1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: A lot of these moves made sense. I'm not sure 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: if we'll see any of these guys back, but Mike 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Talkman was probably the surprise of of the grew. 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick. We're your Cubs beat 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 2: writers over at the Athletic Patrick, we have some non 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: tender news. Mike Talkman is a little bit of a surprise. 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 3: Uh. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: Nick Madrick will not so much of his surprise, and 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: there were there were others over the course of the 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: past few days, including Patrick Wisdom, Adbird, al Zalai. 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: I'm a Trey wingenter. 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: Uh. I think I got all of the non tenders. 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: Brennan Davis that is the other name, but I think 15 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: the most interesting one is Mike Talkman. 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: Uh. 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: You know was very impactful, I'd say in twenty twenty 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: three and even twenty twenty four, but even he didn't 19 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: play much at the end of the season. I thought 20 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: it was impressive how he was able to come off 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: the bench and help the team. Still showed he could 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: kind of help the team in various roles, right Like 23 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: he's been a starter, he's been a part time player, 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: He's been a barely part time player and helped in 25 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: all those roles. I you know, I think his non 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: tender came as a little surprise to me. But then 27 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: when I see all the names being non tendered, I 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: guess there's a lot of decent players out there now, 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: and there must not have been much of a trade 30 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: market for a guy like Mike Talkman. 31 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 32 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 3: I mean, this is what you dream about when you 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: get into this business, waiting around on a Friday night 34 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 3: for procedural moves of guys on the fringes of the roster. 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 3: I'm with you, though, Talkman was a bit of surprise, 36 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: But I do think, you know, if his number was 37 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,919 Speaker 3: going to be around three million, and if his playing 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 3: opportunities were going to be severely limited, I think they'd 39 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 3: much rather reallocate that money and create a little more 40 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 3: room for the. 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 4: Owen Casey, someone like that. 42 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 3: Whatever name your left handed hitter or prospect type that 43 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: you want to get more at bats for. I think 44 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: Mike Takman would be snapped up by a good team 45 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 3: very quickly. We all remember that catch, what was it? 46 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 3: The walk off against Cardinals at Wrigley this year where 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,839 Speaker 3: he had that huge hit and there's one of those 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 3: mob kind of celebrations. 49 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 50 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll just big moments, extremely professional, very thoughtful. I mean, 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: I think you probably talked to me even more than 52 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: I have. But I always got the vibe of someone 53 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 3: who could do a lot in this game whenever he's 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 3: done playing. Offers a lot of like wisdom, young path 55 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: good sense of routine. You have to to be ready 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 3: when you never know when your number is going to 57 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 3: get called. So I thought there were kind of two 58 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 3: things with this. Like I said, the they're watching every 59 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: dollar here. 60 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 4: You know. I think in. 61 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 3: Another another time, another team, maybe you would tender advert 62 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: and try to let him rehab at your facility and 63 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: hope maybe he could help in a playoff run, and 64 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: if not, you would still control his rights for I 65 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: believe another year. But look, they want to see what 66 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: they have with some of these young pitchers. They want 67 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 3: to repurpose those dollars and create some new pathways for 68 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: young talent. 69 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there were at least three names that I 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: saw on the non tender list as far as other 71 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: teams and relievers that instantly caught my attention Hoby Milner 72 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: being one of them. Lefty with who formerly of the Brewers' 73 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: Craig Council, obviously managed him. I don't know, we don't. 74 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: It's too early to say whether the Cubs have interest. 75 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: But a guy like that, a guy like Jordan Romano, 76 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: former closer, there was one other high leverage relievers. Yes, yes, 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: it makes perfect sense. These guys, these are the types 78 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: of names I would keep an eye on. But they 79 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: probably have a solid enough market too, so I can't 80 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: assume it's just the Cubs. But especially like all these 81 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: I want to say, like, like I didn't look up 82 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: all their numbers. Milner had an ERA over four, I'm 83 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: sure those. I think Vinegan had a pretty good season. 84 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: I thought he was an All Star. My guess is like, 85 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: just based on the the what I saw on social media, 86 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: Romano probably had a high RA. This is like the 87 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: pro health concern, I mean, how hell Okay, yeah, he 88 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: had season ending surgery. I believe an elbow issue. So yes, 89 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: the Blue Jays know more about that that we do. 90 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 3: But still, you know a homegrown guy who grew up 91 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 3: in Ontario, uh and was really awesome for you know, 92 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 3: three to four seasons on a playoff contending team. 93 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 4: I have interesting name to file away, no doubt. 94 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is what the Cubs have done when 95 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: they've done well, picking up relievers. Right, It's guys that 96 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: have had success in the past that are coming off 97 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: down seasons or you know, down seasons purely results wise, 98 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: and and there were underlying things that suggested that they 99 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: they could bounce back, or the Cubs saw something that 100 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: they liked. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked up 101 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: any one of those guys or or had interest in 102 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: any one of those guys. Uh, there's probably a few 103 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: other names of guys that got dfad that that they're 104 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: going to be interested. And I joke when I put 105 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: down there Nick Madrigal lower body injuries. Listen, when he 106 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: was one hundred percent healthy, that was the lone time 107 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: he looked like he could help this team. The problem 108 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: was he just never was healthy. His body just could 109 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: not survive the big league grind, like, constantly suffering from 110 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: lower body injuries, muscular injuries. That initial injury with the 111 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: White Sox just completely sidetracked his career. When he had 112 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: his legs underneath them, he seemed like a decent enough 113 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: player I think that was a month and a half 114 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: that we saw of that to the point where I 115 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: remember talking to coaches. I was in twenty three, like, 116 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: we need to give him extra days off because the 117 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: second we noticed him in the trainer's room getting extra 118 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: treatment after game, it's like, no, that's not going to work, 119 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: and like, and he was hitting and he was helping 120 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: the team, but they needed to they needed to give 121 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: him days off. And then I think soon after I 122 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: had that conversation with a coach, he got hurt trying 123 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: to track down a foul ball in like a short 124 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: like Ryfield. It was unfortunate, and that goes down as 125 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: a you know, a trade that that doesn't that's not 126 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: a winner for Jed Hoyer, right, Craig Kimberrell was probably 127 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: the best reliever on the market at that point in time, 128 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: and the Cubs got, you know, not very much value 129 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: in terms of Cody Hoyer and Nick Madrigal. So that's 130 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: that's unfortunate for them. Uh. You know, Patrick Wisdom, I 131 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: liked him as a power bat off the bench, but 132 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, at the price that he was gonna make 133 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: this year made sense. So I just think, uh, these 134 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: a lot of these moves made sense. I'm not sure 135 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: if we'll see any of these guys back, but Mike 136 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,559 Speaker 1: Talkman was probably the surprise of the group. 137 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think just an overall sense of sort of 138 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 4: time to move on. Yeah, agreed. 139 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: I think you know what we call them a business 140 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 3: a transition right right? 141 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: And uh, as far as new Cubs go, Patrick with 142 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: the Cubs did add two new names this week, h 143 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: Matt Tice backup catcher. 144 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 2: I we'll see if they. 145 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: Don't upgrade beyond that, if they go into next season 146 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: with Miguel Amaya and Matt Tice, I don't think, I 147 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: think right, Yeah, and I would, and I think Cubs 148 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: fans would have every right to be frustrated with that. 149 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: If that's when you end the season and it was 150 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: circled as an area that you had to improve, and 151 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: it's a guy that just got dfaied by a non 152 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: playoff team who's never really produced at a high level 153 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: at the big leagues. Yeah, perfectly fine to be your 154 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: third catcher and a depth piece in the minors. If 155 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: there's this is a long offseason, right, this is early on. 156 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: I wouldn't get too worried about it. If you're a 157 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: Cubs fan right now, and you're stressed about that, but 158 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: it's the reality is it could it could be. You know, 159 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: they're they're going to continue to look for an upgrade. 160 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: There is what I would say, no doubt in my mind. 161 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: And Eli Morgan's like, you know, the first or if 162 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: you want to include rob zis Risney the second step 163 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: in creating real depth in this bullpen. 164 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 4: This is. 165 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: Eli Morgan's a very good reliever. He is not a 166 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: great elite reliever. He's not going to close out games 167 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: for this team, but he can eat more than three outs. 168 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: He's consistent, he can be trusted to get, you know, 169 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: in the sixth or seventh inning some outs for and 170 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: I think that's that's what this team needs, right They 171 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: need up more than this. But this is a nice 172 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: addition for a minor leaguer who played at low A 173 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: last year and it struck out it an above a 174 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: thirty percent rate. Listen, I know prospect fans are going 175 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: to talk about a phone scene Rosario a lot, but 176 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: he's it's a boomer bust guy. It's perfectly fine guy 177 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: to move in this type of deal. 178 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, Cleveland's one of those places where you 179 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: do wonder if they could unlock something or they're just 180 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: going to give him more opportunities they would have gotten 181 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 3: in Chicago. But what really jumped out to me when 182 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: I read your piece in the Athletics Sahadev was how 183 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 3: the Cubs are lining up this they're board in terms 184 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 3: of free agent pitchers and that even though you know 185 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 3: we're in that in between stage GM meetings and Thanksgiving 186 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 3: and kind of building towards the winter meetings, it seems 187 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 3: like we have a pretty clear idea of what the 188 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: clubs are thinking in terms of those rotation upgrades. What's 189 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 3: what's your sense of the market here. 190 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we knew it wasn't gonna be Corbin Burns, right, 191 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: it seems like Max Freed is probably unlikely. Uh, just 192 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: in general, those those qualifying offer guys, it doesn't sound 193 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: like that's not been what they do in the past, 194 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: and I don't think that's changing. Uh, you know, they 195 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: can the more they talk, the more they discuss things, 196 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: these these thoughts can shift, right. So nothing's locked in 197 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: just now, but it is a deep market in that 198 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: mid tier starting what do you want to call it? 199 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: Upper middle class, the upper. 200 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: You know, like you feel like, you know, Nathan Valdi 201 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 3: has been a very good picture for a long time, 202 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 3: so I feel like, yeah, you'll kind of imply as average, 203 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 3: and I feel like what they're getting would be an upgrade. 204 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 4: And there are some guys who who do jump out 205 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 4: a little. 206 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: Bit right, and I think you look at qualifying offers 207 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: knocks out a decent chunk of those guys. Sean and 208 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: I had a great bounce back season, Louis Severino great season. 209 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: The two names that you know, I think if they 210 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: weren't attached to qualifying offer, would make some sense with 211 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: the seasons that they had. I don't think they'll be 212 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: at the top of the list when you have Nathan Nevaldi. 213 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: Nick Pivetta is a qualifying offer guy. I think he 214 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: would have made sense, but the qualifying offer like drops 215 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: his value a little bit in terms of what you 216 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: want to spend on him. But it's like, I think 217 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: the primary names that come to mind are Vivaldi, you say, Kakuchi. 218 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how the Cubs feel about Jack Flaherty, 219 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: but he doesn't have a qualifying offer. They loved him 220 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: coming out of the draft. He's a polarizing guy, you know, 221 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: so like, I don't. The shoulder is questionable. Health wise 222 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: is definitely questionable. I personally like him. There's going to 223 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: be debates in that front office from what I understand 224 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: about whether they would be in on him, and I 225 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: think the price tag may may get maybe even years 226 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: may get longer with that health history. I'm not sure 227 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: if that makes the most sense. Kakuchi's a guy that 228 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: I like. I was specifically told they need to dig 229 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: in more to understand see how he did, like how 230 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: he did what he did at the end of the season, 231 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: and I like, depending on the years, I know he's 232 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: a little older. He's thirty three, I want to say, 233 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: depending on the years, Like when you kind of figure 234 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: things out, it's like, oh, my slider is so much 235 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: better than I realized, and I'm going to use it 236 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: more type thing. Maybe he has like a late career, 237 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: like you know, jump whatever it is, like, if it's 238 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: not one of those names, they need to find someone that, 239 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, that gives them some some sort of certainty 240 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: in that in that middle of the rotation, someone that 241 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: pushes ty one to like or or equals tye and 242 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: and is right. And it could even when they're pitching 243 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: at their best look like a steal or or Shota. 244 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: Uh and and I think they're also this front office 245 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: we have to you know, they they're they're not stupid, 246 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: Like they don't expect Shota to repeat that season. They like, 247 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: that's gonna be really hard. And that's part of the 248 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: reality of it too. 249 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I wouldn't only get one of these guys, 250 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 3: but there's also that bucket of Walker Bueller, Shane Bieber. 251 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: There's some interesting names out there. I think the Shaman 252 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 3: I as, the Severarinos, even Jack Flaherty, Like those are 253 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: the guys you signed last. 254 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 4: Offseason, right right, It's like, yeah, the. 255 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: Whole Brandon Morrow theory, just on the starting pitching side. 256 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: So I think, you know, I remember it even a 257 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 3: name a couple of years ago, like Andrew Heaney, right, 258 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 3: like some some guy that maybe we're not thinking of 259 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 3: or like, I think the qualifying offer is just like 260 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 3: the final kind of disqualification from the Cubs perspective for 261 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 3: a lot of those guys who had like great, like 262 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 3: bounce back years and are. 263 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 4: Looking to cash in. 264 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 265 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely, uh Patrick. If if the Cubs are going to 266 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: upgrade their their offense, they're gonna have to get creative. 267 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 4: Right. 268 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: We've talked about this, but now we're hearing more about it. 269 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: What is the can they move Cody Bellinger? What is 270 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: the market for Cody Bellinger? Is it silly for a team? 271 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: This is something I've been thinking about. Is it silly 272 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: for a team like the Cubs to be looking to 273 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: shed pay role essentially to add right to have more 274 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: flexibility because Cody Bellinger kind of has I know, we've 275 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: seen him really bad before, Like, maybe not Cubs. The 276 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: Cubs haven't seen him really bad, but Ella his last 277 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: few years in LA were bad, right, They're not good offensively. 278 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: He's healthy though, right, So I think we kind of 279 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: have a floor for him. We know there's upside there 280 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: to be, like carrying offense. I think sometimes and I 281 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: get in this trap too, like where you're like, well, 282 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: they need an upgrade, we need a shining new toy, 283 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: like you have to find someone else. Right. If the 284 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: argument is they need flexibility to play some younger guys 285 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: that they think are ready to impact the team, I 286 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: can get with that, But I also think, like he 287 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: gives you some certainty. I go back and forth on 288 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: the idea of what it makes sense to trade Cody Bellinger. 289 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: I think, I what I if that happens, and if 290 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: they pull this off, I'd like to know what the 291 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: other moves are before before they do it, you know 292 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: what I mean? 293 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like we're gonna hear Cody Bellinger trade 294 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 3: rumors at Cubs convention and like as pitchers and catchers report, Like, 295 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm with you on I think the 296 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 3: floor is pretty high, well established now. I don't think 297 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 3: the ceiling is gonna be very easy for him to 298 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 3: reach anymore. 299 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 4: But I don't know. 300 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 3: Seeing his name in the lineup seat washing him play 301 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 3: every day. He's just a good all around player. And like, 302 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 3: do you really think Peko Armstrong and Michael Bush are 303 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 3: gonna play like one hundred and fifty five games next 304 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 3: year a piece and lock down those positions for years 305 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 3: to Maybe they do. I mean, they're they're good players too. 306 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 3: I'm not ruling that out, but I don't know. There's 307 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 3: a front office that is kind of obsessed with worst 308 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 3: case scenarios. It's a manager who's really good at moving 309 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 3: the pieces around. I think he fits. I think he 310 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 3: makes sense. I don't see why you have to trade 311 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 3: him unless there's some sort of like money crunch, like 312 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 3: an extreme money crunch that we're not aware of, or 313 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 3: you know, some team that has secretly been coveting Cody 314 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 3: Bellinger for a long time, which I sort of doubt 315 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 3: considering how we've seen this kind of free agent cycle 316 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 3: go the last couple of years. 317 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: Right. 318 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: I think this scenario is Wan Soto signs somewhere in 319 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, early December some point, and the Cubs are 320 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: positioned to, you know, to market Bellinger as the fallback 321 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: lefty out versatile outfielder, slash first base man, and you know, veteran, 322 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: good defender, healthy winner, all these things, right, good clubhouse guy, 323 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: good attitude, all the things that you look for in 324 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: a player. That's how they market him. Our colleague at 325 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: the Athletic Ken rosenthal Is reported that money is a 326 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: factor for other teams here. You know, it's thirty two 327 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: point five million dollars essentially twenty seven point five for 328 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: this season, five million dollar buyout. 329 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: That's a chunk. 330 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: That's a chunk of change. And I think the idea 331 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: that it could be a two year deal also changes 332 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: some some thoughts, So you know, it could just be 333 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: a money dump like that that either means it's it's 334 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: changed exchanging quote unquote bad contracts or or getting a 335 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: lower level prospect that isn't highly thought of. I don't 336 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: like that. I just don't I get it. And I 337 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: and I need to see the full moves, like I 338 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: said before, like what what else are you doing? But 339 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: I just like it doesn't feel right for this organization 340 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: to have to do something like that. But I guess 341 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: that's where we are and and and it's not like 342 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: it's just this weird in between phase right for them. 343 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: It's not like they're cheap and and have no money, 344 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: but it's also not like they can flex their financial 345 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: might in any way. Uh. And that that leaves me 346 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: like a little like with a bad taste in my 347 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: mouth when I when I'm talking about things like this, 348 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: like it's it's like, come on, like there's I can 349 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: also understand the argument that listen, he just clogs things 350 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: up as far as trying to as far as trying 351 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: to upgrade the lineup, right, that that's fair. I will 352 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: I will listen to that argument more than you know. 353 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: If you're telling me it's about money, I just I 354 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: don't love that concept. But it's the reality that they're 355 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: faced with. 356 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 3: Plus, this isn't like year one of Jed and THEO 357 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 3: in Chicago and Bellinger's like Alfonso Soriano, Like this team 358 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: has to win next year, and Bellinger can help you 359 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: in a lot of different ways. Now, look, there's no 360 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 3: doubt him coming back as a sign that stuff went 361 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 3: wrong last year, whether it's his health, the Wrigley weather, 362 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 3: just the general sort of state of. 363 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 4: The team last year. 364 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: Like those Boris opt out deals are meant to be 365 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 3: opted out, like that's the that's the plan. But I 366 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 3: also have a hard time thinking of this as this 367 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: like albatross awful contract considering how pleased everyone seemed to 368 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 3: be at spring training last year of oh, Belli's back, 369 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 3: and you know Boris getting the press conference with that 370 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 3: up there, Like, I don't know, it seemed like a 371 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 3: pretty good outcome last spring for everyone. And I think, 372 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 3: you know, theoretically, sure, it makes sense. In reality, though, 373 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 3: I just have a hard time seeing the Cubs finding 374 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 3: a match and executing a deal of that. 375 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: Magnitude, right. And here's the thing, here's here's my final 376 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: thought on it. So I think with all the conversations 377 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: we've had and everybody we've talked to over the past 378 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: whatever six months really that we've been talking about the 379 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: idea of what will he or won't he opt in. 380 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: I think it came as a little bit of a 381 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: surprise to that front office. I think they expected him 382 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: to opt out and when he didn't, and I think 383 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: he did so didn't do it for he feels very 384 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: comfortable there and he wasn't thrilled with this season, and 385 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: he wants and he wants to show that I can 386 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: have a better season. But because of that, I'm wondering 387 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: if Jed and Carter and the rest of the front 388 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: office kind of had a plan without his money on 389 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: the books, so it would essentially be getting like moving 390 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: him for you know, a nondescript prospect, would essentially be 391 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: like him opting out right and then and then them 392 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: acting in that fashion. So I come back to what 393 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: I said originally, I want to see what the rest 394 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: of the moves are. If this is what they're doing. 395 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 4: That's a good's I hadn't thought of it that way. 396 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: That's and and I'm giving them the benefit of the 397 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: doubt when I say that, you know, I'm being very 398 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: kind to them. I think, and and looking at it 399 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: an optimistic way, but I think I think you could 400 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: look at it in that fashion and and it all 401 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: depends on what they do. It's the same thing with 402 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: Matt like what we were talking about with Matt Tice, like 403 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: if this is the move, then then it's not really 404 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: like fans should should be upset if this is how 405 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: you are saying, like, hey, catcher is a really important spot, 406 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: and then you go and get you know, a guy 407 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: that was essentially or that was dea fade, so you 408 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: know that that's that's where they are. This is I 409 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: like some of the moves they've made. I I'm not 410 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: sure if if the others are are moving the needle much. 411 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: It is not even December, so not not any reason 412 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: for fans to panic or get get too upset about anything. 413 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 4: This is. 414 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: This is like the off season hasn't even started. I 415 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: think the Cubs off season will rarely get going when 416 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: when Wan Soto signs, and then we'll have a better 417 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: idea of how things will look. I wouldn't even be 418 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: surprised if in the next two weeks there's more pitchers 419 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: signed by the Cubs or just more moves in general. 420 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: So we're just getting started with this all Patrick, it 421 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: is about to be the heart of heart, heart of. 422 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 4: Hot Stove season. 423 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: Everyone have a good Thanksgiving. We'll we'll be back. We're 424 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: gonna take a little break here from podcasting, but but 425 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: you guys all have good Thanksgiving. Thanks so much for listening. 426 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: Make sure to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe on YouTube. We're 427 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: doing great on that. I really appreciate you guys subscribing. 428 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,479 Speaker 1: Continue to do that. Look at our lovely faces and 429 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: be the true sickos. People like that I call them sickos. 430 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 4: They enjoyed that. 431 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: The response I got on Twitter was another social media 432 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: was was good. So I maybe maybe we should have 433 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: you know, northside sickos as our as our I like 434 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: it hashtag. Thanks for listening to everyone. Make sure to 435 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: subscribe to The Athletic as well, where Patrick and I 436 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: are writing regularly on on this offseason. Thanks take care.