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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. My name is

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Speaker 2: Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on the show,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about a movie from nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty six, a film called Seconds, directed by John Frankenheimer.

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Speaker 3: And I was trying to think. I was trying to

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Speaker 3: think what to call it. Would you call this a

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Speaker 3: science fiction thriller or a philosophical horror thriller? This really

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Speaker 3: does defy genres in a way.

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Speaker 2: It really does. I mean, you can see there are

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Speaker 2: elements of conspiracy drama, the conspiracy thriller. There, there are

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Speaker 2: elements of sci fi and horror, but it's not really

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Speaker 2: any of those things. It is deeply psychological in many respects.

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Speaker 2: So you might say it's psychological ab or c. But

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Speaker 2: any attempt to pin this down is gonna miss something crucial,

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: So I'm really excited to talk about this movie. I'm

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Speaker 3: honestly astounded how interesting I found it. But I do

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Speaker 3: want to issue a sort of dual warning here at

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Speaker 3: the top. First of all, about the podcast episode. This

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Speaker 3: film has some I would say extremely powerful twists and

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Speaker 3: surprises in it, and in order to talk about the

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Speaker 3: movie in detail, we have to sort of reveal those surprises,

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Speaker 3: including the ending, a little later in our conversation. So

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Speaker 3: if you want to watch it spoiler free and preserve

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Speaker 3: your surprise, you should do that before listening. But secondary

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Speaker 3: warning before you go off to do that. I also

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Speaker 3: have to say I was absolutely floored by the ending

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Speaker 3: of this movie. And I don't usually feel the need

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Speaker 3: to issue like warnings just about a movie having disturbing

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Speaker 3: content or being really unsettling, but you know, we cover

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Speaker 3: a lot of weird horror and stuff, but this one was, like,

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Speaker 3: it shook me so hard that I feel like I

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Speaker 3: should give people a bit of a heads up, especially

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Speaker 3: because I think you're not really expecting it given the context.

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Speaker 3: This movie is from nineteen sixty six. It's shot in

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Speaker 3: black and white. The cinematography is amazing. It looks like

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Speaker 3: a film from a little bit earlier, Like it looks

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Speaker 3: like it could be a really well shot, interesting looking

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Speaker 3: film from the fifties. It stars Rock Hudson's that really

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Speaker 3: also makes it feel like, I don't know, one of

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Speaker 3: these kind of romantic comedy movies from the fifties or something,

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Speaker 3: But I think, especially given all that context, I was

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Speaker 3: just not prepared for the raw horror and desperate bleakness

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Speaker 3: achieved by the end of this film. So if you

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Speaker 3: watch it, prepared to be shaken.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This movie is a sixties film that looks in many

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Speaker 2: respects like a nineteen fifties movie, but ultimately has the

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Speaker 2: feel of a seventies or even eighties film in terms

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Speaker 2: of its impact.

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Speaker 3: I guess I could worry that on the other end,

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Speaker 3: I might be kind of diminishing the dramatic effect by

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Speaker 3: giving this warning, but so be it. I was shocked

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Speaker 3: by the ending, and I was kind of like walking

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Speaker 3: around the house feeling a pit in my stomach afterwards.

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Speaker 3: So so you know, if people were going to go

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Speaker 3: off and watch this, be prepared.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was finishing watching this movie after my son came

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Speaker 2: back from from summer camp, and I was like watching

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Speaker 2: it in the living room but with headphones in, and

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Speaker 2: right as everything was going down, and I was I

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Speaker 2: was like prepared to jump up and like like pause

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Speaker 2: the movies from entering the room just because I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is too this is to to start.

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Speaker 3: Exactly right after I finished, I was going to go

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Speaker 3: play with my baby, and I mean, I guess that's

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Speaker 3: a good thing to do, actually, because I want to say.

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Speaker 3: But on the other hand, I don't want to scare

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Speaker 3: people off too much because I think Seconds is a

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Speaker 3: phenomenal film. I had never seen it before we watched

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Speaker 3: it this week for the show. I understand it received

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Speaker 3: I think a very polarized reaction from critics back when

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Speaker 3: it was first released. I think some thought it was

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Speaker 3: a kind of strange masterpiece. Others thought it was cold

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Speaker 3: and even reprehensible. And I didn't fully understand this division

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Speaker 3: in opinion while I was watching it until the ending,

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Speaker 3: and then it made sense. But I think I would

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Speaker 3: side more with the supporters. In my opinion. Seconds is

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Speaker 3: a piercing, fascinating look at the nature of desire. This

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Speaker 3: is a film about what it means to want things

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Speaker 3: and to want something different for your life, and it

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Speaker 3: explores the really complex, troubling, hidden architecture underneath the visible

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Speaker 3: edifice of all those desires.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I won't say anything more about the ending until

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Speaker 2: we get to it, but I will say it's not

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Speaker 2: a gut punch ending. It's not one of those undeserved

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Speaker 2: gut punch indings anyway, I think it's as you were.

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Speaker 2: As you're there on the floor holding your stomach, you

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Speaker 2: realize no, that gut punch was warranted, Yeah, and is

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Speaker 2: supported by the film. Now, one thing that I think

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Speaker 2: is interesting to point out. This is purely accidental, but

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Speaker 2: I think Seconds is in many ways an inter companion

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Speaker 2: piece to The Incredible Shrinking Man from nineteen fifty seven

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Speaker 2: that we've recently talked about on the show. They both

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Speaker 2: deal with themes of mid century midlife crisis and fantastic

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Speaker 2: treatments of desired or undesired change. In The Incredible Shrinking Man,

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Speaker 2: our protagonist is literally diminished and ultimately reaches a point

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Speaker 2: of acceptance and ultimately even transcendence. Seconds, however, deals with

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Speaker 2: the siren song of escape and liberation from one's own life,

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Speaker 2: and is ultimately a far darker tale.

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Speaker 3: Agree one hundred percent. These are both excellent movies and

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Speaker 3: offer really interesting philosophical counterpoints to one another.

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Speaker 2: My elevator pitch is feature length twilight zone midlife crisis.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and hear the audio from

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Speaker 2: the trailer.

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Speaker 5: A bold, bizarre, terrifying.

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Speaker 4: Rock Hudson in an astonishing change of pace stars in seconds.

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Speaker 4: Rock Hudson as a second freed from all responsibilities, now

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Speaker 4: ready to taste new pleasures. Rock Hudson as a man

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Speaker 4: who buys for himself a totally new life, a chance

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Speaker 4: to begin again every man's dream since time began.

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Speaker 5: As soon as these people leave, I'm going to attack you.

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Speaker 4: I want you to know that I'm counting on it.

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Speaker 4: Rock Hudson as a man who lives the nightmare of

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Speaker 4: being a second stirring Have.

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Speaker 5: You liked that? Hey, John, John, John? Why are they

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Speaker 5: stirring me like that? They know? He O what they're like?

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Speaker 5: You reborn?

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Speaker 2: All right? Now, if you're eager to go out and

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Speaker 2: see this film for yourself before we discuss it any further,

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Speaker 2: and this would be a good place to do that

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Speaker 2: because after this, you know, we're going to start getting

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Speaker 2: into the characters and into the plot, and even in

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Speaker 2: discussing the characters, we're going to spoil a few things

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Speaker 2: for you. So yeah, go out and see it if

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Speaker 2: you're interested. It's widely available on digital and it was

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Speaker 2: released on Blu Ray as part of the Criterion collection.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a film that, despite it's seeming mixed

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Speaker 2: reviews when it came out, or mixed reception critically, and

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Speaker 2: so forth. It has developed a cult following over the decades,

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Speaker 2: and I think is largely very well received and admired today.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think it really aged into proper acclaim.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Well, let's talk about some of the

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Speaker 2: folks involved in making this picture. Starting at the top,

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Speaker 2: I mentioned that this is a John Frankenheimer film. He

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Speaker 2: directed it. Frankenheimer lived nineteen thirty through two thousand and two.

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Speaker 2: Started out in TV in the mid fifties and directed

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Speaker 2: twenty six episodes of Climax exclamation Point. He made his

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Speaker 2: film directorial debut with nineteen fifty seven's The Young Stranger,

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Speaker 2: a drama starring Kim Hunter. In the sixties, though, he

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Speaker 2: really came into his own first with The Young Savages,

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Speaker 2: a nineteen sixty one street gang flick starring Burt Lancaster

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Speaker 2: as a district attorney, not as a troubled youth, I

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Speaker 2: should say, because I don't know Burt Lancaster ever was

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Speaker 2: a youth. He also did a trio of films in

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two, All Fall Down with Warren Beatty, Birdman

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Speaker 2: of Alcatraz, with Lancaster and Carl Malden and The Manchurian

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Speaker 2: Candidate starring Frank Sinatra and Angela Lansberry. That is probably

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Speaker 2: one of his more famous films.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a very different kind of genre and subject matter.

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Speaker 3: I would say one thing that is shared in common

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Speaker 3: between Manchurian Candidate and Seconds is the atmosphere of secretiveness

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Speaker 3: and paranoia that is conjured in both films.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this after This came nineteen sixty four to

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Speaker 2: seven Days in May. This is about a military coup

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Speaker 2: taking place in the United States, which I think also

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Speaker 2: has similar strains you know, obviously of conspiracy and so

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Speaker 2: forth in paranoia. And then a film called The Train,

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Speaker 2: which I think is maybe a little less on the

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Speaker 2: intrigue and conspiracy spectrum. And then comes the movie Seconds.

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Speaker 2: Frankenheimer continued to work steadily throughout the rest of his life,

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Speaker 2: and some of the standouts include seventy five's The French

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Speaker 2: Connection two, nineteen seventy seven's Black Sunday. This was the

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Speaker 2: first film adaptation of a Thomas Harris novel. The nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy nine Mutant Bear movie Prophecy, which we've we've mentioned

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Speaker 2: a few times on the show before.

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Speaker 3: Seems to come up frequently.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's a Mutant Bear movie,

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Speaker 2: directed by John Frankenheimer. I still haven't seen it all

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Speaker 2: the way. I started watching it and then realized it

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Speaker 2: it was maybe too serious for what I had in

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Speaker 2: mind for myself. He directed the nineteen eighty two John

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Speaker 2: Salis scripted action movie The Challenge, starring Scott glenn In

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Speaker 2: Toshiro Mafuni. Nineteen ninety four is The Burning Season starring

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Speaker 2: Raal Julia. He of course stepped in to replace Richard

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Speaker 2: Stanley on nineteen ninety six is The Island of Doctor Moreau.

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Speaker 2: And then he also directed nineteen ninety eight's Ronan, which

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Speaker 2: is a pretty entertaining espionage thriller. As I recall, it's

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Speaker 2: got a really solid cast and some excellent vehicular stunts.

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Speaker 3: I think that's one of those movies I saw when

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Speaker 3: you know, I was like too young to understand the

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Speaker 3: plot at all, but I do remember, like Robert de

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Speaker 3: Niro and Sean Bean and still in Scars Guard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, even you don't have to understand the plot of Ronan. Really,

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Speaker 2: it's just, you know, various spy types are encountering each

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Speaker 2: other saying cryptic things, and then stuff gets blown up

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Speaker 2: and so forth. All Right. This greenplay for this film

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Speaker 2: was written by Lewis John Carlino, who lived nineteen thirty

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Speaker 2: two through twenty twenty American screenwriter and director. He'd written

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Speaker 2: for TV previously, but this was his first feature screenplay credit,

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Speaker 2: but certainly not the last. His later screenplays include nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy twos of the Mechanic and nineteen seventy nine's The

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Speaker 2: Great Santini starring Robert Devall. This was based on the

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Speaker 2: Pat conroy novel, and Carlino also directed that film. Now

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Speaker 2: this film, Seconds is based on the novel by David

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Speaker 2: Ealy born nineteen twenty seven. The only other adaptation of

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Speaker 2: his work that I ran across as a nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: one segment on Night Gallery titled The Academy starring Pat Boone.

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Speaker 2: I think I've seen this one because I think it's

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Speaker 2: season one, but I don't remember it at all. Seconds

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Speaker 2: was a nineteen sixty three novel, and his other works

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Speaker 2: include sixty eight Time Out and nineteen ninety twos A

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Speaker 2: Journal of the Flood Year, all Right, Getting into the

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Speaker 2: cast here and Yes, There are gonna be some spoilers

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Speaker 2: as we discussed, like who who each of these people

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Speaker 2: is playing. We have this character named Arthur Hamilton. He's

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Speaker 2: the initial incarnation of our protagonist, a successful man who's

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Speaker 2: deeply uncomfortable in his own life and completely bottled up emotionally.

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Speaker 2: It is, in my opinion, just a really great performance

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Speaker 2: by the actor. John Randolph, who lived nineteen fifteen through

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four.

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Speaker 3: Agree that the cast is excellent across the board. I

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Speaker 3: think really everybody who gets speaking roles in this is

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Speaker 3: very good, But the two actors playing the protagonist are

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Speaker 3: I think should be singled out for really high praise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously a performance doesn't exist in isolation.

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Speaker 2: Randolph's performance here is accentuated by great direction, great cinematography.

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Speaker 2: But man, it really all comes together in this very

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable and at times like really surprisingly raw, like emotionally raw,

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Speaker 2: and also just paranoia inducing performance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: Randolph was born Emmanuel Hirsch Cohen and was active on

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Speaker 2: Broadway as far back as nineteen thirty eight according to

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Speaker 2: the Internet Broadway Database, and his earliest TV and film

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Speaker 2: credits go back to forty eight and forty nine, but

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Speaker 2: he and his wife Sarah Cunningham were both blacklisted around

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Speaker 2: that time, and in nineteen fifty five they were both

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Speaker 2: called to testify before the House and American Activities Committee.

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Speaker 2: As such, Randolph was forced to work outside of Hollywood

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Speaker 2: and New York film, television and radio for a good

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Speaker 2: fifteen years.

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Speaker 3: Man, I feel like Huak has been coming up a

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Speaker 3: lot in Weird House episodes recently. That's not by design,

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Speaker 3: It just happens.

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Speaker 2: To me, It just happens. It seems like it's a

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Speaker 2: case of watching meaningful films with talented folks in them

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Speaker 2: from this time period just ended up impacting so many people,

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Speaker 2: either the Blacklist or the Gray List or the ramifications

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Speaker 2: of those lists. So anyway, Yeah, he continued working in

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Speaker 2: New York theater. I don't think that was like directly impacted.

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Speaker 2: It may have been indirectly, but his TV and film

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Speaker 2: credits are pretty bluster up until the mid sixties, and

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Speaker 2: this film Seconds was his first real film role coming

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Speaker 2: out of that blacklist period. Now, after Seconds, he did

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Speaker 2: a lot more TV work, including Night Gallery, and played

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Speaker 2: the chairman in two Planet of the Apes movies, Escape

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Speaker 2: in Conquest. At seventy one and seventy two. He was

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Speaker 2: in Serpico in seventy three, the al Pacino cop movie.

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Speaker 2: He was in the seventy six King Kong film Heaven

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Speaker 2: Can Waite in seventy eight, Pritzy's Honor in eighty five. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I didn't recognize him at all from this, but he

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Speaker 2: was in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation in eighty nine playing

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Speaker 2: Clark griswold sor no memory of that, though I've seen

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Speaker 2: that movie. Yeah, he was in You've Got Mail in

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Speaker 2: ninety eight, and he played the original Frank Costanza on Seinfeld.

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Speaker 2: I either didn't know or had forgotten that this was

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Speaker 2: ever a case of someone else ever having played the

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Speaker 2: plot for Jerry Stiller, and I couldn't find a clear an.

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Speaker 2: It seems like it might have been just scheduling issues

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Speaker 2: that the reason they ended up replacing him as playing

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Speaker 2: Frank Castanza, but it also may have been a desire

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Speaker 2: to go in a new direction with the character. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure. I can't can't really imagine him being Frank

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Speaker 2: is Stanza long term on the show. Likewise, I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine Jerry Stiller playing this role in this movie.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I really want to give credit to

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Speaker 3: Randolph in this role because he's very good, and in

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Speaker 3: many ways it's a thankless kind of performance because he

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Speaker 3: it's very complex and he's pitch perfect in it, but

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Speaker 3: it's a role where he doesn't really get to branch

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Speaker 3: out and like offer much emotion because like the whole

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Speaker 3: point is that his character is kind of like unfulfilled

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Speaker 3: and unfulfilling. He's just sitting there like containing all of

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Speaker 3: his disappointment within himself and not really getting to express it.

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Speaker 3: And this character does have an arc where he goes

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Speaker 3: other places, but as we're about to reveal in a minute,

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Speaker 3: this actor doesn't get to be there for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the key thing is that as a

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Speaker 2: vessel containing these complex emotions that are just straining to

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Speaker 2: leak out, Like you can see that, you can observe that,

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Speaker 2: you can feel that in its performance, and it's not

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Speaker 2: it's not a situation where you just have to imagine,

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Speaker 2: you know, purely imagine what's going on inside, like you

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Speaker 2: can see the gears turning. So excellent performance. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: And you know, I don't think i'd really seen much

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Speaker 2: of his work before outside of obviously Christmas vacation, which

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Speaker 2: you know is perfectly fine. I've seen it a million times,

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Speaker 2: but not really a showcase for his work, all right.

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Speaker 2: Playing author Hamilton's wife Emily Hamilton is Francis Reid, who

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Speaker 2: lived nineteen fourteen through twenty ten. American actor, best known

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Speaker 2: in film for her role here, but she also acted

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy one's The Andromeda Strain soap opera. Fans, however,

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Speaker 2: might recognize her from this is correct three three hundred

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Speaker 2: and ninety three episodes of Days of Our Lives, on

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Speaker 2: which she played Alice Horton from nineteen sixty five through

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 3: How is that even possible? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It just it sounds astounding, But I guess they just

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Speaker 2: really cranked these out. I mean, this was like a

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Speaker 2: daily show, right.

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Speaker 3: That sound I had no idea that show ran that long.

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Speaker 3: But also I want to say Francis Reid extremely good

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Speaker 3: in this movie in a similarly thankless kind of role

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Speaker 3: to to John Randolph here, that she you know, she

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Speaker 3: plays a character whose complexity is a lot in what

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Speaker 3: she doesn't get to say and doesn't get too emote.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, So I think it's also a solid performance,

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Speaker 2: and there's there's kind of a part one in part

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Speaker 2: two of it that I think equals things out really well.

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Speaker 2: All Right, the next character we're going to discuss here

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Speaker 2: has a different name. It's Antiochus Wilson or Wilson as

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Speaker 2: he's mostly referred to. This is the reborn author Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: So this is we'll explain, this is the character he becomes.

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Speaker 2: He is reborn as this person through like surgical reconstruction

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Speaker 2: and through fraudulent documents and so forth. There's a whole

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Speaker 2: organization we'll get to that, but basically, one character becomes

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Speaker 2: this other take on the character, and a new actor

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Speaker 2: takes over the role. That actor is Rock Hudson, who

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Speaker 2: lived nineteen twenty five through nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 3: I'm not super well versed on Rock Hudson's career, but

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Speaker 3: from what I understand, this was a major departure for

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Speaker 3: him that he had mostly done much lighter movies. You know,

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Speaker 3: he's known as that, like, he's a handsome guy. He's

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Speaker 3: there to like be like the fun, good looking guy

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Speaker 3: in like a romance or romantic comedy or something to

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Speaker 3: be in a in a dark, brooding, philosophical science fiction

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Speaker 3: film like this. I don't think think he'd really done

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Speaker 3: anything like this, had he?

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Speaker 2: No, No, I was looking around. I don't think he'd

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Speaker 2: ever done anything that you could classify as horror or

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Speaker 2: science fiction or certainly fantasy. And you know, part of

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Speaker 2: that is we've discussed highly successful actors or directors or

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Speaker 2: what have you of the day, they generally didn't have

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Speaker 2: to do that. It's such an inversion of what we

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Speaker 2: have today, where the biggest actors around are you know,

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Speaker 2: almost inevitably, with some notable exceptions. Obviously there's no any

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Speaker 2: of these generalities are not going to be one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: But you know, it's not surprising to see someone who's

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Speaker 2: won multiple Oscars show up in a Marvel movie or

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Speaker 2: in you know, whatever the or Star Wars or what

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Speaker 2: have you. But back in the day, you know, as

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Speaker 2: we've discussed on these various genre pictures, they were lower

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Speaker 2: down on the pecking order, and so yeah, it's not

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Speaker 2: surprising to find a situation for Rockets and had never

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Speaker 2: been in a movie that had robots or aliens or

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Speaker 2: even you know, the sort of ultimately kind of light

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Speaker 2: sophisticated sci fi, you know, kind of more Twilight Zone

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Speaker 2: ish l elements that you find in this picture. Like

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Speaker 2: you said he was, I mean, he was a nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifties leading man, perhaps, I mean not just a he

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Speaker 2: was kind of the nineteen fifties leading man. He's the

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Speaker 2: top build actor in this film, and he was easily

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest, if not biggest movie stars off

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Speaker 2: his era. His main film roles were stuff like his

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Speaker 2: biggest pictures anyway from the fifties were stuff like All

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Speaker 2: That Heaven Allows, Giant Written on the Wind, and Pillar Talk.

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Speaker 2: These are all movies where you look at you can

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Speaker 2: pull them up now on the database of your choice.

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Speaker 2: And all the posters prominently feature his character romantically embracing

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Speaker 2: the lead actress. That is not the case with Seconds No.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, going into that, this was a departure, and

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Speaker 2: I'm to understand he was not Frankenheimer's first choice for

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Speaker 2: the role. Apparently Frankenheimer considered rock Hudson to, you know,

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Speaker 2: to be maybe a lighter weight actor. Ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 2: he's the rom com guy, he's the heart throb guy.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I need somebody like a Bert Land caster.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately he gets sold on rock Hudson, Like his

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Speaker 2: agent says, you know, no, Hudson can do this. He's

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Speaker 2: excited for this role and and in thees so Frankenheimers

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Speaker 2: proved wrong and has admitted to such, and and I know,

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Speaker 2: I absolutely agree. I think Hudson's performance in this is great.

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Speaker 2: I think he perfectly captures this sense of the reborn

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Speaker 2: in seconds.

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Speaker 3: Fully agree. I wouldn't want anybody else in this role.

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Speaker 3: I think he's fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like he's playing a character that's outwardly strong

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Speaker 2: and confident, you know, a complete transformation from his previous incarnation,

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Speaker 2: but inside, you know there's still this uncertainty, there's perhaps

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Speaker 2: this sense of inadequacy, and you can see all of

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Speaker 2: that happening.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: It just was I was worried, honestly because the first

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Speaker 2: performance of this character, John Randolph's performance is so strong.

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Speaker 2: I was like, even not being that familiar with Rock

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Speaker 2: Hudson's work, I was like, I don't know, I Hudson's

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Speaker 2: going to really be able to pull this off. Feel

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Speaker 2: it's going to feel unequal, But I really think that

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Speaker 2: he pulls off a great performance here, And yeah, I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine it being any different now. Hudson would go

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Speaker 2: on to appear in two more films you could qualify

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Speaker 2: as science fiction nineteen seventy six is Embryo and nineteen

397
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Speaker 2: eighties The Martian Chronicles, and the various other films. I

398
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Speaker 2: think he's in an avalanche movie that was covered on

399
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Speaker 2: Mystery Science Theater at some point late in his career.

400
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Speaker 2: Much has been written about Hudson's personal life, as he

401
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: was a gay man working at a time and in

402
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Speaker 2: a position that did not permit him to live openly

403
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Speaker 2: as such. And this is also factored into a fair

404
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: amount of film analysis, you know, retrospectively concerning seconds. But

405
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Speaker 2: any way you shake it, anyway you look at it,

406
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Speaker 2: this is now largely considered to be one of his

407
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Speaker 2: best performances. I think I read that it's a performance

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Speaker 2: that Hudson himself was very proud of, and I think

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Speaker 2: with good reason.

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Speaker 3: Here here hats off to Rock Hudson.

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Speaker 2: This is one of those episodes where we don't get

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Speaker 2: to harp on any bio or critique anybody's performance. It's

413
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Speaker 2: like every one of them is like, Wow, they nailed it,

414
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Speaker 2: absolutely well.

415
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it is across the board. I feel

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Speaker 3: like everybody did great, great work here.

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Speaker 2: Now up Next, we have Salome Jens playing Nora Marcus

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Speaker 2: Or nineteen thirty five American modern dancer turned actor of stage,

419
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Speaker 2: screen and TV. Her first major role was playing the

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Speaker 2: Future Woman in nineteen fifty eight Terror from the Year

421
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Speaker 2: of five thousand, a movie some of you mistis out

422
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Speaker 2: there might remember from Mystery Senti's Theater three thousand. It's

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00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 2: not actually that memorable a film, but a lot of

424
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: people probably saw it through MST. She played the title

425
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: role in nineteen sixty one's Angel Baby, which starred George

426
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: Hamilton and was the film debut of Burt Reynolds pre Mustache.

427
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 2: Of course, she was in sixty five's The Fool Killer

428
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: opposite Anthony Perkins. And then comes Seconds in which she

429
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Speaker 2: plays this captivating character Nora, that our protagonist encounters in

430
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Speaker 2: his new life in bohemian California.

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Speaker 3: She is a self actualized free spirit who has taken

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Speaker 3: her life into her own hands, and she represents, in

433
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 3: a way, I think, the potential to live life in

434
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 3: freedom and self determination.

435
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's so alive, but to the degree that, at

436
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 2: least through the lens of our main character, you know

437
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: she is exciting and full of promise, but also maybe

438
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: a little bit intimidating and frightening, and I think it's

439
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 2: all played perfectly. It's a very lively and charismatic performance.

440
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: So hats off to solome A Gen's here. She worked

441
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: a lot after this, mostly in TV, but her TV

442
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,959
Speaker 2: credentials are really solid, including The Outer Limits, the original

443
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: Outer Limits. She was also in a single episode of

444
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 2: Tales from the Cryptomaniac at Large. That one's notable because

445
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: that one was directed by John Frankenheimer. That was a

446
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: pretty solid episode. That was one that we actually discussed

447
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: on a past anthology of horror for stuff to blow

448
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: your mind. Oh okay, that one had adam Ant in it.

449
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: You might recall. She also pops up on Star Trek

450
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: the Next Generation, and also had a more substantial role

451
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: as the female shape shifter on fifteen episodes of Star

452
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: Trek Deep Space nine. She narrated nineteen eighty six's Clan

453
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: of the Cave Bear and did other voice work late

454
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: in her career. All right, So at the heart of

455
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: this movie, there's a sinister corporation that is called The Company,

456
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: and it has various individuals working in it. I'm going

457
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: to go lighter on the backgrounds on these actors just

458
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 2: because I don't want to spend the entire podcast just

459
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: talking about the stellar cast. But heading this up, or

460
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: seemingly heading this up is the Old Man played by

461
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: Will Gear, who lived nineteen oh two through nineteen seventy eight,

462
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: botanist turned actor and lifelong activists who also found himself

463
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 2: blacklisted in nineteen fifties Hollywood after refusing to name names

464
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 2: before Congress. Other films of note include nineteen sixty sevens

465
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: in Cold Blood. In nineteen seventy two's Jeremiah Johnson.

466
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: Will Gear really stood out to me. He was perfect

467
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 3: in his role. I think we can talk more about

468
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 3: him when we get into the plot.

469
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we also have a man by the name of

470
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: mister Ruby played by Jeff Corey. Jeff Corey lived nineteen

471
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: fourteen through two thousand and two, another stage and screen

472
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: actor blacklisted during the nineteen fifties, also for refusing to

473
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: name names. He became a noted acting teacher during that

474
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 2: period and worked with a number of future stars. His

475
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: biggest films include sixty nine's True Grit, as well as

476
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 2: Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid and nineteen seventies Beneath

477
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: the Planet of the Apes, also the film Little Big

478
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 2: Man from nineteen seventy. We also have a character named

479
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: Doctor Inness. This is the I guess, the plastic surgeon

480
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: that works for the company, and he is played by

481
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: Richard Anderson who lived nineteen twenty six through twenty seventeen.

482
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: American actor, best known on screen for supporting roles in

483
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: fifty eight Paths of Glory, fifty nine's Compulsion, and fifty

484
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: six is Forbidden Planet. On TV, he played Oscar Goldman,

485
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 2: who is the boss of both the six million Dollar

486
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: Man and the six million Dollar Woman or I guess

487
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 2: like the twelve million dollar Man in Woman. There's also

488
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: another interesting character in the company, a character named Devallo,

489
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: and he's played by the actor Kai d He's a

490
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: who lived nineteen ten through nineteen ninety one an American

491
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 2: actor of Anglo Egyptian Sudanese ancestry who tended to play

492
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: characters of Asian descent in various pictures and TV projects

493
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: from nineteen fifty through about nineteen ninety. His other big

494
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 2: film was nineteen sixty two's The Manchurian Candidate, where he

495
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: played the brainwashing expert doctor Yen Lowe.

496
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay. In this movie, he has an interesting role.

497
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: It's a very small role, but an interesting moment in

498
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 3: the plot where he is there to sort of illicit

499
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: confessions and monologues from the client of this company to

500
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: sort of reveal their hidden true desires.

501
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's a similar feel, I guess in some

502
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: ways to this character from the Manchurian Candidate and also

503
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: a wonderful mustache. Yes, we also have a character named John.

504
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: We don't know his last name, he's just John. We'll

505
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: discuss his role and everything in a bit, but he's

506
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: played by Wesley Addie, who lived nineteen thirteen through nineteen

507
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: ninety six stage and screen actor, best known for nineteen

508
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: fifty five, Kissed Me Deadly, nineteen seventies Tora Tora, Tora

509
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy six is network all right? Moving outside

510
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 2: of the company here we have another character or not

511
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: completely outside of the company, but another character encounter is

512
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: a character named Charlie, and he's played by Murray Hamilton

513
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: who lived nineteen twenty three through nineteen eighty six. Stage

514
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: and screen actor who might not be as recognizable to

515
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: many in this film. But Joe, where do you know

516
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: this guy from.

517
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 3: Oh, this is the Mayor from Jaws in a way,

518
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: playing the same kind of squirrely scammer he is in Jaws.

519
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, this is Ma from the first two Jaws movies.

520
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: He was also mister Robinson in sixty sevens The Graduate,

521
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: and Father Ryan in the Amityville Horror from nineteen seventy nine.

522
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: It is weird seeing him without one of his signature

523
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: blazers from Jaws. By the way, if you've never noticed

524
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: in Jaws before the jackets that Mayor Vaughan wears, they

525
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: are words can't even describe, just chef kiss. I want

526
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: them all in my closet. One of them is an

527
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: anchor print. It's just got a little anchors all over it.

528
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: And another one is rob Look at the one with

529
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 3: the parallel lines. I don't even know how to describe this.

530
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 2: Wow, I went. I would be very surprised if someone's

531
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: not putting these out again now, because I'm served ads

532
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 2: of late for reproductions of like shirt prints from like

533
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and other films like

534
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: this is like people have realized that people just want

535
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: to wear that shirt. So how long until this Blazer

536
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: with all the anchors on. It is out when people realize, Hey,

537
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: as I you know, settle in to the late middle age,

538
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: I want to start wearing jackets like like the mayor

539
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: from Jaws does.

540
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Amity, as you know, means friendship.

541
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: All right. The music in this film is by Jerry Goldsmith,

542
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: who lived twenty nine through two thousand and four. His

543
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: work has come up on Weird House previously, I believe,

544
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: in the Congo episode and in the Grimlins two episode.

545
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: So I won't go really deep here or anything, but

546
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: suffice to say a very successful and prolific film composer,

547
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 2: and I think the score hits all the right notes.

548
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: It leans into the melodrama where that's appropriate, and certainly

549
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: into the paranoia.

550
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: I agree. I think this very strong score really does

551
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: help but drive home the paranoia. But another thing, probably

552
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: the thing that more than anything else, really sets the

553
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: tone of paranoia is the excellent cinematography.

554
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: That's right, and this is the work of James Wong Howe.

555
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: Howe lived eighteen ninety nine through nineteen seventy six, and

556
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: he's actually the reason this film initially popped up on

557
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: my race are. That was because I was reading about

558
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: notable Asian American film industry folks and James long Howe

559
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: is considered one of the best cinematographers of all time,

560
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: A real master of shadow. Was highly sought after for

561
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: multiple decades, ultimately earned ten Oscar nominations, including for this

562
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: film and one two of them they're only like. When

563
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: I was looking into him, I was like, well, hopefully

564
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: this guy did some weird films, something that we could

565
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: discuss for weird house cinema. And out of all the

566
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: movies he did, I think only two or three classify it,

567
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: but this was one of them, and I'm glad we

568
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: went with this one.

569
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: Another one I think it was Mark of the Vampire, right,

570
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 3: which is a vampire movie famous for having kind of

571
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 3: a Scooby Doo ending.

572
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a Todd Browning. It's supposed to

573
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: look gorgeous. Nineteen thirty five has a great cast, but

574
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: I don't think it's the Todd Browning film we need

575
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: to watch. So this one was I think the right

576
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: choice for James Wonghowe.

577
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. I haven't seen that other movie, but you can't

578
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: be disappointed with his work on this one. It's just amazing.

579
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: So how was born in but his father went to

580
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: work in America for the Northern Pacific Railway and eventually

581
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: was able to bring his family over as well. I

582
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: think how would have been four or five at the time.

583
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: His father eventually ran a general store in Washington State,

584
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 2: and Howe got his young hands on an Eastman Kodak

585
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: Brownie camera, which I'm to understand was kind of like

586
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: this was where things would begin his interest in photography,

587
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: ultimately cinematography now as he grew older, he tried his

588
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 2: hand at a few different career paths, but eventually worked

589
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: his way into first commercial photography and then cinematography in

590
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: la during the Silent film era. He did assistant camera

591
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: and clapper work as early as nineteen nineteen, but served

592
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: as a cinematographer for the first time on nineteen twenty

593
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: three's Drums of Fate, due apparently in part to star

594
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: Mary Miles Minter, who took note of Howe's technical ability

595
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: capturing I believe the darkness in her eyes or he

596
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: had some trick for photographing her just the way, and

597
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: she's like, well, this is the guy, this is who

598
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: I want to work with, and work he did. He

599
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: worked steadily throughout the twenties, thirties and forties, and became

600
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 2: highly sought after working with such directors as Howard Hawks

601
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: again Todd Browning. He worked on such films as nineteen

602
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: thirty four as The Thin Man. He was also the

603
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: uncredited cinematographer on those orchestra segments in Disney's Fantasia in

604
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: nineteen forty.

605
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: Oh okay.

606
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: He made numerous technological innovations as well, and ultimately cemented

607
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: his place as an innovator and master, particularly of shadow

608
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 2: as well as deep focused cinematography. Now in many respects, Yeah,

609
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: his is a great Chinese American success story, but it's

610
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: also essential to realize a lot of what he was

611
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 2: up against. He couldn't obtain US citizenship till the nineteen

612
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: forties due to the Chinese Exclusion Act, which ran from

613
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 2: eighteen eighty two through nineteen forty three, and he also

614
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: could neither legally marry or publicly acknowledge his wife, Sonora

615
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: Babb until the nineteen fifty due to California laws against

616
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: interracial marriage and the moral clause of his studio contract,

617
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: which I think that the basic idea is there, Like,

618
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 2: he couldn't legally marry her, and then due to the

619
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: moral clause of his contract, he could not like publicly

620
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: be in a relationship with her that sort of thing. Then,

621
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: during the years of the Hollywood Blacklist, his wife was

622
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: blacklisted for alleged Communist sympathies, and Howl himself was gray listed.

623
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 2: This forced them to move to Mexico for a period,

624
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: though year by year his output seemed to remain pretty

625
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: steady by the look of things, so you know, one

626
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: way or another, he was still finding projects to work on.

627
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: Other films of note that he worked on include nineteen

628
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: fifty six's The Rose Tattoo. This was his first Oscar win,

629
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty eight's The Old Man in the Sea, nineteen

630
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: sixty three's Hud That's also one that won him an Oscar,

631
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight's The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter, nineteen

632
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 2: seventies The Molly Maguires, and nineteen seventy five's Funny Lady.

633
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: This was his last film for which he was also

634
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 2: nominated for an Oscar. He also has eight directorial credits

635
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: to his name, including nineteen fifty fours Go Man Go

636
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty eight's Invisible Danger. But again his work

637
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 2: in this film is just tremendous. I think you've never

638
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: seen a film that he worked on like this is

639
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: a perfect starting place.

640
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, all right, were ready to talk about the plot,

641
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 3: let's do it, all right. So I found myself thinking

642
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 3: we probably shouldn't do a detailed scene by scene recap

643
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: of this one like we do in some episodes. Actually,

644
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: this movie got me thinking about which movies feel right

645
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 3: for them and which ones don't. Somehow, I think it's

646
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 3: the campier or sillier outings that really invite the more

647
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: minute scene by scene treatment, and for some reason, the

648
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 3: more weighty and serious dramas don't. I don't exactly know

649
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: why that is, but that does to be the general trend.

650
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 2: A lot of times, we kind of breathe life into

651
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: the spaces where there's not life, and yeah, a film

652
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: like this, it's like all the spaces are occupied, all

653
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: the spaces are meaningful, and they don't necessarily need us

654
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: to interpret them exactly.

655
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 3: So something would feel kind of cheap, I think about

656
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: looking at it too closely. So instead we're going to

657
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 3: zoom in and zoom out a little bit. But one

658
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 3: place I do want to start zoomed in is the

659
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 3: very beginning with the opening credits, where we have dissonant

660
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 3: mechanical music, almost like the sound of a kind of

661
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: scanning device emitting a signal that there is something being

662
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 3: detected right here. It made me think of the motion

663
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 3: trackers and aliens, but I don't know, some kind of

664
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: music like that. And then you also have dark, moody

665
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: strings and minor chords on the organ. Again, this is

666
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: a score by Jerry Goldsmith. Kind of reminds me in

667
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 3: a way of some of Howard Shor's music for like

668
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 3: David Cronenberg movies. Yeah, that would come later, of course.

669
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 3: And throughout the credit sequence we have extreme close ups

670
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: on human and facial features with a kind of fun

671
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 3: house mirror effect. Everything is warped and inverting upon itself lips, teeth, ears, eyes,

672
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: and then there's one part that's kind of funny with

673
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: the name Rock Hudson appearing across the sclare of a

674
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 3: tortured eyeball, and then finally a face covered in cloth wrapping,

675
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 3: almost like a ski mask, but I think it is

676
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 3: supposed to be bandages.

677
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 2: Now it's a note that the One and Only saw

678
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: Bass is credited with the titles here He of course

679
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: directed Phase four, the Ant movie that we discussed on

680
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: the show previously, though to just call it an ant

681
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: movie is almost a disservice. That was his one and

682
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: only feature directing credit. But the man's main bread and

683
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: butter was this sort of work.

684
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, like main titles and credit sequences and stuff posters

685
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: as well.

686
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and these are great, But again, but kind of

687
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: to your point, if you don't want to look up

688
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: anybody's nose or into someone's ear, if that's like a

689
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 2: real turn off for you, you might want to skip

690
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: this section of the movie.

691
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 3: Well if you, if you got that kind of constitution,

692
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 3: you might just not want to watch seconds. Yeah, so

693
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 3: the movie begins. You were speaking earlier about the paranoid cinematography,

694
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 3: and there's a great example of that right at the beginning.

695
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 3: The movie begins with a man moving through a train station.

696
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 3: I think it's actually Grand Central station. It is, And

697
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: there is a type of shot that I believe occurs

698
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: several times in the film where the camera is kind

699
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 3: of floating over the man's shoulder from behind and following

700
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 3: him very tightly as he moves. It's almost like it's

701
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 3: glued to him. And this has for some reason, a

702
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 3: very unsettling paranoid effect. It's like the feeling of an

703
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,959
Speaker 3: unseen spirit chasing and observing your every move.

704
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, this movie doesn't play around with these the

705
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: feeling of something unsettling about the nature of reality.

706
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 3: And so it's following this man through a train station.

707
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 3: We see this man moving, and then another man who's

708
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: always sort of photographed from the middle of the face

709
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 3: up I believe, with like the brim of his hat

710
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 3: down in in a kind of sinister way, following behind him.

711
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: So the man who's walking ahead turns out to be

712
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 3: our protagonist, Arthur Hamilton, and the stranger who's following him

713
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: follows him through the crowd, down the stairs, all the

714
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: way onto a train and then suddenly calls out his

715
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: name and hands him an address written on a piece

716
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 3: of paper and then departs, leaving Arthur just standing there

717
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 3: on the train baffled. What is this?

718
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the whole setup, it's like, what's gonna happen?

719
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: Is so I'm gonna be stabbed or shot? You No,

720
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: there's a handoff of a note, and somehow that makes

721
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 2: it all the more sinister because you know, especially from

722
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: the individual's reaction like there's something really wrong about about

723
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: what just happened. Nothing good will come of this.

724
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: I guess we should take a moment to describe Arthur

725
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: the man here. What is his vibe?

726
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: Well, it's like we kind of discussed earlier. He has

727
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 2: a vessel, an unleaking vessel, straining with all sorts of

728
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: uncomfortable emotions. He is not comfortable in his own flesh,

729
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: in his own body. He's a man in his I mean,

730
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: to be one accurate. I mean, the actor himself was

731
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: in his early fifties at this point, though it's nineteen fifties,

732
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: early fifties, which is kind of a different animal than

733
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: we tend to have nowadays. You know, a lot is

734
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: said and commented upon regarding like differences in aging or

735
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: seemingly different there are differences in aging, etc.

736
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: I think the way he plays it and the way

737
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: he's made up in photographed just makes him feel older

738
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 3: than he actually is. Yeah, so we learn a bit

739
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: about Arthur's life. We see him interacting with his wife,

740
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 3: we see him at work. He is a moderately successful

741
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 3: man in middle age. He's a banker. He obviously has

742
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: a steady income and some accumulated wealth. He has a

743
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 3: very nice home. He has a wife and an adult

744
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,959
Speaker 3: daughter who is out of the home now. She lives

745
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 3: with her husband in another state. And yet he seems

746
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: rather unhappy with his life. And this doesn't come from

747
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 3: overt expressions of emotion, but rather from kind of what

748
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: is unsaid and his something kind of straining underneath the surface.

749
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 3: We see him at his job, where he obviously makes

750
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: a very good living. It seems he could hardly complain

751
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: about that, and yet he is just clearly bored with

752
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 3: his work and preoccupied. We see scenes of Arthur and

753
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 3: his wife emily interacting, and there's an interesting approach here.

754
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 3: I feel like a lesser film might have made their

755
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: relationship more strife ridden or more strained. But they don't fight,

756
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 3: they're not overtly unhappy. They are basically loving and supportive

757
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: of one another. But there's something kind of intangible missing.

758
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: You get the sense that their marriage is basically celibate,

759
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: and that they're like in that he reads this in

760
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: a way that's just kind of gray and disappointing.

761
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he's like a lesser film would have also

762
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 2: made him just completely cold, and it's not quite what's

763
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 2: going on. There's this just this this sense of like

764
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 2: I feel like I should want to and yet I cannot. Yeah,

765
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: sort of thing, you know. It's it's it's complex.

766
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 3: And in the middle of all this, Arthur has begun

767
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 3: receiving strange phone calls in the middle of the night,

768
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 3: calls that claim to be from someone he knows from

769
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: his old friend, Charlie, who played They played tennis together

770
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: when they were in college. And at first this seems

771
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: impossible because Charlie died several years before. But one night,

772
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 3: the man claiming to be Charlie gets Arthur talking and

773
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 3: he provides all kinds of private details that no one

774
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 3: would have any way of knowing. It has to be Charlie.

775
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 3: But how could he be back from the dead. Well,

776
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 3: Charlie tells Arthur to go to the address the man

777
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 3: on the train gave him. He sort of like gives

778
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 3: him this this exhortation. I think he I don't recall exactly.

779
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 3: I think I think he also sort of implies like,

780
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 3: you've got to do it for me.

781
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 5: M Yeah.

782
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 3: Now, I'm not going to go into great detail about this,

783
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 3: but this does lead to a kind of hunt sequence

784
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: where where Arthur decides that he does have to go

785
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: find this place, this address, and he goes to like

786
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 3: this laundromat where he's asking around about it. I liked

787
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 3: this whole sequence because it's not exactly easy to find

788
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 3: the thing that Arthur is looking for, and he doesn't

789
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 3: even know what it is he's looking for. He's looking

790
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 3: for an unknown and yet he's he's going to all

791
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: these lengths to find it.

792
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and really going through, you know, the underbelly

793
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: of the world here, like the laundry mat where you know,

794
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 2: where the garments are washed and pressed and their steam

795
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 2: and sweat going through. Then this there's this whole scene

796
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: where they're going through this like meat processing place where

797
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: you know, obviously big swabs of meat is taking place,

798
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: animals are being processed, and people are walking around and

799
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: in smocks, you know, and the whole time we're like,

800
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: oh my god, what's gonna what's gonna happen? Author or

801
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: you should really really be walking in I don't want

802
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: to say confidently, because he doesn't really do anything with confidence,

803
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 2: but it's there's it's a very sinister ara to everything.

804
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 3: I think the significance of the meat packing plants the

805
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 3: gateway to his final destination will make a lot more

806
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: sense once you see the end of the film. Yeah, So,

807
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 3: eventually Arthur meets someone who knows what he's looking for,

808
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: and they sort of like they They load him into

809
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 3: the back of a truck because he can't see where

810
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 3: he's going, and he's transported into the bowels of some

811
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: large building with no windows, to the heart of a

812
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: secretive organization. And they have a proposition for him. They say, Arthur,

813
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 3: what if you could have another chance at life? In fact,

814
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: we know that you are unhappy with your life, You

815
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 3: are not satisfied. What if you could start over somewhere

816
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 3: else and have the life that you really wanted, that

817
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 3: you know you should have had to begin with. This

818
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 3: company claims they can give that to you. They charge

819
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: a very hefty fee they're going to take. I think

820
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 3: they say it's thirty thousand dollars, which is a lot

821
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 3: in the money of the time. But they can do

822
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 3: this impossible thing. They will stage your death, freeing you

823
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: from your family and work obligations, and they will give

824
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: you advanced plastic surgery basically full body plastic surgery to

825
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: completely transform your identity and appearance so they can take

826
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 3: this bored, middle aged man and his boring gray life

827
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: and transform him into the man he wishes he could be.

828
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 3: Now there's an interesting ripple here because at first Arthur

829
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 3: seems very hesitant, but they say, well, we know everybody

830
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 3: actually wants this, but they're going to feel unable to

831
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 3: say yes. So to help you along with your decision,

832
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 3: we have removed that choice for you with the help

833
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: of blackmail. So they say, when you first arrived, we

834
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 3: drugged you and we took photos staging a fake sexual

835
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: assault with you as the perpetrator, and if you try

836
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: to leave, we'll release the photos. So you have no choice.

837
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 3: You have to say yes. But this is presented as

838
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: we're doing you a favor because we know you want

839
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 3: to agree to this. You just don't feel like you can.

840
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 3: Now you don't have a choice.

841
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like we both know you want to leave

842
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: this lot in a new car. To help you out,

843
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: we went ahead and set your old car on fire.

844
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: Yes, and all this is.

845
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: Played very well, like you can see just how uncomfortable

846
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 2: and afraid he becomes at this, and the whole setup

847
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: for it is also like hypnotic and disturbing, so already

848
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: we're well into the twilight zone here.

849
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 3: Right, But despite all of his hesitation and fear, Arthur

850
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: does agree. So he undergoes plastic surgery and then a

851
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: serious rehabilitation course and is transformed from his boring doughe

852
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 3: middle aged self into Rock Hudson, a lithe, dashingly handsome

853
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 3: and glam man, and he's given a full new identity.

854
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: He's a man called Antiochus Wilson. Now, of course, since

855
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: the company faked his death and committed all this fraud,

856
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 3: he has to keep his past life absolutely secret, so

857
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 3: he can't go around saying, you know, I used to

858
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 3: be this other guy. He has to just pretend all

859
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 3: he is is Antiochus Wilson, that other life never existed.

860
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: During this process, he undergoes therapy sessions to sort of

861
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 3: I think it's to uncover his true desires. And there's

862
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 3: a theme that emerges during these therapy sessions that'll come

863
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 3: up a couple of times in the film, where I

864
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 3: think they put him under hypnosis and record the things

865
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 3: he's talking about, and before he gets into talking about

866
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 3: the things that they try to actualize, there are moments

867
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: where he kind of regresses into childhood desires, and he

868
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 3: keeps talking about a big red ball. So there's this

869
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 3: establishment of a theme that becoming free to actually seek

870
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 3: one's true desires is in a way a kind of

871
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 3: regression into more and more immature objects of desire. But

872
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 3: they find through all this process that Arthur actually always

873
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 3: had an interest in painting. We find out later that

874
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 3: he sort of had a watercolor hobby, you know, he

875
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 3: would do little paintings, but he never got to really

876
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 3: pursue this because, of course, you know, he's trying to

877
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 3: have a serious career as a banker. So they set

878
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 3: him up as a professional painter with a house on

879
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 3: the West coast, and they send him off to settle

880
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 3: into his new life where he has like a butler

881
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: or a valet. I think the guy's name is John,

882
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: Is that right?

883
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 2: This is John the Silver Fox.

884
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 3: Yes, the butler who is provided by the company, who

885
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 3: attends to all of his needs. He's got this nice,

886
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: swanky house, he lives on the beach. He has this exciting,

887
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 3: glamorous life where he can do whatever he wants, and

888
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 3: he has all these friends, and he has this exciting

889
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 3: career with actual artistic fulfillment. Now he gets to be

890
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 3: the painter that he thinks he really should have been.

891
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 3: Also meets an exciting woman, a woman named Nora Marcus

892
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: played by salome A Gens, and she's like a free

893
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: spirit who also left her previous life behind. Of course,

894
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: he can't admit that he did this. And they meet

895
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 3: and get to know one another, and they bond, and

896
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 3: eventually there's a scene where they attend like a literal

897
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 3: bacchan al together a bunch of hippies get naked and

898
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 3: they're they're like chugging wine and playing musical instruments and

899
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: stomping on grapes and a big.

900
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 2: Vat Yeah, some obvious jazz cigarettes being smoked at this event.

901
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: I can come back to one second to one second

902
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: for the whole idea of them setting him up as

903
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: an artist. There was one of the mini scenes where

904
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: the company men are talking him through what's going to happen.

905
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: There was one scene in particular I thought it was

906
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: really good because he's he's they're showing him the paintings

907
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: that they have provided that he They're setting him up

908
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: with his portfolio of his previous work and talking about

909
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: you know, and then you'll you'll change up your style

910
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 2: a bit and you'll do something different, and they he

911
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: has some hesitation about this, you know, because it's like,

912
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: I really I don't have that level of ability, and

913
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 2: they're like, it doesn't matter because you will be established.

914
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: And I thought that was that was very chilling and

915
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: kind of kind of cutting, and one of the many

916
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 2: moments in the film that you know isn't about like,

917
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 2: you know, high levels of anxiety or fear, but it's

918
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: just very solid.

919
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: I totally agree, and in fact, I think we see

920
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 3: it with like the Wild, the bacchanalia, the party lifestyle,

921
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 3: and with his supposedly fulfilling artistic career. In both of

922
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 3: these cases we sense that despite him quote getting what

923
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 3: he wants, something is very wrong and very empty with

924
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 3: this life. There's a scene where he paints, and that

925
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 3: the scene is just painful because, as you said earlier,

926
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 3: like there so they establish his reputation as an artist

927
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 3: by buying paintings done by someone else, faking them as his,

928
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 3: passing them off as his, and now he gets to paint.

929
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 3: But when he goes to paint, it's it's obvious he's

930
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 3: not happy doing it, like he may have been happy

931
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 3: in his previous life doing his little amateur watercolors. But

932
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: now that he is supposed to be a serious painter

933
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 3: and he realizes he's not like satisfied with the paintings

934
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 3: that he can produce with his own hand. Something is

935
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 3: very like gnawing at him about this.

936
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's it's been taken out of like

937
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 2: the organic pattern of his life and now have presented

938
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: in this unnatural state. And therefore it's not fulfilling because

939
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 2: the things that made it fulfilling and and made it desirable,

940
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 2: all of those conditions have been removed.

941
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 3: He may have not been able to be a painter professionally,

942
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 3: but in his other life when he was painting, at

943
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: least that was an honest pursuit and now it's all

944
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 3: a fraud. Yeah, So that that emptiness comes through in

945
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 3: the painting scene. But there are also the scenes where

946
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 3: he like he has these parties where he you know,

947
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: is drinking and doing drugs and you know, having this

948
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 3: excise lifestyle. But then he gets drunk and he blabs

949
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 3: about his previous life.

950
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 2: Oh boy, does he get drunk. This is such a

951
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 2: like these are such cringey scenes, like I'm tempted to

952
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 2: compare them to like something you would see on I

953
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 2: think you should leave, Yes, yeah, but without the comedy,

954
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: you know, just like that level of windful. It is

955
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 2: painful to watch. I mean, he's it's beyond like oh

956
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 2: he's a funny drunk, or and he's just like a

957
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 2: he gets sloppy drunk where you characters are trying to

958
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 2: say you shouldn't drink anymore or you should leave, and

959
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: he keeps going.

960
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 3: And there is a scene where at one point he

961
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 3: gets drunk and he starts blabbing about his previous life

962
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 3: and some people from the party have to grab him

963
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 3: and take him into his bedroom and explain to him,

964
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 3: you need to keep your mouth shut, because it turns

965
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 3: out all of his new friends they're not necessarily like

966
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 3: organic friends. Most of these people at the party, maybe

967
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 3: not all of them, are also people being second lives.

968
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 3: They're also born yes, they're also reborns. And they're like,

969
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 3: you're gonna spoil this for all of us if, like

970
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 3: the company gets exposed, if we get found out too,

971
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 3: you got to shut up. And you got to think

972
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 3: that that also sort of cheapens it for him, right

973
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 3: that like all of his so called friends are also frauds.

974
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

975
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 3: So this leads to a break where he ends up

976
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 3: going back to visit his wife. As Rock Hudson. He

977
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 3: doesn't say like, hey, you know, I'm your husband, remember me.

978
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 3: She is still going on under the impression that her

979
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 3: husband died in a fire in a hotel room, which

980
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 3: is what the company staged for him and Rock Hudson.

981
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: He pretends to be a friend of her late husband's

982
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: and so he goes to visit the house and speaks

983
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 3: to her. I think he's like, hey, you know, I

984
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 3: maybe wanted I'm a painter and I wanted to paint

985
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 3: a portrait of your husband because he was a friend

986
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 3: of mine. He also asks about the watercolors. He's like,

987
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 3: you know your your husband's water colors? Do you still

988
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 3: have them? And it's interesting there's an unresolved thing from

989
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 3: this conversation. I wonder what you made of this where

990
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 3: she's like, oh, the watercolors. Yeah, and he's like, did

991
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 3: you get rid of them? And she says not exactly.

992
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 4: Yeah.

993
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 2: I was expecting there to be some follow up like

994
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 2: maybe she donated them somewhere or they were painted over.

995
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, because in a sense, I mean his

996
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 2: life has been painted over right, But yeah, yeah, we

997
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: don't get the second beat on that really.

998
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 3: But she actually in the scene has insights about her

999
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 3: late husband, very cutting ones, the kind of thing that

1000
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 3: you know, she never would have said to him when

1001
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 3: she thought he was alive. And she says that she

1002
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 3: thinks he spent his life trying to acquire what he

1003
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 3: had been taught to want, you know, a good job,

1004
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 3: a steady income, a nice home, a family, and yet

1005
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 3: he was deeply unsatisfied. She says that it was like

1006
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 3: there was something he always wanted to say, but he

1007
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: couldn't say it. He was just holding it in. And

1008
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 3: in the background in this scene, we know that now

1009
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 3: he's gotten all of the things that he yearned for

1010
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 3: when he was unsatisfied with his previous life, the life

1011
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 3: he had when he pursued what he had been taught

1012
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 3: to want. So there's the second order thing, the things

1013
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 3: he thinks he really wanted, his genuine wants good looks, glamour,

1014
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 3: artistic expression, excitement, sex, drugs, bachanalia. And yet we can

1015
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 3: tell that he is not at all happy by acquiring

1016
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 3: these things either. There is a deep hollowness and fraudulence

1017
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 3: and anxiety at the core of his new existence. So

1018
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 3: his wife sends him away with a memento of her

1019
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 3: late husband. It's his tennis trophy, which is is a

1020
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 3: callback to a scene earlier where when his friend Charlie

1021
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 3: called him on the phone and said, hey, you know

1022
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 3: this is really me. You can know because look on

1023
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 3: the underside of our tennis trophy from the doubles tournament.

1024
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 3: We carved this into the bottom. I think it's like,

1025
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 3: you know, Fidelis Eternia or something. And so when Antiochus

1026
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 3: Wilson leaves the house, he is picked up by John,

1027
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,439
Speaker 3: the valet from the company, in a car and he says,

1028
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,919
Speaker 3: I want to go back, and John says, of course, sir.

1029
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 3: He says, no, no, no, I don't mean to California.

1030
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 3: I want to go back to the company. I want

1031
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 3: to start again again. Is it possible, Antikus Wilson can die,

1032
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 3: can't he? And John says, I think that can be arranged, sir.

1033
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 3: So they go back to the company and here Rock

1034
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 3: Hudson meets with his caseworker and they explained to him, yeah,

1035
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 3: we can set you up with a new life once again.

1036
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 3: You Sometimes this happens. People are not satisfied with their

1037
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 3: second life. They need another. But before we do that,

1038
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 3: we do need you to do something for us. We

1039
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 3: would ask you to sponsor someone else for our programs.

1040
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 3: Someone you know obviously, you know you must know tons

1041
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 3: of people who would be good candidates. We just need

1042
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 3: you to give us a name, somebody we can get

1043
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 3: in touch with, and we might need you to stay

1044
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 3: on hand to help them, maybe make some phone calls

1045
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: to them to make sure that the you know, that

1046
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 3: they end up in our care. And this makes sense

1047
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 3: because they can't add what they do is illegal. They

1048
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 3: can't advertise on the news in the newspaper. They have

1049
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 3: to operate on a personal referral basis. And here it

1050
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 3: becomes clear there's a payoff of a waiting room that

1051
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 3: Arthur Hamilton went into earlier in the movie. That's full

1052
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: of men just sitting around, playing cards, reading books, hanging out,

1053
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 3: just seemingly waiting, you know, wiling away the hours. Here

1054
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 3: we meet Murray Hamilton and it turns out this is uh,

1055
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: this is Arthur Hamilton's old friend Charlie, the guy from school,

1056
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 3: except of course he looks nothing like him. He has

1057
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 3: had a second, second life. He is a reborn by

1058
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 3: this company, but it turned out he also needed another chance.

1059
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 3: He also needed to start over again, but he couldn't

1060
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 3: do that until he fulfilled his duty for referring Arthur

1061
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 3: Hamilton here, and they'd had him on hand so he

1062
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 3: could continue making phone calls to him and helping him

1063
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 3: get settled in. Yeah.

1064
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a great vibe with the day room because

1065
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 2: we saw the day room earlier and we saw everyone

1066
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 2: it looked like more like they were working or studying,

1067
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 2: And now we realize they're just passing the time. And

1068
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 2: we also see that they're being given little cups of

1069
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: medication to help them pass the time, and that it's

1070
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 2: this kind of limbo between lives with all of them

1071
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 2: clear they are waiting for their next chance to get

1072
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 2: their third life, or perhaps their fourth or fifth, who knows.

1073
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't know how many times. So but now

1074
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 3: finally the mayor from Jaws is going to get another shot.

1075
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 3: Whatever he blew the last for some reason, it is

1076
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 3: not what he wanted, so he's going to get another one.

1077
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 3: But now this is where, this is where Rock Hudson

1078
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 3: is stuck. And so they say, okay, that's fine, we

1079
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 3: can give you another one, but we do need you

1080
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 3: to refer somebody first, and the problem is he refuses.

1081
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 3: He's like, I can't think of anybody to refer. I'm sorry,

1082
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 3: and he's really hung up on he's got to have

1083
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 3: another chance at a new life because he he screwed

1084
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 3: up the first one. You know, he just wanted what

1085
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 3: people taught him to want. The second time, he wanted

1086
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 3: something else, but he didn't do it right. Something wasn't

1087
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 3: right about it. But the third time, then he'll get it.

1088
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 3: Then he'll really fulfill his desires.

1089
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, he expresses that he this on his second life.

1090
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 2: He also didn't have input in it like the first life. Yeah,

1091
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 2: he didn't have input into what he should want. And

1092
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: the second time around, like what did they do? They

1093
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 2: kind of drug some things out of him during hypnosis,

1094
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: constructed something for him, and then put him into that slot.

1095
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 2: And so he kind of he felt ultimately trapped and

1096
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 2: in an artificial place once more, and he thinks, well,

1097
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: this next time, I want lots of input into it.

1098
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 2: I have ideas. Let's work together so that this can work.

1099
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 3: But they keep asking him, you know, we got to

1100
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 3: get a referral. You got to give us somebody, and

1101
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 3: he doesn't. He's just like, I can't think of anybody.

1102
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 3: So then we are finally let after he refuses multiple times,

1103
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 3: he's led to another meeting with the old man played

1104
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 3: by Will Gear, who he spoke to earlier the first

1105
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 3: time he was in the building belonging to the company.

1106
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 3: Will Gear is very good in this role because he's

1107
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 3: very folksy, and he's very soft spoken, and he's just

1108
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 3: like a sweet, sweet old man who talks about his

1109
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 3: dream of giving people what they really want. He knows

1110
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 3: that so many people live lives of kind of quiet

1111
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 3: misery that they just can't really commit to living the

1112
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 3: lives they know they should be living, and he wanted

1113
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 3: to create the opportunity for people to have that chance.

1114
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 3: But then he also gets a real He's like, you know,

1115
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 3: so that is the ideal under which I started the company.

1116
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 3: But the fact is, you know, now we have a

1117
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 3: lot of employees and we got to make payroll, and

1118
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 3: we have shareholders, and we've got to meet our obligations

1119
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 3: to shareholders. So if we don't have an ongoing you know,

1120
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 3: basis of new referrals coming in, we really can't keep

1121
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: doing what we're doing. In order to make the dream work,

1122
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 3: we got we gotta have money coming in, so you've

1123
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 3: got to refer somebody.

1124
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the dream again is basically as he puts

1125
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: it is, is to end human suffering, like he has this,

1126
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 2: and I think that's one of the great things about

1127
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 2: the Old Man particularly, But the company as a whole,

1128
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 2: while there's almost everything about it is sinister and at

1129
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 2: times very cold, and very also very you know, corporate

1130
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: and so forth, it is presented as if, like at

1131
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 2: in its roots anyway, it is trying to help people.

1132
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 3: Will Gearrett. Yeah, he at least thinks he is trying

1133
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 3: to help people. But then, of course, you know, once

1134
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 3: you start, once you start a business, it kind of

1135
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 3: has a has hungers of its own, like you got

1136
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 3: to you got to keep the lights on. So they

1137
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 3: need the referrals, and he doesn't give them the referrals.

1138
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 3: So they're like, okay, well that's all right. And then

1139
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 3: this leads up to the ending, the the shocking, horrifying

1140
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 3: ending where they strap rock HUDs into a gurney. He

1141
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 3: thinks he's being taken off to his next plastic surgery

1142
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 3: to get a whole new face, a whole new body,

1143
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 3: a whole new identity again, and it turns out no,

1144
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 3: they are taking him off to become one of the

1145
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 3: cadavers that will be used to fake the death of

1146
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 3: a new applicant.

1147
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh god, it's there's there. It really builds up

1148
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: to because at first he's like, where we go, We're

1149
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 2: going to my my surgery. It's too soon because you know,

1150
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 2: we didn't talk through all the details. You know, I

1151
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: really I have ideas, you guys have ideas, you know,

1152
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 2: I want to make sure we're doing it right this time.

1153
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 2: And they're reassuring him. But then is there going It's

1154
01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 2: fabulously shot, this strange hallway that they're going down. I

1155
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 2: can only imagine that some of the gurney scenes in

1156
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: Jacob's Ladder that would come many many many years later,

1157
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 2: or perhaps referring back to this sequence, because you know,

1158
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 2: at first he's you know, he's just expressing his concerns

1159
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 2: over it, and then it becomes clear that this priest

1160
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 2: perhaps that is speaking to him, is basically administering last rites.

1161
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 3: Yes, it is hard for me to communicate how chilling.

1162
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 3: The last few minutes of this movie are one of

1163
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 3: the most shocking, unsettling things i've ever seen in film.

1164
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because when he begins to realize what's really happening,

1165
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 2: he begins to struggle. They jump, they like strap his

1166
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 2: mouth closed, and he continues to fight and scream horribly

1167
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 2: for what feels like fifteen minutes or so. It's it's

1168
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 2: a lot as they drag him off to the death room.

1169
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 2: And I kept thinking, well, they're gonna stop out the way,

1170
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 2: We're going to fade away or cut away as they

1171
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 2: roll them into that room, and they don't. We go

1172
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 2: into the death room with him, and there is the

1173
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 2: doctor from earlier, his plastic surgeon, and he explains, you know, like, yeah,

1174
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 2: you were my best work. I really nailed it.

1175
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 3: I made a rock Hudson out of you.

1176
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: I made Rock Hudson out of you. And I hate

1177
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 2: to see this work, you know, go down the drain

1178
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 2: and then we go. We follow the scene right through

1179
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 2: like the cranial drilling of our main character as they

1180
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 2: drill the life out of him, and we get like

1181
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 2: the final sort of like death desire hallucination, and it

1182
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 2: is a scene what of presumably either him and his

1183
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 2: daughter on the beach with a red ball, or perhaps

1184
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 2: it is some other scene maybe you could interpret it

1185
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 2: as him and the parental unit on the beach with

1186
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 2: a red ball, like you know, it's it's I guess

1187
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 2: it's abstract like that, but like this, I guess was

1188
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 2: the true desire. You know, this was you know, deep

1189
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 2: down in him, like this is the most honest part,

1190
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 2: the purest part of his life, and it's the last

1191
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 2: thing we see. You know.

1192
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 3: It made me think about how so once I saw

1193
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 3: the ending, I was like, oh, Okay, now I think

1194
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 3: I understand because the ending of the movie feels so bad.

1195
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 3: I understand why some people hated this movie and thought

1196
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 3: it was like cold and awful. I think it's actually

1197
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 3: quite brilliant. But I think the film and I'm not

1198
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 3: at all saying it should have done this. I'm just

1199
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 3: saying imagining a different movie that could have been. I

1200
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 3: think the ending would have felt very different if there

1201
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 3: was some character in it somewhere who got it, who

1202
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:37,439
Speaker 3: figured out the I don't know what the correct desire is,

1203
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 3: the desire that that one can have in order to

1204
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 3: find true happiness, And the movie does not give an

1205
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 3: answer on that. It doesn't. It just show. It shows

1206
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 3: you lots of failures of wisdom and failures to understand

1207
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 3: ourselves and the pitfalls of desire and the hollowness of desire.

1208
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 3: But it never shows you the right way. It never

1209
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 3: provides the solution. So so you you know, you're not

1210
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 3: given like that sort of ladder out of the pit

1211
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 3: of despair.

1212
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no there's no Buddha in this film. And

1213
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 2: I thought for a little bit they were setting our

1214
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 2: main character up to be a kind of Buddha, that

1215
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 2: he would realize that essentially, in the day Room, you

1216
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 2: have these characters that are going in and out of incarnations,

1217
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 2: and it's very much like the Buddhist Wheel of Semsara

1218
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 2: in the realization that like everything is just a cycle

1219
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 2: of life and death and rebirth, and that the only

1220
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 2: way to find true liberation is to remove yourself from

1221
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 2: that cycle. But there is no such revelation in this

1222
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 2: film because ultimately he's like, give me another shot. I

1223
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 2: think the next shot is it. I think the next

1224
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 2: shot will be better, and he just commits to the

1225
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 2: wheel and that is undoing.

1226
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 3: Well in a way, I think this film is extremely

1227
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 3: compatible with Buddhist ideals, Like I think that is sort

1228
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 3: of the wisdom of the movie. But there's no character

1229
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 3: who embodies that realization. You only see the characters who

1230
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 3: are who fail and just like you know, are are

1231
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 3: slavering after their their next desire.

1232
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they're all all hungry ghosts.

1233
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: So the ending is bleak, dark, shocking. It does not

1234
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 3: feel good at all, but I think it is quite powerful,

1235
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 3: and I want to make clear again, I don't I

1236
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 3: don't think I would change it. I don't think I

1237
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 3: would prefer the film with the character who does get

1238
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 3: it or does embody sort of the wisdom of the

1239
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 3: movie's message.

1240
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think it's it's perfect as is.

1241
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 2: I like the direction they ended up going in. I'm

1242
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 2: I didn't even look into it. I'm assuming this is

1243
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 2: the basic direction of the novel as well, but perhaps

1244
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 2: it goes in a different direction. I'm also I'm also

1245
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 2: a little shocked that no one has remade this film

1246
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:54,679
Speaker 2: or or certainly maybe not as a as a motion picture.

1247
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 2: But it seems like the kind of thing that someone

1248
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 2: could pick up for some sort of television series, you know,

1249
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,560
Speaker 2: especially nowadays thinking of the success of things like Severance

1250
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 2: and so forth. There's a lot you could do with seconds.

1251
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, as we often say with

1252
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 2: films that really nail something, I don't really want to

1253
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 2: see someone else coming and perhaps screw it up. This

1254
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 2: this film doesn't need to be reborn. As I mentioned

1255
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 2: the other day, off off, my one caveat would be

1256
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 2: this would have made a great Treehouse of Horror episode

1257
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 2: if the Simpsons had done a send up of this

1258
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 2: with Homer Simpson or I don't know, there are various

1259
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 2: other Simpsons characters that might have been ideal for this treatment,

1260
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 2: but I can imagine at least the old days of

1261
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 2: the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror, they could they could have

1262
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:43,839
Speaker 2: done this up really nicely.

1263
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 3: First life, you're Ned Flanders, Second life, you're Troy McClure.

1264
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 3: Third well, third life, you know, you refer Homer and

1265
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 3: you get to go be somebody else, you get to

1266
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 3: be Auto.

1267
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 2: Finally, yeah, yeah, all right, Well that is seconds from

1268
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six. Uh yeah, terrific picture. Not for the

1269
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 2: Week of Heart, not for someone expecting just kind of

1270
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 2: a I don't know, an easygoing psychological horror film.

1271
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 4: This one.

1272
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 2: This one has a lot going on in it, so

1273
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 2: obviously we'd love to hear anyone's thoughts out there about

1274
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 2: the film. You know what, what's your interpretation of its message?

1275
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 2: What do you think about some of the choices here

1276
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 2: and the performance and the cinematography and so forth. Right

1277
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,599
Speaker 2: in We'd love to hear from you, we discuss listener

1278
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 2: mail from everything we do here in the Stuff to

1279
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 2: Blowing Mind podcast feed on our Monday listener mail episodes.

1280
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 2: Our core science episodes air on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On

1281
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 2: Wednesdays we do a short form monster fact or artifact episode,

1282
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,680
Speaker 2: and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns even

1283
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 2: though it's a pretty serious movie, and many respects for

1284
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 2: Weird House cinema. And if you want to see a

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Speaker 2: full list of the movies we've covered over the over

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Speaker 2: the years here, you can go to letterbox dot com.

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Speaker 2: That's l E T T E r b o A

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Speaker 2: dot com. We have an account there. Our username is

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Speaker 2: weird House and you'll find a list of everything we've covered.

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Speaker 2: And that website allows you to do a lot of

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Speaker 2: really cool things too, like organized by decades and years

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Speaker 2: and genres, So check it out. It's a neat little tool.

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Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer, Jjposway. If you

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Speaker 3: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

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Speaker 3: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic

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Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello. You can

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Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.