1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: name is Robert. 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. So a few weeks back 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 3: on the show, we did a series of episodes on 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 3: the Pacific gray whale. That series was based on some 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 3: actual travels that you and your family did rob with 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 3: where you got to encounter these wonderful beasts up close. 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 3: But ever since then, I've had a bit of a 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 3: low grade whale fever, and so based on maybe not 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 3: physical travels in the world, but literary travels of the mind, 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 3: I've been drawn back to the subject of wales. Today. 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: We are returning to talk not about a particular species 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: of whale, but about a particular anatomical feature common to wales, 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 3: the respiratory orifice of the cetacean, known as the spout 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 3: or the spiracle, or most commonly today, the blowhole. 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 2: That's right, one of the most famous features of the whale. 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: If you know nothing else about the whale, if your 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: knowledge of whale anatomy is limited to cartoons and emojis, 20 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: you know something of the spout, you may have the 21 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: wrong idea of what it's all about, and we'll get 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: into that in this episode. But you know that whales 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: do this right. 24 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 3: The saying is not thar she filter feeds. The saying 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 3: is thar she blows right now. I actually became interested 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: in this subject because I was reading a chapter in 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 3: the great American whale novel Moby Dick by Herman Melville. 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: Basic plot summary. A wandering young man named Ishmael and 29 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: his new companion quek weig enlist on a whale ship 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: captained by a man named Ahab, who is on a 31 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 3: revenge quest against a sperm whale that previously removed his leg. 32 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: A classic tale. Even if you're not familiar with the 33 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: with the book itself, you've probably seen one of the 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: many film adaptations over the years. 35 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 3: Yes, though, you know if you just watch a movie, 36 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: there is a quality to the text of Moby Dick 37 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: that probably won't quite come across because this is not 38 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 3: a strictly plot oriented story. It's not a novel where 39 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 3: the action of the plot always just kind of proceeds 40 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 3: ahead at a predictable pace. Many chapters of this book 41 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 3: are more like self contained informational or meditational essays on 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: subjects of all kinds. So there are little There are 43 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 3: chapters that are essays about the tackle and equipment of 44 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 3: whaling vessels, the monkey rope, the harpoon that you know, 45 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: all the different things. There are chapters about the accuracy 46 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 3: or relative lack thereof, of whale illustrations in books. There's 47 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: a chapter about clam chowder. There are chapters about way heads. 48 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 3: There's one chapter where he does phrenology on a whale head. 49 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 3: There are chapters about whale skin, whale tails, et cetera. Now, 50 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: when it comes to the quote seatology of Moby Dick, 51 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: it seems to be Melville is all over the place, 52 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 3: sourcing his information in some cases from published works of 53 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 3: naturalists of his day, which was, of course, of you know, 54 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: we would judge, by the scientific standards of today, of 55 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: mixed quality to begin with. And in other cases he 56 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 3: seems to be relying on kind of the trade knowledge 57 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: of sailors and whalemen. Some of his biological observations I 58 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: think seem fairly keen, and others are bizarre or downright implausible. 59 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: A very commonly cited example, though I don't know if 60 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: this represents the personal belief of Melville of the author 61 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: the narrator, Ishmael is firmly committed to the claim that 62 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: whales are fish. They are not, They're mammals. In fact, 63 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: I was reading about this in a paper called Herman 64 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: Melville Marine Biologist, by Harold Morowitz, published in The Biological 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 3: Bulletin in twenty eleven about the idea that whales are mammals. 66 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 3: Morowitz rights, quote this was not a new finding. Aristotle 67 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 3: in History of Animals some twenty two hundred years earlier. Oh, actually, 68 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 3: he's saying earlier than Linnaeus had noticed the difference between 69 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: members of the whales and porpoises and other marine inhabitants 70 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: the fish. He based this distinction on the cetaceans having 71 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,679 Speaker 3: the mammalian properties of being warm blooded, breathing air through lungs, 72 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 3: and feeding the young through memory glands. Melville, though through 73 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: his spokesman Ishmael, strongly disagreed and was willing to place 74 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: the anecdotal knowledge of a seaman against the formal knowledge 75 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 3: of academics. He insists that a whale is quote a 76 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 3: spouting fish with a horizontal tail. 77 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 2: Well, I guess this kind of falls under the whole 78 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: semen versus landsman sort of thing, right, like woad Aristotle, No, 79 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: never served on a whaling vessel. 80 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: That's right. This kind of came up in our Grey 81 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: Whale series two. What was the context? So was it 82 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 3: arguments about how aggressive actually the gray whale is. 83 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you go by the accounts of whalers who 84 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: did get to you know, throw in their their, their, their, 85 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: their two cents and name various things about whales as well. Yeah, 86 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: according to them, the gray whale is just an absolute monster, 87 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: you know, that will just absolutely destroy anything in its path, 88 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: which it's certainly capable of, as we discuss if it 89 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 2: has been provoked, but if it's not provoked, it as 90 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: a very peaceful and curious creature. Right. 91 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: So anyway, the narrator Ishmael's claims about whales, while in 92 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: my opinion always fascinating, are a mixed bag of some 93 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: sharp observations, some weird untruths, as well as ambiguous claims 94 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: somewhere in the middle. And I came across a number 95 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: of all of the above recently in chapter eighty five 96 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 3: of this book, which is called the Fountain. This chapter 97 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 3: is a consideration of the blowhole of the whale and 98 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 3: the towering exhalations from it, which, by the way, are 99 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 3: of great significance to whalers, because the spoutings of the 100 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 3: blowhole are what whalers use to cite the whales out 101 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 3: on the open sea and track them down. 102 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the varsy blows, right. I love that this 103 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 2: chapter is called the Fountain because, as we'll discuss, like 104 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: even the title of this chapter is deceptive. 105 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 3: Right, So Rob, if you don't mind, I'm gonna I'm 106 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 3: gonna set the themes here by reading the first couple 107 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: of paragraphs of this chapter excellently. 108 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: Are you gonna use the sailor voice from that? 109 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do pirate voice. Okay, I'm not strong enough. Okay. 110 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: So this is from Moby Dick by Herman Melville, the 111 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 3: chapter The Fountain that for six thousand years, and no 112 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: one knows how many millions of ages before, the great 113 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: whales should have been spouting all over the sea and 114 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: sprinkling and mystifying the gardens of the deep, as with 115 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: so many sprinkling or mystifying pots, And that for some 116 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: centuries back, thousands of hunters should have been close by 117 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 3: the fountain of the Whale, watching these sprinklings and spoutings, 118 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 3: that all this should be. And yet that down to 119 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: this blessed minute fifteen and a quarter minutes past one 120 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: o'clock pm on this sixteenth day of December eighty eighteen 121 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 3: fifty one, it should still remain a problem whether these 122 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: spoutings are after all really water or nothing but vapor. 123 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 3: This is surely a noteworthy thing. And then, skipping a 124 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: bit into the next paragraph, everyone knows that, by the 125 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 3: peculiar cunning of their gills, the finny tribes in general 126 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: breathe the air, which at all times is combined with 127 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 3: the element in which they swim. Hence, a herring or 128 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 3: a cod might live a century and never once raise 129 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 3: its head above the surface. But owing to his marked 130 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: internal sar structure, which gives him regular lungs like a 131 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: human being's, the whale can only live by inhaling the 132 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: disengaged air in the open atmosphere, wherefore the necessity for 133 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: his periodical visits to the upper world. But he cannot 134 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: in any degree breathe through his mouth, for in his 135 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 3: ordinary attitude, the sperm whale's mouth is buried at least 136 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: eight feet beneath the surface. And what is still more, 137 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: his windpipe has no connection with his mouth. No, he 138 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: breathes through his spiracle alone, and this is on the 139 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 3: top of his head. 140 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: Now, so far, so good. I mean, nothing too out 141 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 2: of whack and all that, I think. 142 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: Oh sure, And I think this does help give you 143 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: a sense of some of the wide eyed admiration and 144 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 3: the power of the mystery in describing whales at this 145 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: time when, like documentary footage was not a thing that 146 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 3: existed yet. You know, people couldn't like see planet Earth 147 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 3: and see what whales looked like. So you know, most 148 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 3: people probably never would have seen any whale in person. 149 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 3: Even if you had, you probably would have only seen them, 150 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 3: you know, breaching the surface occasionally or spouting from below. 151 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: Like you wouldn't have the kind of familiarity with whales 152 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 3: that even the average person has today just through being 153 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: able to see them in movies and documentaries. 154 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: Right, And of course, depending on when you're trying, you're 155 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: looking out to the ocean and potentially seeing a whale, 156 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: that their ability to see them might be greatly reduced 157 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: by human whaling enterprise, which you know certainly initially greatly 158 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: reduced the number of whales that would have been close 159 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: to shore and then eventually got into those populations that 160 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: were further from shore. 161 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, so this chapter on the fountain, on one hand, 162 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: it simply made me want to investigate the blowhole and 163 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 3: whale respiration as a subject in itself, which we will do. 164 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 3: But this chapter also raises a number of controversies and 165 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: Strange claims that I wanted to further investigate. One of 166 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 3: the controversies that Melville opens the chapter by acknowledging is 167 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 3: the question of what is the spout or what is 168 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 3: it that comes out of the spout? I guess it 169 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 3: depends on what you're using the word spout to refer 170 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 3: to there. But yet, what is coming out of the blowhole? 171 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: Is it water or is it, as Ishmael says, quote, 172 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: nothing but vapor. That's a question that did seem to 173 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 3: be a live one to some degree in Melville's day. 174 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 3: But also as far as Strange claims go, here's one 175 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 3: for you I want to read from later in the chapter. 176 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: Are you ready, Rob, Yes, let's have it. 177 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: Okay, so he says, quote, nor is it at all 178 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 3: prudent for the hunter to be over curious touching the 179 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: precise nature of the whale spout? It will not do 180 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 3: for him to be peering into it and putting his 181 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 3: face in it. You cannot go with your pitcher to 182 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 3: this fountain and fill it and bring it away, For 183 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 3: even when coming into slight contact with the outer vapory 184 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 3: shreds of the jet, which will often happen, your skin 185 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 3: will feverishly smart the acridness of the thing so touching it. 186 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 3: And I know one who coming into still closer contact 187 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: with the spout, whether with some scientific object in view 188 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 3: or otherwise, I cannot say, the skin peeled off from 189 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 3: his cheek and arm. Wherefore, among Whalemen the spout is 190 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: deemed poisonous. They try to evade it. Another thing I 191 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: have heard it said, and I do not much doubt 192 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 3: it that if the jet is fairly spouted into your eyes, 193 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 3: it will blind you. The wisest thing the investigator can do, then, 194 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: it seems to me, is to let this deadly spout alone. Okay, 195 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 3: So I read that, and I was like, what is 196 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 3: going on here? This sounds wrong to me. But I 197 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 3: wonder if there's some kind of basis to it, or 198 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 3: some way this rumor could have gotten started that would 199 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: be identifiable. I don't know. So that's another thing I 200 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 3: want to explore. The allegedly deadly, poisonous blinding spout steals 201 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 3: your power of sight, melts away your flesh like xenomorph blood. 202 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 2: This is something else. This goes beyond discussions of water 203 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 2: versus mists, because this is just not true. You know, 204 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 2: we mentioned my time with my family down in Mexico 205 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 2: getting to observe the gray whales. So when we were 206 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: out there, there would often be multiple gray whales around 207 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: the boat constantly, you know, breathing close to the surface. 208 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 2: And I should point out these were casual breaths. These 209 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 2: were not breaths that were occurring after deep dive or 210 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: anything like that, but still pretty explosive exhalations, a lot 211 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: of mist floating around in the air. I definitely got 212 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 2: whale spout on me from these mists, and I saw 213 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: on more than one occasion somebody take a rather stiff 214 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: blast of the whale spout directly in the face. Now 215 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: I don't recall if they had sunglasses on or what, 216 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: but it was it was alarming, but it wasn't anything 217 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: that caused undue grief or stress. It was one of 218 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: those things you kind of laugh about afterwards. You wash 219 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 2: off your face. And some of my fellow whale watchers, 220 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: they really took it as kind of a point of pride, 221 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 2: you know, they're like, they referred to it as a 222 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: kind of baptism. You know, you're just, hey, you wanted 223 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: to get close to these creatures. It doesn't get a 224 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: lot closer than that. 225 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: But what about your skin? Did it peel off or 226 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 3: do you still have your skin on? 227 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: I still have all, I mean all my skin was 228 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: intact following each of these episodes out on the water. 229 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: People who were blasted full on in the face also 230 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 2: were fine. So yeah, I mean, the only thing that 231 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: comes to mind is, I guess it seems possible that 232 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: someone could have in some sort of an allergic reaction 233 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: to something in the whale spout, but I've never heard 234 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: this is actually occurring. 235 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems to be based on everything I've read 236 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 3: that You're right, I could not find any evidence that 237 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,359 Speaker 3: what comes out of a whales blowhole is actually poisonous 238 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 3: or acrid to the point that it will will burn 239 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 3: your skin away. But we can still come back to this, 240 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: and I don't know, maybe at least try to investigate 241 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: anything we can figure out about the claim itself, despite 242 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 3: the fact that it seems obviously not true. 243 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: Right, Let's get into the basic science of whale spout 244 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: or whale blow. What is whale blow well? Its discussed 245 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: by Mark Carwadine in The Handbook of Whales, Dolphins and Porpoises, 246 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: an excellent book that I referred to several times in 247 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: our previous series on the gray whale. Whale blow or 248 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: whale spout refers to both the whales act of breathing 249 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: explosive exhalation followed by immediate inhalation, and also it refers 250 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: to the visible misty cloud that hangs in the air 251 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: afterwards quote condensed water, a fine spray of mucus from 252 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: inside the lungs, and seawater trapped in the blowholes. And 253 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: I think this was one of the main reasons that 254 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: I did take a little extra care to avoid staring 255 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: down over the side of the boat at a blowhole, 256 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: because I did not want to be sneezed full on 257 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: in the face by one of these these leviathans. But 258 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: I was not deathly afraid of it, and I'm fearful 259 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: of my sight. 260 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: Well sure, and you might want to avoid that, not 261 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 3: just because of the forcefulness of the blow. But for 262 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: another I mean one of the same reasons you wouldn't 263 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: want a human to sneeze in your face, which is 264 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: that like when somebody sneezes, that mucus might contain significant 265 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 3: loading of bacteria, and yeah, you don't know what that's 266 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 3: going to be. 267 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so I avoided it, but I also didn't 268 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: feel bad about I certainly got plenty of the mist 269 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: on me, because if you have multiple gray whales in 270 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: your vicinity, you're just in a cloud of the stuff. 271 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: So it's unavoidable. Yeah, so, you know, breaking it down 272 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 2: to brass tax here the obvious whales. Of course, as 273 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: we've stated aquatic mammals, they have to come to the 274 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: surface to breathe, but hold their breath while underwater, and 275 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: according to Hammond at All in the book Whales Their 276 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: Biology and Behavior, whales consciously can they're breathing, unlike most mammals, 277 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: who are reflex breathers like us. They breathe through their blowholes, 278 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: which are sometimes called their nares, which are essentially evolved 279 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 2: nostrils which can be muscularly opened and closed, and as 280 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: the authors point out, quote the air pressure in the 281 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 2: nasal passage is higher than the ambient pressure at the surface, 282 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: leading to the explosive release of air from the blowhole. 283 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: The exhaled air from the whales inside is warmer than 284 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: the surrounding air and carries moisture, which condenses into the 285 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: visible blow that so often is the first tell tale 286 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: sign of a whale. Now, as we've discussed in the 287 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: show before, baileen whales have two holes, while toothed whales 288 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,119 Speaker 2: have only one. Baileane whales also have a raised blowhole 289 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: with a frontal splash guard. It's the explosive exhalation and 290 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: quick inhalation takes a mere second in the smaller whales 291 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 2: in just a few seconds in the giant. So there's 292 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: a real economy of breathing in all of this. You know, 293 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: you come up to the surface, and contrary to a 294 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 2: lot of the he illustrations of whales, their whole head 295 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: does not come up. I mean, they can do some 296 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 2: of this, but it's not necessary for breathing. All they 297 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: have to do is just get the top of their 298 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: head that little blowhole above the water. To pull this 299 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: off in a manner of seconds and according to the 300 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: National Marine Life Center, just one exhalation pretty much empties 301 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: of whale's entire lungs. One of our exhalations only empties 302 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: part of our lungs. 303 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 3: Now, this is an interesting fact that I thought was 304 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 3: worth looking at a little bit deeper, this thing about 305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: whale lungs and capacity and the extent to which that 306 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 3: capacity is used. So I started thinking about the comparison 307 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: to underwater breath holding in humans. Most people who have 308 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 3: no special training can comfortably hold their breath underwater for 309 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 3: about a minute. I've seen estimates ranging from like one 310 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 3: to two minutes to thirty to ninety seconds. I don't 311 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 3: know if that depends on how old the population you're 312 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 3: looking at is, or you know, how physically fit they are, 313 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: but still, you know, the average person is not going 314 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: to be able to stay under that long, maybe a 315 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: couple minutes. Now, with conditioning, humans can stay under water 316 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 3: a lot longer. I was actually I was trying to 317 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: find the current human record for underwater breath holding, and 318 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: according to Guinness World Records, the record holder is a 319 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 3: Croatian man named Budimir Shobot, who on March twenty seventh, 320 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, stayed underwater for twenty four minutes and 321 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 3: thirty seven seconds, and at first I was like, wait 322 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 3: a second, that just cannot be correct. That is too long. 323 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 3: That is more than two full playthroughs of the album 324 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 3: length version, not the single version of I'd Do Anything 325 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 3: for Love, but I won't do that. Can't imagine it. 326 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 3: And to some degree my instincts were confirmed because I 327 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 3: realized there's a big caveat here Showbot's record and many 328 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: other people who compete for this particular record. This was 329 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 3: for a special category of breath holding, oxygen assisted voluntary 330 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 3: breath holding. So in this category, before you go under 331 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 3: the water, you can spend up to thirty minutes ventilating 332 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 3: with one hundred percent pure oxygen from a tank. So 333 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: this is a pre dive hyper ventilation process to like 334 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 3: superoxygenate your body. Of course, one hundred percent pure oxygen's 335 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 3: much higher than the content in the air. We normally 336 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 3: breathe at twenty one percent oxygen. So yeah, the people 337 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 3: who do this, they are super oxygenating their body before 338 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: they start. And also, of course this guy was highly trained. 339 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 3: He spent more than three years training six days a week. 340 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 3: So twenty four and a half minutes is the record 341 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 3: for this technology assisted hyper ventilation category. But I was 342 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 3: trying to find the not technology assisted version, and I 343 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: found a twenty twenty three article by a University of 344 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: Windsor kinesio pologist named Anthony Bain, and he writes that 345 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: the record for breath holding if you don't pregame with 346 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 3: pure oxygen, is less than half that. It is possibly 347 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 3: eleven minutes and thirty five seconds for men, which is 348 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 3: a record held by Stefan Mifsud. Though there's some dispute 349 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 3: about this one because there's also a guy named Bronco 350 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 3: Petrovitch who holds a record accredited by Guinness but not 351 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 3: by this other organization, a governing body called the International 352 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: Association for the Development of Apnea, which apparently does some 353 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 3: kind of certification of these records. And I don't want 354 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 3: to get drawn into a knife fight about which record 355 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 3: is legitimate, but let's just say the unassisted record for 356 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 3: men is somewhere between the eleven to twelve minute range, 357 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: and the record for women is nine minutes and two seconds, 358 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 3: held by Natalia Mulkanova. 359 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't want to make any enemies of people 360 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 2: who can hold their breath this long. 361 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 3: That does sound dangerous, just as a side note speaking 362 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: of people who can hold their breath shockingly long time. 363 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: This article also mentioned something I hadn't heard of at all, 364 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 3: Apparently in preparation for the filming of Avatar Too, The 365 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 3: Way of Water. The actress Kate Winslet trained in underwater 366 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 3: breath holding for several weeks, and on set she was 367 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 3: able to stay underwater for more than seven minutes, something 368 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 3: that I am sure, no matter how much I trained, 369 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 3: I could not do. She did this on camera too, 370 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 3: and you can watch a video of it. When she 371 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 3: pops up at the end, she asks, am I dead? 372 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 3: So hats off to Kate. 373 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: Wow. 374 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 3: By the way, did you see Way of Water? I 375 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 3: haven't seen it yet. 376 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: I did. Yeah, My family and I just doing the holidays. 377 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 2: It was super cold. One morning we got up and 378 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: saw a morning showing of Avatar two, complete with coffee 379 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 2: and multiple bathroom breaks because it's super long. But yeah, 380 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 2: it's fun and it's got space whales in it, so 381 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 2: that's kind of neat. You know. 382 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 3: There are some whales that can stay underwater without breathing 383 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 3: longer than we can go in a movie without a 384 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 3: bathroom break at least finish coffee involved, Yes, but While 385 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 3: that is individual records, there are also there are whole 386 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 3: cultures of people who regularly do extended underwater free diving 387 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: and standard for a long period of time. I was 388 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 3: looking at one study quickly just to mention by Ilardo 389 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 3: at All published in the journal Cell in twenty eighteen 390 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 3: called Physiological and Genetic Adaptations to Diving in Sea Nomads. 391 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 3: And this study was examining adaptations in the Sama people 392 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 3: also known as the Bajoo, a nomadic sea living people 393 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 3: of Southeast Asia who are well known for their amazing 394 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 3: free diving skills. In some cases they spend several hours 395 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 3: a day underwater, not continuously, but they will stay under 396 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 3: continuously for minutes at a time while free diving to 397 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 3: retrieve things from below. And this is part of been 398 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 3: part of their culture for thousands of years. And so 399 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 3: this study did some genomic and anatomical analysis of these 400 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 3: people to say, well, you know, the free diving skill 401 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 3: is common in their culture, do they typically have any 402 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 3: differences that assist in that? And the study did find 403 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 3: quote using a comparative genomic study, we showed that natural 404 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 3: selection on genetic variants in the PDE one zero a 405 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 3: gene have increased spleen size in the bajow, providing them 406 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 3: with a larger reservoir of oxygenated red blood cells. We 407 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 3: also find evidence of strong selections specific to the bajow 408 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 3: on bdk RB two, a gene affecting the human diving reflex. 409 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 3: And so they say that people living in this culture 410 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 3: have developed specific adaptations for hypoxia tolerance, for being better 411 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 3: at going longer with holding their breath underwater. But anyway 412 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 3: to come back to this sort of untrained natural human 413 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: range of peace, people who don't practice diving commonly, you know, 414 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 3: it's maybe like one to two minutes on average, more 415 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 3: like nine to twelve minutes at the extreme. Some whale species, 416 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: on the other hand, have, in extreme cases, as we said, 417 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 3: been observed to stay under the surface for hours. And 418 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 3: while that might not be normal, it's normal for whales 419 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 3: to stand er for longer than the unassisted record for humans. 420 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 3: It's commonly cited that sperm whales can stay under for 421 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 3: ninety minutes while hunting. So the question is how do 422 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 3: they do this? You might naturally assume the answer is 423 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 3: that the whales have bigger lungs, they can take a 424 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 3: deeper breath hold in more air because they've got bigger lungs. 425 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: But actually that's not the case. The strange thing is, 426 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 3: relative to body size, whales have significantly smaller lungs than humans. 427 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 3: Human lungs are roughly seven percent of body size on average, 428 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 3: but whale lungs can be less than half that, at 429 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: about three percent of body size. 430 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 2: That's fast, that's a great point. 431 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, So how does that worry the standard for like 432 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 3: movie length times while having lungs that are relatively smaller 433 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 3: than ours. So I was reading about this in a 434 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 3: book called The Encyclopedia of Marine Mammals edited by burned 435 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 3: In Puran from Academic Press two thousand and nine, and 436 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: there was a chapter on breathing in marine mammals by 437 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 3: the marine biologist Douglas Wartsock. And here's where we come 438 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 3: back to what you said, Rob about the relative difference 439 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 3: in how much the lung can empty. This concerns a 440 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 3: biological metric known as the tidal volume. Tidal volume is 441 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 3: the amount of air that is inhaled and exhaled during 442 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 3: normal respiration. It turns out most animals do not completely 443 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 3: empty and refill their lungs with each breath. Instead, they're 444 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: always exchanging some fractional percentage of the gas in their 445 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 3: lungs fresh air from the outside. What percentage of the 446 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 3: total lung capacity is exchanged with each breath varies by species, 447 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 3: and I guess probably also would vary with individual animals too, 448 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 3: but there are certainly species differences and there are trends 449 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: with groups of animals. According to Wartsock, the tidal volume 450 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 3: is a bigger percentage of the animal's total lung capacity 451 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: when you're looking at marine mammals than when you're looking 452 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 3: at terrestrial mammals. So you look at an average terrestrial mammal, horses, humans, 453 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 3: whatever tidal volume is going to be something like ten 454 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 3: to fifteen percent of total lung capacity. Meanwhile, for marine mammals, 455 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 3: and this would include not just whales, but other marine mammals, 456 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 3: pinnipeds and so forth, average tidal volume is much higher, 457 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 3: usually more than seventy five percent of total lung capacity, 458 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 3: so many multiples beyond the depth of gas exchange that 459 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 3: we accomplish when we breathe. For sea mammals like whales, 460 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 3: breathing in and out is just a more dramatic activity. 461 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: They're emptying and refilling to a near total extent, and 462 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 3: that's just for normal respiration. For what works out calls 463 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 3: vital capacity essentially the maximum title volume you're capable of 464 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 3: when you're like really breathing in and out as deeply 465 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 3: as you can. That rarely exceeds seventy five percent of 466 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 3: lung capacity in land based mammals, but marine mammals can 467 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 3: go higher than ninety percent. So even though again whales 468 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 3: might have smaller lungs relative to body size, they can 469 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: like almost totally collapse that lung to exhale and then 470 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 3: reinflate the lung totally, like huge exchange of gas. And 471 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 3: the question would be what makes that difference? Why would 472 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 3: marine mammals have the ability to sort of crush out 473 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 3: their lungs like that. Well, we can't really do the 474 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 3: same thing, Wortok says, quote. Marine mammal lungs contain more 475 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 3: elastic tissue than those of terrestrial mammals. The ribs contain 476 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 3: more cartilage and are thus more compliant than those of 477 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: terrestrial mammals. The lung is also more compliant. Marine mammal 478 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 3: lungs can collapse and reinflate repeatedly, whereas in terrestrial mammals, 479 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 3: lung collapse is a serious situation that requires intervention to reinflate, 480 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: although both terrestrial mammals and marine mammals inspire actively and 481 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 3: expire passively, so there's active working of a muscle to 482 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 3: breathe in and then relaxing of the muscle to breathe out. Quote. 483 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 3: The features noted earlier allow much greater elastic recoil of 484 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 3: the lungs chest, cavity, and diaphragm, and thus a greater 485 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 3: tidal volume in proportion to total lung capacity. So he's 486 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 3: almost painting a picture of whale lungs as this kind 487 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 3: of I don't know, like super elastica balloon or is 488 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 3: something that just kind of like springs back and forth. 489 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 3: And I know this isn't biologically accurate, but to my mind, 490 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 3: I was thinking about with this like, you know, naturally 491 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 3: collapsing lung that's just part of the breathing process. It's 492 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 3: almost in my brain like a whoope cushion being sat 493 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: on every time the whale breathes out. 494 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all of this. I think it brings 495 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 2: up something that is at once obvious about the whale 496 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: and also you know, a lot more sublime in many 497 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: ways as well. And that is of course that when 498 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: you look back at what whales may have looked like, 499 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 2: what their bodies may have been like when they were 500 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: land based organisms or their ancestors were, and you look 501 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: at their forms now, it's like they have changed so much, 502 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: they have evolved so much to become these masters of 503 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 2: the ocean, and there are all these various features like 504 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: this where it's just it's just absolutely alarming when you 505 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: look closer, even though I mean very obviously this is 506 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: the nature of the whale when you just look at 507 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 2: even just a basic sketch of their anatomy. 508 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, I mean this once eons ago quadrupedal mammal 509 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 3: that lived an ever increasing amount of its life in 510 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 3: the water and eventually became a fully marine organism. And 511 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: now one of its adaptations is that its lungs almost 512 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: completely collapse when it breeds out and create this forceful 513 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 3: burst of exhalation that is, in the end, what we 514 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: see when the whale, when the whale spouts or when 515 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 3: the blowhole opens, and it can be incredibly powerful when 516 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: the lung collapses. Wartsock writes, quote in gray whale calves 517 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 3: the duration of expiration and inhalation is closer to half 518 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 3: a second, but the tidal volume can be as great 519 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 3: as sixty two leaders, and the maximum flow rate is 520 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 3: as great as two hundred and two leaders per second. 521 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 3: Gas flows through the external nares at speeds of forty 522 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 3: four meters per second during inspiration and two hundred meters 523 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: percent second during expiration, and that also he emphasizes how 524 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 3: efficient the breathing process is, saying that, like the breathing 525 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 3: out usually begins before the whale actually even breaks the 526 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 3: surface of the water, so it's like they're coming up 527 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 3: to break the surface, and then before they reach the surface, 528 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 3: the exhale starts, so it blasts, and then that might 529 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: create some of the water you actually see. Another part 530 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 3: of what appears to be water coming out of the 531 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 3: blowhole is the condensing of the of the vapor from 532 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 3: the lungs. But then it's over the surface for just 533 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 3: a little bit of time. It uses that time while 534 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 3: it's out to breathe in suddenly and then it goes 535 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 3: back under. 536 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. In my experiences out there with the gray whales too, 537 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: the Yeah, it's depending on when they're releasing their exhalation. 538 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: If they're releasing it when the blowhole is above or 539 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: mostly above the surface of the water. That creates one 540 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: type of spout. But if they release it underneath the 541 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 2: water by even say, you know, a few inches or more, 542 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: you're going to have even more water coming up. It's 543 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: going to be even more of a of what feels 544 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 2: like a fountain to the face or to the side 545 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: of the boat. 546 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 3: Now, one last thing I wanted to mention about why 547 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 3: whales can stay under so long. Actually first came across 548 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 3: this and just an interesting informational video by a marine 549 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 3: ecologist at the University of New South Wales named Professor 550 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 3: Tracy Rogers, and this was pointing out, in addition to 551 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 3: stuff about the lungs, the capacity of cetaceans to just 552 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 3: store more oxygen in their body tissues. So beyond what 553 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 3: gas the lungs are capable of holding the storage of 554 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 3: oxygen in the hemoglobin and red blood cells. You know, 555 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 3: both humans and whales marine mammals. In terrestrial mammals store 556 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: oxygen in the hemoglobin, but whales have much more hemoglobin 557 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 3: in their blood, which is one reason that their blood 558 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 3: might appear darker red than the blood of terrestrial mammals. 559 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever seen whale blood, but 560 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 3: I feel like I have noticed this before that it 561 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: comes out so dark red it almost looks kind of 562 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: like black or purple. 563 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: I suppose I've seen it in documentaries. 564 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, But also whales simply have more blood relative 565 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 3: to their body size than terrestrial mammals generally do, and 566 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 3: they have more myoglobin in their muscles to store oxygen, 567 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 3: as well as other adaptations that just have to do 568 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 3: with how the body of the whale uses oxygen once 569 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 3: it is submerged, So it has adaptations that can, say, 570 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 3: turn off delivery of oxygen to certain body systems that 571 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 3: are not necessarily being used at the moment while the 572 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 3: whale is deeply submerged. So if it's a deep underwater 573 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 3: hunting and it's not going to come up for a while, 574 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 3: it might sort of reduce oxygen usage of its digestive 575 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 3: system or something like that. 576 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 2: Now we've discussed how the ancestors of whales had frontal 577 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: nostrils at the ends of their snouts before on the show, 578 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 2: and how the nostrils travel up to the top of 579 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 2: the head over the course of their evolution, becoming the blowhole. 580 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 2: We can see evidence of this journey in fossil remains, 581 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 2: and we can also see this movement in their fetal development. 582 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 2: We can watch the blowhole move up the face and head, 583 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: and I believe we mostly discuss the energy efficiency of 584 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 2: a snout breather having to bring the whole head up 585 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 2: as opposed to the top of the head, and Hammond 586 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,760 Speaker 2: at All also point out that this positioning definitely shades 587 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: down the breathing time over the course of evolution. So 588 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: all they have to do, they don't have to bring 589 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 2: the snout up to breathe. All they have to do 590 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 2: is just get the blowhole itself above the surface of 591 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: the water. And like we've been saying in so many changes, 592 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 2: I mean, the whale is a creature that has just 593 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 2: been completely transformed by its journey into and its mastery 594 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 2: of the ocean over the course of its evolution. And 595 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 2: you can there's so many examples of this, but one 596 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 2: that came up is this that they have no facial sinuses, 597 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 2: presumably to avoid complications with diving. Anyone out there if 598 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 2: you're a diver, and you may know that some of 599 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 2: the complications that can occur if you're say clogged your 600 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 2: sinuses are clogged up or something like that. Even if 601 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 2: you're flying, you can sometimes encounter problems with this, and 602 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 2: so this is this is just one problem that the 603 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 2: whale has eliminated through its evolution. Now, coming back to 604 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: the visible spout of the whale, the blow of the whale, 605 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 2: as one would see from a distance that archually blows. 606 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 2: It's it's worth noting that it's this is something that 607 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 2: Mark Carbadine discusses in Hambook of Whales, Dolphins and Porpoises. 608 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 2: The blow or the spout of a whale is very 609 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 2: distinctive with larger whales, and it can be categorized by height, shape, 610 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 2: and visibility. And that's not to say it's easy to do. 611 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 2: There's an art to it. An experienced whale watcher has 612 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 2: to take into account various factors such as wind, rain, 613 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 2: air temperature, light quality, which can all of these can 614 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 2: you distort the shape of the spout or the degree 615 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 2: to which the spout is visible. And also we have 616 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 2: to take into account that the first spout after a 617 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 2: long dive tends to be far stronger, which I think 618 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 2: we can sort of relate to that. I mean, that's 619 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 2: kind of our experience of breathing after holding one's breath 620 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 2: for a period of time. Also, individual whale size is 621 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 2: going to play a role in all this, and also 622 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: behavior of an individual whale will also be a factor. Still, 623 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: if you know what you're doing, you can make out 624 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 2: the species of a great whale, especially at a distance. 625 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 2: To give a few basic examples of note, here and Joe, 626 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: I sent you some snapshot of some of the illustrations 627 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 2: from Carlodine's book to look at in your email. There. 628 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 2: But the gray whale, which we discussed in previous episodes 629 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 2: is known for its heart shaped plume up to five meters. 630 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 2: The sperm whale is also known for its spout. It 631 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 2: has a single blowhole spout off to the side up 632 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 2: to six meters. The blue whale spout is a single 633 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 2: vertical plume of up to twelve meters. Then the North 634 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 2: Atlantic right whale is interesting. Like other right whales, it 635 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 2: has two spouts, one off to either side up to 636 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 2: seven meters. And then with the orca, which of course 637 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 2: we discussed at length in our gray whale series, up 638 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 2: to five meters, bushy at the top and projected slightly forward. 639 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, these illustrations are lovely and they do almost kind 640 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 3: of look like a silhouettes of different tree species that 641 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 3: you would identify like that, you know, oh, that's the 642 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 3: maple and that's the spruce right right. 643 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 2: So any book you have, particular and in particular the 644 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 2: Handbook of Whales, Dolphins and Porposes, Yeah, it has pages 645 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 2: of these where you can compare them. But then also 646 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 2: each species profiled in the book, they have this image 647 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 2: of what it's spout would basically look like. Again, you'd 648 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 2: have to take into account some of these factors though. 649 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 2: All right, Well, on that note, we're going to go 650 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 2: ahead and close out this episode, but we'll be back 651 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,240 Speaker 2: for a part two on all of this. I believe 652 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 2: this will be a two parter, so come back on Thursday. 653 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 2: We have more to discuss more on this whole idea 654 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 2: that the Herman Melville's talking about, that a whale spout 655 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: is going to burn your skin off, poison you, and 656 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 2: blind you. We'll see what some contemporary critics we're saying 657 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 2: about all of that, and we'll get into some other 658 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 2: areas surrounding whale spout. In the meantime, if you would 659 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 2: like to check out other episodes of stuff to blow 660 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 2: your mind, including checking out that multi part series we 661 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 2: did on the Gray Whale and it's travels its relationship 662 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 2: with the Orcas. You can find that in the Stuff 663 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 2: to Blow Your Mind podcast. Feed core episodes on Tuesdays 664 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 2: and Thursdays. On Mondays we do a listener mail, on 665 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 2: Wednesdays we do a short form artifact or monster fact, 666 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 2: and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to 667 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. 668 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway. If you 669 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 3: would like to get in touch with us with feedback 670 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 3: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic 671 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello, you can 672 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 673 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 3: dot com. 674 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 675 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 676 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.