Speaker 1: Worrying.
Speaker 2: Today's episode contains some amount of spoilers.
Speaker 3: For the MCU. Ab out of it at large, ever
Speaker 3: heard of it?
Speaker 2: Hello, my name is Jestepso and I'm Rosy night, and
Speaker 2: welcome back to x ra Vision, the podcast where we
Speaker 2: dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture,
Speaker 2: comedy from my heart, where we're bringing you three episodes.
Speaker 4: Weekless in today's episode, through thirty seven movies, seventeen TV series,
Speaker 4: three television specials. While we used to dream of days
Speaker 4: like this, we monkey paused ourselves. The MCU has introduced
Speaker 4: a lot of villains, Unfortunately they have not all been memorable.
Speaker 4: So in today's episode of Impending Doomsday, we will be
Speaker 4: investigating the one hundred plus villains we probably won't see
Speaker 4: in Doomsday, and we'll pick our six villains to stick
Speaker 4: around who we would relaunch our MCU with. Then we'll
Speaker 4: be keep recasting and killing the rest of the MCU
Speaker 4: villains that you probably won't see, And as always, we'll
Speaker 4: end with a little theorizing, little discussion, and a little
Speaker 4: conversation about where the MCU can go next.
Speaker 5: Yet it's ongoing villain problem.
Speaker 3: So here we go. It's the villains.
Speaker 2: We are, of course, still a few months away from
Speaker 2: Avengers Doomsday releasing December eighteenth, the next big MCU event
Speaker 2: that's not brand new day, but with so many major
Speaker 2: players spread across movies and TV each month, we're going
Speaker 2: to be diving into characters to prepare you for that.
Speaker 2: It's part of our impending Doomsday series, and of course
Speaker 2: Doomsday we expected to close the book on, along with
Speaker 2: Secret Wars, to close the book on many of our
Speaker 2: longtime favorites asterisk, as long as the movies after that
Speaker 2: aren't in trouble and they don't need to break the
Speaker 2: emergency glass once again. But we expect that to be
Speaker 2: the case. And so today we're gonna be discussing the
Speaker 2: villains of the MCU, and oh my god, super producer
Speaker 2: Aaron has compiled a master list.
Speaker 5: A list.
Speaker 2: You have some one hundred plus villains, many of whom
Speaker 2: I mean, I would I would argue the vast majority
Speaker 2: of whom we are not going to see in dooms Eva.
Speaker 2: But Aaron, do you want to just run through some
Speaker 2: of your favorite villains and some notable.
Speaker 5: I was going to say, who shadow you the most?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we are not going to say my god, I
Speaker 4: do not remember these.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are quite a few. So I went through
Speaker 1: and pulled each villain that I could for every movie,
Speaker 1: every TV show, every TV special, everyone from you know,
Speaker 1: a big villain like Ultron to a not so big
Speaker 1: villain like Manucci. So this is this is spanning the
Speaker 1: entire mc u uh, and I broke them down into categories.
Speaker 1: We've got a ton of tech and science villains. We
Speaker 1: have shady government agencies, we have street level villains. We've
Speaker 1: got organized crime. We've got villains who were driven by
Speaker 1: some ideology. We have a couple of villains who've been
Speaker 1: rehabilitated to some extent. You know your abominations, your your
Speaker 1: bulls eye. I guess you could say we've got his
Speaker 1: guardian villains for sure. We have Hydra, We've got the
Speaker 1: cosmic villains, and we have a big chunk of mystical
Speaker 1: magical villains who have ranged from Doctor Strange films to
Speaker 1: Agatha all along. So there are a ton of options
Speaker 1: here for us.
Speaker 4: Aaron I go to say, I think even the deep
Speaker 4: cuttist of our listeners and me and Jason ourselves, I
Speaker 4: don't think any of us could have named all of
Speaker 4: these if you had enough found them like the insane,
Speaker 4: incredibly deep, and this is to be really fun.
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna just give you a quick recap on
Speaker 1: where we last saw each of these villains. Some of
Speaker 1: them we probably will never see again, but you know what,
Speaker 1: here we go. So within the tech and science, we
Speaker 1: start off with Iron Manger last sight seen being electrocuted
Speaker 1: to death by the arc reactor prototype. Then Aldret's Killian
Speaker 1: and the Extremist soldiers. They took a rocket to the
Speaker 1: face and Killian was disintegrated whiplash. He self destructed himself
Speaker 1: justin Hammer is being secretly held in Seagate Penitentiary. Ultron
Speaker 1: was vaporized by a vision but he is set to
Speaker 1: return in Vision Quest, so we do know that he
Speaker 1: should be back. Ulysses Claw he was betrayed by Killmonger, Yellowjacket,
Speaker 1: was crushed into subatomic size, became Modoc, worked for Kang,
Speaker 1: betrayed Kang, and then in his dying moments, he was like,
Speaker 1: I'm an Avenger now I don't want to be the
Speaker 1: one to tell him. But he didn't make it into
Speaker 1: the Avengers, sorry Modoc culture. He was arrested after he
Speaker 1: fought with Spider man on the beach. He had a
Speaker 1: brief alliance with Morbius. That's never a good thing. He's
Speaker 1: probably not coming back Shocker. He was webbed up by
Speaker 1: Peter and found by a bunch of school children and
Speaker 1: then arrested. Although we did just see Schocker's gauntlet being
Speaker 1: used in the most recent Brand New Day teaser, so
Speaker 1: he could have parts of his equipment coming back.
Speaker 5: Interesting Tatari technology question.
Speaker 1: M Tinkerer is actually still out there, tinkering. I don't
Speaker 1: know where he went. He escaped and he's good Mysterio
Speaker 1: killed by his own Drone, Green, Goblin, dot Cock, Sandman, Lizard, Electro.
Speaker 1: They were all sent back to their respective raimy vers
Speaker 1: or weberverse. Samuel Stearns was imprisoned on the Raft and
Speaker 1: Red Ghosts and the super Apes. Where were they last seen? Never?
Speaker 1: We never saw Red ghost I'm still upset about that.
Speaker 1: Give me John Malcovich.
Speaker 4: I also want to say that was just eighteen of
Speaker 4: the Yellens guys, Aaron found one hundred and ten.
Speaker 1: So we will we will not go through all of
Speaker 1: that crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, as we go through this, Jason, why don't you
Speaker 4: explain how we're gonna dig into these characters.
Speaker 2: The incursions are coming, the timelines are gonna be destroyed
Speaker 2: and collapsed, and the MCU is gonna be rebooted in
Speaker 2: some form or fashion.
Speaker 3: So we have created six.
Speaker 2: Protection slots, six slots for six Infinity stones, and these
Speaker 2: are the characters that you are going to protect to
Speaker 2: not be wiped out through cosmic incursions. And you're gonna
Speaker 2: build your multi phase arc with these villains in mind
Speaker 2: post incursion. And here are the slots. There is the
Speaker 2: Big Bad, so this is like your Thanos level threat.
Speaker 2: There is the Henchmen. So imagine you know how Loki
Speaker 2: was kind of the big Bad for the first phases
Speaker 2: and then up to Avengers Marvels the Avengers, but really
Speaker 2: he was the guy in front of the real guy
Speaker 2: in his fanos. That's your henchmen, magic self explanatory, your
Speaker 2: magic villain, street level, your kingpins, your hands, your et cetera,
Speaker 2: your your muses variant. This is like your flex pick.
Speaker 2: You can you can select any MCU character and then
Speaker 2: invent imagine a variant villain from that character, and then
Speaker 2: cosmic space obviously, your your celestials, your eternal in the
Speaker 2: Accuser Roan and the Accuser et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: After we do our picks, we will then pitch our
Speaker 2: arc to the audience.
Speaker 4: Ah, I love, I love to theorize a little mc
Speaker 4: I also think this is a great angle to do
Speaker 4: it through Jason because one of the conversations will have
Speaker 4: later is like, villains have often been a problem for
Speaker 4: the MCU, especially post fanl They feel disposable, Right, how
Speaker 4: do you bring one back? So I kind of love
Speaker 4: that we're going to be answering the question that we
Speaker 4: will later be asking.
Speaker 5: But yeah, this is going to be.
Speaker 4: Crazy because to pick only six out of that one
Speaker 4: hundred and ten list, there's so many crazy ways you
Speaker 4: can go with it. And if you look to the
Speaker 4: comics like who you bring in, you're going to be
Speaker 4: able to talk about the heroes.
Speaker 5: That's a really, really fun one.
Speaker 1: Okay, I believe Jason won our last auction draft, So Rosie,
Speaker 1: why don't you go first?
Speaker 4: Well, thank you. I would just like to say I
Speaker 4: was the one who won the last auction draft.
Speaker 1: For you first one.
Speaker 4: I ever wont so fuck your Okay, no, no, So let
Speaker 4: Jason go first.
Speaker 1: All right, First up, we're going to go through our
Speaker 1: cosmic and space level villains. Now, this is a big list.
Speaker 1: We have everyone from the Chatari to run in the Accuser,
Speaker 1: and then on the other end of it we've got
Speaker 1: Galactus and bah Uh. But then in the middle we
Speaker 1: still have you know, Taser Face and so like, there
Speaker 1: are a large number of villains here. We don't want
Speaker 1: to forget Gravic too from Secret Invasion, who was killed
Speaker 1: by Gia. But you know, Jason, you're gonna pick first
Speaker 1: who is your cosmic villain that you want to keep around.
Speaker 2: My cosmic villain is going to be Ultron, cowering to
Speaker 2: I am going to adapt tech the yes, it's a no,
Speaker 2: but we don't have tech.
Speaker 1: We don't know it's Oh good point, good point.
Speaker 4: Oh sorry, I see. Sorry, what's going to be my
Speaker 4: first pick?
Speaker 2: And so I am adapting the Annihilation Conquest comic arc,
Speaker 2: which Annihilists unleashes like waves of insect like drones to
Speaker 2: you know, wipe out galaxy after a galaxy. But instead
Speaker 2: it's going to be Ultron. So this is coming on
Speaker 2: the heels of Vision Quest. Ultron is seemingly destroyed, but
Speaker 2: in fact he has sent his brain waves out in
Speaker 2: his space where he has rebuilt himself in a new
Speaker 2: and disturbing new form, and you're gonna see how this
Speaker 2: first piece, although it won't theoretically be the first piece
Speaker 2: in my phases, plays into a larger theme that I'm
Speaker 2: working towards. So Ultron is my space cosmic tech threat.
Speaker 1: Love that, and we saw we saw Ultron be a
Speaker 1: cosmic level threat in the first season of What If
Speaker 1: I Think.
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely yeah, where he become yeah, I mean infinity
Speaker 4: kind of. Ultron became such a legendary part of the
Speaker 4: canon after that. And also, like I was honestly gonna
Speaker 4: he was up there for me as one of my
Speaker 4: big bats, because I just do think in the comics
Speaker 4: says so much you can draw from. So that's painful,
Speaker 4: but that means I'm gonna have to go big. So
Speaker 4: just to make sure that I have a player who
Speaker 4: is equitable to that, both storyline wise and power wise,
Speaker 4: I will be keeping Galactus, the Eater of Planets. He's
Speaker 4: one of the most iconic characters created by Jack Kirby
Speaker 4: and stan Lee, so many incredible connections, also a lot
Speaker 4: of fun to be had depending on how you want
Speaker 4: to pose him. Is he truly the big bad in
Speaker 4: this world or is he gonna get beaten by squirrel Girl.
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of fun you can have there,
Speaker 4: so yeah, I will be keeping the big Purple Boy.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's been done justice on screen yet,
Speaker 4: so let's do it. Let's make him my cosmic guy.
Speaker 1: It will be interesting when we get to the next
Speaker 1: section and we do keep recast kill. I personally think
Speaker 1: Ralph Innison was incredible as Galactus, but we'll see. We'll
Speaker 1: see how we feel, all right. Next up, we have
Speaker 1: the variant Now, Jason, do you want to explain variance
Speaker 1: here for us?
Speaker 2: So variance is you know we've seen most notable through
Speaker 2: the Deadpool films. Variant versions of characters exist, and there
Speaker 2: are infinite numbers of them, so this is kind of
Speaker 2: like again, this is like the flex pic. You can
Speaker 2: select any character and imagine a variant evil version of
Speaker 2: them and introduce them into our world. For this, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna select now this is this is tangled because I
Speaker 2: don't know if this character will show up, and I
Speaker 2: and I actually think it he might. But I'm gonna
Speaker 2: select the maker aka Evil read Richards.
Speaker 5: From the future, fucking sick choice.
Speaker 2: Ultimate from you know, Ultimate Invasion, the Ultimate Universe read Richards.
Speaker 2: He wears that funky kind of one piece helmet and
Speaker 2: he's just a very very evil, very very brilliant man.
Speaker 2: And that is my variant level threat.
Speaker 4: WHOA, that is an incredible choice. I love that entire arc.
Speaker 5: It is a really fun one.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think about a kind of like Robert
Speaker 4: Downey junior level recontextualization because I feel like, you know,
Speaker 4: that is such a crazy recasting to have him be
Speaker 4: both Iron Man and Doom.
Speaker 5: So who am I thinking of from.
Speaker 4: The MCU that I am gonna make into a villain.
Speaker 5: I think one of the best things about the MCU is.
Speaker 4: That is already so much kind of duality in characters
Speaker 4: and in good versions and bad versions, and people like
Speaker 4: Scarlet Witch. Is she a villain? Is she not a villain?
Speaker 4: So I'm going to take a character who is actually
Speaker 4: generally very chirpy and fun who I don't think we're
Speaker 4: going to get to see comeback, so I would love
Speaker 4: to see her reimagined.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go for Tatiana Maslani.
Speaker 4: She Hulk, but as like a I love Paul Kavarian
Speaker 4: like Maestro level, like crazy villainous. She can control her anger,
Speaker 4: she can control her villainy, and she is like I'm
Speaker 4: thinking about, who could arguably, you know, be a read
Speaker 4: Richard's level intelligence and strength. And obviously she's not fully
Speaker 4: up there, but we do know she's really clever. She's
Speaker 4: a lawyer, she's got that legal mindset. I think a
Speaker 4: machiavellian evil Red she Hulk could be pretty badass. So
Speaker 4: I think that's that's who I'm reimagining there as my variant.
Speaker 1: And keep her as I would keep.
Speaker 4: She's fantastic, she can do like, she can do it
Speaker 4: and also as well, like let's see some fucking body
Speaker 4: horror ship. Let's see some like Gray Hulk, you know,
Speaker 4: immortal Hulk ass like scary fucking hulk horror ship. Like,
Speaker 4: I think she could do it, great Paul with the
Speaker 4: awful Black Aaron. I mean, she's shown her range.
Speaker 1: All right. Next up is street level, and this I
Speaker 1: think can contain organized crime as well. This contains everyone
Speaker 1: from Batrock who was shot and killed by the power Broker.
Speaker 1: Finally we got leap Frog, speaking of she Hulk, who
Speaker 1: ripped it and ripped it right out the window into
Speaker 1: the street where he broke his legs and is now
Speaker 1: in jail. We have someone who's below street level with Moleman.
Speaker 1: We've got organized crime. We have a Sunny Birch if
Speaker 1: you remember from ant Man in the Wasp who was
Speaker 1: arrested and as he was arrested revealed his restaurant has
Speaker 1: a bunch of health code violations. We got we got
Speaker 1: wehn Wu, we got Shoe Sha Ling eleanor Bishop who
Speaker 1: was fought for Parents of the Year as.
Speaker 5: She mayro Mosque maybe question.
Speaker 1: And everyone like Parker Robbins too the hood.
Speaker 5: I loved Tim.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Jason, where are you going to go with
Speaker 1: your street level villain.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with the hell Fire Club.
Speaker 5: And that's good.
Speaker 2: But now the wrinkle being and I'm going to explain
Speaker 2: this fully in my pitch, the Parker Robinson's the hand.
Speaker 2: All these other groups are gonna be quite present in
Speaker 2: on my kind of street level epics that connect to the.
Speaker 3: To the larger plot.
Speaker 2: But at the center of it all, we're going to
Speaker 2: discover the hell Fire Club is back there making moves.
Speaker 2: We love that, providing funding, doing various shady things that
Speaker 2: I will describe later.
Speaker 3: The hell Fire Club my street level.
Speaker 5: We love the hell Fire Club.
Speaker 4: Those good I like, I'm glad you're like leaning into
Speaker 4: some x Men here. I was tempted to just only
Speaker 4: pick X Men adjacent villains so I could just pitch
Speaker 4: an X Men thing, but I was like, that's just
Speaker 4: so predictable for us. I know immediately who I'm going
Speaker 4: to go for here, because I do think it is,
Speaker 4: in my opinion, one of the most interesting unanswered threads.
Speaker 4: It's not Harry Styles as Thanos's brother that everyone knows.
Speaker 5: I loved that insane piece of fan casting.
Speaker 4: No, I wanna I'm going for a Jujai Lingu, a
Speaker 4: Shanchi's sister. She's a total badass. She's in charge of
Speaker 4: the fucking ten rings. I want to see how that
Speaker 4: shit goes down. I'm already envisioning my MCU phases essentially
Speaker 4: as like different genres, because I think that's what they've
Speaker 4: done so well. So my street level stuff is definitely
Speaker 4: gonna be like seventies Kung Fu influence, a little bit
Speaker 4: of Wooziah Daughters of the Dragon, like that's my that's
Speaker 4: gonna be that genre for that phase, for that space,
Speaker 4: And obviously, like with she Hulk, we're getting a little
Speaker 4: bit of horror galact It's gonna be a little bit
Speaker 4: of more of that cosmic kind of big action that
Speaker 4: the MCU need. So yeah, but I just she was
Speaker 4: so fantastic. I think about how fucking badass that if
Speaker 4: you look at all of the post credit scenes and
Speaker 4: you actually just played them in a row, that is
Speaker 4: one of the ones that is just the coolest standalone.
Speaker 4: Don't need to know shit about the character, don't need
Speaker 4: to know who Globshito is or whoever the person is,
Speaker 4: Like you just fucking you watch it and you're like, wait,
Speaker 4: she's like a sexy lady on a throne who you
Speaker 4: know is a badass martial arist and she has all
Speaker 4: these hot like young criminals around her, Like this is cool,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 5: So I think it stands as one of.
Speaker 2: The best Star Wars universe, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, Next up is Mystical and Magic. So from the
Speaker 1: Mystical Magic, we have a ton of Doctor Strange villains
Speaker 1: Causilius Morto. Then we've got people like Agatha Harkness. Uh,
Speaker 1: We've got from Shangxi, We've got the Dweller in Darkness,
Speaker 1: We've got Sinister Strange, we've got Najestin's is marvel Ahma
Speaker 1: and Arthur Harrow who last seen stuck in Arthur Harrow's body,
Speaker 1: and then you know, Jake Lockley took him outside and
Speaker 1: sent him to the farm of the side of the country.
Speaker 1: We got me Fisto. We've got real doll aka Death
Speaker 1: still at large. So Jason, what do you where are
Speaker 1: you looking for? Mysticorn magical villain?
Speaker 2: I am this is my continuity pick. I want to
Speaker 2: make sure that there are some threads that survived the incursion.
Speaker 2: And it makes sense to me that magic and a
Speaker 2: different multi dimensional threat, a threat that resides in a
Speaker 2: different place in the natural world, would maybe survive these incursions.
Speaker 2: And so I am selecting kath On, the other guy
Speaker 2: who wrote the Dark Hold as my magic.
Speaker 5: Jason bringing people who are not even on the list.
Speaker 1: Can I please mention.
Speaker 3: But that was he should have been there.
Speaker 5: Hey, I'm not complaining. I like that there's more villains.
Speaker 4: I just want to say that there's actually more than
Speaker 4: one hundred and ten villains.
Speaker 5: Guys. I like that one. I like that one.
Speaker 1: All right, Rosie, what about you for your magic?
Speaker 4: Well? This is it's great for me because I was
Speaker 4: worried that mine and Jason's complimentary tendencies here would spite
Speaker 4: me in the BART, But no, I had a couple
Speaker 4: here who were my big go tos.
Speaker 5: But I think for me.
Speaker 4: Always, she's always been at the heart of what the
Speaker 4: MCU does best. And I think as a continuity pick
Speaker 4: as someone that I would choose to be and to
Speaker 4: keep as like a face. I'm gonna go Scarlet Witch.
Speaker 4: I think you could bring her back as a true villain.
Speaker 4: I think you can also then have the potential for
Speaker 4: redemption arc. I also think it's kind of interesting to
Speaker 4: see a little bit of like, you know, Scarlet Witch, sheeholk.
Speaker 4: Like it's very women heavy here, but in a genre
Speaker 4: focused way. It's not gonna be like, don't smile, Captain Marvel,
Speaker 4: like hashtag girl boss join the Air Force. It's gonna
Speaker 4: be like, let's just see these women doing some weird shit,
Speaker 4: which I think we all enjoy.
Speaker 3: I love that pick. I really heavily considered.
Speaker 5: Right, I knew you would of I knew you would have.
Speaker 1: I love both of these universes so far, not even
Speaker 1: at Henchman in Big Bad like right, That's the coolest.
Speaker 4: Thing is that's so much fun to be had in
Speaker 4: the weird smallness of it all.
Speaker 1: And I was I was so sure one of you
Speaker 1: would pick my Fisto because of the kunst and sex men,
Speaker 1: because of how he could keep going. So he will
Speaker 1: be good, He'll be a.
Speaker 2: Good Yeah, it will be yes, all right, henchman. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is an important role. This I'm eager to see
Speaker 2: if Rosie redefines it, which, of course, you know, you
Speaker 2: people can make the argument that they want to make
Speaker 2: for what this means to them. To me, this means
Speaker 2: the kind of sort of anti hero care do you
Speaker 2: forget how like crazy, ruthless and evil Loki was and
Speaker 2: now you love him.
Speaker 4: Right and not see Camp survived to like say he
Speaker 4: would have bow to him and lo, he was gonna
Speaker 4: kill him before.
Speaker 5: The Avengers showed up. Like he was not a good guy, always.
Speaker 3: Attack New York.
Speaker 2: Luckily a unrealistically low amount of people were killed in
Speaker 2: that vicious attack on New York City, but like he
Speaker 2: engineered that whole thing, you know, kill stabbed Colson in
Speaker 2: the back. He was he's a bad guy, but then
Speaker 2: you love him. And so with that in mind, my henchman,
Speaker 2: the guy in front of the guy Eric Lyncher Magneto.
Speaker 4: I sweat to fucking god, Jason then fucking X Men asked, bitch.
Speaker 3: He's gonna be the bad guy for phase one.
Speaker 5: Okay, I mean understandable.
Speaker 3: You know, he's pissed.
Speaker 2: He's like enough of this, he's had enough of the
Speaker 2: humans and they're messing around and their experiments and their exploitation,
Speaker 2: and he's gonna do something about it, and somebody our
Speaker 2: heroes are gonna have to figure out how to stop them.
Speaker 3: Magneto.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I've been reading a lot of
Speaker 4: really interesting takes about Magneto, and Magneto is right like
Speaker 4: currently and how it reads currently. So I think it's
Speaker 4: time for a magne ovillain ark. I'm very interested about that.
Speaker 3: He's still gonna be right, you know what, He's gonna
Speaker 3: be bad.
Speaker 5: Hey, look, man, you can be right and bad.
Speaker 4: It's one of the biggest moral issues of the of
Speaker 4: the current time.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 4: So for me, uh, this is a big choice because
Speaker 4: I think that people forget like Loki was not some
Speaker 4: like beloved character like Loki was most famous in comic
Speaker 4: shops for being like carried away by some ants, you know,
Speaker 4: like having a funny helmet, like you know, the fact
Speaker 4: that he's like a shape shifter, like he is a
Speaker 4: silly billy.
Speaker 5: But they did a great casting.
Speaker 4: And also I think as much as we you know,
Speaker 4: we do kind of laugh about the first or movie
Speaker 4: or whatever, the Kenneth Browner of it or the Shakespearean element,
Speaker 4: I think brought something to it with Tom Heddleston casting
Speaker 4: that made the character so iconic.
Speaker 5: I do think recently we have had a casting.
Speaker 1: That is that good.
Speaker 4: But I don't think that she got the chance to
Speaker 4: really come out of the characters so and I think
Speaker 4: a lot of people who aren't as much into the
Speaker 4: TV shows and stuff could basically see this as her
Speaker 4: first introduction. So for me, it's gonna be a Ravona renslayer.
Speaker 4: She is gonna be my Henji. It's a connection to
Speaker 4: Kang without Kanging, but there was always the chance of
Speaker 4: her doing her as Kang because that was in the comics.
Speaker 4: I also just think that having a cosmic, badass, space
Speaker 4: killer space princess, we haven't really seen that in the MCU.
Speaker 4: It's a little bit of Guardians of the Galaxy, which
Speaker 4: we know people love. And also she does have the
Speaker 4: ability and the kind of cosmic timey wimy jump you know,
Speaker 4: ability the timeline stream jumping, that she can be a
Speaker 4: very formidable kind of first phase villain. Like they wouldn't
Speaker 4: really know what to do with her. They're still struggling
Speaker 4: with the timeline. We know, posting cursion, things are going
Speaker 4: to be extra fucked up, so she could pop up
Speaker 4: as Ravona and people not know who she is a
Speaker 4: kind of more princess version. But yeah, I think she's
Speaker 4: going to be a really fun kind of player in
Speaker 4: that low key role for sure.
Speaker 3: I love that. That's great.
Speaker 1: All right, big bad the end of your fit, your things?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Who is it?
Speaker 7: So?
Speaker 1: Jason? Just a quick reminder for everyone. You took Ultron
Speaker 1: as your cosmic villain, The Maker is your variant, The
Speaker 1: hell Fire Club is your street level Kathan the writer
Speaker 1: of the Dark Hold is your magic and Magneto as
Speaker 1: your henchman. Crazy, Who's your big bad? Who is? Who is?
Speaker 1: Who is this Stanos level threat?
Speaker 3: I am selecting if you pick someone on this. Let's
Speaker 3: understand that. I just want to say this.
Speaker 2: Let's just understand first of all that the Fox x
Speaker 2: Men universe is part of the MCU.
Speaker 5: Now, oh, my god.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, right, and ad the and and this is
Speaker 2: a character that has appeared on screen, and so in
Speaker 2: my mind, when the incursions happen, everything is like X
Speaker 2: Men animated series, all the Fox x Men films, x
Speaker 2: Men ninety seven, like all that shit is getting destroyed,
Speaker 2: and we are saving characters from all of those things Animated,
Speaker 2: X Men, Avengers, original, Fox, Sony Disney now owned.
Speaker 3: And so my big bad.
Speaker 1: Mojo right, No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3: I am picking.
Speaker 2: I am picking Nimrod Slash the Master Mold shut up
Speaker 2: as my big bad Okay.
Speaker 5: Can I just say I want to.
Speaker 4: Say Jason made these rules based on this list, and
Speaker 4: that picked a bunch of people who would nod the list.
Speaker 4: But I'm okay with it because I will also do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could do it. We knew that we could give.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I know it is. But he's not on
Speaker 5: the list, guys, yes.
Speaker 3: Like we know he exists. Yes, Okay, you know we
Speaker 3: wanted to be clear. I don't want to be clear
Speaker 3: that you can go off list.
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4: I am very excited to hear you explain this one
Speaker 4: because this is like such a good comic book pull and.
Speaker 5: I love it. It's gonna be so fun.
Speaker 3: So just to explain Nimrod.
Speaker 2: Master Mold, he is a highly advanced sentinel from the future.
Speaker 2: He's like the ultimate evolution of the sentinels.
Speaker 3: It's like uh.
Speaker 2: And the master Mold is another form of sentinel machine
Speaker 2: that's like a sentient sentinel factory that just like is
Speaker 2: is making sentinels like NonStop and is uh and it
Speaker 2: is very.
Speaker 3: Hard to deshore it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, Rosie, I'm excited for your big bad.
Speaker 4: Okay, So my big bad is I'm going again. This
Speaker 4: is another TV one from the list because I do
Speaker 4: just think the thing was so good. It was as
Speaker 4: good as Google as in Ravona, but she definitely got
Speaker 4: less to do. I also think we know she has
Speaker 4: the chops to be like a lead, but she's also
Speaker 4: good in that kind of Josh Brolin esque like just
Speaker 4: showing up every fifteen or ten minutes. This is also
Speaker 4: another reason I went for Ravona, because I think that
Speaker 4: Ravona represents like that cosmic element and this I'm definitely.
Speaker 5: Doing a little bit of like a you.
Speaker 4: Know, history rhymes kind of situations here. So my big
Speaker 4: bad for this is gonna be uh reoverdal Aka death
Speaker 4: because the big bad in the first mc phases were Standos.
Speaker 4: This is gonna be kind of like Death taking her
Speaker 4: kind of reconsideration of what the MCU looks like after
Speaker 4: how Fanos failed her. We can use it as a
Speaker 4: little retcon that maybe she was involved.
Speaker 5: I think there would be a lot of fun there.
Speaker 4: And also I think you need someone who essentially has
Speaker 4: a new kind of power. That's why I loved your
Speaker 4: Nimrod one because the MCU has been existing off essentially
Speaker 4: like godlike powers. We've got the as Guardians, we've got
Speaker 4: the cosmic you know, but we haven't There's certain things
Speaker 4: we haven't necessarily seen yet. We haven't really seen true
Speaker 4: sentinels in the MCU. We haven't seen like an organic
Speaker 4: you know, Nimrod esque kind of like why does this exist?
Speaker 5: Mystery?
Speaker 4: The eternals sort of promise that, yeah, And I think
Speaker 4: the same with Rio. This is like a level to
Speaker 4: essentially have Death be your villain and to be in
Speaker 4: control of your universe ally, you know, almost sort of
Speaker 4: like dark Side at the center of the absolute universe,
Speaker 4: causing a lot of harm. I think this could be
Speaker 4: a fun way to kind of like essentially at that
Speaker 4: third phase or whatever reveal why there are almost these
Speaker 4: like battle World esque kind of genre spaces, and it's
Speaker 4: to do with like how a bad emotional regulation, right,
Speaker 4: Like the way that her fucking emotions are impacting the
Speaker 4: universe I think could be really interesting.
Speaker 5: So yeah, that's my girl.
Speaker 4: She's I think if it wasn't Aubrey Plaza, there's no
Speaker 4: way I would have picked that character. But that casting
Speaker 4: was like so fucking good that you could see her
Speaker 4: pop up twenty minutes in every movie for ten years.
Speaker 4: I'd love if she got that check, you know, like
Speaker 4: how much is Thanos really in those movies if you
Speaker 4: count it? Like, I would love to see Aubrey getting
Speaker 4: that kind of crazy check. And also the characters that
Speaker 4: she can then you know, bring in or bring back
Speaker 4: are so.
Speaker 1: Fun and Rio undefeated in the MCU right now, she
Speaker 1: based off against Agatha, who's sacrificed. So basically, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: let's throw to an ad and when we come back,
Speaker 1: we'll have each of you pitch your multi phase arc
Speaker 1: and then we'll do a quick round of keep recast
Speaker 1: killed and.
Speaker 4: We'll be back.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2: Are we ready to pitch on Jason Hear. Okay, Secret
Speaker 2: Wars is over. The universe has been put back together,
Speaker 2: and everything's normal.
Speaker 3: There's just one problem.
Speaker 4: Mhm.
Speaker 2: The maker read Richards from the Wrong Universe, survived the incursions,
Speaker 2: survived the remaking of the universe, and in fact curated
Speaker 2: this new universe with the idea that superpowered people would
Speaker 2: never emerge again. He's going to make sure that that
Speaker 2: doesn't happen again. He's going to preside over a universe
Speaker 2: of just like normal fucking people. That's it as normies.
Speaker 2: To do this, he partners up with or creates, perhaps
Speaker 2: Nimrod master Mold from his records from the previous from
Speaker 2: the Other Dimensions, and gives Nimrod master Mold the mission
Speaker 2: to just in case any superpowered folks, special people, enhanced individuals,
Speaker 2: government experiments gone wrong show up, your job is to
Speaker 2: take them out, you know, and do whatever on the ground.
Speaker 2: You have the hell Fire Club, Sebastian Shaw, Emma, the
Speaker 2: whole Inner Circle. They are mutants that are underground. They're
Speaker 2: keeping their identities very very secret because they understand like
Speaker 2: the oppressive system that sits above them, and they are
Speaker 2: profiting off of this system. By basically like funding. They're
Speaker 2: like defense contractors. They're like selling saology. Yeah, like selling
Speaker 2: sentinal technology, spreading it to governments, like all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: Nobody understands it. They're mutanes.
Speaker 2: Then of course the X gene is blooming, right, kids
Speaker 2: are flying, kids are with glowing eyes. All of that
Speaker 2: stuff is happening. It gets away from uh, the Maker
Speaker 2: and the master Mold. Like the Maker is not able.
Speaker 2: He really thought like, oh, I've done it. I've created
Speaker 2: this world where like there's no super hard people.
Speaker 3: But he's wrong. They start emerging.
Speaker 2: This triggers the master Mold to start doing you know,
Speaker 2: building sentinels and builds Nimrod, of course, and this brings
Speaker 2: the Maker into conflict with his own creation. It's like
Speaker 2: a Frankenstein issue. They're they're like arguing about, you know,
Speaker 2: like because the Maker is just like I just want
Speaker 2: to rule this universe quietly from the shadows and do everything.
Speaker 3: I don't want any conflict.
Speaker 2: I just want to exactly let me, let me just
Speaker 2: be in charge. But the master Molds like, no, I
Speaker 2: sense mutants. I must like kill kill, kill kill kill.
Speaker 2: Magneto appears and he's like sick of this shit. He's
Speaker 2: sick of the government experiments. He's sick of mutants being
Speaker 2: snatched off the street and disappeared. He's sick of these
Speaker 2: this new thread of the Sentinels that have appeared on
Speaker 2: the scene, and he, from his lair and asteroid m
Speaker 2: in orbit above Earth, strikes out in terroristic fashion, you know,
Speaker 2: refashioning the gravitational waves of the Earth all that, you know,
Speaker 2: like crashing satellites, doing all this crazy shit. He is, actually,
Speaker 2: it will be revealed, working for though he doesn't know it.
Speaker 2: He's like master molds like like a false flag event
Speaker 2: to turn people against mutants, like in a massive way.
Speaker 2: You're not going to have to do it at some point, right,
Speaker 2: And so he's like he will come to realize that
Speaker 2: at a certain point. Then beneath everything, like kind of
Speaker 2: off to the side, but like but interwoven with everything
Speaker 2: is Kathan, the Elder Guard god who wrote the Dark Hold. Right,
Speaker 2: this is gonna intersect with with Wanda. There'll probably be
Speaker 2: some magic from the new Mutants intersecting with this. He's
Speaker 2: like the chaos variable that the maker can like not
Speaker 2: control because he's from a different dimension and magic resists technology,
Speaker 2: and like Nimrod and the Master Mold can't even deal
Speaker 2: with him. So it's just like this chaotic variable that
Speaker 2: shakes things up. And then in the end game there's
Speaker 2: gonna be the cosmic threat appears. This is gonna be Ultron,
Speaker 2: who didn't die after the events of Vision Quest or
Speaker 2: whatever he had sent himself to space comes back as technology,
Speaker 2: and you have this like overarching theme of like technological killers.
Speaker 2: It's like Ultron, the Master Mold, Nimrod. Are they going
Speaker 2: to work together? Are they going to work separately? Does
Speaker 2: Ultron try to hack the Master Mold. There's like a
Speaker 2: lot of different variables happening. And then somehow our assembled
Speaker 2: heroes will defeat Nimrod the Master Mold and you know
Speaker 2: Ultron somehow, although maybe that'll take place in space.
Speaker 4: Will that be like a will Ultron and Master Mold
Speaker 4: like become one at any point, because I feel like
Speaker 4: I got to see it, like an Ultron mind into
Speaker 4: master Mold or something like.
Speaker 2: Well, my I think in my mind, what I'm thinking
Speaker 2: is like Ultron is in space and he's been building
Speaker 2: like drones of himself, but it takes like a fucking
Speaker 2: long time. Then he senses that there is this sentient
Speaker 2: machine that is just pumping out sentinels and it's the
Speaker 2: answer to his to his scaling problem.
Speaker 3: He can if he can like take over the Master Mold.
Speaker 4: Yes, he can.
Speaker 3: Hump about Ultron drones one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: So there is that tension within this, uh you know,
Speaker 2: kind of epic epic drama between the heroes and the villains,
Speaker 2: and so you know this is going to be mainly
Speaker 2: an ex Men's story, but the Avengers are going to
Speaker 2: be involved and they're gonna have to team up to
Speaker 2: take down these threats. At some point, Nimrod and the
Speaker 2: Master Mold kill the Maker. They just kind of licker,
Speaker 2: like enough with your thank you for making this world,
Speaker 2: but you're gone. And then also at a certain point,
Speaker 2: when Magneto realizes that he's been had and he was
Speaker 2: like the false flag for the Master Mold, he flips
Speaker 2: and becomes the good a good guy along with the
Speaker 2: rest of the X Men and Avengers and then fights
Speaker 2: fights the evil machines. Okay, that's my imagining new phases
Speaker 2: like Ultron speaking to Master Mold, and that's the Drake
Speaker 2: Liliati meme where.
Speaker 1: He's assembly lines. All right, Rosie, what's your pitch for
Speaker 1: your your six chosen villains. Remind us one more time
Speaker 1: who you've got to I've got my cosmic as Galactus.
Speaker 5: My variant is she Hulk.
Speaker 4: My street level is Jaijai Lang from the tem Rings
Speaker 4: and the Tim Rings and shang Chi Scarlet Witch obviously
Speaker 4: the Queen. We also have a Ravona Renslayer as the Henchman,
Speaker 4: and our big bad is Reovid our Death. So this
Speaker 4: is post Secret Wars. Everything's dead, no one knows what's
Speaker 4: happening with the MCU, So we're going big. We're gonna
Speaker 4: pitch the first movie as it's called Happily ever After,
Speaker 4: and it's like we got We're gonna say this. We're
Speaker 4: gonna be like, look, we gotta work out what's happening
Speaker 4: with the next phases. We don't want to end up
Speaker 4: in a situation like with Phase five and six, like
Speaker 4: we're gonna take our time. So this is just a
Speaker 4: nice little like Old Universe type movie of like what
Speaker 4: if things worked out?
Speaker 5: But the truth is that's not the case.
Speaker 4: What's gonna happen is we will open first movie and
Speaker 4: it's essentially like what if everything is good for everyone?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 5: So like Peter and MJ are still together. You get
Speaker 5: your twenty minutes, and then you.
Speaker 4: Pull out and you realize that essentially you kind of
Speaker 4: have Lactus and Scarlet Witch who are combining their powers
Speaker 4: to kind of create this fake version of what is
Speaker 4: going on on Earth, and that would be a cold
Speaker 4: open twenty minutes in when you realize, like, fuck, actually
Speaker 4: things are not good. Like you get your twenty minutes,
Speaker 4: it's a little house of them, right, But we're not
Speaker 4: fully going there because that.
Speaker 5: Includes a lot over of stuff to be dealing with.
Speaker 5: But what we will do is we're leaning into.
Speaker 4: Scarlet, which is reality warping powers here, and she is
Speaker 4: being convinced to do this because if she does this
Speaker 4: for the world, she can do it to have her babies, right,
Speaker 4: It's the thing that always drives her. So we will
Speaker 4: get to see that in this world people don't have superpowers.
Speaker 4: But we will see that Giling and the Ten Rings
Speaker 4: is running the street, and we will see that there
Speaker 4: are kind of these street level characters, your loot Cage's,
Speaker 4: your Daughters of the Dragons, who are coming out in
Speaker 4: this kind of more street level, lower budget sort of
Speaker 4: way where people are going to go Okay, so we're
Speaker 4: getting a bit of that Marvel street level we never got.
Speaker 4: But then obviously the big thing that will happen here
Speaker 4: is that by the end of our first kind of
Speaker 4: phase well and really the first movie, people on the
Speaker 4: ground will start to realize that it's not real, you know,
Speaker 4: that this is a post incursion kind of situation where
Speaker 4: they're being mind manipulated. We will then pull out to
Speaker 4: the next phase, which is essentially where when that is revealed,
Speaker 4: Renslayer and Galactus will make their move onto Earth and
Speaker 4: they will start to kind of, you know, lay down
Speaker 4: the cosmic laws about what's going to happen. And then eventually,
Speaker 4: you know, that is when you really get into your
Speaker 4: kind of She Hulk is essentially like a hunting dog
Speaker 4: for Scarlet, Witch for Ravona, and she is just going
Speaker 4: around like finding people who have powers, killing them. She's
Speaker 4: going crazy. She's controlled by the gamma radiation. Of course,
Speaker 4: hopefully at some point she will be able to break
Speaker 4: free of that and turn into more of an ally,
Speaker 4: and eventually you will find out that all of this
Speaker 4: is just you know, it's just Rio wanting her half
Speaker 4: a million billion bodies that Thanos never gave to her,
Speaker 4: and she's kind of resentful of it, she's mad about it,
Speaker 4: and she's kind of trying to reshape the world in
Speaker 4: her own vision. But I think what's more interesting and
Speaker 4: defines it a little bit from the Thanos story, is like,
Speaker 4: this is really focused on Earth. It's focused on the
Speaker 4: people Rio knows, the heroes we know. It's not a
Speaker 4: universal thing, it's not a galactic thing. This is like
Speaker 4: a personal mission for her, and it can go cosmic.
Speaker 4: I mean, we have Galactus, but I think bringing it
Speaker 4: back down to one planet, one place where all of
Speaker 4: our heroes that we want to introduce are is going
Speaker 4: to help with a little bit of that MCU sprawl.
Speaker 4: And I would imagine that as sort of like a
Speaker 4: three phase plan where at the end you reveal you
Speaker 4: know your big bad is Rio, say you're six seven
Speaker 4: years into it in my dreams, Then I think you
Speaker 4: could also, And this is gonna lead into our next conversation.
Speaker 4: But then also, like who doesn't want to see Death
Speaker 4: and Rio together, Like Rio and Thanos together, you know,
Speaker 4: that's a you pull in those big guns later for
Speaker 4: that eventual story. So yeah, that's that's where I'm That's
Speaker 4: where I'm at that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 5: It's gonna be a.
Speaker 4: Little like horrory revenge cosmic won Division inspired kind of
Speaker 4: run through of almost a way to recontextualize I guess
Speaker 4: phases five and six two when I look at the
Speaker 4: characters I picked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's super fun.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of like potentially having Doomsday and
Speaker 1: then Secret Wars, and then at the end of Secret
Speaker 1: Wars it's like the Avengers will turn in Avengers happily
Speaker 1: ever after. I love, Right, that's just shadowed silly, But then.
Speaker 4: You know the cold open twenty minutes, you know it
Speaker 4: will be happily never after, or it will be like,
Speaker 4: you know, Death's revenge or whatever silly kind of headline
Speaker 4: you wanted to.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that was so good.
Speaker 4: Okay, guys, let's go to a break and when we
Speaker 4: come back, we'll do a little bit of keep Recast
Speaker 4: Kill about the rest of those crazy villains.
Speaker 6: Eh, and we're back, all right.
Speaker 1: So I have highlighted three villains from each of our
Speaker 1: sections that I want you to pick keep Recast Kill.
Speaker 1: So first off, we're gonna go tech in science. Our
Speaker 1: keep recast Kill is justin Hammer Modoc and the leader.
Speaker 4: For me, I'm definitely recasting Modoc. I'm sorry to that man,
Speaker 4: but that's like that is just one of the biggest
Speaker 4: misses for me. I love that character, scary character, kill
Speaker 4: the Leader. Sorry to that man. Also, Yeah, and then
Speaker 4: I think keep Justin Hammer. That's such a fucking fantastic casting,
Speaker 4: and Rockwell kills it and we all want to see
Speaker 4: him come back.
Speaker 2: You were discussing, of course, Cory Stall, who I thought
Speaker 2: was wonderfully demented as Yellow Jacket slash Darren Cross. But
Speaker 2: I agree with you there from the moment of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was not Yeah, it's not your fault, Corey,
Speaker 4: it was the script.
Speaker 1: Uh, Jason, who do you?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: If you want to pick for Keeper Gay.
Speaker 3: Let's try it. Let's try ideologically driven.
Speaker 1: Okay, ideologically driven, keep recast kill we have kill Monger,
Speaker 1: Can the Conqueror and Cassandra Nova.
Speaker 2: Sh oh fuck hmm, Okay, I am going to keep
Speaker 2: kill Monger.
Speaker 5: I think correct.
Speaker 2: Among the he is they were right villains in the MCU,
Speaker 2: He's maybe the most.
Speaker 3: They were right.
Speaker 5: Definitely.
Speaker 2: Obviously I take issue with his methods, but.
Speaker 5: Just the end where he just killed someone. They always
Speaker 5: do that, the end when a good point.
Speaker 2: I think this fixes a lot of problems. Let's recast King.
Speaker 3: Agree, solve it, Let's just do it.
Speaker 2: We've got a lot of load bearing problems based on
Speaker 2: the actor cast to play that character.
Speaker 3: So let's just change that.
Speaker 2: And then I am sorry to Charles's twin sister, Cassandra Nova,
Speaker 2: but I am going to kill her. I think it's
Speaker 2: just maybe too confusing at this early stage, when we
Speaker 2: haven't even really introduced Charles proper to then also have
Speaker 2: Cassandra Nova. So for now we can kill her and
Speaker 2: then and listen, it's Cassandra Nova.
Speaker 3: She's she'll probably come back, come back.
Speaker 2: She'd come back later when it's when it when people
Speaker 2: are ready for her.
Speaker 1: Rosie, I have one that's close to your heart now,
Speaker 1: Cosmic Icarus, the Celestials or Silver Surfer. I'm killing.
Speaker 5: I hate that other fucker. Get rid of him. Don't
Speaker 5: care that he was part of the first sex scene.
Speaker 5: Kick him out.
Speaker 4: Arisham and the Celestials, I mean, let's keep him.
Speaker 5: We don't need to recast them. They're good.
Speaker 4: I think I want to know what Arisham's fucking judgment
Speaker 4: is gonna be, even if no one else does.
Speaker 5: I did my best to.
Speaker 4: Not bring that in because it was just too obvious
Speaker 4: to bring that in after Anon.
Speaker 1: Cussion got to give you some spot for it.
Speaker 5: Look, I love Julia.
Speaker 4: I think the idea of Shallabal is really cool, but
Speaker 4: I don't think that they delivered on it. And the
Speaker 4: Fantastic four. I think that she can come back another time.
Speaker 4: So let's recast Silver Surfar and keep him in the universe,
Speaker 4: because that is all them whoever, whichever version you want
Speaker 4: it to be. I just think a lot of potential
Speaker 4: there that has yet to be tapped.
Speaker 1: All right, Jason, Shady government and Hydra mostly Hydra really,
Speaker 1: but Red Hulk, Red Skull, Arnam Zola, keep recast kill.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep Arnamzola because I'm going computers. I'm
Speaker 2: going computers, sentinels, tech villains.
Speaker 4: True.
Speaker 2: I think Zol is his time he needs. He's in
Speaker 2: desperate need of an upgrade. You know, we can put
Speaker 2: him on solid state hard drives and not these tape drives,
Speaker 2: and I think, finally, shrink him down, get him, get
Speaker 2: him to a manageable size, and I think he can
Speaker 2: be a fantastic villain. I am going to recast. I'm
Speaker 2: going to recast the Red Hulk. Yep, it's time because
Speaker 2: I just feel like, you know, Harrison Ford doesn't seem
Speaker 2: that interested in anything other than almost killing himself in airplanes.
Speaker 3: Two things he does.
Speaker 2: Love shrinking, right, because you're just like in one place exactly,
Speaker 2: And it kind of feels like we can do better
Speaker 2: with the Red Hulk and have a more I don't know,
Speaker 2: just like have a a person who's more invested. And
Speaker 2: then that that means we're gonna have to kill the reds.
Speaker 3: Who is already dead.
Speaker 2: Ye, hypothetically, I just feel like the Red Skull, we
Speaker 2: don't need him in these trees.
Speaker 5: We've done it man, exactly. We don't need a fashion.
Speaker 5: We've seen it enough times. It's fine.
Speaker 1: And I guess technically Red Skull met Captain America again,
Speaker 1: probably when Kap was returning the soul Stone, so like
Speaker 1: he had a conclusion to his story.
Speaker 3: We're Captain is intriguing to see you again?
Speaker 5: He kissing your girlfriend.
Speaker 3: It was a center to a death and yeah.
Speaker 5: There you are kissing.
Speaker 4: I wonder if this will have any ramifications incursion wise, there.
Speaker 3: Is a body down that in this shallow pool of water.
Speaker 1: Do we want to do one more each Okay, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: Rosie as Guardians okay, Coffie, Hella and Gore oh.
Speaker 4: Woof, Okay, I think let's keep Hella. She was unbelievable.
Speaker 4: Obviously we love her. You know, she can come back.
Speaker 4: She's got us of death. That's definitely another one who
Speaker 4: could come into play with Rio. I would love to
Speaker 4: see those two together.
Speaker 5: We will.
Speaker 4: Let's kill Louthy even though I do like her like weird,
Speaker 4: It's just like, let's be real. That would be so
Speaker 4: may to pick him instead. And you know what, Christian
Speaker 4: Bale was amazing as Gore. Ye he did a great job,
Speaker 4: but you know what, let's give someone else a try.
Speaker 5: Let's do it.
Speaker 4: I feel like he did his best, like he's the
Speaker 4: best part of him and the daughter.
Speaker 5: The love stuff in that movie is like so good.
Speaker 4: It still hits for me, Like it even pays off
Speaker 4: for me at the end when Thor is raising her,
Speaker 4: Like I like those kind of empathetic.
Speaker 5: Stories, so I think there's more you can do there.
Speaker 4: I also think God's are fun because you can recast
Speaker 4: them and you can reimagine them again and again and again.
Speaker 5: So yeah, that's that's my picks for the as gods. Oh, Jason,
Speaker 5: you got the one that I did not want to get.
Speaker 1: So I'm yeah, mystical and magical. Your three keep recast kill.
Speaker 1: You got Morto, you Gotsto, and you got Mamu dor Mamu.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm gonna go. I am gonna go. Keep Morto.
Speaker 2: I thought he was great and we haven't seen him again.
Speaker 5: And Chip, what'll we love you post backrooms?
Speaker 3: Bring him back, bring him back.
Speaker 2: I love the you know, the the kind of conflict
Speaker 2: that he had with Strange is really I would love
Speaker 2: to see him back. You know, they were they were allies,
Speaker 2: but now they're against each other. It's great, it'd be great.
Speaker 2: He has like an intimate knowledge of Strange as a
Speaker 2: guy and knew him before Strange could do any magic
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 5: I think it's great.
Speaker 3: We're recasting my fisto.
Speaker 2: Let's just do it, please, Okay, yeah, let's just recast it.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: Let's just now. I really struggled here because I thought,
Speaker 2: maybe we kill Mephisto. But I also feel like people
Speaker 2: have been there's been there has been so much hype
Speaker 2: around Mephisto and when he would show up, and now
Speaker 2: he's shown up and you know, and it was kind.
Speaker 3: Of kind of underwhelming.
Speaker 2: As the as the satanic owner of a pizza shop.
Speaker 3: To have him appear in that way.
Speaker 2: And so we're gonna we're just gonna recast that and
Speaker 2: and and build some excitement around some new integration with
Speaker 2: Mephisto within the MCU, and then we are going to
Speaker 2: do away a ka, kill dor Mamo, who really is
Speaker 2: cgi anywhere?
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, like that, you can kill him.
Speaker 2: You can get it's there's no face. It's just like
Speaker 2: a blob face in space. Let's get rid of him.
Speaker 2: And he very very cool villain. There's always you know,
Speaker 2: room for like a kid door Mama or something like
Speaker 2: that later on down the line. But we're gonna have
Speaker 2: to kill Dormmo and keep recast.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that, Yeah, sorry, bro, I mean that's just
Speaker 1: another Benedict cumber cumber Patch right voiceovers.
Speaker 5: So I was gonna say, I think he'll be over.
Speaker 3: Let's let's split the last the street level.
Speaker 7: Let's I was gonna say, this is actually the hardest one,
Speaker 7: all right, Okay, we have task Master Sidewinder and the Hood,
Speaker 7: keep recast kill.
Speaker 4: This is so hard, Okay, Honestly, none of these are
Speaker 4: good enough to keep.
Speaker 5: That's the harshest thing.
Speaker 4: But like I think, I think, I think I gotta
Speaker 4: re I think I gotta I gotta recast task Master.
Speaker 4: I just feel like there's so much potential, and like
Speaker 4: I know that there's other people here. Parker Robins could
Speaker 4: also got recast. Sorry, my guy, but I I love
Speaker 4: task Master the character. I love the girl version of
Speaker 4: task Master. I think that's a cool idea. But we
Speaker 4: never got true toss Master. We never got toss Master
Speaker 4: who could immediately understand somebody else's powers. Echo was more
Speaker 4: kind of like that, which was fun. Maybe, you know,
Speaker 4: I would love to see her. Maybe we get Echo
Speaker 4: as task Master. They have similar power bases in the comics. Like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I feel like tos Masta has
Speaker 4: so much potential and is such a fun character, and
Speaker 4: it was in such a.
Speaker 5: Bleak, grim dark movie with Black Widow that I just
Speaker 5: don't think we got to have the fun. So I'm
Speaker 5: stealing recast for tass Master.
Speaker 3: Okay, I am going to keep task Master.
Speaker 2: Actually, I think that I think we just to your point,
Speaker 2: we didn't get enough. But I like, I like the actor,
Speaker 2: and I think that we just need more. There's so
Speaker 2: much more dramatic juice there that we just didn't didn't use,
Speaker 2: And I would like, I think task Master is a
Speaker 2: cool character. I think using task Master in the world
Speaker 2: is like this trainer for hire for villains, and anybody
Speaker 2: who has more is such as like a cool idea
Speaker 2: that I would love to see them do. So I'm
Speaker 2: gonna keep task Master. I am going to recast Parker
Speaker 2: Robbins the Hood fat sorry, sorry to that man Anthony
Speaker 2: Ramos a ka the manager of the evil pizza rest
Speaker 2: that is.
Speaker 3: Owned by the visit.
Speaker 2: But but but I think that it's a cool character
Speaker 2: that we I don't know, didn't get enough juice with,
Speaker 2: and I would like to see more from a kind
Speaker 2: of like magical street level organized crime figure. And then listen, Sidewinder,
Speaker 2: it's just kind of irrelevant. Sadly, I know well that
Speaker 2: no one will miss no one will miss the Sidewinder.
Speaker 4: But you see, this is the thing, this is why
Speaker 4: we split because I agree. I'm actually just gonna.
Speaker 5: Kill the Hood actually because like I just think.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 5: I'm keeping Sidewinder because that is called us uh.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's so it's great casting just bring
Speaker 4: him back in a different movie that's better or a
Speaker 4: TV show.
Speaker 5: So that would be my picks.
Speaker 4: But this was honestly the hardest section I think with
Speaker 4: the three that Aaron picked because it's a mess.
Speaker 5: So I think that it was good that we split.
Speaker 4: This one because I do feel like all the options
Speaker 4: are not great, but there's also a lot of potential
Speaker 4: which we.
Speaker 2: Lovett Let's make Aaron do one. Okay, I'm gonna do
Speaker 2: a pick. Okay, you picked the bucket, and then I'll
Speaker 2: select the villain.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love this.
Speaker 1: A bucket that we didn't do. I mean, let's do Uh.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of ideologically driven ones. Do that
Speaker 1: or mystical in Magic?
Speaker 2: I think those are those are Okay, let's do Let's
Speaker 2: do mystical and magic. Sinister Strange, the dweller in Darkness.
Speaker 5: Torturing him, I know, and.
Speaker 1: Case Oh okay, I will keep Kyilius, I think, because yeah,
Speaker 1: when you get him in there, I'm going to kill
Speaker 1: Sinister Strange. That movie just not for you. Yeah. My
Speaker 1: joke in there was that he battled another Strange. He
Speaker 1: lost and was thrown out of a window, where he
Speaker 1: fell onto a fence and was impaled. Meanwhile, I'm on
Speaker 1: the fence about whether or not I even want to
Speaker 1: acknowledge this movie. I did not. I did not like
Speaker 1: that movie. So kill Sinister and I guess, how do
Speaker 1: you recast the Dweller in Darkness like another CGI floating monster.
Speaker 5: I guess you could.
Speaker 4: I guess is that if you think about like a
Speaker 4: voice actor or someone that would be really fun, as
Speaker 4: like the voice of a creature like that that lives
Speaker 4: in a cave, Like who would you pick.
Speaker 1: A creature that lives in a cave? Can we get
Speaker 1: can we get Marty to come in and just do voice? Yes?
Speaker 5: He want of my sandwich? One of my sandwich for me?
Speaker 1: I guess. Then you recast Sinister Strange so you actually
Speaker 1: have some like variant level villain that that could be there,
Speaker 1: and you kill Dweller in Darkness and keep Kysilius. I
Speaker 1: think Kysilius it would be great to see him again.
Speaker 1: I loved his back and forth barbs with Strange in
Speaker 1: the first movie. That was something that you know, I
Speaker 1: I don't love mirror match villains. That's one of my
Speaker 1: probably biggest issues with a lot of Marvel villain stuff
Speaker 1: and superhero villains in general, and Kysilius was a bit
Speaker 1: of a mirror match, but I also thought his his
Speaker 1: attitude was just like good enough that I was okay
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 4: Mickelson and Komba Batch had good kind of thor very
Speaker 4: good fun chemistry.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh that was so fun, Aaron, I liked your picks.
Speaker 1: Good job, awesome, We thank you guys.
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a quick break and come back
Speaker 2: and just briefly discuss what we think about villains in
Speaker 2: the MCU and how the MCU can solve the so
Speaker 2: called villain problem. And we're back, Okay, the villain problem.
Speaker 2: Here's how I would define the villain problem. Tell us,
Speaker 2: I think the villain problem is primarily the fact that
Speaker 2: villains there's no middle ground with the villains in comics, right,
Speaker 2: a villain is defeated and either dies or is sent
Speaker 2: to jail or is imprisoned in an altered dimension or
Speaker 2: the negative zone or.
Speaker 3: What have you.
Speaker 2: But they figure out a way to escape and come
Speaker 2: back and come back stronger. And we have yet to
Speaker 2: see in the mc U, you know, a real double
Speaker 2: dip villain, a villain who was defeated and then came
Speaker 2: back stronger.
Speaker 5: Obvious, right, like you.
Speaker 2: Right, and the problem is yeah right Thanos Thanos. Nonwithstanding,
Speaker 2: although there's like.
Speaker 4: Some he's the problem that solves the rule that so
Speaker 4: so a problem. Yes, it's like an interesting situation.
Speaker 2: Part of this problem is that when is our villains
Speaker 2: can feel very disposable because they get defeated, you know,
Speaker 2: Morto kay Cilia's like, there's just so many of these
Speaker 2: Alexander Pierce is rip, but you know, like they're gone,
Speaker 2: sit well, and they never come back or don't come
Speaker 2: back from defeat in a way that allows them to
Speaker 2: still have an impact. And thus it can kind of
Speaker 2: feel like you're just flipping through villains and that whoever
Speaker 2: the villain you're gonna see next in a non crossover
Speaker 2: movie doesn't feel like a big enough threat mysterio. I
Speaker 2: think there's a great example of I thought, like a
Speaker 2: really great villain that it would be like, I could
Speaker 2: imagine a million ways that villain is not dead, right,
Speaker 2: a trick that he faked death and fooled Peter. So
Speaker 2: how do we solve this problem in the future phases.
Speaker 4: Ian put a great comment in where he's like the
Speaker 4: so called age of Ultron it lasted like a week,
Speaker 4: you know, like it's like that is an issue.
Speaker 5: I think you're right, how do we solve this problem?
Speaker 4: We were having some interesting conversations when we were prepping
Speaker 4: for this episode, like Marvel has often had a villain problem.
Speaker 5: But the funny thing is, for a.
Speaker 4: Long time, when it came to the movies and stuff,
Speaker 4: we would say, oh, well, that's because they don't have Galactus.
Speaker 4: They don't have these huge, tier, top tier s tier villains.
Speaker 4: Now they have them, and I feel like there's still
Speaker 4: not one hundred percent sure. I think it also might
Speaker 4: be a scaling issue, because if you haves who are
Speaker 4: like god Tia villains, but your heroes are often like
Speaker 4: more street level or more emotionally grounded, that can feel
Speaker 4: very unwinnable in a way that can start to feel
Speaker 4: repetitive if the small guy always wins.
Speaker 2: Right, I completely agree, completely, Like, how is Spider Man
Speaker 2: supposed to fight Galactus?
Speaker 5: Exactly right?
Speaker 3: That's what's work.
Speaker 4: And in the comics there's a lot more freedom and silliness.
Speaker 4: The Unbeatable squirrel Girl that's her name, so she always
Speaker 4: beats him, right, But in the movies you establish these
Speaker 4: kind of grounded power sets and power leveling and power
Speaker 4: scaling and who is that?
Speaker 5: Who can shoot this? And how many buildings get destroyed?
Speaker 4: You start to think about it in a way, there's
Speaker 4: a lot more realistic, and I think that can make
Speaker 4: it harder to make great villains. I mean, also, I
Speaker 4: would say this is an oversaturation problem, as we can
Speaker 4: see from the fact that Aaron found one hundred and
Speaker 4: ten villains and we didn't even remember to include the
Speaker 4: Fox villains, right, Like, it's actually insane that there have
Speaker 4: been over one hundred villains in you know, under one
Speaker 4: hundred movies.
Speaker 5: Let's put it that way.
Speaker 3: I mean, speaks to the disposability problem.
Speaker 5: Right, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So here's my here's the solution that I have, And
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a perfect solution, but I think
Speaker 2: it can help. I think, first of all, more villain Teama.
Speaker 2: We hardly have any villain team ups honestly, like you
Speaker 2: have like a boss villain and the various like unnamed
Speaker 2: or lower level henchmen like we saw with Sidewinder, right yeah,
Speaker 2: And I think we can take some of the mid
Speaker 2: tier to higher tier villains and have them all get
Speaker 2: together and be like, how do we beat these guys,
Speaker 2: we keep getting beaten like Kingpin. You know, this is
Speaker 2: obviously pulling from the comics, but like, what if the
Speaker 2: Kingpin and the Hood and that of the Hand all
Speaker 2: got together and we're like, we're tired of getting beaten
Speaker 2: by Matt Murdochoo, we know is the fucking daredevil, Like,
Speaker 2: let's finally take the city over. And so I think
Speaker 2: that there is a way to structure the villains so
Speaker 2: that the more disposable villains are set up as kind
Speaker 2: of in the way like Loki was set up with Thanos,
Speaker 2: where they're they're a threat, but they're put in place
Speaker 2: as chess pieces by other masterminds exactly.
Speaker 5: I think you're right.
Speaker 4: I also would say as well, I think that there
Speaker 4: is a tendency with the way that comics are viewed,
Speaker 4: in the way stories are viewed, that they are disposable,
Speaker 4: that the characters are disposable. Right, That's like the nature
Speaker 4: of something that was made to be sold to children
Speaker 4: for twenty five cents printed on newsprint. And I do
Speaker 4: think you make a great point, Jason. I think a
Speaker 4: lot no surprise to anyone who's listened to this podcast,
Speaker 4: but like I think a lot about the Wrecking Crew, right.
Speaker 4: They were introduced by Cody Zigler, one of our pals. Yeah,
Speaker 4: in Chihulks, so much fun, so much to do there,
Speaker 4: But like, that is a group I would follow just
Speaker 4: in their own show, right, and in that they're basically
Speaker 4: a one and dune villain, right, And that I think
Speaker 4: is also another thing is like how do you establish
Speaker 4: the real lives of street level villains who are driven
Speaker 4: to try and survive in this MCU world in a
Speaker 4: way that makes you empathize with them. I mean, look,
Speaker 4: it's funny because we say they have a villain problem,
Speaker 4: but look at kill Manga, look at even Flag Smasher, right,
Speaker 4: a lot of times they actually make these incredible villains
Speaker 4: who are very, very emotionally resonant, and then they say
Speaker 4: we'll have them kill six people because we need them
Speaker 4: to know that evil. So I think that's also a problem.
Speaker 2: I think they need to figure out a way that
Speaker 2: the villains without making like in a whatever some phase
Speaker 2: seven or eight Avengers movie part one and part two,
Speaker 2: before you really get to the big crossover stuff. I
Speaker 2: think they need to figure out a way that the
Speaker 2: bad guys can win. This is part of the problem
Speaker 2: is like that.
Speaker 3: You just like knew that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when when if we had an in when if
Speaker 4: we had an infinite you wore again.
Speaker 2: You knew they weren't gonna win. Boy, you knew Mortal
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna win. What you need is like the Masters
Speaker 2: of Evil to actually beat the Avengers in a story
Speaker 2: somewhere like comprehensively, like Breakthor's arm, throw Jail out of
Speaker 2: a window, kill Captain America, killed Jermus, kill somebody, right,
Speaker 2: and that needs to be the end of.
Speaker 3: Some movie or story.
Speaker 2: There needs to be a real cost in curd by
Speaker 2: these villains, and we haven't seen that except for the
Speaker 2: big bad villains who are allowed to kill people. I
Speaker 2: think you need to allow the medium tier villains to
Speaker 2: get wins in order to really like solve the villain problem.
Speaker 3: Like the Green Goblin.
Speaker 2: Can't get beaten at the end of every single Spidery
Speaker 2: like he has to win at some point.
Speaker 3: You have to let him win.
Speaker 2: Or a middle right, it could be a victory for
Speaker 2: the hero that is so costly that it feels like
Speaker 2: a defeat.
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, they need to figure that out. I totally agree. Okay, Jason.
Speaker 4: The big question obviously then, because that's kind of our
Speaker 4: general MCU thoughts and feelings. Do you feel that the
Speaker 4: Robert Downey Junior Doctor Do is going to extrapolate or
Speaker 4: help the MCU villain problem, because that is really our
Speaker 4: biggest question at this point.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's it's I think we're basically
Speaker 2: doing the same thing we did in the past, which
Speaker 2: is a little concerning, which is you're the only really
Speaker 2: villains that matter these crossover level threats, whether it be
Speaker 2: Thanos or Or or Doctor Doom. And agree, I do
Speaker 2: think that, you know, I have all the belief in
Speaker 2: the world as in Robert Downey Junior as a charismatic villain.
Speaker 2: I think there's bound to be surprises. But I am
Speaker 2: a little worried that you're setting up a paradigm once
Speaker 2: again where it's like, okay, and then you beat Doctor Doom,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 5: What and then exactly right then then who's next?
Speaker 4: Because that's also something I worry about is now they
Speaker 4: do have these fantastic full villains, they are running through
Speaker 4: them a fucking expedited race. It's like you already felt this, guys,
Speaker 4: like calm down before you FLI up something else like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what that's a great point, is like, it
Speaker 2: would be great if they could have beaten Galactus in
Speaker 2: a way that felt like not a full defeat. And
Speaker 2: that's what they're gonna have to figure out in the
Speaker 2: future is villains that make the heroes pay a cost,
Speaker 2: and even if you kill them.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is comics.
Speaker 2: We're talking about, can they come back, or can they
Speaker 2: come back in a different form, and how can they
Speaker 2: come back or how can their ideological fight live on
Speaker 2: and inspire others to then become the villains that take
Speaker 2: that villain's place. You've just got to figure out a
Speaker 2: way for that threat to feel because to your point, Rosie,
Speaker 2: I think we've got an escalation a power escalation problem
Speaker 2: where it's like the only thing that matters is these
Speaker 2: threats that can destroy all of reality. And it makes
Speaker 2: it feel as if, you know, obviously Spider Man's going
Speaker 2: to be a big hit, but it's hard to it's
Speaker 2: hard to feel like the Green Goblin fucking matters when
Speaker 2: there's a guy out there that exactly every planet in
Speaker 2: the Solar System. So we've just got to make those
Speaker 2: lower level villains more dangerous period. Agree, Well, this was
Speaker 2: really fun thank you.
Speaker 5: Yes, I love this. Thanks Aaron, Thanks Ian, you killed it.
Speaker 5: We love Impending Doomsday.
Speaker 2: On the next episode of xtra Vision, We're diving into
Speaker 2: X Men ninety seven once again, and then Oh Boys,
Speaker 2: bider Man, Brandy Day, Oh Bye.
Speaker 3: That's it for this episode.
Speaker 2: Boo x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepts Young
Speaker 2: and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Joel Menique and Aaron Kolefman.
Speaker 3: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 4: Our produces are Common, Laurent Danjel Nathan and Fey Wack.
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 4: Heidi our discord moderator.