WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra - Frances Frei

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business

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<v Speaker 1>Week Extra. It's a weekly podcast bring you an in

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<v Speaker 1>depth interview you will not hear anywhere else. And this

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<v Speaker 1>one man, we just love talking with her. Well, this

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<v Speaker 1>is one of these times where you're listening to my

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<v Speaker 1>voice that you can't hear me like rubbing my hands

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<v Speaker 1>together because I'm so excited to bring you, guys, this interview.

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<v Speaker 1>It's with Francis Fry. She's got a new book, Unleashed,

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<v Speaker 1>The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to Empowering everyone around You. This

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<v Speaker 1>was one of these interviews that the moment she came

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<v Speaker 1>on the line, we were excited because she's a real person.

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<v Speaker 1>She's had real experiences. She told some great stories, and

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<v Speaker 1>she's been in the trenches, well trenches meaning uber and

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<v Speaker 1>we were check it out. I think that there are

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<v Speaker 1>great leaders and then there are people that are not

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<v Speaker 1>very good leaders. I think leadership can be taught. So

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<v Speaker 1>for those that for those leaders that aren't doing a

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<v Speaker 1>good job, if they have the desire to get better,

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<v Speaker 1>we can teach them. If they don't have the desire

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<v Speaker 1>to get better. I wish for them to step aside.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you teach them? Because these are these are

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<v Speaker 1>tough people who are often in positions where they are

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<v Speaker 1>and you have run into some of them very directly,

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<v Speaker 1>who are very confident and they know where they're going.

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<v Speaker 1>I just finished listening to a six part podcast on

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<v Speaker 1>we Work, and you know more about that story, uh

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<v Speaker 1>than I do. But but I do wonder how do

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<v Speaker 1>you break through to two people or there's some who

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<v Speaker 1>just can't be broken through. Well, I find that if

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<v Speaker 1>you can break through, it's usually either through emotion or logic.

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<v Speaker 1>And the lesson to be learned is that if someone

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<v Speaker 1>is if someone is like at an emotional level, no

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<v Speaker 1>amount of logic is going to penetrate. And if someone

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<v Speaker 1>is at a logical level, no amount of motion is

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<v Speaker 1>going to penetrate. So you have to see where they

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<v Speaker 1>are and then bring either the moral or the rational

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<v Speaker 1>argument to them. Um, I will tell you, in my lifetime,

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<v Speaker 1>I have met very few people that uh didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>to improve. Well, so, so okay, so take us back

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<v Speaker 1>to you are hired, You're tapped to be Uber's first

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<v Speaker 1>senior VP of a leadership and strategy, curious about the

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<v Speaker 1>conversations to get you there, and then you walk in

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<v Speaker 1>the and then you walk in the door, and then

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<v Speaker 1>what so just take us back there. Yeah. So I

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<v Speaker 1>was asked to go by a former student to go

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<v Speaker 1>and meet with the then CEO, Travis kalmick Um. And

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<v Speaker 1>my first reaction was no, because I, like everyone else,

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<v Speaker 1>had read the newspaper and said, I only like to

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<v Speaker 1>help good people win. This does not seem like a

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<v Speaker 1>good person. So no. And the student was said, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I think he's a very good person. I think he's

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<v Speaker 1>out of his depth on parts of the job. Will

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<v Speaker 1>you do me a favor and come meet with him?

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<v Speaker 1>And so I flew out to California. I was planning

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<v Speaker 1>to meet with him for an hour and I stayed

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<v Speaker 1>for three days um talking with him and realized that

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<v Speaker 1>this was a person who was last job, he had

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<v Speaker 1>led eight people, this company had gone through hyper growth.

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<v Speaker 1>It now had between ten and fifteen thousand people, so

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<v Speaker 1>he totally needed help and leadership. But you know how

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<v Speaker 1>I knew that. He said, I totally need help on leadership,

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<v Speaker 1>and then on the strategy part. You know, he's like

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<v Speaker 1>a mad genius in his mind. But it wasn't getting

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<v Speaker 1>out into the minds of everyone in the organization, and

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<v Speaker 1>so he asked me to help strategy, at least in

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<v Speaker 1>so far as we could communicate it so that everyone

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<v Speaker 1>was going off the same script. And then he said,

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<v Speaker 1>you have full license to do whatsever necessary. That was

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<v Speaker 1>my conversation with him, and then I went and met

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<v Speaker 1>with a lot of employees, bought a lot of them.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I interacted with about employees before I said yes,

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<v Speaker 1>because I only like to help good people win. And

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<v Speaker 1>if I didn't have the sense that this was overwhelmingly

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<v Speaker 1>good people, I could never have gone to the organization.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have to say it was overwhelmingly good people.

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<v Speaker 1>And you walked out of there feeling the same way.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, So you know, nine months later, the culture

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<v Speaker 1>was completely turned around. Everything that you read about in

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<v Speaker 1>the culture back in two thousand and seventeen, none of

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<v Speaker 1>that could happen today, like just literally none of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And we had it, We had it. None of it

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<v Speaker 1>could have happened within nine months. UM, And we've taught,

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<v Speaker 1>We've brought in the largest executive education program I think

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<v Speaker 1>ever into a company. UM, And I've never met such

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<v Speaker 1>willing learners I love this notion that you talked about

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<v Speaker 1>in the book, which is in in some ways turning

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<v Speaker 1>leadership on its head, or at least broadening there, widening

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<v Speaker 1>the aperture a bit, because I think we we think

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<v Speaker 1>so much about you know, I'm the leader, I'm the decider,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know it needs to be about me and

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<v Speaker 1>I need to sort of have this command and control.

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<v Speaker 1>And you make a different argument. I think, help us

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<v Speaker 1>understand your sort of rubric I guess for thinking about leadership. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I do make I think the exact opposite argument,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that so you're exactly right, no, as what

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<v Speaker 1>you were saying, Oh good, okay. I was like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>I really misunderstood what you're saying. No, no no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I was giving sorry they you couldn't see me. I

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<v Speaker 1>was nodding vigorously. So leadership is about making other people better,

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<v Speaker 1>Like leadership fundamentally is about other people. And so the

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<v Speaker 1>mistake that some people make is that they think their

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<v Speaker 1>job is to be lead really and it's like they

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<v Speaker 1>have a mirror in their office and they keep looking

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<v Speaker 1>in their mirror to see how they're doing. And you

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<v Speaker 1>should really put a window in your office, because you

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<v Speaker 1>should be spending all of your time seeing how other

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<v Speaker 1>people are doing. And a job of a leader is

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<v Speaker 1>to make others better in there as a result of

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<v Speaker 1>their presence and into their absence. And so I do

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<v Speaker 1>think that it does really turn around what leadership is

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<v Speaker 1>because it's not about the leaders. In fact, our first

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<v Speaker 1>chapter is all it's not about you. So how do

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<v Speaker 1>you do that? Like? What does that look like in practice?

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<v Speaker 1>When I walk into a meeting if the most interesting

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<v Speaker 1>person in the room to me is me, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>happiest when everyone else is looking at me. But if

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<v Speaker 1>when I walk into a room, the most important people

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<v Speaker 1>to me are everyone else in the room and my

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<v Speaker 1>helping to set them up for success, and I will

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<v Speaker 1>be looking super curiously and with all of my attention

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<v Speaker 1>of how can I make you better? Like what are

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<v Speaker 1>the obstacles in the way? How can I get you

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<v Speaker 1>to reach higher? How can I get you to develop

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<v Speaker 1>more skills to do a better job. So it's really

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's not self distracted, it's other distracted. We're just

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<v Speaker 1>like sitting with this, Jason and I are looking at

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<v Speaker 1>each other because this is pretty powerful. Um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>apply it? And I wonder how are you looking at

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<v Speaker 1>what what you're saying right now and what you've just

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<v Speaker 1>written in this book with what's going on in the

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<v Speaker 1>world and what's been going on in the world for

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<v Speaker 1>the last three months. The virus first of all, and

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<v Speaker 1>what's been kind of put front and center once again

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<v Speaker 1>those things that ail our society. We knew they were,

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<v Speaker 1>they were there, but you know, we're being confronted with it.

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<v Speaker 1>And then certainly what happened with George Floyd in Minneapolis. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I'll start with George Floyd. Uh that which is

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<v Speaker 1>you know, our country has been grappling with issues of

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<v Speaker 1>race for I don't know, close to four hundred years,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've never dealt with them. And UM, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that everyone probably because we're all in COVID together and

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<v Speaker 1>we're all breathing the same breath. Everyone witnessed, it seems

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time, the death of a man because

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<v Speaker 1>of the color of his skin, and this time it

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<v Speaker 1>has sparked collective reckoning UM and feels like at least

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<v Speaker 1>the first moment in my life where we might be

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<v Speaker 1>willing to change. UM. But what we know about change

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<v Speaker 1>is you have to do three things. If you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to change, you have to honor the past. We've never

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<v Speaker 1>done that regarding race. You have to have a clear

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<v Speaker 1>and compelling change mandate. We have that right now, and

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<v Speaker 1>you have to have a rigorous and optimistic way forward.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think great leaders will honor the past

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll have an optimistic, a rigorous and optimistic way forward.

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<v Speaker 1>And the same thing. And if that's like poignant lead

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<v Speaker 1>for George Floyd, it's also what's happened with COVID, you know. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I think you could line up great leaders, great

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<v Speaker 1>world leaders, from top to bottom and look at how

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<v Speaker 1>well their countries are responding, and it's like a one

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<v Speaker 1>to one, Like great leadership is playing out on the

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<v Speaker 1>world stage. We're all given the same conditions. It's just

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not it's about setting others up for success

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<v Speaker 1>or whether or not the leaders thinks that leadership is

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<v Speaker 1>all about them. It's like pretty straightforward. Yeah, when I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like we're seeing that at companies too, right, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean we're seeing you know, both in terms of COVID

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<v Speaker 1>and in terms of the reaction to the to the

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<v Speaker 1>murder of George Floyd. You know, the that exact am

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<v Speaker 1>thing that it's all the same circumstances and and granted

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<v Speaker 1>their little variables here and there about what type of

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<v Speaker 1>company you run. But but it seems like so much

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<v Speaker 1>of it is ultimately about and we have these conversations

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<v Speaker 1>all the time, leaders being willing to to say something

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<v Speaker 1>in many ways, and it seems so simple. But I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like that gets lost. It's like Twitter versus Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>right now. Oh, you know those are two platforms. I

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<v Speaker 1>just got on my first social media platform and that's LinkedIn.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm on neither Twitter nor I don't do well with distractions. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but tell us about that notion of communicating and and

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<v Speaker 1>the importance of leaders for saying something. Yeah, So here's

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<v Speaker 1>what I would say. I mean, if if you are

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<v Speaker 1>a person of color in the United States today, you're hurting.

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<v Speaker 1>You're hurting not just for what happened to Georgie Floyd,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's like horrific, but that you're hurting for what's

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<v Speaker 1>happened in your life, that you're cheating. You know, you're

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<v Speaker 1>you have to teach your children not to run and

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<v Speaker 1>to keep their hands in plain side. I don't have

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<v Speaker 1>to teach my children to do that because I'm white.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it's like there, it's just this aching about race.

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<v Speaker 1>And so if we look at c e o s,

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<v Speaker 1>you can watch them doing one of two things. If

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<v Speaker 1>they're a white CEO, are are they primarily worried about?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness, Now is the time like what led

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<v Speaker 1>up to what happened with George Floyd and we are

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<v Speaker 1>now going to address it. And we all stand together.

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<v Speaker 1>And here's the thing. If I'm comfortable with my race,

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<v Speaker 1>it's my job to go and fix racial inequality. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not the job of people that are destabilized by race

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<v Speaker 1>to have to fix it. It's like when people used

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<v Speaker 1>to ask women to fix gender problems. No, no, no.

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<v Speaker 1>If we're like we're the bird and we're dishouldering the

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<v Speaker 1>burden of it, don't ask us to fix it. You'll

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<v Speaker 1>fix it. I think that's exactly what we're seeing. And

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<v Speaker 1>so we're seeing amazing CEO is stepping up. Now I'm saying, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we got this. You're right. We have been waiting for

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<v Speaker 1>others to fix it. Now we're going to fix it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that feels like a pretty magnificent moment in our history.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was Francis Fry. She's Professor of Technology and

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<v Speaker 1>Operations Management at Harvard Business School, and a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>years ago she was tapped to be Uber's first senior

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<v Speaker 1>vice president of Leadership and Strategy. I loved hearing about

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<v Speaker 1>the story about how a student got her to talk

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<v Speaker 1>with Travis Kalinek of Uber. I mean, that's how she

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<v Speaker 1>got involved in the company and what she did Jason,

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<v Speaker 1>before she agreed to do the job talking to hundreds

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<v Speaker 1>of Uber's workers, she had to feel good about the

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<v Speaker 1>people who were there before willing to work with them,

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<v Speaker 1>and she made a difference. That's clear. It's a different

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<v Speaker 1>company because of what she did and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>those lessons there in her new book, it's called Unleashed.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra, be sure

0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.560
<v Speaker 1>to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio Live Monday through

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<v Speaker 1>Friday at two bm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio.

0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm Carol Masser and I'm Jays and Kelly. This is

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<v Speaker 1>Whooper