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Speaker 1: Podcast playground.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to taking a walk, an excursion to converse, connects,

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Speaker 2: and catch up at a cool location with some of

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Speaker 2: the most interesting people you can find. Here's buzz Night.

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Speaker 3: We're here in beautiful Hudson Valley, New York, in the

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Speaker 3: town of Rhinebeck, and I'm so excited to be taking

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Speaker 3: a walk with the awesome Peter Himmelman, Emmy and Grammy

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Speaker 3: nominated songwriter, author, artist, founder and one of the coolest

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Speaker 3: people I can't wait to meet up with to take

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Speaker 3: a walk.

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Speaker 4: Well, Peter, I am so excited to meet you, and

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Speaker 4: I'm so excited to.

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Speaker 5: Be taking a walk with you. It's a good day

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Speaker 5: for a walk. It's it's I want to say it's frosty.

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Speaker 5: I'd say it's bracing. Trying to get these donkeys attention.

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Speaker 5: A mother and daughter donkey set up. I don't have

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Speaker 5: a carrot with me, but sometimes she'll come without a carrot.

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Speaker 5: A singer, a song, Hey donkey, what's going on? Tan

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Speaker 5: and brown donkey could be too early in the morning.

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Speaker 5: That song wasn't really didn't seem to really excite her.

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Speaker 1: We'll move on. We didn't have their coffee. The song

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Speaker 1: was good. They didn't have a coffee.

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Speaker 4: I think sometimes the coffee is the key, especially for

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Speaker 4: the donkeys, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they need something.

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Speaker 5: The thing about donkeys is, just like they say, just

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Speaker 5: like the stereotype, they're stubborn. You can't really call them

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Speaker 5: or bust them around. They're also very intelligent and they

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Speaker 5: also need to have. If you buy a donkey, you

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Speaker 5: need to buy two because they get really lonesome.

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Speaker 4: I am so glad to meet you and so excited

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Speaker 4: that we're taking a walk. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 4: the time.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's my pleasure. It's a beautiful day.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I was prepared for for down, poor sleet hail.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me too.

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Speaker 5: And I once read one of these books that people

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Speaker 5: read in the bathroom, Yes, one of these. It was

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Speaker 5: called Wisdom for Men, and I'm like, well this is

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Speaker 5: you know, you're in the bathroom, got a time, and

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Speaker 5: well what's this all about? And it was not so great,

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Speaker 5: But there was one thing that caught me and it

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Speaker 5: changed my entire Life's just one little thing. There's no

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Speaker 5: such thing as bad weather, only different types of weather,

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Speaker 5: and all the weather is good. Sometimes you say, well

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Speaker 5: it's a crappy day out it's really not. Is a gray,

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Speaker 5: silvery sky that much worse than a sunny sky? No,

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Speaker 5: So it's made me open up to whatever the day

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Speaker 5: brains just a bit.

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Speaker 4: So how do you use taking a walk to help

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Speaker 4: you in a creative process or just how to start

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Speaker 4: the day off?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I walk a lot.

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Speaker 5: Aside from other physical activities, just.

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Speaker 1: Walking is well.

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Speaker 5: First of all, I think I have a tendency, like

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Speaker 5: a lot of people these days, to kind of be

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Speaker 5: completely lost in my intellect. But there's something about the

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Speaker 5: visceral part of our being, the temporal part of our being,

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Speaker 5: that gets into the pictures. It naturally should when you're walking,

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Speaker 5: and that actually influences the thoughts that kind of calms

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Speaker 5: them down and makes things a little bit more clear,

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Speaker 5: think of things that you wouldn't think of otherwise.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like Jane's addiction in the shower thinking. You know,

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Speaker 1: we like that song. Everyone does.

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Speaker 5: It has to do with the idea, you know, at least,

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Speaker 5: the concept of why it is that people have thoughts

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Speaker 5: in the shower.

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Speaker 1: It's not often, it's not uncommon, but it's.

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Speaker 5: Not often that we're nude and have this warm water

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Speaker 5: falling on our bodies. It causes a differentiation and experience,

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Speaker 5: and therefore a differentiation and our thought process.

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Speaker 4: I was thinking of two things for me personally that

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Speaker 4: interfere would take it a walk. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: this resonates with you. One is you're off on that

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Speaker 4: walk and then suddenly you discover, oh my god, I

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Speaker 4: got this pebble in my shoes.

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Speaker 5: I had a pebble on my shoe this morning. Well,

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Speaker 5: I mean you got lace up shoes, so that's different.

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Speaker 5: I just got a boot and I kicked it off.

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Speaker 4: And then the other one, the dreaded the sock that's misbehaving.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Now here's what my experience with the misbehaving s

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Speaker 5: which I had this morning as well. It usually lasts

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Speaker 5: only about a minute and a half. It calms down

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Speaker 5: very quickly. Let's see we can walk over the pond.

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Speaker 5: Let's see this is where this morning there's this semi

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Speaker 5: mythical creature although it's real, just gives the illusion of

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Speaker 5: being mythical, called a blue heron, which alighted here on

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Speaker 5: this pond.

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Speaker 1: There it is. Yeah, that's the other one. Look at that.

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Speaker 5: There were two of them. Oh my god, Yes, see

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Speaker 5: what I'm saying. Yeah, it almost like looks like a

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Speaker 5: pterodactyl or something. Yeah, with softer feathers. Amazing spectacular and

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Speaker 5: you wonder like, how does it get aloft?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 5: It's I don't know, it's pal took off about fifteen

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Speaker 5: minutes earlier.

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Speaker 4: And when you see a sight such as that, doesn't

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Speaker 4: that set the day up?

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Speaker 1: It does? I mean especially that though, I just think

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Speaker 1: that it's a.

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Speaker 5: It's a good omen Oh wow, it could make up

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Speaker 5: what it is. We can just improvise. You know that

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Speaker 5: something that feels very weighty and gray is actually can

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Speaker 5: be very light and can kind of send trendscend all

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Speaker 5: sorts of heavy problems and things like that. It turns

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Speaker 5: and looks at you and winks, blesses the whole day.

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Speaker 1: I love that aspect. I don't know that it winked,

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Speaker 1: but I maybe it did. I say it did. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it did. Yeah, it probably winked, I say it did

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Speaker 1: for sure. Wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So do you have a particular time of the day

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Speaker 4: for you that you find your most creative time?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Probably like this in the morning. I like to get

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Speaker 5: going and then pretty early sometimes I'll you know, have

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Speaker 5: a kind of a set routine every day, get up

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Speaker 5: and you know, I do some prayers every day in

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Speaker 5: the morning. Takes me about forty five minutes. Then maybe

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Speaker 5: I'll exercise a bit or walk and then I get

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Speaker 5: to work. I answer you know, letters and emails and

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Speaker 5: write a bit strama guitar. It's kind of like a

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Speaker 5: fire man, you know, the life of a musician or artist.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of sitting around, you know, eating, check in,

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Speaker 5: waiting when the fire bell goes off. And maybe that's

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Speaker 5: analogous to a gig or you have to deliver a

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Speaker 5: song or write a song, then you're on it.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of.

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Speaker 5: I wouldn't say it's just kind of wasted time, but

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Speaker 5: it's time spending thought. And in some ways, because people

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Speaker 5: have such harried lives, they almost count on well, what

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Speaker 5: what is the report from an artist who has in

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Speaker 5: her life time to reflect? You know, this is her location,

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Speaker 5: and they almost do that kind of work of reflecting

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Speaker 5: for us.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a gift, right, yeah. I mean it's an

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Speaker 1: expensive gift too.

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Speaker 5: I mean, because you know, there are other opportunities I

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Speaker 5: suppose for people with jobs that have more security or

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Speaker 5: pay more.

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Speaker 1: It's not for everybody. It's not for the feint of heart.

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Speaker 4: I don't think when you got back after all the

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Speaker 4: break from I won't even say the word, but everything

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Speaker 4: off the grid when you came back to those first performances.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know you had one at City Winery

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Speaker 4: as an example.

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Speaker 1: How did that feel? Can you just yeah? I mean

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Speaker 1: there's just been a few of them.

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Speaker 5: When I right before I was gonna do the gigs,

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Speaker 5: as I'm practicing, I thought, well, man, this could this.

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Speaker 1: Could almost be like emotional could get.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, I was just kind of thinking that

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Speaker 5: it might strike me as like not having seen a

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Speaker 5: friend for fifty years or something.

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Speaker 1: But being on stage it was it was more than that.

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Speaker 5: It was it was uh, it was joyous and it

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Speaker 5: didn't have all sorts of emotional content.

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Speaker 1: It was simply joyous.

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Speaker 5: And uh, maybe that's.

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Speaker 1: What I like most about being on stage.

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Speaker 5: It's this this guy, that the inner guy in me,

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Speaker 5: that comes out.

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Speaker 1: Of his cage for an hour and a half.

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Speaker 5: You know, even now he's out of his cage slightly

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Speaker 5: because you know, don't tell anybody, but this is I'm

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Speaker 5: I'm aware that it's the performance of some sort, but

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Speaker 5: he's not quite out of the cage like on stage,

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Speaker 5: got to be very transparent on these days.

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Speaker 4: But the thing about music, and I'm not a musician,

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Speaker 4: I just love music. But the thing about music that

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Speaker 4: is so incredible is it's unifying spirit, its ability to

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Speaker 4: lift you up, its ability to touch you. And I

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Speaker 4: think during certainly the difficult times, any difficult times, we

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Speaker 4: all come back to music.

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Speaker 1: Don't we. Yeah, well we should. We'll walk this way.

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Speaker 5: And I feel like these boots are no longer waterproofs.

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Speaker 1: Soaking through my misbehaving sock. You know.

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Speaker 5: The thing about music not to get too abstract, but

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Speaker 5: it always has interested me sort of like, well, why

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Speaker 5: is music as opposed to say, architecture or art or dance,

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Speaker 5: Why is music so popular?

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Speaker 1: Why did they make the iPod?

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Speaker 5: And why are you know, Spotify not for pictures of sculpture.

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Speaker 5: And you could say, well, the technology supported music, that's

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Speaker 5: why we have it, but obviously it's not the case.

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Speaker 5: The technology was made to fill a desire, the need

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Speaker 5: for music. And the best answer that I, you know,

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Speaker 5: stumbled upon, was that music in that it has no physical.

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Speaker 1: Form, it has no temporal shape.

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Speaker 5: It is it's invisible, even though the waves, the sound waves,

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Speaker 5: which essentially are what music is caused from. They're not

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Speaker 5: visible and nor do they contain music. They just stimulate

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Speaker 5: the ear drum. There's something about it on that level

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Speaker 5: that really uh connects to something of the spiritual. And

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Speaker 5: in some way that is why every human being in

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Speaker 5: my mind is hungry for transcending themselves the moment, looking

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Speaker 5: for something better, something more, some acknowledgment. All these things

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Speaker 5: have to do with, you know, spirituality writ large. We

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Speaker 5: fill ourselves up with all sorts of things, but they

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Speaker 5: never do they never sate, and things like love and

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Speaker 5: friendship and communion and walking in the sense of in nature,

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Speaker 5: feeling the grandeur of things. That's certainly akin to spirituality.

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Speaker 5: Music in that sense of it being formless, is exactly that.

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Speaker 5: And there's different kinds of music, certainly, and there's different

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Speaker 5: qualities of music. So not every music turns you know,

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Speaker 5: everyone on. But you know, I wake up in the

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Speaker 5: morning when I start my workouts lately in the last

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Speaker 5: couple of months, and I put on Claude Debussy and

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Speaker 5: it's very dream like.

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Speaker 1: It's a way to wake up.

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Speaker 5: I might move into like little Lightning Hopkins and a

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Speaker 5: little Nina Simone. I put on Tower of Power yesterday.

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Speaker 5: The bass player kills me. Sometimes our lyrics seem a

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Speaker 5: little hard, you know, it this little trite, But man,

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Speaker 5: the groove is.

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Speaker 1: So so good and it changes me. It can hypnotize

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Speaker 1: a person.

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Speaker 4: And it motivated you to take on the Good Songs

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Speaker 4: podcasts with your son.

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Speaker 1: Correct.

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Speaker 5: Well, actually, what motivated me to do that because my

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Speaker 5: son has just got a lot of good ideas. He said, hey,

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Speaker 5: why don't we do this this father something, and here's how.

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Speaker 1: We're going to do it and everything.

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Speaker 5: I just stood there in front of the mic. So

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Speaker 5: that's all on him, you know, my son, Isaac.

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Speaker 1: But it was out of.

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Speaker 6: Certainly the mutual love of music, yeah yeah, and just

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Speaker 6: certain ways that he and I have connected since he

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Speaker 6: was a kid over music and the kind of the

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Speaker 6: conversations we've had about it, you know, both technical and

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Speaker 6: sort of this more abstract philosophical idea that we've been

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Speaker 6: talking about now.

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Speaker 4: I watched your Impermanent Things Ted Talks, which was spectacular.

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Speaker 4: You just have such a command up there, and you

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Speaker 4: told such an amazing stories.

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Speaker 1: I really thank you for that.

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Speaker 4: Do you have any future ideas on how to maybe

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Speaker 4: bring something similar forward to inspire and.

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Speaker 1: Excite people.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, I've been doing since twenty eleven. I

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Speaker 5: created this I guess call it a company. It's called

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Speaker 5: Big mus and I just, you know, I like to

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Speaker 5: just make things. Just started it, you know, And I

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Speaker 5: had a thought as to, well, I wonder because my

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Speaker 5: kids were going to school, all into private colleges.

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Speaker 1: Kind of one after the other. I've been doing a.

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Speaker 5: Lot of television and film scoring, and I was getting

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Speaker 5: a little part on my back, you know, sitting in

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Speaker 5: a lumbar support chair for twelve hours a day.

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Speaker 1: So I just was thinking, I wonder that what could my.

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Speaker 5: Experience as a musician, having made you know, many records

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Speaker 5: and toured around in a bus or a van or

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Speaker 5: a car or whatever the budget allowed for, could these

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Speaker 5: experiences have yielded insights that might be valuable to businesses?

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Speaker 5: And then I found a couple of friends or fans

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Speaker 5: that brought me into the company, and.

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Speaker 1: It's grown.

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Speaker 5: I've done so many different companies now, from Boeing to

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Speaker 5: three M Gap, Coca Cola, traveled all around the world

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Speaker 5: and worked with the United States Army. And what it

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Speaker 5: is is, uh, it's hard to explain exactly what I do.

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Speaker 5: I mean, people want their employees to be more quote

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Speaker 5: creative and creativities. That's almost a word like you wouldn't

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Speaker 5: say the word for the thing that we went through

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Speaker 5: for two years and hopefully it's just two years. Even

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Speaker 5: that word creativity, you have to use it, but it's

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Speaker 5: kind of meaningless in a sense. And and to me,

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Speaker 5: it's a state of mind that is not bounded by

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Speaker 5: fear that every every human being, not that you're going

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Speaker 5: to be a master necessarily anything, but to to one

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Speaker 5: extent or another, if you can push aside your fear

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Speaker 5: of judgment, you will.

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Speaker 1: There's the there's the heron again. There it is.

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Speaker 5: That guy's got zero fear of judgment. He's just flying.

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Speaker 5: He's doing it. He knows, he knows it's it. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: he knows how to get over those wires too, yet

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Speaker 5: no effort. But if you can push that fear of

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Speaker 5: judgment aside, your native creativity will flourish in abundance. So

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Speaker 5: I do some sessions with music and things and first

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Speaker 5: try to get myself into a mood, which is that's

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Speaker 5: the that's the nature of the game. You know, the

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Speaker 5: performer has to like be there first and lead the

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Speaker 5: way and then get others to to find some spark

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Speaker 5: in themselves. A lot of people in a corporate world,

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Speaker 5: if I ask you know, who among you would consider

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Speaker 5: yourself like highly creative, they often think of people that

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Speaker 5: are creative as people in the arts, and I do

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Speaker 5: try to make a point that people in the quote

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Speaker 5: arts are often in a very uncreative phase too, where

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Speaker 5: they're repeating what they've done over and over. So every

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Speaker 5: human being can consider themselves, you know, potentially super creative.

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Speaker 5: And while there's not a lot of hands raised in

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Speaker 5: the beginning of the session, I feel I'm highly creative.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the session.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes I'll ask, you know, is there been a change,

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Speaker 5: And there, you know, most of the people are raising

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Speaker 5: their hands.

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Speaker 1: It's gratifying to me.

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Speaker 5: And the sessions can be pretty funny and super emotional,

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Speaker 5: and you know, when we're playing live and together, I

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Speaker 5: come with a band and it's pretty exciting stuff.

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Speaker 4: I think now more than ever, it seems there's a

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Speaker 4: need for what big news offers.

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Speaker 1: I think people are down these days in the workforce.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, people are you know, the attrition

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Speaker 5: rate is high. People are leaving their jobs, and I

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Speaker 5: could totally understand why they're looking for something better, more meaningful.

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Speaker 5: They're looking at the clock and saying, how much time

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Speaker 5: do I have here? Do I want to be doing this?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think I was always doing pretty much exactly.

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Speaker 1: So we walked the road.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I thought I was always will walk on this

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Speaker 5: side there's for safety in case giant trucks come wrong.

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Speaker 5: I thought I was always doing pretty much what I

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Speaker 5: wanted to do, and then if it got a little stultifying,

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Speaker 5: I moved on.

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Speaker 4: I also think there must be something to the magic

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Speaker 4: of collaboration around music that leads to workforces understanding the

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Speaker 4: collaborative process as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, it's totally identical.

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Speaker 5: I mean, along my journey because I never went to school,

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Speaker 5: I never went to college, I did get somebody offered

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Speaker 5: me a fellowship to study at Kellogg School of Management

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Speaker 5: at the University of Northwestern University.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, it's going to be weird.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the.

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Speaker 5: Terms, you know, ROI and all this business stuff, but

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Speaker 5: it was. It was really one of the highlights of

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Speaker 5: my you know, the last decade perhaps, And what I

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Speaker 5: learned there was is that everything that they're teaching leadership,

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Speaker 5: you know, innovation, resilience, all that stuff we learn in

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Speaker 5: a van, you know, as kids going around touring around

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Speaker 5: the Midwest. There's nothing that they were except for some

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Speaker 5: economics courses and things like.

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Speaker 1: That, but most of it was what we already kind

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Speaker 1: of knew.

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Speaker 5: And in a sense that you could say, well, you

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Speaker 5: didn't really learn anything, but the learning there was more

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Speaker 5: of a sense of confirmation, which is pretty important.

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Speaker 1: It's just stuff that.

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Speaker 5: You know and that you you have kind of already

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Speaker 5: been through, even though it has another name.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes labels are just you know, thrown out there

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Speaker 4: and the true story really is you know, leading life

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Speaker 4: right right right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you know the label can be misleading, mislabeling, confining, constricting.

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Speaker 4: So in closing, what are you looking forward to about

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty two?

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Speaker 5: Well, I have a grandchild now, so that's changed a lot.

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Speaker 5: And you know, one thing we learned over the past,

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Speaker 5: you know, a couple of years, is not that any

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Speaker 5: of us didn't think family was important, but it's certainly

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Speaker 5: brought shine of light on you know how important it

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Speaker 5: can be, so spending time with family. I have a

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Speaker 5: second book that I've finished. I got a note from

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Speaker 5: my editor today that you know, she's like, I think

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Speaker 5: we're I think we're done.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think my work is done.

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Speaker 5: And I had started that book about creativity and a

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Speaker 5: second I wrote another book in twenty seventeen called let

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Speaker 5: Me Out.

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Speaker 1: Who wanted to.

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Speaker 5: Follow up, And the first notes that she had given me,

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Speaker 5: this great editor, she said, look, you know I've been

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Speaker 5: through to Let Me Out.

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Speaker 1: I've been through this book. It's not about creativity.

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Speaker 5: It's about spirituality, which was part of the reason it

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Speaker 5: was taking me so long to finish.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have to kind of admit to what

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 5: So that's I guess called right now, grow, Gratitude, Reverence, openness,

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Speaker 5: and will the four essential elements of spiritual courage. And

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Speaker 5: it's a lot about what I think about, and it's

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Speaker 5: a lot about what I talk about in my big

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Speaker 5: news sessions, and it's kind of a lot about what

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Speaker 5: I write about in all my songs through through you know,

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Speaker 5: three decades.

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Speaker 4: Boy, that sounds like, first of all, finishing a book

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Speaker 4: something to be proud of.

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Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, the books.

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Speaker 5: It's not a record album, which you know, like you

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Speaker 5: plan and a couple you know, I can do that.

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Speaker 1: This is this is a big bear, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So congratulations on that. And I'm sure twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: two is gonna take you to many other different places

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Speaker 4: as part of your journey. But I really am tremendously

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Speaker 4: grateful for you welcoming me here and taking a walk

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Speaker 4: my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Buss Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 5: M