WEBVTT - Elon Musk Talks Tesla Sales Slump, US Politics and Putin Relationship 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:08.160 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news, Elon Musk Welcome to 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:09.880 cut their Economic Forum. How are you? 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:12.559 Thank you for having me? I'm mine, How are you? 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.400 Very well? Thank you and very pleased to have you 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.000 with us. You know among those here in the audience 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.360 in Doha are some you will know people who have 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:24.079 backed to you financially. Over the years since you last 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:26.520 spoke here in twenty twenty two, a lot has changed 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.639 in your life. You're not only running multiple companies. You 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:31.840 were doing that then, but now you also have a 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:33.720 role in government. So, first of all, I hope you 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:35.400 won't mind it. From time to time I have to 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:37.960 move you from one topic to another because we have 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.560 a lot to cover in the time we have. That 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.479 will be all right, Okay, Well, let's start then with 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.360 exactly the fact that you now have this combination of 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.839 being a CEO and having a role as a government advisor. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.240 Tell me about your week. How does it work? What's 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:55.320 the split of your time? 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.680 Well, I travel a lot. So I was in Silicon 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:05.560 Valley yesterday morning. I was in LA yesterday evening. I 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.520 mean Austin right now, I'll be in DC tomorrow. I'll 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.320 be there having dinner with President tomorrow night, I believe, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:18.880 and then a lout of cabinet secrety meetings and then 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.720 back to Slotton Valley on Thursday night. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.440 But I mean, the balance of your time is it Well, 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.600 clearly it's a lot. But is it still the case 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.600 as you said a while ago, that it's about one 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.479 to two days a week on your government work. 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.000 Yeah, that's correct. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:40.160 And what does that mean for your corporate life? Because 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.680 if we start with Tesla, the company has suffered in 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:48.480 recent months what you've called blowback. So what is your 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.440 plan for turning that around? The declining sales picture? And 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.320 by what stage do you think you're going to be 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:56.440 able to turn it around. 0:01:57.640 --> 0:01:58.800 Oh, it's already to turn around. 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.400 Give me some evidence for that. I've just been looking 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.520 at the sales figures for Europe in April, would show 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:09.959 very significant declines in the big markets. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.760 Europe is our weakest market. We're stronger everywhere else. So 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.400 our sales are doing doing well at this point. We 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.280 don't anticipate any any meaningful sales shortfall and. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:27.919 The you know the. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.079 Obviously the stock market recognizes that since we're now back 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.000 over a trillion dollars in marketcap. So really the market 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.240 is aware of the situation, so it's it's already turned around, but. 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.760 Sales still down compared to this time last year. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:43.840 In Europe. 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:45.880 In Europe, okay, and. 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:51.920 Yes, but that's that's true of all manufacturers. There's no exceptions. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:55.680 Does that mean that you're not going to be able? 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:58.399 Does that mean you're quite weak? 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.120 Okay? But you would acknowledge, wouldn't you that what you 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.040 are facing. Okay, let's just take it as your what 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.519 you are facing is a significant problem. This Tesla was 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.720 an incredibly aspirational brand. People identified with it. It saw it, 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:12.920 they saw it it being at the forefront of the 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.120 climate crisis. And now people are driving around with stickers 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.280 in their cars saying I bought this before we knew 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:19.320 Elon was crazy. 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.840 And there are also people who are by buying it 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:28.880 because Elon's crazy, or however they may view it. So, yes, 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.919 we've lost some sales perths on the left, but we've 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.720 gained them on the right. The sales numbers at this 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.800 point are strong and we've seen no problem with them 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.320 had So what I. 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.760 Mean, you can just look at the stock price if 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:44.800 you want the best inside. 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:51.480 Information the stock market analysts have that, and our stock 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:56.000 wouldn't be trading near all time eyes if it was not, 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:58.960 if things weren't in good Jay, They're fine, don't worry 0:03:59.000 --> 0:03:59.320 about it. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.480 Okay, I was citing sales figures rather than share price. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.160 Well tell me then, how committed you are to Tesla? 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.800 Do you see yourself and are you committed to still 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:14.680 being the chief executive of Tesla in five years time? Yes, 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:16.920 no doubt about that at all. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:26.200 Well, no, I might die, Okay, sure to that. Let 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.920 me see you if I'm dead. So does that. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.640 Mean that the value of your pay doesn't have any 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:35.200 bearing on your decision? 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:44.159 Well, that's not really serject discussion in this forum. The 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:50.360 I think, obviously there should be a conversation for if 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.320 there's something incredible is done, that compensation should match. 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.799 That something incredible was done. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:03.200 But I'm confident that so whatever the whatever some activist 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.640 posing as a judge in Delaware happens to do will 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:07.960 not affect the future compensation. 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.600 This is the judge who twice struck down the fifty 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:16.479 six billion dollar pay package that was awarded to you. 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:18.799 I think the value on the basis on the current 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.280 value of stock options. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.240 Yeah, not a judge, not a judge the activist who 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.400 is cars playing a judge in a Halloween costume. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.200 Okay, that's your characterization. I think the value on the 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:33.919 current value of stock options. 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.400 I think the actual justice according to the law, on the. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.560 Current value of stock options. I think the value of 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.520 that pay package stands at about one hundred billion dollars. 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.240 Are you saying you are relaxed about the value of 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.680 your future pay package? Your decision to be committed to 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.640 Tesla for the next five years as long as you 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.880 are still with us on this planet, is completely independent 0:05:55.880 --> 0:06:02.400 of pay. No, it's not independent. So pay is a 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.400 relevant factor then to your commitment to Tesla. 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:11.400 A sufficient voting control such that I cannot be ousted 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.120 by activists investors is what matters to me. And I've 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.159 said this publicly many times, but let's not have this 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.080 whole thing be a discussion of my list pay. It's 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.400 not a money thing. It's a reasonable control thing over 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.680 the future of the company, especially for building millions, potentially 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.120 billions of humanoid robots. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:29.680 I can't be sitting. 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:34.160 There and weren't going to get tossed out by for 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.320 political reasons by activists. That would be unacceptable. That's all 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.200 that matters. Now let's move on. 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:46.000 Okay, Well just one question, well one question before we 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.320 move on to other companies, which is that I wonder 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.200 if some of what you've has happened to Tesla in 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.880 the last few months, did you take it personally? 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:55.840 Yes? 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.240 And did it make you regret any of you all 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:13.160 think twice about your political endeavors, because it is I 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:14.760 did what needed. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:20.840 To be done, Uh, the violent antibody reaction, and I'm 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:25.800 not someone who's ever committed violence, and yet massive violence 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.800 was committed against my company's massive violence was threatened against me. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.200 Who are these people? Why would they do that? How 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:36.960 wrong can they be? 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.600 They're on the wrong, on the wrong side of history, 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:42.960 and that's an evil thing to do, to go and 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:49.040 damage some pointocent person's car, to threaten to kill me. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.960 What's wrong with these people? I have not harmed anyone, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.360 So something needs to be done about them. And a 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.480 number of them are going to prison and they deserve it. 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:09.200 You're well, you're referring to the attacks on Tesla showrooms. 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:13.360 But I think, well, it's into showrooms and burning down 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.600 cars unacceptable. Those people will go to prison, and the 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.120 people that funded them and organized them will also go 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:19.600 to prison. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:29.480 Don't worry, wouldn't you coming you wouldn't you, hm, wouldn't. 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.560 Wouldn't you acknowledge that some of the people who turned 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.960 against Tesla in Europe were were upset at your politics, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.000 and very few of them would have been violent in 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:43.040 any way. They just objected to what they saw you 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:44.400 say or do politically. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.960 Well, it's certainly fine to object to political things, but 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.160 it's not it's not fine to resort to violence and 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:57.560 hanging someone in effigy and death threats. That's obviously not okay. Uh, 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:00.240 you know that's sir. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.880 That is in no way justifiable at all. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.480 In any way, shape or form, And some of the 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.520 legacy media and nonethless have sort of justified, which is unconscionable. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:13.440 Shame on them. 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.680 Let's talk about your other companies then, in other business area, SpaceX. 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:19.640 I saw that you said in a speech at the 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:24.240 West Point Military Academy recently that the future of warfare 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.280 is AI and drones, and obviously defense is an increasingly 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.720 booming sector with the state of the world at the moment, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:42.079 do you see SpaceX moving into weaponized drones? 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.400 You certainly ask interesting questions that are impossible to answer. 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:56.880 So SpaceX is is the space launch leader. 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:58.520 So SpaceX doesn't do drones. 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:08.200 SpaceX world's rockets, satellites, and Internet terminals. So SpaceX has 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:12.160 a a very dominant position in space launch. So of 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.079 the mass launch to orbit this year, SpaceX will probably 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:18.480 do nine. 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:21.800 China will do the. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.000 Remain half of the remaining amounts of five percent, and 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:26.480 the rest of the world, including the rest of the US, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:28.840 will do about five percent. So SpaceX will do about 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.600 ten times as much as the rest of world combined, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.480 or twenty times as much as China, which is in 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.679 China is doing actually a very impressive job. The reason 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.280 for this is that we're putting it into orbit the 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.160 largest satellite constellation the world has ever seen by far, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:46.920 so I think at this point about maybe approaching eighty 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.600 percent of all active satellites in orbit are SpaceX and 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:55.120 they're providing GLOGH high votwordth global connectivity throughout the world. 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.360 In fact, this connection is on a SpaceX connection, so 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.640 very good thing because it means that we can provide 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.680 low cost my bandwidth Internet to parts of the world 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.400 that don't have it or it's very expensive. And I 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.720 think the single biggest thing you can do to lift 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.160 people out of poverty and help them is giving them 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.560 an Internet connection, because once you have the Internet connection, 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.240 you can learn anything for free on the Internet, and 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.600 you can also sell your goods and services to the 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:30.520 global market. And once you have knowledge by the Internet 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:35.400 and the ability to engage in commerce, that this is 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.040 going to greatly improve quality of life for people throughout 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.319 the world. And it has. And I'd just like to 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.440 think anyone in the audience who may have been helpful 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:49.320 in you know, with starlink and getting it to approved 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:50.880 in their country, and I think it's doing a lot 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.600 of good in the countries that have approved it, which 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.760 is I think this point one hundred and thirty countries. 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:55.800 Are very happy with it. 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.480 I don't currently in space likely getting into the weapons business, 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.080 that's certainly it's not an aspiration. We're freaquing. We're frequently 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.280 asked to do to do weapons programs, but we have 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:08.079 done by a client. 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:14.480 Do you envisage SpaceX or Indeed, starlink is a separate 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.920 entity publicly listing in the near future or at all. 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.560 It's possible that starlink may go public at some point 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:26.839 in the future. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.959 And what would be the what would be the time frame, 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:33.559 what kind of time frame you consider it? 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.280 I mean no rush, no, I mean no rush to 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.800 your public. The public is I guess a way to 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.160 you know, potentially make more money, but at the expense 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.840 of a lot of public company overhead and inevitably. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:51.960 A whole much of lawsuits, which are very annoying. 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:54.600 So there's really something needs to be done about the 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:59.160 share shareholder shareholder derovative lawsuits in the US because it 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:05.760 allows plaintiffs law firms who don't represent the shareholders to 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.600 pretend that they represent the shareholders by getting a puppet 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.000 plainter for a few shares to initiate a massive lawsuit 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.880 against the company, and the irony being that extreme irony 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.920 that even if the class they purport to represent were 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.600 to vote that they don't want the lawsuit, the lawsuit 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:23.679 will still continue. 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:25.960 So how can it be a. 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.800 Class action representing a class if the class worked against it. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.600 And that's the bizarre situation we've got in the US 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:37.120 that needs a diary to reform. As anyone's running public company, 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.200 you've experienced this, it's an absurd situation that needs to change. 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.080 Well, do you think Donald Trump might change it. You've 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.800 certainly got his ear. I imagine that you've put this to him. 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.640 Is this something you're trying to change before any starlink IPO. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:58.400 Well, we need a law to be passed. The trouble 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:03.160 being that you need extent Senate votes and the Democrats 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:10.880 will vote against it. The plaintiff's bar is I believe, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.520 the second largest contributor to the Democratic Party. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:16.800 That's that's the issue. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.680 At the state level, this can be solved, and I 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:25.080 should say Texas recently passed a law which at least 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.960 the state level made it is much more reasonable because 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.600 you have to get at least one in thirty three 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.640 shareholders to agree that they are part of a class 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.040 of shareholders three percent. 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.600 This will be really helped with frivolous lawsuits. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.920 Let's talk about AI, which is in so many of 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.400 your businesses and in all our worlds in different ways. 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.520 It's one of the big changes the development of generative AI. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.120 Since you last spoke to this forum three years ago, 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.000 you're in this space of course with GROP which almost 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.440 everyone will know. You co founded open ai and then left, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.360 and you've obviously got a legal battle with open ai 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.680 and Sam Altman. I wonder if you could say something 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.800 about the status of that, because you were together in 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.720 Saudi Arabia with the president last week with Sam Oldman 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.040 in the same place at the same time in the neighborhood. 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.280 So does that mean you are pushing ahead with the 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:29.800 lawsuit against open AI. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:36.520 Yes. So I came up with the name open AI 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.720 as an open source and as a nonprofit, and I 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:46.400 founded AI opening I for the first roughly fifty million dollars, 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:51.560 and it was intended to be a nonprofit open source company, 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.240 and now is they're trying to change that for their 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:58.960 own financial benefit into a for profit company that is 0:15:59.040 --> 0:15:59.680 closed source. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.000 So this would be like, let's. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.880 Say you you find it a nonprofit to help preserve 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.400 the Amazon rainforest, but instead of doing that, they became 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.760 a lumber company, chopped down the forest and sold the word. 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.000 You'd be like, wait a second, that's not what I 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.560 found it. That's opening Eye. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.640 They've made some changes to their corporate instructure, though, haven't 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.640 they since in recognition of of what you've. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.600 Said, and now that's just what they told the media. 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:35.600 Okay, part they have part they have partly walked back 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.520 their plan to restructure the business. I guess that's made 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.320 no difference to how you feel about it. So you 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:42.960 determined to see them in court. 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:44.680 Of course. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.960 Okay, well that's certainly going to be one to watch. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.520 I also wanted to ask you about AI and regulation 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.040 because when you were here last talking to John Mickelfwait, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.560 you had some pretty strong words about the risk that 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.560 AI poses, and you said that you really felt what 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.199 the US was missing was a federal AI regulator, that 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:07.800 you know, something along lines of the Food and Drug 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.720 Administration or the Federal Aviation Administration. Now you're clearly now 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.719 in a zone where you're more you're more on the 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.439 cutting regulation side than wanting new regulators. So has your 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:20.879 view changed on the need for an AI regulator? 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.800 Well, so that I don't think there should be regulators. 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:27.879 You can think of regulators like referees on the on 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.960 the field in sports, there should be some number of referees, 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.000 but that you shouldn't have so many referees that you 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:35.040 can't kick the ball. 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.960 Without hitting one. So in many in most. 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.960 Fields in the US, the regulatory burden has grown over 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.560 time to the point where it's like having more referees 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:53.399 than players on the field. So, and this is a 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.960 natural consequence of an extended period of prosperity. 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.920 It's very important to appropriate I appreciate this. 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.600 This has happened throughout his When you have an extended 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:06.800 period of prosperity with no existential war, there's no cleansing 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:13.320 function for the for unnecessary laws and regulations. So what 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.080 happens is that every year more laws and more regulations 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.440 are pasted, because you know, legislators are going to legislate, 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.720 regulators are going to regulate, and you will get the 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.480 steady pile of more and more laws and regulations of 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.959 a time until everything is illegal. And let me give 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.720 you an example of a truly absurd situation. Under the 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:43.560 Biden administration, SpaceX was sued for not hiring asylum seekers 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.520 in the US. Now, the problem is, it's actually illegal 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.560 for SpaceX under itar in National Traffic and Arms regulations 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.520 to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident of 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.560 the United States, because the premise being that they will 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.480 take advanced rocket technology and return to their country if 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:01.600 they're not a permanent resident. 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.440 So we're simultaneously. 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.680 In a situation where it's illegal to hire slams US 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:13.000 and is also illegal to hire asylum seekers and the 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.000 violence Partner of Justice chose to prosecute us despite both 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:18.160 paths being illegal. 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:20.280 Down if you do, down if you don't. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.000 But my question was specifically about a regulator for AI, 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.280 which you said three years ago was needed, and you 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.320 said we need to be proactive on the regulation of 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.760 AI rather than reactive. Have you changed your mind on that? 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:35.320 No, of course not. 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.240 What no, of course not. 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.040 What I'm saying is that there should be some referees 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.600 on the field, a few referees, but you shouldn't have 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.400 a field jam packed with referees such that you could 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.639 not kick a ball in any direction without hitting one. 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.000 So the fields that have been around for a long time, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:20:00.240 such as automotive, so aerospace, you know, the sort of 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:05.600 food and drug industries are overregulated, but the new fields 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.800 like artificial intelligence are underregulated. 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:10.879 In fact, there is no regulator at. 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:11.800 All, so they should be. 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.960 Do you still think that, Yes, I'm simply saying, which 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.520 I think is just basic common sense, that you that 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.720 you want to have at least you want to have 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.480 a few referees in the field. You don't want to 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.120 have an army of referees, but you want to have 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.359 a few referees on any given field, in any given sport, 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.520 or even any given arena industrial arena. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:37.040 To ensure help that public safety is taken care of. 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.880 But you don't have so there's a there's a there's 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.080 a proper number of referees. Like I said, it's actually 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.119 very easy to visualize this when compared to sports. If 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.760 the whole field is packed with referees, that would look absurd. 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.120 But if there were no referees at all, your game 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:55.080 is not going to be as good. 0:20:56.119 --> 0:21:00.159 Okay, So let's then talk about your new world to 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.200 your role advising government. You are in this unique and 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:09.040 unprecedented position of having billions of dollars worth of contracts 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.680 with the federal government yourself, mostly through SpaceX, and also 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.600 now an insiders knowledge of it because of dose. Can 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.960 you see that there is a conflict of interest or 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:23.760 a potential conflict of interest in broad terms just through 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:24.560 that very fact? 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:27.920 I don't think so. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.560 Actually, there have been many advisors throughout history and the 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.760 US government and others who have had economic interests, And 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:38.760 I absolutely an advisor. 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:42.399 I don't have a formal power, and. 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:46.399 That's a president can choose to accept my advice or not, 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.480 and that's how it goes. If there's a single contract 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.880 that of my companies that have received that people think 0:21:54.040 --> 0:22:00.240 is somehow not was awarded improperly, it would immediately be 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:05.359 front page news, to say the least. And if I 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:07.960 hadn't mentioned it, certainly my competitors would. So if you're 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.480 not seeing that, then the clear is not a conflict 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.960 to interest the Yeah. 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:15.840 There's another way though to look at it. 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:15.960 That. 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.840 For example, you have many competitors, whether it's companies like 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.200 Boeing or companies you would like to do more of 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.320 the kind of work you do for NASA Blue Origin 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:30.680 Rocket Lab. And because DOGE is in every federal government department, 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.840 you or people who work for DOGE and you are 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:40.560 the driving force behind it, have an insight into those companies' 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.720 affairs and those companies' relationships with the federal government. 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:50.720 Now, all we do is we review the organization to 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:56.040 see if the organization has departments that are no longer 0:22:56.080 --> 0:23:02.080 relevant and other contracts that are being awarded good value 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:04.800 for money. In fact, frankly, the bar is not particularly high. 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.679 Is there any value of money in a contract and 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:10.719 if there's if there isn't, then we make recommendations to 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.600 the secretary. The Secretary can then choose to take those 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:16.959 actions or not take those actions, and that's it. 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.359 And then any action that that is as. 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:22.760 A function of DOGE is posted to the DOGE website 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.000 and to the DOGE dog Govt at DOGE handle on 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:31.680 the x platform. So it's it's complete transparency. And I've 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:36.480 not seen any case where the best min has even 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:40.240 been an accusation of conflict because it is completely and 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:41.119 utterly transparent. 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:43.160 That's it. 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:47.040 And what about the international dimension. Now, let's think about Starlin. 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.600 Starlink is obviously a very very good internet service. It's 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.280 sought after all over the world. It's critical to the 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:57.879