1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: With them again, thank you so much for joining us. 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: We started inflation. Then we talk a little bit also 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: about you know, a business and actually what drives you, 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: because you're such an icon for a lot of females 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: out there in the workforce. When you look at inflation, 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: when you look at monetary policy, what's changed your mind 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: on how quickly we get a cut from the ECB. 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: You know, when I look at a year ago in 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: doubles and when I compare that with where we are today, 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: I see a slope downward, but certainly not a slope 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: which is at target where we want it. 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: So that's what we have achieved. 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: I think in a little over a year, bring inflation 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: back from where it was in October twenty two at 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: ten point two percent down to a two point nine 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: percent month and month December, and certainly with the prospect 17 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: of keeping it down and further down because our target 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: is two percent and we are you know, I would 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: have said a year ago that we are determined we 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: want to get it to two percent. I would say 21 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: to you now that we are confident that we will 22 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: get it to that target two percent medium turn. 23 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: Are markets too optimistic on the industry? 24 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not going to comment on markets. 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 2: Markets do their job, they have their numbers, they have 26 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 2: their objectives. What we do at the CB, and what 27 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: I think most central banks would do is work as 28 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: hard as we can collecting data using artificial intelligence by 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: the way, for that, analyzing data, confronting viewpoints, checking models 30 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: against empirical data, doing scenario analysis, and being as as 31 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: comprehensive as we can to anticipate what's coming on. And 32 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 2: it's it's hard because what many people don't understand is 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: that monetary policy works with a lag. So whatever we do, 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: you know, is going to have an impact in a 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: few months and sometimes a year or two, and we 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: have to take that in account to decide what we do, 37 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: how long we hold, and what decision we make in 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: due course. 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: When you say that you gather data also with AI? 40 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 3: Does it? 41 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: Does AI also analyze? Because again you're looking at the 42 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: current data, you're trying to forecast what your monetary policy 43 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: is doing in the future. So is it algorithms? Like, 44 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: how does that work? 45 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: We do data collection a lot, we don't. We don't 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: determine monetary policy using algorithm and artificial intelligence. And I 47 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: think that time we can check with the AI experts, 48 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 2: of course, but I don't think that that time has 49 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: come yet. 50 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: When you look at again the forecast, and I understand 51 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: you're not focused on the market. But if the markets 52 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: that are. 53 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: Not focused, we look at them, we look at what 54 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: they say. We are attentive, but everyone has their job 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: and we cannot, you know, sort of second guess what 56 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: they will think that we are thinking that they are 57 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: second guessing. I mean, it's it's a catch twenty two job, right, 58 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: But if. 59 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: The market is too optimistic about cuts, does it actually. 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: Hurt and not help the fight against inflation by doing that? 61 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you that, So it makes 62 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: you your job harder if if they're actually mispricing what 63 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: you're trying to tell them. 64 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: It is not helping our fight against inflation. If if 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: the anticipation is such that you know, they are way 66 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: too high compared with what's likely to happen, is. 67 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: It too early to cry victory against inflation? 68 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 3: How do you see it behaving? 69 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: We are on the on the right path, We are 70 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: directionally towards the two percent, But unless and until we 71 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: are confident that it is sustainably at two percent medium term, 72 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: and we have the data to you know, support it. 73 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: I'm not going to shout victory, no, not yet. 74 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: How much is the inflation reduction thanks to your monetary policy, 75 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: and how much of it is luck? 76 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't call it luck. 77 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: I think two factors have played a critical role, and 78 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: it's the decline in energy prices that we have observed. 79 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: You know, energy prices pushed prices up massively, and energy 80 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: prices decline, of course has a similar impact. 81 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: So that's number one. 82 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: Number two, the bottlenecks that we have observed as a 83 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: result of COVID in particular, and which lasted quite a 84 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: lot of quite a long time, has gradually faded out, 85 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 2: and that also had an impact, you know, more supply, 86 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 2: more availability of goods. 87 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 3: Second factor. 88 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 2: The third factor is monetary policy, and it's undoubtedly been effective, 89 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: if only to anchor inflation expectations, which we know is 90 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: really important. So it has had an impact on inflation itself, 91 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: but it has definitely had had an impact on inflation expectations, 92 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: which by all accounts and all surveys and all measurements 93 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: have come down and are really now broadly onto that 94 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: two percent medium term target that we have. I know, 95 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 2: it's obsessive two percent medium term targets. 96 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what it is. 97 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, but at least it should guide the markets, right, 98 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's good to be obsessed. 99 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: Well, if they don't know that that's what we are 100 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: aiming for, then they need to have the head examined, 101 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: that's for sure. 102 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: And then again talk to me a little bit about 103 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: wage bargaining. So again, yeah, it's not going to be 104 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: on the upside. And could that change, you know, the 105 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: timing of a possible work. 106 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 2: Well, I'm jad you mentioned wages in general, wage bargaining 107 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: in particular, and I'll go to that, but I want 108 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: to tell you that there are three things that I'm 109 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: watching carefully. Wage bargainings, profit margins, energy prices, and hopefully 110 00:05:55,080 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: not but the coming back of supply. Those are four 111 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 2: key components which could have a serious impact on the 112 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: work that we're doing. 113 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: Against inflation. 114 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: But back to your wage question, wages have gone up, 115 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: but relatively slowly. So in prices have gone up earlier 116 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: and faster than wages, so we are now facing a 117 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 2: moment of not only some degree of alignment. 118 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: But catch up as well. 119 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 2: So employees have lost purchasing power in the course of 120 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,559 Speaker 2: twenty one twenty two, and there is now a catch 121 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: up effect in the bargaining. 122 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 3: Discussions that are taking place. 123 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 2: We will know a lot more, probably in April May, 124 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: because the numbers the bargaining agreements are being negotiated in 125 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 2: the first quarter of every year and the results come 126 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: in after your remans have been closed. So that gives 127 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: us indication that we can you know, corroborate and verify 128 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: in the in the late spring, I would say of 129 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: twenty four that will be a strong indication our wages 130 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: slowly catching up and that catch up process will take 131 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: place over the course of two or three years possibly, 132 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: Or is there a very strong catch up coupled with 133 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: an alignment with inflation, which would give me concern because 134 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 2: while we're not seeing today's second round effect, that could 135 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: be the result of this this sort of twofold process. 136 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: And you think second round effects, and this is one 137 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,239 Speaker 1: of the big debates within the governing councils, of course, 138 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: do you think second round effects are more likely than not? 139 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: Or is it really just wait and see. 140 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: It's wait and see. 141 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: Really, you know, we are trying to suss out every 142 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: element that moves, if you will, so there is this 143 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: indeed index which indicates how many new job offers are available, 144 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: and it's it's again, it's artificial intelligence applied to it 145 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: to see, you know, if there is if it's up, 146 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: if it's stable, if it's down, it's declining a bit. 147 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: So this issue of multiple vacancies for few unemployed that 148 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: is fading out. 149 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: When we look. 150 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: At compensation per employee, we're. 151 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: Looking at backward data, let's face it. 152 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: So when I talk about the five point two percent 153 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: increase in per employee compensation, I'm talking about about twenty 154 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: twenty three. What will happen in twenty four is going 155 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: to be the really important data. But we are seeing 156 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: little signs of at least stabilization. But I wouldn't I 157 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: wouldn't you know, I would refrain from making any prediction 158 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: as to whether it is the wages are going to 159 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: continue to slightly you know, the increase will stabilized and 160 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: decline a bit or not. 161 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: I want to see the data. 162 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: Are you confident there will be a cut this year 163 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: in interest rates? 164 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 3: Confident? 165 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: I'm confident that short off another major shock, we have 166 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: reach reached a peak. Okay, now we have to stay 167 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 2: restrictive for as long as necessary to make sure that 168 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: we get to that state where we are all saying, okay, 169 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: confident that it is at two percent medium term. I 170 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: know some people argue that maybe we are overshooting, maybe 171 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: we're taking risks. I think the risk would be worse 172 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 2: if we went too fast and had to come back 173 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 2: to more tightening, because we would have wasted all the 174 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: efforts that everybody has put in the last fifteen months. 175 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: But this would be again economically or also the trust 176 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: in central banks. If you get this wrong, does it 177 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: hurt the credibility. 178 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 3: Credibility matters. 179 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 2: Let's face it, when we say we will get to 180 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: two percent medium term and this will happen in the 181 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: medium term as we define it. If people believe in that, 182 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: then they should because we will do it. It matters. It 183 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 2: is a component in the in the sort of chemistry 184 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: that determines inflation going forward. 185 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: And again, so the time is quite fluid, but there 186 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: seems to be a majority on the governing Council that 187 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: expected probably by the summer, if not in the summer. 188 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 2: You know, you've talked to some of them, They have 189 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 2: spoken recently, and each of them has their view, which 190 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: is which I respect completely. We generally coalesce towards the 191 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 2: decisions that we make on the basis of data. Some 192 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 2: of them have their local domestic data, They have their 193 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: respective inflation rates, which are different from one country to 194 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: the other in the Euro Area, where if you look 195 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: at Portugal, if you look at Germany, it's going to 196 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: be different, obviously, but it's and it's their job to say, well, 197 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: it's likely. That I would say it's likely too, but 198 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: I have to be reserved because we are also saying 199 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: that we are data dependent and that there is still 200 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 2: a level of uncertainty and some indicators that are not 201 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: anchored at the level where we would. 202 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: Like to see them get that. 203 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: Services, for instance, is still cruising at four percent inflation. 204 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: Services is the most sort of labor intensive sector of 205 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: the economy, and it's one that we have to bring 206 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 2: down towards two percent. The U s election, Yeah, let 207 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: me have some coffee. 208 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: How worried are you about the US selection. 209 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: It's for the American people to decide what they want 210 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: with their politics, with their government, with their future. But 211 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: obviously we are all concerned about it because the United 212 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: States is the largest economy, the largest defense country in 213 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: the world, and has been a beacon of democracy with 214 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 2: all its upside and downside. But this is what they 215 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: should be considering, and of course we cannot interfere with 216 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 2: their choice. It's their choice and that's the beauty of democracy. 217 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: But we have to be extremely attentive and anticipate, just 218 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,359 Speaker 2: as we do with inflation. You know, we do scenarios, 219 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: what what if? 220 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: What if? Then what do we do? Because that's the 221 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 3: real question. 222 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: And you know where I sit now in Frankfurt, head 223 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: of the ECB. I think that we have to be 224 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 2: strong as Europeans and not assume that we can rely 225 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 2: on whoever our friends are around the world, because these 226 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 2: things change over the course of time, as we have seen. 227 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: So what if Donald Trump gets into the White House, 228 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: what are some of the policies that Europe could be 229 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: put in place to not be cut also between China 230 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: and the US with Donald Trump and the White House. 231 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 2: Well, for one, it has to be strong of its 232 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: own and if I look at my own shop, because 233 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: it matters to monetary policy transmission, I think that and 234 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: you will hear that from others. We have to accelerate 235 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 2: capital market union. We need financing in Europe. There is 236 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 2: a lot of saving in Europe, and we have to 237 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: make sure that those savings actually stay here to finance 238 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 2: what needs to be financed, which is predominantly the climate transition, 239 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 2: which is digitalization, which is enough reindustrialization conducted with a 240 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 2: targeted approach, so that we can on the key in 241 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: the key areas be self sufficient. 242 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: Are there policies that you would put in place now 243 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: for Europe to I guess counter the US exceptionalism, which 244 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: you know could be questioned going forward. 245 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: I think I would accelerate many of the initiatives that 246 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: have been taken, and I would encourage European leaders to 247 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: put aside a little bit they respective idiosyncraty idiosyncratic differences 248 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: to be more together because you know, it's a question 249 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: of of size and scale and Europe is a very 250 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: large market, has a very sizable population, has capacity to innovate, 251 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: has financing. It has to you know, be a little 252 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: bit more cohesive together and forward looking. 253 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: Are you optimistic about twenty twenty four as a whole? 254 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three was better than expected economically, Now we 255 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: have conflicts, we have much more tensions. Climate change still 256 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: one of the top worries as well. 257 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: You know, with all due respect and thoughts and empathy 258 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: and sympathy for the people who are suffering at the moment, 259 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 2: and there are plenty. It's not just Ukraine and Gazes, 260 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: It's in many other corners of the world as well. 261 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: But I'm constantly surprised by the level of resilience and the. 262 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 3: Capacity to actually bounce back from those traumas. 263 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: So I have faith in the human beings and their 264 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: capacity to respond to adversity. 265 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 3: We've seen it, you know. 266 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: Look earlier in the pandemics, we thought that the world 267 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: was coming to an end, right it hasn't. Nobody thought 268 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 2: that vaccines would come up in such a short period of. 269 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 3: Time, And. 270 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: Every time we have to constantly reser this spirit of resilience. 271 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: But is there something that unsettles We have a lot 272 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: of elections, so not only the US election, I think 273 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: fifty percent of worlds including vote. 274 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 275 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's impossible to predict. But what's your 276 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: gut telling you. 277 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: It's impossible to predict will stop? 278 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: Are you hopeful that that? 279 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 3: I'm always hopeful. Come on, we have to be, we 280 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: have to be. Is there we have to speak up? 281 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 3: Is there a lack of trust? So Davos. 282 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's all about rebuilding trust. Where's the most 283 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: lack of trust DC? Is it between citizens and the 284 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: people at the top? Is it between countries? 285 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 3: Is it? 286 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: You know, if you if you look at surveys, if 287 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 2: you look at those who are trying to understand the 288 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 2: soul searching and brainstorm about it, it seems clear that 289 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: the family is the cell level where there is the 290 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: more trust. 291 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: So that should tell us something about proximity. 292 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: And I think that whenever in policies we can emphasize 293 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: proximity and the capacity of people to actually have control 294 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: of their destiny and be able to discuss it, I 295 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: think we should. We should select that route rather than 296 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: the sort of you know, top down approach. 297 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 3: Do as you're told. 298 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: You were one of the first female, of course, top 299 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: lawyers in a US law firm. Then you ran the IMF, 300 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: You were a French economy minister, now you run the ECB. 301 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: What do you think makes your success? What kind of 302 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: you know advice? I don't know whether it's resilience or 303 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: something else that you could wisdom that you can impart 304 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: with people. 305 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: Watching two young people, I would say, first of all, 306 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: have big dreams, embrace them, but most importantly respect other 307 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: people and and and bind with them, work with them. 308 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 2: You know, you don't succeed on your own. You you 309 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: embrace the project, you share a vision, but then you 310 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: you encourage people all along and the more they shine 311 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: the better. 312 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: But a lot of people are afraid of that. Right 313 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: if your well, if your team shines, then then you 314 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: shine less. 315 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 3: Is this done? 316 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: But you must have encountered people. You must have encountered 317 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: people that have said that. I mean, what kind of like, 318 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: how do you deal with difficult personalities? 319 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: Very difficult personality? Yeah, horrible people the little knife out. 320 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 3: What so no time? 321 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: Really difficult ones because they're not so difficult, but difficult 322 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 2: one you can you can manage. You can bring them along, 323 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: you can you sit down with them, you talk them through, 324 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: you understand what is their perspective? 325 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 3: But the real little knife. 326 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: What do you do on a bad day? I mean, 327 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: do you ever have a bad day? Actually where you say, 328 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: because you're very optimistic and you try. You know, this 329 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: is what we hear us in the powers in the 330 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: corridors of Paris, that you try and bring people along, 331 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: that you try and kind of motivate what happens to 332 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: Mandam lay'ada. 333 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,479 Speaker 3: On a bad day, I go for a walk and 334 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 3: I think of my grand children and they give you hope. 335 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: Of course, yeah, very much so so you are you? 336 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: You sort of you draw on your inner strength, You 337 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: go back to the family circle, You think of what 338 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 2: duties you have to them, and it pulls the best 339 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: out of you. 340 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: Then, for as far as I remember, you've been a 341 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: champion of women. 342 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 3: Are you, you know. 343 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: Disappointed that we haven't done more, that women haven't gone 344 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: further in business? 345 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: Or first of all, I see more and more women 346 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 2: succeeding and making the case that of course they can 347 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: do the job. 348 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 3: Of course they can do sometimes a better job. 349 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 2: But it's it's an endless battle, and it's one that 350 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: we have to continue fighting together. 351 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 3: Men and women align, and do you see that happening? 352 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: I mean, there are a lot of initiative. 353 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: It seems that I guess the concern is that you 354 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: do have some women at the top, they are far between, 355 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: but then you don't really have I guess the next generation. 356 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 2: You know me, I'm a very strong supporter of quotas, 357 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: targets and checking you know what progress has been made. 358 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 2: It works and it has to be in place, and 359 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: it has to be supported because it's going to improve 360 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 2: the game for everybody. It's not going to put men aside, 361 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: it's not going to promote women only. 362 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 3: It's going to be good for all. Do you still 363 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 3: have that list? Yes? 364 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: So, I mean a lot of people know about the list. 365 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: But basically, if someone's looking for a you know, high 366 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: female business woman to hire or for a central bank. 367 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 3: You say, I actually have a list. 368 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 2: They said, oh, you know, I've looked. I've looked everywhere. 369 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: I couldn't find a competent woman to take the job. 370 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: And I said, you know. 371 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: What, so everyone should have a list. But then again, 372 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time today.