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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody on Brooke Burke, and you might be wondering

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Speaker 1: why you're hearing my voice and not the usual duo.

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Speaker 1: I'm really happy to be joining you and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I guess we just addressed the elephant in the room,

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Speaker 1: you know, right off the top. I have been following,

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Speaker 1: you know, the latest news with with Janna and Michael

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Speaker 1: and um. You know, as a woman, I want to

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Speaker 1: say that I have been through two very public divorces.

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Speaker 1: It is hard, um, and I'm here just filling in

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, right now, I feel like a pause,

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Speaker 1: a moment that they're giving themselves for whatever reason that

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Speaker 1: might not be our business yet um is real and

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Speaker 1: valid and super duper important. So I'm just here to

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Speaker 1: dish and chat. And we have an amazing guest joining

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Speaker 1: us today, which I'm very grateful for, Hillary Goldscher, And

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Speaker 1: she's a clinical psychologist. She specializes in couples and relationship therapy.

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Speaker 1: So um, she's going to be our expert. I've so

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Speaker 1: many things to ask her, and it's so nice to

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Speaker 1: have someone like her to bounce things off of because

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Speaker 1: I'm not an expert. I've been through this, but I'm

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Speaker 1: still learning and I also want to just reiterate that

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Speaker 1: these are all possibilities, Like, no one knows what somebody

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Speaker 1: else is going through, and it's really easy for all

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Speaker 1: of us to assume and and um, you know, to

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Speaker 1: talk about Janet Mike, but honestly, uh, nobody has any

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Speaker 1: idea of what goes on in the privacy of people's home.

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Speaker 1: So give them grace. And I'm really happy that Hillary

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Speaker 1: is here because I just want to keep it real

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Speaker 1: and hopefully we can all learn and um and grow

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Today. Well, I'm here too, it's Mark

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Speaker 1: and Um. I was stunned, of course when I heard

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Speaker 1: the news. And people will say, how, how can you

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Speaker 1: be stunned? It's been years of a podcast with these

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Speaker 1: two arguing, bickering, struggling through their relationship. But I really

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Speaker 1: thought they had turned a corner. I really thought that um,

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Speaker 1: Michael had reached a point in his therapy that he

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Speaker 1: was asked what he's being said to have done in

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Speaker 1: the press. And I don't know what he's done, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't want to assume anything, but

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Speaker 1: there's a lot out there about infidelity on his part.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's happened again or not, but

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Speaker 1: if it has happened again, that's what I'm completely shocked about.

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Speaker 1: Just knowing him over the past few years, I really

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Speaker 1: felt he wanted desperately to put that part of his

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Speaker 1: life behind him. Yeah, you know, it's yeah, I can't,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of those cheesy quotes, But I swear

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Speaker 1: it's so true that everybody else's opinion is really none

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Speaker 1: of our business. I mean, it's sort of like the mystery,

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Speaker 1: you know, having gone through two marriages, for children, two divorces, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes we just don't get to be who

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Speaker 1: we hope to be in a relationship. And one of

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Speaker 1: the turning points for me um in my most recent

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Speaker 1: divorce to David, and I feel really comfortable today saying

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Speaker 1: that I had a chance to marry the love of

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Speaker 1: my life, like we had a mad love affair, connects

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Speaker 1: and chemistry, two beautiful children, like conceived from love and

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Speaker 1: raised in that same vein. And you know, it was

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Speaker 1: devastating to feel in moments that I failed. And my

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Speaker 1: turning point was when I realized that I wasn't giving

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Speaker 1: up and I didn't fail. It was just time to

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Speaker 1: let go, and it was time to sort of meet

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Speaker 1: my relationship that was hard with um, honesty and a

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Speaker 1: bit of a surrender, if that makes sense. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I have a podcast called Intimate Knowledge, and

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Speaker 1: we sort of broke it down when I was very

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Speaker 1: raw and vulnerable. And you know, sometimes those are the

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Speaker 1: greatest times to bring light to this challenge because I

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Speaker 1: struggled in the letting go of the fairy tale that

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Speaker 1: I wanted and letting go of who we were trying

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Speaker 1: to be in Yeah, therapy and yeah kids and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff worth fighting for and the moment in time

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Speaker 1: and by the way, we worked on it for years

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Speaker 1: before we had our our our, our transition into change.

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Speaker 1: And you know that's the way everybody calls it something

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Speaker 1: fabulous publicly, right, I mean you remember all the criticism,

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Speaker 1: you know, with so many people in the press. Um,

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Speaker 1: But for me, it was like it was time for

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Speaker 1: change and I had to own that and that was

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Speaker 1: freaking hard. You know. I was reading, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: Janna's post last week and um, it was right before

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Speaker 1: I agreed to to co host today and to come

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Speaker 1: in and fill in, and you know, as a woman,

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Speaker 1: I was like, girl, absolutely take your time, take your moment,

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Speaker 1: and it deserves no explanation, but I also read it

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Speaker 1: and it brought me back to that time in my

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Speaker 1: life several years ago when I was like, Okay, I've

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Speaker 1: shared my life publicly with everyone. I've opened everything up,

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Speaker 1: I've committed to be honest, and now do I really

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Speaker 1: have to talk about it? What do I say? What

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Speaker 1: do I not say? How do I protict my family?

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Speaker 1: Is it time right now? What does that look like?

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Speaker 1: Is it cheesy to do it? And it's like, what

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Speaker 1: the hell do you say? What's my like one paragraph statement?

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Speaker 1: And reading her post that I thought was so beautifully put, um, honest, painful, vulnerable,

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Speaker 1: all the things that it that it um needed to

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Speaker 1: be for her, and I just I really feel for

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Speaker 1: for the you know, the family, the couple, and um,

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Speaker 1: there's no right or wrong way to do it right,

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Speaker 1: there's no right or wrong way to stay married, there's

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Speaker 1: no right or wrong way to separate, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I just I hope that everybody you know listening gives

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Speaker 1: them grace and the support publicly is so amazing. And

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Speaker 1: then there's also like this desperate need I think is

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Speaker 1: a public person for a moment of privacy and to

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Speaker 1: have freedom to become unraveled and to be upset and

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Speaker 1: to feel like crawling into a hole or a ball

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Speaker 1: or whatever you need to do. Is it human being?

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Speaker 1: It's not just a woman to woman, it's the whole family.

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Speaker 1: So I I just to say that, and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can guess all we want, right And and it's hard,

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Speaker 1: it's really really hard, and anyone's going through well, you're

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Speaker 1: mentioning that element is not something I can relate to.

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Speaker 1: A lot of of people get divorced. They tell their

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Speaker 1: family and friends and it sucks and it's hard. But

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Speaker 1: the fact that you and Jana have to make a

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Speaker 1: public announcement to the world and you have to craft

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Speaker 1: a statement and all that stuff, that's got to be

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Speaker 1: a whole other added level of stress and headache. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and even when you're bleeding, you know, and there's gunfire

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Speaker 1: going off in your head and you don't really even

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Speaker 1: know what to say and you're just trying to survive it. Um,

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Speaker 1: And so many people do it and try to be

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Speaker 1: super strong. And you know, as a woman, I've found

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Speaker 1: it to be extremely valuable to give yourself that room

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Speaker 1: to feel whatever you need to feel, anger, resenting, pain,

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Speaker 1: letting go joy, whatever it is. Um. From the outside

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Speaker 1: looking in, nobody really knows what two people are going

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Speaker 1: through and why and when when the right time is UM.

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Speaker 1: But it's hard. That transition is really really hard. So

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Speaker 1: fortunately we have Hillary joining us today. She's going to

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Speaker 1: give us some professional insight. And I just want to

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Speaker 1: say quickly that all the stuff that we're talking about today,

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Speaker 1: these are just possibilities. And I want to like take

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Speaker 1: ownership in that that people get it right, they get

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Speaker 1: it wrong, and people that are going through similar things

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Speaker 1: that I've been through, that jan is going through, that

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Speaker 1: her family is going through, these are just possibilities to

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Speaker 1: consider um and rolling through that change. So um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's let's get her in here. Hey, how you doing. Hi,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Thanks for having me. We're happy

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Speaker 1: that you're here and trying to do this very delicate

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Speaker 1: dance of talking about life, love, divorce, change, transition, curious

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Speaker 1: what you might call it, doctor, all of that right?

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Speaker 1: For sure, like a grief filled episode of time. For sure,

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Speaker 1: that's the biggest word that comes to my mind, you know,

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Speaker 1: with those kind of changes, in that kind of loss. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I mean to tell everybody that's listening just a little

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Speaker 1: bit about you, what you do, what your specialty is.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy that you are. Um, you know, the queen

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Speaker 1: of couples in relationship therapy, which is awesome because everybody

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Speaker 1: needs as much advice in that area. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and let's let's just see if we can give them

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Speaker 1: some good positive takeaways. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm

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Speaker 1: Dr Hillary Culture. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and normally

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Speaker 1: at this point, I say, in Beverly Hills, but now

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Speaker 1: operating out of my home office in another location in

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Speaker 1: Gae right, but my specialties include of course couples and

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Speaker 1: parenting as well as trauma and depression and anxiety. So

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Speaker 1: this is right at my alley and um, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: glad we're able to have this discussion in such like

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Speaker 1: a timely, real life moment, even though it's so tricky,

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Speaker 1: and you know it is tricky and I've been through

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Speaker 1: it twice. We were just talking about that a little

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Speaker 1: bit and just you know, honesty, vulnerability, I think, freedom

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Speaker 1: for couples to do whatever you need to do in

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Speaker 1: this process. And you know, the tricky part two is

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Speaker 1: being public and you know, even today having a conversation

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Speaker 1: you know, without them about them. Um. You know, I

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Speaker 1: kind of want to keep it personal and and keep

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Speaker 1: it relevant for other people who are struggling as well,

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Speaker 1: because you know, two of my divorces were completely different. Um,

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Speaker 1: both traumatic, both super painful. I have four children too,

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Speaker 1: and too um. You know, there's moments of feeling like

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Speaker 1: you failed. There's moments of allowing yourself freedom to change

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Speaker 1: and grow, and there's just like a whole rainbow of emotions.

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Speaker 1: And then publicly and trying to have game face on

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Speaker 1: as a woman and trying to be a mom and

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Speaker 1: showing up and going to work and finding the right

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Speaker 1: narrative to tell people who care about you. Um, Like

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Speaker 1: that's a whole another level of coping with separation, divorce.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are we using the d work today? I

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Speaker 1: mean that seems like even like there's baby steps right

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Speaker 1: to getting to that place, so many things to unpack it.

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Speaker 1: You made me think of two really important things, which

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Speaker 1: is like just validating the mess of it, Validating how

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Speaker 1: hard this is, validating how grief filled it is, how

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Speaker 1: anxiety provoking it is, how depressing it is, how upsetting

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Speaker 1: it is, whether you're in the public eye or not.

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Speaker 1: And I think we all could agree that having this

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Speaker 1: kind of split in the public eye as a whole

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Speaker 1: other component, but just how difficult it is in validating

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Speaker 1: that and making it normal even though this experience is

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Speaker 1: sort of awful and abnormal in a certain way, anyone

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Speaker 1: going through this knows that you visit these stages of

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Speaker 1: upset and these stages of devastation and letting that sort

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Speaker 1: of be okay. I think it's a really important message.

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Speaker 1: No one is going to feel okay in the situation

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Speaker 1: that Um JENNI finds herself in, or in a situation

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Speaker 1: of any breakup, especially with kids. Yeah. Sure. And you

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Speaker 1: also reminded me of something that I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about as I was thinking about getting together with you today,

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Speaker 1: which is that I feel like every marriage or partnership,

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Speaker 1: if it ends, has its own sort of afterlife, has

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Speaker 1: its own specific grief filled story and has its own

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Speaker 1: journey of recovery. They're both different, almost build like a

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Speaker 1: new relationship with the partner that you're splitting with, even

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Speaker 1: if it's just in your mind, um, dealing with resentment,

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Speaker 1: dealing with anger, dealing with the feeling of loss, dealing

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Speaker 1: with co parenting, if that's on a table on the table,

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Speaker 1: it's like a whole new relationship with that person has

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Speaker 1: to be formed while you grieve the loss of the

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Speaker 1: relationship you thought you had. Yes, you made me think

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Speaker 1: of something in my first divorce. Um, both of them

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Speaker 1: were really necessary. So I'm just going to speak about

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Speaker 1: myself because that feels more appropriate. Um. And I remember

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Speaker 1: someone giving me a book called a Working Divorce. I

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Speaker 1: think that was the title. We should look it up.

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Speaker 1: And it was really instrumental because my goal was to

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Speaker 1: have a better relationship as exs than we had married,

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Speaker 1: which is not easy, and it's not easy with children,

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Speaker 1: and it's not easy depending on your partner's personality. Like

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Speaker 1: my ultimate goal in life and was sort of to

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Speaker 1: take the high road. Okay, lucky him, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. And we're not always met, you know, with

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Speaker 1: with with that, you know, same type of intention, but

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Speaker 1: figuring out ways to shift into a new way of communicating,

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Speaker 1: new boundaries, new respect even. Um. So there were there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of things that I did, obviously therapy,

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Speaker 1: but there were some really instrumental books that I read

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Speaker 1: as well that helped me get really clear kind of

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Speaker 1: on the story in my mind. Um, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: always several parts to everything in the truth lies in

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Speaker 1: the middle, and there's someone else's evaluation whatever. And I

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Speaker 1: think when you're in trauma, and I'd love to hear

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Speaker 1: your your ear sense on this. When you're in trauma

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Speaker 1: where you're going through a painful shift in your life,

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Speaker 1: sometimes we don't really see it for what it is. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and my and my second divorce it was

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Speaker 1: even harder because um, we had a very deep love.

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Speaker 1: I was really fighting for the success of that love

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Speaker 1: because I had already been divorced once and I already

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Speaker 1: felt unsuccessful in marriage. I try not to use the

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Speaker 1: word failure anymore. I already felt like I broke two

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Speaker 1: little girl's hearts, and I was like, I'll be damned

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Speaker 1: if I'm going to do that again. So I was

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Speaker 1: fighting the good fight for myself, from my children, from

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Speaker 1: my husband, from my own commitment to myself and my

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Speaker 1: own sort of commitment to like, I'm a big girl

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Speaker 1: now and I should know better, and I already this

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Speaker 1: up once, and I am going to fight for this

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Speaker 1: for all the right reasons and all the reasons worth

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Speaker 1: fighting for. And there was it was the time when

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Speaker 1: sort of together we realized that we weren't celebrating each

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Speaker 1: other anymore, and we weren't being great examples for our

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Speaker 1: little children, and we weren't loving each other the way

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Speaker 1: that we both hoped and wanted and deserved to be loved.

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Speaker 1: And we kind of leaned into that decision together. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you made me, made me think of something, and

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Speaker 1: I want to just bring a very real nous to this.

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Speaker 1: There were times, even though what I'm saying sounds really

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Speaker 1: beautiful and mature, when we hated each other where it

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Speaker 1: was freaking toxic on the sports field, I mean, like

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Speaker 1: painful to show up from my son at soccer, And

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Speaker 1: there were times when we cried in each other's arms.

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Speaker 1: There were times where we were able to connect that

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Speaker 1: it gives me goose bumps and makes me emotional, but

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Speaker 1: times where I needed him to let go. I kind

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Speaker 1: of needed to meet him and love to let go

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Speaker 1: and transition, and times when I couldn't stand the sight

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Speaker 1: or smell of him or his energy. So you go

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Speaker 1: through all kinds of things and then everybody gives you

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Speaker 1: advice and everybody tells you how to do it, And

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Speaker 1: I just think people need to give themselves grace to

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Speaker 1: feel whatever the hell they're feeling when they're feeling it.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, there's no appropriate timeline and you've got

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Speaker 1: to roll through that as a human being without expectations,

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Speaker 1: like your own journey of healing. Do you agree with that? Like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you exposed both sides, right, because those

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Speaker 1: things can coexist. They do exist, right. There can be

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Speaker 1: these moments of like peace and connection and understanding and

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Speaker 1: like hope for the future, and then these moments of

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Speaker 1: total trauma, total devastation, total toxic toxicity, and most people

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Speaker 1: and divorces experience both and saying it out loud is

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Speaker 1: going to be healing for people listening. That's normal if

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Speaker 1: you're visiting both sides. And I couldn't say it before

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Speaker 1: because I didn't understand it before. I didn't understand or

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Speaker 1: have faith that it was going to be okay when

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Speaker 1: I was in it. When you're in it, you can't

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Speaker 1: You usually can't see it, and I had to that

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Speaker 1: were so different. One was awful, the other one was

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Speaker 1: awful too. But the learning lessons and possibilities and um,

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Speaker 1: the things I did wrong the first time, I think

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Speaker 1: really helped me to step up the second time. And

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Speaker 1: I was bleeding inside like heart broken, like there's no

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Speaker 1: shame to my vulnerability, and that I wanted to stay married.

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Speaker 1: I had like a deep love and maybe I wasn't

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Speaker 1: great at it. Recognizing that the marriage just kind of

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Speaker 1: sucked was heartbreaking. Um, recognizing my faults, recognizing him faults,

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Speaker 1: but just having that sort of come to Jesus moment

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Speaker 1: where I was like, it's time now, like I did

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Speaker 1: everything we like, it's time, and getting to that point

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Speaker 1: of letting go and saying like it's time for us

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Speaker 1: to get a divorce, like like like you could die,

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Speaker 1: like you feel like you're going to die, Like you

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Speaker 1: can't breathe, like you physically can't breathe. Those two notes

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Speaker 1: are almost entire honerable. Right. The truth of like loving

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Speaker 1: someone so deeply and at the very same time knowing

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Speaker 1: that it's unsafe or unhealthy to stay together, it's almost otherworldly.

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Speaker 1: The pain that that creates in two people, right, and

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Speaker 1: coming to that decision, devastating decision that you can't be

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Speaker 1: together and be safe and healthy is, as you alluded to,

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Speaker 1: is traumatic and traumatic traumatic, and so a key how

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Speaker 1: about like how could we not be who we thought

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Speaker 1: we were? Like when you look at someone and go,

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Speaker 1: You're not who I thought you were. But maybe they are,

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Speaker 1: and maybe I thought you were someone else, or maybe

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Speaker 1: this relationship that we've been fighting for and holding onto

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Speaker 1: it's never gonna be what I dreamed it would be.

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Speaker 1: I think that was the hardest part, was the real

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Speaker 1: the reality of it is what it is like I

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Speaker 1: am looking like okay, and I think I've learned. I

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Speaker 1: think I've learned this. This This is a hard conversation everybody,

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Speaker 1: because I'm talking to a professional. Sometimes we're in our

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Speaker 1: head and we think we know what we know and

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Speaker 1: we don't know about what we don't know. Um, the

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Speaker 1: reality of accepting the facts, like for example, I'll give

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Speaker 1: you an example. I don't think I've ever talked about this,

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Speaker 1: but whatever, we all grow up. We all grow up

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Speaker 1: from our reality. I remember when when I went to

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Speaker 1: New York and I came home and he had moved out,

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Speaker 1: and yet he kept talking about how he wanted to

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Speaker 1: work on it and you didn't want to divorce, and

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Speaker 1: and I could have taken then in and be like,

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Speaker 1: he really doesn't want to divorce me, do it? You

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Speaker 1: moved out? Fact be told I went to New York,

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Speaker 1: I came home you packed up and you moved out.

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Speaker 1: I had to learn how to just take facts for reality,

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Speaker 1: and that's really hard to do, Like when you're in

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Speaker 1: your roller coaster of emotions in pain, right, like, yes,

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Speaker 1: you're talking, someone's doing wrong. Thing was like, just the

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Speaker 1: facts are that we and we look we may were

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Speaker 1: women like we make excuses, we put our war pain on.

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Speaker 1: We're super brave. We'll fight the fight. We can take it.

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Speaker 1: We can take a lot. Men to mento like this

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Speaker 1: isn't anybody's like fault. We don't. You know, everybody has

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Speaker 1: their role in it. But it's hard to get real, right,

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Speaker 1: I think you're talking about and this word was coming

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Speaker 1: up as you were describing your sort of personal stories,

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Speaker 1: like disorientation. Right, you're looking through one lens for so long,

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Speaker 1: this lens of you and him and seeing yourself a

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Speaker 1: certain way, seeing him a certain way, seeing your life

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Speaker 1: a certain way, and it's totally disorienting when it starts

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Speaker 1: to crumble. And so we may fill in the blanks

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Speaker 1: another way, right, that doesn't include the truth, That doesn't

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Speaker 1: include the facts. We can't take them in. We can't

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Speaker 1: absorb it because it's too disorienting, it's too traumatic and again,

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Speaker 1: even though in retrospect we might beat ourselves up or

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Speaker 1: think like how could I have missed that? Or how

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Speaker 1: could I have tolerated it? But I don't think those

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Speaker 1: are the right questions to ask. The sort of the

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Speaker 1: way to look at it is is your depth of love,

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Speaker 1: your willingness to sort of persevere, or your ability to

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Speaker 1: have faith in people, and then your ability to also

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Speaker 1: recognize a truth when your heart and soul and mind

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Speaker 1: are ready for it, right, and that happens for different

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Speaker 1: people at different times, And circling back to something we

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Speaker 1: said at the beginning, there's no manual, there's no judgment

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Speaker 1: that should be ascribed to when that happens for people.

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Speaker 1: It happens at different times for different reasons, based on

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Speaker 1: the individuals involved, and we want to honor that journey

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Speaker 1: for someone, not judge it or success it or try

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Speaker 1: to impram it. I am all in that I am

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Speaker 1: all in with Scott Patterson and I Hurt Radio podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is Scott Patterson, you know me as Luke on

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Speaker 1: the show Gilmore Girls, and I have a podcast called

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Speaker 1: I Am All In. So you know, here's the thing

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Speaker 1: about the podcast is, I've never ever, ever seen only

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Speaker 1: seen one movie, and I've only seen the pilot, so

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Speaker 1: a hundred fifty three episodes and three movies I have

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Speaker 1: not seen. And I know you guys have been binge

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Speaker 1: watching it through the COVID and you know for twenty

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Speaker 1: one years, and the generations of families and mothers and daughters,

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Speaker 1: and let's watch it together, guys. You know, we'll share stories.

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Speaker 1: We'll share the memories. I've got a million stories to tell,

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Speaker 1: especially about Sean Gunn and my loventabilia and a lot

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Speaker 1: of other people too. And guess what. You can pull

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Speaker 1: out your cell phones and use them during the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I guess how am I gonna know you come into

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Speaker 1: the diner into that. That's a different story. Listen to

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Speaker 1: I Am all In on the I Heart Radio app,

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00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everybody,

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00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am

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00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at I

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Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. Oh you gil More fans. If

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00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world,

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00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: go to my website for my company scott ep dot com,

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Speaker 1: s c O T t y P dot com, scotty

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00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: P dot Com Grade one specialty coffee. Would you agree

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Speaker 1: that we're in denial. It's sort of a coping mechanism sometimes,

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Speaker 1: or there's an acceptance to just not rock the boat.

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Speaker 1: Because I it was leaving was harder than staying. I

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Speaker 1: want to just put that out there for everyone who's struggling.

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Speaker 1: And I believe in marriage. I fight the fight. I'm like, I,

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Speaker 1: I actually, I don't know if that's true. Let me

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Speaker 1: think I was gonna say, I believe in forever, but

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Speaker 1: forever looks different. I don't know what forever looks like

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Speaker 1: because of my my past, in my history. But I

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Speaker 1: but I believe in love and I believe in long

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Speaker 1: term commitment. But I I, I don't know. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think the idea that we have to give up this dream,

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Speaker 1: this notion, this narrative that we had for our lives

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Speaker 1: is so so devastating that the trauma of that, the

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Speaker 1: fear of that keeps us paralyzed, keeps us stop, gets

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Speaker 1: us rewriting the narrative so that we can stay, we

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Speaker 1: can do the quote easier thing. And I know what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. I mean, you play sort of underscore that,

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Speaker 1: like right in a way, it was easier to stay.

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Speaker 1: It makes sense that way we don't have to have

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Speaker 1: that disorientation, experience that deep sense of loss and that grief,

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Speaker 1: and face the world through this completely new lens. It

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Speaker 1: makes so much sense that it's safer to stay, even

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Speaker 1: if it's I don't know, toxic doing all the things

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Speaker 1: that you or others might experience. How do you guide

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Speaker 1: couples UM who are not quite like when you okay?

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Speaker 1: So like we look through the lens and life is changing.

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Speaker 1: It took me along a long time two accept the

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Speaker 1: change and to even be okay in UM my new

428
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: life like not being someone's wife like I liked being

429
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: someone's wife. I liked living here together as a family.

430
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 1: I liked I felt very safe having my husband living here,

431
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: even though draw me bananas, UM, and I say that

432
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: with love now because we drove each other bananas. But

433
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: I there were so many parts of it that I liked,

434
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: and the new life that didn't feel good, didn't feel comfortable,

435
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: it felt necessary. UM. How do you help people who

436
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: are like in the in the immediate shift of UM change,

437
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: where they're not quite there yet to learn from the

438
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: lessons and do all the things we know we're supposed

439
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: to do and just the immediate coping, like what what

440
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: do you tell people? How do you help people through

441
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: that traumatic time, this time like now, like what they're

442
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: going through. Yes, I try to remind people first and

443
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: foremost or exactly what you're alluding to, which is that

444
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 1: this is a trauma. You are in crisis, and our

445
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: brains do not work during trauma and crisis. I call

446
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: it sometimes brief brain. We're literally we are unable to process,

447
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: we were unable to take a new information, We're unable

448
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: to mobilize hopefulness. We're scientifically we can like baby brain,

449
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: like you can't. Literally, there is something called a grief

450
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: brain where your your neural pathways are not firing like

451
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 1: they normally would be when you're not in trauma, when

452
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: you're not in crisis. So while that might not make

453
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: a person to feel sort of physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually

454
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: better in the moment, that information, that sort of psycho education,

455
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: is useful to know that, like this won't always be

456
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: the case. I won't always feel this way, and I

457
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: shouldn't rely on how I'm feeling now and how I'm

458
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: feeling about the future to make predictions about what my

459
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: life is going to look like. Rather, I should really

460
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: lean into and acknowledge and validate that, like I'm in crisis,

461
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: I'm in trauma. While it's completely uncomfortable and awful and devastating,

462
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: this is kind of what it looks like and feels like,

463
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: and it's all I should expect right now, and to

464
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: have some faith that like the resilience that you have

465
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: in there, and that um the support that you have,

466
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: and that the very tools that you use to make

467
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: the decision to leave will emerge as part of your

468
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: support network if you will, both kind of internally and

469
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: externally as you rebuild. I love to say, and I

470
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: sort of alluded to this before, but I love to

471
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: say to clients the idea that like, no feeling state

472
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: ever stays the same, and when you really take that

473
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: in and think about it, that's always true. You really

474
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: can't name a feeling state that you're like that never shifted,

475
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: that never changed, it never changed in its duration, intensity, etcetera.

476
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: So leaning into that truth sometimes helps too. It's just

477
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: kind of a factual thing. It won't always feel this way,

478
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 1: and that you should um wait to make decisions about

479
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: what you imagine your life needs to look like what

480
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: you hope that your life is going to feel like

481
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: until you're out of that initial phase and just lean

482
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: into all the support and validation and comfort resources that

483
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: you have in your life. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's no

484
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: for sure. How do you feel about um also leaning

485
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: into the pain? Because I like, as a working woman

486
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: and a mom, and a lot of people do this,

487
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: Like it's hard to sit with yourself and be in

488
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: it and and I don't mean self evaluate and like,

489
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't mean that, but I mean just giving yourself

490
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: room to cry, to sit in your own pain and

491
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: feel those real emotions like I can remember feeling lost,

492
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: feeling hopeless, feeling so sad and not knowing what the

493
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 1: other side of it looked like or if it was

494
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: ever gonna get like and and my my natural self

495
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: wanted to just get super busy because I'm so good

496
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: at that. I'm so good at like multitasking me burying myself,

497
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: like work was my gentle therapeutic exercise if I were

498
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: to just cram my schedule. I have fabulous friends at

499
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: a great support system, and I was never strong enough

500
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: as a younger woman to not do that. I think

501
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: that's why I stayed married for so long because I

502
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: was generally happy and kind of rolling through it. I

503
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: had to force myself to let myself be really sad

504
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: and lonely, and not in a punishing way. I had

505
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: to allow myself to sit in the and feel it,

506
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: and it did not feel good, and I would have

507
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: much rather called My girlfriend had been like, hey, there's

508
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: so many ways to drown, you know, to to drown

509
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: on that. So I just was curious, um, what your

510
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: thoughts are on that, because it's so much easier to

511
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: get busy and just buff it out. I love that

512
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: you're asking this question because it is critical, a requirement,

513
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: mandatory to move through the pain, to sit in it,

514
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: to feel it, to process it. Because what happens is

515
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: that if we suppress it, minimize it, avoid it, dismiss it,

516
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: find ways to make it go away, even healthy ways,

517
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: even supportive ways, it gets stuck inside our body, like

518
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: there's still emotional rent to pick right. Even if we

519
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: find ways push it away, it's gonna come up and

520
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: out in some way, although it's going to come up

521
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: and out in an unhealthy, unproductive, even toxic way. So

522
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: while every part of our mind, body, soul, wants to

523
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: reject sitting in that pain. It's a critical part of

524
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: this and we can do it in bits and pieces. Right,

525
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be a deluge. If we don't

526
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: have to um, sort of wallowing it every minute, every

527
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: minute of every day. We can use those compartmentalization skills

528
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: that you talked about, where you're sort of like, okay,

529
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: it's I've been six hours into this today, Like I'm

530
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: putting it away. I know it's going to be there

531
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: for me. I'm calling that girlfriend and I'm you know,

532
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: having that conversation, I'm bearing myself in work, etcetera. But

533
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: he stops. But I do think it takes the kind

534
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: of consciousness that you're talking about. It's really hard to

535
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: access when you're going through it, but people who are

536
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: listening can more deliberately think through it, like I need

537
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: to give myself space to feel this pain, otherwise it's

538
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: going to get stuck inside of me, and I'm going

539
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: to get stuck, you know, sort of paralleled in justice,

540
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: like no man's land, where you're not moving forward and um,

541
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: you know, you're not back where you used to be.

542
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: You're just sort of in the middle trying to avoid pain,

543
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: like such a human nature kind of I'll do it,

544
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: and it's real talk. It's way easier if you're not

545
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: going to do it. That's that's part of the relief

546
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: that we need. We need a respite from all of it.

547
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: What we want to be conscious about, Like, if that's

548
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: the only strategy we employ, it's going to be really

549
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: hard to move through it. That's part. I'm glad you

550
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: said that rest period in it, because, um, depending on

551
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: how intensive personality is, it's not like one way or

552
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: the other. And it's like you said, it's now I'm

553
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: understanding that you know the clinical side of it too,

554
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: which I didn't understand in it. So this is a

555
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: learning um show for me too. UM. But making those

556
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: those decisions and really understanding what's best You're like, we

557
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: clearly don't know what's best for us because we just

558
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: our whole world just freaking imploded and we're in survival mode.

559
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: I do want to say something positive about this. Um

560
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: an Easier said than done, because I'm I'm years healed

561
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: in my process. I don't know if it ever totally heals,

562
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: but I've evolved so much as a woman and a

563
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: mother through my experiences. UM. The time that I gave

564
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: myself alone and I was never alone in my whole life,

565
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: like a whole series of bad choices. I was a

566
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: bad picker as a young woman, didn't miss a beat

567
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: in the dating world, got married really young, had four

568
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: kids young. I mean, I just I just was a

569
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: lover like I was not meant to be alone. I

570
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: thought being alone was not by choice. I did not

571
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: want to be alone. I would have much rather been

572
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: the arms of the next best thing, and it would

573
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: have felt a hell of a lot better than crying

574
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: myself to sleep every night, which I did. Um, and

575
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: I needed to The choice to be alone for me,

576
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: being a mother looking back now was probably the most

577
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: valuable awakening of my life because I had little ones

578
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: and I have four little ones. Right. I never had

579
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: a moment and I thought I was cruising. I thought

580
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: I was doing really well at that speed. Need Um,

581
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: I was cruising so great that I didn't even know

582
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: my marriage was well in a park. But my point

583
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: is that moment that I life handed me right. However

584
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: you look at it, I'm really spiritual, so it depends

585
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: on your belief system. But that moment, that transitional time

586
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: in my life, that was really hard. Gave me the

587
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: greatest gift as a woman that I have ever experienced.

588
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: And I'm almost I'll be fifty this year. I never

589
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: spent time alone. I never fought through that uncomfortable nous.

590
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: I never slowed down to really listen to the language

591
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: of my own soul, my heart. I wasn't strong enough. Um,

592
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: and then I had a whole boatload of kids, so

593
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: I didn't have time to do that. And any moment

594
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: that I somebody, I had, somebody needed that time alone.

595
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: Even though it was dark and hard. Um, there were

596
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: so many powerful moments of light, and I learned so

597
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: much about myself as a woman. But I don't think

598
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: I could have learned with a man laying in bed

599
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: next to me. I don't think I could have learned

600
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: with a man be having coffee with me in the morning,

601
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: or a baby or whatever light whatever your life narrates.

602
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: So I just I just want to say that that,

603
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: you know, in the hardest times of our life, I

604
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: found that. Um, they were powerful moments of self discovery

605
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: for me as a woman, and I'm really grateful for that. Um.

606
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: It wasn't the way I wanted my story, my love

607
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: story to end, I had a different idea of marriage.

608
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: I think I was in love with the entity of

609
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: marriage more than I was in love with my marriage.

610
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: And I would have bet my life that I would

611
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: have stayed married forever first time. That's who I thought

612
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: I was. I believed in forever. I thought I was

613
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: gonna have this happy ever after family. We were all

614
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: gonna my daughters were going to grow up and know

615
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: that you get married and you get to kinda on

616
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: that man and it's forever, mom Like that broke my heart.

617
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 1: But I learned so much about myself during that time

618
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: because I never had that time. Yes, as a woman,

619
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: I mean you're talking about being prescribed that as but

620
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: being prescribed is kind of quiet, that's kind of rum

621
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: for self reflection. That yielded something that perhaps you wouldn't

622
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: have found another way. Do you get that as a

623
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: as a wife and a mother unless you are a

624
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: badass evolved and you know about boundaries, Which my other

625
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: wish for everybody listening is create those boundaries while you

626
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: are married, while you are in it, before you're a mother,

627
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: when you're a young woman, carry that through your life,

628
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: your love, whatever your chaos is. How do you create

629
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: those boundaries when you don't know how desperately you need them,

630
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: and like losing sight of that woman behind the scenes,

631
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: Like I didn't know this in my twenties thirties. I

632
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: just figured it out, to be honest, creating those boundaries

633
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: for growth, for stillness, for quiet time, like you said,

634
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: for just selfishness, which is not selfish. It's like this

635
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: is like your this is your your lifeboat right here. Um,

636
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: we don't know how to do as a younger woman.

637
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: We're not taught do agree like we're not like my

638
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: mom didn't teach me and you had a great mom.

639
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: Thank god. I have a beautiful mom who was soulful

640
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: and loving and romantic. Not great at marriage either, but

641
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: she was a lot of awesome things. But she didn't

642
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: teach me or like, we're not taught our generation about

643
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: boundaries and about putting yourself first and that that's okay,

644
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm not raising my daughters like that. I'm

645
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: raising my daughters to live out loud and and to

646
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: know what feels good and to know what feels bad.

647
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: And I'd like to raise them to believe in forever.

648
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: But through their life challenges, I'm teaching them that sometimes

649
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,959
Speaker 1: change is necessary, and then it's okay. And it doesn't

650
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: mean you bail when it gets hard. It's not that

651
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: it's it's sometimes change is necessary. And I think that's growth.

652
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: And that was my freedom in the trauma of my divorce,

653
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: being married to my soul mate, who I thought was

654
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: my soul the love of my life. Like I had

655
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: to define giving up and failing and call it let

656
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: letting go. And I had to move through that um

657
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: and bleed inside and then he'll slowly and healed together

658
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: here separately. Ah, all kinds like this is like we

659
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: could talk for hours every day about this. You know,

660
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: you need real moments. You need freedom, I think, male female,

661
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: to do whatever you need to do during your time. Yes,

662
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: you are. You touched on so many important things. I'll

663
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: pick out the now. We're all over the place. But

664
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 1: it's like it so related. But the sort of consciousness

665
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: that narrative around the boundaries and having time and space

666
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: and deep thought around what you'll tolerate and what you want,

667
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: what you won't, what's best for you and what works

668
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: for you and what really defines love for you and

669
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: what are your deal breakers and all of those things.

670
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: Being able to tolerate the possibility of loss, the possibility

671
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: of disconnection, the possibility of not having the fairy tale

672
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in, and the service of taking

673
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: care of oneself, right, the service of taking care of

674
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: I'm writing this down because you know, it's so amazing,

675
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: Like when you listen to podcast to everybody like there's

676
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: so much information. I'm like a note. I'm like taking

677
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: notes because we're so lucky to have you and your expertise.

678
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: You know, not everybody you can afford therapy knows how

679
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: to get Like it's just a weird time, right, not

680
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: everybody even believes in it. Um, the service of taking

681
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: care of yourself, that's amazing, right, But that then to

682
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: your point, around people don't do that, run how we

683
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: take how we raise our girls, and that kind of narrative, right,

684
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: getting really specific, really mindful around those things probably isn't

685
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: something that happens enough when our girls, well really our kids.

686
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: But we're talking about sort of a specific pocket of

687
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: moving through the world, right, that that needs to be

688
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: much more conscious and much more brought out and thought about.

689
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: And sometimes a crisis, a trauma like a divorce, starts

690
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: getting someone who really hasn't reflected on that in like

691
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: a real way, in a real way that connects to

692
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: thoughts and actions, and setting up a life that resonates

693
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: and connects with those core beliefs sort of hasn't really

694
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: been done before. So that can be the press of

695
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: his upon which one is standing as they embark in

696
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 1: the afterlife of a of a marriage. Is the possibility

697
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 1: of kind of discovering those things about that's so beautiful. Um,

698
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: the service of taking care of yourself, knowing how to

699
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: create boundaries. Not you said something else and I wrote

700
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: it down, and I don't want to interrupt you. Um,

701
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 1: I'll and I'll share like a little personal story you said,

702
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: defining what's a deal breaker? So you have you ever

703
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: seen those little like decks of cards or those little

704
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: you go to like a spar or whatever you pull

705
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: out like a card and it has a message for

706
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: you on it, or like you know, those little like

707
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: spiritual like little decks whatever. I like, goofy stuff like that. So, um,

708
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: I think I was at my hair my hair salon

709
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: one day and I pull out the little card and

710
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: the cards said exactly this quote. I still have it today.

711
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: How crazy is it? And it said, what is a

712
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: deal breaker in your relationship. So I was like, huh

713
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: and my relationship was fun at the time. I was like, oh,

714
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, let me think about that. I put

715
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: in my wallet and it was really close to my

716
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: time of acceptance in my relationship and I came across

717
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: it and it was like my ding. It was like

718
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: my light, my sirens song. I was like, that is

719
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: a deal breaker in my relationship and that happens all

720
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: the time and wake up Brooke like, okay, yeah, thank you.

721
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: I like I still have that. And I kept that

722
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: card like in the little clear part in my wallet

723
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: where your license is, so I didn't see my license,

724
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: I saw deal breaker card. And it was just like

725
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: that reminder. That's subtle, little reminder of you know what,

726
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: like not okay. Some things are are not okay, and um,

727
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's a delicate dance to even talk about

728
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: this because I'm not pointing fingers or anything. I had

729
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: beautiful moments and horrific It's my marriage and I'm accountable

730
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: as well as much as he has for all of them.

731
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: It's not a male female thing at all. This is

732
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: like a real conversation and Noobia's conversation about defining what

733
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: feels bad. And I talked to my kids about that

734
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: a lot. Recognize what feels bad because if something feels bad,

735
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: look into that, like dissect that, like get down in that.

736
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: Don't ignore that. If something feel it could be anything,

737
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: could be your friend, It could be a tone, it

738
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: could be like a sense memory, it could be sub

739
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: conscious stuff. You know that we don't even know about

740
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: pay attention to things that feel bad. And I don't

741
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: know why we're so accustomed in our society to this

742
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: like mediocre life, this mediocre Mr good enough, Mrs good

743
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: enough marriage, that's just like good enough. And you know,

744
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, easy for us to say in this world,

745
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: like we have this fabulous life, But why are we

746
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: subscribing two it's good enough? Yeah? What is that? Yeah?

747
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean I think there are a number of factors

748
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: that intersect that. I think there are often a fear

749
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: of assertiveness, right, and I say that we're deliberately not aggression,

750
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: but it's sort of willing to stand up for what

751
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: one feels I deserve or scary scary scary to um

752
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: to sort of um uh get the sort of get

753
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: the disappointment of the person that we were dealing with

754
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: right to bring that towards us, to have them be

755
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: angry at us, to have them be disappointed us by

756
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: saying this isn't working for me. How can we make

757
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: this look different? Can you imagine those words of anybody

758
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: that if we were all mature enough before the fan

759
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: to just say, hey to your lover or your partner,

760
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 1: you're your best friend, your your coworker, this isn't really

761
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: working for me. How can we can we have a

762
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: dialogue about making this better? Like if I would have

763
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: done that early on my marriage, instead of just fighting

764
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 1: it or getting resentment or shutting down or shutting up

765
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: or waiting until just like opening up the narrative in

766
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: a in any relationship, just talking about what feels good

767
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: and what feels bad, sensually, sexually, intimately, with your kids,

768
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: with life, love, work, all of that tools Like we

769
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, I just feel like we're we're not raised

770
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: like with this tool set, this this toolbox, we have

771
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: it inside of us. You know, I I guide female retreats,

772
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: not since COVID, but um, you know I I have

773
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: a mindful wellness, mindful fitness app called Brooke Brook Body,

774
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: and it's so much more than just fitness. It's very

775
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: much about mind, body and soul. But I, through my

776
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: own transition and my growth and probably my pain, I

777
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: sort of fell into this female retreat UM program and

778
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: I loved it. I probably did six of them when

779
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 1: I was healing through a marriage. So I learned so

780
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: much from other women going through what they're going through

781
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: while I was fighting my best fight. And I learned,

782
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: um what I wanted to do. I learned what not

783
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: to do. I learned how feelings are buried under the rug.

784
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: I learned how women lost sight of who they wanted to.

785
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: I learned how to sort of become the woman I

786
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: wanted to be if you will, and um, you know

787
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: I I just brought that up because there's that transition,

788
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: you know, that realization that work that time. It's so

789
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: it's hard work. It's really really hard work. And I

790
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: was so blessed to be able to do that. And

791
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: things that you're talking about like being assort of you know,

792
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: being strong and not being labeled as a bit, you know,

793
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: giving yourself permission, not feeling like a victim like I remember,

794
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: I did a whole retreat and it was about permission

795
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: and allowing women a lot of women came because they

796
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: needed strength, and we took a shift and it became

797
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: about allowing themselves to become unraveled. And they're like, what,

798
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: I didn't come here to ball apart. And I'm like, well,

799
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: maybe you need ball apart and not carry the way

800
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: to the world all the time. And there's like this

801
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: release that happens. I think when we can own some

802
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: of that, that struggle and that pain, because you know,

803
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: most of us are really good at just powering through

804
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: stuff and not slowing down to become unraveled. And um,

805
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: there's all these labels, you know. Yeah, I think part

806
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: of like what you were talking about, being able to

807
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: assert yourself, being able to ask for what you want,

808
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: being able to say, I didn't look what happened back there?

809
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: Can we talk about? It is so confirred. What's so

810
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: confronting for so many reasons. Right, we have to potentially

811
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: court people's disappointment. We have to face our own vulnerabilities

812
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: around uh, potentially someone abandoning us, someone being angry at us,

813
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: someone deciding, um that we're not we're not worth fighting

814
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: for in that moment. Right, there's a lot to confront

815
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: when we take the risk of saying I need more,

816
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: I need something different, this isn't working for me. Right,

817
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: we have to stand in our own skin. We just

818
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: have to be like present and own our own needs.

819
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: And a lot of ways there's a lot of messages

820
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: that remain around women that that that don't completely encourage

821
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: that and hold those places right, And so it's super

822
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: confronting to do what sounds simple, which is to do

823
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: a version of like, hey, like what you said that

824
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: there really hurt me, Like can we think about that together?

825
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: Which is like what I talked about a couple of therapy, Right,

826
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: that's what I talk about when I do coaching in

827
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: the workplace, a version of that, being able to just say,

828
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: like that didn't work for me, that hurt my feelings,

829
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: that made me uncomfortable. Can we sit and talk about it.

830
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: It seems so basic and straightforward, but it's super confronting,

831
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: super vulnerable for everybody, and so being able to get that, yeah,

832
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: I get that what you're saying, because as a young woman,

833
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to do that I need. I

834
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 1: knew how to go and push you away and shut

835
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: you out or maybe get angry or maybe go I'm

836
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: never going to try that again because that feels bad,

837
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: or or I knew how to just not hide from it,

838
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: but just avoid it as a woman, and maybe I'm

839
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: not listening and thinking name I'm where. I'm the other

840
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 1: side of it now as a woman. Now, I speak

841
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: all of it because it's my only way to be seen, right.

842
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: And I remember when we first started our podcast, Intimate Knowledge,

843
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: and we had a conversation um Megan Edmunds and and

844
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: Leela Deville has been amazing intimacy coach, and we were

845
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: all trying to define what intimacy is. We were having

846
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: that conversation with our audience. It was amazing how what

847
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: a struggle it was to define that word, and how

848
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: many different opinions there were, and the common denominator we

849
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 1: really came up with it. It was it was about

850
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: being heard, being seen being heard. Um. I thought it

851
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: was so fascinating, Like how good that feels when someone

852
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: just goes OK, I get that, I understand that, or

853
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: maybe they don't understand and say I don't understand that.

854
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: Tell me more about that. I could imagine if your

855
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: partner was like, I don't know what you mean, can

856
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: you tell me about that? You'd be like oh my god, yes, yes, yeah,

857
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: well that when you said that actually kind of giving bills,

858
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: that really distills it down to I think a universal

859
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: truth around intimacy, if we all really are vulnerable enough

860
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: to consider it, right, is that that is what intimacy

861
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: feels like for all of us, men and women alike.

862
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: That if we're seeing, if we're heard, if we're appreciated,

863
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: if we're known in our vulnerable spots, we feel close

864
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: to somebody. And I'll use that And it's so confronting

865
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: to both be witnessed as being vulnerable and to witness

866
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: another invulnerability. Right. Yes, it's triggering, and so we all

867
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: find different ways to avoid it, whether that's by accepting

868
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: things that don't feel good to us, glossing over, getting

869
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: super busy, um, engaging in all sorts of behavior to dismiss, avoid, suppress, minimize,

870
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: and that stuff becomes residue between people relationships, and sometimes

871
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: there's so much residue you can't come back. Yeah. Yeah,

872
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 1: it's amazing work that you do. UM. I remember being

873
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: in therapy and just being so frustrated because sometimes you

874
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: just can't see yourself and I can't see your partner

875
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: because you're so heated in your own reaction mode. And

876
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like therapy one on one.

877
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: You know, you gotta stop, you gotta listen. You know,

878
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: it's it's really so hard to do. UM. I also

879
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 1: want to say, just haven't been there, and please agree

880
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: or disagree with this. I really believe now looking back

881
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: that marriage doesn't define you, and certainly divorce does not

882
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: define you men and women. UM. Having a broken family,

883
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: I don't even like that word, but so redesigning of

884
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: a family. Like I, I really struggled with who I

885
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 1: was afterward because I wanted to be married and I

886
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: liked being a wife, but I also struggled with the

887
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: consequences of my marriage is and the that way it

888
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: was going to affect my children negatively, UM and I

889
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: and I and I do own that negatively. But I've

890
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: also been able to get them so much love and

891
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: reassure them that they have two homes and two places

892
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: of love, and UM, I've reminded them, you know, that

893
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: they're not alone in that. And you know, I remember

894
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: my children were like, oh my god, we're the only

895
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: ones like that when they were young, when you know,

896
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: we look at the look at the statistics which you

897
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: know not mean nothing. But I had to really find words. UM,

898
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: I had to take ownership. I had to get really

899
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: real with them, and I had to try to keep

900
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: an age appropriate open dialogue with my children at different ages.

901
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: And I also, UM, I know we could go on

902
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: and on and on, So I I want to just

903
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: end my thought on this and that I fought the

904
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: hardest to stay open and to continue to believe in love.

905
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: And I really believe in love, and I really lost

906
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: a deep love and my heart wanted to just just

907
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: like close up because it was way easier, and I

908
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: fought and fought and fought and fought to UM, I

909
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: want to love again, not right away, but to be

910
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: capable of loving again, and to not lose hope in

911
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: the possibility of a different kind of love, and to

912
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: know that love after a while, after a while, So

913
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to fast forward to knowing that love comes

914
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: in different shapes and sizes, and it sounds different and

915
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: it feels different. And that was hard. But I really

916
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: fought to keep my heart open, and I talked to

917
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: my children about that a lot, and even in pain

918
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: when friends let them down own and boyfriend's breakup and

919
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: like I was saying, like just love, like just have

920
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: an open heart and UM, in that space, you know,

921
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: friendship can come in and comfort can come in, and

922
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: family members and partners in different shapes and sizes, and UM,

923
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: I guess that's my my, my, my wish, Like make

924
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: that a goal, Like I'm going through the dark times

925
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: and pain of love, Like just keep loving yourself, love yourself,

926
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: let love in. Um it's easier said than done. I

927
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: couldn't have said that to you three years ago. Well,

928
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: you're you're talking about a really important concept that you

929
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: now can reflect on in retrospect. But that love has

930
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: different seasons and show different ways in different forms. And

931
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: that's part of what you've learned in your journey is

932
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: that there was a season for your marriages. And some

933
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: of that was amazing and beautiful and full of important lessons,

934
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: and some of the it was devastating, collapsing and flattening. Right,

935
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: But at the end that if you maintain like, UM,

936
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: an open relationship with love, that love isn't just one thing.

937
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: It's not just like amazing connection and intimacy. It's like

938
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 1: complex and down and ebbs and flows, and that's like

939
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: real love. Yeah, right, I mean, and who are we

940
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: just like say, what real love looks like and you

941
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 1: know what marriage looks like or what the perfect family

942
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: looks like, Like I have a blended family. We've been

943
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: through a lot this past year, and the pandemic like

944
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: brought us all together. Like I've never felt so much

945
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,479
Speaker 1: joy and happiness in my home. I didn't know when

946
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: that was going to come again. Actually it's happy or

947
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: vibes and energy is better now than it ever was

948
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: in my life. So that's sort of redesigning of my life.

949
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: Um that rebuilding, right, taking ownership with that, becoming the

950
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: architect of my life, like you know, and being confused

951
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: and lost and not knowing where getting there. Like I

952
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: have love in my life right now, and let me

953
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: tell you it is different. It feels different, it looks different,

954
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: and it is so beautiful. Is so different. But sometimes

955
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: I'm even like what was I thinking? Like what was

956
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 1: I doing? And you know you said that in the beginning,

957
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: we ask ourselves why I tolerated, why I did this,

958
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: why I didn't do that. Well, we don't know we're

959
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: in it when we're in it, So you know that grace,

960
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: that that that grace to just just be where you

961
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: need to be through the process. Well, And I love

962
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: I just want to highlight something that you've said a

963
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: couple of times in here, that it's so important around

964
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 1: divorce and families splitting in children and the year of

965
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: what the impact is going to be on the kids

966
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: and the guilt and the worry that comes along with it.

967
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: And I do a lot of work in the parenting space,

968
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: and and I love to say a version of like,

969
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: our job is not to not have bad things happen

970
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: in our lives or for our children not to witness

971
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: it or be around it. I mean, if we could have,

972
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: we would, but that's not really our job. Our job

973
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: up is to sort of send a message that like, yes, tricky, hard,

974
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 1: difficult things happen, and like here's how you stand and

975
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: find your way through it, how you build resonance and

976
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: resilience and acknowledge the pain, sitting deal with it, mobilized resources,

977
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 1: and like stay graceful and get through it right. And yes,

978
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: like I mean, as you're reflecting on how your family

979
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: showed up in this last year, that that's part of

980
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: the gift that you've given them is not trying to

981
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: shield them from the pain, not try to pretend that

982
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: there aren't mistakes or difficulties, but rather that like, this

983
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 1: is what it looks like when you're trying to push through.

984
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: And so when they're trying to push through stuff and

985
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: their young lives and as they get older, they will

986
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: use that as part of their narrative. And that is

987
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: the gift we want to give our kids, not the

988
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: idea that like tricky stuff doesn't happen. Yeah, thank you,

989
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you've given us so much great advice.

990
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. I I really, I

991
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: really enjoyed this when you tell the audience where they

992
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,479
Speaker 1: can find you and um connect with you. Of course,

993
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm just sort of rebuilding my Instagram page and I'm

994
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 1: about to start populating it with a lot of information

995
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: around couples and paraging and all that stuff. And so

996
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: that's at Dr Hillary l A. So it's h I

997
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: L l A r Y Dr Hillary l A. And

998
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: then at my website, Dr Hillary gold Shart dot com.

999
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, so valuable. I love talking to you,

1000
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: and you're super compassionate and gentle. Thank you so nice

1001
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 1: to meet you you as well. Good bye. So while

1002
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,879
Speaker 1: you're on with Dr gold schert E News just came

1003
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 1: up with a story about Joan and Mike. Yeah, they

1004
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: have obtained her divorce filing today and it reads that

1005
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: they are separating from Jenna, separating from the former football player,

1006
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: and the reasons are given are inappropriate marital conduct or

1007
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: reconcilable differences and adultery. Additionated documents revealed Jen and Mike

1008
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: entered a post nuptial agreement and she wishes aircraft. They

1009
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 1: of the two children. She asks Mike to pay alimony

1010
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: and cover the costs of her legal fees. It's so

1011
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: freaking ugly that we get to I'm coming from a

1012
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 1: public figure now that all the gory details are there.

1013
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: I mean I remember going through it and like the

1014
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: financial public share, like why has that any of anyone's business?

1015
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: But but but we're in it, and you know, Jan

1016
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,919
Speaker 1: and Micro in it, and I think that's it's hard

1017
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: when you see that and you read it, and it's

1018
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: going to keep popping up and showing up, and you're

1019
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: gonna be sitting at home and you're watching the news,

1020
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: and so that's all part of that big picture. We're

1021
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: in the business, right, so ah, but that's you know,

1022
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: that's tough. And UM, you know, I do want to

1023
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: say that, um Jan is going to be back next week. UM,

1024
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: so everybody could take a deep breath right there. UM,

1025
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: And you know what, it's hard, like they gotta they

1026
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: gotta roll through it. And I'm so happy that I

1027
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: was able to come on and fill in today and

1028
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, give her a moment. And and I'm so

1029
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: protective of, like my friends privacy and I'm so sensitive

1030
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: to even talking about people's personal life. And I feel like,

1031
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, this episode today was about a lot of things,

1032
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: and having Dr Hillary here is so valuable. And I'm

1033
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: really comfortable, you know, sharing my journey because you know

1034
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: it's come full circle now, but you know, it's always changing,

1035
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: and um, there's always an opportunity to do better and

1036
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: to learn and to be better and to keep healing

1037
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: and growing. And UM, I just I don't know. I

1038
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: I meet the whole subject matter with such tremendous compassion, um,

1039
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: and it brings me back to that place of of

1040
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a it's a painful time. And um,

1041
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: although the public support and the comments and all of that,

1042
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, a really feel can feel really good and

1043
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: really supportive. I remember there were times in my life

1044
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: I needed to just shut it down, I need to

1045
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: check out. I remember posting my statement, you know, like

1046
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: Jenna did last week, and I read it on People

1047
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: dot Com next week. Last week, I remember feeling like

1048
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: a sense of relief and the time and energy that

1049
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: went into that, and part of me was like, do

1050
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: I have to do this? Do I owe this to everyone?

1051
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: And then part of me was like appreciating the love

1052
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: and the care. But it's just like it just got real,

1053
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: like when you have to read it, I have to

1054
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: read about your life. That's that's really hard. That's hard. Well,

1055
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: thank you for being here today. I can't think advantage

1056
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: already better. Who could have given us better perspective on

1057
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: the situation? So thank you so much. I appreciate it.

1058
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm no expert. It was good to have Hillary to

1059
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: pitch and catch that, but I meant all of it,

1060
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: and I love to come back and um, I just

1061
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: want to send them a lot of love and healing

1062
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 1: light and energy. And I'm easy to find as well,

1063
00:59:52,040 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: So I'm here. I'm here. Msssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss