Speaker 1: R and B Money. We are thanks take Valanti. We
Speaker 1: are the authority on all things R and B. Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, what's going on? I am tanked Valentine, And
Speaker 1: this is the R and B Money Podcast, the authority
Speaker 1: on all things R and B, all things, all things.
Speaker 1: You heard them not playing whatever They encompassed a big
Speaker 1: word again, Say it again, people, income encompass. You know
Speaker 1: what the is going on? And today on the R
Speaker 1: and B Money Podcast, we have singer singer songwriter grab
Speaker 1: me award winning song list. Can we say that? Is it? Okay?
Speaker 1: We say that? Okay? And and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say more importantly, but I want to say just as
Speaker 1: important I would.
Speaker 2: Say, I would say the line advocate activists, activists, Yeah,
Speaker 2: for us period.
Speaker 1: Tiffany Fred, come on in the building, Come on, come on, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 1: You are in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah I am.
Speaker 1: You are not playing any games.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not letting up.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna have to figure out how to stand
Speaker 1: beside you on a bunch of this because it's needed. Right.
Speaker 1: So before we get to that, we like to start.
Speaker 3: At the beginning and how you get into this thing?
Speaker 1: How did you Tiffany Fred, when did somebody say to you?
Speaker 1: When did you say to yourself? Nice? Oh? I got it?
Speaker 2: So I started writing. I wrote my first song in college.
Speaker 2: I was nineteen. I was randomly surrounded by a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of people at this community college in Jersey that
Speaker 2: were musicians. I had a friend named Blair and he
Speaker 2: was just like, have you ever thought of turning your
Speaker 2: poems into songs? And I was like no. We went
Speaker 2: to the auditorium. He plays piano, and he just like
Speaker 2: challenged me to write a song with him. Did you
Speaker 2: guys write on the the you wrote?
Speaker 1: Oh? We wrote okay?
Speaker 2: So y'all wrote? Oh? So there was a song on
Speaker 2: that project called Midnight? Did y'all write Midnight? Was that
Speaker 2: Underdogs that album specifically, and Midnight's that song specifically? I
Speaker 2: was like, damn, I fucking love this record, Like who
Speaker 2: did this song? Like I want to work with them?
Speaker 2: Like who did this? And so I looked in the
Speaker 2: credits and it was Harvey and Damon and you know
Speaker 2: whoever else? I think maybe Steve wrote on that song.
Speaker 2: Google the Underdogs and I found their website and there
Speaker 2: was like full CSI Oh, yeah, really good. I could
Speaker 2: an't what I learned. I didn't realize then, but I'm
Speaker 2: really good at connecting the dots and being like, I'm
Speaker 2: really persistent, So like you could tell me no, but
Speaker 2: that don't mean I'm not gonna ask you again. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna just ask you another time. So I hit the
Speaker 2: contact page and everybody's face popped up. I don't know
Speaker 2: who any these people are, so I just clicked a
Speaker 2: couple of them and I sent them my little demos
Speaker 2: that I was recording in Brooklyn, and he hit me
Speaker 2: back and he was just like, Yo, if you ever
Speaker 2: in La, come fuck with us.
Speaker 3: And I was like, all right, that was your invitation.
Speaker 4: What I was like, look, these are the people who
Speaker 4: write so cause then it was like once I figured
Speaker 4: out that they did Midnight, then I just went on
Speaker 4: a whole went down a rabbit hole, and it turned
Speaker 4: out they did all these songs that I loved.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, damn, I want to work
Speaker 2: with them, like you know, And so I just shot
Speaker 2: my shot and cold emailed and touch hit me back.
Speaker 2: And so I like begged my parents to come to La.
Speaker 2: They're like, all right, you know, whatever, help me out.
Speaker 2: I come out here. And my grandmom was like, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, you got some cousins in LA. I got
Speaker 2: some cousins out there. So she set me up with
Speaker 2: my cousins, and I didn't know shit. I met my
Speaker 2: cousins more people to watch over me. My cousins was
Speaker 2: my mom's age, so it was like, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. I was like, yeah, like I
Speaker 2: don't you.
Speaker 1: Come in here.
Speaker 2: You don't pay no bills, you don't have no money.
Speaker 2: She was right, I didn't. I will never forget that.
Speaker 2: Like I first time I went to the studio, and
Speaker 2: that was like the first studio that I had ever
Speaker 2: been in that was like a for real studio that
Speaker 2: wasn't like in somebody's closet, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And I just I'm like, wow, these are all the
Speaker 2: plaques at all the songs that I fucking love. This
Speaker 2: is fucking crazy. And I mean, I froze. I didn't
Speaker 2: write shit. I was so scared. I was like, I mean,
Speaker 2: they were like, get this girl out of here with
Speaker 2: the fuck is.
Speaker 3: She could with anything.
Speaker 2: I was pet because I didn't really I mean, I
Speaker 2: was a green songwriter. I wasn't around anybody yet, so
Speaker 2: this was like James and Rob Knox and like whatever.
Speaker 2: And so I remember like going like seeing James like
Speaker 2: freestyle in the booth for the first time and being.
Speaker 3: Lark Oh yeah, yeah, nigga, I.
Speaker 2: Can't do that.
Speaker 3: I got a different type of like.
Speaker 2: I can't do well. And but everybody was doing that, him,
Speaker 2: Steve Luke, like everybody was like all right to going
Speaker 2: on to my and I was just just like, first
Speaker 2: of all, I don't know how to sing for real,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not confident in my voice, like I just got.
Speaker 3: These are all the things that are going through your
Speaker 3: mind as a young writer, yeah, in this industry, because
Speaker 3: that I would love for you to expound. I mean,
Speaker 3: you're actually already talking about it. But this is this
Speaker 3: is something that's very important because when I first came
Speaker 3: to LA, I went to a studio. I didn't freeze
Speaker 3: because I didn't I did end up doing no writing
Speaker 3: with him, but it made me throw away my songs mmmm,
Speaker 3: because it was the first time I had walked into
Speaker 3: a room and I felt like my music wasn't good enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you was in a I was in a
Speaker 2: room with profession.
Speaker 3: I was in the big league.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were like I'm a rookie, and then
Speaker 2: you realized you.
Speaker 3: Was a rookie, and I completely understand that. I was like,
Speaker 3: oh ship, and your situation obviously was different because you
Speaker 3: were there for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was really kind of a fly on the wall
Speaker 3: guy when I first, you know, my first trip to
Speaker 3: l A as a as an adult, and I'm just
Speaker 3: listening to all these songs that these guys are playing.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, damn, you like my shit. Don't sound
Speaker 2: like that, don't That's how I felt too.
Speaker 1: It's not that.
Speaker 2: People like people's backgrounds. People's like sad.
Speaker 3: Yes, sonics sh just was cleaning, and that's something that
Speaker 3: the underdog we were known for. Yeah, I was sonically
Speaker 3: it's crazy we top two, maybe not too sonically sonically
Speaker 3: conically right, there were people with great records, but sonically
Speaker 3: it was different. It was just different. Even even something
Speaker 3: like that worth that good sounded great. Yes, yes, you've
Speaker 3: hit on the fact that I wouldn't ever your ass
Speaker 3: can sing now.
Speaker 2: I couldn't sing then, like I and to be unest well, yeah,
Speaker 2: and to be it was confidence, but also like I
Speaker 2: think there's a really big difference between studio singers and
Speaker 2: live singers. So I didn't come up singing right. So
Speaker 2: and I learned how to sing in the studio. I
Speaker 2: learned how to sing through auto tune and reverb and
Speaker 2: all these things. It's like singing with makeup on. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Like, it's not you're you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like it's and I feel like it's like.
Speaker 3: So should I start telling niggas they got too much
Speaker 3: makeup on?
Speaker 2: For real?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Like makeup. It's like, man, you're it's covering up. It's
Speaker 2: covering up. Like I feel like like AutoTunes specifically, right,
Speaker 2: I feel like can really cover up the character in
Speaker 2: somebody's voice, Like you can really miss, like you know,
Speaker 2: trying to be perfect, you can really miss. It took
Speaker 2: me a long time, on top of the fact that
Speaker 2: I used to have people tell me I couldn't sing right,
Speaker 2: so like why are you singing this demo? Like what
Speaker 2: are you doing? Yeah, it was it was rough in
Speaker 2: the beginning. Like I definitely had like people discourage me
Speaker 2: about singing, and so I was never like no, like
Speaker 2: I didn't And you know what, I remember this one time.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if she ever remember this, but
Speaker 2: I remember I saw a Brandy at her at the Underdogs.
Speaker 2: I ran into her in the kitchen and she was
Speaker 2: like do you sing?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: How were you? Like, I'm like do I? And also
Speaker 2: I just didn't believe in myself. If she asked me
Speaker 2: that today, I'll be like, yeah, but like, you know,
Speaker 2: do you sing? And I was just like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: I've given her all my disclaimers and ship. And then
Speaker 2: she just told me about like not being confident in
Speaker 2: her voice like you know when she was younger, or
Speaker 2: like just giving me like I felt I felt that
Speaker 2: same way too, And I was like what, like you're Brandy,
Speaker 2: Like how could you feel like that your fucking voice
Speaker 2: is perfection? What do you mean? And so I feel
Speaker 2: like that was something that really stuck with me. Like
Speaker 2: I just was like, you know, any time that I
Speaker 2: wasn't feeling confident, like, I will always remind myself like
Speaker 2: the people who are the greatest singers of all time
Speaker 2: feel the same nerves that I feel doing this, you know,
Speaker 2: because singing it's vulnerable, it's so vulnerable, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: like it took me a long time to build up
Speaker 2: to I have a voice, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: like to be confident enough to be like I'm going
Speaker 2: to I'm going to sing the songs, or I want
Speaker 2: to be an artist, or i want to you know, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Get your projects going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you come here, you work with the underdogs strictly
Speaker 3: a songwriters. Are you in your mind You're like, I'm
Speaker 3: going to be a songwriter. Yes, So next step is publishing, Yes,
Speaker 3: because that's what kicks in for songwriters. Yeah, that is
Speaker 3: that is our record deal. Yep, that's a certain type
Speaker 3: of record deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because most.
Speaker 3: People just look at it like, oh, you know in
Speaker 3: the music visits, did you get a record deal? Right, Well,
Speaker 3: if your song writer don't get a record.
Speaker 2: You get a publishing, you get a published especially.
Speaker 3: Then yeah, which is equivalent to having a record deal,
Speaker 3: because these the publishers help shop your songs are supposed
Speaker 3: to you need to be bullshiting it look.
Speaker 2: Like it's like a stamp of approval, Okay, like the
Speaker 2: valid dates your talent.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not all not all of these bullshiting, but
Speaker 3: some just the same thing as when the artists gets
Speaker 3: signed and it's the ant art is good, same type
Speaker 3: of thing or whatever. So you have that within the
Speaker 3: industry all together. But those are the that's that is
Speaker 3: the I'm a professional, yeah, for a songwriter. So how
Speaker 3: long does it take you to get a deal to
Speaker 3: where you're now? You're being paid be a songwriter?
Speaker 2: So I got a deal, So I moved to LA
Speaker 2: when I was twenty. I did my deal when I
Speaker 2: was twenty one. Okay, so the year Yeah, it was fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah it was fast. It was like I came to
Speaker 2: LA and me and Stephen Russell did the song for
Speaker 2: Jenniferson's Invisible and it got placed rather quickly, and so
Speaker 2: it was just kind of like fast and I full transparency.
Speaker 2: So okay. My experience with the Underdogs was also different
Speaker 2: because I was the only female songwriter up there, so
Speaker 2: I was like surrounded by men constantly. Right, So, like,
Speaker 2: I feel like to your point about what you said
Speaker 2: earlier before we started filming, when you were like, you know,
Speaker 2: just talking about the differences as far as like how
Speaker 2: women and men respond and stuff, right, Like I think
Speaker 2: I was a young girl trying to navigate in a
Speaker 2: completely male world, and so you know, and I also
Speaker 2: obviously am outspoken, right, So I always was outspoken, So
Speaker 2: you know, things weren't agreeable rather quickly on top of
Speaker 2: the fact that I wasn't writing like that, so I
Speaker 2: got thrown out the studio people get got kicked me
Speaker 2: out all kind of shit, right, so I started.
Speaker 3: To So you didn't have any studio etiquette in the beginning.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't know. I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 3: What were you doing to get kicked out the students?
Speaker 3: And so that people that are watching.
Speaker 2: They still the whole meeting about kicking me out, like
Speaker 2: don't if you see Tivany, don't let her shout out
Speaker 2: to Stephen Russell because he let me up. He was
Speaker 2: like He's like, come on if like I got you.
Speaker 2: And then me and him wrote that record and then
Speaker 2: I was allowed on the third floor. I wasn't I
Speaker 2: wasn't writing. I was just like I was just there.
Speaker 2: I was there, freking weird, like what is she doing?
Speaker 2: And I didn't know, just like.
Speaker 3: You gotta at least be bringing like fresh, what are
Speaker 3: you doing some more?
Speaker 2: Just like right, yeah, like I just was frozen. I
Speaker 2: was just stuck like and then also, like I said,
Speaker 2: I was the only girl, So me being frozen and
Speaker 2: stuck like Russ, I've grown. It was like look at
Speaker 2: that and see like there was no one around me
Speaker 2: that I could be like girl like, so I couldn't
Speaker 2: do that, like you know, and so I just was
Speaker 2: kind of like and they were like, I mean, I
Speaker 2: guess they had had the meetings because I get her
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here, and so I would do
Speaker 2: y'all remember the security guard, Mike. Yeah, Mike was was
Speaker 2: like he wouldn't let nobody upstairs, didn't matter how famous
Speaker 2: you were. He was like, sorry, you're not.
Speaker 3: Because of some other I mean, because people waiting to
Speaker 3: park A lot of people.
Speaker 2: I watched him deny some big ass artists, Like damn,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna let him up. He's like, sorry, you're
Speaker 2: not on a list. So of course I wasn't on
Speaker 2: the list. So I come to the studio. They're like,
Speaker 2: you know, unfortunately timany candairs, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, damn, you know.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's an interesting part of that too, though. Tank and
Speaker 3: I were also buffers for artists.
Speaker 2: So y'all were like, my Steve, same thing, like not
Speaker 2: even not.
Speaker 3: Even just that. Yeah, because in the earlier days, the
Speaker 3: studios were getting overbooked, so they would be artists just
Speaker 3: sitting literally sitting in the lobby literally sitting, but worse
Speaker 3: might be in there waiting to get you, waiting to
Speaker 3: get us, waiting to even get in concert with some.
Speaker 2: Disc That's what we need that back. I like that.
Speaker 3: I mean, okay for me, I you know, I'm a
Speaker 3: person that values time.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just saying that the level.
Speaker 1: Of like for sure.
Speaker 3: But like I said, I value time like I like
Speaker 3: people to be on time. I like to be on time,
Speaker 3: So I don't like to have somebody waiting. So Tank
Speaker 3: and I we would literally go entertain our peers, like, okay,
Speaker 3: I would go in there and make nigga shoot dice
Speaker 3: and I'll be there gambling. I had the ship lit
Speaker 3: on the full tables, don't don't, okay, like fully gambling,
Speaker 3: I didn't. Yeah, I turn gamble and I think obviously
Speaker 3: by the time you got there, yeah, TVs lined my
Speaker 3: god playing Halo. But we were entertaining things and it was,
Speaker 3: you know, it was just kind of done a little different.
Speaker 3: So I understand that too. Where it was like you
Speaker 3: might have saw artists because they didn't have the space
Speaker 3: and time. Oh yeah, it was just it was everybody.
Speaker 3: Mama was trying to get a under It was a factory.
Speaker 3: They were trying to get an underdog record. It was
Speaker 3: a very hot commodity. So I understand it. But you
Speaker 3: being put on the don't because you had to take
Speaker 3: an elevator if you can't get on it.
Speaker 2: You got that five yeah, yeah, So Steve Russell.
Speaker 3: For sneaking you back, you know, on the third floor,
Speaker 3: give and getting you.
Speaker 2: And get me a Grammy. And my dad loved my
Speaker 2: dad loved Troops. It was I was like, Dad, I'm
Speaker 2: working with Stephen Russell.
Speaker 3: He's like, what, yeah, this is this is but this
Speaker 3: is how the music business works. It's all about seizing
Speaker 3: the opportunity and about the pull up and everybody's not.
Speaker 3: Persistence sometimes goes against you. Sistence can make a nigga
Speaker 3: be like yo, dog, like I'm die. But the pull
Speaker 3: up is very important, meaning when someone grabs back. Because
Speaker 3: Steve did not have.
Speaker 2: To do it, did that.
Speaker 3: He could have wrote that record by himself or with
Speaker 3: another writer that was there. Maybe it's not the same song.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 2: He didn't have to do that.
Speaker 3: He did not have to do that, and that is
Speaker 3: something to me that is very important and that I
Speaker 3: pray and hope that more of us do. It's important
Speaker 3: when we identify talent, because you can't do it for everybody.
Speaker 3: Every m talking about I got to hit for you.
Speaker 3: That's different.
Speaker 2: I think he saw that that I just kept showing
Speaker 2: up like he was just like, clearly something is going on.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, write.
Speaker 2: Well because I was scared. You know what I think
Speaker 2: it was to I was scared to sing. I was
Speaker 2: scared to sing because I just had people telling me
Speaker 2: I couldn't sing. So that it was like, and I'm
Speaker 2: around all these amazing Luke.
Speaker 3: And everybody in there.
Speaker 2: Could you would just be walking through the halls just
Speaker 2: fucking doing all these runs.
Speaker 3: Should would be like Fount LaRoy, Luke, Eric Dawkins.
Speaker 2: I was like, I didn't do that. Like I was
Speaker 2: just like, I can't do that, so I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: do nothing.
Speaker 4: I got all these lyrics and melody.
Speaker 2: I had the whole song in.
Speaker 3: My head, but I was poetry wasn't nothing there. It
Speaker 3: wasn't she was coming there on some death comedy.
Speaker 2: No, They was like jumping the booth. That's why I was.
Speaker 3: Just like these melodies, those lyrics sound yeah yeah, and
Speaker 3: I was not how do they read?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It was it was rough the begin but I mean
Speaker 2: I figured it. I figured it out quick because I
Speaker 2: wanted to do it though, so I was just like,
Speaker 2: fuck it, I'm gonna just figure out how.
Speaker 3: So once you got that record, you want a row.
Speaker 2: So I got that record, and then like I started
Speaker 2: bumping heads with with with some folks up there, and
Speaker 2: so I just started to do my own thing.
Speaker 3: I had you came back and bumped heads.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I just feel like it was no
Speaker 2: after I got kicked out, I did the record, and
Speaker 2: then I signed to them, okay, and then we started
Speaker 2: bumping heads when we started doing business and so or
Speaker 2: no way, hold on, let me backtrack. So before I
Speaker 2: signed to them, I when I was up there, people
Speaker 2: like Brian Kennedy were there and like who else was there?
Speaker 2: T Wiz was there. Yeah, and so like that was
Speaker 2: where I like met some of my first like friends
Speaker 2: in music. And so once I started making friends in music,
Speaker 2: I just started working. Like I had worked with.
Speaker 3: Different studios.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to different studios. Then I started
Speaker 2: going to Atlanta. Polo hit me on my space like yo,
Speaker 2: you want to work.
Speaker 3: I was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, So He's like, yo, you want and
Speaker 2: so I was like, yes, what two thousand and seven
Speaker 2: Polo hit you what? Yes, I'm trying to get a
Speaker 2: records Are you crazy? So yeah, then I went out
Speaker 2: there and that was the first time I worked with
Speaker 2: hip Boy and Chase, you know. So I like by
Speaker 2: the time I did my deal, I was like all
Speaker 2: over the place just doing a whole bunch of stuff
Speaker 2: because I mean, full transparency, I knew they didn't fuck
Speaker 2: with me, like you know what I mean. I knew
Speaker 2: they didn't fuck with me, and so it was like
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be somewhere where they didn't want
Speaker 2: to fuck with me, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: so I mean it kicked me out of the studio.
Speaker 2: So I was just like, all right, well I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep doing this. This was an incredible opportunity.
Speaker 2: I learned a whole bunch of shit and I just
Speaker 2: started working. But when I was in Atlanta working, Touch
Speaker 2: called me and was like, yo, they want to sign you.
Speaker 2: And I was on my life, No, now they want
Speaker 2: to fuck with me. And I was on my life, No,
Speaker 2: now they want to fuck with me? You know, like
Speaker 2: an emotional No, I want to be an emotional I
Speaker 2: meant that as your friend.
Speaker 3: I'm telling you this because in this business sometimes we
Speaker 3: move with our emotions instead of our business mind, right,
Speaker 3: we do. This is a This is a very real
Speaker 3: thing because when you because I'm assessing it, because I
Speaker 3: never knew what your situation was, but I'm assessing it
Speaker 3: from the outside.
Speaker 2: I got to give you the rest of the tea
Speaker 2: before you assessed.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it's quick.
Speaker 3: It's quick because I want this to be something that
Speaker 3: younger generations of writers of artists, they just they understand
Speaker 3: what they're what's going on in your position At that time,
Speaker 3: you didn't fully know what was going on. You couldn't
Speaker 3: fully look at it through a glass lens and say, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: now I showed my worth.
Speaker 2: Well, but so here's the other thing. I have other
Speaker 2: deals on the table that were better.
Speaker 3: Of course you did. And so it came from.
Speaker 2: I know well, and so I was in that position
Speaker 2: and it was like that was the tone. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: so I was like, oh my god, I don't want
Speaker 2: to fucking you know.
Speaker 3: It's a valid tone. Sure no, not just sure, no,
Speaker 3: it's a valid because we gotta okay, you gotta look
Speaker 3: at you gotta look at it. At this as a business.
Speaker 3: Gotta look at it as a business. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: you can listen. You're here because I want you to
Speaker 3: tell your I know, but I also I want you
Speaker 3: to hear out all sides, and I want people to
Speaker 3: hear out all sides of how our business works. Like
Speaker 3: music is one thing. There's the nigga that works is
Speaker 3: nine to five shift and just does music for the love?
Speaker 2: Is it a deal for just the rec Like I
Speaker 2: just I hear you. But I wasn't. But I couldn't though,
Speaker 2: it's what I'm saying, Like I didn't have options, Like
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I was twenty one, I was These were
Speaker 2: a bunch of grown ass men, but I was. No,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you're not grown I'm just saying
Speaker 2: that these were a bunch of grown ass men talking
Speaker 2: to me like grown ass men. And I was a
Speaker 2: twenty one year old woman. I'm not a man, right,
Speaker 2: so I mean talk to like a man even though
Speaker 2: I'm not a man. And like I just felt like,
Speaker 2: you know, because I knew they didn't fuck with me.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do the deal because I knew
Speaker 2: didn't fuck with me. It wasn't even about like like
Speaker 2: I didn't care about the money, Like I didn't care
Speaker 2: about what like that was my dream. I came to
Speaker 2: LA to work with the underdogs, so you know, it
Speaker 2: wasn't about that, but it was like I knew what
Speaker 2: it really was, and so I was just like, man,
Speaker 2: I don't want to like that's not what I wanted.
Speaker 2: I ended up doing it because I felt that pressure
Speaker 2: of like, you know, I don't want it to come
Speaker 2: off like I just came, you know, worked with y'all
Speaker 2: for a year, did all this shit, met all these
Speaker 2: people and dipped. I understand the business, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, But the emotional side comes from I mean,
Speaker 2: we just didn't have a good relationship. So I didn't
Speaker 2: want to do the deal because we didn't like each other,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like I just I wanted
Speaker 2: to be signing somebody that I knew fucked with me
Speaker 2: for real, Like and I just felt like I was
Speaker 2: getting signed because I got a placement. Yeah what CHALL
Speaker 2: understand from a business perspective, Sure, but I wasn't a
Speaker 2: great writer when I got that placement. Yet I was
Speaker 2: the reason why I came there was because they were
Speaker 2: a production scene, right, So it was like I was
Speaker 2: going to be able to learn and collaborate and work
Speaker 2: with and do all the things you know in.
Speaker 3: Your opinion for you personally, Yeah, do all those things
Speaker 3: hold weight? What you you know? What you what you
Speaker 3: went and learned what you know what I mean eventually
Speaker 3: to that, like you can look at it like your
Speaker 3: deal wasn't in favor of you.
Speaker 2: And by the way, the deal wasn't bad.
Speaker 3: But you know our first deal is No, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: But I just want to say though, to be clear though,
Speaker 2: But I just want to say, to be clear, though
Speaker 2: my deal wasn't bad. It wasn't a bad publishing deal.
Speaker 2: It was a proper deal for the time and for
Speaker 2: where I was at.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And because I'm using your experience as a teaching moment,
Speaker 3: because sometimes people will look at it and I'm glad
Speaker 3: you said that, like, no, my deal wasn't it wasn't
Speaker 3: the other it wasn't bad. Because sometimes what happens is
Speaker 3: when we get success.
Speaker 2: We forget how we got there.
Speaker 3: And this is something that runs rampant in our business. Sure,
Speaker 3: I've watched it so many times where me, on the
Speaker 3: other hand, I usually will give up more so somebody
Speaker 3: will never have that conversation about me. I've taken less,
Speaker 3: but that's not really my obligation. It's just who I
Speaker 3: am and what I've shown and to do so that
Speaker 3: I'm not in those type of conversations. But I usually
Speaker 3: take less are sometimes nothing at all. But what I
Speaker 3: find is that there are creatives because you know, artists
Speaker 3: false under the creatives get that success and they just
Speaker 3: don't remember what else went into that success of someone
Speaker 3: giving them that opportunity, of somebody teaching them, of somebody
Speaker 3: putting them in that room. Hell yeah, it is very
Speaker 3: important when it goes into they took.
Speaker 2: My Yeah, well see that's not my story. But yeah,
Speaker 2: my story isn't that anything.
Speaker 3: But you're the You're the first songwriter purely songwriter that
Speaker 3: we've had on here. Okay, that's what you came to
Speaker 3: this business is what I came to do. You end
Speaker 3: up doing more things, but profession songwriter. So that's why
Speaker 3: I want us to have more conversation about that process
Speaker 3: and just about people who are creatives understanding like listen man, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: the split is what is split is? But do you
Speaker 3: know why that split?
Speaker 1: Ist?
Speaker 3: You know, I just just you know when people are like,
Speaker 3: you know, the artist shall remain nameless, but oh, this
Speaker 3: artist takes twenty five percent. Well, that artists their artistry
Speaker 3: earned them more publishing on that song, or maybe earned
Speaker 3: them publishing on the song that they actually did not
Speaker 3: write because of what they're going to do to it
Speaker 3: and what it's going to probably change your life. So
Speaker 3: after I worked on in Sync and a Mama.
Speaker 2: Was going to change your life, it don't change your
Speaker 2: life no more.
Speaker 3: It changed mine in Sync.
Speaker 2: That shit don't change your life no more.
Speaker 3: If you get a Drake placement, it's going to change
Speaker 3: your life. It's going to change if you're gonna be honest.
Speaker 3: Single Okay, well no, I'm about to break down why
Speaker 3: it is even bigger than the single because now you're
Speaker 3: part of a conversation. Oh for sure will get you
Speaker 3: in a room that can lead you to.
Speaker 2: But but but what I'm saying, both of you guys
Speaker 2: are saying the same thing.
Speaker 1: What I think comes from being a part of whatever
Speaker 1: a Beyonce or a Drake process is the conversation right
Speaker 1: in the room. What leading to what she's saying is
Speaker 1: that in twenty in twenty twenty, or even up to
Speaker 1: maybe twenty two thousand and seven, where it was still
Speaker 1: speculative that conversation could lead to a greater game, like now, no,
Speaker 1: it's such an analytical conversation, yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's such a political conversation. And then also like
Speaker 2: you can get it a Beyonce cut or a Drake cut,
Speaker 2: but you can have two percent of that cut, right,
Speaker 2: and then it might lead you to Justin Bieber, And
Speaker 2: then you get two percent on a Justin Bieber cut.
Speaker 2: It's still leading to the same role blocks. Do you
Speaker 2: see how many writers are on these songs, how much POSI?
Speaker 3: I think it's that I've never gotten two percent. I
Speaker 3: don't even understand.
Speaker 2: People are out here a getting little little pieces of
Speaker 2: publishing if the splits are even done at all, right,
Speaker 2: and so like, I agree with you, but I think
Speaker 2: that that model it doesn't work anymore because it's not enough.
Speaker 2: There's plenty of money, right, but it's not in majority
Speaker 2: of It's not in publishing.
Speaker 3: It just isn't.
Speaker 2: It's in the sound recording, it's in live shows, in
Speaker 2: merch and all these other things. And because these artists
Speaker 2: are taking twenty five thirty whatever it are taking plus
Speaker 2: samples and whatever, there's this little teeny tiny piece that's
Speaker 2: left and for everybody else to split. And so it's
Speaker 2: not like, yes, it gets you clout, but clout don't
Speaker 2: pay your bills. It gets you into another room. But
Speaker 2: then that's about whether you're good at other shit like
Speaker 2: marketing yourself, branding, networking that don't have nothing to do
Speaker 2: with being a good songwriter or being a good producer.
Speaker 2: Now you got to know what to do with it.
Speaker 2: Hit Like when I have replay, what I would do
Speaker 2: with replay now versus what I did with replay then
Speaker 2: is two totally different things because I didn't know how.
Speaker 2: I didn't know, like, oh, I should have maybe hired
Speaker 2: a publicist at that point. Maybe I should I do too.
Speaker 2: And it's like, you know, I talk to writers in
Speaker 2: the community all the time. They're like, yo, tip, I
Speaker 2: don't got this and I don't got that. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: you have to pay. If you want a billboard, you
Speaker 2: need to call the billboard company and you need to
Speaker 2: pay for that shit. And you need I'm like, because
Speaker 2: all the shit you see is people's own money they
Speaker 2: spend on theyself, right like, and but you know, you don't.
Speaker 2: It's not like there's a whole bunch of that knowledge
Speaker 2: is not readily available, you know what I mean, Or
Speaker 2: it wasn't not when I was coming up, you know.
Speaker 2: And so like unless things change, which is what I'm
Speaker 2: obviously advocating for, right, unless things change. When it comes
Speaker 2: to what other other royalty streams songwriters are included in
Speaker 2: publishing isn't going to be enough long term anymore because
Speaker 2: it's too oversaturated. Everybody got published. So like, while you
Speaker 2: get a place, so while it might be a big
Speaker 2: deal for you to get a Beyonce, placements about to
Speaker 2: lead you to another place where you can only get publishing.
Speaker 2: So if you can only get publishing, and you can
Speaker 2: only get because we playing politics, But.
Speaker 3: If you're but here we are with that. If you're
Speaker 3: playing politics, and maybe you got a lesser percentage but
Speaker 3: a bigger cachet off of working with a certain artist,
Speaker 3: the next rooms you should walk into should and this
Speaker 3: is and this is on the writer. So I'm a
Speaker 3: songwriter at the heart of me, songwriter. This is what
Speaker 3: I also came out here for. I then come out
Speaker 3: here to saying, and come out here to manage, and
Speaker 3: come out here to be fucking talking head. Podcasting came
Speaker 3: out here to write songs for people. And I can
Speaker 3: only give my own experiences, and I can give my
Speaker 3: successes and my failures and how I moved within this
Speaker 3: business and how I see fit that writers should move.
Speaker 3: There are certain business you should make that will put
Speaker 3: you in an advantageous place on your next go round. Now,
Speaker 3: if your dumb ass, and I said dumb ass, because
Speaker 3: I want you to feel like a dumb ass, if
Speaker 3: you let that shit happen to you multiple.
Speaker 2: Times, yea, then it's your fault.
Speaker 3: Then it's your fault.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, I can't.
Speaker 3: I can't hear this writer gripe about the fifth time I.
Speaker 2: Agree with you, I'm the same way, like, don't come
Speaker 2: to me, and.
Speaker 3: You know we hear it for sure. Fifth time, I'm like,
Speaker 3: well but you just.
Speaker 2: But you know why though, because of industry standards.
Speaker 3: Ain't no industry there are not it's not it's not
Speaker 3: we broke them ships down their industry standards because it's
Speaker 3: still implanted in our minds. Now, there are numbers that
Speaker 3: are just what they are right now.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. So you don't have any control
Speaker 2: over people, right, So, like if a writer goes into
Speaker 2: the studio and they don't have the politics in their favor,
Speaker 2: whether it be the relationship with the managers, the artists
Speaker 2: or whoever. Like I'm just telling you from being advocate, right,
Speaker 2: Like I get like I feel like the music industry
Speaker 2: is fucking therapist, right, Like I got DMS. This happened,
Speaker 2: and this happened, and it's a massive artist, big record.
Speaker 3: It doesn't it doesn't matter, and yeah, that part don't matter, right.
Speaker 2: And what I'm saying though, is that it's not just
Speaker 2: how we try to do business, because if the business
Speaker 2: is not received like us doing like for instance, like
Speaker 2: I don't write songs for anybody anymore because I'm not
Speaker 2: writing for free, right, I'm not showing up nowhere your time, yes,
Speaker 2: And my rate is my rate. It's my decision, right,
Speaker 2: So my rate is fifteen thousand. If you want me
Speaker 2: to write a record, it's fifteen thousand to me.
Speaker 3: I'm rolling with that, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm rolling with that because I was I was trying
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get into that cot
Speaker 1: Gear Records.
Speaker 3: Not getting no free reach, not get free.
Speaker 2: You're not getting free nothing. No, you're not getting free anything.
Speaker 2: Nothing in this life is free nothing, right, and so
Speaker 2: the thing that I'd be trying to get people to
Speaker 2: understand in the music business because it's like we always
Speaker 2: like our deal in the one percenters. There's a massive
Speaker 2: middle class in the music business that's writing all the
Speaker 2: album cuts, not the singles. They writing the album cuts,
Speaker 2: and they are not respected or given the same leverage
Speaker 2: to negotiate the things that we're talking about, Like it's
Speaker 2: easier for a bigger songwriter with more leverage because in
Speaker 2: your leverage, like I'm going through this right now, right
Speaker 2: like I'm I'm I feel like my advocacy has brought
Speaker 2: taking me places that I never thought I would go, right,
Speaker 2: and so I'm lit, but I'm lit for what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: So my profile is raised because I'm in the press
Speaker 2: and I'm into this and I'm into that, not because
Speaker 2: I write great songs. So when I walk into the room, now,
Speaker 2: all the other shit I do walk into the room
Speaker 2: with me. So these big as songwriters and big ass producers,
Speaker 2: they got they radio interviews walking in with them, they
Speaker 2: got their relationship with the music exec that whoever. That's
Speaker 2: how you're getting money. You're not getting money because of
Speaker 2: your song, you getting money because of who you are
Speaker 2: and what you bring to the table. And so if
Speaker 2: you don't have that, because that don't have ship to
Speaker 2: do with being a songwriter. Everything understand, I don't have
Speaker 2: nothing to do with being a songwriter. And it doesn't
Speaker 2: you have to do it. It didn't or it didn't.
Speaker 3: You have to be you have to entertain This is
Speaker 3: the entertainment. It's music business, but it's also entertainment.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. But every every.
Speaker 3: Aspect of this business is entertainment, especially now with social media,
Speaker 3: especially now with you know, the way that the algorithms
Speaker 3: work to make somebody even pay attention to little old
Speaker 3: me or you or whatever this thing is. It's it's
Speaker 3: just a it's a bigger it's a bigger game than
Speaker 3: it used to be. From that standpoint, like now you
Speaker 3: have to put more. You can't just be one singular thing.
Speaker 3: You just can't be that great songwriter. You also have
Speaker 3: to have a personality to get to.
Speaker 1: Well, here's a question, here's a question I want to
Speaker 1: ask and that I think you can help answer as well.
Speaker 1: How do we get to a place to where there
Speaker 1: is a standard for songwriters to show up because with
Speaker 1: the producer, you're always going to negotiate a fee. Whether
Speaker 1: he's just starting out or whether he's a he's a
Speaker 1: there's always a production, which is what I'm trying to.
Speaker 2: Get, which is what So so we've been the one
Speaker 2: hundred percenters have been working with Sony Music Publishing. We've
Speaker 2: been working really closely with a big John and.
Speaker 3: Let's shout out. Let's shout out all the people that
Speaker 3: are behind that with you, like your your board of advisory.
Speaker 3: Those are very important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So our two associate directors other names are
Speaker 2: Marie Alliance and Rosemary Tan and that's like Rosemary Tan,
Speaker 2: and then a guy named Gamorrow. That's our executive team.
Speaker 2: And then there's me. I'm an executive director where the
Speaker 2: like brains behind and you know, the machine behind one
Speaker 2: hundred Percenters. And then we have like a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of different like volunteers. We have, you know, a little
Speaker 2: crew Blush Micah, a guy named Zach Poor like really
Speaker 2: really dope songwriters, a girl named Cadence and yeah, we
Speaker 2: just like and then also I kind of feel like
Speaker 2: our following is a bit like an extended kind of
Speaker 2: thing because like a lot of the stuff that like
Speaker 2: I post and talk about and stuff like that. They
Speaker 2: be sending me all kind of like, Yo, you've seen this.
Speaker 2: You seem like I don't even got to look for
Speaker 2: shit anymore. They just dming me stuff. But yeah, so
Speaker 2: that's that's our team. And then we have other organizations
Speaker 2: that we work closely with. One of them is SONA.
Speaker 2: Another one is NMPA. Do you know what NMPA is? Okay,
Speaker 2: So and so NMPA is the National Music Publishing Association.
Speaker 2: So they're the trade association that represents all of our
Speaker 2: publishing companies. So they're like Board of Directors is Big John, Jody,
Speaker 2: all the like CEOs of all of the head all
Speaker 2: the publishing companies. Right, I work with the US Copyright Office.
Speaker 2: From the outside, I'm sure it probably looks like I'm
Speaker 2: just online talking shit all the time, like gosh, she
Speaker 2: just always complaining, she just always But most of my
Speaker 2: my Instagram and all of that is my megaphone. If
Speaker 2: I'm talking about something, I'm usually talking to someone, and
Speaker 2: it's usually about something that I'm trying to get done.
Speaker 2: So if I'm advocating about something, it's because I'm talking
Speaker 2: to that record label or publishing company or person's team
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, I use it as a tool,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and as a way to
Speaker 2: get to people sometimes as well. And so what we've
Speaker 2: been doing in this last year is like having the
Speaker 2: conversations like with the publishing companies, so we you know,
Speaker 2: were working with Sony. I just had a really great
Speaker 2: meeting with warrener Chappel two days ago, and we are
Speaker 2: having these real conversations like look like this is the
Speaker 2: reality for songwriters, like and so because so many people
Speaker 2: feel like they're not supposed to talk about any of
Speaker 2: this stuff, like they don't people don't know what's going
Speaker 2: on with they writers for real. And then also I
Speaker 2: feel like people get in the room, people like Big
Speaker 2: John and be like oh shit, like yeah, like where
Speaker 2: I Like, I'm so grateful for my relationship with John
Speaker 2: because like, oh my god, so dope, right he just
Speaker 2: like I don't I don't know. I like so many
Speaker 2: people I know that are like man, Big John helped
Speaker 2: me with this. He helped me with that, like and
Speaker 2: I got the same story. And me and Big John
Speaker 2: didn't start like I started beefing with him on the internet,
Speaker 2: Like that's how we for real. I called him out
Speaker 2: on the internet and he was like who is this girl?
Speaker 2: Like you know, but he was the first person that
Speaker 2: was like what is this about? Like what is this about?
Speaker 2: And he brought me out here to La, brought my
Speaker 2: whole team in, and I sat down in one of
Speaker 2: their like conference rooms, and I just was like, this
Speaker 2: is the truth, Like this is the truth. Like I
Speaker 2: don't have anything to lose anymore. I don't even care
Speaker 2: about this shit. I don't write songs no more. I'm
Speaker 2: not I don't even live here no more. So I
Speaker 2: just was like I bear my soul and he just
Speaker 2: hurt us, like in a way that I just didn't expect.
Speaker 2: And I've been giving the opportunity to help with modernizing
Speaker 2: all of this stuff. So these are all conversations that
Speaker 2: we're having with the publishing companies, and we're putting together plans,
Speaker 2: like I don't want to just be out here talking
Speaker 2: shit'm We're putting together solutions like the solutions that like,
Speaker 2: for instance, we're working on something called session fees for
Speaker 2: songwriters and producers. So if y'all do, if we do
Speaker 2: go do a session for Tank, whether Tank takes the
Speaker 2: record or not, our money is an attached to the song.
Speaker 2: Our money is attached to the session same way like
Speaker 2: an engineer exactly. And so I think I think we've
Speaker 2: all been talking about we need more money, but I
Speaker 2: think no one's ever really sat down and like put it.
Speaker 2: Put it yes, And so I was like, does this
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be million like big money. It doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be for it to be a livable wage.
Speaker 2: So the liverable wage I think currently in California is
Speaker 2: fifty eight thousand dollars a year. I'm like, can we
Speaker 2: get you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Like, I mean, but if it was on a scale
Speaker 1: based on a fifty eight thousand dollars a year, we
Speaker 1: talked salary.
Speaker 2: We're talking five hundred dollars a day or something exactly.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to be working every day.
Speaker 1: It's not like you you may not even get to
Speaker 1: that fifty eight thousand.
Speaker 2: But if there's but if you're getting paid something, if
Speaker 2: there's a.
Speaker 1: If there's just a rate scale, yes, that just says,
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm in this room, it's a working Yet,
Speaker 1: so is.
Speaker 3: This for every writer? So this exists, do you have
Speaker 3: is there a governing body they have to come through?
Speaker 3: It would be for their players association.
Speaker 1: You know, I think it will.
Speaker 2: Be based on a label. It would be based on
Speaker 2: a label. So like if you where we're asking for
Speaker 2: is if your work. If a songwriter and a producer
Speaker 2: are working with a signed artist, they should be getting
Speaker 2: paid absolutely, So I agree, you know what I mean
Speaker 2: like they.
Speaker 3: Should be hold what I'm mean asking is you know
Speaker 3: because in some of these situations there are writers that
Speaker 3: just end up at the session like, how do you well? Engineering?
Speaker 2: This is going to help. I think one of the
Speaker 2: things that I think the session feed program is going
Speaker 2: to do is help with quality control because think about
Speaker 2: so this is I can't I can't like I will
Speaker 2: tell y'all like more of the setup off of this
Speaker 2: because I can't tell above the whole set up. But
Speaker 2: if we knew that there was some set amount of
Speaker 2: money for a session, would you let all your niggas
Speaker 2: pull up or would you control?
Speaker 3: We've always controlled.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, so but so what I'm saying is
Speaker 2: that it would control itself because the less people that
Speaker 2: are in a room, the more money you make in
Speaker 2: is how we're setting it up so that it's.
Speaker 1: Like you don't think it should be who's ever, whoever
Speaker 1: signed on to be a part of the session versus yeah,
Speaker 1: the amount well such, you know what I'm saying, because
Speaker 1: if if the scale is the same for every writer
Speaker 1: that's in the room, no one's money is more. It's
Speaker 1: just that, Yeah, we are just the only people signed
Speaker 1: to write this record.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, and it just being way more communication between artists, management,
Speaker 2: record label, because the other thing that we're trying to
Speaker 2: solve with all of this stuff is like AMIN right,
Speaker 2: because the AMIN is it's fucking ridiculous, right. And so
Speaker 2: if there was more quality control, if there was more
Speaker 2: communication from the time the session is scheduled, before the
Speaker 2: song's even written, we already know who's in the room.
Speaker 2: So when we're trying to do splits, who's in the
Speaker 2: who was in the room? I can tell because this
Speaker 2: is who we paid, This is who we paid. So
Speaker 2: this is the writers, this is the producers, this is
Speaker 2: their contact information because we got them as a vendor
Speaker 2: in our system or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: The other problem we have in urban music, yeah, is
Speaker 3: those split She's not being done the day of session,
Speaker 3: chasing somebody down to ask them how many d in
Speaker 3: these and and why on this song? And oh I
Speaker 3: wrote that one section before the was and I said, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's fucking ridiculous. Yeah, it's out of control.
Speaker 2: People don't know how to negotiate business people don't Talking
Speaker 2: numbers is for some people intimidating, and so I think,
Speaker 2: especially like you know, people be getting in fights over splits.
Speaker 1: They rather steal behind your back now.
Speaker 2: Necessarily right, Like they're not gonna tell you yea, I'm
Speaker 2: about to like I feel like I should have thirty eighty. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're not gonna say that, and that's not gonna happen. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not gonna happen this. But my thing is our
Speaker 2: goal is more so on like I can't tell y'all
Speaker 2: how to do your business. I just want to provide
Speaker 2: a better way for you to do it. And if
Speaker 2: you choose to do it that way, lit if not,
Speaker 2: if you take some of these solutions and flip it
Speaker 2: and do it your own way, because we're independent contractors,
Speaker 2: so nobody can you know, all of these things will
Speaker 2: look different. But I'm trying to create a floor. Like,
Speaker 2: if you were a teacher, you're not about to start
Speaker 2: making nothing. You're gonna start as an entry level teacher.
Speaker 2: There should be an entry level songwriter, entry level producer,
Speaker 2: entry you know what I mean, Like, we shouldn't be
Speaker 2: making nothing because people are paying to work. Like I
Speaker 2: talk to people that are like, oh, you know, I
Speaker 2: got to get a babysitter, gases, a million fucking dollars,
Speaker 2: all the things to just shoot your shot.
Speaker 1: It's a job.
Speaker 2: It's a job.
Speaker 3: I paid to work.
Speaker 2: I paid to work.
Speaker 3: Get my initial into this thing as an adult, Like
Speaker 3: I paid to work, like I you know, I paid
Speaker 3: whatever dues I had to pay to get into it,
Speaker 3: and how many sessions I had to go to that
Speaker 3: didn't turn out to be anything.
Speaker 2: Imagine if you got paid for all those sessions.
Speaker 3: I might not have been as hungry. And this is
Speaker 3: just me, And this is just me because what I
Speaker 3: also find in our new industry is a lack of hunger,
Speaker 3: not with everyone, but with a lot where the struggle
Speaker 3: is just different. The struggle is different because it's way
Speaker 3: easier to hit the lottery these days than it used
Speaker 3: to be, because the you know, the gatekeeper's been pushed
Speaker 3: out the way a little bit. The gates have been
Speaker 3: pushed over to a certain degree where somebody can make
Speaker 3: a you know, a hit record off their couch and
Speaker 3: upload it. So I think sometimes some of the the
Speaker 3: bystanders and in the audience just sees it as man,
Speaker 3: we should be lit from the beginning. Yeah, and they
Speaker 3: forget what goes into this ship, and they forget, you know,
Speaker 3: or they don't even know. Forget they don't even know that,
Speaker 3: you know, Jay Valentine slept on the floor for nine
Speaker 3: months floor.
Speaker 2: So and do you feel like you should have to
Speaker 2: sleep on the floor because I think.
Speaker 1: I think that the level of hunger that exists or
Speaker 1: doesn't exist, I think, you know, that's gonna always that's
Speaker 1: gonna always be there, no matter.
Speaker 3: Because I also believe that you should have a job
Speaker 3: while you're while you're working toward an actual deal.
Speaker 1: But I think of it like this. You should work
Speaker 1: if you if there is an entry level, if there's
Speaker 1: an entry level pay, let's say entry level pay is
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty a session. It's just just hypothetically,
Speaker 1: and you see guys who are making fifteen thousand a session. Well,
Speaker 1: that within itself, he is going to create that. I
Speaker 1: need that because all of that one you can eat
Speaker 1: and get your ubers, but it ain't changing your life yet.
Speaker 2: But it's enough for you.
Speaker 1: But it's enough for you to do it, to just
Speaker 1: do that, to hone in on be Like I think
Speaker 1: we came up, all of us. Yes, we came up
Speaker 1: and came up in an era where we had to
Speaker 1: figure out how to be great in spite of no
Speaker 1: matter what the conditions were. Like we're like the last
Speaker 1: of the Mohicans of that space. We weren't given shit nothing.
Speaker 1: We had you on the floor car like we were saying.
Speaker 1: But but I think some of the advantage in giving
Speaker 1: writers an opportunity to to live and work as a
Speaker 1: writer's is the developmental process because it's like in a sense,
Speaker 1: because it's like it's like it's like your son right
Speaker 1: now in basketball, you know what I'm saying, Like, I
Speaker 1: know you went to some camps or what have you,
Speaker 1: But had your development, had you had the opportunity to
Speaker 1: develop the way Deuce is developing, you're in a basketball player.
Speaker 3: Different, Yeah, I get opportunity at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, you said. I'm saying, like, if you're asking me,
Speaker 1: you're NBA basketball player, and with being able to just
Speaker 1: focus on playing basketball, you know, And I think we're
Speaker 1: moving into a space or the blessing into moving into
Speaker 1: a space like that where writers can just write and
Speaker 1: focus on writing. I think we get to a space
Speaker 1: where we get the best out of people because I
Speaker 1: didn't start making my best music until I was not
Speaker 1: under durest making.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, same where you're Yes, I didn't get
Speaker 2: my best music. So we were suffering.
Speaker 1: Yes, so we said let's do it our way. Everything everybody.
Speaker 2: I feel like there's so much suffering attack. Like one
Speaker 2: of the sayings that drive me crazy is a starving artist,
Speaker 2: because that's the epitot, Like it's the problem with the music.
Speaker 2: The music business is earning more money than it's ever
Speaker 2: made historically, right, so like for there to be starting
Speaker 2: starving artists is ridiculous. And I'm speaking only for like
Speaker 2: I always say, like, God bless the up and comings,
Speaker 2: God blessed independent artists, because I'm an independent artist. But
Speaker 2: that's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about the
Speaker 2: people that are writing these songs that we tiktoking to
Speaker 2: because they're the people who are hitting me. We have
Speaker 2: a grant that's about to open in October. It is
Speaker 2: called the Songwriter Stimulus Grant, and my goal is to
Speaker 2: give out one hundred thousand dollars. The grants are twenty
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars a piece. Songwriters only you have to
Speaker 2: make under one hundred thousand dollars a year. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 2: army money.
Speaker 3: You got to.
Speaker 1: Donate to the river.
Speaker 2: And but like, the people that are hitting me are
Speaker 2: working songwriters. It's not these up and it's not them,
Speaker 2: it's us. It's our folks that should not be struggling
Speaker 2: people who.
Speaker 1: Got records credit.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, and and I feel like that's the
Speaker 2: part for me where it's like creating music is so amazing, right,
Speaker 2: but like the business does such an incredible job at
Speaker 2: exploiting piece Well, was ignorance.
Speaker 1: Top five R and B artists? Man male or female group?
Speaker 2: Oh man?
Speaker 3: Like only you don't say, might not vote with you?
Speaker 2: This is like they can only like yeah, but like
Speaker 2: can they do other genres or is it.
Speaker 3: Also do this point comes from the arn.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just gonna say my favorite artist of all
Speaker 2: time because so my favorite artist of all time is
Speaker 2: Janet Jackson. My favorite so my favorite song of all
Speaker 2: time is that's the way? Sorry? Okay, five one, okay,
Speaker 2: Janet Brandy.
Speaker 3: Janet Brandy, amazing, amazing Stevie wonder.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: Another of my favorites is Usher Love Usher like somebody
Speaker 2: that I'm really enjoying. Who's music I'm doing right now
Speaker 2: is Lucky Day. I'm really enjoying his incredible artist. That's fine, right,
Speaker 2: I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker 1: I like that. Okay, Okay, I like that. Top five
Speaker 1: R and B songs.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's the way I love goes. It's my favorite
Speaker 2: song ever. Top five arm B songs, my top five.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite Brandy songs is Acapella. Okay, shout
Speaker 2: out TC not gonna amazing. Oh my god, just the
Speaker 2: vocal arrangement of that song is fucking crazy. That album damn,
Speaker 2: I should have named O Wait, but I said Brandy full.
Speaker 2: I mean the song that got my whole ship started
Speaker 2: was Midnight by Omari made so Midnight. You know what
Speaker 2: records I used to like. I used to like Maya
Speaker 2: a lot back in the day. Maya Yo, Like I
Speaker 2: was thinking about that song she had Fallen or like.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a whole bunch of Maya songs I like.
Speaker 2: But I don't know a Maya record. Do I have
Speaker 2: to pick it?
Speaker 3: Because it's discovery, it's about discovering.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm gonna say falling. I love Falling by Maya.
Speaker 2: How many was that? Damn?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: Do I have the name?
Speaker 3: Five?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I can't get Okay.
Speaker 3: Lock the doors yeah, okay, and make you sign this contract.
Speaker 2: Talk about there wasn't no gun to your head because like,
Speaker 2: but the doors was locked.
Speaker 3: As lights.
Speaker 1: I was the only girl.
Speaker 2: Okay, don't always even go.
Speaker 3: You don't know what it's going.
Speaker 2: I love the record.
Speaker 1: I love the record.
Speaker 2: Okay, all stressful, God, like you don't know?
Speaker 1: This is crazy? There we go. This is the activist
Speaker 1: for R and B. Not just RB, no, just writer
Speaker 1: spirit writers. I mean, but you know we mostly reside.
Speaker 2: The same ship over and over again.
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, here we go. We're building an R
Speaker 1: and B vul trond, We're building an artist. Where do
Speaker 1: you get the vocals from? Where do you get the
Speaker 1: styling from? Where do you get and where do you
Speaker 1: get the passion? The emotions start with the vocals.
Speaker 3: Where do you get the vocals from Brandy?
Speaker 1: I love it? Where do you get the styling from Rihanna?
Speaker 1: You're going where you get the performance from? You're obviously
Speaker 1: building artist, building a woman. If God was a woman.
Speaker 1: That's what you're building.
Speaker 3: And this is an amazing artist.
Speaker 1: And if you are the emotion, the passion, who are
Speaker 1: you getting that.
Speaker 3: From your soul?
Speaker 1: You might have built the best artists. Yeah in R
Speaker 1: and B money.
Speaker 3: History really Oh yeah, that artist is incredible. My god,
Speaker 3: the voice of b, the style of Ree, the.
Speaker 2: Performance in the passion of Mary.
Speaker 1: Hy my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's out here, out here. If you're out there,
Speaker 3: I want to.
Speaker 2: Sign man, what and I'll come. I'll write a song
Speaker 2: for free.
Speaker 1: What's gonna show up that man?
Speaker 3: Goden, good job.
Speaker 1: You with that. She's back.
Speaker 3: Recover ladies and gentleman.
Speaker 1: Recover ladies and gentleman.
Speaker 3: I have tank no no, no, oh.
Speaker 1: I'm tanking and I want to tell you about.
Speaker 3: So that has Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh.
Speaker 3: You're going to be amazing at this game. Boy, it's card.
Speaker 3: I ain't saying no names because I know you got
Speaker 3: stories lord, amongst your travels. The only rules are you
Speaker 3: can't say no names. The story can be funny or
Speaker 3: fucked up or both. Just don't say their names. It
Speaker 3: can't be me and such and such was that the
Speaker 3: you can give all? Yeah, it was the this female
Speaker 3: black artist or this male this basketball player that wanted
Speaker 3: to be in the music business. But whatever, she can't
Speaker 3: say their names.
Speaker 2: Man, I have a lot of stories.
Speaker 1: I know you do.
Speaker 3: I know you do. Give us a good one without
Speaker 3: saying that.
Speaker 2: A funny, a fucked up one or and this is
Speaker 2: just like a like a music business story.
Speaker 1: No no, no, your journey amongst.
Speaker 2: Your travels, amongst my travel.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: There was this one time that I went to the
Speaker 2: studio and I was not working. I just like on
Speaker 2: some like YO pull up type shit. So I'm like,
Speaker 2: all right, cool. There was this artist there and the
Speaker 2: artist had friends there and it was late. Shit was
Speaker 2: like starting to feel weird. They was talking about weird
Speaker 2: shit and I don't okay, so I don't do drugs.
Speaker 2: I smoke hellowe, but I don't do like drugs. So
Speaker 2: they had like I noticed that, like the girls were
Speaker 2: like going to the bathroom a lot. I was like,
Speaker 2: what are they doing, like you know, and the person
Speaker 2: I was in studio was like, oh, they probably whatever.
Speaker 2: And then there was like this really weird interaction with
Speaker 2: the artist and like one of the girls that she
Speaker 2: had with her seen before because she was a stripper.
Speaker 2: I seen her. I was with my homegirl at the
Speaker 2: strip clubs. Yeah, yeahs yeah, I was a girl at
Speaker 2: the strip club. She want to go pick up somebody
Speaker 2: and ship. She was like doing like a like a
Speaker 2: walk through whatever. Yeah, so she wanted to go get
Speaker 2: her money. She had like a birthday party or some ship.
Speaker 2: She got some money and so but I saw that,
Speaker 2: I was like, yo, I feel like I know this
Speaker 2: girl that was in the studio. The stripper girl and
Speaker 2: the artists were having like this weird ass argument and
Speaker 2: it was just like really uncomfortable. I was like, I
Speaker 2: think I'm about to leave, and the stripper was like.
Speaker 5: Please, like please, don't do this to be please, And
Speaker 5: the artist was like get out, and I was like,
Speaker 5: what the fuck is She just was like and she
Speaker 5: walked out, and I just was like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Kind of weird ship and I left. That's my weird story, okay.
Speaker 3: And they had a cocaine fight.
Speaker 2: They had like a weird ass they had. They had
Speaker 2: a weird like so the artist so the artist was like,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure how to tell her without saying that.
Speaker 2: So the artist isn't necessarily just the artist. The artist
Speaker 2: was also like one of those people that you see
Speaker 2: on like instad that, like how do I say? How
Speaker 2: do I say this? Like the person's an influencer, very
Speaker 2: like sexual and so like this person was like giving
Speaker 2: everybody like lap dance is in the studio and like
Speaker 2: just it just I just was sitting there really like
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like, yeah, like I'm here to work,
Speaker 2: like I don't know what's going on, and she's looking
Speaker 2: at your neck like I don't know what they're doing
Speaker 2: coke in the bathroom. She just cuss the stripper out.
Speaker 2: I'm going home. I'm going home. That's my weird story,
Speaker 2: just getting weird.
Speaker 1: But your vultraun was amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you, You're like that was awful.
Speaker 4: Sorry, so don't that in there.
Speaker 2: That's I was just sitting here thinking about all That.
Speaker 3: Is what it is.
Speaker 1: And this is the R and B Money podcast. The
Speaker 1: authority on all things R and B Tiffany Fred Will
Speaker 1: value you. That you are doing is absolutely amazing. Keep pushing.
Speaker 1: There has to be changed, There has to be and
Speaker 1: there have to be people fighting for it, and those
Speaker 1: people have to be supported. You have a supported on
Speaker 1: her money.
Speaker 3: R and B Money is a production of the Black
Speaker 3: Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts, from iHeart Radio, visit
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Speaker 3: to your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe to and
Speaker 3: rate our show, and you can connect with us on
Speaker 3: social media at Jay Valentine and at the Real Tank.
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