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Speaker 1: Mmm, hello friends, I am Robert Evans, and this is

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell you everything

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Speaker 1: you don't know that's the very worst people in all

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Speaker 1: of history. And today is part two of our epic

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Speaker 1: two parter on Momar Kaddafi, the Colonel, the dictator of

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Speaker 1: Libya and one of, if not the craziest people to

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Speaker 1: ever run a country. In part one, we went through

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Speaker 1: how Momar conquered all of Libya, overthrew the existing government

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Speaker 1: with the help of a bunch of friends he made

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Speaker 1: in high school. We talked about his Amazonian bodyguards, we

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Speaker 1: talked about his crazy theories on how the world ought

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Speaker 1: to run, and how the start of his brutal, repressive

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Speaker 1: state kind of went against everything that he claimed in

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Speaker 1: his rhetoric to want for the world. So now we

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Speaker 1: are getting in two more about Mama Kadafi. This episode

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Speaker 1: is going to include how he spent his fabulous oil wealth,

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Speaker 1: how he became maybe the richest man on earth, and

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Speaker 1: how he delivered probably the craziest speech ever delivered at

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Speaker 1: the United Nations. And oh, this is going to feature

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Speaker 1: a little cameo from a guy you may have heard of,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So let's get into it. Uh. Now, the

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Speaker 1: entire oil and gas industry of Libya was under Colonel

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Speaker 1: Kadafi's personal control. He managed that part of the country

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Speaker 1: very hands on. By the time of his death in

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, he was thought to have amassed a

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Speaker 1: fortune squirreled around the world of over two hundred billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: which put him way ahead of Jeff Bezos at the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was probably the richest man in the world when

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Speaker 1: he died. It's hard to say, because he hit a

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Speaker 1: bunch of money in all sorts of places. Libya was

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Speaker 1: making something at its height like a billion dollars a

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Speaker 1: day in the oil revenue, and a lot of that

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Speaker 1: went to fund projects. But it seems like that he

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Speaker 1: was treating his people a little better than than Jeff Bezos.

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Speaker 1: You could argue that, I mean, they all had healthcare.

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Speaker 1: The Libyans did have a better healthcare plan than Amazon employees. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Um So, Kadafi spent a huge amount of Libya's wealth

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Speaker 1: supporting terrorists and revolutionary groups around the world. Um. There

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Speaker 1: was no real through line between them other than that

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Speaker 1: they were all rebelling. He supported the Ira, the Basque

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Speaker 1: separatists in Spain, Iraqi Kurds. He was actually the only

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Speaker 1: Arab leader to support the Iraqi Kurds. He backed the Sandinistas,

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Speaker 1: the Red Brigades in Italy and Japan, Carlos the Jackal,

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Speaker 1: numerous groups across Africa. Almost every bomb used by the

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Speaker 1: ira during the height of their terror and like the

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Speaker 1: eighties and the nineties, was believed to have been made

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Speaker 1: using Simtex explosives shipped out of Libyan ports. He was

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Speaker 1: the man for international terrorists. So if terrorists were indie films,

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Speaker 1: He's like Harvey Wines. He is. He is the Harvey

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Speaker 1: Wine Stain of terrorism. You nailed it. Yeah, yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: the Harvey Wine Stain of terror. Yeah. And the ira

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Speaker 1: Is has been Affleck Yeah oh yeah, absolutely yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there we go. I apologize. I all right. You guys

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Speaker 1: deserve better than be compared to benaff Like, that's not fair.

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Speaker 1: The ira has better tattoos, yeah, um, and they're better

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Speaker 1: at music. I don't know if Ben Affleck has a band, right,

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Speaker 1: he has to. He has to have a terrory bet

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Speaker 1: he plays a guitar every now and then at a party, okay, um.

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Speaker 1: So Kadafi also supported a bunch of legitimate governments across Africa,

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Speaker 1: sending the money and even troops to help them in

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Speaker 1: their wars. In return, he convinced almost thirty African nations

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Speaker 1: to cut off contact and diplomatic ties with Israel. UM

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Speaker 1: Colonel Kadafi's greatest African coup was convincing Jean Benell Bokasa,

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Speaker 1: the Emperor of Central Africa, to convert to Islam. Kadafi

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Speaker 1: personally handled his conversion ceremony and gave him one million

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Speaker 1: dollars as a gift. This money, and Kaddafi's money in general,

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Speaker 1: was sorely needed by Bocasa because he had almost bankrupted

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Speaker 1: the Central African Republic with an outrageously expensive, eighty million

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Speaker 1: dollar coronation ceremony. We're going to talk about Macaza Sunday.

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Speaker 1: So there's like Roman eagles made out of throw just

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Speaker 1: that detail. It was just brilliant. Becasa converted back to Christianity,

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Speaker 1: the religion of eight of his people, three months later.

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Speaker 1: It was at a lastic victory. Yeah. Um. Libya occupies

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Speaker 1: an awkward geographical and cultural position. It's part of Africa,

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Speaker 1: but its population is Arab. Kaddafi initially hoped he might

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Speaker 1: be the leader of a vast Arab resurgence across the

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Speaker 1: Middle East and North Africa, but he quickly alienated everyone

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Speaker 1: else in the Arab world. So once that door was closed,

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Speaker 1: he decided to try his hand at uniting Africa instead.

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Speaker 1: So he had to chow options. He figured, yeah, m

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Speaker 1: he was aiding in a united Africa or the Arab world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was his goal. Why because he never he never

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Speaker 1: Libya was too small for him. He didn't just he

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Speaker 1: wanted to be leader. And he looked at the Middle East,

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Speaker 1: you like, He's like, no, they're not going to go

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Speaker 1: for it. It was more like as a kid, he

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Speaker 1: was he was really into Gamil Nasser, who was like

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Speaker 1: the president of Egypt, who was like an pan Arab

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Speaker 1: nationalist all basically reuniting the Ottoman Empire kind of deal, right,

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Speaker 1: and that was Kadafi's dream for a while. But all

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Speaker 1: of the other Arab leaders came to hate him. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was like, okay, those guys hate me, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go somewhere where I haven't burnt bridges as much. So,

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Speaker 1: like his best buddy was Idi Amine and he was

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Speaker 1: friends with right, yeah, you know what I mean. He

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Speaker 1: must a guy to hang out. Yeah, he gave soldiers

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Speaker 1: to Idi Amine, which didn't end well for him because

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Speaker 1: his army was not good at being an army at

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Speaker 1: any point in this which is yeah, they were terrible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's like a shitty gift. It's a shitty gift.

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Speaker 1: It was better than Idi Amine's army. Okay, did he

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Speaker 1: give armies often and people would have to pretend to

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Speaker 1: like it and then like give the army to someone else,

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Speaker 1: like re gift the army. He kind of gave armies

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Speaker 1: to a couple of people and then they got badly

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Speaker 1: beaten and then he didn't have much of an army

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Speaker 1: at least, and they were in an national sanctions against him,

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Speaker 1: so he couldn't give away his army anymore because he

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Speaker 1: was running low on tanks. Not great. Uh So. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you go searching through the wild woolies of the

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Speaker 1: Internet for documentaries about Momar Kadafi, you will find a

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Speaker 1: number of very positive takes, many of which are homemade

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Speaker 1: by guys in their rooms. There is a reason behind this, though,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of his legacy in Africa was positive.

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Speaker 1: He established a five billion dollar fund that invested in

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Speaker 1: legitimate businesses across the continent. The Guardian claims he did

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Speaker 1: more than any other leader to establish the African Union.

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Speaker 1: So it's not all negative. Again with Kadafi, it's always

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Speaker 1: a mix of Again, it's him, he's the problem. He

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Speaker 1: is the problem. Like if he like wrote everything he

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Speaker 1: wanted to have done down and then they just like

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Speaker 1: put him somewhere where he couldn't hurt anybody. Yeah, in

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Speaker 1: the desert. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's why he went to

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Speaker 1: the desert that one time. There was a lot of times.

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Speaker 1: He has never stayed there, which is the problem. Right,

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Speaker 1: he should have stayed there if he just said, hey,

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Speaker 1: there should be an African Union, and then once everyone

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Speaker 1: was like yeah, that is a good idea, he fucked

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Speaker 1: off to the desert. He never would have been murdered

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Speaker 1: in the street and I'm out and I'm out, like

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Speaker 1: George Sans in the in the Seinfeld episode one joke. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would have been a better way to Kaddafi. Um.

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Speaker 1: But instead he did all of this ship um. So

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Speaker 1: he was He was popular though in a lot of

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Speaker 1: parts of Africa outside of Libya, even when he wasn't

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Speaker 1: popular inside of his own country, but to the West.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, Momar Kaddafi was the goddamn boogeyman.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty six, a bomb went off in a

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Speaker 1: Berlin discotheque. Several people died. Ronald Reagan called Kaddafi a

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Speaker 1: mad dog, and he was portrayed as sinister and a

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Speaker 1: deadly figure pulling strings around the world, which is like

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Speaker 1: half true. He may have been involved in the discotheque bombing.

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Speaker 1: Um probably was to some extent. You know, maybe he

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Speaker 1: didn't know about it. And again, the way Harvey Weinstein

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Speaker 1: sort of has his hand in every Indy film or production. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably somewhere there was some money in there. He probably

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Speaker 1: winsteined a bunch of different tape reactions. Yeah. Sanctions weren't

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Speaker 1: placed on Libya during the Reagan administration, which cut the

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Speaker 1: nation's revenue by a third overnight. Uh. This was the

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Speaker 1: start of the dark times for Momarkadafi. On April fifteenth,

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Speaker 1: nine eighteen, US bombers took off from the UK and

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Speaker 1: dropped sixty tons of bombs on a Libyan airfield, naval academy,

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Speaker 1: and Momar Kadafi's Bob Alzizia compound. Several civilians were killed

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Speaker 1: in the bombing. Kadafi claimed his four year old daughter, Hannah,

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Speaker 1: was also killed. This is the first time the world

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Speaker 1: heard about his daughter, and it's hard to say what's true.

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Speaker 1: Reporters from multiple major outlets have attempted to track down

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Speaker 1: the truth of Hannah. We don't know. Basically, the possibilities

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Speaker 1: are she's either dead, a practicing doctor not real, or

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Speaker 1: two different people. That's a hell of a thing to

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Speaker 1: be of one of those things. Yeah, Like after his

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Speaker 1: regime fell, they found her room and her passport that

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Speaker 1: never her and there was like some in the room

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Speaker 1: that she may have been working as a doctor in Libya,

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Speaker 1: but nobody knows what happened. So they found her passport

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Speaker 1: that must assisted well. But he gets to issue passports. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So is this again going back to like Seinfeld. Is

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Speaker 1: this like a Seinfeld desk thing where he does a

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Speaker 1: lie and then has to like continually back it up.

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Speaker 1: May the point that he's making passports for this fake

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Speaker 1: dead person. It is obviously totally possible that when NATO

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Speaker 1: bombed his home, his daughter died in the bombing because

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Speaker 1: they bombed his home. It's also totally possible that the

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Speaker 1: guy in charge of the government faked having a daughter

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Speaker 1: or faked his daughter dying and then hit her from

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Speaker 1: the world under a different in the passport. She was

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Speaker 1: like two years older than he claimed she was. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so what he's like, Yeah, it's very hard to tell

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Speaker 1: what happened with Hannah. Um, whatever happened to her. The bombings. Actually,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of a pr coup for Kadafi. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: built a massive statue at the bomb site to commemorate

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Speaker 1: the attack, and he would for years afterwards hold press

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Speaker 1: conferences and meet with dignitaries in front of it. The

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Speaker 1: statue is called Golden Fist Clinching an American airplane. Is

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Speaker 1: the statue of a golden fist crushing in American statue.

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Speaker 1: It's an amazing statue. Ye, oh my god. It could

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Speaker 1: also be like a tribute to King Kong. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that statue could stand in for. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's so good, it's amazing. Now. Kadafi's actual military response

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Speaker 1: to the US bombing was to fire two missiles at

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Speaker 1: an American Coast Guard base on an Italian island and

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Speaker 1: miss Both missiles landed in the ocean. Yeah, which maybe

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Speaker 1: he just wanted to funk with the ocean. Yeah. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he hates the ocean. If you remember from part one,

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Speaker 1: Momar Kadafi's terrified of the ocean, right so, rightfully so

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Speaker 1: uh so. The wonderful book Libya, The Rise and Fall

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Speaker 1: of Kaddafi argues that Reagan's obsession with Kaddafi actually helped

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Speaker 1: the colonel. He'd been widely unliked before this point. After

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Speaker 1: the bombing, he could credibly claim to be a leader

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Speaker 1: of Arab and African resistance to the Western imperialist powers.

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Speaker 1: That said, the sanctions increasingly fucked up life from Momar

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Speaker 1: Kaddafi and mainly for the people of Libya. Their anger

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Speaker 1: made Kaddafi worry that at some point they might take

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Speaker 1: their rage out on him, so he announced a bold

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Speaker 1: reform package. First off, he abolished the people's Counsels and

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Speaker 1: the revolutionary committees, and he claimed that all of Libya's

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Speaker 1: problems had been the fault of those assholes, because you know,

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Speaker 1: he's not in charge, so he threw them all under

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Speaker 1: the bus. From the bus. Good step one. To drive

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Speaker 1: this point home. On March third, nine, nineteen days before

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Speaker 1: I was born, Momar Kaddafi gathered a bunch of supporters

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Speaker 1: and foreign diplomats at the Furnash prison in Tripoli. He

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Speaker 1: got into an enormous bulldozer and then drove it into

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Speaker 1: the jail's massive gate to break it down. Unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: bulldozer could not break the gate of the jail, so

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Speaker 1: Kadafi backed up and rammed the prison wall until it

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Speaker 1: collapsed outwards onto the crowd of diplomats and supporters. Then

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Speaker 1: a sewage pipe ruptured and ships spilled into the street.

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Speaker 1: That's like something that would be on the Simpsons. That's

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Speaker 1: like something Homer Simpson would do. Oh my god, that's great. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: so Yakete Sacks has still been playing. It never stopped.

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Speaker 1: That was the Libyan national anthem for forty years. Four

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Speaker 1: prisoners eventually rushed out through the hole in the wall.

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Speaker 1: Uh Momar Kadafi announced people's don't triumph through building prisons

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Speaker 1: and raising their walls even higher, to the stunned silence

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Speaker 1: of his country, half of whom were buried in rubble.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, Kadafi opened up his country to a small

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Speaker 1: amount of privatization. People were allowed to run personal businesses.

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Speaker 1: Hotels started to open up in Tripoli. Things actually seemed

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Speaker 1: like they were moving forward in a positive direction. But

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Speaker 1: then December, one night, PanAm flight one oh three went

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Speaker 1: down over Lockerby, Scotland after a terrorist bomb detonated on board.

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Speaker 1: Two hundred and seventy people died, including eleven on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Uh In nineteen ninety, the Lockerby bombing was credibly linked

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Speaker 1: to Momar Kadafi's Libya. A computer chip and the bomb

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Speaker 1: debtonator matched debtonators found previously on Libyans who've been arrested

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Speaker 1: in Senegal. Um Kadafi denied any wrongdoing and anything to

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Speaker 1: do with the bombing. He refused to hand over the

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Speaker 1: accused bombers. He said the evidence against Libya is less

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Speaker 1: than a laughable piece of a fingernail, which is weird. No,

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Speaker 1: it's weird. It's weird to compare that to a fingernail.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like the same size the chip, the chip. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, maybe that's what he was going after.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's a yeah, it's a weird.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird thing to say. It's one of those

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Speaker 1: things I have to assume. It's like something you say

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Speaker 1: when you're guilty, when you don't know how to defend yourself. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Uh So. The nineteen nineties were a bad decade from

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Speaker 1: MOMR Kadafi's regime. Libya spent most of that time under

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Speaker 1: a strangling set of international sanctions. Kadafi also had to

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Speaker 1: fight off in his Lamist uprising that threatened topple his regime.

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Speaker 1: Um he spent years doing that. There was like a

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Speaker 1: brutal little almost civil war between the Islamists and the

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Speaker 1: Kaddafi regime. Uh The economy collapsed due in part to

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Speaker 1: sanctions and in part to the war, and also in

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Speaker 1: part to expensive projects like the Great Man Made River scheme.

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Speaker 1: So Kadafi believed that all great peoples need a great

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Speaker 1: riverbya does not have many great rivers or any great

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Speaker 1: rivers naturally, but it does have the largest underground reserves

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Speaker 1: a fossil fresh water. So Kadafi's plan was to pipe

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Speaker 1: water from underneath the deserts to the coastal cities. This

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Speaker 1: was an enormous engineering task, the largest irrigation plan ever

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Speaker 1: carried out six hundred miles of pipe. It's an enormous

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Speaker 1: fucking thing. It took up fifteen percent of the government's

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Speaker 1: budget during the years that it was under construction, and

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Speaker 1: it was under construction for a very long time. This

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Speaker 1: is again something that actually turned out to be a

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Speaker 1: good idea because now that it is complete, it currently

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Speaker 1: provides something like of Libbya's fresh water and supports a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of their agriculture. I mean, a river is

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Speaker 1: water that hasn't been corrupted by the ocean becoming the ocean.

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Speaker 1: He just keeps trying to ocean. Yeah exactly. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it took a long time to finish this man

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Speaker 1: Rade River, and during the nineties it was just incredibly

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Speaker 1: expensive when they didn't have a lot of money to

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Speaker 1: spare this big dig. What they had the Big Dig

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Speaker 1: in Boston where they had construction for like a decade,

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Speaker 1: and it was awful and everybody hated it. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like He's big dig. So oh, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like Kadafi's Boston. M Yeah, I'm not an

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Speaker 1: East Coast guy, right. Have you been to the East Coast? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been to the East Coast terrible where like the

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Speaker 1: East parts, I feel like you need to give it

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Speaker 1: another shot. No, I actually I liked Boston the one

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Speaker 1: time I was there. Its like a lovely city. Um.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there during the Big Dig unless I was,

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Speaker 1: but I wasn't driving, So yeah, no, I I enjoy

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Speaker 1: the East Coast unless it's the summer, in which case

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Speaker 1: I don't. Y'all, summers are the worst. Yeah, the winters

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Speaker 1: are also kind of the worst. I'm fine with winter,

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Speaker 1: but I come from Texas, so if it's hot outside,

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Speaker 1: I expect there to be air conditioning. And no one

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Speaker 1: on that coast is figured out a c at least

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Speaker 1: that's the way it seems when you travel right. There's

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Speaker 1: also mosquitoes, and that's kind of a deal breaker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you gotta deal with those in the south too, so

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't notice that so much. But I'm

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Speaker 1: not a summer guy anyway. Let's talk about mar Market office.

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Speaker 1: Um so. Yeah. Libya's government, um during this sort of

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Speaker 1: giant slump in the nineteen nineties, tried a number of

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Speaker 1: different tactics to fix the economy. In nine, he established

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Speaker 1: a Tourism Secretariat and dedicated the nation's gorgeous coastline to tourism.

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Speaker 1: This again, is not a crazy idea. Libya is a

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Speaker 1: beautiful country, especially around the coast. Um. The problem is that,

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Speaker 1: of course Libya was still subject to massive international sanctions

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Speaker 1: and alcohol was illegal, but of which kind of put

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Speaker 1: a damper on a vacation destination. You need the booze, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you can't offer anything else, you need the booze there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's okay if there's not a lot of variety in

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Speaker 1: the food, but I need to be able to drink

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Speaker 1: on the beach. Yeah. Like if I were going, if

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Speaker 1: I went into the convenience store and it was just

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Speaker 1: Italian suits and milk powder, I'd be like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: there's vodka, so I can make this work. I can

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Speaker 1: have a vacation. Yeah, I have a good time. But

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Speaker 1: if there's no alcohol, then it's like what am I

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Speaker 1: gonna do? Yeah? What are we even? Why am I

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Speaker 1: even here? Um. At one point, a journalist asked the

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Speaker 1: head of Libya's national tourism agency, who would want to

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Speaker 1: go there for vacation. The head of the tourism agency answered,

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Speaker 1: perhaps reformed alcoholics come dry out in Libya. I've been

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Speaker 1: drinking to hit rock bottom. Come to Libya. He also said,

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Speaker 1: and then there are those who like adventure, so which

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get ninety of people who like adventure also drink. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think people when they say I like adventure,

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Speaker 1: they mean like zip lining and then drinking Margarite's afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Um so like Saddam Hussein. By the mid nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: Kadafi seemed to have soured on being a dictator. He

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Speaker 1: turned to the warm embrace of writing, and in nineteen

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Speaker 1: published a collection of short stories titled Escape to Hell.

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Speaker 1: The eponymous story appears to be written from the perspective

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Speaker 1: of a dictator fleeing his own unhappy people. It's like

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Speaker 1: he knew. It's like he knew. I'm gonna start reading

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Speaker 1: from Momarkat Daffy's short stories, which I should have plugged

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Speaker 1: at the end of the last episode, because this is

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Speaker 1: really the best thing we got here. This sounds wonderful.

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Speaker 1: So when we get back, we're going to just dig

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Speaker 1: right into mo Mars, but first by things. Products. Yeah, everything,

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Speaker 1: And we're back and we're about to get into the

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Speaker 1: part of the story I'm most excited about, where we

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Speaker 1: talk about Momar Kadafi's career as a short story. Right,

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Speaker 1: it sounds delightful. So the collection was of course called

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Speaker 1: Escape to Hell, which was the title of a story

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Speaker 1: in it about a dictator fleeing his own people. I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to read one selection from Escape to Hell. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I was about to say that sounds like a John

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Speaker 1: Carpenter movie. It does, it does, and the hell in

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Speaker 1: this is the Desert. He's talking about how he hates

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Speaker 1: being in charge so much that he wants to escape

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Speaker 1: to hell the desert because it's nicer than being around

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Speaker 1: his people people loves the desert. I mean, he's a

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Speaker 1: better one like That's these people are desert people, so

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Speaker 1: that it makes sense. Hates the ocean, loves the desert.

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Speaker 1: Who can stand against the crushing current and the blind

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Speaker 1: engulfing power. How I love the liberated masses on the

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Speaker 1: march they are unfettered, with no master, singing and marry

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Speaker 1: after their terrible ordeals. On the other hand, how I

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Speaker 1: fear and apprehend them. I love the masses as much

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Speaker 1: as I love my father. Similarly, I fear them no

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Speaker 1: less than I fear him. In a Bedouin society where

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Speaker 1: no government system exists. Who can deter a father from

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Speaker 1: persecuting any of his children. Yes, how much they love

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Speaker 1: him and how much they fear him at the same time.

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Speaker 1: That is how I love and fear the masses exactly

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Speaker 1: as I love and fear my father. He knew what

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Speaker 1: was coming. And there's a great there's a line in

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Speaker 1: there where he talks about like how all he knew

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Speaker 1: how to do was tear down the old government, and

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Speaker 1: he didn't know how to do stuff like be a plumber,

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Speaker 1: so like why should people expect things to work? But

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Speaker 1: he's like, dude, you're the one who stayed in power.

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Speaker 1: So yeah. At this point he's like tony soprano, like

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Speaker 1: that's all he can do, and he sort of knows

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Speaker 1: eventually it's you know, they're going to come back to

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Speaker 1: bite him on the road. Yeah, exactly, and he forgot

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Speaker 1: how to use the brakes. Um. He calls these all

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Speaker 1: short stories, but they are really just collections of rants

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Speaker 1: with no cohesive plot structure or characters. Safe for almost

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Speaker 1: one story, Suicide of the Astronaut, which I am convinced

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Speaker 1: might be the greatest thing ever written in any language.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a great band. It is a great

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Speaker 1: name for a band, and it's a great short story.

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Speaker 1: And Dave and listeners, I don't have any option but

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Speaker 1: to read the story and its entirety, every single word

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Speaker 1: of it. I have no choice in the matter. I

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Speaker 1: could no more cut out my own tongue than I

387
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Speaker 1: could keep Colonel Kadafi's brilliance hidden from the world. Are

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Speaker 1: you ready, David Bell, for suicide of the astraid? I

389
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Speaker 1: don't know if I'll ever be ready. Yeah, do it?

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Speaker 1: H Having traveled far and wide and giddy outer space,

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Speaker 1: and since budgets can no more support the great expense

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Speaker 1: of outer space programs, and now that man has landed

393
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Speaker 1: on the Moon but found nothing much except that the

394
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: two astronauts have exposed the wild guesses and vain hypotheses

395
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Speaker 1: of scientists that there were sees and oceans on the Moon,

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Speaker 1: which led to the competition to own them and designate

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Speaker 1: names for them by the insolent great powers, who nearly

398
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Speaker 1: went to war on Earth for the sake of dividing

399
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Speaker 1: the Moon that real resources, especially the marine ones. And

400
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Speaker 1: having roamed around the planetary system taking pictures of all

401
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Speaker 1: the planets, and after giving up hope of finding intelligent

402
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: life or any suitable place for living there, man returned

403
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 1: to the Earth frustrated and suffering from giddiness, vomiting, and

404
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 1: fear of perdition. That's the first sentence. Holy shit, Okay,

405
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Speaker 1: hold on, I need to unpack that. So this is

406
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Speaker 1: the story takes place after this. This is like, so,

407
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Speaker 1: you know how we went to the Moon and we

408
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: found all this the oan we almost went to war

409
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Speaker 1: over the Moon. Yeah, well you can forget about all that.

410
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Speaker 1: We're done with space. We're done with that, okay, next sentence,

411
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Speaker 1: he has now realized the fact that the Earth is

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Speaker 1: unique and incomparable as a source of life, which in

413
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: simple words means food and water, and that which is

414
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 1: indispensable to life is secured by the atmosphere of the

415
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Speaker 1: Earth at etera. Thus man had to return to the

416
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Speaker 1: Earth from his outer space escapade. Right all right, paragraph too.

417
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Speaker 1: Back on the Earth, the astronaut took off his space

418
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Speaker 1: suit and put on his familiar one, which is suitable

419
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Speaker 1: for walking and living on the Earth. Now that his

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00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: mission with the Space Corporation had come to an end,

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Speaker 1: he began to look for an earthly job. He applied

422
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: for one at a carpentry workshop, but he failed the

423
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: test because he lacked the essential no how of what

424
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: he thought was a simple trade. Also, he had to

425
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: go at the lathe workshop at a blacksmith sporge building

426
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: and plumbing. He even tried painting and whitewashing. He had

427
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: not studied fine art or music or weaving, as they

428
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with his scientific specialization the Space Corporation.

429
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: This is a Neil Breen film. People, some people, most

430
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: people won't know what that means. People would do. This

431
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: is a this is a bad B movie plot. Yeah,

432
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: it is. It's amazing that he thinks an astronaut would

433
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: have trouble getting a job anywhere, because, like, I've had

434
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: to hire people on a number of occasions in my life,

435
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: and I know that if anyone had walked in and

436
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: said I was an astronaut and was in space, that

437
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: would be the end of the internet. Yeah. If the

438
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: word astronaut is on a resume, yeah you got it.

439
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: Even if they can't do anything, I just have them

440
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,239
Speaker 1: there all day to be like, so, what's space like? Well,

441
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: and I just I assume anyone who can be an

442
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: astronaut can pick up any other skill, right, Yeah. We

443
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: decided when we were in elementary school collectively that the

444
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 1: best job as astronaut, which means any job less good

445
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: than an astronaut, an astronaut can do like oh yeah,

446
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, even if you're a surgeon, they'll pick

447
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 1: it up. Being an astronaut is basically being really smart

448
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: but in space. Yeah, so like, yeah, any anything they

449
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: can do, like if they can do it in space, yeah,

450
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: they can handle it here. Yeah, I assume an astronaut

451
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: can do anything, but Mombarcadafi assumes he can't get a

452
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: job at a woodworking shop, which, well, this is the

453
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: future where we were already on the moon and stuff,

454
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: and this is like, this is like the Ridley Scott astronauts.

455
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: These are like the space truckers. That's why I'm pretty

456
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 1: sure he's imagining. He just watched Aliens and the right there.

457
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 1: It's extremely possible this might be in that cinematic universe.

458
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: Is this Are you saying that that that mo market

459
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: off He's suicide of the astronaut is is in the

460
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: Aliens cannon? It might be. So far, I've seen no

461
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: reason not to say that. All right, let's see where

462
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: it goes. Let's start with paragraph three. Um, So he

463
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: had to leave the city a frustrated failure and set

464
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: off for the countryside, where he looked for work as

465
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: a farm hand in order to support himself and his family.

466
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: One of the farmers asked if he was attracted to

467
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: the Earth by which he simply wanted to know if

468
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: the astronaut liked farming. But the astronaut answered, the attraction

469
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: of the Earth decreases as we go up, and our

470
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: weight also decreases gradually until we get to the point

471
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: of weightlessness. Then and there we get free of the

472
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: Earth's attraction or gravity as we call it. But soon

473
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: afterwards we get attracted by another planet, and our weight

474
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: begins to increase gradually. And so on. I hope I

475
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: have answered your question. Hold on, So the astronaut was

476
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: asked how how how do you like the Earth? He

477
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: thought that he the guy was asking him about how

478
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: weighed down by gravity to the Earth. Would you say

479
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: you are right, which would be an insane interview question.

480
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's that's yeah. The farmer showed signs of

481
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: someone who did not comprehend and looked as if he

482
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: wanted more explanation, and the astronaut, hoping to impress the

483
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: simple farmer in order that he would take him on

484
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: as a farm hand, went on parading his space knowledge.

485
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: The volume of the Earth is about twenty times less

486
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: than that of Jupiter's and that twelve years on the

487
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: Earth equal to one year on Jupiter, and that Jupiter

488
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: spot is big enough to hold the Earth in its center.

489
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: You may also be interested to know that saturness seven

490
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: forty four times bigger than the Earth, it is only

491
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: about nine times heavier than the Earth. So we know

492
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: now why this astronaut can't get a job. We figure

493
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: that he's literally talking about as far from farming as

494
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: he can just keeps given space facts. Okay, so I

495
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: think I understand the point of I don't know if

496
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: we want to talk about this. At the end, I

497
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: think I understand what Momar is trying to say. We'll

498
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: let me continue with the astronauts rant. The diameter of

499
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: the Earth is about fifty times bigger than that of

500
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: the Moon's, and its volume is about eighty times bigger

501
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: than that of the Moon's. The pull of the Earth's

502
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: gravity is six times greater than that of the Moon's.

503
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: The Earth is about a hundred and fifty million kilometers

504
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: away from the Sun, whose light takes eight minutes to

505
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: reach the Earth at the speed of three hundred thousand

506
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: kilometers per second. The volume of the Earth is about

507
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: one million, three hundred thousand, eight hundred times smaller than

508
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: that of the Sun's and the mass of the Earth

509
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: is also three eight times smaller than the mass of

510
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: the Sun, whose density is thirty times bigger than that

511
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: of the Earth's. The Earth come third, and distance from

512
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: the Sun. Mercury is the nearest planet to the Sun.

513
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: Venus comes next, and then the Earth et cetera. Venus

514
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: is about forty two million kilometers away from the Earth,

515
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: which is about four to tho kilometers away from the Moon. Yeah,

516
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: if you had a car that ran this is still

517
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 1: the fucking astronaut explainings to the farmer. If you had

518
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: a car that ran at a hundred kilometers per hour,

519
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: it would take you one hundred and forty six days

520
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: to get to the moon. But if you had no

521
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: car and decided to walk to the moon, it would

522
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: take you eight years and a hundred days to get there.

523
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,239
Speaker 1: I think I have answered the question fully now, as

524
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: you see, I am well informed in matters concerning the Earth.

525
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: As soon as he had heard this last repetition of

526
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: the word earth, the farmer became aware of himself and

527
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: closed his mouth, which had been wide open during the

528
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: whole story of the astronaut's journey from one planet to another.

529
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: From the time he left Earth until he returned home.

530
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: The farmer did not comprehend much, but he too felt

531
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: dizzy because he fell under the spell and felt that

532
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: he was also coming home from a space journey with

533
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: no tangible gains concerning his farm. What matter to him

534
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: was the stance between one tree and the other, and

535
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: not the distance between the Earth and Jupiter. He was

536
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: also interested in the volume of the yield of his farm,

537
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: and not in the volume of mercury. He felt very

538
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: sorry for the begging, pathetic astronaut and had the desire

539
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: to give him some alms, but he was unable to

540
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: take him on as a farm hand, and so, having

541
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: lost all hope of finding any breadwinning job on Earth,

542
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: the astronaut decided to commit suicide. That's the story. That's

543
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: the end. That's the end. No, we don't even learn

544
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: like how we carry that out. So he's writing this

545
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: like a fable basically. Yeah, I think that was the goal. Yeah,

546
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god. He should have written movies. He should

547
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: have written movies. He probably could have gotten something made. No,

548
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: I would watch a ninety minute adaptation of suicideh the Astronaut.

549
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: If there are producers listening to this show. I will

550
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: make sure that script gets written. Probably we can we

551
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: can do this. Um, so he's trying to say. I

552
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: mean it's pretty it's pretty clear what he's trying to say, right,

553
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: I think so. I I think the point this feels

554
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: it felt obvious, but maybe it's not. It's that he's

555
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: basically like I think about people like Elon Musk, who

556
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: is like, we're going to space and that we're sitting here, like, hey,

557
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: we need like clean water and affordable they drink. Yeah.

558
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: I think that's what he's saying, is the end of that,

559
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: like we go to space and we we want to

560
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: acquire this sort of knowledge, but it's useless to the

561
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: practicalities of actually living and like farming, and like the

562
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: idea that an astronauts job is essentially useless once we

563
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: learned that there's nothing out there for us, that the

564
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: Earth is the thing, is the thing we should be

565
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: taken care of and working on, and and the most

566
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: useful skills are it's down to just growing food. I

567
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: think that's what he's trying to say. I in a

568
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: really dumb story, in a really dumb story, and like

569
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get on a rant about space

570
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: programs here. I'm one of those people who thinks that

571
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: we're going to get killed by a rock if we

572
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: don't get better at space. I think it's good to

573
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: explore space, absolutely. I just think that um our expenditures

574
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: on the space program are not why America does not

575
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: have good social programs. Like if someone with the charism

576
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: of Kennedy could start a program that's just like everybody

577
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: gets water. Yeah, like we want to be star Trek.

578
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: But like Star Trek started with her, they were like,

579
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: let's figure this ship out, let's make sure no one's starving. Yeah,

580
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: and then maybe we can start going into space and

581
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: figuring that out. Which, yeah, that's a reasonable message. Kadafi's

582
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: is insane. Yeah, I mean sorry that technically Star Trek

583
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: started because it was a Third World War, and then

584
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: Cochrane invented the warp drive and Vulcan sad, we'll be

585
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: doing a whole episode on zeph from cock okay for

586
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: uh yeah, so that's the suicide of the astronaut. Good god, Yeah,

587
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: life anging right, wonderful. So by the late nineteen nineties,

588
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: it was clear to mo markt Dafi that Libby's only

589
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: option was to make nice with the West and convinced

590
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: them to lift sanctions. This started in nineteen nine when

591
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: Kaddafi finally handed the Lockerbie bombing that was the plane

592
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: that got blown up until two seventy people. Uh he

593
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: handed the suspects in that bombing over to be tried

594
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: under Scottish law in a neutral international court. UM. This

595
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: was a start, but it took three years for things

596
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: to really ramp up, and it wasn't until the nine

597
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: eleven terror attacks that Colonel Kadafi got his big break.

598
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: So September eleventh, two thousand and one, was the best

599
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: day ever for three groups. Sam Been Laden and al Qaeda,

600
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: all of the Whales in the world, and mo Mark Dafi.

601
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: Despite being an observant Muslim himself, Kadafi had been fighting

602
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: Islamist terrorists and trying to warn the world about them

603
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: for years. Uh So when nine eleven happened, he publicly

604
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: condemned it, and he told the world like, this is

605
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: what I've been warning you about for a long time.

606
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm against those guys too. He arranged a blood drive

607
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: to help victims of nine eleven. He declared the US

608
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: invasion of Afghanistan and active self defense UM and at

609
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: this point, the Bush administration was eager for a foreign

610
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: policy win, so you know, they decided to start talking

611
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: with Kadafi about opening Libya back up to the world

612
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: and dropping the sanctions. This wound up leading to in

613
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: two thousand three, Libya renouncing its plans to build nuclear weapons. UM.

614
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: Western corporations, particularly oil and gas companies, were hugely excited

615
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: for the possibilities that Libya represented because there's a shipload

616
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: of oil inside Libya. UM and in general, it seemed

617
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: to be a major coup for the Bush administration. Um

618
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: it later came back to bite them in the ass. Uh.

619
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: It seemed like it seemed like it vindicated their policy,

620
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: Like because we fucked with Saddam Hussein and you know,

621
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: murdered him. Uh, then that's why Kadafi gave up his nukes.

622
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: So clearly, fucking with one dictator might make the others better.

623
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: But of course, then America and the other Western countries

624
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: intervened to get Kadafi killed in two thousand eleven, which

625
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: provided a very good reason for North Korea and Iran

626
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: to not give up their nuclear weapons programs. So that said,

627
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to condemn anybody who tries to stop

628
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: a country from getting nukes because we got enough of those, uh,

629
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: and that that did work in the short term. Did

630
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: you say all the whales whales love nine eleven. Yeah,

631
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: it's a well documented it's another ocean thing. This is

632
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: another reason to stay away from the ocean. Well, the

633
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: actual reason that you can read up on this. I'm

634
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: not I'm not just making a joke. Uh. Scientists who

635
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: listen to whales you can tell the stress levels and

636
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: the whales based on the kind of songs that they sing.

637
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: And they noticed that in the weeks after nine eleven

638
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: their stress levels plummeted to the fact where they weren't

639
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: stressed at at all. They were super happy. They're all like,

640
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: we did it funk nine eleven. Yeah No. And it

641
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: turned out that what it is is that the the

642
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: like sonar and whatever equipment on planes that that that

643
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: it uses to communicate with air traffic, like that stuff,

644
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: whales can hear it. And it's like whales always have

645
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: a headache because there's always planes everywhere. We are the

646
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: noisy upstairs, And for like a week or so after

647
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: nine eleven, there was no more noise. So nine eleven

648
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: was the best thing ever for whales. Yeah, and Kadafi. Yeah,

649
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: this is really an anti ocean podcast, which I had

650
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: not intended when I started writing it. Yeah. Well, I'm

651
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: sure over time it will gradually shift to being mostly that. Yeah. Yeah,

652
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: the ocean is a bastard. Yeah. Um, So we're going

653
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: to talk about the rest of momarkt Daffi's Western rehabilitation

654
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: of his image tour and his trip to speak to

655
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: the United Nations in New York City. Kadafi in New

656
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: York City, it's like a fucking crocodile dundee, but with

657
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: the market office straight. Yes. Uh so we're gonna get

658
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: to that. But first products, and we're back from products.

659
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: Let's continue talking about mom market Daffi. So we left

660
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: off he just sort of agreed to give up his

661
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons. Eleven had brought him closer to the United States,

662
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: and this whole Western rehab tour culminated in two thousand

663
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: and nine with a trip to New York City to

664
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: speak in front of the United Nations. Now, this was

665
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: not as simple as it might sound. True to his

666
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: Bedoin roots, Kadafi brought an enormous tent with him wherever

667
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: he traveled. His initial plan was to arrent it in

668
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: New Jersey on a piece of land owned by the

669
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: Libyan embassy, but the State Department said, no, you can't

670
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: put up a giant tent. There's a ton of people

671
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: with guns in America and they might just shoot you.

672
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: Like it was one of those like there's way too many.

673
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: I can see that request coming in. Then being like

674
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: he wants to what a tent? Oh god, no, does

675
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 1: he not know everyone has a rifle and there's angry

676
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: people about. Yeah. So he tried next to find a

677
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: large enough plot of open land in New York City

678
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: for the tent, but everyone he asked turned him down

679
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: because he's a violent dictator. Finally, Momar Kadafi was able

680
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: to find one friend in America who would rent him

681
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: some land. Donald J. Trump, Mr. Trump rented him a

682
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: large plot of land in Westchester County. Here is how

683
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: a two thousand and nine Guardian article described the erection

684
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: of the tent. Workers were seen yesterday erecting a tent

685
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: and satellites in the glamorous neighborhood of Bedford on an

686
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: estate owned by Trump. Local officials tried to stop them,

687
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: saying it was illegal to build a temporary residence without

688
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: a permit. An ABC News helicopter filmed a large tent

689
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: on the hundred and thirteen acre Seven Springs estate with

690
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: rugs and patterned wall hangings. Green and yellow fabric lined

691
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: the walls in a pattern dotted with images of small

692
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: brown camels, according to a local newspaper website image. Last night,

693
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: a State Department official told AP the tent might be

694
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: used for entertaining by Kadafi, but he would not be

695
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 1: sleeping there. And here is a picture of Momar Kadafi's tent. Okay, why,

696
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, why didn't this come up during the election?

697
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: Oh it did, David. It seems like if someone's running

698
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 1: for president and someone's running against him, and that person

699
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: running against him says he let Momar Kadafi camp in

700
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: his backyard. I feel like that's enough. Right, How did

701
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: we get here? That is too big a question for

702
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: this podcast. It's just, oh my god. Yeah, what a tent? Right, Yeah,

703
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: it's a pretty good it's a pretty good tent. Barbecue

704
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: website like, there's nothing in it though, I don't think

705
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: they'd finished setting it up yet. Okay, it looks like

706
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: it would be a good place for like a wedding

707
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, I'm legitimately jealous of the tent. Nobody's

708
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: going to claim that moll Mar Kadafi did not have

709
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: good taste intense. So the town was furious about this

710
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: and banned Kadafi from putting up his tent. The whole

711
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 1: incident caused an outcry that forced the Trump organization to respond.

712
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: They said that the land was quote least on a

713
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: short term basis to Middle Eastern partners who may or

714
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: may not have a relationship to Mr Kaddafi. We are

715
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: looking into the matter. Mr Kadafi never got to stay

716
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: in the tent. In two thousand sixteen, then candidate Trump

717
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: bragged about the whole affair. Don't forget I'm the only

718
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: one I made a lot of money with Kaddafi if

719
00:38:54,040 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: you remember which a lot of people made money. How

720
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: did how did I think? He was a big fan

721
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: of Death of the Astronaut, So he's probably just kind

722
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: of psyched to have his favorite author in town. Yeah,

723
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: but the colonel did get to give his speech at

724
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: the United Nations, and my god, what a speech it was.

725
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: He was scheduled to speak for fifteen minutes, He spoke

726
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: for more than ninety and now we're gonna hear the

727
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: whole speech right now, but we're gonna get into the

728
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: cliffs notes. Uh. He had himself announced as quote, Leader

729
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: of the Revolution of the Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiria,

730
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: President of the African Union and King of African Kings. Yeah,

731
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: that's a hell of a title. It wasn't until seventeen

732
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: minutes into the fifteen minute speech that he hit on

733
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: his main point, urging that Africa be given a seat

734
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: on the Security Council, which is not an unreasonable demand.

735
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: He also complained that permanent seats on the Security Council

736
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: were unfair and undemocratic, which is also reasonable. Then he

737
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: demanded the un be relocated to Libya, which is a

738
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: little bit less reasonable. Again, he's the problem. He's always

739
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: the problem. After that, Kadafi went sort of off the

740
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: rails with a list of rapid fire demands that were

741
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: half reasonable, half bug fuck nuts. He demanded thorough investigations

742
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: into the deaths of Martin Luther King Jr. And JFK.

743
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: So that had just been bugging him for a while's

744
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: been bugging him forever. He just wanted to know. He

745
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,919
Speaker 1: proposed Israel and Palestine be merged into a single state

746
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: called ezra Stein. Okay, so what's happening here? Um, what's happening?

747
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: You ever see the in the scene in the movie

748
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: Army Gatting when they have the demands. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

749
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: it's that it's the first time he's gotten like this

750
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: much of an audience. So he's like fifteen minutes now,

751
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for ninety and I'm gonna say yeah.

752
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: He's like, it's like being Yeah, it's like a phil

753
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: student in a like stuck in an elevator with Spielberg,

754
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: Like he's just gonna throw every pitch he's got out.

755
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: I love it. It starts with like, yeah, Israel and

756
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,479
Speaker 1: Palestine should be one country, which a lot of people

757
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: would be like, oh yeah, wouldn't that be nice if

758
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: that word is ra Stein. That's not what anyone would

759
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: call it. Oh my god. He supported the Taliban's call

760
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: to establish an Islamic state. He demanded war crimes trials

761
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: for the invasion of Iraq. He demanded seven points seven

762
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: trillion dollars in reparations for Africa, which honestly seems kind

763
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: of low ball in it um, and he insinuated that

764
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: swine flew was a biological weapon. Insinuate just threw that in.

765
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: He just dropped that in there. It was a whirlwind,

766
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: and I'm going to say right now, probably the greatest

767
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: speech the UN has ever seen. The whole event earned

768
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: Colonel Kadafi a spread and vanity fair titled Colonel Kaddafi

769
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: a Life in Fashion. I'm just going to read you

770
00:41:54,719 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: their fucking introductory paragraph. Since completing his transition from international

771
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: parietist statesman, Colonel Momarca Daffi, the longest serving leader in

772
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: both Africa and the Arab world, has brought color in

773
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: his own is centric panash to the drab circuit of

774
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: international summits and conferences. Drawing upon the influences of Lacroix, Libaracci,

775
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: Phil Specter for Hair Snoopy and Idioman, Libya's leader, now

776
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: in his sixties, is simply the most unabashed dresser on

777
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: the world stage. We play homage to a sartorial genius

778
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: of our time. I'm going to show you a picture

779
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: of him standing next to President Barack Obama, and Barack

780
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: Obama is not fucking having it. And it's amazing. This

781
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: will be up on the website. Oh my god, you

782
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: owe it to yourself to see it. How would you

783
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: describe his outfit, David, Oh, he's like a star for

784
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: Callier or something. He's like a T and Star trek

785
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: where they had thirty minutes to pick it out. Yeah,

786
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: just like sequence and color. You never want your fashion

787
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: to be described as snoopy and idiom. And Barack Obama's

788
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: body language in this is amazing. He's just like, I

789
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: got to get away from this guy as soon as possible. Yeah.

790
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: It's weird to see a picture of a president rethinking

791
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: their career. Yeah, yeah, but this is the moment, of course.

792
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: Not long after Kadafi's visit to New York City in

793
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven came the Arab Spring. This brought about

794
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: a revolt against Kadafi. The revolts started in the eastern

795
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: city of Benghazi because of the arrest of of an

796
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: activist who was organizing a protest march. Basically, the revolts

797
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: spread quickly throughout the country as Kadafi's forces arrested and

798
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: murdered dissidents. The whole time, Kadafi seemed to baffle at

799
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: what was happening. After all, Olivia was quote the state

800
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: of the masses. It was the people's state, and the

801
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: people couldn't rise up against themselves. He wasn't in charge,

802
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: of course, what were they doing. Unfortunately for Kadafi, NATO

803
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: sided with the rebels and created a no fly zone

804
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: that grounded the Libyan air force. You know, Kadafi was

805
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: kind of winning up until that point. His hard courted

806
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: Western friends abandoned him, so his Western charm tour came

807
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 1: to nothing. The African nations he'd supported also all abandoned him,

808
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: as did his fellow Arab leaders. NATO moved on from

809
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: a no fly zone to launching air attacks against the

810
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: Libyan army and sending an adviser to train the rebels.

811
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: After a very bloody year of fighting, the capital of

812
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: Tripoli was taken. Colonel Kadafi went on the run, but

813
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: his convoy was blown apart by NATO jets on a

814
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: highway outside of his old hometown. Kadafi was found by

815
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: the rebels, wounded and hiding in a sewage pipe. He

816
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: was shot dead on October two thousand eleven. His corpse

817
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: was displayed inside a freezer for several days. Yeah this

818
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: is Cadafi style. Yeah, you you live by hiding your

819
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: dead enemies in a fridge, and you die by having

820
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: your enemies put you in a fridge. Wow. So nothing

821
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: in particular sparked this, um. I know, the Arab spring

822
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: originated in Tunisia with the overthrow of the guy who

823
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: was in charge of Tunisia at the time, who I

824
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: think was a friend of Kadafi's, and that sort of

825
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: started the domino effect that you know, convinced people in

826
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: Libya it was time to start agitating for change. And

827
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: it was possible when it started he could have launched

828
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: real reforms because there's a long history that we got

829
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: into some of them. This of Kadafi is saying there's

830
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,240
Speaker 1: going to be reforms and then nothing happened. It seemed

831
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: like it was time though. Yeah. It was like the

832
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: drunk guy at a party where it's like at a

833
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: certain point, everybody's like, okay, you gotta go. Yeah. If

834
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: he had said, like, hey, you know what, I built

835
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: that giant underwater river and now I'm going to step

836
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: down and try to forget all the people I had

837
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 1: killed and just remember the river, that might have worked. Yeah.

838
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: I mean, he did enough good. He could have hid

839
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: behind it. Yeah, but he did so much bad stuff too. Yeah,

840
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: and that his repression of the rebellion was very brutal.

841
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: A lot of people locked up, a lot of people executed,

842
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: huge numbers of people killed and bombed. Um. And so yeah,

843
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: by the time the rebels got to his comp hound,

844
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: there was no chance they weren't just going to shoot

845
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: that guy straight off. This podcast is not the place

846
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 1: to get into whether or not NATO intervention in Libya

847
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: was a good idea. Uh. It hasn't been a clean thing, obviously, UM.

848
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: But I do want to point out some numbers, one

849
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: of which is that the two thousand eleven civil war

850
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: against that dethroned Kadafi, there was an estimated twenty thod

851
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: people dead from that. Uh. There was another civil war

852
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 1: that started in two thousand fourteen, and the estimate for

853
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: that is about ten thousand deaths. We're looking at thirty

854
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: maybe forty thousand people dead as a result of the conflicts. UH,

855
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: and those deaths probably, I mean, it's it's one of

856
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: those things. If NATO hadn't stepped in, it's possible Kadafi

857
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: would have just stopped the rebellion cold in its tracks. UH,

858
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: and there wouldn't have been that many deaths, but it's

859
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 1: also possible that it would have wound up like Syria,

860
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: where more than half of a million people have died

861
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: because there was no no fly stone established. So it's

862
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: it's hard to say whether or not Libya is better

863
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: or worse off as a result of the intervention, but

864
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 1: they do now have a sort of functioning to mock Grissy,

865
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: and Kadafi is out of power. Um, it has not

866
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: been a smooth transition to democracy because again, when Kadafi

867
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: left power, there were no political parties, there was no

868
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: no one who knew how to run anything in the

869
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: country because the people who were in charge when Kaddafi

870
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: died were people who had been his friends when he

871
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: was a teenager, that had been running things the whole time.

872
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: None of the younger people really knew how to do anything.

873
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: So like it has been a messy road. They're doing

874
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: their best. He didn't set them up for success, which

875
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: part of his point, because it does seem like he

876
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: had to go. But that's yeah, it's a tough thing

877
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: to to figure out. Then, Yeah, it's not as when

878
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: people say it was a mistake to intervene, it's not

879
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: something that you can say that easily. Yeah, I'm not

880
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: gonna say it was the right thing to do either,

881
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 1: but it's a complicated morally. It's that Yeah, because again,

882
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: anybody who has should get involved, we should something should

883
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: be done. Yeah, And he was, you know, a very

884
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: repressive leader. He executed a lot of people, um, which

885
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: we talked about in this sometimes and made a lot

886
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: of people watch and televised a lot of executions, um,

887
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: and they were pretty brutal. He would have a lot

888
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: of people hung on television. So he was he was

889
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: a bad dude and probably would have killed a substantial

890
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: number of people if he'd succeeded in stomping down the revolution,

891
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: because he did when there was that Islamist rebellion against him,

892
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: he killed like people in one massacre. So like, you know,

893
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: if he had had his way with the revolutionaries, there

894
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: could have been more than thirty thousand dead. It's hard,

895
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: it's hard to weigh that, like how many deaths versus

896
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: how many and this alternate didn't get involved, Like yeah,

897
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,720
Speaker 1: it's a bleak question. And he's a hard guide away

898
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: because presumably in a hundred years, we don't know what

899
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: Libby is going to be like, but hopefully they'll still

900
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: have that giant fucking underground river he built, so who knows? Yeah,

901
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: at you of the fist they do. It's in a

902
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: war museum in the city of I think miss Ratta.

903
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: They took it as like a trophy for like cameer

904
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: that time we overthrew the dictator. Here's a statue, right,

905
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: I mean the river is cool, but that fist, that

906
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 1: fist statue, it's like a like a Banksy sculpture. That's wonderful.

907
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: It is great. Um. Well, that is all the time

908
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: we have for Momakadafi today, Dave, thank you for joining

909
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: me in this epic tale of whatever the hell we

910
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: call MoMA. Thank you for having me. This is a blast.

911
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: All right. Well, Colonel Bell, you want to plug the

912
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: things that you have to plug? Yeah, I'll plug things. Um.

913
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: You can find me on the Twitter at a movie

914
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: who look in uh where I tweet stuff. Um. I'm

915
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: also co run a podcasting and a Twitch network called

916
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: game Fully Unemployed g am E f U l O

917
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 1: Y it's a I guess a pun. Yeah. We have

918
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: a Patreon, Patreon, dot com slash game fully Unemployed check

919
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: us out. Um. Yeah, and you can find me on

920
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: Twitter at I write okay, which is just two letters.

921
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: You can find our podcasts, Twitter, and other social media

922
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: stuff at at Bastards pod. You can find us on

923
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 1: the internet at behind the Bastards dot com, which is

924
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: where the pictures and sources for this particular episode will

925
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: be uh. You can also find my book on Amazon,

926
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 1: A Brief History of Vice. David himself appears in it.

927
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to go into too much detail, but

928
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: there's a hospital visits and a milkshake and a milkshake

929
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: so if you want to see how those things are

930
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: connected by my book, A Brief History of Vice. Um.

931
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: Other than that, I got nothing. Next week we'll be

932
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: back with another bastard or potentially several bastards to talk about,

933
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: so please join us next Tuesday and every Tuesday from

934
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: now until the end of time. I love like you.

935
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: Statistically