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Speaker 1: Welcome back listeners, Ron and any and the Car Doctor

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Speaker 1: our next guest. This is a little different, right, you know.

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Speaker 1: This really came about I was up on social media

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Speaker 1: the past week or so and I started to read

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Speaker 1: this post from this gentleman in fascination because it emulates

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Speaker 1: what I've been saying the past ten or fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: We're here on air for what thirty three now, but

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Speaker 1: for the longest time, that there are no machine shops left,

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Speaker 1: that we're running out of places to take engines to

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Speaker 1: rebuild them, that it's not such a common everyday practice.

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Speaker 1: Dan Curtis, the owner of azamc Restorations, is running into

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Speaker 1: this problem in his portion of the business out there

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Speaker 1: in Arizona. I guess it is Dan. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Car Doctor, sir. It's Arizona. Correct, is where your shop is?

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Speaker 2: That is correct? And yes, pleasure to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, and we appreciate you taking the time.

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Speaker 1: Post started out it's the first paragraph. Due to the

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Speaker 1: dwindling supply of quality machine shops and very poor quality

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Speaker 1: after market parts, as well as a lack of people

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Speaker 1: interested in learning the engine building a machine shop trades,

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Speaker 1: which that's a whole other conversation. I regret to inform

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Speaker 1: our many followers and current as well as past customers,

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Speaker 1: that will no longer be taking on any new engine

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Speaker 1: build orders unless it's for a car we are restoring.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you restore a car, they you know,

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Speaker 1: they say, hey, Dan, I want you to restore my

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Speaker 1: AMC vehicle American Motors, you know, a javelin or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you know, just take the car and build it.

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Speaker 1: And now and then you were also doing engines. Somebody

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Speaker 1: could bring you an engine and say, hey, just build

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Speaker 1: the engine. You're saying, hey, no more, we got to

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Speaker 1: do the whole car or nothing, because we don't have

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Speaker 1: the resources to do just engine work anymore. Tell us

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 2: So when we first started, we actually were an engine

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Speaker 2: building shop to start with. And then as time progressed,

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Speaker 2: people started asking us to help them with more and

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Speaker 2: more things. And I had a collection of AMC cars

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Speaker 2: on my own, and they would see my cars and

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Speaker 2: they would say, can you make my car, my Javelin

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Speaker 2: or AMX or Ramble Scrambler as good as yours? And

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Speaker 2: I said, sure, we can do that. So I ended

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Speaker 2: up buying a shop thinking it was going to be

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Speaker 2: both a mechanical and a body shop, and as you

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Speaker 2: probably know from being in an interest for yourself, they're

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Speaker 2: not very compatible. So I ended up buying a second

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Speaker 2: shop a couple hundred feet away, So we now have

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Speaker 2: a paint and body shop in a restoration shop. So

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Speaker 2: as time evolved, the restoration work started becoming more a

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Speaker 2: larger and larger part of our business, of course. And

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Speaker 2: so but we've been building engines in house now specifically

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Speaker 2: mostly AMC engines for over twenty years, and we're encountering

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Speaker 2: an inability to have timely machine shop work done so

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Speaker 2: that we can get engines done on a timely basis.

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Speaker 2: Imagine coming and asking us to build your engine and

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Speaker 2: I tell you I probably can't have it done for

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Speaker 2: you for two years.

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Speaker 3: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Now is that is that a you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: have the manpower, you don't have the material, you both

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Speaker 1: the floor space. You know what exactly creates that two

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Speaker 1: year backlog? It just pure demand because there's nobody else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're a specialty engine builder and we build

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Speaker 2: engines for people all over North America, even some in Mexico,

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Speaker 2: a couple over in Europe. And so we have the inventory.

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Speaker 2: We have the parts we need because we've been doing

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Speaker 2: this for a long time, but we can't find I've

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Speaker 2: been advertising now for months to have a new engine builder,

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Speaker 2: and that new engine builder challenge is significant, and I'm

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Speaker 2: unable to find anybody do that. But more importantly, I

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Speaker 2: can have stuff at a machine shop for four or

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Speaker 2: five months before I get it back. I had one

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Speaker 2: block at a machine shop for a year and I

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Speaker 2: had to hound them to get it back, and when

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Speaker 2: I got back it was ruined.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And these are not engine components and parts that are

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Speaker 1: easily replaced, correct, I mean to ruin a factory block

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Speaker 1: that was probably from a numbers matching something right.

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Speaker 2: So thankfully AMCs are date code correct, So as long

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Speaker 2: as you get a block with the same date, you

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Speaker 2: can technically be date code correct. But yeah, nobody else,

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Speaker 2: nobody makes them. You either it becomes a boat anchor

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Speaker 2: or a pay a very big paper weight, or it

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Speaker 2: goes to the scrapyard.

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Speaker 1: So you know, so as it stands right now, you

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Speaker 1: are not going to take on any separate engine work.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be the whole car or nothing. And

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Speaker 1: then how long do you foresee that if somebody brings

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Speaker 1: you a whole car and says, Dan, I want you

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Speaker 1: to do a whole car at at your azy amc

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Speaker 1: restoration shop. You know how long before you get to

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Speaker 1: the next car. You know how big of a backlog

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Speaker 1: is there to do cars?

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Speaker 2: We have roughly a two year backlog. People are sending

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Speaker 2: in sizeable deposits to get a space in our queue,

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Speaker 2: and I tell them up front that it might be

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Speaker 2: as long as two years. Sometimes depending on people's individual circumstances,

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Speaker 2: it could be six months when they send the car,

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Speaker 2: and depending on what is needed. But as you probably

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Speaker 2: know from the industry, it's a very tedious and time

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Speaker 2: consuming process to restore a car because there's no way

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Speaker 2: for you to start on it and not do anything

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Speaker 2: else until you finish it. So you're kind of juggling

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Speaker 2: two or three or four restorations at the same time.

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Speaker 2: And then we for cash flow purposes, we bring in

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Speaker 2: short term repairs so that you know, you can go

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Speaker 2: months on a restoration and not make any progress. You're

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Speaker 2: not charging the customer or anything until you make progress. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we could. It could. It could be up to a

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Speaker 2: year and a half before your car gets in, and

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Speaker 2: there could be another year year and a half before

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Speaker 2: you get it back.

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Speaker 1: So are you strictly doing AMC's American Motors Cars or

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Speaker 1: do you do other muscle cars, hot rods, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So I like to say that AMC could stand for

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Speaker 2: American Muscle Car or it stands for American Motors Cars.

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Speaker 2: So we do. We We are specialized in the AMCs

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Speaker 2: because we are probably one of the places that knows

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Speaker 2: them the best. And that's out of my own passion

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Speaker 2: because I bought a nineteen sixty at AMX when I

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Speaker 2: was eighteen years old, and within eighteen month I had

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Speaker 2: the fastest car around. So I grew to like them.

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Speaker 2: And so we have a Pontiac Firebird four hundred and

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Speaker 2: there that we built a four to sixty eight Stroker

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Speaker 2: for and upgraded to a TKX five speed. We have

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Speaker 2: a really cool nineteen seventy five Oldsmobile four four two

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Speaker 2: that we're just finishing up now. And we've done corvettes

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Speaker 2: and so we we do other cars, but we're known

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Speaker 2: for our AMC restorations.

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Speaker 1: So what's the answer. Is there an answer? Or let

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Speaker 1: me ask the question this way. Exactly where in Arizona

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Speaker 1: are you can you tell us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're just a little bit west of Phoenix.

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Speaker 2: So when people come in to see if they fly

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Speaker 2: into Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport jumping an uber and they're

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Speaker 2: at our place in twenty a twenty five minutes, all right,

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Speaker 2: is the little town called Peoria.

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Speaker 1: Are there any other machine shops in and around Peoria?

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Speaker 1: Or are you basically the machine shop?

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Speaker 2: So we're not actually a machine shop. That's the one

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Speaker 2: function that we actually use third parties for, gotcha, and so,

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Speaker 2: but that's only for things like grinding crankshafts, which is

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Speaker 2: a very dirty and cumbersome job, boring cylinder blocks, align

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Speaker 2: honing the main journals, decking the top of the block

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Speaker 2: for a good cylinder head seals. So those are the

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Speaker 2: kind of things we outsourced, but we do all the rest.

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Speaker 2: We balance and blueprint in house. Every engine. We require

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Speaker 2: if we're going to build you an engine, that we

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Speaker 2: blueprint it, and that way we give you a basically

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Speaker 2: and unconditional warranty unless it comes in and you've got

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Speaker 2: a bunch of vent valves because you overhebbed the heck

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Speaker 2: out of it and you had pistons and valves whacking

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Speaker 2: each other. So there are other places to go. But

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Speaker 2: the challenge is there's so few of them left that,

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Speaker 2: as I said earlier, you could have an engine block

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Speaker 2: somewhere for six months.

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Speaker 1: What's the you know? And I'm just trying to paint

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Speaker 1: a picture of the area, right is you know here

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Speaker 1: in North Jersey, I'll say it like this here in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. In North Jersey, if we tell somebody you

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Speaker 1: need four tires and a set of brakes, it's not

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Speaker 1: uncommon for them to say, I'll just go buy a

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Speaker 1: new car. Is is is that Peoria? Is that Arizona?

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Speaker 2: So we specialize in you know, thirty, probably forty to

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Speaker 2: sixty year old cars, and so that's a different client

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Speaker 2: tell than what you're describing. These are people who always

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Speaker 2: wanted this car their whole life, and that they realizing

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Speaker 2: COVID caused this. They're realizing they're getting on in years

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Speaker 2: and they better get to it or they might not

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Speaker 2: be around to do what they always want to do

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Speaker 2: or had One guy whose dad bought this car brand new.

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Speaker 2: He remembered driving it around in nineteen seventy one Javelin AMX,

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Speaker 2: remember driving it around around in and as a child,

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Speaker 2: his dad got dementia. It brings tears in my eyes.

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Speaker 2: So the guy restored the car and brought it to

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Speaker 2: his dad. Now Dad couldn't remember which foot to put

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Speaker 2: his shoe on, but he remembered every single time car Yeah, yep, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Cooper Cobra GT radios on it. And Dad yelled at

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Speaker 2: the sun because they're supposed to have good year polyglass, right.

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Speaker 1: Isn't Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing? But when you

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Speaker 1: drive around Peoria, and I'm sure you look at repair shops,

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Speaker 1: you know, car guys tend to look at repair shops.

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Speaker 1: What are they working on?

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Speaker 3: What are they doing?

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Speaker 1: Is the fleet out there older? Are people inclined to

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Speaker 1: replace vehicles or are they more inclined to repair vehicles.

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Speaker 2: It's a really good question. So it's it's a zychotomy.

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Speaker 2: So Arizona Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the

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Speaker 2: country now. So one of the attractions to Phoenix is

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Speaker 2: that the Phoenix area is it's affordable and the taxes

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Speaker 2: are low. So you've got a mix of new, young

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Speaker 2: urban people that are professionals and they're all in the

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Speaker 2: fancy new cars. And then you've got a mix of

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Speaker 2: the older retired folks that are just hanging onto a

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Speaker 2: car because they came somewhere it was inexpensive to live,

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Speaker 2: and they don't want to be spending a lot of

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Speaker 2: money on new cars. So it's kind of fifty to

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Speaker 2: fifty right.

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Speaker 3: Right, right?

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Speaker 1: Hey, Dan, can you you got time to hang around

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Speaker 1: a little bit more? I want to pull over take

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Speaker 1: a pause when we come back, if you can stay,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about so we've

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Speaker 1: we've laid out the problem, maybe we can talk about

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Speaker 1: the solution and see what we can see what we

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Speaker 1: can come up with. I'm Ronny and the Car Doctor.

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Speaker 1: I'm joined this hour by Dan Curtis. He's the owner

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Speaker 1: of A Z A mc Restorations out in Peoria, Arizona.

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Speaker 1: And we'll both return right after this.

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Speaker 3: Don't go away, Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Listeners want to any of the car Doctor, I'm here

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Speaker 1: with Dan Curtis, the owner of A Z A mc

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Speaker 1: Restorations out in Peoria, Arizona.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Dan, that is correct.

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Speaker 1: And we were talking about the issues from your Facebook post,

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Speaker 1: your social media post talking about, you know, problems finding

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Speaker 1: a machine shop, reputable machine shop, quality work, getting it

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Speaker 1: done in a timely manner. All the issues that you know,

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Speaker 1: is there a solution? Is there an end to this

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Speaker 1: insight where we're going to be able to find machine

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Speaker 1: shops again?

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Speaker 2: So this is a very good question. I just as

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Speaker 2: a result of that same post on social media, a

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Speaker 2: fellow who has a racing engine machine shop here in

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Speaker 2: Phoenix is sixty one years old and call me up

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Speaker 2: because we've done business with him before, but he specializes

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Speaker 2: in racing engines. Asked me if I wanted to buy

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Speaker 2: his beautiful shop, and he's got a couple of million

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Speaker 2: dollars worth of equipment in it. It's like a data

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Speaker 2: center floor. It's immaculate, and unfortunately I'm a bit older

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Speaker 2: than him, so I told him, although I'd love to,

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Speaker 2: it's probably not in the cards for me. So I

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Speaker 2: think what the bottom line is and where I'm going

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Speaker 2: with this is it's about the dollar. We have been

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Speaker 2: so used to the machine shop world being a good

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Speaker 2: value and relatively inexpensive part of an engine build. That's

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Speaker 2: not going to be possible anymore.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this guy wanted if he wanted me to buy,

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Speaker 2: it was going to be millions of dollars to buy

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Speaker 2: his shop. And it's a racing business. So you know,

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Speaker 2: you can't charge one hundred dollars for decking the top

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Speaker 2: of a block when you've got a note for three

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Speaker 2: million dollars to buy the place right.

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Speaker 1: Right, And that machine that decks the block is how

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Speaker 1: many hundreds of thousands of dollars or thousands of dollars right,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's return on investment. It just it has

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Speaker 1: to be practical.

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Speaker 2: So it gets even worse than that. Now, all the

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Speaker 2: repair parts for those things are not made in the

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Speaker 2: United States anymore. So let's say you have this two

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars boring and decking machine and

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Speaker 2: a part breaks on it. You might have to wait

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Speaker 2: three months to get the part because it has to

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Speaker 2: be made and then shipped over from China. So we're

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Speaker 2: at a crossroads. We either have to accept the fact

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Speaker 2: that it's going to cost a lot more for machine shop,

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Speaker 2: or or it's going to go away. I mean, those

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Speaker 2: are the two options. There's no in between. So I'm

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Speaker 2: hoping and expecting that the result of our not making

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Speaker 2: anything and having these foreign made parts be poor quality

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Speaker 2: will result in a reinvestment in our own manufacturing capabilities

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Speaker 2: without that we're at the mercy of a foreign country.

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Speaker 2: And we talked off air that you have some you

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Speaker 2: know your history buff and World War two buff. Imagine

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Speaker 2: getting in a war and relying on your enemy to

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Speaker 2: supply you with the parts for your war munitions and

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Speaker 2: your war equipment. Right, it's the craziest thing I've ever

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Speaker 2: thought of.

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Speaker 1: Do you have kids walking in the shop in our

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Speaker 1: last minute that are interested in this or no?

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Speaker 2: So we're kind of a tour destination for the AMC faithful,

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Speaker 2: and then people in general, like you have heard about us.

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Speaker 2: So we get visitors all the time, not necessarily kids,

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Speaker 2: although they bring their kids with them who seem bored

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Speaker 2: because they're not on their cell phone. But we get

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Speaker 2: a lot of people that come in and just want

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Speaker 2: to see what we're doing, see the car as we're

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Speaker 2: working on, because there's not that many shops around that

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Speaker 2: do this stuff anymore.

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Speaker 1: And there's just they're not coming in looking for a job,

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Speaker 1: was my question, Right, Yeah, no, that doesn't exist.

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Speaker 2: No, not really, so very few. And then the ones

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Speaker 2: we have, the youngsters, have tried to hire and get

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Speaker 2: them to be an apprentice. Again, I hate to be

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Speaker 2: so generalized, but the cell phone is a big interference

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Speaker 2: with people doing their job these days.

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Speaker 1: And it just it just keeps these kids from going

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Speaker 1: Hey Dan, real quick, last ten seconds. Name of the

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Speaker 1: shop web address.

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Speaker 2: So it's www dot AMC musclecars dot com. And that'll

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Speaker 2: actually bring you to the Facebook page because it's easy

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Speaker 2: to put stuff on Facebook than it is to put

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Speaker 2: it on my website.

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Speaker 1: Perfect cool beans, Dan, thanks for joining us today. I'm

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Speaker 1: Ron An Ending and the car Doctor. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: right after this.

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Speaker 3: Can it be live in