Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman.
Speaker 2: This is a production of the bear Grease podcast called
Speaker 2: The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,
Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,
Speaker 2: presented by f h F Gear, American made purpose built
Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged
Speaker 2: as the place.
Speaker 1: As we explore. Welcome to the Bear Grease Render.
Speaker 2: I have We've got a great a great cast of
Speaker 2: characters here today to talk about one of the best
Speaker 2: bear grease podcasts in a long time. In my opinion,
Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't want to show my
Speaker 2: whole hand too quickly.
Speaker 3: So listen to this one and then forget the rest.
Speaker 1: Well, it's up to you. But so this is the
Speaker 1: Bear Grease Render.
Speaker 2: If you're new to the Bear Grease Render, this is
Speaker 2: where we gather a group.
Speaker 1: But we have six of us here today.
Speaker 2: Experts, six experts, and we talk about the bear great
Speaker 2: there's five of us here, six of us.
Speaker 4: There's six of us.
Speaker 2: There's six of us here, and we we talk about
Speaker 2: the actual documentary style bear Grease podcast. So, if you're
Speaker 2: new to bear Grease, this is what we're doing. I
Speaker 2: want to pitch an idea to you guys here, regulars
Speaker 2: on the Render. Let me introduce to my right, we're
Speaker 2: going backwards today. To my right, Gary Believer Nukelem, my father, good.
Speaker 3: To see you, Thank you here.
Speaker 1: I bet you liked this episode.
Speaker 3: I loved it.
Speaker 1: I knew you would too. To my dad's right, Josh
Speaker 1: Lamberge Spilmmaker, I'm just.
Speaker 3: Glad I'm back because this podcast has gone to pop.
Speaker 2: Josh, Josh had been on a render in a long time.
Speaker 2: It's going to come back to I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: you the different things we're going to talk about. Uh,
Speaker 2: we're gonna come back and talk to you about a buck.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna spill the beans. But great to see you, Josh,
Speaker 2: Thank you. Beard's looking great, the land bridge is looking good.
Speaker 2: You're right, my lovely wife, Doctor Misty Newkelem. Great to
Speaker 2: see you.
Speaker 1: Doctor.
Speaker 4: This is the only place is the only place.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, what what use PhD? If you
Speaker 1: never use it?
Speaker 3: What's that exactly? Why if you're not going to get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a long story. Job So Missy.
Speaker 2: Missy has some very insightful comments that she would like
Speaker 2: to give about women whoa that's a big.
Speaker 3: Great's probably in the room.
Speaker 2: To your right, Isaac Neil, Isaac, great to see you
Speaker 2: works for Bear Grease.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure my wife is very excited for me
Speaker 5: to receive this insightful and for me.
Speaker 1: Ever listened to what miss say. It's gonna be big.
Speaker 4: This is going to change our relationship expectations.
Speaker 3: It's good.
Speaker 1: It's that good.
Speaker 2: And to Isaac's right, the one and only Brent Reeves, Brent,
Speaker 2: good to see it really looking sharp today.
Speaker 6: Man, let me tell you, the only thing I know
Speaker 6: about women is they've been in my trouble since I
Speaker 6: figured out they wouldn't men.
Speaker 7: That's that's that's a whaling jens, A line from a
Speaker 7: whaling jen.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, get back in your chair. Sorry, Well you.
Speaker 1: Have You have some great women in your life, as
Speaker 1: do I.
Speaker 2: Of course, Brent is wearing a full cry that hat.
Speaker 2: When I saw I hadn't mentioned your hat yet. I
Speaker 2: really wish I had a hat like that. I would
Speaker 2: wear it. It's a it's an vintage foam hat home
Speaker 2: trucker hat with full cry. So Full Cry is a
Speaker 2: print coon hunting Hound Hunting magazine that has just been
Speaker 2: kind of revitalized by one of our friends out in Washington, Jason.
Speaker 1: And his wife Danny.
Speaker 3: Danny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, Full Cry is an old school. I
Speaker 2: think it was started in the nineteen forties. Thirty nine, okay,
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 1: Full Cry was started as a print magazine.
Speaker 4: They got a good shout out in the podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love it. I'm a I'm an old
Speaker 1: Full Cry man.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My picture was in Full Cry magazine in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 4: How old were you?
Speaker 2: I was sixteen, Okay, and I was. I had just
Speaker 2: got Newcomb's Southern Wash itall Blue Thunder registered Bluetick and
Speaker 2: sending a picture to like the readers the reader's submissions. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that I think you took the picture right out
Speaker 2: in front of our house of me with a little puppy.
Speaker 1: He's wearing my car heart hat, and U.
Speaker 5: Your outdoor career has been downhill ever since.
Speaker 8: Is more excited about those dog papers than he is.
Speaker 8: He feels the same way about those as I feel
Speaker 8: about when we get the kids social Security numbers.
Speaker 3: I can see that.
Speaker 2: So I just had to mention Brent's hat and just
Speaker 2: how sharp he looked. Here's here's what here's my pitch
Speaker 2: to you guys that I'm very very seriously considering, is uh,
Speaker 2: you know how the late show, the talk show hosts,
Speaker 2: you're gonna think of this as a joke, because it's
Speaker 2: not a joke. The late night talk show hosts have
Speaker 2: a live band that's just always there, just always waiting,
Speaker 2: start out with a song, a song, something funny happens,
Speaker 2: and you're like, go, I want a banjo player here
Speaker 2: all the time. No, it can't be Misty. It's got
Speaker 2: to be somebody with like not a whole lot of personality,
Speaker 2: but just kind of like.
Speaker 5: Just the personality comes out in the banjo, right.
Speaker 2: I mean that because their job is not really to talk,
Speaker 2: but I would kind of lean on them like Jimmy
Speaker 2: Fallon leans on his guy occasionally for input, like outside input.
Speaker 5: You're looking for a banjo playing quest love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't need necessarily a contributor, but I would be like,
Speaker 2: imagine this podcast starts intros over and I go and I.
Speaker 1: Go hit it, JB.
Speaker 2: And then we start talking thanks man, and then I'm
Speaker 2: like like halfway through, after a good story, I'm like,
Speaker 2: JB hit a lick, like somebody tells a real boring story.
Speaker 1: It's like too long.
Speaker 8: I'll be honest a little bit like this is Clay's
Speaker 8: expectations for me, just in our normal everyday life. Not
Speaker 8: the banjo player, but just the like support, the the
Speaker 8: the hitted Missy. I mean this this introduction comment about
Speaker 8: the insightful feedback I've got for women.
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, well, I uh and and and
Speaker 2: it's got to you know. I like musicians that just
Speaker 2: come in and out of your life like a radio,
Speaker 2: like a radio doll.
Speaker 3: Are you advertising list? No position.
Speaker 2: It will be appointed like a like a like a dictator,
Speaker 2: appointing like a lead person to oversee something in his government.
Speaker 8: He doesn't realize he's much more in a dictator, you know,
Speaker 8: type of government I'll take.
Speaker 4: I'll take a benevolent dicta take.
Speaker 2: A benevolent dictator over a crooked politician any day.
Speaker 1: A crooked elected.
Speaker 4: Politicians going right into right into it. You're going right
Speaker 4: in height.
Speaker 2: I've been energized, Yeah, yeah, I've been energized by by
Speaker 2: the story and life of Barry Tarleton.
Speaker 1: He so good.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about that, Brent. So just a little
Speaker 2: follow up. Ken's reward if you remember, on last episode
Speaker 2: of Bear Grease, Brent told a story about getting an
Speaker 2: American quarter horse named Ken's Reward, and we put out
Speaker 2: an APB to the world about getting this information. Many
Speaker 2: people have responded about that, and in Ken's Reward was
Speaker 2: an actual horse. Yep, he was born, and we had
Speaker 2: multiple people send us the papers, so it was really.
Speaker 4: Give a little context actual people who didn't listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, so Brent has a podcast called This Country Life,
Speaker 2: and that's another complicated part of being in the Bear
Speaker 2: Grease world. This is like a normal podcast where you
Speaker 2: just like turn it on and it's like two or
Speaker 2: three guys just like yipping all the time.
Speaker 1: No, you gotta have your brain on.
Speaker 2: See, there's the Bear Grease documentary style podcast, the Bear
Speaker 2: Grease Render and This Country Life. This Country Life comes
Speaker 2: out every Friday. That's Brent's podcast. It's usually like twenty
Speaker 2: two and a half minutes long, and it's a great, excellent,
Speaker 2: very well written, beautiful look into rural America.
Speaker 4: Very good.
Speaker 2: So Brent told a story about a quarter horse wild entertaining.
Speaker 2: Brent told the story on his podcast about his dad
Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties buying him a quarter horse at
Speaker 2: a great deal, and that in Ada, Oklahoma, I roughte
Speaker 2: it home and the horse was a bronc. It bucked
Speaker 2: him off four times. And then the saga of the
Speaker 2: horse is pretty wild, and the horse gets sold very quickly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how long was that period of time? We didn't
Speaker 3: use up a sack of feed before he left.
Speaker 2: And so I wanted to know the story of Ken's reward,
Speaker 2: like where that happen?
Speaker 5: Where did the progeny?
Speaker 3: Who?
Speaker 1: Who is Ken? I mean that's a if you're a
Speaker 1: normal human and you hear that story, the first question
Speaker 1: you're asking is who's Ken?
Speaker 3: And how? Yeah? Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Again, I mean it slipped through his It slipped through
Speaker 2: his hands like water.
Speaker 5: I think they have been. It may have been a
Speaker 5: sort of tongue in cheek name. He may have been
Speaker 5: a dirt bag.
Speaker 1: Well that's what we want to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so so we've had many people that have
Speaker 2: sent us, Like I was looking at the registration papers
Speaker 2: for the American quarter horse Kin's reward. You can track
Speaker 2: it back generations. The horse was born on April first,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine. Interestingly, the year of.
Speaker 3: My birth, Well, oh, I was thirteen, you.
Speaker 2: Were thirteen and the horse died on January first, New
Speaker 2: Year's Day, two thousand and four, at almost the age
Speaker 2: of twenty five.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: So and Brentwood had it that part.
Speaker 3: I hadn't. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the horse.
Speaker 2: Died in two thousand and four, So when do you
Speaker 2: think you had it?
Speaker 3: It would have been nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 2: So the horse who had been seven or eight years old,
Speaker 2: just long enough to let the world know that it's
Speaker 2: a bronc.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, up until they are about five. You're
Speaker 1: kind of giving them a chance.
Speaker 6: They were dissatisfied. They were dissatisfied with his bucket ability.
Speaker 6: I thought it was excellent.
Speaker 1: So anyway, but the.
Speaker 2: APB that went to the world was that if I
Speaker 2: could talk to Ken or Ken's family and we could
Speaker 2: understand why the horse was named Ken's Reward, that I
Speaker 2: would give him a genuine plot tree the Ozark coonskinhat,
Speaker 2: and Brent would give him a case nine. We've had
Speaker 2: many generous donations to the Information Ben, but nobody has
Speaker 2: yet to bring us real answers that we're looking for.
Speaker 1: So anyway, it's still out there.
Speaker 4: We still don't know who I mean, because clearly this.
Speaker 1: Is we don't know who King is.
Speaker 4: Even though the horse is gone, n might be still around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we hope, we hope, we hope Ken's around. We're
Speaker 1: rooting for you, Ken.
Speaker 4: Wherever you are.
Speaker 3: I mean, one of those coonskin hats, we know they're
Speaker 3: valued about twenty fives.
Speaker 2: Josh, Josh Spillmaker made those for me. Josh takes a
Speaker 2: coon and a half to make one of those.
Speaker 5: You handstitch them part of it.
Speaker 1: Josh is a gifted craftsman.
Speaker 3: What do you call a hat maker.
Speaker 5: A furrier hatter?
Speaker 3: Well, a hatter is the hatter is the term for
Speaker 3: a someone who makes men's hats, Okay, and a milliner
Speaker 3: is someone who makes women's hats.
Speaker 1: Josh, are you interested in people buying hats from you?
Speaker 3: Not at the moment, will you.
Speaker 5: I have a job that he's interested in fishing.
Speaker 4: In a few short months he'll be interested.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Josh, he makes felt, felt cowboy hats. But he
Speaker 2: also he made all these coonskin hats for me.
Speaker 3: And so I've had a few people reach out to
Speaker 3: me on Instagram and I apologize for you know, we've
Speaker 3: gone back and forth, but I just.
Speaker 1: It's just not right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not available.
Speaker 1: Maybe one day.
Speaker 5: You know, there's a special sewing machine with a hooked
Speaker 5: needle just for stitching fur on material.
Speaker 1: Oh really, it's crazy. Hmm. Maybe Josh could get that.
Speaker 1: Josh he killed. Josh killed a big buck this week.
Speaker 3: I think we're using that term loosely.
Speaker 4: I'd call it a week.
Speaker 3: But I have to say I have a very generous
Speaker 3: friend named Brian who's let me come out and hunt
Speaker 3: on his property. I'm a little jealous, and yeah, you
Speaker 3: should be. He's a great guy. But I went out
Speaker 3: and killed a dough. I haven't hunted in about ten years, right,
Speaker 3: I've dedicated my life to fishing. But I really wanted
Speaker 3: to kill a deer this year. And I got a
Speaker 3: new rifle, a weather Be rifle with a bor Tex
Speaker 3: scope shout out to weather Being Vortex, and I really
Speaker 3: wanted to kill a deer this year. So I went
Speaker 3: out and a couple of weeks ago and killed a
Speaker 3: doe just to put some meat in the freezer. And
Speaker 3: Brian said, man, you got to get back out here
Speaker 3: and kill a buck. So I went out last weekend
Speaker 3: and sat in the stand for several hours, saw a beautiful,
Speaker 3: thick coated coyote, I was going to take a shot out,
Speaker 3: but he's just moving too fast. Saw a couple of spikes,
Speaker 3: saw a couple of does. Felt like I had a
Speaker 3: great morning. I figured my morning was over. It was
Speaker 3: getting close to ten o'clock and out walks this beautiful,
Speaker 3: big bodied nine point buck. And it was kind of
Speaker 3: like you know when you're walking through a haunted house
Speaker 3: and somebody like jumps out at you. I felt like
Speaker 3: that was my reaction when I saw this buck. It
Speaker 3: was almost like I had seen a ghost and I
Speaker 3: just was like, oh my gosh, there's a buck. And
Speaker 3: I grabbed that rifle and just drew a beat on
Speaker 3: All I could do is I was looking the opposite
Speaker 3: direction because I thought a buck would come from the
Speaker 3: other way, And when I turned over, he was just
Speaker 3: stepping out into this food plot, and man, I just
Speaker 3: grabbed that rifle and drew a beat on him. And
Speaker 3: I didn't even count points. I was like, it's got
Speaker 3: antlers and pulled the trigger and he just dropped like
Speaker 3: a sack of potatos. Yeah, and I was I felt
Speaker 3: very privileged to be able to harvest a great deer
Speaker 3: like that, great a great set of antlers, but not
Speaker 3: just that, but a nice big body deer that pack
Speaker 3: him a freezer. I'm actually going to process him tonight
Speaker 3: after this recording of this.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's probably a good three
Speaker 2: and a half year old Ozark Mountain.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for for where we live, it's a big.
Speaker 1: Buck yeah, big body deer.
Speaker 5: If you ever get into many ature bear greases, like
Speaker 5: not a full blown one, but like a little one.
Speaker 1: Like a like an actual media.
Speaker 5: Product, no, like yeah, just like a short one. Okay, gotcha,
Speaker 5: this isn't a full episode, but I'd be interested in
Speaker 5: knowing about all this from points scoring, like because when
Speaker 5: I was growing up, it was just like I shot
Speaker 5: a ten point yeah, and now everyone's like I shot
Speaker 5: it one for it, you know, and it's.
Speaker 2: Just more complex math. It's just like a progression of
Speaker 2: human life. You start out like, what's a number. That's
Speaker 2: a one, that's a two, that's a three, and then
Speaker 2: it goes to like find that math.
Speaker 5: I didn't get past three.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My life would
Speaker 2: be easier if it was just points. Yeah, Like if
Speaker 2: I could just be like, Dad, I killed an eight
Speaker 2: point and you'd be like, oh really good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now I gotta be like Dad, I killed one hundred
Speaker 1: and five inch eight point.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 1: UHL. Graduations, Well, thank you.
Speaker 3: I'm excited to be able to hang spailers.
Speaker 1: That's excellent. That's excellent.
Speaker 3: Say well, I'm just going to do your zuro freedom.
Speaker 2: So let's I want to oh, Long Hunters, Long Hunters, man,
Speaker 2: what were you going to say?
Speaker 3: Isaac?
Speaker 1: Steve Ranella and I.
Speaker 2: Did a a An audio original is what we're calling
Speaker 2: that audio original.
Speaker 5: It's kind of like an audio book better.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like a book, but original better, read better.
Speaker 2: It is different than a book, though I don't it's
Speaker 2: hard to put your finger on it. But it's not
Speaker 2: a book. It's an audio original.
Speaker 4: I think it's in the making a book.
Speaker 2: It had a script, yeah yeah, yeah, and we and
Speaker 2: we in the script was man. It is so I
Speaker 2: really can't wait for the world to hear it. I
Speaker 2: think it's a unique audio product that is going to
Speaker 2: give information.
Speaker 1: And it's called Long Hunters.
Speaker 2: Seventeen sixty one to seventeen seventy five and basically there
Speaker 2: was a period of time for fourteen years that was halted.
Speaker 2: It ended at the American Revolution and it started were
Speaker 2: around seventeen sixty one, where the European long hunters were
Speaker 2: trespassing into Indian and French and Spanish territory to contribute
Speaker 2: and to try to make a fortune in the deer
Speaker 2: hide trade, which they were sending deer hides back to Europe. Fascinating,
Speaker 2: I mean, like blow your mind kind of fascinating. And
Speaker 2: we didn't just follow along the standard tropes of what
Speaker 2: you might think about long hunters. I think the team
Speaker 2: did a great job of really showing the motivations of
Speaker 2: these guys and how destitute many of them were. I mean,
Speaker 2: these guys were essentially poachers in a lot of way,
Speaker 2: going in places they should be and it wasn't because
Speaker 2: they were pumped about. They weren't sport hunting. They were
Speaker 2: just like trying to survive. Yeah, and they were that destitute.
Speaker 1: So it's it's it. You can pre order it now,
Speaker 1: I've got a link. You can just.
Speaker 5: Look it up in the description.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but it comes out on January the ninth.
Speaker 5: And two thoughts. One serious when I hear you and
Speaker 5: Steve advertising this on the podcast that I don't know why,
Speaker 5: but I've just got did you ever listen to roy
Speaker 5: D mercer. Yeah, all I can hear is how long
Speaker 5: a hunter are?
Speaker 1: And so I'm serious one of the funny one that's
Speaker 1: the series.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 5: All I can say is I feel like it's a
Speaker 5: missed opportunity to advertise the book, to not get him on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he died.
Speaker 5: Wow, missed opportunity.
Speaker 3: Like I said, he could be riding's reward.
Speaker 5: The seri pious question is did I did I understand
Speaker 5: right that this is the first in the meat Eater
Speaker 5: American history series. I feel like they said something about that.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's exciting.
Speaker 1: It's if this goes well.
Speaker 2: And that's why we're like petitioning our people. You are
Speaker 2: people to it'd be great if you supported this, if
Speaker 2: you feel like it's a contribution to society.
Speaker 5: You have full control over whether or not this. I mean,
Speaker 5: it's just true.
Speaker 2: That's the way media works, especially with these big publishers,
Speaker 2: is if it does well, we'll do more, and we
Speaker 2: we have plans, like running plans to do to do
Speaker 2: some more that are really cool topics that I'm very
Speaker 2: interested in. So yeah, long Hunters, man, It's gonna be
Speaker 2: good and it What what I take away from it
Speaker 2: is is the foundations of American deer hunting, which white
Speaker 2: tailed deer hunting is the most popular big game hunt
Speaker 2: hunt in general, not just big game, the most popular
Speaker 2: hunting in America. There's white tailed deer hunting. There's more
Speaker 2: white tail deer hunters. Most of us grew up white
Speaker 2: tail deer and this is the foundations of why we
Speaker 2: love it. Really, the cultural foundations was these guys.
Speaker 1: So that's it that I was going to ask you.
Speaker 3: A question, Go right ahead, brother, Well, I guess I.
Speaker 2: Need to ask Missy a question. First, Misty was not
Speaker 2: you were not on the last render, and but you
Speaker 2: listened to the plot genesis story. Yes, so that's that
Speaker 2: was This is a two part series. That's all it's
Speaker 2: gonna be. Yeah, there could be there could be a
Speaker 2: lot more, and there might be more in the future.
Speaker 2: But the first plot episode was about the plot genesis story.
Speaker 1: What did you think mass Well.
Speaker 8: So I actually talked to Clay about this after you
Speaker 8: had already done the render, but I had not had
Speaker 8: a chance to listen.
Speaker 4: To the to the whole podcast yet, And.
Speaker 8: As we were talking to it, one of the things
Speaker 8: that Clay said is there was this controversy, you know
Speaker 8: about how the plots did they come over on the
Speaker 8: ship because they weren't listed on the cargo.
Speaker 4: Cargo manifest? Or you know, did they get dogs here?
Speaker 8: And and as he was telling me, he said, one
Speaker 8: of two things could happen. And he tells me One,
Speaker 8: you know, they could have uh, you know, been on
Speaker 8: the ship and not been on the manifest.
Speaker 9: Or two.
Speaker 8: And I was like, wait, there's a third, because I
Speaker 8: thought he was going to say, or two the dogs
Speaker 8: were on the manifest, but are were on the ship
Speaker 8: but we're hidden, like they snuck them on there.
Speaker 4: And I told them if Tim.
Speaker 8: The squirrel dog, if I was going from Germany or
Speaker 8: from if I was traveling across the Atlantic, and they
Speaker 8: told me I couldn't bring my squirrel dogm.
Speaker 4: Would be on that ship.
Speaker 1: She was like, she was like, those dogs were on
Speaker 1: that ship.
Speaker 5: I'm imagining I'm now imagining five plots in a trench coat, George.
Speaker 2: Dogs And she's like, no, that's I'm sorry.
Speaker 8: We have plotthounds, and we have you know, the squirrel
Speaker 8: dogs and the squirrel dogs.
Speaker 4: Tim. He knows when to be quiet.
Speaker 8: Yeah, the plotthounds are not as gifted at that. Jedi
Speaker 8: are retired, are retired plotthound. He he loves the sound
Speaker 8: of his own voice.
Speaker 3: What exactly did he retire from?
Speaker 2: That's what I well, it's a very actually a very
Speaker 2: accurate term for him.
Speaker 1: I can explain more, but yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 4: The Jed loves the sound of his own voice and.
Speaker 1: Had a hard time being whatever they have been.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's the only that's the only flaw in my
Speaker 8: logic is Jedi at Night in particularly loves to just
Speaker 8: make melodic house that are disconnected from anything happening.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, yeah, yeah, No, jedis retired because his business
Speaker 2: partner is dead.
Speaker 8: He wasn't a great hunter, yeah, just anion he was.
Speaker 3: He was Fern's hype girl.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah he was.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: I just I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear
Speaker 2: what you thought about that. You know, I didn't We
Speaker 2: didn't do this last time, but I want to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of plot people that will be listening
Speaker 2: to this. I want to go around the room and
Speaker 2: tell me if you think the dogs were on the ship.
Speaker 2: Let me just like simple answer, were they on the
Speaker 2: ship or did did George plot developed the plot hounds
Speaker 2: train from dogs that were here because that's that's the question.
Speaker 2: Did they come from German, did the stock come from Germany?
Speaker 2: Or and where their dogs on that ship? And you'd
Speaker 2: have to go back to listen to I mean, we
Speaker 2: talked for an hour extensively about this idea, and really
Speaker 2: the episode was about oral tradition versus written record words,
Speaker 2: and I have a strong stance on it. It's like
Speaker 2: the written records of the seventeen fifties. Wait, are you
Speaker 2: going to tip your hand before we all? No, No,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna paint the picture. Written records from the
Speaker 2: seventeen fifties that we have today undoubtedly would be a
Speaker 2: dim record of reality. That's just a pill that everybody's
Speaker 2: gonna have to swallow. Point number two, there are no records,
Speaker 2: written records that we can put our hands on today
Speaker 2: of dogs coming from Germany. So it's like it's just
Speaker 2: that simple. But dad Gary Nukolm, what do you think
Speaker 2: were those dogs?
Speaker 3: Show? You know?
Speaker 10: I went into some detail which obviously no one listens
Speaker 10: to their old man.
Speaker 9: It's not absolutely they were on that ship.
Speaker 10: And the reason I say that, and I went into
Speaker 10: detail saying that this was you're the only one.
Speaker 9: So I gave it to that an illiterate family.
Speaker 10: These people were intelligent people, could communicate very well, and
Speaker 10: they told the story and passed it down. And if
Speaker 10: you just I've forgotten some of their names, but you know, George, George, Henry, Yeah,
Speaker 10: George Henry, Henry lived in the house in eighteen o three.
Speaker 10: And then you get by, you get up to Vine
Speaker 10: in the sixties. It wasn't that big of a deal
Speaker 10: for George to tell Henry and Henry tell Monty or
Speaker 10: you know. It just it wasn't that big of a deal,
Speaker 10: and there was no reason to lie about it. You're
Speaker 10: not bragging about bringing dogs over. You just go, well, well,
Speaker 10: uncle George brought those dogs over on the ship. I
Speaker 10: go with that absolutely unequickly. Okay they were on the ship.
Speaker 1: Okay, believer, We got one believer, Josh.
Speaker 3: My great grandfather, John Leon Artists, immigrated from Greece in
Speaker 3: nineteen fifteen, came through Ellis Island. I have been to
Speaker 3: Ellis Island and I have searched the records on the
Speaker 3: ship for the ship's manifest and cannot find his name.
Speaker 3: I know he immigrated from Greece. I know he came
Speaker 3: over on a ship I'm one hundred percent they brought
Speaker 3: the dogs over. I have to believe they brought the
Speaker 3: dogs over.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: My grandfather told me repelling of him coming over here
Speaker 3: and him being sent.
Speaker 2: To do I would like to command the land bridge
Speaker 2: for it was a good, compelling, concise, definitive answer.
Speaker 3: That was good. Brought the dogs over. They might not
Speaker 3: be on the manifest, big big deal. When was this?
Speaker 1: When what I mean in the seventeen.
Speaker 3: Two hundred and fifty years ago?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I like it.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 2: We got we got two believers of six Misty on
Speaker 2: the ship. You're like, they smuggled those dogs over.
Speaker 8: Well, even if they didn't smuggle them over, I think
Speaker 8: that it would. You know, these were people coming from
Speaker 8: from Europe to to the US, and I just think
Speaker 8: that maybe they valued the dogs. If they're saying they
Speaker 8: value the dogs, they valued the dogs. But maybe the
Speaker 8: people on the ship didn't value the dogs and write
Speaker 8: it down. I think there's tons of reasons why they
Speaker 8: wouldn't be on a manifest. Yeah, And I mean like
Speaker 8: they probably also didn't say if they had mirrors or
Speaker 8: hair brushes or things like that. I mean, whoever's on
Speaker 8: the ship is going to assign value to what gets recorded.
Speaker 1: J's plot brought two hair brushes. They had one.
Speaker 3: Mirror cryogenically frozen and put in a carry on and
Speaker 3: reanimated when they got to the States. Nobody would have
Speaker 3: ever known.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, now, okay, Isaac, you can't be you
Speaker 2: can't be influenced by what's been said.
Speaker 5: I already had my answer. What do you think were
Speaker 5: they on the ship? They were on the ship for
Speaker 5: two reasons, Okay. One, Like Gary said, there's no there's
Speaker 5: no advantage to them lying at the time that they
Speaker 5: were passing the story along. It's not like they were
Speaker 5: like snake oil salesman ring around the country trying to
Speaker 5: sell them, and.
Speaker 1: They weren't trying to start a breathe.
Speaker 4: People.
Speaker 5: People were buying them, but it was because they were
Speaker 5: great dogs. There was no story necessary for that. Number Two,
Speaker 5: it's a great story and there's just absolutely no downside
Speaker 5: to believing it.
Speaker 9: I could get at all.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like that's a way better story.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like I am, in general a fun guy,
Speaker 2: so I believe it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I was not the daddy Daddy senior in Germany. He
Speaker 9: had a little wealth, didn't he.
Speaker 2: Well he the story, the oral tradition is that he
Speaker 2: worked for a wealthy guy. So he would essentially be
Speaker 2: the estate manager of somebody that had some big chunk
Speaker 2: of ground in Germany. That's and that was a common position,
Speaker 2: and that guy would have been in charge of dogs,
Speaker 2: and would have been in charge of hunts and the grounds,
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 10: That's if you couldn't bring dogs with you the owner
Speaker 10: of all that game that they were, you know, it
Speaker 10: would have been real easy to influence people. Hey, let
Speaker 10: the boy bring the dogs on the ship. If that
Speaker 10: was a problem, which it probably was not a problem.
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't a big deal for dogs to
Speaker 2: come over from England. I mean they did all the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm kind of shocked.
Speaker 1: We've got four so far of six that are believers.
Speaker 3: Brent one. They were not on that ship.
Speaker 6: Now only if they started out with five hundred, maybe
Speaker 6: five survived. But he got a brother that dies, there's
Speaker 6: so how much food they're gonna put on that ship.
Speaker 3: They got to feed them dogs. If his brothers died
Speaker 3: because he was starving or whatever. The issue was. Them folks,
Speaker 3: they would eat them dogs before they ever got there.
Speaker 1: We didn't die because he was starving. We don't know
Speaker 1: why he died.
Speaker 3: You don't know why not everybody died. But what I'm
Speaker 3: saying is, Kirby, if you die on the ship, it's
Speaker 3: usually because it's it's.
Speaker 1: Got to be scirvy.
Speaker 6: They could have made him walk the plank. Nobody knows.
Speaker 6: What I'm saying is them dogs wasn't on this ship.
Speaker 1: Okay. So from the evidence that you you heard in the.
Speaker 6: There's no evidence that they were on the ship. That's
Speaker 6: the deal, right, So, and I just don't I don't
Speaker 6: think it was. I mean, it wasn't like going on
Speaker 6: a cruise is now it was easy, Okay.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to throw possum in the hen house,
Speaker 2: as we say, But this is coming from a staunch,
Speaker 2: long time generational Walker man. It would be to his
Speaker 2: benefit to tarnish the reputation, the story, the history, the
Speaker 2: legacy of the plot hound.
Speaker 1: It would be it would be to his advantage for
Speaker 1: people to be there. Those plot hounds don't mean anything
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm getting a walker. I'm going to
Speaker 2: join the rest of America.
Speaker 3: I don't get a walk.
Speaker 6: I wish they all had plots I wish everybody had them,
Speaker 6: and that's not That is not a stance or a
Speaker 6: platform that I'm willing to accept. The stand on't know,
Speaker 6: it takes nothing away from how special that story is,
Speaker 6: because there's two stories. There's a story they brought them
Speaker 6: over in the story that they didn't. So but I
Speaker 6: just believe it doesn't discount it. One doesn't bring any
Speaker 6: discredit to what that family has done, what.
Speaker 1: That And I think I think that's the reason that
Speaker 1: we can.
Speaker 3: I like it. I like it better. No, I ain't
Speaker 3: through yet, Josh, you.
Speaker 9: Move on.
Speaker 3: I like this story better having dogs from America doing.
Speaker 1: It America.
Speaker 9: Agenda. You have an agenda you're working on.
Speaker 3: That's a US A baby quote. Bailey react, exactly right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's your stance?
Speaker 2: Clay Well, I find myself in a precarious situation here.
Speaker 2: I got an email from a dear friend of mine
Speaker 2: a few days ago, renowned historian. I don't think he
Speaker 2: would mind me bringing up his name. Doctor Brooks Blevins
Speaker 2: is a hero of the Burgers podcast.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 2: He is a prolific writer, academic historian based out of.
Speaker 5: Springfield, Missouri, State Queen the Queen City.
Speaker 2: Yeah so, Brooks is This is the way I describe
Speaker 2: Brooks as expert as anybody could be at their field.
Speaker 2: He is the expert of the ozarks. I mean like
Speaker 2: you could take a rocket scientist from wherever and and
Speaker 2: and analyze their knowledge of their field, and it would
Speaker 2: in anybody in the world.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be.
Speaker 3: Brooks.
Speaker 2: Blevins would be equivalent in his knowledge of the ozarks.
Speaker 2: He's bone of He is bonafide that is not relevant
Speaker 2: to this, but he is an academic and is a researcher.
Speaker 2: He wrote me an email and he said, Clay really
Speaker 2: enjoyed the plotound episode. He said, I never thought I
Speaker 2: would hear Palatina the Palatina of Palatinate of Germany mentioned
Speaker 2: it's a region of Germany. Yeah, I'm pronounced wrong, and
Speaker 2: he said. He said, but I've been around these narratives
Speaker 2: enough to know that when you go down the trail,
Speaker 2: some of these romantic stories usually aren't true. And he said,
Speaker 2: I I don't think the dogs, he doesn't think the
Speaker 2: dogs are on the ship.
Speaker 6: I here, right here is where a field needs to
Speaker 6: put in the what's that law and order?
Speaker 4: If I had the banjo guy and be like hit it.
Speaker 9: Many.
Speaker 2: He was actually on my list, but Myron means has
Speaker 2: too much to contribute. Yeah, it would be hard to
Speaker 2: ignore Myron. I want a banjo player I can ignore.
Speaker 9: So check this out.
Speaker 5: If you were around me for more than twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: I like how we just changed the subject really quickly.
Speaker 3: Keep it.
Speaker 5: Quote one of three authors, Jose Ortega, You got said,
Speaker 5: the most prolific Spanish language philosopher of the twentieth century.
Speaker 5: He wrote Meditations on Hunting. Yes, foundational.
Speaker 1: You talk about him NonStop, NonStop.
Speaker 9: I asked Clay twice.
Speaker 5: I asked Clay twice in an eighteen hour period if
Speaker 5: you'd read Meditations on Hunting. It just cycles through my brain.
Speaker 5: Wendleberry prolific theologian, poet, Yes, outdoor thinker insane Brooks Blevins.
Speaker 1: Yes, those are the three guys we talk about.
Speaker 3: Are you saying your change lens changing your side here?
Speaker 3: I'm saying because somebody said Brooks, I.
Speaker 5: Hold him in the utmost esteem and he is dead wrong.
Speaker 3: Just me and my fellow sophisticate mm hmm.
Speaker 5: It pains me to not be on the same team
Speaker 5: as Brent Reeves.
Speaker 3: And you still didn't say what you think well.
Speaker 4: I don't think he wants to say what you think.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 5: He's the moderator.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm a I am not on the outside
Speaker 2: of this like all y'all are. I'm on the inside.
Speaker 2: And then the family in the family. In the family,
Speaker 2: we keep things in the family.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Clay will basically not sell a dog plot hound
Speaker 8: like my whole life. He'll be like, man, that dog
Speaker 8: is worth so much, but we'll never get a penny
Speaker 8: for it, because he only gives them away to select
Speaker 8: people who he believes can can pull the best out of.
Speaker 2: The I'm a I'm a deep first generation plot man.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that's how it gets started.
Speaker 3: One day they'll talk about the Newcomb Farm plot hounds.
Speaker 3: No they won't.
Speaker 4: The retired one is the.
Speaker 2: So this this, this episode just just reeks, reeks of
Speaker 2: so many ver greasy things that that I'm interested in.
Speaker 2: And it was I told Mistery told several people these stories.
Speaker 2: It might seem easy. This story was hard to tell
Speaker 2: in a way because it was so it really was
Speaker 2: a personal story, a family story. And by easy, I
Speaker 2: don't mean like like gathering the content was. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: there was challenges to that at different times. But just
Speaker 2: like handling someone's family story is more significant to me
Speaker 2: than like the outcome of like did it do good
Speaker 2: or or would people like it? My first concern is
Speaker 2: always the people that are opening themselves up. And this
Speaker 2: is a story that's not been told like nobody regionally,
Speaker 2: Barry Charlton is known, and in the plot world, Barry
Speaker 2: Tarleton is known, but you know, there's not books about
Speaker 2: about him, or he's not a folk hero on a
Speaker 2: national level. And that's that's what I love about a
Speaker 2: story like this, and and and it's so to me
Speaker 2: cool to know that there are stories like this that
Speaker 2: are untold.
Speaker 1: And but Dad, general impressions.
Speaker 2: Of the Barry Tarlton story, what was your favorite part?
Speaker 2: What what did you think about it?
Speaker 10: Well, I can relate to being lazy. The guy offended me,
Speaker 10: I'm telling you. When Tracy said that, I mean, come on, hey,
Speaker 10: it was awesome. It was just really unbelievable to me,
Speaker 10: the the way that it was woven together. And you know,
Speaker 10: you had dogs, you had people, you had I loved
Speaker 10: the movie Walking Tall. You remember that the beef stickd Pusser. Yeah,
Speaker 10: he cleaned up the county and Tennessee I just that
Speaker 10: sounds like the same guy to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 9: And then the old.
Speaker 10: Movie in the song White Lightning years ago, Man, that
Speaker 10: was just my favorite. Robert Mitcham running Moonshine and hit
Speaker 10: that electrical deal and blue you know.
Speaker 3: Uh so the.
Speaker 10: Intrigue of the outlaws, the shootouts, the boys hitting the ditch,
Speaker 10: you know, fred are gonna get shot. Uh I enjoyed
Speaker 10: that more than the dogs. But the dog part was
Speaker 10: really awesome too.
Speaker 2: I just I thought, well, I thought Tracy did a
Speaker 2: phenomenal job, and of anybody on planet Earth, he would
Speaker 2: be as qualified as anyone to talk about this when
Speaker 2: he said, like, yeah, you're you and me are kind
Speaker 2: of intrigued by the by the pizzaz of you know.
Speaker 9: Tommy gunn bailing out on the other side.
Speaker 10: I mean, I'm thinking Bonnie and Clyde they couldn't get
Speaker 10: out of the car in time. This guy, he got
Speaker 10: out in time. He shut down some boys with Tommy guns.
Speaker 9: Yeah shotgun.
Speaker 2: Well okay, and so you know, it's fun to talk
Speaker 2: about that. But if it was me who had been
Speaker 2: out on the street today and had been shot at
Speaker 2: and had returned fire and came home and told my
Speaker 2: wife that like literally could have been killed. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a different story when it's real. And to me,
Speaker 2: that's what And I'd never met Barry Charlton. I know Tracy,
Speaker 2: I know Ben, I know a lot of people that
Speaker 2: were around him. I watched an extensive interview that you know,
Speaker 2: that interview. I picked five like thirty second clips that
Speaker 2: Barry Charleton interview. There's a full interview with him. Is
Speaker 2: you realize in like Tracy said, like it was a
Speaker 2: terrible thing, It wasn't. He wasn't doing it for fame.
Speaker 2: He wasn't doing it because so they make a TV
Speaker 2: show about him that it wasn't like Moonshiner's you know
Speaker 2: on Channel twelve Barry Tarleton and Barry's like twirling his
Speaker 2: pistol and shooting people. He literally his brothers were murdered
Speaker 2: and he was angry at them. I mean, and so
Speaker 2: there was not a Hollywood shine on it. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is a man that came from such poverty that
Speaker 2: they were fattening possums to eat it. And he is
Speaker 2: in the midst of really the American dream of financial
Speaker 2: financial increase over time at a time when America was
Speaker 2: kind of blossoming, and here he is, and he's on
Speaker 2: this kind of upward trajectory from abject poverty to having
Speaker 2: a good job and having a car and being able
Speaker 2: to provide for his family. But then there's this thing
Speaker 2: that's in his community that's killing people, and he's like, no,
Speaker 2: this is getting in the way of this life that
Speaker 2: I want for my children from my family. And it
Speaker 2: was ugly, you know, and I think Tracy did a
Speaker 2: good job of de romanticizing it, you know, just saying, oh,
Speaker 2: the moonshine was terrible.
Speaker 1: You know, it really wrecked a lot of people. But
Speaker 1: that's what was.
Speaker 10: So in truth, he was, to me a real hero.
Speaker 10: And so many of y'all, not me, have this little
Speaker 10: hero guy and girl inside you that never really has
Speaker 10: an opportunity to come forth. Sergeant York just an old
Speaker 10: farmer War War One, and then who's the guy in
Speaker 10: World War Two?
Speaker 3: Audie Murphy.
Speaker 10: I mean, these guys they were just they were just
Speaker 10: little little guys, but when they were put under pressure,
Speaker 10: they were tremendous heroes. And he was a tremendous hero.
Speaker 10: I mean he went into his community and said, Hey,
Speaker 10: I'm gonna clean this mess up. Yeah, and he could
Speaker 10: have been killed. And then he loved bear hunting, I.
Speaker 9: Mean to the point where he was wild eyed.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Yeah, So I just thought he was an awesome, awesome guy,
Speaker 10: and I put him right up there with the heroes
Speaker 10: of our country.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Can you imagine working a shift at the milk plant
Speaker 5: with that guy? What did you do last night?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 5: I caught the radio program What About You Well, and
Speaker 5: he wouldn't have been braggadocious about it, I imagine, just
Speaker 5: totally deadpan. Got shot up by some Tommy guns and
Speaker 5: I shot one of them with a shotgun. After that,
Speaker 5: I went bear hunting.
Speaker 3: I bet nobody messed with his lunch.
Speaker 11: And hey, before you go too far, I want to
Speaker 11: hear what missed he says about women.
Speaker 9: I tell you, I've got some strong thoughts about Hazel.
Speaker 10: I'm just yeah, me too, really, I think I have.
Speaker 8: I think, yeah, you know, well, yeah, Clay was just
Speaker 8: saying that he was he was. I think he was
Speaker 8: a little concerned at how people might take that part
Speaker 8: of the story. And we were I had just listened
Speaker 8: to it and we were just eating.
Speaker 2: So there's a part on the podcast where where Tracy
Speaker 2: describes the routine of his grandfather, which was.
Speaker 1: So good, like it was, I mean, I like it.
Speaker 2: I commend people for paying attention to stuff and being
Speaker 2: able to like, could I describe the routine of lew
Speaker 2: and Nukem my grandfather? I mean no, I mean I
Speaker 2: have some ideas of the way he lived his life,
Speaker 2: but anyway, I just I thought it was really neat
Speaker 2: the way he just had all that laid out and described.
Speaker 2: But it's certainly and tracy Tracy he said it. He said,
Speaker 2: you might hear that story and think that this is
Speaker 2: this poor little woman being run over by some and
Speaker 2: and I mean he was just like.
Speaker 3: She's the hero in the story. In my opinion. Let
Speaker 3: me tell you, my grandmother and great grandmother were like that.
Speaker 3: And it was their schedule, not my grandfather or my
Speaker 3: great grandfather's schedule. It was their schedule. They were doing that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you want warm food, you better be here.
Speaker 3: The story of the that.
Speaker 1: Way, Well, tell me what you said.
Speaker 8: Yes, So Clay was just saying that he was concerned.
Speaker 8: I was like, Man, if people hear that in any way,
Speaker 8: they that that kind of set up is actually and
Speaker 8: if you really if you look historically at and people
Speaker 8: could argue with this, and and and people will and
Speaker 8: I don't really care, but that type of marriage actually
Speaker 8: does have quite a bit of of equality inside of it.
Speaker 4: There they have different roles.
Speaker 8: They're not thinking about they're not thinking about he's working
Speaker 8: a shift, he's coming home work on a job. She's
Speaker 8: managing the homestead. Her what she is doing is not paid,
Speaker 8: is not compensated work, but it is tremendously valuable.
Speaker 3: To the home.
Speaker 8: And if you look at Appalachian history, you see that,
Speaker 8: you hear that inside of of the stories that they
Speaker 8: tell about the women who who built these homesteads. Number One,
Speaker 8: they're tough, they can work pretty hard. What they're doing
Speaker 8: is actually to keep those homes running. And if you
Speaker 8: look at like Hunter gather societies, and there's imperfections, and
Speaker 8: there's big issues like the way women have been treated
Speaker 8: for eons or generations. There's big issues, but there is
Speaker 8: inside of a high functioning home a level of egalitarian
Speaker 8: relationships that exist. And that's just her role. They're just surviving.
Speaker 8: That is just like she's going to take care of
Speaker 8: the home stuff. He's going to go out to the
Speaker 8: factory and work. They're gonna bring he's gonna go get
Speaker 8: meat from from elsewhere. It's not it's not to say
Speaker 8: say it's not to say it's only like since agriculture
Speaker 8: and society shifted towards them more, it was in the
Speaker 8: like agrarian cultures that things, certain things became more valuable than.
Speaker 2: What you said was that in the in going way back,
Speaker 2: the hunter gatherers societies, Yeah, the women often had more
Speaker 2: rights or more rights than.
Speaker 1: Even women would today. Am I am I hearing you
Speaker 1: say that?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 8: Well, I didn't say that. I said in hunter gathered societies,
Speaker 8: it was there was more equality inside of inside of
Speaker 8: the structure to the well, I mean they could Yeah,
Speaker 8: I wouldn't say it in the terms of rights, but
Speaker 8: there was more equality inside of the structure of the
Speaker 8: home because each played a part and those parts were
Speaker 8: very valuable. Yeah, and so those were the relationship was
Speaker 8: actually a very mutually beneficial and as as we became
Speaker 8: more agrarian, that's where that started to shift.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And one thing that I said as I was trying
Speaker 2: to again I'm wanting to tell the story accurately and
Speaker 2: not wanting because you're just getting such a little snippets.
Speaker 2: I mean, we did a whole hour and four minutes
Speaker 2: on this guy. And it's like, we didn't get the
Speaker 2: whole story, you know, I mean we got parts of it.
Speaker 2: But the opening scene of the podcast, which I loved,
Speaker 2: was me evesdropping on a phone call between Tracy, his
Speaker 2: aunt and Tracy's mother. And in the story of the
Speaker 2: car getting blown up, what was Barry Tarleton doing when
Speaker 2: the car got blown up?
Speaker 4: Heating up a bottle?
Speaker 1: He was heating up a baby bottle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's like getting ready for work to right,
Speaker 2: He's getting ready for work. And and and she told
Speaker 2: him he was going to go scold the dogs because
Speaker 2: the dogs were going crazy, his bear dogs. And she said,
Speaker 2: don't worry about those dogs. Heat up that youngin's bottle.
Speaker 2: I mean she you know, I mean, you kind of
Speaker 2: get these little peaks. She wasn't some lady that got
Speaker 2: all beat up. She loved him and they and they
Speaker 2: really did. And then and then I wanted to include
Speaker 2: the story of him talking about meeting her. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is an eighty four year old man. They've been
Speaker 2: married for sixty three years. There's a lot of outcomes
Speaker 2: of a marriage that long. If you said, how'd you
Speaker 2: meet your wife? I mean I don't know. Barry told
Speaker 2: it passionately, like I just could tell he liked that story.
Speaker 5: That's what I was going to say. A marriage of
Speaker 5: sixty three years with a setup like that does not
Speaker 5: last without mutual respect and adoration and all those things.
Speaker 5: It's not one that is built on domination, you know.
Speaker 10: I you know, this day and time, people don't believe
Speaker 10: the way I believe. But that is an important part
Speaker 10: of our society. I mean, I'm bigger and stronger than Hazel.
Speaker 10: I can go out and haul logs. I can bring
Speaker 10: money in. Your job is really more important. You raise
Speaker 10: the kids. I mean, she's got her imprint on little kids.
Speaker 10: Every day she's taken care of them. She's I mean,
Speaker 10: it's a bigger job. The job of the man back
Speaker 10: then was probably easier. It's it's if this offends you,
Speaker 10: you need to do a little research, You need to
Speaker 10: do a little thinking. Because this was a beautiful relationship.
Speaker 10: She loved doing it. He needed it done for him
Speaker 10: so he could put all his energy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were a team.
Speaker 9: Into into the Pitts milk plant yep, you know an
Speaker 9: hour home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he needed a copilot to drive the boonshine back.
Speaker 10: To me, the women are the big heroes of the
Speaker 10: world period, and uh just because they and they love
Speaker 10: taking care of a husband, children. There's nothing that's no honorable.
Speaker 10: It's no honorable. Now our world has changed. It started
Speaker 10: changing in the fifties where women went to war work.
Speaker 10: Now then all of a sudden, you know, we we're
Speaker 10: sharing these duties. And a lot of times the women
Speaker 10: are more gifted than the men, and they can move
Speaker 10: up and bring more money home like Misty does over.
Speaker 1: And that's what you do now, you stay home.
Speaker 3: Playing gold.
Speaker 8: Also, I think the system, the economic systems have changed
Speaker 8: a lot as well. I mean the like if you
Speaker 8: think about what was required to put food on the
Speaker 8: table at that time. I mean, if we're gonna like
Speaker 8: grind wheat, we to put food on the table and
Speaker 8: and have sour dough and smoke. If they're going to
Speaker 8: kill a bear that you smoke so that the kids
Speaker 8: can eat in the wintertime, that's a lot of work
Speaker 8: that you can't do that has to be done during
Speaker 8: daylight hours because you also don't even have running water.
Speaker 8: And I mean they were talking about not having a
Speaker 8: toilet in the house, so that stuff has.
Speaker 4: To be done.
Speaker 1: That was that you're mixing your podcast.
Speaker 5: That's one big story, Hazel.
Speaker 1: Hazel and and Barry. We're a little further in time.
Speaker 4: Okay, but but still I'm just saying, like he's got.
Speaker 2: John Plot wouldn't go to the bathroom at the house,
Speaker 2: that's right, which actually is very reasonable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you imagine caves in your house. He's like, hey,
Speaker 1: I need to go, and he's like going to go
Speaker 1: in the house.
Speaker 4: It's true. Yeah, I thought of it like that till
Speaker 4: the podcast.
Speaker 8: But from my point of being like, it's it's an
Speaker 8: economic I mean, there's there's a massive economic contribution that
Speaker 8: she's making.
Speaker 4: To the house by having all that stuff done.
Speaker 8: I think that people don't realize with convenience food, with
Speaker 8: the way that we live now, some of those things
Speaker 8: have are are removed.
Speaker 4: But and there were.
Speaker 8: Societal constraints on on on women. Sure, but I just
Speaker 8: think that in a house like that, where every it
Speaker 8: is a team, we're not looking at who's got thought Tracy.
Speaker 2: It was cool when you're talking to Tracy there's always
Speaker 2: this little side just side philosophies or is that he
Speaker 2: talked about. I mean, like him saying that she only
Speaker 2: she only went to town once a week and wouldn't go
Speaker 2: out with other makeup. And he said, you know today
Speaker 2: country means you dressed down. He said, back in the day,
Speaker 2: the mountain people I was around, they dressed up to
Speaker 2: go out like they were interested in putting on their
Speaker 2: best yeh.
Speaker 1: And then to move it a little further along. He
Speaker 1: he we.
Speaker 2: Actually talked and had this like big section about kind
Speaker 2: of like modern economics around land, and I had to
Speaker 2: condense it.
Speaker 9: Like way down.
Speaker 4: I was super interesting.
Speaker 2: Because he said, he said, Barry's mom and dad were
Speaker 2: would have been like a dirt poor people who well,
Speaker 2: let me, let me, let's move it to Barry. Barry
Speaker 2: worked for twenty five cents an hour at a milk
Speaker 2: plant and was able to buy a relatively sizable farm. Yeah,
Speaker 2: by the time Tracy's father, who we didn't bring up
Speaker 2: on the podcast, but you know, Barry's son was Tracy's father,
Speaker 2: he had to work a job in town to and
Speaker 2: run a farm. By the time Tracy, now basically the
Speaker 2: farm is not producing money. You got to have a
Speaker 2: job to even have a farm.
Speaker 1: And then his son.
Speaker 2: Will struggle with the wages. You either have to inherit
Speaker 2: a farm or with the wages that are paid to
Speaker 2: the average person. And I mean, I think this is
Speaker 2: not just East Tennessee, to be much of the world.
Speaker 2: You're not gonna just work a normal job as a
Speaker 2: plumber or as a even a heck, even an insurance
Speaker 2: agent or whatever and be able to probably go buy
Speaker 2: a big farm without some kind of external help. And anyway,
Speaker 2: what happened in Europe is happening here, and it's just
Speaker 2: the economics of a civilize like we came into the
Speaker 2: The settlement of America is so unique to the world.
Speaker 2: I mean in recorded history, there has never been a
Speaker 2: big spot on a map that was just settled this quickly.
Speaker 2: And obviously there's there's a lot of problems with you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, this place was a grand civilization of the
Speaker 2: Native American tribes with Europeans got here and they were
Speaker 2: like wilderness, and the Native Americans were like nor civilization
Speaker 2: we've been, so you know, there's all that, But but
Speaker 2: the expansion of America, it's like the people that were
Speaker 2: most destitute, like the long hunters, they were the ones
Speaker 2: going to the edge of the frontier. And and all
Speaker 2: those people that were settling in East Tennessee on that
Speaker 2: rough mountain land.
Speaker 1: There were poor people. People didn't want that land. And
Speaker 1: now the.
Speaker 2: Economics of the country has grown so much. Land is
Speaker 2: so valuable. There's so many people wanting to come here.
Speaker 2: That rough land that is not valuable for agriculture is
Speaker 2: now worth a ton of money. Anyway, it's just it's
Speaker 2: it's what happened in Europe, it's happening here, my grandma.
Speaker 2: Is nothing that we can do about it. It's not
Speaker 2: like bad or good. It's just the way it is.
Speaker 6: My grandmother told me that her grandpa when in that
Speaker 6: area where I'm from down there, he said, a gallon
Speaker 6: of whiskey and an acre of land costs a dollar each.
Speaker 6: And if her father, her grandfather, has spent all the
Speaker 6: money he spent on whiskey on land, the millionaires, they
Speaker 6: would have named that county after us.
Speaker 3: We'd own it all.
Speaker 6: So I mean that was I you think about that. Yeah,
Speaker 6: an acre of land that's put timber on it a dollar?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 10: So every generation, Hey, pull your mic now, every generation
Speaker 10: has those stories. And there's stuff at there today that
Speaker 10: will be told fifty years That old Gary Nukele he
Speaker 10: had just if he had just.
Speaker 3: Done this saved ten thousand dollars an acre for that land.
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's a great that's a great point because one
Speaker 12: day we will, should the earth persist, which I'm not
Speaker 12: sure that it will.
Speaker 2: Uh we they'll talk about us like we're talking about
Speaker 2: Barry Charlton. Sure, And I mean I've got stories about
Speaker 2: dad when we first kids. You know, you could have
Speaker 2: bought one hundred and eighty acres for five hundred dollars
Speaker 2: an acre in western Arkansas and the primary and I
Speaker 2: mean like ninety thousand dollars, we could have had one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty acres, which today that land is worth
Speaker 2: who knows what I mean.
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, got it if we'd have just
Speaker 1: bought it.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there's always this this economic thing going on,
Speaker 2: and at the time it's always expensive. Like at the
Speaker 2: time that was too much money for Gary Nukeom. Now
Speaker 2: it's like shoot man, ninety grand for one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty prime acres.
Speaker 1: Like, we'll figure out a way.
Speaker 4: To do that.
Speaker 10: It doesn't necessarily in the future when they look back,
Speaker 10: it probably will be land, but it could be something
Speaker 10: totally different. You know, we all talk about being from Arkansas,
Speaker 10: we'd a bought Walmart stock you know, Dillard stock Co.
Speaker 10: You know, you know who knows what it is. But
Speaker 10: we're overlooking something to day.
Speaker 1: It's a good point.
Speaker 3: Ken's reward.
Speaker 1: This is a this is also interesting Isaac's favorite part.
Speaker 5: I thought that when was it?
Speaker 3: Ben?
Speaker 5: Is that Jones when he was talking about the basically
Speaker 5: inheritance of his family and his dogs and you guys
Speaker 5: were talking about like how fragile that is. That was
Speaker 5: fascinating to me. It's like if you inherited a million
Speaker 5: dollars that was surrounded by dynamite and there was a
Speaker 5: faulty wire in there or sparking, you're just like one
Speaker 5: small incident away from losing all of it, Like if
Speaker 5: you get your bloodline broken, Like there it goes. But
Speaker 5: like the whole point of having it is putting it
Speaker 5: in a dangerous situation. Yeah, it's that was super fascinating
Speaker 5: to me, Like because you think about all of this
Speaker 5: history that goes into this line of dogs and then
Speaker 5: to think like the whole point is putting them up
Speaker 5: against bears.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just kind of blew my mind.
Speaker 2: Well, when I was standing there with Ben and and
Speaker 2: I don't know Ben's twenty nine, twenty nine I'm gonna
Speaker 2: come back to Ben. I'm standing there with all his
Speaker 2: dogs in this. You remember when I on the first
Speaker 2: episode said that somebody might bypass in Appalachia a backyard
Speaker 2: or a little watered hollows. What I said, where they've
Speaker 2: got the dogs tethered and can come down to get water.
Speaker 2: Dark brindled dogs going up a hollow man, there is
Speaker 2: nothing more.
Speaker 1: If you know, when you see that, you're like, this
Speaker 1: is special. That's what Roy Clark's house looks like. If
Speaker 1: you went to Roy Clark's house.
Speaker 2: You can send one hundred Americans up his road and
Speaker 2: it'd be interesting to see what they would say because
Speaker 2: most of them would not see the They just wouldn't
Speaker 2: know they would. They would see something different to those
Speaker 2: of us on the inside. Ignorant is well, And I'm
Speaker 2: standing out and Ben's back with Ben and Tracy's dogs
Speaker 2: and I don't know. Let's just say there's twenty five
Speaker 2: dogs there and it's like that's all of them. And now,
Speaker 2: granted I want to say this, they have close friends
Speaker 2: that run Houston Valley dogs. I mean it takes more
Speaker 2: than that's not enough. That's not enough, but there's not
Speaker 2: and I don't know this, so I can say it
Speaker 2: without like getting in their business. I bet there's not
Speaker 2: five guys that they're super close with that they breed
Speaker 2: back and forth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, three or four maybe there.
Speaker 2: But there would also be some historical things that happened
Speaker 2: years ago, like you know, maybe twenty years ago Barry
Speaker 2: gave somebody a dog that they kind of still have
Speaker 2: some of that blood that's kind of disconnected, So you know,
Speaker 2: there's some of it. But like the core of the
Speaker 2: Houston Valley strained plots is setting right there in front
Speaker 2: of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those dogs are getting hunted like crazy.
Speaker 10: And yeah, it's been long, small bone with short ears, yeah.
Speaker 2: He said, a short body, longer legs, short ears and
Speaker 2: small almost yeah almost black.
Speaker 5: Just enough bad register now now that car, buddy.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 2: That's the same way Roy I recorded Roy Clark describing
Speaker 2: to me the color that he liked in a bear dog,
Speaker 2: and and the way Roy Clark says it is he says,
Speaker 2: I can't do my Roy. I've got a great mister Roy.
Speaker 2: If you hear this, you know how much I love you.
Speaker 2: I have a great Roy Clark impression. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: I can do it right now, but he he says,
Speaker 2: I like them. When they're when twenty feet away from them,
Speaker 2: you think they're jet black, But when you're right up
Speaker 2: on them, you can see just enough brandle to register him.
Speaker 1: He basically said the same thing.
Speaker 2: Ben said, yeah, And now now I don't think I
Speaker 2: don't there's some people that don't like that.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I don't want to name any names.
Speaker 2: There's a there's a there's a there's a sect of
Speaker 2: plot people that do not like the black ones because
Speaker 2: historically the dogs were a little more brindle, and there
Speaker 2: was some controversy over the registration of allowing buckskin plots
Speaker 2: to be registered. Buckskin plots can be look like a
Speaker 2: yellow lab. I mean, you'd see Roy has one, He's
Speaker 2: got all these black dogs, and then there's a yellow
Speaker 2: lab sitting there and you're like, what is that?
Speaker 1: And he's like, it's a plot. Where'd you get it?
Speaker 3: There's no and you turn them anyway in the sun,
Speaker 3: you can't see any brindle at all.
Speaker 2: Man, the ones that I've seen, I'm telling you you,
Speaker 2: you'd put them on a stand in flooded timber.
Speaker 1: In Arkansas and expect.
Speaker 2: And he was saying that they may kill me for
Speaker 2: that if I die, it's because I said that.
Speaker 4: So many reasons for you to die these days.
Speaker 2: Well, but but point being, the buckskin used to be
Speaker 2: like this deep traditional thing and it was special. They
Speaker 2: were special because you'd have just every five generations, you'd
Speaker 2: have one that would be.
Speaker 3: That's my that's my question when he said clarify for me,
Speaker 3: when he said register, is he talking about register in
Speaker 3: UKC or is he talking about register that you can actually.
Speaker 2: See No, No, UKC. They can't be jet black if
Speaker 2: you have a dog yellow one. Well, okay, that's only
Speaker 2: in the last two years have they allowed buckskin plots
Speaker 2: to be registered. Nice And it was a major controver,
Speaker 2: major controversy because what happened was is there became an
Speaker 2: out here we go again if I died because they
Speaker 2: killed me. What happened was is that Brendle bear dogs
Speaker 2: a a prized plot.
Speaker 1: Hound was a was a buckskin plot.
Speaker 2: And they accused some guys of breeding in red bones
Speaker 2: to get buckskin plots, and so so these breeders would
Speaker 2: be like, heck, you need to breed that dog with
Speaker 2: a buck with a with a red bone, and you'll
Speaker 2: get all the buckskin plots. You want and be able
Speaker 2: to sell those for good money. So people were accusing
Speaker 2: people of doing stuff like that because you could quickly
Speaker 2: get a buckskinish dog by putting in something red or
Speaker 2: lighter colored. And so that's when some of the guys
Speaker 2: were like, no buckskins. But buckskins were clearly traditionally inside
Speaker 2: the breed. And I have talked to me any of
Speaker 2: prominent plot breeders, and I didn't ask Tracy. Tracy, Tracy
Speaker 2: probably be listening to this. I would like to know
Speaker 2: if Houston Valley has ever thrown a buckskin plot to.
Speaker 3: The original five were supposed to be yellow dogs.
Speaker 2: Of the original five that were definitely on that ship.
Speaker 5: If this mule, what would be considered the flashy variety.
Speaker 2: Oh, the flashy is the Maltese and buckskin. Now, I
Speaker 2: don't want to I don't want to put words in.
Speaker 2: This is all real serious stuff.
Speaker 8: So this is pre technical. I think that we're I
Speaker 8: think we're in the weeds.
Speaker 2: Oh, dude, this is where the meat of this bone
Speaker 2: is at. Has had a few Maltese plots. His dogs
Speaker 2: are just like almost jet black, and they'll pump out
Speaker 2: a Maltese plot. Now, a gray undercoat with black stripes.
Speaker 2: They're really neat dogs, very hard to come by. So uh, Brent, Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 2: if Miss Nukeman thinks we're in the weeds, she's probably right.
Speaker 9: We are.
Speaker 3: She normally is.
Speaker 5: I don't think being in the weeds.
Speaker 1: Is wrong, not always, Brent.
Speaker 2: Just favorite part of the podcast, oh for just analysis,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 6: Talking about God Man, it was good. I told you
Speaker 6: before we started this may this episode may surpass anything
Speaker 6: that we've ever done, or you've ever done, that we
Speaker 6: ever listened to or talked about.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 6: Identified a lot with his hatred for moonshine because my
Speaker 6: moonshine steals were meth labs. I felt the same way. Hmmm,
Speaker 6: So I think that part I really I'm not comparing
Speaker 6: myself to him by any means. I'm just saying that
Speaker 6: I know where he was coming from them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I thought an interesting nuance that they introduced was he
Speaker 5: was like, it's basically depicted as a binary scenario where
Speaker 5: you're either a moonshiner and you're of the people, or
Speaker 5: you're a revenuer and you're whatever. He's like, he didn't
Speaker 5: care about the taxes. Yeah, he cared about what it
Speaker 5: was doing to his community, which is I thought, an
Speaker 5: interesting nuanced view.
Speaker 2: You know, I'd never well, I have heard that analogy
Speaker 2: before about that. You know, moonshine is, moonshine is today's
Speaker 2: like myth and then here we are like glorifying moonshiner's,
Speaker 2: you know in fifty years where they glorify the meth addicts.
Speaker 2: You know, but Brent, fifty years from now, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: make a bear grease about you.
Speaker 3: What are you even talking about, Brent?
Speaker 4: Bust that would be good. I'd listen to that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, carry on, Brent, carry on. That was just the start.
Speaker 1: It was just an opening comment from.
Speaker 2: Why was it the best he's He told me that
Speaker 2: beforehand he said, Clay, this may have been the best burgers.
Speaker 3: That I liked.
Speaker 6: The when he talked about the routine that he had
Speaker 6: reminded me so much of my grandparents. And then I said,
Speaker 6: we said it wall Ago, not to add nauseam. You
Speaker 6: know that he would my grandpa wouldn't bossing my grandmother around.
Speaker 6: It was if he wanted warm food.
Speaker 3: It was be there then.
Speaker 6: And when he got up, take his bath, all that stuff,
Speaker 6: because she had stuff to do, you know, she she
Speaker 6: got up before him in the morning, got him off
Speaker 6: to the farm, and then she worked there at the house,
Speaker 6: and then she went to the store that they owned
Speaker 6: and she worked that and then she come home and
Speaker 6: then she fixed up her and he come in, and
Speaker 6: it's that whole, that whole scenario. My grandmother was the
Speaker 6: lynch pin that held the whole family together. She was
Speaker 6: running the whole show. And my grandfather went to his
Speaker 6: grave saying she was the boss. You know, hey, Hazel
Speaker 6: was the boss.
Speaker 3: I think there.
Speaker 9: She didn't get up and cook. She puts the cereal
Speaker 9: out at night and Tony if you don't like it.
Speaker 6: So that a good point identified with the whole and
Speaker 6: I'm sure a lot of people do you know, identify
Speaker 6: with that, with their grandparents, with that that era. So
Speaker 6: that that was I love all the dogs too, I mean,
Speaker 6: you know, I'm crazy about hunting dogs. But to me,
Speaker 6: that the family aspect of that and his his role
Speaker 6: in trying to do make his community better, I really
Speaker 6: identify with that, So that that was my favorite part.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I appreciated that he was like, I'm gonna get revenge.
Speaker 3: I can do a little legal way or the illegal way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: I was surprised when Tracy used that word revenge, and
Speaker 2: I mean he was just quoting his grandpa. He's like,
Speaker 2: he's like, that's what he said to me. Like, I
Speaker 2: can't sugarcoat this thing. He said, I want revenge, which
Speaker 2: is just.
Speaker 1: Interesting, interesting, and.
Speaker 2: I was amazed at the you know, you hear, might
Speaker 2: hear a story about somebody moonshining or something, and when
Speaker 2: you actually go dig into it, you realize there's not
Speaker 2: a whole lot there. I mean, you know, like we
Speaker 2: have some moon a moonshine story in our family of
Speaker 2: my grandfather, my mother's father, who went to some type
Speaker 2: of juvenile jail before he was eighteen for being involved
Speaker 2: in the transportation of illegal moonshine.
Speaker 3: We talked about that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's like you dig into it and that's about
Speaker 1: all there is.
Speaker 2: Like he apparently didn't stayed doing that, or at least
Speaker 2: didn't get caught and that YadA YadA. I had heard
Speaker 2: these stories about Barry from Tracy and others, and it's
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, Barry was a he was a big, big,
Speaker 2: really involved in bustin moonshine, and this story, when you
Speaker 2: dig into it, it just went deeper. And deeper and
Speaker 2: deeper and deeper, and I didn't touch the surface of it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I really didn't trust what Tracy told me.
Speaker 1: Today.
Speaker 2: I communicated a little bit with him and he said,
Speaker 2: he said it was you know, really enjoyed it. The
Speaker 2: family enjoyed it. And he said, you really, we really
Speaker 2: didn't touch the surface of really who Barry Tarlton was.
Speaker 2: And I believe it and and and even the stories
Speaker 2: so in the interview that Bob Plott did, and I
Speaker 2: got a lot of thanks to Bob Plott for just
Speaker 2: being there.
Speaker 1: And but then Tracy filmed.
Speaker 4: It and uh, Bob pt did the interview.
Speaker 2: Talking to Barry Tarleton and you didn't hear Bob's voice
Speaker 2: on it. But I wanted to give Bob credit for
Speaker 2: just being there to interview Barry months before he died.
Speaker 2: And uh, Barry was it was late in his life,
Speaker 2: and you know, you could tell like his his his
Speaker 2: world was kind of closing in a little bit because
Speaker 2: he just wasn't that elaborate. He wasn't he just didn't
Speaker 2: quite have but he he it was unreal. The stories,
Speaker 2: I mean, like him saying they were like did you
Speaker 2: bust some moonshine steals and he was like, yeah, one
Speaker 2: time I busted a big big steals a thousand gallons.
Speaker 2: And he told the whole story of how he busted
Speaker 2: the big He said, he said, they went, they snuck
Speaker 2: into this moonshine still and I just couldn't include it. It
Speaker 2: was just too long. He snuck into this moonshine steal
Speaker 2: him and another guy, you know, two law enforcement officers
Speaker 2: armed and they're trying to just get in there to
Speaker 2: get their eyes on it and maybe catch the guys.
Speaker 2: And on the way in they run in two boys,
Speaker 2: young boys, and Barry call them over and says, don't
Speaker 2: you tell anybody you saw us here. He gave both
Speaker 2: the boys five dollars each and told them, don't you
Speaker 2: tell anybody that you saw us here. Apparently they were
Speaker 2: right behind somebody's house, because he said the two boys
Speaker 2: left with the five dollars, and he heard them go
Speaker 2: down to their house and yell for their mama, mama,
Speaker 2: and uh and and uh. He said he could hear
Speaker 2: them tell their mom that they just saw the law
Speaker 2: and uh and and some and he talked about like
Speaker 2: circling around the mountain and then running into the adults
Speaker 2: that were in charge of the Moonshine Still, and he
Speaker 2: knew them. They were just people that he knew. Is
Speaker 2: just like Bill. And they didn't put up a fight,
Speaker 2: like it wasn't a shootout. It was just it was
Speaker 2: just like, got you Bill, Yep, we're going to take
Speaker 2: this still and uh and and then.
Speaker 1: So they arrest him without without tussle. They arrested these guys.
Speaker 2: And then but one of the guys they arrested was
Speaker 2: a young guy like probably twenty years old. That's the
Speaker 2: impression I got, who was wanted for murder that they've
Speaker 2: been trying to catch. This kid had killed a man
Speaker 2: with a set of.
Speaker 5: Pliers for seventy eight cents.
Speaker 2: Like he was trying to rob him, basically, and he
Speaker 2: had seventy eight somehow they knew it was for seventy
Speaker 2: eight cents. And I don't think the kid meant to
Speaker 2: kill him, but he killed him with a pair of
Speaker 2: plyers and hauled him off way deep in the mountains,
Speaker 2: down in a halla and dumped the body. And Barry
Speaker 2: got the guy in a room, an interrogation room, and
Speaker 2: was just like, you killed that guy, didn't you, And
Speaker 2: basically the guy confessed to kill them, and he said,
Speaker 2: where's the body? And he told Barry right where the
Speaker 2: body was. Barry got in his car, drove twenty miles
Speaker 2: out into the mountains, walked down in this deep haula
Speaker 2: and found the body.
Speaker 1: They hauled it out.
Speaker 2: I mean, there was just one story that just sparked
Speaker 2: in a his mind, like and then you know the
Speaker 2: tommy gun story. It's like, what you heard was all
Speaker 2: that he told. But it's like, wait a minute, where
Speaker 2: were you who had a Tommy gun and was shooting
Speaker 2: your car?
Speaker 5: Any one of these stories you would have a hard
Speaker 5: time telling in an hour and four minute podcasts, much
Speaker 5: less a lifetime. Eighty four years or eighty two years
Speaker 5: of these stories seemingly all the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, just the amount of shootouts and killing that
Speaker 2: was going on back in those times was just unbelievable.
Speaker 2: And there he also in part of the part of
Speaker 2: the interview that I just I just couldn't put in there,
Speaker 2: Barry said that the law didn't cope come back in
Speaker 2: the Houston Valley very often.
Speaker 1: That's why he wanted to be constable, is because the sheriff,
Speaker 1: like Dodge City man, he said, he said.
Speaker 2: The law was just too far back it just they
Speaker 2: just didn't come out there, and so he had to
Speaker 2: kind of take it into his own hands.
Speaker 10: And everybody didn't have an iPhone to take pictures of
Speaker 10: videos of what was going on, you know, a little
Speaker 10: free run. Hey, one thing before you you quit, and
Speaker 10: we can answer this afterwards. But I was intrigued by
Speaker 10: these dogs in that they weren't fighting dogs. You know,
Speaker 10: if you just ask me, I'd go in and give
Speaker 10: me a stinking pit bull and a Great Dane. You
Speaker 10: give me some big old dog that you're not worried
Speaker 10: about that. Apparently it was running dogs. It's what they
Speaker 10: wanted once they got to the bear. I mean, they
Speaker 10: a little long legged, shortier dogs, not gonna be whipping
Speaker 10: the bear.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, a pack of them could maybe. Well that's
Speaker 2: that's the thing is. They're not trying to overpower a bear.
Speaker 2: They've got a bear. A black bear is the hardest
Speaker 2: big game animal in North America to tree, more than
Speaker 2: a mountain lion, more than a coon, more than a fox,
Speaker 2: more than a whatever.
Speaker 1: You have to a bear dog.
Speaker 2: I have heard it said, and and I'm gonna say
Speaker 2: it just because it's it's a compelling thought. Even though
Speaker 2: some one might argue about it. They're the They have
Speaker 2: to be the most athletic dog in the world.
Speaker 3: Like that.
Speaker 1: There's not I mean, more more than any working dog.
Speaker 2: A bear dog has to have a unique set of characteristics.
Speaker 2: Gotta have an incredible nose to be able to track,
Speaker 2: gotta have the nerve, as Roy Clark and the Lower
Speaker 2: Mountain bear hunters say, they got to be nervy. That's
Speaker 2: a big thing is that you turn Tim loose on
Speaker 2: a black bear and he gets swatted one time and
Speaker 2: he's like, ros, I'll be.
Speaker 3: Treading to squirrels.
Speaker 1: I'll be I'll just keep treading squirrels.
Speaker 2: Ninety eight percent of dogs on planet Earth ninety nine
Speaker 2: point nine probably encounter a bear. They finally catch one,
Speaker 2: and they're like, holy cow, I had no idea that
Speaker 2: you were big and harry and mean and could kill me.
Speaker 2: A bear dog's got to have the right amount of
Speaker 2: want to catch you but not get killed, because if
Speaker 2: they just run in and grab hold of a bear,
Speaker 2: they're gonna die. Yeah, you gotta have They got to
Speaker 2: have incredible athleticism. So I mean, they're not breeding for
Speaker 2: some big yeah, like a dog to run in and
Speaker 2: catch a bearry. He's got to be able to travel
Speaker 2: miles and miles through mountains.
Speaker 10: The other side of my question is if you went
Speaker 10: around the country and ask a different type pound man,
Speaker 10: you know, plot man, what what what are you describing
Speaker 10: your dog? You know, Ben said, long legs, small body,
Speaker 10: short ears. This other guy's he gonna what's he gonna say?
Speaker 10: I mean, you know, so apparently there's a lot of
Speaker 10: he used a word like style of dog.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, uh.
Speaker 3: That's the way in just in every breed, you know.
Speaker 6: I know my buddy Ricks he likes a forty five
Speaker 6: pound walker dog and a female to coon hunt. I
Speaker 6: know boys that like, don't bring it to the house
Speaker 6: unless it's gonna be over seventy pounds.
Speaker 3: You know, every breeze.
Speaker 9: You know, labs are like that.
Speaker 10: Guys like a small female a lot of times to
Speaker 10: retrieve ducks.
Speaker 9: But anyway, now.
Speaker 2: What what Tracy said though, was he's said, in these
Speaker 2: mountains here, serious plot men. If they never spoke to
Speaker 2: each other, didn't know each other, and you went to him,
Speaker 2: they would have pretty close to the same thing, because
Speaker 2: they've all got to do.
Speaker 1: The same job.
Speaker 2: Now, I will say that I hunted with a very
Speaker 2: reputable plot breeder named Curtis Walker one time. Honestly some
Speaker 2: of the most of them, Yeah, Curtis Walker, plot man West
Speaker 2: Virginia plots. Yeah, some of the most impressive dogs I've
Speaker 2: hunted with. They had a dog that I guarantee you
Speaker 2: weigh one hundred pounds. They called him Copper A plot. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I watched, I mean I hunted with the dog. I
Speaker 2: saw it, and they said it was one of the
Speaker 2: best bear dogs, I mean, as good a bear dog
Speaker 2: as they've ever had.
Speaker 1: And he weighed that dog was huge.
Speaker 2: It was a plot, I mean just and again going
Speaker 2: back to this idea of strains, and Ben Jones said,
Speaker 2: you know, I asked Ben, I said, what do you
Speaker 2: like about? And Ben said, Clay, I don't really like plots.
Speaker 2: I just like mine. Yeah, yeah, there's there, there's there's
Speaker 2: a lot of variation, but I would say the big
Speaker 2: one hundred pound copper dog is an outlier.
Speaker 8: Let me tell you what I like about a good plot.
Speaker 8: Him to me, Okay, if I were looking for a plot, hen, okay,
Speaker 8: here's the things they'd have to have. Are you always
Speaker 8: we are? I like the leapers, if you go, if
Speaker 8: you if you go, Coon hunting with Jed and Burn.
Speaker 8: Uh well, and we won't go coon hunt with anymore.
Speaker 8: So yeah, but Jed would. He loved when we would.
Speaker 3: You he's a climber.
Speaker 4: He's a climber.
Speaker 8: So you you you'd tree a coon by a hill
Speaker 8: and Jed would run to the top of the hill
Speaker 8: and leap from the hill to the top of the tree.
Speaker 8: And he would do it just to show off sometimes, Yeah,
Speaker 8: if you want to show And it was like clear
Speaker 8: he was like, yes, I get to leap. You could
Speaker 8: tell he always loved he loved it. I mean, I know,
Speaker 8: so I want a dog that's a leaper. I want
Speaker 8: a dog that's a singer. Jed has a real pretty
Speaker 8: voice and he likes to he likes to show it off.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't like him singing at night, but.
Speaker 8: I really love just sitting out there watching Jed just
Speaker 8: kind of look at the sky and think deep thoughts
Speaker 8: and sing these beautiful songs. So a leaper, a singer,
Speaker 8: a leaner you you can't walk up to, I mean,
Speaker 8: clearly is my favorite.
Speaker 2: These dogs, like if you were breeding, will have any functionality,
Speaker 2: could any work all on?
Speaker 8: So with Jed, you know, you come out anytime you're
Speaker 8: a near Jed, he just leans on you and sticks
Speaker 8: his arm up and.
Speaker 4: On you, just like you always know kind of you.
Speaker 8: You're loved and you're and then he would be able
Speaker 8: to treat a coon because if he can't, he's gonna.
Speaker 9: Get rid of it.
Speaker 8: So those are the four things that I'd like to
Speaker 8: I'd like to get out of a And Jed kind.
Speaker 4: Of pulled the wool over eyes for a while because
Speaker 4: he un it's.
Speaker 2: Kind of it's kind of like me and Brent. People
Speaker 2: think like I'm good at podcasting. It's only because I
Speaker 2: run around with brown.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So Jed ran around with Fern. He looked like a
Speaker 4: good coon dog.
Speaker 8: We lost Fern, and all of a sudden we realized,
Speaker 8: man Nen knows it all.
Speaker 4: He's just got a great hype hype man.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 10: One of the one of the pretty sights that I've
Speaker 10: seen in a while was when we stayed in your
Speaker 10: little cabin up there and I came down one morning
Speaker 10: and I looked through that back door the window, and
Speaker 10: it's that Jed. Jed was sitting there like he owned
Speaker 10: the world at the end of your barn with the
Speaker 10: doors open. He was just singing. I mean, it was
Speaker 10: just beautiful. I went from my phone. I thought, well,
Speaker 10: probably won't take going through that window.
Speaker 8: But it was really I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 8: He likes to sit at the the barn and you
Speaker 8: could see the mountain, you know, with the barn doors open,
Speaker 8: you could you can look over jed shoulder and see
Speaker 8: the mountain. And he's just singing those songs.
Speaker 1: People singing those songs. I come out in the middle
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: My neighbors, like, I have a few numbers that probably
Speaker 2: could hear me yell like, you can't frustrat the dog, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8: A little more frustrated. I can sleep through the dog.
Speaker 8: I can't sleep through hill.
Speaker 2: Bottle hollering at them dogs. Man, this has been a
Speaker 2: great render. I I've this this uh, this story to
Speaker 2: me is is really special. Really enjoyed telling it. It
Speaker 2: was a lot of fun. The We're gonna do something
Speaker 2: a little different the next couple episodes of Burgers.
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna tell you someone well, it's actually gonna
Speaker 5: be an hour and a half of just Bancho.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've kind of opened up a can of worms with
Speaker 2: this player thing, because I've I've got very specific needs,
Speaker 2: and like they can't be strings attached, like it's not like.
Speaker 5: Only to the banjo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully it's five strings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the only five would you go for if
Speaker 2: they played a four string banjo?
Speaker 4: There is a four string banjo?
Speaker 2: Okay, well just strings on the banjo, that's all, but
Speaker 2: clearly not interesting.
Speaker 5: No strings attached have to be named JB.
Speaker 2: Well they can be named whatever, Okay, But obviously I
Speaker 2: would be nice to this person stuff like that. But
Speaker 2: I like to I I used to own a business
Speaker 2: and I like to u uh undersell and over deliver,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be like, guess what, this is.
Speaker 2: Going to be terrible, and then they come in thinking
Speaker 2: it's going to be terrible, and then they realize it's
Speaker 2: not that bad.
Speaker 3: It's mediocre and it's great.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's short.
Speaker 2: So if we had a banjo player, actually, it would
Speaker 2: be really great and you'd probably at the time of
Speaker 2: your life for just an hour or so. Man, So
Speaker 2: great to see everybody. Thanks for coming up, Dad, Josh, Misty,
Speaker 2: Isaac Brent. So good to see everybody. Yeah, long Hunters,
Speaker 2: go ahead and pre order it.
Speaker 3: So big. It would be.
Speaker 2: You know, there's certain things that you can lean on
Speaker 2: your audience and just be like, please do this, just
Speaker 2: just do it, just.
Speaker 4: For us, give it to someone for Christmas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it'll be it's for the cost of the audiobook.
Speaker 2: It is a lot of entertainment, Like not just entertainment
Speaker 2: that's gonna just like flush through your brain, actual educational entertainment.
Speaker 4: You can be the smartest person in the room.
Speaker 10: Yeah, speaking of entertainment, we're going to watch you can
Speaker 10: cut this out. Shepherd new can play basketball. Last time
Speaker 10: I went, he scored thirty eight points.
Speaker 2: Yes that's yes, excellent sheep out of four street game
Speaker 2: of scoring over thirty.
Speaker 3: Happy birthday Bear John, Yeah that too. And he's only
Speaker 3: a sophomore.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, thank you so much