WEBVTT - Marie Curie: Nobel-Winning Scientist 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:08.440 This was one of my discovery. She was actually asked 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:13.080 by the Nobel Academy to not come to accept the 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:17.200 Nobel Prize because it would embarrass the king. Uh And 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:21.480 she wrote back, I have always believed that my the 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.239 Nobel Prize was being given from my scientific work, and 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.319 my private life had nothing to do with it. And 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:32.120 she went and accepted the Nobel Prize. That was author 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.760 Susan Quinn talking about Marie Curie, the first person ever 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:41.240 to be honored with two Nobel Prizes, one for physics 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.040 in h three and the second one for chemistry in 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:50.120 nineteen eleven. I'm a land Ververe and this is Seneca's 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.160 one women to hear. We are bringing you one hundred 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.360 of the world's most inspiring and history making women you 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:03.440 need to hear. Marie Cury is one of the most 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:08.520 famous scientists in history. As has been noted, she discovered 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:14.160 polonium and radium, champion the use of radiation in medicine, 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:21.000 and fundamentally changed our understanding of radio activity. To get 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.479 a picture of who Marie Cury really was, we talked 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:29.800 to Susan Quinn, author of the award winning biography Marie Curie, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:34.840 A Life listen and learn why Marie Cury is one 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:42.240 of Seneca's one women to hear. I'm here today with 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.560 Susan Quinn, renowned author, and we're going to be talking 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:52.559 about the great woman scientist, Marie Cury. Welcome, Susan, Thank 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.600 you glad to be here. Well, you certainly had a 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:01.000 worthy subject in your book, Marie Cury a life. Let's 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.320 talk about her a little bit. How is she best 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.520 remembered and what were her greatest contributions to science. I 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:14.000 think she's best remembered as a courageous woman scientist at 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.160 a time when that was a very difficult role to 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:22.840 have in life, and surmounted great obstacles um in her life. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:29.200 I certainly think her greatest contribution to science was her 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:36.080 discovery of radio activity. Uh. Her discoveries of the um 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:40.120 of the elements, first polonium she named her first discovery 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.840 of an element polonium after her native poland and second 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:51.320 radium are often cited as her great discoveries. But what 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:56.160 was even more important than those discoveries of elements and 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:04.160 others later on was the underlying discovery that the elements 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.160 are in a constant state of transformation and that radio 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:13.120 activity is the reason and others went on then to 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.080 really understand the nature structure of the atom and of 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.480 the nucleus, and that came out of her discoveries which 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:26.480 she shares really importantly with Pierre Cury, her husband and partner. So, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.640 in writing your award winning biography, what was some of 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.160 the most inspiring and surprising things you learned about her? 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.720 I came to this biography having read her daughter Eve 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:43.200 Curie's biography Madame Curie, which I've since learned was read 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.800 by many many young women. I was very inspired by 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:53.920 that book. I actually quoted in my high school graduation speech. Uh. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:04:01.680 But having been out in the world and writing about women, UM, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.760 I began to suspect that that biography was really an 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:09.800 only partial version of her of her life, and that 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.680 turned out to be very much true. UM. My great 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:18.880 discovery in the process of working on this book was 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.760 that her life did not end when Pierre Cury was 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.200 tragically killed. He was run over by a horse and 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:30.200 cart in streets of Paris. I died in nineteen o six, 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.400 not long only a few years after he and Mari 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.159 Cury won the Nobel Prize or first Nobel Prize. She 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.839 one another later. So he died in n six and 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.919 um Eve Curious book portrays that as kind of the 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:50.360 end of her romantic life, and in some ways that 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.240 the film based on the book made it kind of 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.800 the end of her life. But she's often portrayed as 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.400 kind of a tragic grieving widow from then on. But 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.839 she lived on for a lot of years until nineteen 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:08.240 thirty four, and not long after Pierre Dodge, she formed 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:13.880 a relationship with his best friend, Pierre Longeva um At 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:20.120 Paul Langeva and Paul Lageman was an unhappily married man 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:26.200 who was very very conflicted and and and shared a 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.880 lot of that lury, and she was this grieving widow 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.600 and they fell in love and they had a love 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.720 affair which became a great scandal in France. And one 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:37.719 of the things I discovered and the course of working 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:42.560 on the book, was that Curie had written her book quickly, 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.359 and a large part because she wanted to tell the 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.640 story her way, and she wanted to not tell that story. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.360 But I discovered that story to be really evidence of 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:59.120 Mari Cury's great courage. And it became this huge scandal 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.400 because they were love letters discovered by your Paul launch 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:08.320 Abouts wife and all the scandal sheets then attacked Marie 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:13.520 Curie um as a foreign woman and a woman who 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:18.280 was destroying a French household. All kinds of xenophobic attitudes 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.320 and hostile attitudes towards her came out largely, I feel, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.680 and I argue in my book because she was this 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.440 prominent and successful woman. Um. You know, it was not 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.760 shocking at all for French men to have a love affair, 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:35.960 but for her to have a love affair was shocking. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.680 And she won a second Nobel Prize in nineteen eleven 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.039 and was that was exactly at the time of this 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.159 great scandal, and she was actually this was one of 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.280 my discovery. She was actually asked by the Swedish had 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:57.200 by the Nobel Academy to not come to accept the 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.320 Nobel Prize because it would embarrass the being uh and 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.599 she wrote back, I have always believed that my the 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.359 Nobel Prize was being given from my scientific work and 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.440 my private life had nothing to do with it. And 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:15.360 she went and accepted the Nobel Prize. Her sister came 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.440 from Poland to support her. But it was a very 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.760 difficult experience and traumatic experience for her, and she was 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:28.800 unwell afterwards for a year. So that story became a 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:33.200 very powerful story for me, and one that I felt 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:38.080 was not scandalous or shocking, but but really evidence of 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:43.200 her her courage and one of the numerous times she 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:51.200 had to overcome hostility um of the established uh scientists 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:56.120 in France towards a successful woman. She also applied to 0:07:56.160 --> 0:08:00.640 become a member of the French Academy a Science and 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:05.000 was rejected. Uh. Never. This is a woman who, you know, 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:12.119 want two Nobel Prizes. So she um very brave woman 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.520 and tremendously strong, and she had this rich, full life 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.680 and that was part of it. It's just fascinating to 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.240 listen to you describe what she was up against. And 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:26.640 it's not the first time, of course, so that we 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:31.400 know about double standards that affect women so differently from men. 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.120 So she's in the science field that in and of 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.640 itself was not the most obvious place for a woman 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.920 to get her start in a profession. You mentioned that 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.760 she had to overcome many obstacles, including the obstacles later 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.360 in life, But what did she have to overcome to 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.840 get into science in the first place. I think a 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.839 lot she was Polish. Grew up in Warsaw in a 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.440 family of teachers. They were really uh. They came from 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.160 the gentry, but they had they were impoverished because of 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.000 the oppressive rule of Russians Are. So she grew up 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:18.000 under uh, the rule of the czars, which forbid young 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.120 people in school from speaking their native language Polish. They 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.320 had to do that in secret. Um. She grew up 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:31.480 in a passionately patriotic, a family that was very much 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:36.840 they're very much Polish matriots, who recited Polish poetry at home, 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:41.440 and I had this other public life that they had 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.439 to maintain. So she learned about resisting authority early on. 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.439 She and her best friend used to on their way 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.920 to school every day, they used to pass a monument 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.400 to the Russians are and they would spit on it. 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:59.079 So she she had, you know, this kind of spirit. 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:03.720 She was youngest in the family. They were all interested 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.640 in science, and their father taught science, and or she 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:08.800 would say that they would go to look at the 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:13.240 sunset and he would explain to them what caused the sunset. 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:18.040 You know, he's always teaching. So she had this background 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.600 of intellectual family and curiosity, and she was a great 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.760 student from early on, but they had no money. And secondly, 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.439 there was no place to go to university in Poland 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.240 for women. Um, so the only options were either to 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.160 go to Russia or to go to Paris. And many 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.319 many Poles went to Paris, but not that many women. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:46.320 But however, her sister Brown went to Paris and they 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.400 they formed a pack. Brona went first, and while she 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:54.280 was studying and she became a doctor, Marian stayed behind 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.240 in Poland and worked as a governess under really difficult 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:06.040 circumstances out in the country. Free Um isolated of and 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.240 endured that for a number of years, saved her money, 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.200 and then when Bronia had finished um, she supported Brillian. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.400 When Bronie was finished, Maria went off to Paris the study. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:21.400 So she already had to overcome being a foreigner and 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:26.560 m learning science and math and everything that she learned 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:32.160 in a second language, although she was a wonderful linguist um. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:37.640 And then of course she had to overcome uh the 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.600 attitudes all around her about about women. And she she 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.360 was one of the few, one of the few women 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.000 at the Sorbun studying at the Sorbun, and she graduated 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.920 at the top of her class and in physics one 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.520 year and then the next year in mathematics, and that 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:01.000 was around the time that she met Pierre. She had 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.760 the good luck of meeting a very supportive and loving 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:09.520 man who helped out with taking care of children and 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.480 all the concerns of the household and his of course, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.600 his death was was just a devastating blow that she 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.920 had to overcome also, um and there was a period 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.320 when she wrote her journal that she didn't want to 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.800 go on living because she was so the rest So 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.600 there was a lot, a lot to overcome. And then 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.920 I think one of the one of the reasons that 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:42.800 she became very she became very involved in the effort 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.240 during World War One. She really caught up the idea 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.800 in fact of going to the front during World War 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.520 One with X ray bobiles. They were essentially cars fitted 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.000 out with X ray equipment, which was a very new, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.920 very new thing, and she and a team of people 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.000 she trained went out in these X raymobiles and they 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.600 were able then to X ray soldiers right close to 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.640 the front and very quickly, and it saved many lives. 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:17.520 And I think that, uh, the motivation for that was 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.600 of course her patriotism her caring and she considered herself 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.040 not just Polish but French. But I also think it 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:30.000 was a way of sort of rehabilitating herself and her 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:35.480 her reputation after this scandal of the laugen Affre, so 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:43.680 once again overcoming, amazingly overcoming up great obstacles. And she 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.200 had two children, two girls that she raised, both of 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.480 whom grew up into amazing adults. And of course her 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.720 daughter Garin became a scientist and herself won the Nobel 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.360 Prize with her husband there Julio, and then the other 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.320 daughter wrote the book Madame Curie. But she was also 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:04.400 resist since she was a concert pianist, an amazing woman 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:11.160 who lived well past so remarkable life in just a 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.200 lot of ways. Yeah. And the more the more that 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:19.960 you share that with us, the more remarkable she is, obviously, 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.520 from what I guess most of us know about her, 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:29.120 which aren't these kinds of of details, clearly very resilient 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.720 as well. When she met Pierre, had she intended at 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.080 that point to go back and live in Poland or 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.840 was she comfortable staying in France. Oh, she very much 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.640 intended to go back to Poland, and she would, she 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.960 writes to one of her friends, her Polish women friends, 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.160 you know that she she feels terrible about not going back. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.520 Her her sister Brauna went back and found it this 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:59.440 sanate at TV Sana territorium Um, and that that was 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.840 really I think grew out of the fact that they 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.960 lost their mother to tuberculosis and a sister when they 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:10.280 were young. I had another loss in her life. So anyway, 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.960 she was very committed to phil to the Polish cause 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.040 and wanted to go back as a scientist to Poland. 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.000 And then, uh, she said in this letter, but then 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.520 I met him and we became attached to each other 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.320 and we couldn't live without each other. So what was 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.000 I to do? It feels like it was with a 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.320 genuine conflict for her, But because of Pierre, she stayed 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:39.400 in the front. Seneca has one hundred women to hear 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:51.560 will be back after this short break. And then you 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:56.400 had mentioned her resisting authority as a child, growing up 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.200 in a very Polish nationalistic household at a time when 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.760 Poland was part of the Russian Empire under disourist authority, 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.480 she belonged to a revolutionary group as a student. What 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.880 did that revolutionary group do? And perhaps what did that 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:18.120 say about her, her own views, her own determination. It 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.840 was came naturally in this family. I mean, her mother 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.240 had been a teacher in a school, a private school 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:29.160 that she attended, and they had two curricula. One was 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.280 for the every day and then otherwise for the day 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.440 the Russian inspectors came and on that day, you know, 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.720 no Polish was spoken and no Polish history was dealt with, 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.720 But on the other days it was. So it did 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.600 come naturally. She as a because there was no higher 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.920 education for women in Poland. She was part of something 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:55.360 called a Flying University, which was an organization of women 0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:00.880 who met and studied together secretly. I'd say her her 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:08.440 sympathies were definitely with Polish nationalism. Her kind of focus 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:14.000 was definitely on on finding a way to to get 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:20.520 education for herself and to contribute through that that way. 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.080 Let's go forward a little bit to the time when 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.439 she has to make her way without her husband after 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.920 his death, when he was killed in the road accident 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:37.080 that you mentioned. She is able to assume the position 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.440 he had as professor of general physics at the University 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.040 of Paris. She became the first woman, I understand, to 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.720 hold this position. What was she like in that role? 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.439 What was she like as a leader? How was that 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.320 transition for her? She hated all the public acclaim and 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.119 attention and fuss. She always did, and there was something 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.440 and she suffered miserably from that because after they won 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.000 the Nobel Prize together um in nineteen o three, she 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.119 and Pierre they became a kind of an item. This 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.720 was you know, in some ways this was the positive 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:18.320 side of a public acclaim. Later she got the negative side, um. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:23.119 And it it helped them, um to get a lab um, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.840 but it also interfered with their work because everybody wanted 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.119 to interview everybody in the family, including Pierre complained at 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.920 one point they even want to interview our cat. And 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.320 they both hated it, hated it. So But then she was, yeah, 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.720 the first woman to teach at the sore Bun and 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.760 it was also a big publicity event. You know, people 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.920 came to sit in at the balcony and all their 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:53.720 uh and uh and to watch this event. As a teacher, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.680 I think she was. I think she was probably very 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.560 down to earth and matter of fact um, and she 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:07.200 would have been very well prepared um and uh. There 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.400 was one I really don't know about exactly what her 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.560 style was in the classroom, but I know that she 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.160 she had actually for a little while she and some 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.840 of her scent as friends took their children out of 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:26.680 regular school and taught them, And she was very good 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:32.520 at at teaching young children with um hands on experiments. 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.600 You had mentioned that her life went on in many ways. 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.600 She achieved even greater distinction in some ways, got a 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.760 second Nobel prize after her husband's death. But it must 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.280 have been hard for her to make that transition from 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.240 working so closely with him, being a co researcher with him, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:58.200 and then moving into working alone. Oh, it was very hard, 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:04.639 she um. After he died, she kept a diary which 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:10.159 was really very important. Disc It had been there, but 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.600 no one else had kind of used it as I 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.199 did in my biography. But she wrote to in her 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.359 diary as though he were still alive, and she addressed 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.760 him in these a long series of letters, and she 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.080 described the lab and coming back to the lab and 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.320 bringing some flowers from the country where they've been together, 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.520 and writing that the flowers are alive my new art, 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.679 and how is that possible? So her her grief was 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:42.560 was immense, Um but her way of dealing with grief 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.480 was to go to work, and she was a very 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.720 hard worker. And her whole isolation of radium in the 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:52.680 beginning and radioactivity evolved reducing this large quantities of pitch 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.239 blend into a very much much much squalor quantity in 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:00.719 order to get this radioactive effect. So sherla grew and 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.239 her fame grew, and she focused on her work, you know. 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:06.560 Um And of course she had the comfort for a 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.680 while if the affair with Paul Lage vain, but mostly 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:15.640 mostly she worked and her children attest to that. Eve 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:20.480 my Eve Curie whom my interview talked about her mother's 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.399 complete obsession with the lab and with her work. You know, 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.200 that was that was her life and it was her salvation. Really. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.760 So you mentioned her daughter who one especially was so 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.040 involved in her research efforts with her. What was their 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:42.520 relationship like very close, playful loving, But her daughter Urine 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.960 was also like her, all business. So but we have 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.720 some letters that they exchanged. She became, her daughter became 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:54.000 really first things she became involved in was the X 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.720 Ray mobiles and she Urine went on her own in 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.639 X raymobile to the bell in front and she writes 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:04.280 back to her mother, and we have some of those 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:08.000 letters back and forth. But they were very involved in 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.480 each other's work. And when Iran and her husband Pure 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:16.000 Jolio discompanied their great discovery of artificial radio activity, they 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:20.080 the first person who come and see their successful experiment 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:24.040 was their mother was Marie Curie. Uh. So she was 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:31.119 deeply involved in her daughter's work. So she dies really 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.440 at an early age in some ways, in her sixties, 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.359 mid sixties, I think, and she died from anemia which 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:42.720 had to do with her exposure to radio activity. Is 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:47.320 that the case. Yes, that has been pretty much the 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:51.359 conclusion and the one that I went along with in 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.960 my book. But I've since um talked with some people 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.960 in the field of of of the radio active exposure 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.760 and think that that her work actually on the X 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.160 raymobiles and her exposure to X rays may have been 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.960 actually more harmful than her work in the laboratory. But 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:15.120 the combination of things, there can be no doubt um 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:20.119 contributed to her anemia and her relatively early death. Uh. 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:25.720 And evidence of that is that her daughter Rana also 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.920 died fairly young, and Eve, the daughter who didn't work 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:35.400 in the lab, lived over one hundred, So I think, 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:40.120 you know, probably had they not been exposed to the 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:44.679 radioactive elements that they worked with, both both Marie and 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:48.520 her daughter Gren might have lived longer lives. So she 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:53.600 was clearly remarkable in so many ways. What lessons can 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.720 we take from her life? What lessons do you take 0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:01.600 from her life? Well, stick up for your self for 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:04.360 your work, I would say, I mean, I think that 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:06.760 that letter she writes where she says, I've always felt 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.399 the Nobel Prize was being given for my work and 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.240 my personal life had nothing to do with it. And 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:18.080 U don't allow a kind of double standard let's operated 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:22.720 in the past to be inflicted on you as a woman. 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:26.640 I think that's hopefully it's less likely to happen now, 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:31.120 but it still happens, and we still have different expectations. Uh, 0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:36.200 you know. I think was Elizabeth Warren who said recently, 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:40.960 you know, just remember, you know, being forceful is not 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:45.040 a good look. Well, and it's it's an important lessen 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:50.240 to today. So we can learn about her own resilience 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:54.680 and stick toudo nous if you will, marching forward to U, 0:24:56.200 --> 0:25:00.560 which is considerably marching forward from these times women were 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:05.520 awarded Nobel Prizes last year in both chemistry and physics. 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.960 How do you think Madame Curie paved the way for 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:14.240 those accomplishments. Well, I think I'm sure those women would 0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:18.760 tell you that she was inspiring to them. Um. I 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:22.280 think we could also ask why did it take so long? 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:25.840 Indeed at uh you know, there were a number of 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:30.480 earlier instances of women who should have been recognized and 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:34.760 were I mean Rosalind Franklin comes to mind, and Lisa 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:43.199 Mikener uh so, um Um, Marie curious a line, having 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:47.160 been part of a relationship really probably is what allowed 0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:53.720 her to be given the Nobel Prize because the first time, um, 0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:58.360 there was a possibility and nomination, Pierre was nominated alone, 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:03.560 and he wrote to them and said, for reasons of symmetry, 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:05.919 do you think it would be good to have to 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:10.000 award the Nobel Prize to Marie and me both? So 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.520 he stuck up for her, and the following year she 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:16.520 was named along with Pierre and I'll Rebecca up so 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:20.439 uh So, I think one of the reasons that was 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:24.040 possible was because of Pierre, this ally she had and 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.159 because she was a part of part of partnership with 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:31.920 the man that took a long time, too long. I'm 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:36.120 very glad these women have both been recognized that there 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.000 were others who should have been in word. Well, she 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:44.240 certainly was pioneering. And Um, it's good to know, albeit 0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:49.760 so so late in coming, that we are making at 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:54.040 least a modicum of progress in this regard. Um, Susan, 0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:58.080 this has been a fascinating conversation, just learning so much 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:02.320 about Marie Curie. I know, before we close, I do 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:05.280 want to ask you about the book. I think it's 0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:08.720 Eleanor and Hick. You want to tell us about that. Yes, 0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:12.880 it's called Eleanor and Hick, the love Affair that shaped 0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:18.800 the First Lady. And it's the story of Eleanor Roosevelt's 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:25.280 romantic relationship with a journalist named Lorena Hiccock. Um, and 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:31.200 uh it was. It's a very it's a very um 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:35.960 touching story, I would say, of a a romance that 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.280 lasted maybe four or five years, and then for Louie 0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:44.360 Hiccock lasted for a lifetime. She and the friendship went 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:49.639 on until until Eleanor Roosevelt died. Um, and Lorena Hipcock 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:53.439 really did help Eleanor Roosevelt to find a way to 0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:57.680 be a new kind of first lady UM independently UM, 0:27:57.920 --> 0:28:02.280 have a relationship with the press, and write about her 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:06.680 life in her column My Day. Those were things that 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:14.880 wouldn't have happened without Marina Hincock. So that's that's that book. Well, 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:20.879 you keep putting out interesting stories about historical figures. Uh. 0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:23.560 And we're just so grateful to you to have had 0:28:23.640 --> 0:28:28.520 this chance to learn more through you about Marie Cury today. 0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:34.520 Thank you so much, Susan Quinn. Thank you. There's so 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:38.040 much more to Marie Cury than I ever knew thanks 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:42.040 to Susan Quinn. Here are three things I took from 0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:47.480 that conversation. First, Marie Curry was strong enough to stand 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.560