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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck

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Speaker 1: and Jerry's here too, and that makes this the happiest

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Speaker 1: podcast on Earth. Stuff you should know.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to CoA this one. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of like really dark violent discussion

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Speaker 1: in here.

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Speaker 2: What else just the violence? You know, you'd think of

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Speaker 2: a podcast episode about Disney's own branded neighborhood would be

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Speaker 2: safe for all ears, And it is except for the

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Speaker 2: five percent of it where we talk about the awful

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Speaker 2: crimes that have happened there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, which will be okay, something something I think

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Speaker 1: that was a good good thing to do. But something

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Speaker 1: to know about Celebration Florida if you don't know anything

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Speaker 1: about it. We're talking about a town that Disney built,

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Speaker 1: not figuratively but literally. Yeah technically it was in Walt Disney,

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Speaker 1: but the Disney Company did. Okay, so get off my

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Speaker 1: back because it was this town meant to be. Outside

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Speaker 1: of real life, everyone outside of Celebration is fascinated with

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Speaker 1: anything that can possibly be construed as dark or twisted

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Speaker 1: or bizarre or awful. It's almost like people want to

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Speaker 1: root for it to be messed up. I don't get it,

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Speaker 1: but it's all over the place.

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Speaker 2: Yes, is it really interesting? Okay, yeah, if.

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Speaker 1: You read articles about it. I think every major publication

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Speaker 1: within the last ten or so years has at least

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Speaker 1: one article about the dark side of Celebration Florida. And

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Speaker 1: it's all the same stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think if you are doing a thing

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Speaker 2: where you're like, Hi, we're going to build a town

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Speaker 2: that harkens back to the good old days of peach

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Speaker 2: pie and picket fences and the ultimate eden for your

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Speaker 2: for your family to live in, and then these kind

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Speaker 2: of things happen, then of course it's going to get

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying they're asking for that kind of treatment,

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Speaker 2: but when it's billed as such a you know, Wonder

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Speaker 2: Years sort of thing, right, that's like if the Wonder

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Speaker 2: Years had episodes with murder and sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: Right, what the very special two parterre of different.

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Speaker 2: Strokes, Oh exactly.

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Speaker 1: It was stunning. Yeah, it kind of puts a target

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Speaker 1: on your back. Even though these people just want to

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Speaker 1: be left alone, they want to go live off in

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Speaker 1: their own bubble. It's kind of the point of the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. And as a matter of fact, people who

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Speaker 1: live in Celebration I'm not sure if they still do,

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Speaker 1: but at the heyday, toward the beginning of it, people

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Speaker 1: definitely referred to it as living in the bubble. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I say we get to the backstory first, because

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Speaker 1: there's a very interesting backstory about the Disney companies and

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Speaker 1: Walt Disney in particulars machinations that ended up leading to

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Speaker 1: Celebration Florida being established. I love this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Some might say the backstory is the best part.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who would say that, but sure it's

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Speaker 1: good for sure.

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Speaker 2: All right, So let's go back in time then to

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Speaker 2: the mid nineteen sixties, specifically sixty four and sixty five,

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Speaker 2: when Disney, Walt Disney, the real person, was like, Hey,

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Speaker 2: this is Disneyland out here in California is a huge hit.

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Speaker 2: Let to do the same thing in Florida. And so they,

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Speaker 2: the corporation that is, went in and very quietly, one

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Speaker 2: might even say, in a clandestine manor bought up about

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Speaker 2: forty three square miles over twenty seven thousand acres in

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Speaker 2: the Orlando area through I guess, I mean, were they

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Speaker 2: shell companies or just different arms or set up just

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Speaker 2: to do this.

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Speaker 1: They were shell companies set up just to do this.

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Speaker 1: They were aliases used.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the companies was called not Walt

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Speaker 2: Disney Llc'.

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Speaker 1: Ricky Rouse Enterprises. Like it was all legal. But the

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Speaker 1: point that they were doing that for was because if

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Speaker 1: any landowner at the time had been like, oh, Disney's

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Speaker 1: buying up a bunch of land, I'm sure they're gonna

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Speaker 1: need my parcels, so I'm gonna triple the asking price,

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Speaker 1: it definitely would have happened. So they were very smart,

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Speaker 1: and by the time people caught on, they'd finished their

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Speaker 1: buying spree and they were finally outed in the Orlando Sentinel.

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Speaker 1: I think in I don't know, sixty five maybe as

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Speaker 1: surely the people who were behind this buying spree, you

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Speaker 1: said something about them, like Walt Disney saying like, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's try Disneyland in Florida. He definitely wanted to do that,

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Speaker 1: but he wanted to do it on just such a

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Speaker 1: vastly larger, more sweeping, more imaginative scale that it was

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Speaker 1: almost like, it's just amazing that this man ever lived.

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Speaker 1: And there's tons of criticism of him, rightfully so in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, but his imagination and like what

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Speaker 1: he got done and what he gave the world is

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Speaker 1: just it's remarkable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And one thing we need to point out about

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Speaker 2: this land is it was not like you know, prime land,

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Speaker 2: especially in nineteen sixty four, before there was Disney World there.

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Speaker 2: It was not the Orlando that we know today. And

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Speaker 2: this land, like a lot of it was swampland that

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Speaker 2: they had to spend a lot of money and time,

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Speaker 2: you know, dredging, draining, building canals and making it a

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Speaker 2: you know, a habitable place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw that they moved ten million cubic yards

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Speaker 1: of dirt. Yeah, they had to develop twenty thousand of

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Speaker 1: the twenty four thousand acres because it's just basically swamp.

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Speaker 1: And it dug fifty miles of canals and they were

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Speaker 1: doing all this. Like you said, Orlando wasn't the Orlando

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Speaker 1: that it is today. Orlando is the way it is

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Speaker 1: today because of what they were doing during this period.

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Speaker 1: This is what started it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anyone is under any misc inceptions

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Speaker 2: about like what built that town. Sure, and it was

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Speaker 2: a guy with a little pencilly mustache, but the town

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Speaker 2: that ended up there celebration is not what the original

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Speaker 2: plan was. The original plan was way cooler because if

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Speaker 2: you've ever been to Epcot, their Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: one of their theme parks there, and you walked around

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Speaker 2: and looked at the vision for this idylic society, that

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Speaker 2: was what they were trying to build. They were it

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be a neighborhood where people lived, and

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Speaker 2: it actually Epcot was a real place and not a

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Speaker 2: theme park.

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Speaker 1: Did you see that the photo spread of the Epcot model,

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Speaker 1: the original Epcot model I sent you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of those houses were pretty sweet.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that sweet? Yeah, it was really cool. And I

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Speaker 1: saw that Walt Disney planned for Epcot, the Experimental Prototype

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Speaker 1: Community of Tomorrow, to never be finished, to never be complete,

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Speaker 1: to always be trying new stuff ABTNS I think is

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Speaker 1: what he said. Yeah, and it didn't quite go that way.

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Speaker 1: They after he died, and when they finally did build Epcot,

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Speaker 1: they called it that and they it is like meant

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Speaker 1: to demonstrate future cool technology and then also kind of

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Speaker 1: confusingly all the countries and nations of the world at

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Speaker 1: the same time. But it is a really cool park,

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Speaker 1: but it's nothing like what he wanted. The people don't

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Speaker 1: live there, it's not like an experimental community, and that

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Speaker 1: would actually become Celebration later on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he kind of wanted it to be

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Speaker 2: like Tomorrowland, which is, you know, people parking their cars

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Speaker 2: in tunnels underground, moving around on the monorails and the

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Speaker 2: people movers and again just sort of this idyllic suburban

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Speaker 2: but like a new type of suburbia. And in fact,

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Speaker 2: what would eventually go to be called in the eighties

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Speaker 2: and the early eighties new urbanism, which was this you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll get well, I guess we can get to that

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Speaker 2: right now, huh.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, because they kind of prefigured it.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, for sure. New urban urbanism came along in

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Speaker 2: the early eighties, and it was based on this idea

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Speaker 2: of you know, nice looking architecture houses with you know,

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Speaker 2: where different people of different income levels would live very

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Speaker 2: walkable set up in a nice grid and you could

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Speaker 2: walk to the store and to the playground and to

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Speaker 2: work into school and it's super safe and it you know,

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Speaker 2: this was just sort of again that a deal like

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Speaker 2: idyllic vision of the future, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is what Celebration ended up being. It's

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Speaker 1: considered a new urbanist town. But again, like I think

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Speaker 1: Epcot opened in nineteen eighty two, right, yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: would be that was a full decade or so before

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Speaker 1: they even really started to think about building celebration. But

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Speaker 1: in the meantime, I have to say, I want to

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Speaker 1: give the obligatory shout out anytime we mentioned Epcot to

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Speaker 1: the I think it's on Dangerous Minds website about the

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Speaker 1: group of friends who hid out in the Horizon's ride

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Speaker 1: at Epcot in the late eighties and photo documented their

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Speaker 1: time there. It's really cool to check out. And then

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Speaker 1: one other thing there I found this year's back. But

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Speaker 1: they planned an airport, and there actually were flights that

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Speaker 1: went directly to Disney World for a very brief time,

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Speaker 1: I think in the early seventies. But on the landing strip,

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Speaker 1: you know rumble strips when you'd like start to go

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Speaker 1: off of the highway on the shoulder, it's got those

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Speaker 1: those ripples that like make it sound and wake you up.

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Speaker 1: They created a rumble strip on the runway for the

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Speaker 1: plane to run over that when you run over it,

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Speaker 1: and you can do this in your car. I think

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Speaker 1: at about forty five miles an hour it plays when

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Speaker 1: you wish upon a star as a rumble strip.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they have those in row in different countries and

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Speaker 2: it's not like a solid strip, but it just hits

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Speaker 2: various you know, tiny little bumps that caused musical notes.

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Speaker 1: That's neat. I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So back to it. So we've got Epcot in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, and by the mid eighties there was

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Speaker 1: a guy named Michael Eisner running this show, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should point out that, you know, one

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Speaker 2: of the big reasons that the original Epcot idea of

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Speaker 2: a like a lovable real space when the other direction

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Speaker 2: is because Walt Disney died in the interim, and after

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Speaker 2: that everything kind of changed and that's when it became

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Speaker 2: a theme park. But yeah, Eisner would come on board

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Speaker 2: in the early I guess mid eighties and eighty four,

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Speaker 2: big new urbanism guy was a big architecture guy, still is,

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Speaker 2: and things were like, this was the early to mid

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Speaker 2: eighties when Disney World was really really in a big,

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Speaker 2: big growth pattern I guess, you know, hotels and expanding

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Speaker 2: the park and all kinds of stuff. And they said,

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Speaker 2: all right, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna we're

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Speaker 2: gonna lop off part of this southeast corner of the

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Speaker 2: property on the east side of I four, and we're

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Speaker 2: just gonna reserve that for now think about what to

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Speaker 2: do with it. And they started to get a little

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Speaker 2: nervous that they were taking too long to think about

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Speaker 2: it and that the state may come in and be like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you're not developing it like you said you would. We're

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Speaker 2: taking that.

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Speaker 1: Back, right, So they decided to build a community. They

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Speaker 1: kind of took up that part of EPCOT that had

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Speaker 1: been cut off of the actual executed plan and see

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Speaker 1: what they could do with it. Right, So they in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five they started they started figuring out how

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Speaker 1: to do this, and they put out a request for bids.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what the last word is, but sure

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Speaker 1: like a brief, Yeah, a request for proposal RFP.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those those business things that we've never had to do.

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Speaker 1: No, thank god. And then for architects. Firms submitted their

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Speaker 1: ideas and I think two were selected to put together

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Speaker 1: the final plan, and the whole thing started to take

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Speaker 1: off from there, starting in nineteen eighty five. I saw

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Speaker 1: that as far as at the beginning, they were starting

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Speaker 1: to like kind of test names for the place, like

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Speaker 1: right off the bat and focus groups. Terrible names. Tell

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Speaker 1: them some of the names.

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Speaker 2: The Golden Oberon Jubilee. Okay, where do you live? You know,

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Speaker 2: Golden Oberon Jubilee or Godge goch what else?

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Speaker 1: Odyssey, Ventura, Horizon's Landmark or Oval?

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Speaker 2: How about Aurora, Solaris, Rainbow Majestic.

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Speaker 1: Seriously, they sound like CIA projects.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's ASRM, not to be confused to ASMR.

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Speaker 1: Right. I also saw Fantasia Jubilee in hyperionra Like they

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Speaker 1: were just I don't know what they were doing, Like,

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Speaker 1: how could you even waste money on a focus group

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Speaker 1: with these ideas?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: So finally they're like, well how about something shorter?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Horizons? No, they used that on the ride already a

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Speaker 1: Maritown that's a little on the nose. Yeah, somebody said

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Speaker 1: celebration and they went celebrations it man, celebrations it uh

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Speaker 1: And they fired that person so that they couldn't take

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Speaker 1: any credit for coming up with the idea, and they

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Speaker 1: told everybody Michael Eisner.

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Speaker 2: Did I'm surprised that they didn't literally name it like

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Speaker 2: Mouseville or something.

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Speaker 1: H Yeah, I mean, that's better than Odyssey Ventura Horizons.

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Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like a Horsey book like tweet.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's good stuff, all right. So they also, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was a good move for Disney at the time

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Speaker 2: because in the mid nineteen eighties had a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a black eye because of this tens of millions

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Speaker 2: of dollar infrastructure money that Disney didn't steal, but they

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Speaker 2: kind of kept, yeah, or used for themselves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, essentially, So, as we'll see in a second, Disney

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Speaker 1: was granted essentially the same status as a city or

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Speaker 1: a town. A municipality in Florida has a lot of

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Speaker 1: the same rights, and one of the things it can

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Speaker 1: do is apply for state money for its projects.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So Orange County apparently went to go apply for a

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Speaker 1: bunch of grants to help to build low income housing,

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Speaker 1: and they found that they were too late. That Disney

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Speaker 1: itself had hoovered up all of the money that was

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Speaker 1: earmarked for Central Florida fifty cities and towns had hoovered

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Speaker 1: up all of that almost sixty million dollars for its

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Speaker 1: own infrastructure. Yeah, Like, Central Florida was not happy about

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Speaker 1: this at all. Orange County had to actually go to

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Speaker 1: Disney and be like, can we borrow one point eight

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Speaker 1: million of that for this low income housing project? Disney like, sure, sure,

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Speaker 1: at eighty percent interest. So it was a big scandal.

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Speaker 1: So them announcing celebration was a big like, hey, look

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Speaker 1: over here kind of thing. Look, we're still a big

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Speaker 1: part of this, We're sinking money into this area. Don't

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Speaker 1: be mad at us kind of thing exactly.

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Speaker 2: And that sort of quasi governmental group that you spoke

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Speaker 2: of was the made a lot of news in the

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Speaker 2: past few years. The Reedy Creek Improvement District, you may

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Speaker 2: have if you're outside the state of Florida, you probably

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Speaker 2: never heard those four words until twenty twenty two when

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Speaker 2: the governor of the state of Florida got into a well,

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Speaker 2: got into a fight with Disney and dissolved it, and

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Speaker 2: it is now the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District. The

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Speaker 2: irons is on the oversight, Yeah, for sure. The irony

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Speaker 2: here is is the Reedy Creek Improvement District came about

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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven because Disney Company successfully lobbied to

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Speaker 2: get this whatever new designation, in large part on the

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Speaker 2: strength of that original Epcot plan. So they oh, really,

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Speaker 2: they gave them this because of this EPCOT. You know,

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Speaker 2: neighborhood idea bailed on that and then ended up being like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we got our own little mini government here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so, I mean like it. It was

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Speaker 1: a government up until very recently, like they could tax

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Speaker 1: residents and businesses in the area. They One of the

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Speaker 1: reasons why they were granted this was so that the

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Speaker 1: company could undertake things like infrastructure programs like providing sewer

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Speaker 1: and water and stuff like that, generating power they could

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Speaker 1: have as long as the improvement district goes around. They

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Speaker 1: were allowed by law to have built a Mickey Mouse

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Speaker 1: nuclear power plant if they'd wanted to. Like, they were

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Speaker 1: that legal. It was a city essentially, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a big deal to have that taken away.

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Speaker 1: But the upshot of that part was they were able

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Speaker 1: to use some money to help build celebration. But then secondly,

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Speaker 1: the people who live in the Reedy Creek Improvement District

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Speaker 1: are able to vote to decide what happens with Disney

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Speaker 1: World and stuff like that. But that amounts to less

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Speaker 1: than sixty people who live in that district, and they

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Speaker 1: all work for Disney, so they all vote the way

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Speaker 1: Disney wants them to vote well with celebration. They were

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Speaker 1: planning on bringing like twenty thousand families in and that

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Speaker 1: would really dilute Disney's vote about their own their own

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Speaker 1: theme park, their own business. So they were like, you

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Speaker 1: know what this is actually outside of Reedy Creek.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And by the way, you know that nuclear power

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Speaker 2: plant would have had mouse heres at the top of

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Speaker 2: the silos.

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Speaker 1: Do they have high voltage like towers and they're they're

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Speaker 1: in the shape of Mickey Mouse. Yeah, around that area.

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Speaker 1: It's really something to see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So here's what they did. Like you said, twenty

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Speaker 2: thousand families is what the original proposal was or was

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Speaker 2: it twenty thousand people twenty thousand residents? I think?

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Speaker 1: Oh was it? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Sorry, still it's a lot, yeah, a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: So they announced this publicly in nineteen ninety one as like, hey,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be open for business if you

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Speaker 2: want to essentially live in a Disney World like environment.

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Speaker 2: They held a lottery in nineteen ninety five for families

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Speaker 2: to buy plots. I think for the four hundred and

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Speaker 2: seventy four spots. They had about five thousand entries into

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Speaker 2: that lottery and it should be no surprise that most

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Speaker 2: of those people were like big Disney people that were thinking, like,

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Speaker 2: what could be better than living in like a Disney neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or essentially like a Disney Yeah, Disney neighborhood, like

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Speaker 1: in the every sense of the word. And the first

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Speaker 1: family moved in in nineteen ninety six, Larry and Terry

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Speaker 1: the Habers. Isn't that cute?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And a few months later Downtown was finally completed and

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Speaker 1: it was a big deal, like everybody knew about Celebration

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Speaker 1: and it was being built. I think Disney ultimately shelled

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Speaker 1: out about four billion dollars yeah, for the creation of Celebration.

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Speaker 2: In the eighties and nineties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess so in like late nineties dollars. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you want to take a break?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, gosh, we have to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. It was kind of rhetorical.

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Speaker 2: All right, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 3: Softly, jaw.

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Speaker 2: Soff. All right. So when they started mapping out what

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Speaker 2: they wanted Celebration to look like, they really reversed course

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Speaker 2: on the whole Epcot idea, which was again a little

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Speaker 2: more like Tomorrowland, and they were like, you know, what

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Speaker 2: we need to do is make it like Chuck was

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Speaker 2: talking about.

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Speaker 1: Frontier Land and Act one not quite.

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Speaker 2: Frontier Land, somewhere in the middle, which is to say,

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Speaker 2: you know, old small town America. Pick at Vince's. You know,

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Speaker 2: they talked about a new American town of block parties

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Speaker 2: and Fourth of July parades, spaghetti dinners and surprise, it

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Speaker 2: didn't say pancake breakfast, school bake sales, lollipops and fireflies

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Speaker 2: and a jar. So you know, they're selling and I'm

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Speaker 2: not making fun of this, they're there, but they were

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Speaker 2: selling an idea as much as they were selling houses.

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Speaker 1: They were selling a way of life. And they're like,

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Speaker 1: who cares If this is this idyllic past never actually existed,

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Speaker 1: We're going to make it exist here and you can

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Speaker 1: come live here. And if you like Disney, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: knock your socks off. And so they modeled it kind of.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I laughed because it reminds me of

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Speaker 1: the real Seymour Skinner when he comes back and claims

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Speaker 1: is his identity. Yeah, he becomes principal and he says

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Speaker 1: that he loves and bees and skin and knees. And

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Speaker 1: if that's corny, then corn me up. That's just kind

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Speaker 1: of what they reminded me of.

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Speaker 2: I remember apart from that episode where he said whoever

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Speaker 2: introduced him said, we would like to introduce the real

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Speaker 2: principal Seymour Skinner, Principal Seymore Skinner or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Superintendent Chalmers, So that for sure. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I don't remember where I was headed with that point. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that they modeled it on Main Street, USA, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you first come into Disney World, like super cute pastel

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Speaker 1: storefronts with wholesome stores behind them, just like everything's kind

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Speaker 1: of close together so you can walk and feel like

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Speaker 1: you're part of a community. That's what they went with.

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Speaker 1: And apparently Walt and Roy Disney were kind of obsessed

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Speaker 1: with that turn to the century, turn of the twentieth

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Speaker 1: century America because they spent about five years in a

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Speaker 1: town called Marceline, Missouri, the Disney family did from nineteen

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Speaker 1: oh six to nineteen eleven, and that's kind of where

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Speaker 1: they were inspired to love that kind of life. That's

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to recreate with Celebration for sure.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, they're they're literal, like municipal seal or whatever. I

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Speaker 2: guess that's what you call it. Right, Yeah, municipal seal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah was a girl riding a bike with a little

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Speaker 2: dog chasing her and a literal picket fence and a

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Speaker 2: tree and it's just you know, it's that that's what

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Speaker 2: they were selling. They hired, you know, branding specialist. They

399
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Speaker 2: hired some really high profile architects and a lot of

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Speaker 2: the you know, I'm not saying again it sounds like

401
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Speaker 2: I'm like picking on it, but a lot of these

402
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Speaker 2: buildings were really cool. Like that that post office, the

403
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Speaker 2: design of it is super awesome. That that Spanish style

404
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: hospital is beautiful. They built a googie cinema that a

405
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Speaker 2: mc ran if you remember our googie architecture like it was,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's some cool looking stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and just a no that the Celebration City seal

408
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Speaker 1: that you described. Olivia helped us out with this and

409
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Speaker 1: she described it as aggressively idyllic. Yeah, a boy, I

410
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Speaker 1: think that it casculated perfectly right. Yeah, But yeah, those

411
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Speaker 1: buildings downtown were all designed. Each one was designed by

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Speaker 1: a very very famous, very well respected architect. Each one

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Speaker 1: had its own architect like Philip Johnson, the guy who

414
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Speaker 1: designed the glass house, designed the bank at Celebration, like

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Speaker 1: it was. This place was a big deal when it

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Speaker 1: first opened. The thing is, well, I'm not even going

417
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Speaker 1: to spoil it yet, you can you can just wait.

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Speaker 1: So back to what they had. One of the other

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Speaker 1: things that it touted was an experimental public school. Yeah,

420
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Speaker 1: that house K through twelve. There's no other school like

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Speaker 1: it in the area. Normally they have like a grade school,

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Speaker 1: maybe a middle school, and then a high school. This

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Speaker 1: was everything kindergarteners to seniors in high school, all going

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Speaker 1: to school in the same building.

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Speaker 2: That's right, which you know other people have done. That's

426
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Speaker 2: not the most radical thing world, but it is radical

427
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Speaker 2: at the time in the mid nineties to have a

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Speaker 2: public school that had such a sort of progressive model

429
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Speaker 2: of education. You can go to any you throw a

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Speaker 2: rock in Atlanta and you'll hit some hippie dippy private

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Speaker 2: school that does this kind of stuff on a very

432
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Speaker 2: small scale. But to try to do a K twelve

433
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Speaker 2: school where you have these new progressive teaching methods where

434
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Speaker 2: you don't really give grades, but you give assessments, where

435
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Speaker 2: you have combined classrooms, which Ruby School has combined classrooms,

436
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 2: there's a lot of benefits to that. Yeah, it's like

437
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: it's an awesome, proven thing, but it's a class of

438
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 2: you know, twelve or thirteen kids with two teachers. That's all.

439
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: At one point they had eighty kids to a class

440
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 2: and two to three teachers in some of these big classes.

441
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: Eighty kids just all going nuts at the same time.

442
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, not to give away kind of where we're headed,

443
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 2: but the idea was progressive and sort of very forward

444
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: thinking at the time for public school.

445
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: It definitely was, for sure, and that attracted a lot

446
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: of people too, Like they're like, not only are we

447
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: going to give you like a community to live in

448
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: like this, your kids are going to be experimented on

449
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: by Walt Disney Corporation drink this. They also had Celebration Place,

450
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: which was an office complex because one of the hallmarks

451
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: of new urbanism is that you work nearby your home,

452
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: like you can essentially walk or bike to work, like

453
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: your community is basically your whole world.

454
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

455
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: They also had retail stores. There was a Wolfgang Bakery

456
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: still there today. I think it was one of the

457
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: original stores and it's still there, which is impressive. But

458
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: one of the things that they definitely did, at least

459
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: at first, if you were a chain, you could not

460
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: get a foothold into this community. You also couldn't put

461
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: billboards up like it was very strictly controlled who could come.

462
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: And they definitely favored small, independently owned businesses. And if

463
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: it was a chain, it would be a regional chain

464
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: at best at tops.

465
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can get on board with some of that stuff.

466
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: Sure, for sure, it's not true anymore. There's a Starbucks there, right,

467
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: I think there's a Starbucks absolutely everywhere, you know.

468
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: True. And I did see that one of the videos.

469
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: You know, I got a little bit of a chuckle.

470
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: So if you decided to move there and build a

471
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 2: house there, you couldn't just say, like, jeez, you know

472
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: what do I want to build? What kind of house

473
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 2: really fits me? They would hand you a book of

474
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: about seventy pages thick that said, here's one of six

475
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: style houses. You can build in one of one, two

476
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 2: through four, five different colors, and you're going to have

477
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 2: a front porch, and you're going to have that picket fence.

478
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: At least at first. You can't park your car in

479
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: the driveway at first, you got to park that car

480
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: out back. You got to keep it up. Don't even

481
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: think about parking a boat in your driveway and some

482
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: of the stuff that I've seen online. I tried to confirm,

483
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: like one absolutely, but I couldn't. But I also saw

484
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: there was one hundred and sixty page just sort of

485
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 2: rule book for living there, Yeah, including that you every

486
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: house had to have a hidden Mickey mouse somewhere in it.

487
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: Mm hmm is that true. Yeah, I saw that as well.

488
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: I didn't read the book itself, but yes, I saw

489
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: that referenced as well from some legitimate source or other.

490
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 2: And it did see somewhere that you could park one

491
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: car in the driveway and everything else had to be

492
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: around back. So I'm not really sure the rules there.

493
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 2: But what about those lamp posts.

494
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: Okay, so if you went downtown, depending on the time

495
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: of year, the lamp posts might be shooting out leaf

496
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: shaped confetti on you that would be in the fall.

497
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: Typically sometimes they would also shoot out soap side or

498
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: shaving cream snow, so it would snow on you, and

499
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: I guess you'd get soapy as you were walking to work.

500
00:27:59,280 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

501
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: I also said that they also they imported leaves and

502
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: fakes know as well. At times. I didn't see that elsewhere,

503
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: but I just saw it in one place. But it

504
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: was like that kind of place. Also, wherever you're walking

505
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: down town, they're playing like forties and fifties, like hits music, pop,

506
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: praisic sure, sure, and then and other places they'll have

507
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: hidden speakers that play recorded bird.

508
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: Song bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum

509
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 2: bum bum bum bum.

510
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: And I think here's this is where we've reached the

511
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: point where it's starting to become understandable why outsiders are

512
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: like this is psychotic.

513
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: It gets a little creepy sounding. Yeah, something out of

514
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: a movie, you know.

515
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: Right, it's so artificial that there's almost no room for

516
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: nature or reality to come in. And yeah, like are

517
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: there actual birds there or are they been driven away

518
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: by the bird song? Who knows? Like, I think that's why.

519
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: And people often compare it to the neighborhood from the

520
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: Stepford Wives.

521
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, or that one last year or a couple of

522
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: years ago, Bavarium No, the one with uh oh god,

523
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: Nick Cral's the only person I can think of the

524
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: Senate and he's not the lead Harry Styles and.

525
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: Uh oh, don't worry Darling.

526
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of thing.

527
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also the Truman Show. It gets compared to that.

528
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's interesting because the Truman Show was filmed

529
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: in Seaside, Florida, and Seaside is also like a very

530
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: almost textbook example of a new urbanist Florida beachtown.

531
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Seaside is a little more of a

532
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: real place though, right, Like, yeah, they don't have like

533
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: fake bird song and stuff like that.

534
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, they don't have that. And also I'm

535
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: not I don't believe.

536
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 3: So.

537
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: One of the other things about Celebration that we'll see

538
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: is they have that one hundred and sixty page rule book.

539
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: It's it's enforced, like if your lawn goes, you know,

540
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: over the allowed height I think it's three or three

541
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: and a half inch, you'll get a letter from the

542
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: HOA saying cut your lawn. Or if you do have

543
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: that boat in your driveway, they'll be like, you got

544
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: to move that boat. You can get a letter if

545
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: you take your Christmas decorations down one day too late,

546
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: like everyone takes their Christmas decorations down by a certain date.

547
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like the HOA is very strict

548
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: and if you like rules and you like not having

549
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: to go tell your neighbors to take their stupid Christmas

550
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: lights down because it's March. You would love to live

551
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: at celebration. I think that's the appeal for a lot

552
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: of people.

553
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So if you're going to have a

554
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: new urbanist society or neighborhood, one of the you know,

555
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: kind of main tenants of that is like different kinds

556
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: of people can live here, of different ethnicities and in

557
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: different financial categories, financial categories, pay groups. What would you

558
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: call that?

559
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: Would I would say different folks from different strokes.

560
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I don't know why I couldn't think of

561
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: a very simple term there, but so early on early

562
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: pay categories. Economic diversity is what we're looking for, is

563
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: what they said at first. And they did advertise to

564
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: you know, black and Latino families. They did have some

565
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: African American employees in the sales office. But you know,

566
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: if you're going to do something like that, sometimes you

567
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: need to, like and this happens all the time in cities,

568
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: might subsidize some of the housing if you want to

569
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: really bring in true diversity. And instead they took close

570
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: to a million bucks and move people out of there

571
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 2: that they didn't want there to other places.

572
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: They said, you live over here, we're not going to

573
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: build anything here. We'll build some low income housing, but

574
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: we're not going to do it in Celebration. You stay

575
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: outside of Celebration. Yes, the racial diversity push was a valid, valiant,

576
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: i should say, attempt, but it became pretty clear pretty

577
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: quickly that it didn't work. By the time the two

578
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: thousand census came around, it revealed that Celebration, Florida in

579
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: two thousand was eighty eight percent white, and that was

580
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: like thirty thirty percent higher than the surrounding county the

581
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: rate for the surrounding county, and a lot of black

582
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: families were priced out, Like if you moved to Celebration,

583
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: you were paying about thirty percent more than you would

584
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: for a comparable house out in Osiola County outside of Celebration.

585
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: It's just much more expensive to live there, and traditionally

586
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: black families have less family wealth to buy a house

587
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: that's thirty percent more expensive. And then as the place

588
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: became whiter and whiter, fewer and fewer black families felt

589
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: comfortable living there, So it just became more and more white,

590
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: until more and more Hispanic families started moving in and

591
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: kind of diluted the racial makeup a little more.

592
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you want to feel if you want

593
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: to either have a laugh or have a cry about

594
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: home prices these days. The average price of a home

595
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: in Celebration Florida in those earth early years was one

596
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty four thousand dollars, which was twenty percent

597
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: higher than the complete national average. That's nuts, man, Yeah,

598
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: the good old days.

599
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: I saw that. Now it's something like I think six

600
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy seven is the national no, the median average,

601
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: the medium price for celebration I don't know about nationally. Yeah, man,

602
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty grand.

603
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: And that was twenty percent higher. That's not even You

604
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: can't even lose like one hundred grand, I guess.

605
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: As a down payment these days.

606
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, good luck with that.

607
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: Crazy. So okay, back to it, Chuck, I think it's

608
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: about here. Well, should we take another break or no?

609
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.

610
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: Okay. I was not expecting that, but here we go.

611
00:33:44,680 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: Everybody an stoftly jaw.

612
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Chuck. Now we get to, since we are technically

613
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: a media outlet, the darker side of Celebration Florida.

614
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you can't not talk about it because

615
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: it was a situation where Disney rushed the project allegedly,

616
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: and these third party contractors sometimes were under the gun

617
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: to get these houses built, and what you ended up

618
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: with was collapsing front porches. Apparently like seventy of the

619
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 2: houses needed new roofs, their foundations were cracking, plumbing was leaking,

620
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: and not necessarily every single house, but it seemed like

621
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: a lot of them were poorly built.

622
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: They were poorly built, so the construction was shoddy from

623
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: the outset, especially when Disney wasn't directly involved in the construction. Right,

624
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: that's a huge, huge deal that will come and to

625
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: play a little bit down the road. The school itself

626
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: very quickly, the parents were like, I don't know about

627
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: not assigning my kids homework for the entire year or

628
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: telling them what books they should go read. And they're

629
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: not even giving them grades. What is this? Everybody wins

630
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: on their report card. This doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

631
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: So the parents revolted very quickly and they're like, no,

632
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: we're not doing this. We want to make this more traditional,

633
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: and eventually they lopped off the high school from it

634
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: built another high school in celebration, but it was a

635
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: public high school open to other areas around celebration, not

636
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: just celebration itself.

637
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also saw it was pretty much a nightmare

638
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 2: for the teachers and staff. Yeah, and the principal quit

639
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: after a year, along with about twenty five percent of

640
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 2: the staff. It's after year one, and it was you know,

641
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: when you've got classrooms at size and it's especially with

642
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 2: a new kind of structure, it was supposedly pretty chaotic.

643
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: Again, eighty children grades. I think they had grades like

644
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: three to five in the same classroom. Eighty of those kids,

645
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: and you're one teacher trying to teach all these kids.

646
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: I can't. I mean, how do they not just look

647
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: at that paper and be like, this is a bad idea.

648
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the idea with mixed grades now is

649
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: and may have been then, but that's probably too many.

650
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: Is you mix two grades and one year your kid

651
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: is the younger and you get good help from older

652
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: buddies and it really socially kind of helps. And then

653
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 2: the next year you the older, and then that you

654
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: are the more of the mentor type, and that all

655
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: plays out in the end to just, you know, socially

656
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: and emotionally pretty great. But again, with eighty kids, it's.

657
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: Just tough, right, that's my ultimate point. What you're describing

658
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: sounds awesome. And I also saw that one of the

659
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: reasons for putting grades together in the same I think

660
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: they call them neighborhoods or whatever, is because kids progress

661
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: at different rates, some slower than others, and so if

662
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: you put a bunch of grades together, those kids who

663
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: are going to progress faster can progress faster, and the

664
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: kids who are going to take their own time can

665
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: take their own time. That makes sense to me too. Again,

666
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: it's the eighty kids in a single classroom. That's just

667
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: that in and of itself is nuts. What about crime,

668
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: because this is where everybody's like.

669
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: Mm yeah, yeah. And here's where parents, You know, if

670
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: you want to not listen to these next five minutes

671
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: with your kids, it might be advisable because there has

672
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: been some crime, just like any place in the world.

673
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: What they didn't do was build some huge wall around

674
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 2: this town, and you would still even have crime, sure,

675
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 2: because that's just what happens. But in nineteen eighty eight

676
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: there was a I'm sorry ninety eight, there was a

677
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 2: home invasion where a couple was bound and gagged and

678
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 2: robbed in their house.

679
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: It wasn't Terry and Larry, was it?

680
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: I don't think, so this was a pretty big deal.

681
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: In November twenty ten, the first murder in celebration happened

682
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: when Matteo Patrick Geovandito, a fifty year old retired school teacher,

683
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: was living alone and was found dead, strangled with a

684
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 2: shoelace and you know, had some acts work done on him.

685
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: And that's horrific enough, but then it comes out later

686
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: that his killer, David Israel Xenon Marillo, was there to

687
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 2: wash his car and then brought inside drugged with a beer,

688
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: and when he woke up, Matteo Patrick Giovendido was on

689
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: top of him sexually assaulting him. And this guy went

690
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: nuts and killed him.

691
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: He did, And the guy's story sounded a little far

692
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: fetched until I think two years later, a couple of

693
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: reporters from the Daily Beasts it must have been tipped

694
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: off because they started tracking down former students, reading depositions,

695
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: looking at court filings and found that Geovandido had a

696
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: long history of sexually abusing his students, even going on

697
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: like trips with them abroad, like just him and a

698
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: student or two. Yeah, So like that doesn't excuse him

699
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: being bludgeoned to death with an axe, but it definitely

700
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: backs up the dude's story, you know. And I even

701
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: saw in a I think an article right after it happened.

702
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: I think that Marillo was quoted as saying he got

703
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: what he deserved, Like this guy been arrested and he

704
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: was telling the press he got what he deserved when

705
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: I killed him with an axe.

706
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: He he got a second degree murdered life sentence for that.

707
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: And also, to just to be clear, if we weren't

708
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: the victim was not a teacher in Celebration. He had

709
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: retired by that time.

710
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 1: Oh, good point, good point.

711
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

712
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: A couple of days later it went kind of buck

713
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: wild and celebration again.

714
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: Right, Was this the the swat standoff or the Okay,

715
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: I didn't know if that was the family homicide. No,

716
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: I guess we'll get to both of them.

717
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all of that's right. No, okay, So the

718
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: family homicide was ten years later. This was a few

719
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: days after Giovandido's body was found in twenty ten. There

720
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: was a guy named Craig Fouchet who was a Celebration resident,

721
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: and he barricaded himself in his house and started firing

722
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: at the cops who came.

723
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember when this happened actually, oh really yeah,

724
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: oh yeah, it was all over the news. It was

725
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: a fourteen hour standoff. Eventually the police, you know, going

726
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: there with tear gas and everything, and found that he

727
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 2: had already taken his own life and it was you know,

728
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 2: one of the situations where he was going bankrupt, going

729
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: through divorce, foreclosure, all that kind of thing.

730
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's called high risk for a self inflicted injury

731
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: for sure.

732
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. And not to dwell on the crimes, but there

733
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: was one last ghastly thing you said, I think Tenure

734
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, when a man murdered his wife and

735
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 2: three kids and dog and was living with their decomposing

736
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: bodies when the police caught up to him.

737
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was around Christmas, right, and they didn't find

738
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: it until January sometime.

739
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very grizzly and sad.

740
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing that people are like, see,

741
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: you can't get away from it, and that stuff happens elsewhere.

742
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: It's just when you put it in the context of

743
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: a place that has been created to not have that

744
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, it just is that much more ghastly,

745
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, absolutely, So back to there were a

746
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: few other things that weren't crimes but still kind of

747
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: gave Celebration a strange reputation. There was something called the

748
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: Celebration Death Pond. There was a weird curve in a

749
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: road at an intersection, and it wasn't clear which way

750
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: you should go, and if you didn't turn the right way,

751
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: you would drive right into this fifteen foot retention pond.

752
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: And that happened to three teenagers who just disappeared one

753
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: day and weren't found for nine months, and they were

754
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: finally found in that pond. They eventually fixed it, but

755
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: not before it Celebration Death Pond became a bit of

756
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: a moniker on the internet.

757
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they built a wall with flashing lights. Yeah, you

758
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: probably shouldn't dead into a lake with the road going

759
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: left and right like on those hard curves. Another reason

760
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 2: it's called the death pond is when they were down

761
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 2: there diving and looking and found this car, they found

762
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: four other cars down there, no, and they're like, oh,

763
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 2: there's turns out this has happened before.

764
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: I didn't see that. Oh yeah, I saw there was

765
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: as I was researching that I found an article from

766
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: Oklahoma where they found the car of three teenagers who'd

767
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: gone missing in nineteen seventy and they found it like

768
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: forty years later, and they found another car with a

769
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: group of three people that had gone missing in nineteen

770
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: sixty and ten years apart. These cars ended up right

771
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: next to each other in this lake.

772
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 3: Wow.

773
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: I know, it's just so strange, But I did not

774
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 1: know that about Celebration death pond.

775
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: That's crazy, all right, So we should get back to

776
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 2: Celebration itself. And kind of happened with the town and

777
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: the HOA there because in two thousand and four, Disney

778
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: sold the downtown town Center in the business district, which

779
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: was twenty one buildings, nine commercial, ten mixed use, and

780
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 2: two residential, to a private firm called Lexin Capital L

781
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: E XI N. And all of a sudden, because they

782
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 2: had all those different buildings, they were the majority vote

783
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: in the HOA. So, all of a sudden, if you

784
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: lived in Celebration, Florida, you lived in this neighborhood, you

785
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 2: essentially had zero say over anything that went on there

786
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: because LExEN owned the vote and owned the HOA essentially.

787
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's bad enough. I mean, that's just a

788
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: situation right for abuse. But the Lexin is well known

789
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: around Celebration for being the opposite of transparent. Yeah, and

790
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: so over the course of a good decade or more,

791
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: this homeowners association started to notice like lex and Capital

792
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: wasn't responding to any calls for repairs. And remember we

793
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: said Celebration was built really quickly, often by third party

794
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: construction companies, often very shoddily. And the townhouses, the residential

795
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: stuff downtown that lex and Capital bought were really showing

796
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: signs of disrepair and nobody was showing up to repair it.

797
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: And because of the structure of the ownership, the people

798
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: who lived in the condominiums only owned the interiors, so

799
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: even if they wanted to pay somebody to come fix

800
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: the roof, they couldn't legally do that. That's just nuts,

801
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: it is, but it's common with condos in particular. They

802
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: but normally the people who are in charge of that

803
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: will come and have the roof repaired. But when they

804
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: finally sued lex and Capital, they found all sorts of

805
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: terrible stuff had been going on and that they were

806
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 1: in big trouble. And now Lexin was saying, we're going

807
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: to assess fifteen or ten or fifteen million dollars to

808
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: make these repairs. Even though you guys have been paying

809
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: into THEA your HOA dues, which are meant to keep

810
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: up with those repairs. We're saying you owe ten million

811
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: more and we don't know what happened to the money

812
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: that you put in.

813
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they were saying, you haven't been paying

814
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: your dues and they were like, no, we have. You

815
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: can't just say that, like where's the money we paid?

816
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 2: And I don't even know, like has this even been resolved?

817
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: No, as far as I know, it's not, and it's

818
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: going to take a long time to unravel. One of

819
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: the things I saw is that they in court proceedings,

820
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: they found out that LExEN had not once but twice

821
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: refinanced the mortgage that it had on its its holdings

822
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: in celebration and took out like twenty million and then

823
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: another fifteen million in equity. So they were sucking the money,

824
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: the value out of the town and then not putting

825
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: a nickel back into it to keep it up.

826
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Flash forward a couple of years, and all of

827
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: a sudden, we're a country in the middle of a

828
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 2: housing crisis and foreclosure crisis, and between two thousand and

829
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 2: nine and twenty ten, one and twenty residents of Celebration

830
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: had to go through foreclosure. This is compared to one

831
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 2: in forty eight for Florida overall. At the time AMC

832
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: shut down that theater. I don't think we mentioned that

833
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: they're cool, giggy theater. They were like, hey, no, sexy

834
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: shoot them ups. We're only going to show like really

835
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: clean movies. And people turns out like going and seeing

836
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: sexy shoot them ups. And they're like, we can't keep

837
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: running Pleasantville over and over in the Truman Show.

838
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: They're like pleasant Hills to dirty and suggestive.

839
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: So they see, at least for their part, got out

840
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 2: of that theater and it shut down.

841
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know what's going on with the theater

842
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: right now, if somebody some independent persons running it or not,

843
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: or if it's just abandoned.

844
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: I bet you it's open again, but that's just a.

845
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: Guess I would hope. So. So, despite all this, and

846
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: despite the troubles of the people living in the downtown

847
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: area with lex and Capital, outside of downtown, it seems

848
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: to be pretty much happiness generally among the owners at Celebration.

849
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: I think the initial almost crazy expectations from what celebration

850
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: would be and could offer has been replaced by a

851
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: little more realistic understanding.

852
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: But I think it's settled in.

853
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a great way to put it. But the

854
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: people there like, yeah, it's not just some amazing perfect place,

855
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: but it's also not the psychotic Stepford neighborhood that you

856
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: guys are making it. It's a really really nice place

857
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: to live and we love living here, so leave us alone.

858
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: And that seems to be kind of the general consensus

859
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: of the people living in the bubble from what I

860
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: can tell.

861
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, if it achieved its new urbanism goals,

862
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: it did in certain ways. They do have that town

863
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 2: center and you can walk to a lot of stuff,

864
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: you can bike to a lot of stuff. There are

865
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 2: a lot of playgrounds and things like that. But there

866
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: are also a lot of cars. And beyond that, it

867
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: did not hit the criteria of things like off you know,

868
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 2: employment opportunities for people who actually live there to work there,

869
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 2: affordable housing, that kind of thing. Like you said, the

870
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: Latino and Hispanic population increased, I think to about sixteen percent.

871
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: They're down to seventy two percent non Hispanic white population now,

872
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: and I think about sixty percent of the residents own

873
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: their own house, and like you can't rest or renters.

874
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 2: But even if you own a house, like there are

875
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: no airbnbs or vrbos, like you can't rent a house

876
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: shop from there.

877
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: Way yeah, no, it's literally laughable the idea. Yes, you

878
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: got anything else about Celebration.

879
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: Florida, got nothing else?

880
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: I've got one more thing. If you like this and

881
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 1: like to hear us talking about Celebration Florida, you can

882
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: also go listen to us talking about Celebration Florida with

883
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: our friends over at the Big Flop.

884
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 3: Right.

885
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we were guests on the show. They pitched Celebration

886
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 2: Florida because you know, the idea of the show is

887
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 2: things that flopped, and we thought we would do our

888
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 2: version to acquaint ourselves more with it, you know, before

889
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: we recorded with them. I think THEIRS is going to

890
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: come out first though, right.

891
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, we said, wow, what a coincidence,

892
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: We're about to do an episode on Celebration Florida.

893
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but check it out.

894
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun, Yeah, super fun. And

895
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: since Chuck and I agreed that being on the Big

896
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: Flop was a lot of fun. Obviously, that's unlockable listener mail.

897
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: Hey guys, my family and I completed our annual road

898
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: trip summer vacation. On the way back home, I was

899
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: a loss for what to listen to on the twelve

900
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 2: hour drive that was suitable for me and my two boys,

901
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: Liam and Nathan, teenagers.

902
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: Liam and Neeson.

903
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 2: Liam and Neeson. He's got a very particular set of skills,

904
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 2: that child. That's when Liam asked if I ever had

905
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 2: ever heard of stuff you should know. Not much of

906
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 2: a podcast listener, but and hadn't heard of the show,

907
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: but it turned it on and we listened the entire

908
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 2: way back. We learned about whistling, Wikipedia, Guinness Records. I

909
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: was about to say they just went straight back. Actually

910
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: I think they did. Wore the World's Panic, Dumb Criminals, hitchhiking,

911
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: Fort Knox, Peanuts, Alien abductions, Multitasking, Star Wars Christmas Special. Okay,

912
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: they're jumping around a bit, which was Liam's personal favorite.

913
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 2: Was the history of the board game Clue.

914
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good one. Liam agreed.

915
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 2: We enjoyed learning about the kill Dozer and watched the

916
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 2: documentary tread to see that thing in action. Since getting

917
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: turned onto the show, I can't help but listen to

918
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: y'all even when I'm driving around town running errands. I

919
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 2: appreciate the knowledge for you guys for giving me and

920
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: my voice along with something to bond over. And that

921
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: is from Paul Newfield in Louisiana.

922
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Thanks Paul, Thanks Liam for turning your dad

923
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: on to Stuff you Should Know. We appreciate a big time.

924
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: The check is in the mail.

925
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 2: Yes, and Nathan and Nisan.

926
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 3: Yes.

927
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: If you want to be like Liam and Nathan and

928
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: Paul and you want to get in touch with us

929
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 1: to say how much you like what we do, we

930
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: love hearing that kind of stuff. You can send it

931
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 1: via email to stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

932
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

933
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

934
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.