speaker 7: to the people that I was around, and I sort

878
00:36:54,756 --> 00:36:56,916
Speaker 7: of like dug my. I didn't really feel like I

879
00:36:56,996 --> 00:36:58,556
Speaker 7: had a way to conform, so I just dug my

880
00:36:58,596 --> 00:37:01,636
Speaker 7: heels in. It just became like even more antagonistic and

881
00:37:01,996 --> 00:37:07,196
Speaker 7: oppositional to those standards. But yeah, those writing those the

882
00:37:07,236 --> 00:37:10,436
Speaker 7: Headlock Trilogy was kind of me pross using in real

883
00:37:10,556 --> 00:37:13,156
Speaker 7: time in college, Like how hard my parents worked to

884
00:37:13,276 --> 00:37:15,556
Speaker 7: try to protect me from that kind of self hatred

885
00:37:16,196 --> 00:37:18,676
Speaker 7: and just like getting so emotional at like how much

886
00:37:18,756 --> 00:37:20,716
Speaker 7: they loved me and how much they just like it

887
00:37:20,796 --> 00:37:23,156
Speaker 7: was the putting in so much effort to try to

888
00:37:23,196 --> 00:37:24,356
Speaker 7: stop the world from getting in.

889
00:37:24,676 --> 00:37:27,636
Speaker 1: Yeah, did did that? Like did they have a sense

890
00:37:27,676 --> 00:37:28,876
Speaker 1: of how much you were struggling with that?

891
00:37:29,316 --> 00:37:31,116
Speaker 7: They figured it out at a certain point, because like

892
00:37:31,156 --> 00:37:33,036
Speaker 7: they came in my room one night and I was

893
00:37:33,076 --> 00:37:35,996
Speaker 7: looking at like skin whitening cream on Tumblr, and I

894
00:37:36,116 --> 00:37:37,876
Speaker 7: was like I'd been caught red handed. And we had

895
00:37:37,916 --> 00:37:40,156
Speaker 7: like this really long conversation and they were just like

896
00:37:41,156 --> 00:37:41,716
Speaker 7: like what do you like?

897
00:37:41,836 --> 00:37:42,596
Speaker 8: What do you what is this?

898
00:37:42,836 --> 00:37:43,516
Speaker 4: Like, what do you mean?

899
00:37:44,036 --> 00:37:47,396
Speaker 7: And I couldn't even really fully articulate like what I

900
00:37:47,556 --> 00:37:49,196
Speaker 7: was feeling or was wrong, because it was like so

901
00:37:49,396 --> 00:37:53,076
Speaker 7: shameful and so big. But they had, Yeah, they knew,

902
00:37:53,596 --> 00:37:55,556
Speaker 7: they knew that I was struggling socially, and but the

903
00:37:55,596 --> 00:37:56,796
Speaker 7: thing that they just kept saying to me was like,

904
00:37:56,836 --> 00:37:58,236
Speaker 7: when you get to college, it's going to be different,

905
00:37:58,276 --> 00:38:00,076
Speaker 7: Like I just just please get through high school, like

906
00:38:00,156 --> 00:38:02,556
Speaker 7: we know it's so bad, but I promise you when

907
00:38:02,596 --> 00:38:03,596
Speaker 7: you get to college it'll be different.

908
00:38:03,596 --> 00:38:03,836
Speaker 1: And it was.

909
00:38:03,916 --> 00:38:05,636
Speaker 8: It was immediately different. It was immediately so much better.

910
00:38:05,636 --> 00:38:07,916
Speaker 1: I don't know why that is the case, but it's

911
00:38:07,956 --> 00:38:09,916
Speaker 1: so it's night and day.

912
00:38:10,076 --> 00:38:12,196
Speaker 7: Well, especially in my case, like going to music school,

913
00:38:12,236 --> 00:38:15,036
Speaker 7: the things that it was nothing was more heavily rewarded

914
00:38:15,076 --> 00:38:16,996
Speaker 7: in music school than being different, like whatever made.

915
00:38:16,876 --> 00:38:19,396
Speaker 1: Oh your liabilities throughout high school. All a sudden it

916
00:38:19,436 --> 00:38:23,236
Speaker 1: become like like like the thing to like lean into. Yeah,

917
00:38:23,316 --> 00:38:25,396
Speaker 1: I don't know what flips I mean.

918
00:38:25,716 --> 00:38:27,836
Speaker 7: I just remember like all the kids who were like

919
00:38:27,876 --> 00:38:30,276
Speaker 7: closeted gay kids in high school that came to music school,

920
00:38:30,316 --> 00:38:32,836
Speaker 7: they were out and proud and found community immediately. All

921
00:38:32,836 --> 00:38:35,196
Speaker 7: the kids whore ethnic minorities immediately it felt like it

922
00:38:35,316 --> 00:38:36,916
Speaker 7: was well a little bit safer.

923
00:38:37,036 --> 00:38:38,476
Speaker 8: Some people had different experiences than others.

924
00:38:38,516 --> 00:38:40,476
Speaker 7: I went to USC, so outside of the bubble of

925
00:38:40,556 --> 00:38:43,396
Speaker 7: music school, it was not always safe. But yeah, it

926
00:38:43,476 --> 00:38:45,156
Speaker 7: was like and then like even just like on a

927
00:38:45,356 --> 00:38:48,716
Speaker 7: very simple level, like how you dressed, like I was

928
00:38:48,796 --> 00:38:50,996
Speaker 7: like normcore in the way that I dressed in music school,

929
00:38:51,036 --> 00:38:53,516
Speaker 7: like I was dressing like boring, and all the kid

930
00:38:53,636 --> 00:38:55,116
Speaker 7: was like a competition of who could wear the most

931
00:38:55,156 --> 00:38:55,916
Speaker 7: eccentric clothing.

932
00:38:55,956 --> 00:38:57,956
Speaker 8: It was like these are things I would never dreamed

933
00:38:57,996 --> 00:38:59,036
Speaker 8: of when I was a teenager.

934
00:38:59,116 --> 00:39:00,716
Speaker 7: But all of a sudden, you get to college and

935
00:39:00,756 --> 00:39:03,956
Speaker 7: it's like, oh, you're supposed to be as yourself as possible.

936
00:39:03,996 --> 00:39:05,636
Speaker 8: That is your ticket to success.

937
00:39:05,876 --> 00:39:08,076
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great. It's such a great. It's

938
00:39:08,116 --> 00:39:10,356
Speaker 1: like the most underrated part of college is that part

939
00:39:10,396 --> 00:39:12,036
Speaker 1: of it, the deconditioning that happens.

940
00:39:12,196 --> 00:39:12,836
Speaker 8: Yeah, beautiful.

941
00:39:13,716 --> 00:39:18,676
Speaker 1: Was there an inciting incident to the skin lightning cream?

942
00:39:19,076 --> 00:39:19,796
Speaker 8: No, I don't think so.

943
00:39:19,996 --> 00:39:22,116
Speaker 7: It was just like I was just on Tumblr, which

944
00:39:22,156 --> 00:39:24,916
Speaker 7: is like, it's funny now because like now TikTok is

945
00:39:24,956 --> 00:39:26,916
Speaker 7: the thing that all the teenagers are on, and they're

946
00:39:26,956 --> 00:39:29,876
Speaker 7: just rehashing a lot of the same kind of bs

947
00:39:30,156 --> 00:39:33,796
Speaker 7: that was happening on Tumblr. And I'm sure I just

948
00:39:33,836 --> 00:39:35,436
Speaker 7: went down like a rabbit hole in the same way

949
00:39:35,476 --> 00:39:37,436
Speaker 7: that you can go down like eating disorder rabbit holes

950
00:39:37,516 --> 00:39:39,556
Speaker 7: or like you know, people get radicalized to be like

951
00:39:39,756 --> 00:39:42,476
Speaker 7: racist or whatever on other platforms, Like you just get

952
00:39:42,876 --> 00:39:46,196
Speaker 7: you start looking at certain images and then the algorithm

953
00:39:46,276 --> 00:39:48,356
Speaker 7: just feeds you more of it. And I don't think

954
00:39:48,356 --> 00:39:49,916
Speaker 7: I was ever serious about it, Like I don't think

955
00:39:49,916 --> 00:39:52,396
Speaker 7: I ever was gonna meaningfully change what I look like.

956
00:39:52,436 --> 00:39:54,476
Speaker 8: But I just was like I was like, I didn't

957
00:39:54,476 --> 00:39:55,476
Speaker 8: know this was the thing that people did.

958
00:39:55,756 --> 00:39:57,716
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it turns out that there were people more

959
00:39:57,796 --> 00:39:59,676
Speaker 7: desperate than I was who were like really trying to

960
00:39:59,716 --> 00:40:00,516
Speaker 7: erase who they were.

961
00:40:01,276 --> 00:40:02,876
Speaker 8: And it made me really sad more than anything.

962
00:40:03,036 --> 00:40:06,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, so sad. There's a song on you first, some

963
00:40:06,436 --> 00:40:09,716
Speaker 1: white boy that I feel like dovetails nice when where

964
00:40:09,796 --> 00:40:13,516
Speaker 1: we're at in this conversation, would you would you mind

965
00:40:13,516 --> 00:40:22,836
Speaker 1: playing some little plane or some of it comfortable? M m.

966
00:40:25,196 --> 00:40:36,156
Speaker 2: M oh. My hair smells like smoke. Something's burning. I

967
00:40:36,436 --> 00:40:41,076
Speaker 2: don't know what it is. I won't laugh, you dumb

968
00:40:41,196 --> 00:40:53,156
Speaker 2: ass chokes waite boy. I don't know you anything. I

969
00:40:53,436 --> 00:40:58,636
Speaker 2: am learning not to sing for you. The cage is

970
00:40:59,076 --> 00:41:10,956
Speaker 2: not my Zulus, white boy, you still got a great

971
00:41:11,276 --> 00:41:18,356
Speaker 2: barn Me sore the h.

972
00:41:19,916 --> 00:41:27,956
Speaker 4: And God bring me to my knee the first and

973
00:41:29,676 --> 00:41:35,236
Speaker 4: DEVI leading if ire WoT you ask me to be?

974
00:41:36,596 --> 00:41:36,796
Speaker 5: Boy?

975
00:41:37,956 --> 00:41:42,796
Speaker 4: Boy? Will make of me?

976
00:41:56,876 --> 00:42:06,476
Speaker 2: Passion play almost biblical? Why girl rives, I turn invisible?

977
00:42:06,796 --> 00:42:07,636
Speaker 8: I don't like.

978
00:42:09,156 --> 00:42:09,716
Speaker 2: Who I am?

979
00:42:10,316 --> 00:42:12,596
Speaker 4: The white boy.

980
00:42:16,516 --> 00:42:23,956
Speaker 2: Trance Stay, You're a hypnotic twillow my watch, my voice

981
00:42:24,076 --> 00:42:25,516
Speaker 2: shop the autive?

982
00:42:26,436 --> 00:42:27,556
Speaker 4: How to lie?

983
00:42:28,876 --> 00:42:30,396
Speaker 9: Who are you?

984
00:42:31,356 --> 00:42:32,116
Speaker 5: What by?

985
00:42:37,676 --> 00:42:48,636
Speaker 4: You still got a great boy? Me sore Di and

986
00:42:49,196 --> 00:42:50,676
Speaker 4: God bring me to.

987
00:42:50,956 --> 00:42:51,756
Speaker 5: My name.

988
00:42:55,916 --> 00:43:02,196
Speaker 4: First and down. If I her believe, if I would

989
00:43:02,316 --> 00:43:11,596
Speaker 4: you ask me to be boy boy will make of me.

990
00:43:31,796 --> 00:43:32,916
Speaker 5: You still.

991
00:43:34,196 --> 00:43:47,036
Speaker 4: Out of a good uh sweet? And the girl bring

992
00:43:47,236 --> 00:43:53,356
Speaker 4: me to my name you last?

993
00:43:55,476 --> 00:44:00,756
Speaker 5: If I believe, if Ian would you last me to

994
00:44:00,956 --> 00:44:08,676
Speaker 5: be my boy, will make of me?

995
00:44:16,596 --> 00:44:22,716
Speaker 4: William Ma me, William.

996
00:44:22,396 --> 00:44:23,676
Speaker 2: Ma, go me.

997
00:44:40,796 --> 00:44:45,996
Speaker 1: Gorgeous. But it's like, where did you learn? It feels

998
00:44:46,036 --> 00:44:49,396
Speaker 1: like you're breaking rules, Like how do you make a

999
00:44:49,476 --> 00:44:55,156
Speaker 1: song of that gorgeous? And then it's like and then

1000
00:44:55,236 --> 00:44:59,716
Speaker 1: get the the gumption for the tax to be like

1001
00:44:59,796 --> 00:45:02,116
Speaker 1: white boy. It's like it's it's it's not. No, it's not.

1002
00:45:02,276 --> 00:45:03,636
Speaker 1: I don't think people are supposed to do that. I

1003
00:45:04,556 --> 00:45:06,356
Speaker 1: thought to do it, but how the funk do you

1004
00:45:06,476 --> 00:45:06,636
Speaker 1: do that?

1005
00:45:06,876 --> 00:45:08,356
Speaker 7: That's what I felt like when I wrote it, because

1006
00:45:08,356 --> 00:45:11,716
Speaker 7: I wrote almost twenty and it was the first song

1007
00:45:11,796 --> 00:45:13,276
Speaker 7: I ever wrote that. I felt like I was the

1008
00:45:13,356 --> 00:45:16,716
Speaker 7: only person who could have written it, And in the

1009
00:45:16,796 --> 00:45:19,156
Speaker 7: immediate aftermath of writing it, I was like, surely I

1010
00:45:19,196 --> 00:45:21,756
Speaker 7: can never play this live, Like this is crazy. This

1011
00:45:21,876 --> 00:45:23,636
Speaker 7: is not a song that's meant to see the light

1012
00:45:23,676 --> 00:45:26,756
Speaker 7: of day. And I but I think I spent like

1013
00:45:26,796 --> 00:45:28,596
Speaker 7: two months sitting on it, not showing it to anybody,

1014
00:45:28,756 --> 00:45:30,796
Speaker 7: and then I came home for winter break and I

1015
00:45:30,836 --> 00:45:32,756
Speaker 7: played it for my mom and she was like, whoa,

1016
00:45:33,596 --> 00:45:36,196
Speaker 7: you have to share that with people? And I was

1017
00:45:36,276 --> 00:45:39,076
Speaker 7: like yeah, yes, And then I started playing it at

1018
00:45:39,076 --> 00:45:42,196
Speaker 7: shows and it ended up being the song that led

1019
00:45:42,236 --> 00:45:46,356
Speaker 7: me to my team because my first manager she sent

1020
00:45:46,436 --> 00:45:48,196
Speaker 7: me like a cold email asking me to play a show.

1021
00:45:48,636 --> 00:45:50,916
Speaker 7: I said that I would do it, and I played

1022
00:45:50,956 --> 00:45:54,156
Speaker 7: this song among others and she filmed it and put

1023
00:45:54,156 --> 00:45:55,076
Speaker 7: it on her Instagram.

1024
00:45:54,796 --> 00:45:56,676
Speaker 1: Story like it just a show, just like a private

1025
00:45:56,916 --> 00:45:57,316
Speaker 1: or was it?

1026
00:45:57,636 --> 00:45:58,716
Speaker 8: It was like at this.

1027
00:45:58,876 --> 00:46:01,756
Speaker 7: Little space in West Hollywood that she was renting at

1028
00:46:01,756 --> 00:46:03,396
Speaker 7: the time, and like it was me and a couple

1029
00:46:03,476 --> 00:46:05,436
Speaker 7: other artists, and her original ask was like can you

1030
00:46:05,476 --> 00:46:07,596
Speaker 7: bring twenty to twenty five people? And I was like no,

1031
00:46:08,236 --> 00:46:09,916
Speaker 7: She's like can you bring And I was like, yeah,

1032
00:46:09,916 --> 00:46:11,796
Speaker 7: I bet I can bring three. And I thought I

1033
00:46:11,796 --> 00:46:13,676
Speaker 7: would bring my mom and my little brother and then

1034
00:46:13,716 --> 00:46:15,956
Speaker 7: a friend from school. Now my friends from school came

1035
00:46:15,996 --> 00:46:17,556
Speaker 7: and my little brother had homework, so it was just

1036
00:46:17,636 --> 00:46:21,236
Speaker 7: my mom and the other artists had brought whatever their

1037
00:46:21,276 --> 00:46:23,436
Speaker 7: handful of people were. And after I finished, I just

1038
00:46:23,516 --> 00:46:26,476
Speaker 7: like ran out because I was like, I didn't bring anybody.

1039
00:46:26,556 --> 00:46:28,996
Speaker 7: I failed, I flopped and she tried to stop me.

1040
00:46:29,076 --> 00:46:30,556
Speaker 8: She's like that was incredible, and I was like, yeah, whatever,

1041
00:46:30,596 --> 00:46:32,036
Speaker 8: cause I didn't recognize her. I didn't know who she was.

1042
00:46:32,116 --> 00:46:34,036
Speaker 7: I was like, I just blew her off and I

1043
00:46:34,236 --> 00:46:37,196
Speaker 7: left and I went home thinking that I was gonna quit.

1044
00:46:37,396 --> 00:46:38,996
Speaker 7: I was like, I ain't do this anymore, Like I

1045
00:46:39,036 --> 00:46:40,676
Speaker 7: can't keep playing shows to no one, like it just

1046
00:46:40,716 --> 00:46:44,356
Speaker 7: feels insane. And but she had filmed me and put

1047
00:46:44,356 --> 00:46:47,876
Speaker 7: it on her Instagram story and within seconds of posting it, Rocky,

1048
00:46:47,916 --> 00:46:50,076
Speaker 7: the man who ended up producing my first album, Massagarin,

1049
00:46:50,156 --> 00:46:50,836
Speaker 7: was like, who is that?

1050
00:46:51,156 --> 00:46:53,796
Speaker 8: What is she singing? What is going on? And she

1051
00:46:53,956 --> 00:46:55,356
Speaker 8: was like do you want to meet her? Like we can.

1052
00:46:55,476 --> 00:46:57,556
Speaker 7: So she ended up facilitating a meeting for us and

1053
00:46:58,196 --> 00:47:00,076
Speaker 7: have we had our first session, and in my first

1054
00:47:00,116 --> 00:47:02,236
Speaker 7: our first session together, I wrote my song Adam's Ribs,

1055
00:47:03,316 --> 00:47:05,196
Speaker 7: and then we made another session right after that when

1056
00:47:05,196 --> 00:47:06,396
Speaker 7: I wrote starting to Get to You, and it was

1057
00:47:06,476 --> 00:47:08,716
Speaker 7: just like we just immediately clicked creatively.

1058
00:47:08,796 --> 00:47:09,916
Speaker 8: But it was because of white Boy.

1059
00:47:09,996 --> 00:47:12,476
Speaker 7: He was like I just had never heard anything like

1060
00:47:12,516 --> 00:47:15,876
Speaker 7: it before, and like he's black and his wife is mixed,

1061
00:47:15,956 --> 00:47:17,676
Speaker 7: and he was like I just knew that, Like I

1062
00:47:17,716 --> 00:47:20,236
Speaker 7: could just see her story in her life, and like

1063
00:47:21,316 --> 00:47:23,156
Speaker 7: it was just so many there were just so many

1064
00:47:23,236 --> 00:47:25,316
Speaker 7: layers to it for him and then of course for me.

1065
00:47:26,116 --> 00:47:28,076
Speaker 8: But yeah, it felt like I wasn't allowed, like writing

1066
00:47:28,116 --> 00:47:28,996
Speaker 8: that song. It felt illegal.

1067
00:47:29,596 --> 00:47:32,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, because it's like I don't I mean

1068
00:47:32,716 --> 00:47:36,076
Speaker 1: maybe in the annals of songwriting history there, but it

1069
00:47:36,236 --> 00:47:38,076
Speaker 1: just it feels very unique, you know.

1070
00:47:38,516 --> 00:47:41,316
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I was recently watching the music video for

1071
00:47:41,436 --> 00:47:44,396
Speaker 7: it back, and the music video is also wild, Like

1072
00:47:44,516 --> 00:47:46,676
Speaker 7: I came up with this whole treatment of like cause

1073
00:47:46,676 --> 00:47:48,396
Speaker 7: the kind of the impetus for the song was I

1074
00:47:48,436 --> 00:47:51,716
Speaker 7: went to this party in college and I was introduced

1075
00:47:51,756 --> 00:47:54,356
Speaker 7: to this white boy alongside my white friend, and the

1076
00:47:54,436 --> 00:47:57,116
Speaker 7: boy basically completely ignored me and just talked to my friend.

1077
00:47:57,196 --> 00:47:58,436
Speaker 7: And I left the party after that cause I was

1078
00:47:58,476 --> 00:48:00,356
Speaker 7: like I can't. Yes, I was like, I can't be

1079
00:48:00,436 --> 00:48:02,036
Speaker 7: here anymore. So I was like, I want to recreate

1080
00:48:02,076 --> 00:48:04,236
Speaker 7: that scene in the video. So we did that, and

1081
00:48:04,276 --> 00:48:05,636
Speaker 7: then we also had a scene where we had some

1082
00:48:05,876 --> 00:48:10,356
Speaker 7: contemporary dancers and the end, one of the ending shots

1083
00:48:10,596 --> 00:48:13,676
Speaker 7: of the video is me standing in front of all

1084
00:48:13,716 --> 00:48:15,636
Speaker 7: of the white boys that we had cast as extras

1085
00:48:15,836 --> 00:48:17,716
Speaker 7: at the party, and it's just me singing the end

1086
00:48:17,756 --> 00:48:19,956
Speaker 7: of the song with them all standing behind me, stone faced,

1087
00:48:19,996 --> 00:48:22,716
Speaker 7: and I'm like, that was my first single when I

1088
00:48:22,796 --> 00:48:23,596
Speaker 7: was twenty.

1089
00:48:23,396 --> 00:48:27,236
Speaker 8: Two, Like that that's intense. Like I didn't know at

1090
00:48:27,276 --> 00:48:28,876
Speaker 8: the time. I was like, I'm just doing just following

1091
00:48:28,916 --> 00:48:30,396
Speaker 8: my bliss. I'm just like making my heart.

1092
00:48:30,796 --> 00:48:33,236
Speaker 7: But now five years later, like you know, I'm doing

1093
00:48:33,276 --> 00:48:34,796
Speaker 7: a roll out for another album and putting out this

1094
00:48:34,836 --> 00:48:37,756
Speaker 7: other music. I'm like, that was an intense way to start,

1095
00:48:37,876 --> 00:48:40,156
Speaker 7: and I'm so glad it is. It's how I did it,

1096
00:48:40,276 --> 00:48:42,036
Speaker 7: but it was it was crazy that that was my

1097
00:48:42,116 --> 00:48:42,516
Speaker 7: first thing.

1098
00:48:42,676 --> 00:48:44,716
Speaker 1: I'm glad you knew no better because it's like.

1099
00:48:44,876 --> 00:48:47,276
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's nothing, Like I just didn't think for even

1100
00:48:47,316 --> 00:48:49,756
Speaker 7: a second, Like I mean, I knew that it was

1101
00:48:49,876 --> 00:48:51,836
Speaker 7: like a I knew it showed my personality and it

1102
00:48:51,876 --> 00:48:53,236
Speaker 7: showed my style.

1103
00:48:53,356 --> 00:48:55,796
Speaker 8: But like I just look back now and I'm like, wow,

1104
00:48:55,916 --> 00:48:57,796
Speaker 8: Like I came out swinging, that's awesome.

1105
00:48:59,796 --> 00:49:02,476
Speaker 1: That is incredible. I feel like there's a lot like

1106
00:49:02,636 --> 00:49:05,276
Speaker 1: an underlining, I mean and not a lot, but that

1107
00:49:05,476 --> 00:49:08,236
Speaker 1: is like even in Savannah, like there is some there's

1108
00:49:08,276 --> 00:49:13,596
Speaker 1: some like antagonism going on, you know, like, and it's

1109
00:49:13,676 --> 00:49:17,156
Speaker 1: like it is a really cool feature of your songwriting,

1110
00:49:17,196 --> 00:49:17,356
Speaker 1: you know.

1111
00:49:17,676 --> 00:49:20,516
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I'm not like a I wouldn't say

1112
00:49:20,516 --> 00:49:23,316
Speaker 7: I'm not a confrontational person. I'm very capable of doing confrontation.

1113
00:49:23,596 --> 00:49:25,396
Speaker 7: It's obviously not something I relish, I don't know that

1114
00:49:25,436 --> 00:49:27,916
Speaker 7: anyone does, but something I'm capable of. But I feel

1115
00:49:27,956 --> 00:49:32,556
Speaker 7: like the safest place for me to express those confrontational

1116
00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:35,276
Speaker 7: feelings isn't a song, because in addition to the fact

1117
00:49:35,276 --> 00:49:38,196
Speaker 7: that I'm not speaking directly to anyone, like I can

1118
00:49:38,236 --> 00:49:41,876
Speaker 7: collect my thoughts, I can create an argument that's more

1119
00:49:41,996 --> 00:49:44,996
Speaker 7: concise and like I can deliver. I can think exactly

1120
00:49:45,036 --> 00:49:46,596
Speaker 7: about what I want to say, and I can say it,

1121
00:49:46,636 --> 00:49:47,996
Speaker 7: and then that can be the last word and I

1122
00:49:48,076 --> 00:49:50,316
Speaker 7: can feel like I've said my piece and I don't

1123
00:49:50,316 --> 00:49:52,276
Speaker 7: need to like get a response back about it.

1124
00:49:52,516 --> 00:49:55,036
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Alicia Keys is a love Lisha Keys,

1125
00:49:55,316 --> 00:49:58,996
Speaker 1: big fan Oflicia Keys. But like your songwriting doesn't really feel.

1126
00:49:58,836 --> 00:50:00,516
Speaker 8: Like I diverged a lot since I was a kid.

1127
00:50:00,636 --> 00:50:04,356
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is different. You did write more like that,

1128
00:50:04,596 --> 00:50:05,476
Speaker 1: I would say, So, I.

1129
00:50:05,516 --> 00:50:07,956
Speaker 7: Mean, like I was, you know, a little kid, so

1130
00:50:08,076 --> 00:50:10,716
Speaker 7: like I wasn't writing anything like that profound, but I

1131
00:50:10,836 --> 00:50:12,756
Speaker 7: was definitely trying to sound like her, and I was

1132
00:50:12,836 --> 00:50:17,716
Speaker 7: everything was on piano, and I would say like as

1133
00:50:17,756 --> 00:50:20,356
Speaker 7: I've gotten older, like I mean, Phoebe Bridges was like

1134
00:50:20,396 --> 00:50:23,156
Speaker 7: a big, big influence on me, especially in college when

1135
00:50:23,196 --> 00:50:25,756
Speaker 7: I first found for music, And like, my favorite band

1136
00:50:25,876 --> 00:50:27,836
Speaker 7: is this band Muna, who also went to USC and

1137
00:50:27,916 --> 00:50:31,196
Speaker 7: two of the members were in my program, and I

1138
00:50:31,316 --> 00:50:34,916
Speaker 7: definitely ama, they're like a they're a trio there. It's

1139
00:50:34,956 --> 00:50:38,076
Speaker 7: like it's basically just pop music, but it's like len yes, yes,

1140
00:50:39,036 --> 00:50:41,756
Speaker 7: And I feel like I definitely am emulating them a lot.

1141
00:50:42,076 --> 00:50:44,876
Speaker 7: And Sarah Burrellis was really big for me for a while.

1142
00:50:45,556 --> 00:50:47,436
Speaker 7: John Mayer was big for me a while for a while.

1143
00:50:47,556 --> 00:50:50,076
Speaker 7: Bonie Ver has is and always has been really big.

1144
00:50:51,796 --> 00:50:52,556
Speaker 8: Casey Muskraves.

1145
00:50:52,556 --> 00:50:54,196
Speaker 7: There's so many people who have kind of warmed their

1146
00:50:54,236 --> 00:50:56,836
Speaker 7: way in, but one of the biggest things Rocky taught

1147
00:50:56,876 --> 00:50:59,236
Speaker 7: me was like trying to sound like myself as opposed

1148
00:50:59,236 --> 00:51:01,076
Speaker 7: to constantly trying to sound like other people.

1149
00:51:01,356 --> 00:51:03,236
Speaker 1: Like any of those people, yeah, like they're like I.

1150
00:51:03,236 --> 00:51:05,636
Speaker 7: Feel like you can hear them and the influences are there,

1151
00:51:06,036 --> 00:51:08,836
Speaker 7: but I feel like I've really started to find the

1152
00:51:09,476 --> 00:51:13,556
Speaker 7: McCrae like toolbox and the Jensen McCrae universe, and I

1153
00:51:13,596 --> 00:51:15,436
Speaker 7: feel like I'm writing in there all the time.

1154
00:51:15,636 --> 00:51:17,716
Speaker 1: Is it anything you can enumerate or is it kind

1155
00:51:17,716 --> 00:51:18,636
Speaker 1: of just more of a feel.

1156
00:51:19,036 --> 00:51:19,276
Speaker 4: Well.

1157
00:51:19,516 --> 00:51:22,556
Speaker 7: I think obviously, lyrics are paramount. I think one of

1158
00:51:22,556 --> 00:51:24,196
Speaker 7: the biggest pieces of advice I give to people with

1159
00:51:24,316 --> 00:51:26,356
Speaker 7: songwriting is that your lyrics have to sound good when

1160
00:51:26,396 --> 00:51:28,876
Speaker 7: spoken without any melody or production, and if you don't,

1161
00:51:28,876 --> 00:51:30,236
Speaker 7: if it doesn't sound good as a poem, you have

1162
00:51:30,316 --> 00:51:32,716
Speaker 7: to go back and try again. I think obviously use

1163
00:51:32,756 --> 00:51:35,116
Speaker 7: a lot of literary references, a lot of biblical references.

1164
00:51:35,756 --> 00:51:36,996
Speaker 1: Where does that stuff come from?

1165
00:51:37,516 --> 00:51:39,716
Speaker 8: Honestly, the biblical references, I don't know. Because my mom

1166
00:51:39,796 --> 00:51:40,236
Speaker 8: is Jewish.

1167
00:51:40,356 --> 00:51:42,316
Speaker 7: My dad converted to Judaism before I was born, and

1168
00:51:42,396 --> 00:51:43,836
Speaker 7: like I went to Jewish school for a while, and

1169
00:51:43,876 --> 00:51:46,036
Speaker 7: then after we left that school we kind of stopped practicing.

1170
00:51:46,116 --> 00:51:48,396
Speaker 7: So there's like not really been a big religious presence

1171
00:51:48,436 --> 00:51:51,276
Speaker 7: in my life. But I just find the stories in

1172
00:51:51,396 --> 00:51:55,476
Speaker 7: the Bible to be really compelling and evocative in educational Like,

1173
00:51:55,556 --> 00:52:00,436
Speaker 7: I think they're really valuable as stories, And then I

1174
00:52:00,516 --> 00:52:03,036
Speaker 7: mean as far as like literary references like I just

1175
00:52:03,076 --> 00:52:05,636
Speaker 7: I'm a huge reader, like I just love I love

1176
00:52:05,716 --> 00:52:08,436
Speaker 7: my I love my songs to feel like either they

1177
00:52:08,436 --> 00:52:10,236
Speaker 7: could they've been lift from books, or that they could

1178
00:52:10,276 --> 00:52:13,556
Speaker 7: be set alongside scenes from books, and I really want.

1179
00:52:13,676 --> 00:52:16,276
Speaker 7: I fangirl hardest when an author follows me on Instagram

1180
00:52:16,396 --> 00:52:18,116
Speaker 7: way more than any other, like famous.

1181
00:52:17,836 --> 00:52:20,796
Speaker 1: Person, who are some of your ocean.

1182
00:52:20,556 --> 00:52:23,276
Speaker 8: Vuang He followed me a while ago and sent me

1183
00:52:23,316 --> 00:52:25,276
Speaker 8: a copy of his new book that was really huge.

1184
00:52:25,516 --> 00:52:28,276
Speaker 8: Carmen Maria Machado followed me right after I read her

1185
00:52:28,316 --> 00:52:30,236
Speaker 8: book In the dream House, which was like one of

1186
00:52:30,276 --> 00:52:33,196
Speaker 8: the most important books I've ever read. That really I

1187
00:52:33,316 --> 00:52:33,996
Speaker 8: was gagged about that.

1188
00:52:34,156 --> 00:52:36,636
Speaker 7: Probably the thing that was the most emotional was when

1189
00:52:36,676 --> 00:52:38,516
Speaker 7: I was a teenager, I read a lot of John Green,

1190
00:52:38,636 --> 00:52:40,756
Speaker 7: the young adult author who wrote that book The Fallennar Stars,

1191
00:52:41,356 --> 00:52:43,676
Speaker 7: and he followed me on Instagram recently, I think because

1192
00:52:43,756 --> 00:52:46,756
Speaker 7: I mentioned him on another podcast and that was like

1193
00:52:47,356 --> 00:52:49,836
Speaker 7: I freaked out about that, and I sent him a

1194
00:52:49,876 --> 00:52:51,476
Speaker 7: really long I sent him a message that was so

1195
00:52:51,556 --> 00:52:53,116
Speaker 7: long Instagram wouln't let me send it, so I had

1196
00:52:53,156 --> 00:52:53,836
Speaker 7: to edit it down.

1197
00:52:56,036 --> 00:53:01,556
Speaker 8: That's like the making music that authors love is probably

1198
00:53:01,636 --> 00:53:03,956
Speaker 8: my genre, Like making music that authors want to put

1199
00:53:03,956 --> 00:53:05,956
Speaker 8: on their playlists while they're working on their books. That's

1200
00:53:05,996 --> 00:53:06,436
Speaker 8: my dream.

1201
00:53:06,636 --> 00:53:06,876
Speaker 1: Wow.

1202
00:53:07,276 --> 00:53:08,756
Speaker 7: Like part of what I've been setting out to do

1203
00:53:08,956 --> 00:53:10,996
Speaker 7: is I want to bring together the world of like

1204
00:53:11,916 --> 00:53:15,716
Speaker 7: the great songwriters whose songs are independent of who's singing them,

1205
00:53:15,956 --> 00:53:17,876
Speaker 7: just work, and then the great vocalists who they could

1206
00:53:17,876 --> 00:53:19,876
Speaker 7: sing the phone book like it would still sound great.

1207
00:53:19,876 --> 00:53:22,556
Speaker 7: I'm like, in an ideal world, I would be able to.

1208
00:53:22,916 --> 00:53:24,596
Speaker 7: I want to be excellent at both of them, Like

1209
00:53:24,676 --> 00:53:26,796
Speaker 7: I really want I want my songs to stand alone

1210
00:53:26,836 --> 00:53:28,676
Speaker 7: and for my voice to stand alone, in for both

1211
00:53:28,716 --> 00:53:31,676
Speaker 7: those things together to be this extra powerful thing.

1212
00:53:32,036 --> 00:53:33,316
Speaker 1: Do you ever do covers? Give her?

1213
00:53:33,636 --> 00:53:35,476
Speaker 8: Sometimes? Yeah, I play cover. I do covers at most

1214
00:53:35,476 --> 00:53:36,996
Speaker 8: of my shows I've been doing.

1215
00:53:37,796 --> 00:53:39,956
Speaker 7: Taylor Swift is obviously another huge influence on me, and

1216
00:53:39,956 --> 00:53:42,116
Speaker 7: I've been doing a cover of a song from her

1217
00:53:42,276 --> 00:53:44,156
Speaker 7: most recent album at like all my shows.

1218
00:53:44,516 --> 00:53:46,156
Speaker 1: What do you hear in Taylor's music?

1219
00:53:46,916 --> 00:53:48,276
Speaker 8: I mean, where do I even start?

1220
00:53:48,436 --> 00:53:53,596
Speaker 7: I love her so much, Like she is so good

1221
00:53:53,796 --> 00:53:57,276
Speaker 7: with narrative, Like she obviously started as a country artist

1222
00:53:57,356 --> 00:53:59,916
Speaker 7: and writer, and like so much of country music is

1223
00:53:59,996 --> 00:54:03,236
Speaker 7: just story, and like that carries through even.

1224
00:54:03,076 --> 00:54:04,756
Speaker 8: As she's genre shape shifted.

1225
00:54:06,236 --> 00:54:10,676
Speaker 7: She's not afraid of like vocabular which like to sometimes

1226
00:54:10,756 --> 00:54:13,156
Speaker 7: I'll say, like sometimes I can read clunky, like it

1227
00:54:13,196 --> 00:54:15,636
Speaker 7: doesn't always work, But I just love like that she

1228
00:54:15,916 --> 00:54:18,156
Speaker 7: is willing to go there and like she's not trying

1229
00:54:18,196 --> 00:54:20,556
Speaker 7: to dumb her She's never had dumb herself down for anybody.

1230
00:54:21,036 --> 00:54:24,956
Speaker 7: I love how genre expansive she is. And there's just

1231
00:54:25,036 --> 00:54:29,236
Speaker 7: so many like single lines that just like haunt me forever.

1232
00:54:29,436 --> 00:54:31,436
Speaker 7: Like one of my favorites is off of Midnights on

1233
00:54:31,436 --> 00:54:32,836
Speaker 7: what I could have shown have and she says, give

1234
00:54:32,876 --> 00:54:33,756
Speaker 7: me back my girlhood.

1235
00:54:33,756 --> 00:54:35,996
Speaker 8: It was mine first. Like that's like one of the best.

1236
00:54:36,116 --> 00:54:37,476
Speaker 7: Like I am mad when I heard that. I was like,

1237
00:54:37,516 --> 00:54:39,036
Speaker 7: I can't believe I didn't write that, Like that's like

1238
00:54:39,156 --> 00:54:42,716
Speaker 7: one of the best. That's so good, And like there's

1239
00:54:42,756 --> 00:54:45,596
Speaker 7: a million other ones, but like there's just I'm so

1240
00:54:45,716 --> 00:54:47,516
Speaker 7: impressed with like Speak Now, which was her album that

1241
00:54:47,556 --> 00:54:48,956
Speaker 7: she wrote entirely by herself.

1242
00:54:48,676 --> 00:54:49,876
Speaker 8: When she was like nineteen years old.

1243
00:54:51,356 --> 00:54:53,396
Speaker 7: It's just incredible, like the and the and the it's

1244
00:54:53,476 --> 00:54:55,396
Speaker 7: the volume as well, because that's the thing that I

1245
00:54:55,476 --> 00:54:57,476
Speaker 7: pride myself on, is my volume like I'm like, I

1246
00:54:57,516 --> 00:54:59,556
Speaker 7: want to just keep creating, whether it's songs, whether it's

1247
00:54:59,556 --> 00:55:01,316
Speaker 7: the other types of writing that I like to do.

1248
00:55:01,556 --> 00:55:03,396
Speaker 7: Like I want to be a person who's just always

1249
00:55:03,556 --> 00:55:05,436
Speaker 7: having a high volume of output, and she is that,

1250
00:55:05,916 --> 00:55:08,196
Speaker 7: and it's just astonishing that she manages to keep doing it.

1251
00:55:08,516 --> 00:55:12,436
Speaker 1: Wow, have you the pace that you've set for yourself

1252
00:55:12,836 --> 00:55:15,796
Speaker 1: so far you feel like you've been able to keep it.

1253
00:55:16,556 --> 00:55:18,476
Speaker 7: I definitely am bummed that I haven't written as much

1254
00:55:18,516 --> 00:55:21,836
Speaker 7: this year, like because of you know, partly because of

1255
00:55:21,876 --> 00:55:23,636
Speaker 7: the album coming out and the touring, but also because

1256
00:55:23,676 --> 00:55:25,636
Speaker 7: like obviously this year started with the fires in LA

1257
00:55:25,676 --> 00:55:28,796
Speaker 7: and that was like really disruptive to everyone's life in

1258
00:55:28,916 --> 00:55:30,756
Speaker 7: a million different ways, and especially I feel like as

1259
00:55:30,756 --> 00:55:32,596
Speaker 7: a creative it was like I mean I wrote a

1260
00:55:32,636 --> 00:55:35,396
Speaker 7: song about the fires as they were happening, but like

1261
00:55:36,396 --> 00:55:39,716
Speaker 7: it definitely like it tanked my mental health for a while,

1262
00:55:39,796 --> 00:55:43,236
Speaker 7: and like I didn't feel as productive and creative. And

1263
00:55:43,276 --> 00:55:45,556
Speaker 7: then obviously, like politically, the world is also like really

1264
00:55:45,636 --> 00:55:48,036
Speaker 7: in America specifically, is really in a lot of turmoil,

1265
00:55:48,116 --> 00:55:50,716
Speaker 7: and like I've written about that to an extent, but

1266
00:55:50,796 --> 00:55:52,876
Speaker 7: that also makes it hard to like tap into the

1267
00:55:52,956 --> 00:55:56,876
Speaker 7: creative life work sometimes. And it's weird because I've never

1268
00:55:56,916 --> 00:55:58,916
Speaker 7: been a person who's ever struggled with creative blocks, and

1269
00:55:58,956 --> 00:56:01,236
Speaker 7: I don't even think of myself as experiencing writer's block.

1270
00:56:01,236 --> 00:56:03,156
Speaker 7: I just think I'm not in a season of high

1271
00:56:03,196 --> 00:56:06,276
Speaker 7: output right now, and I think that's like not that crazy,

1272
00:56:06,476 --> 00:56:08,316
Speaker 7: Like I have made so much over so many years,

1273
00:56:08,356 --> 00:56:10,636
Speaker 7: and it's like I just am I really trust that

1274
00:56:10,716 --> 00:56:12,076
Speaker 7: it's going to come back. And I have written a

1275
00:56:12,116 --> 00:56:14,036
Speaker 7: couple songs I love in the last couple of months,

1276
00:56:14,396 --> 00:56:16,076
Speaker 7: but it's just not at the same clip.

1277
00:56:16,596 --> 00:56:20,436
Speaker 1: Are you goal oriented? Yes, yes, I want to assume.

1278
00:56:20,236 --> 00:56:22,876
Speaker 7: But I mean I'm both goal and process oriented, Like

1279
00:56:22,916 --> 00:56:24,476
Speaker 7: I love the journey. But there's definitely a lot of

1280
00:56:24,516 --> 00:56:25,236
Speaker 7: stuff that I want to do.

1281
00:56:25,596 --> 00:56:26,356
Speaker 1: What are some of those?

1282
00:56:26,876 --> 00:56:28,716
Speaker 7: I love to win a Grammy, of course, I'd love

1283
00:56:28,756 --> 00:56:32,156
Speaker 7: to win a Grammy. I really want to publish a novel,

1284
00:56:32,876 --> 00:56:35,516
Speaker 7: really badly. I really want to get a screenplay that

1285
00:56:35,516 --> 00:56:36,836
Speaker 7: I've written produced.

1286
00:56:37,196 --> 00:56:37,836
Speaker 1: Have you written one?

1287
00:56:37,916 --> 00:56:38,636
Speaker 8: I've written a lot.

1288
00:56:39,116 --> 00:56:40,596
Speaker 7: I've written a lot of screenplays and a lot of

1289
00:56:40,636 --> 00:56:42,556
Speaker 7: novels and none of them have gone anywhere, but one

1290
00:56:42,636 --> 00:56:45,556
Speaker 7: day one of them will. And I also, I love

1291
00:56:45,756 --> 00:56:47,636
Speaker 7: I love to act I found I want to. I

1292
00:56:47,716 --> 00:56:49,276
Speaker 7: want to I want to do some acting.

1293
00:56:49,756 --> 00:56:52,156
Speaker 1: How did that escape you? I feel like you're I

1294
00:56:52,316 --> 00:56:53,556
Speaker 1: just didn't want to do it for.

1295
00:56:53,596 --> 00:56:54,556
Speaker 8: A really long time.

1296
00:56:54,876 --> 00:56:57,316
Speaker 7: Like I when I was a kid, I did musical

1297
00:56:57,356 --> 00:56:58,996
Speaker 7: theater and then when I stopped, I was like, I

1298
00:56:59,036 --> 00:57:00,956
Speaker 7: have the only reason I did musical theater was to sing,

1299
00:57:01,036 --> 00:57:03,396
Speaker 7: like I didn't care about the acting part. And then

1300
00:57:03,556 --> 00:57:06,356
Speaker 7: I never thought about it at all in high school

1301
00:57:06,436 --> 00:57:11,156
Speaker 7: or college really, And then when I started working with WMME,

1302
00:57:11,436 --> 00:57:12,916
Speaker 7: they were like, of course, like they're, you know, a

1303
00:57:12,996 --> 00:57:15,516
Speaker 7: huge agency, they represent everybody doing everything, and they were like, okay,

1304
00:57:15,556 --> 00:57:17,716
Speaker 7: so acting and I was like no, and they were

1305
00:57:17,756 --> 00:57:18,836
Speaker 7: like what do you what do you mean?

1306
00:57:18,916 --> 00:57:19,796
Speaker 8: And I was like I don't want to do that.

1307
00:57:19,836 --> 00:57:21,196
Speaker 8: And I'm like, well, we'll just send you some stuff.

1308
00:57:21,796 --> 00:57:23,956
Speaker 7: Have they sent you anything, Like, well, they said, in

1309
00:57:23,996 --> 00:57:26,196
Speaker 7: the last five years, they've sent me a couple of auditions.

1310
00:57:26,236 --> 00:57:28,036
Speaker 7: And when I when I first started receiving them, I

1311
00:57:28,116 --> 00:57:30,156
Speaker 7: did a bad job, like I would send them a

1312
00:57:30,236 --> 00:57:30,916
Speaker 7: not on purpose, but.

1313
00:57:33,196 --> 00:57:34,676
Speaker 8: You know, I was like I didn't know.

1314
00:57:34,796 --> 00:57:36,676
Speaker 7: I didn't know what it meant to like a script,

1315
00:57:36,876 --> 00:57:38,476
Speaker 7: Like I was just doing what I was told and

1316
00:57:38,556 --> 00:57:40,876
Speaker 7: like I remember like trying really hard at the auditions

1317
00:57:40,876 --> 00:57:42,676
Speaker 7: and then they wouldn't say anything to me about it.

1318
00:57:42,716 --> 00:57:44,636
Speaker 8: Afterward, and I was like, I don't think I did

1319
00:57:44,636 --> 00:57:48,356
Speaker 8: a good job. And then I started to get more

1320
00:57:48,396 --> 00:57:48,716
Speaker 8: into it.

1321
00:57:48,796 --> 00:57:51,116
Speaker 7: I started doing self tapes for other people and started

1322
00:57:51,156 --> 00:57:53,396
Speaker 7: to really enjoy that process. And then I got an

1323
00:57:53,396 --> 00:57:55,236
Speaker 7: audition after having done kind of a lot of self

1324
00:57:55,276 --> 00:57:56,276
Speaker 7: tapes for other people.

1325
00:57:56,556 --> 00:57:58,756
Speaker 1: And say, self tapes for other people that you would help, yeah.

1326
00:57:58,556 --> 00:58:00,796
Speaker 7: I would like read for them while they auditioned, And

1327
00:58:01,796 --> 00:58:03,476
Speaker 7: I did one after doing that a lot, and it

1328
00:58:03,556 --> 00:58:05,316
Speaker 7: was the first time my acting agent was like, hey,

1329
00:58:05,356 --> 00:58:07,956
Speaker 7: that was good, and I was like, not me being

1330
00:58:07,956 --> 00:58:08,516
Speaker 7: good at acting.

1331
00:58:09,156 --> 00:58:11,196
Speaker 8: And so then now when I get tapes, I.

1332
00:58:11,316 --> 00:58:13,956
Speaker 7: Like really enjoy doing them. It's really fun, Like I

1333
00:58:14,036 --> 00:58:16,676
Speaker 7: lose track of time. I just lose hours, like trying

1334
00:58:16,756 --> 00:58:20,396
Speaker 7: different things. And it's made me now want hopefully like

1335
00:58:20,476 --> 00:58:21,716
Speaker 7: when I to get if I get one of my

1336
00:58:21,756 --> 00:58:23,196
Speaker 7: own scripts, made like I'd love to act in a

1337
00:58:23,236 --> 00:58:25,316
Speaker 7: movie that I write, which I never would have thought

1338
00:58:25,316 --> 00:58:26,956
Speaker 7: I would want to do before, but now I really want.

1339
00:58:26,876 --> 00:58:30,436
Speaker 1: To hold up you met Spike Lee, I did like that.

1340
00:58:32,156 --> 00:58:34,236
Speaker 1: I feel like, did you did you ask him any

1341
00:58:34,236 --> 00:58:39,716
Speaker 1: about anything. Did you pick like next question, did you

1342
00:58:39,756 --> 00:58:41,076
Speaker 1: ask him about? Did you pitch a movie?

1343
00:58:41,156 --> 00:58:41,956
Speaker 8: Did you ask Spikes?

1344
00:58:41,996 --> 00:58:42,196
Speaker 2: Great?

1345
00:58:42,236 --> 00:58:46,316
Speaker 7: Spike's been very supportive and why he just found my

1346
00:58:46,436 --> 00:58:49,236
Speaker 7: music online. He just like found He literally just started

1347
00:58:49,276 --> 00:58:52,996
Speaker 7: liking my posts on Instagram from a kid, baby, That's

1348
00:58:53,036 --> 00:58:54,876
Speaker 7: what I thought, but I don't know, Like it wasn't

1349
00:58:54,876 --> 00:58:56,716
Speaker 7: even one of my viral videos. He just like found

1350
00:58:56,956 --> 00:58:59,116
Speaker 7: he just found one of my songs and was just like,

1351
00:58:59,236 --> 00:59:00,796
Speaker 7: this is great, and I was like, thank you so much,

1352
00:59:00,836 --> 00:59:01,316
Speaker 7: appreciate it.

1353
00:59:01,396 --> 00:59:01,716
Speaker 1: I got.

1354
00:59:02,996 --> 00:59:03,796
Speaker 8: I get random.

1355
00:59:04,076 --> 00:59:06,116
Speaker 7: It's always the most random people, like I got, like

1356
00:59:06,196 --> 00:59:08,476
Speaker 7: Kristen Bell messaged me after I posted my song about

1357
00:59:08,476 --> 00:59:11,316
Speaker 7: the fires, and like Julia Roberts posted one of my

1358
00:59:11,396 --> 00:59:13,676
Speaker 7: songs on her Instagram. Creed like it's all these people.

1359
00:59:13,676 --> 00:59:15,676
Speaker 7: I'm like, I don't know how you're finding this stuff,

1360
00:59:15,756 --> 00:59:17,196
Speaker 7: but like so much love.

1361
00:59:18,076 --> 00:59:19,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, Spike's the coolest one.

1362
00:59:20,236 --> 00:59:21,916
Speaker 8: He's very cool. He's very very cool.

1363
00:59:22,076 --> 00:59:24,196
Speaker 1: And you know, he's like great in his own movies too,

1364
00:59:24,236 --> 00:59:25,916
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. He hasn't really been in

1365
00:59:25,996 --> 00:59:27,836
Speaker 1: one in a while, but he should get back in there.

1366
00:59:29,476 --> 00:59:30,196
Speaker 1: I agree with you.

1367
00:59:30,396 --> 00:59:32,156
Speaker 8: I agree with you, but that's like kind of I would.

1368
00:59:32,196 --> 00:59:34,756
Speaker 7: I love the idea of writing something and getting the

1369
00:59:34,796 --> 00:59:37,676
Speaker 7: opportunity to act it myself, which like because when I

1370
00:59:37,716 --> 00:59:39,796
Speaker 7: first started writing movies, people would be like, Oh, you

1371
00:59:39,916 --> 00:59:41,196
Speaker 7: want to play this part and I was like no.

1372
00:59:41,716 --> 00:59:44,076
Speaker 7: And then now when I'm writing things, I am often

1373
00:59:44,116 --> 00:59:45,196
Speaker 7: writing with myself in mind.

1374
00:59:45,356 --> 00:59:50,476
Speaker 1: Do any of those things feel like I guess music

1375
00:59:50,596 --> 00:59:51,436
Speaker 1: is probably takes?

1376
00:59:52,276 --> 00:59:53,316
Speaker 8: Yeah, he's number one.

1377
00:59:53,356 --> 00:59:56,116
Speaker 1: Number one. Does any of the other stuff feel like

1378
00:59:56,276 --> 00:59:59,356
Speaker 1: a distraction or does it feel like it feeds? Does

1379
00:59:59,436 --> 01:00:00,436
Speaker 1: each one feeds the other?

1380
01:00:00,636 --> 01:00:02,396
Speaker 7: And it all They definitely don't feed each other. I

1381
01:00:02,516 --> 01:00:04,596
Speaker 7: used to wonder if I was doing a disservice to

1382
01:00:04,676 --> 01:00:06,276
Speaker 7: myself by having all these other interests. But I had

1383
01:00:06,276 --> 01:00:09,596
Speaker 7: a professor my sophomore year of college who about that,

1384
01:00:09,716 --> 01:00:12,636
Speaker 7: because I was feeling very adrift and I was questioning

1385
01:00:12,676 --> 01:00:14,396
Speaker 7: my place in the program and I felt like everyone

1386
01:00:14,476 --> 01:00:17,556
Speaker 7: else with like eight slept breathed music, and I was like,

1387
01:00:17,676 --> 01:00:18,276
Speaker 7: how all this other.

1388
01:00:18,196 --> 01:00:18,956
Speaker 8: Stuff I really like?

1389
01:00:19,396 --> 01:00:20,716
Speaker 7: I was like, do you think I should give up

1390
01:00:20,916 --> 01:00:22,636
Speaker 7: on those things and just focus on music? And he

1391
01:00:22,756 --> 01:00:25,156
Speaker 7: was like, never make yourself small, Like you need to

1392
01:00:25,236 --> 01:00:27,556
Speaker 7: do everything that you're passionate about and everything that you're

1393
01:00:27,596 --> 01:00:29,396
Speaker 7: good at. Everything, like, do all of it and it

1394
01:00:29,476 --> 01:00:31,956
Speaker 7: will all be in service to each other. And I

1395
01:00:32,036 --> 01:00:33,676
Speaker 7: was like, Okay, well I got permission from my teacher,

1396
01:00:33,716 --> 01:00:34,556
Speaker 7: so I can keep doing it.

1397
01:00:34,956 --> 01:00:35,316
Speaker 8: And now.

1398
01:00:35,356 --> 01:00:36,996
Speaker 7: I mean, the thing that I often say is that

1399
01:00:37,156 --> 01:00:40,196
Speaker 7: like when I'm writing, Like sometimes i'll be writing, I'll

1400
01:00:40,236 --> 01:00:42,156
Speaker 7: write a line and I'll be like, is this a song?

1401
01:00:42,356 --> 01:00:43,916
Speaker 8: Is this a poem? Is this a line of dialogue

1402
01:00:43,956 --> 01:00:46,116
Speaker 8: in the screenplay? Is this like a passage in a novel?

1403
01:00:46,156 --> 01:00:48,836
Speaker 7: And Like, if I'm working on one thing and it

1404
01:00:48,836 --> 01:00:51,036
Speaker 7: feels like I'm getting stuck, I just pivot to another medium.

1405
01:00:51,156 --> 01:00:52,276
Speaker 7: And so for me, it's kind of the way that

1406
01:00:52,316 --> 01:00:54,116
Speaker 7: I've gotten out of writer's block is by having all

1407
01:00:54,156 --> 01:00:58,316
Speaker 7: of these different things that I enjoy writing. Is if

1408
01:00:58,396 --> 01:01:00,676
Speaker 7: anything ever starts to feel stagnant or like it's not working,

1409
01:01:00,716 --> 01:01:02,996
Speaker 7: I just switch to something else and immediately feels fresh.

1410
01:01:03,116 --> 01:01:05,996
Speaker 1: Who are some of your inspirations in terms of dialogue

1411
01:01:05,996 --> 01:01:08,156
Speaker 1: writers specifically, Well, my favorite.

1412
01:01:07,836 --> 01:01:09,316
Speaker 8: Book of all time is The Idiot by ELLEF.

1413
01:01:09,396 --> 01:01:12,156
Speaker 7: Batuman, which is about this girl who's a freshman at

1414
01:01:12,156 --> 01:01:14,876
Speaker 7: Harvard in nineteen ninety five. There's very little plot, It's

1415
01:01:14,956 --> 01:01:17,796
Speaker 7: just her going through her freshman year, making friends, trying

1416
01:01:17,836 --> 01:01:20,516
Speaker 7: to find her voice as a writer, and developing this

1417
01:01:20,556 --> 01:01:22,716
Speaker 7: ill fated crush on this older boy who's not interested

1418
01:01:22,716 --> 01:01:26,116
Speaker 7: in her, And I just remember feeling like reading that

1419
01:01:26,276 --> 01:01:29,436
Speaker 7: dialogue felt so much more real than anything I'd ever

1420
01:01:29,516 --> 01:01:32,716
Speaker 7: read before, And it was because it was teenagers who

1421
01:01:32,756 --> 01:01:34,796
Speaker 7: were really, really smart, but they weren't pretentious.

1422
01:01:35,276 --> 01:01:36,596
Speaker 8: And I had never really read.

1423
01:01:36,476 --> 01:01:39,476
Speaker 7: Anything that was that good at echoing the kinds of

1424
01:01:39,636 --> 01:01:42,756
Speaker 7: conversations that I had experienced and had as a teenager.

1425
01:01:43,236 --> 01:01:45,316
Speaker 1: I will ask, though, can teenagers be smart and not

1426
01:01:45,996 --> 01:01:46,716
Speaker 1: be pretentious?

1427
01:01:47,596 --> 01:01:50,356
Speaker 7: I felt like the reason why I felt a lack

1428
01:01:50,396 --> 01:01:56,236
Speaker 7: of pretension was because it felt like they weren't performing

1429
01:01:56,356 --> 01:01:59,116
Speaker 7: for adults. They were just performing for each other, okay,

1430
01:01:59,516 --> 01:02:00,116
Speaker 7: which I feel like.

1431
01:02:00,156 --> 01:02:05,996
Speaker 1: Was so smart for their cohort not necessarily performatively small.

1432
01:02:06,036 --> 01:02:08,196
Speaker 7: They were not performally smart. And you know what the

1433
01:02:08,276 --> 01:02:10,076
Speaker 7: other key difference is is that they asked a lot

1434
01:02:10,156 --> 01:02:12,996
Speaker 7: of questions. It wasn't kids who pretended to know everything.

1435
01:02:13,076 --> 01:02:15,556
Speaker 7: It was kids who were really deeply curious about the world,

1436
01:02:15,596 --> 01:02:17,996
Speaker 7: and they asked really smart questions, but they didn't pretend

1437
01:02:18,036 --> 01:02:21,036
Speaker 7: to know more than they than they did. And especially

1438
01:02:21,116 --> 01:02:23,596
Speaker 7: the narrator, like at the end of the book. I

1439
01:02:23,636 --> 01:02:25,436
Speaker 7: mean it's called The Idiot, which borrows its title from

1440
01:02:25,436 --> 01:02:28,516
Speaker 7: Adostoevsky work, And at the end of the book she

1441
01:02:28,636 --> 01:02:31,796
Speaker 7: basically says like, I'm dumb. I don't know anything, Like

1442
01:02:31,876 --> 01:02:33,276
Speaker 7: I've spent a whole year in college and had this

1443
01:02:33,316 --> 01:02:34,836
Speaker 7: whole summer break and I don't know what happened. Like

1444
01:02:34,916 --> 01:02:37,516
Speaker 7: that's how the book ends. And that just felt I

1445
01:02:37,516 --> 01:02:39,076
Speaker 7: read that book when I was twenty for the first time,

1446
01:02:39,396 --> 01:02:42,236
Speaker 7: and it just felt so real to be like, yeah,

1447
01:02:42,396 --> 01:02:44,716
Speaker 7: like I don't know anything. Like I'm asking all these questions.

1448
01:02:44,756 --> 01:02:46,396
Speaker 7: I'm going out in the world, I'm meeting all these people.

1449
01:02:46,436 --> 01:02:48,356
Speaker 7: I'm trying to make sense of everything, and I've been

1450
01:02:48,476 --> 01:02:50,836
Speaker 7: left with yet more questions than I had when I started.

1451
01:02:51,036 --> 01:02:55,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, last break and leave back with Jensen McCrae.

1452
01:02:59,556 --> 01:03:03,556
Speaker 1: What does winning a Grammy do for You're clearly like

1453
01:03:03,916 --> 01:03:07,916
Speaker 1: I mean, take out song, take out the music career.

1454
01:03:08,036 --> 01:03:11,956
Speaker 1: You're an impressive person. Thank you, very clearly, like you

1455
01:03:12,036 --> 01:03:16,156
Speaker 1: have a lot of interests, very adept at a lot

1456
01:03:16,196 --> 01:03:20,596
Speaker 1: of things. What does a Grammy do for you? Why

1457
01:03:20,756 --> 01:03:24,396
Speaker 1: is that like you're driving force? Why is it not drive?

1458
01:03:24,436 --> 01:03:26,156
Speaker 1: But why is that one of the things, many things

1459
01:03:26,156 --> 01:03:26,956
Speaker 1: that you want to accomplish.

1460
01:03:27,316 --> 01:03:29,356
Speaker 7: There's one component, which is that not that many black

1461
01:03:29,396 --> 01:03:32,516
Speaker 7: women have one album of the year. Beyonce winning this

1462
01:03:32,596 --> 01:03:33,036
Speaker 7: past year.

1463
01:03:33,036 --> 01:03:35,156
Speaker 8: It was only the fourth time it's ever happened, and

1464
01:03:35,236 --> 01:03:36,716
Speaker 8: so there's a part of me that just wants to

1465
01:03:37,516 --> 01:03:38,236
Speaker 8: I want to prove it.

1466
01:03:38,436 --> 01:03:39,036
Speaker 1: We're back to that.

1467
01:03:39,356 --> 01:03:40,916
Speaker 8: Yes, yes, that's really part of it.

1468
01:03:41,036 --> 01:03:42,316
Speaker 7: Is really like I didn't know that when I was

1469
01:03:42,356 --> 01:03:43,756
Speaker 7: a kid, and I'm like, oh wow, like if I

1470
01:03:43,876 --> 01:03:45,876
Speaker 7: do this, like it's historical in.

1471
01:03:45,876 --> 01:03:47,796
Speaker 1: A lot of ways, Beyonce, laurn Hill.

1472
01:03:48,556 --> 01:03:52,476
Speaker 7: Natalie Cole, and then there's another one. But I know

1473
01:03:52,556 --> 01:03:54,516
Speaker 7: that Rihanna's never won it and Alicia Keys has never

1474
01:03:54,516 --> 01:03:56,796
Speaker 7: won it, which is crazy. That's a component of it.

1475
01:03:56,876 --> 01:03:58,556
Speaker 7: There's also the part of me that's like I've always

1476
01:03:58,556 --> 01:04:01,036
Speaker 7: been academic. I've always been very academically inclined, and I

1477
01:04:01,156 --> 01:04:03,396
Speaker 7: like gold stars. I want the institution to give me

1478
01:04:03,476 --> 01:04:03,996
Speaker 7: a gold star.

1479
01:04:04,156 --> 01:04:04,876
Speaker 8: Like that's just true.

1480
01:04:04,996 --> 01:04:09,716
Speaker 7: Like I just love when authority recognizes my and like,

1481
01:04:09,756 --> 01:04:11,676
Speaker 7: I know it's not that's not what gives my work meaning.

1482
01:04:11,836 --> 01:04:13,756
Speaker 7: I think my work has meaning because I make it

1483
01:04:13,876 --> 01:04:16,236
Speaker 7: and because it's reaching people who are touched by it.

1484
01:04:16,356 --> 01:04:19,476
Speaker 7: That's the most important thing. But to me, it's it's

1485
01:04:19,476 --> 01:04:22,436
Speaker 7: a milestone that I like achieving is getting that stamp

1486
01:04:22,596 --> 01:04:24,996
Speaker 7: from like an entity that's larger than me and that

1487
01:04:25,076 --> 01:04:27,796
Speaker 7: has a track record of anointing people like I like.

1488
01:04:27,836 --> 01:04:29,516
Speaker 7: And if I if I go my whole life without

1489
01:04:29,516 --> 01:04:31,636
Speaker 7: winning any kind of awards for my music, that's fine,

1490
01:04:31,756 --> 01:04:33,476
Speaker 7: Like I won't feel like I failed. But it's just

1491
01:04:33,516 --> 01:04:36,236
Speaker 7: something that I've always I've always liked the idea of

1492
01:04:36,316 --> 01:04:37,996
Speaker 7: It's something that like makes it will make me feel

1493
01:04:38,036 --> 01:04:40,876
Speaker 7: like it's just an it's another thing to have achieved,

1494
01:04:41,556 --> 01:04:43,636
Speaker 7: and it's another thing to feel like I've worked toward.

1495
01:04:43,996 --> 01:04:47,076
Speaker 7: And there's like a system in place that you can

1496
01:04:47,156 --> 01:04:49,556
Speaker 7: work to increase your odds of winning it. And I'm like,

1497
01:04:49,636 --> 01:04:50,916
Speaker 7: let me just try, let me try to think you

1498
01:04:52,396 --> 01:04:53,796
Speaker 7: not really, I don't really know what it is, but

1499
01:04:53,876 --> 01:04:55,116
Speaker 7: I know that like a lot of it is just

1500
01:04:55,156 --> 01:04:57,596
Speaker 7: like being involved in like the music community, and like

1501
01:04:57,716 --> 01:05:00,596
Speaker 7: being involved in the Recording Academy, and like why not

1502
01:05:00,956 --> 01:05:04,196
Speaker 7: for more community and why not like be more involved

1503
01:05:04,236 --> 01:05:06,836
Speaker 7: in like music advocacy and music education, Like those are

1504
01:05:06,836 --> 01:05:08,916
Speaker 7: all things I want to do anyway, and like just

1505
01:05:09,356 --> 01:05:12,956
Speaker 7: as involved as I can in that network, I think

1506
01:05:13,076 --> 01:05:14,756
Speaker 7: is something that will bear fruit regardless of whether or

1507
01:05:14,796 --> 01:05:15,476
Speaker 7: not I won an award.

1508
01:05:15,556 --> 01:05:17,796
Speaker 1: So aside from wanting to win, the things that it

1509
01:05:17,916 --> 01:05:22,116
Speaker 1: might take to win are appealing to you to achieve

1510
01:05:22,156 --> 01:05:24,876
Speaker 1: a filled just to do, whether that's the networking or

1511
01:05:25,076 --> 01:05:27,756
Speaker 1: the helping the musical education part helping on this.

1512
01:05:28,716 --> 01:05:30,396
Speaker 7: I went to Grammy camp when I was a teenager,

1513
01:05:30,516 --> 01:05:33,556
Speaker 7: which is like the part of the recording academies, like

1514
01:05:33,556 --> 01:05:36,596
Speaker 7: philanthropic wing is like I don't know what the form

1515
01:05:36,636 --> 01:05:39,196
Speaker 7: of the camp takes now, but when I went ten

1516
01:05:39,276 --> 01:05:42,476
Speaker 7: years ago, it was a ten day residential camp where

1517
01:05:42,596 --> 01:05:44,516
Speaker 7: you go and you have all this instruction with these

1518
01:05:44,596 --> 01:05:47,116
Speaker 7: high level instructors, and then at the end of it,

1519
01:05:47,236 --> 01:05:49,836
Speaker 7: we did a showcase at l Ray, which is you know,

1520
01:05:50,036 --> 01:05:52,516
Speaker 7: I ended up playing there this year myself, which was

1521
01:05:52,596 --> 01:05:55,796
Speaker 7: incredible and it totally changed my life, Like was what

1522
01:05:55,956 --> 01:05:59,596
Speaker 7: cemented my dream of becoming a musician in a way

1523
01:05:59,676 --> 01:06:01,116
Speaker 7: that was like so much more tangible than it had

1524
01:06:01,156 --> 01:06:04,276
Speaker 7: ever been before. And all I want is to keep going.

1525
01:06:04,516 --> 01:06:05,996
Speaker 7: I think what I want to give is the gift

1526
01:06:06,036 --> 01:06:07,996
Speaker 7: of this dream to more people. And I think that

1527
01:06:08,076 --> 01:06:10,276
Speaker 7: by winning a Grammy give the gift of this dream

1528
01:06:10,756 --> 01:06:13,556
Speaker 7: to other black girls. I've had so many great mentors

1529
01:06:13,596 --> 01:06:15,836
Speaker 7: and so many great opportunities, and I just want to

1530
01:06:15,916 --> 01:06:17,196
Speaker 7: keep I want to pay it forward more.

1531
01:06:17,196 --> 01:06:19,116
Speaker 8: I want to show more people that as possible.

1532
01:06:19,356 --> 01:06:20,076
Speaker 1: That's so cool.

1533
01:06:20,316 --> 01:06:22,596
Speaker 7: Honestly, before Grammy Camp, I didn't think I was going

1534
01:06:22,636 --> 01:06:24,676
Speaker 7: to go to music school. I thought my plan was

1535
01:06:24,836 --> 01:06:27,116
Speaker 7: to apply to colleges and big First of all, I

1536
01:06:27,116 --> 01:06:29,116
Speaker 7: thought I was going to leave LA and my plan

1537
01:06:29,316 --> 01:06:31,556
Speaker 7: was to apply to colleges in big cities and do

1538
01:06:31,676 --> 01:06:33,396
Speaker 7: music on the side. Like I thought I would maybe

1539
01:06:33,436 --> 01:06:35,516
Speaker 7: go to NYU or I was like looking at Emory

1540
01:06:35,516 --> 01:06:36,956
Speaker 7: because it was in Atlanta. I was like, I'll go

1541
01:06:37,116 --> 01:06:39,876
Speaker 7: somewhere that has a music scene and has a big city,

1542
01:06:39,916 --> 01:06:41,476
Speaker 7: and like I'll just study English or something and then

1543
01:06:41,476 --> 01:06:42,996
Speaker 7: I'll play shows on the side. Like that was what

1544
01:06:43,076 --> 01:06:44,716
Speaker 7: I thought I was going to do, because the only

1545
01:06:44,796 --> 01:06:47,316
Speaker 7: music schools I knew about were like conservatories, and I

1546
01:06:47,436 --> 01:06:49,156
Speaker 7: was like, I really want to get like I wanted

1547
01:06:49,156 --> 01:06:51,516
Speaker 7: to sync my teeth into a great academic education because

1548
01:06:51,516 --> 01:06:53,436
Speaker 7: I loved school and I didn't want to sacrifice that

1549
01:06:53,516 --> 01:06:55,596
Speaker 7: to study music. And then I found out about USC

1550
01:06:56,236 --> 01:06:58,516
Speaker 7: and I learned that I could get that Conservatory Education

1551
01:06:58,676 --> 01:07:02,636
Speaker 7: and I could still take USC's general education classes, and

1552
01:07:02,756 --> 01:07:03,796
Speaker 7: I was like, this is the perfect place.

1553
01:07:03,876 --> 01:07:06,316
Speaker 8: And Grammy Camp was the was what I saw. I

1554
01:07:06,396 --> 01:07:07,436
Speaker 8: saw as a stepping stone.

1555
01:07:07,436 --> 01:07:09,276
Speaker 7: And also it was the first time I was ever

1556
01:07:09,356 --> 01:07:12,476
Speaker 7: around anyone who cared about music ever, and it was awesome.

1557
01:07:12,476 --> 01:07:13,996
Speaker 1: What was I like to connect with other people like that?

1558
01:07:14,916 --> 01:07:16,476
Speaker 8: It felt like it was my taste of what it

1559
01:07:16,516 --> 01:07:17,876
Speaker 8: would be like to go to college. I was like, Oh,

1560
01:07:17,956 --> 01:07:19,796
Speaker 8: the people here like me. Everyone likes me.

1561
01:07:19,916 --> 01:07:21,996
Speaker 7: Like in high school people didn't like me, and I

1562
01:07:22,036 --> 01:07:23,796
Speaker 7: went to music school and everyone or I went to

1563
01:07:24,076 --> 01:07:25,796
Speaker 7: Grant Camp and people liked me.

1564
01:07:26,036 --> 01:07:27,836
Speaker 1: Was that like a thing, like, you know, I think

1565
01:07:28,116 --> 01:07:30,716
Speaker 1: to some I think everyone feels a little marginalized in

1566
01:07:30,796 --> 01:07:33,356
Speaker 1: high school, even the popular and whatever. But like, but

1567
01:07:33,476 --> 01:07:36,476
Speaker 1: you really, like, truthfully, you think I had friends in

1568
01:07:36,596 --> 01:07:37,076
Speaker 1: high school.

1569
01:07:37,076 --> 01:07:38,996
Speaker 8: But I mean people told me they didn't like me

1570
01:07:39,076 --> 01:07:40,276
Speaker 8: to my face, like I knew.

1571
01:07:40,596 --> 01:07:43,076
Speaker 7: I knew that they didn't and it was mostly because

1572
01:07:43,116 --> 01:07:45,316
Speaker 7: of all, you know, being super opinionated and talking about politics.

1573
01:07:45,356 --> 01:07:46,916
Speaker 7: That was like a big part of why people didn't.

1574
01:07:46,916 --> 01:07:50,076
Speaker 7: They thought I was like annoying and shrill and going

1575
01:07:50,116 --> 01:07:52,116
Speaker 7: to mute. And also people I also sang all the time,

1576
01:07:52,156 --> 01:07:54,036
Speaker 7: which is annoying. Like I just sang to myself all

1577
01:07:54,076 --> 01:07:56,956
Speaker 7: the time. You go to a music camp, everybody's.

1578
01:07:56,516 --> 01:07:58,516
Speaker 8: Singing themselves all the time, as it turns out, and

1579
01:07:58,636 --> 01:08:02,076
Speaker 8: that is welcome. Yeah, I loved it. I was like

1580
01:08:02,436 --> 01:08:05,396
Speaker 8: the happiest I'd ever been. I was so sad to leave.

1581
01:08:05,596 --> 01:08:06,596
Speaker 8: I loved it there.

1582
01:08:07,196 --> 01:08:09,116
Speaker 1: Wow, what gives you a confidence?

1583
01:08:10,196 --> 01:08:14,036
Speaker 7: I mean, honestly, my family, Like, my family did such

1584
01:08:14,036 --> 01:08:16,276
Speaker 7: a good job of making our house a safe space

1585
01:08:16,396 --> 01:08:21,076
Speaker 7: that like, whenever I feel defeated or less than, we're insecure.

1586
01:08:21,156 --> 01:08:23,716
Speaker 7: It's like if I go to my parents' house, they

1587
01:08:23,916 --> 01:08:27,036
Speaker 7: build me up so much, Like I'll be sad about

1588
01:08:27,036 --> 01:08:28,916
Speaker 7: something and I will tell them about it, and my

1589
01:08:28,996 --> 01:08:30,196
Speaker 7: dad will start laughing.

1590
01:08:29,916 --> 01:08:31,596
Speaker 8: Because I'll be like that, you know that's so stupid.

1591
01:08:31,756 --> 01:08:33,636
Speaker 8: You know that that person's opinion doesn't mean anything.

1592
01:08:33,876 --> 01:08:35,796
Speaker 7: Is that person signing your checks? Why do you care

1593
01:08:35,796 --> 01:08:38,876
Speaker 7: about their opinion? Like he will just immediately just make

1594
01:08:38,916 --> 01:08:41,316
Speaker 7: it so simple. And my parents will be like, do

1595
01:08:41,356 --> 01:08:42,636
Speaker 7: you understand that you're the most.

1596
01:08:42,516 --> 01:08:45,276
Speaker 8: Beautiful, intelligent, funny, like you have everything going for you,

1597
01:08:45,436 --> 01:08:46,236
Speaker 8: like no one can tear you.

1598
01:08:46,476 --> 01:08:48,716
Speaker 7: Like to them, it is a no brainer. And it's

1599
01:08:48,756 --> 01:08:50,796
Speaker 7: a shock that I would ever feel bad about myself ever.

1600
01:08:50,876 --> 01:08:55,436
Speaker 7: And it's their unwavering confidence in my superiority that allows

1601
01:08:55,516 --> 01:08:57,956
Speaker 7: me to feel medium like I don't think I'll ever

1602
01:08:57,996 --> 01:09:00,316
Speaker 7: see myself the way they see me, obviously, because that's

1603
01:09:00,316 --> 01:09:04,236
Speaker 7: probably not healthy. But if I'm feeling bad and I'm like, oh,

1604
01:09:04,356 --> 01:09:05,836
Speaker 7: like I'm not where I'm supposed to be in my career,

1605
01:09:05,916 --> 01:09:08,436
Speaker 7: I'm feeling ugly today, like I'm feeling insecure, I'm feeling

1606
01:09:08,836 --> 01:09:13,236
Speaker 7: like I'm whatever. If I can take even ten percent

1607
01:09:13,276 --> 01:09:15,316
Speaker 7: of their support and their love, it just bumps me

1608
01:09:15,396 --> 01:09:17,236
Speaker 7: back up to like, oh no, I'm fine, I'm gonna

1609
01:09:17,276 --> 01:09:20,356
Speaker 7: be fine, and it really I attribute it mostly to them.

1610
01:09:20,676 --> 01:09:24,676
Speaker 1: That's great, that's really great. Should do we should do

1611
01:09:24,716 --> 01:09:25,156
Speaker 1: another song?

1612
01:09:25,276 --> 01:09:27,916
Speaker 8: All right, I'm gonna tune this guitar really quick.

1613
01:09:29,076 --> 01:09:30,596
Speaker 7: But I feel like the next song that I'm gonna

1614
01:09:30,596 --> 01:09:36,956
Speaker 7: play is kind of on this topic because one of

1615
01:09:37,036 --> 01:09:39,356
Speaker 7: the things that I have struggled with in my life

1616
01:09:39,516 --> 01:09:44,956
Speaker 7: is forgiving myself for making mistakes and just being overly

1617
01:09:45,036 --> 01:09:45,756
Speaker 7: hard on myself.

1618
01:09:46,556 --> 01:09:48,476
Speaker 8: And so I wrote this song about that.

1619
01:09:48,556 --> 01:10:02,356
Speaker 2: It's called let Me Be Wrong, just my guton belly flaw,

1620
01:10:03,556 --> 01:10:06,716
Speaker 2: call the cow just it's.

1621
01:10:07,916 --> 01:10:13,156
Speaker 4: Good every word, the cars, food, dance.

1622
01:10:12,916 --> 01:10:19,276
Speaker 2: On glass, when my shoes are Something riding in my

1623
01:10:19,756 --> 01:10:26,956
Speaker 2: brain tells me to it anyway and dune, I feel

1624
01:10:27,196 --> 01:10:34,836
Speaker 2: the long decay and down its God, It's okay. Let

1625
01:10:34,916 --> 01:10:39,316
Speaker 2: me be wrong, ride out to the wheels fall, rather

1626
01:10:39,596 --> 01:10:46,356
Speaker 2: delusional cloud out a funeral. Let me be last, hardways

1627
01:10:46,436 --> 01:10:49,916
Speaker 2: away and I've been good too long.

1628
01:10:50,716 --> 01:10:57,156
Speaker 4: Let me be wrong, freeing.

1629
01:10:56,956 --> 01:11:05,556
Speaker 2: My tongue, broget me like those schools at seven scene bake,

1630
01:11:05,676 --> 01:11:09,516
Speaker 2: got glass ceilings, enterings.

1631
01:11:09,676 --> 01:11:17,556
Speaker 5: Fuck those girls got everything. Something twisted in my chest

1632
01:11:18,596 --> 01:11:19,956
Speaker 5: says good.

1633
01:11:19,956 --> 01:11:25,916
Speaker 4: But not do the best when I was young, knocks.

1634
01:11:25,636 --> 01:11:32,636
Speaker 5: Me out and nothing really shakes me now. Let me

1635
01:11:33,436 --> 01:11:38,836
Speaker 5: be wrong all Julie's farm, rather delusional.

1636
01:11:38,956 --> 01:11:40,316
Speaker 4: Lut at the funeral.

1637
01:11:41,236 --> 01:11:44,756
Speaker 5: Let me you lost hard ways the way I w

1638
01:11:45,636 --> 01:11:47,596
Speaker 5: and I'll be good too long.

1639
01:11:48,356 --> 01:11:55,716
Speaker 9: Clell be wrong, Lelly be roight here here here here,

1640
01:11:56,636 --> 01:12:03,636
Speaker 9: let me be right, Let me be roight ya here

1641
01:12:03,996 --> 01:12:09,676
Speaker 9: here here, let me you rare.

1642
01:12:10,316 --> 01:12:19,636
Speaker 2: I love to la ribe but dousionout of funeral, hard

1643
01:12:19,716 --> 01:12:22,956
Speaker 2: ways the way I want, and I've been good to.

1644
01:12:24,476 --> 01:12:25,516
Speaker 9: Let me be wrong.

1645
01:12:28,916 --> 01:12:31,436
Speaker 1: Great song, thank you. I love that. I love the

1646
01:12:31,516 --> 01:12:35,396
Speaker 1: western feel of that's it feels like there's like a

1647
01:12:35,636 --> 01:12:38,236
Speaker 1: like a I don't know what it is, but there's

1648
01:12:38,276 --> 01:12:39,916
Speaker 1: there's a little something in it that feels like a

1649
01:12:40,796 --> 01:12:42,796
Speaker 1: you know, a really great country song. Thank you.

1650
01:12:42,876 --> 01:12:45,156
Speaker 8: I like having a little country, little country moment here

1651
01:12:45,196 --> 01:12:45,436
Speaker 8: and there.

1652
01:12:45,556 --> 01:12:49,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. Thank you so much for this is incredible.

1653
01:12:49,596 --> 01:12:50,756
Speaker 8: This has been such a great conversation.

1654
01:12:50,876 --> 01:12:52,836
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for for coming by, for making

1655
01:12:52,876 --> 01:12:53,236
Speaker 1: the music.

1656
01:12:53,476 --> 01:12:54,356
Speaker 8: Yes, thank you so much.

1657
01:12:54,436 --> 01:12:59,436
Speaker 1: Cool. In the episode description, you'll find a link to

1658
01:12:59,516 --> 01:13:01,956
Speaker 1: a playlist of our favorite songs from Jensen McCrae, as

1659
01:13:01,996 --> 01:13:04,236
Speaker 1: well as her latest album I Don't Know how but

1660
01:13:04,316 --> 01:13:06,916
Speaker 1: They found It. Be sure to check out YouTube dot

1661
01:13:06,956 --> 01:13:09,596
Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record Podcast to see all of our

1662
01:13:09,676 --> 01:13:12,596
Speaker 1: video interviews, and be sure to follow us on Instagram

1663
01:13:12,676 --> 01:13:14,996
Speaker 1: at the Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on

1664
01:13:15,036 --> 01:13:18,236
Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited

1665
01:13:18,276 --> 01:13:20,676
Speaker 1: by Leah Rose, with marketing health from Eric Sandler and

1666
01:13:20,756 --> 01:13:24,796
Speaker 1: Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is

1667
01:13:24,836 --> 01:13:27,596
Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and

1668
01:13:27,716 --> 01:13:31,476
Speaker 1: others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus

1669
01:13:31,556 --> 01:13:34,196
Speaker 1: is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad

1670
01:13:34,356 --> 01:13:36,756
Speaker 1: free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for

1671
01:13:36,796 --> 01:13:40,116
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like

1672
01:13:40,196 --> 01:13:42,436
Speaker 1: this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us

1673
01:13:42,436 --> 01:13:45,116
Speaker 1: on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats.

1674
01:13:45,276 --> 01:13:46,236
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.