1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news, Elon Musk Welcome to 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: cut their Economic Forum. How are you? 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me? I'm mine, How are you? 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: Very well? Thank you and very pleased to have you 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: with us. You know among those here in the audience 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: in Doha are some you will know people who have 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: backed to you financially. Over the years since you last 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: spoke here in twenty twenty two, a lot has changed 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: in your life. You're not only running multiple companies. You 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: were doing that then, but now you also have a 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: role in government. So, first of all, I hope you 12 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: won't mind it. From time to time I have to 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: move you from one topic to another because we have 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: a lot to cover in the time we have. That 15 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: will be all right, Okay, Well, let's start then with 16 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: exactly the fact that you now have this combination of 17 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: being a CEO and having a role as a government advisor. 18 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Tell me about your week. How does it work? What's 19 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: the split of your time? 20 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 3: Well, I travel a lot. So I was in Silicon 21 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 3: Valley yesterday morning. I was in LA yesterday evening. I 22 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 3: mean Austin right now, I'll be in DC tomorrow. I'll 23 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 3: be there having dinner with President tomorrow night, I believe, 24 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: and then a lout of cabinet secrety meetings and then 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 3: back to Slotton Valley on Thursday night. 26 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: But I mean, the balance of your time is it Well, 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: clearly it's a lot. But is it still the case 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: as you said a while ago, that it's about one 29 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: to two days a week on your government work. 30 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct. 31 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: And what does that mean for your corporate life? Because 32 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: if we start with Tesla, the company has suffered in 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: recent months what you've called blowback. So what is your 34 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: plan for turning that around? The declining sales picture? And 35 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: by what stage do you think you're going to be 36 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: able to turn it around. 37 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: Oh, it's already to turn around. 38 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: Give me some evidence for that. I've just been looking 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: at the sales figures for Europe in April, would show 40 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: very significant declines in the big markets. 41 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: Europe is our weakest market. We're stronger everywhere else. So 42 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: our sales are doing doing well at this point. We 43 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: don't anticipate any any meaningful sales shortfall and. 44 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: The you know the. 45 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 3: Obviously the stock market recognizes that since we're now back 46 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 3: over a trillion dollars in marketcap. So really the market 47 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 3: is aware of the situation, so it's it's already turned around, but. 48 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: Sales still down compared to this time last year. 49 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: In Europe. 50 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: In Europe, okay, and. 51 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 3: Yes, but that's that's true of all manufacturers. There's no exceptions. 52 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: Does that mean that you're not going to be able? 53 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 2: Does that mean you're quite weak? 54 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: Okay? But you would acknowledge, wouldn't you that what you 55 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: are facing. Okay, let's just take it as your what 56 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: you are facing is a significant problem. This Tesla was 57 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: an incredibly aspirational brand. People identified with it. It saw it, 58 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: they saw it it being at the forefront of the 59 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: climate crisis. And now people are driving around with stickers 60 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: in their cars saying I bought this before we knew 61 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: Elon was crazy. 62 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: And there are also people who are by buying it 63 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: because Elon's crazy, or however they may view it. So, yes, 64 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: we've lost some sales perths on the left, but we've 65 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 3: gained them on the right. The sales numbers at this 66 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: point are strong and we've seen no problem with them 67 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: had So what I. 68 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: Mean, you can just look at the stock price if 69 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: you want the best inside. 70 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: Information the stock market analysts have that, and our stock 71 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: wouldn't be trading near all time eyes if it was not, 72 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: if things weren't in good Jay, They're fine, don't worry 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: about it. 74 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: Okay, I was citing sales figures rather than share price. 75 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: Well tell me then, how committed you are to Tesla? 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: Do you see yourself and are you committed to still 77 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: being the chief executive of Tesla in five years time? Yes, 78 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: no doubt about that at all. 79 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: Well, no, I might die, Okay, sure to that. Let 80 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: me see you if I'm dead. So does that. 81 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: Mean that the value of your pay doesn't have any 82 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: bearing on your decision? 83 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 3: Well, that's not really serject discussion in this forum. The 84 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 3: I think, obviously there should be a conversation for if 85 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: there's something incredible is done, that compensation should match. 86 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 2: That something incredible was done. 87 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 3: But I'm confident that so whatever the whatever some activist 88 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: posing as a judge in Delaware happens to do will 89 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: not affect the future compensation. 90 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: This is the judge who twice struck down the fifty 91 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: six billion dollar pay package that was awarded to you. 92 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 1: I think the value on the basis on the current 93 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: value of stock options. 94 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, not a judge, not a judge the activist who 95 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 3: is cars playing a judge in a Halloween costume. 96 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: Okay, that's your characterization. I think the value on the 97 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: current value of stock options. 98 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: I think the actual justice according to the law, on the. 99 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: Current value of stock options. I think the value of 100 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: that pay package stands at about one hundred billion dollars. 101 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: Are you saying you are relaxed about the value of 102 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: your future pay package? Your decision to be committed to 103 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: Tesla for the next five years as long as you 104 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: are still with us on this planet, is completely independent 105 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: of pay. No, it's not independent. So pay is a 106 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: relevant factor then to your commitment to Tesla. 107 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: A sufficient voting control such that I cannot be ousted 108 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: by activists investors is what matters to me. And I've 109 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 3: said this publicly many times, but let's not have this 110 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: whole thing be a discussion of my list pay. It's 111 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 3: not a money thing. It's a reasonable control thing over 112 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 3: the future of the company, especially for building millions, potentially 113 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: billions of humanoid robots. 114 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 2: I can't be sitting. 115 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 3: There and weren't going to get tossed out by for 116 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: political reasons by activists. That would be unacceptable. That's all 117 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: that matters. Now let's move on. 118 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: Okay, Well just one question, well one question before we 119 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: move on to other companies, which is that I wonder 120 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: if some of what you've has happened to Tesla in 121 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: the last few months, did you take it personally? 122 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 2: Yes? 123 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: And did it make you regret any of you all 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: think twice about your political endeavors, because it is I 125 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: did what needed. 126 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: To be done, Uh, the violent antibody reaction, and I'm 127 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: not someone who's ever committed violence, and yet massive violence 128 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 3: was committed against my company's massive violence was threatened against me. 129 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: Who are these people? Why would they do that? How 130 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: wrong can they be? 131 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 3: They're on the wrong, on the wrong side of history, 132 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 3: and that's an evil thing to do, to go and 133 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 3: damage some pointocent person's car, to threaten to kill me. 134 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: What's wrong with these people? I have not harmed anyone, 135 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: So something needs to be done about them. And a 136 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: number of them are going to prison and they deserve it. 137 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: You're well, you're referring to the attacks on Tesla showrooms. 138 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 3: But I think, well, it's into showrooms and burning down 139 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: cars unacceptable. Those people will go to prison, and the 140 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: people that funded them and organized them will also go 141 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 3: to prison. 142 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: Don't worry, wouldn't you coming you wouldn't you, hm, wouldn't. 143 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: Wouldn't you acknowledge that some of the people who turned 144 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: against Tesla in Europe were were upset at your politics, 145 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: and very few of them would have been violent in 146 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: any way. They just objected to what they saw you 147 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: say or do politically. 148 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: Well, it's certainly fine to object to political things, but 149 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: it's not it's not fine to resort to violence and 150 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 3: hanging someone in effigy and death threats. That's obviously not okay. Uh, 151 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 3: you know that's sir. 152 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: That is in no way justifiable at all. 153 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 3: In any way, shape or form, And some of the 154 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: legacy media and nonethless have sort of justified, which is unconscionable. 155 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: Shame on them. 156 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: Let's talk about your other companies then, in other business area, SpaceX. 157 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: I saw that you said in a speech at the 158 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: West Point Military Academy recently that the future of warfare 159 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: is AI and drones, and obviously defense is an increasingly 160 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: booming sector with the state of the world at the moment, 161 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: do you see SpaceX moving into weaponized drones? 162 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 3: You certainly ask interesting questions that are impossible to answer. 163 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 3: So SpaceX is is the space launch leader. 164 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: So SpaceX doesn't do drones. 165 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 3: SpaceX world's rockets, satellites, and Internet terminals. So SpaceX has 166 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: a a very dominant position in space launch. So of 167 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 3: the mass launch to orbit this year, SpaceX will probably 168 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 3: do nine. 169 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: China will do the. 170 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: Remain half of the remaining amounts of five percent, and 171 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: the rest of the world, including the rest of the US, 172 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 3: will do about five percent. So SpaceX will do about 173 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: ten times as much as the rest of world combined, 174 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 3: or twenty times as much as China, which is in 175 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 3: China is doing actually a very impressive job. The reason 176 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: for this is that we're putting it into orbit the 177 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 3: largest satellite constellation the world has ever seen by far, 178 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 3: so I think at this point about maybe approaching eighty 179 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 3: percent of all active satellites in orbit are SpaceX and 180 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: they're providing GLOGH high votwordth global connectivity throughout the world. 181 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: In fact, this connection is on a SpaceX connection, so 182 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 3: very good thing because it means that we can provide 183 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 3: low cost my bandwidth Internet to parts of the world 184 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 3: that don't have it or it's very expensive. And I 185 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 3: think the single biggest thing you can do to lift 186 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 3: people out of poverty and help them is giving them 187 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: an Internet connection, because once you have the Internet connection, 188 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 3: you can learn anything for free on the Internet, and 189 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 3: you can also sell your goods and services to the 190 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: global market. And once you have knowledge by the Internet 191 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: and the ability to engage in commerce, that this is 192 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: going to greatly improve quality of life for people throughout 193 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 3: the world. And it has. And I'd just like to 194 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 3: think anyone in the audience who may have been helpful 195 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 3: in you know, with starlink and getting it to approved 196 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: in their country, and I think it's doing a lot 197 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 3: of good in the countries that have approved it, which 198 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: is I think this point one hundred and thirty countries. 199 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: Are very happy with it. 200 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 3: I don't currently in space likely getting into the weapons business, 201 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 3: that's certainly it's not an aspiration. We're freaquing. We're frequently 202 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: asked to do to do weapons programs, but we have 203 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 3: done by a client. 204 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: Do you envisage SpaceX or Indeed, starlink is a separate 205 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: entity publicly listing in the near future or at all. 206 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 3: It's possible that starlink may go public at some point 207 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 3: in the future. 208 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: And what would be the what would be the time frame, 209 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: what kind of time frame you consider it? 210 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 3: I mean no rush, no, I mean no rush to 211 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: your public. The public is I guess a way to 212 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 3: you know, potentially make more money, but at the expense 213 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 3: of a lot of public company overhead and inevitably. 214 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: A whole much of lawsuits, which are very annoying. 215 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: So there's really something needs to be done about the 216 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 3: share shareholder shareholder derovative lawsuits in the US because it 217 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 3: allows plaintiffs law firms who don't represent the shareholders to 218 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: pretend that they represent the shareholders by getting a puppet 219 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 3: plainter for a few shares to initiate a massive lawsuit 220 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: against the company, and the irony being that extreme irony 221 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 3: that even if the class they purport to represent were 222 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 3: to vote that they don't want the lawsuit, the lawsuit 223 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 3: will still continue. 224 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 2: So how can it be a. 225 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: Class action representing a class if the class worked against it. 226 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 3: And that's the bizarre situation we've got in the US 227 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: that needs a diary to reform. As anyone's running public company, 228 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 3: you've experienced this, it's an absurd situation that needs to change. 229 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: Well, do you think Donald Trump might change it. You've 230 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: certainly got his ear. I imagine that you've put this to him. 231 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: Is this something you're trying to change before any starlink IPO. 232 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: Well, we need a law to be passed. The trouble 233 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 3: being that you need extent Senate votes and the Democrats 234 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 3: will vote against it. The plaintiff's bar is I believe, 235 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 3: the second largest contributor to the Democratic Party. 236 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 2: That's that's the issue. 237 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 3: At the state level, this can be solved, and I 238 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 3: should say Texas recently passed a law which at least 239 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 3: the state level made it is much more reasonable because 240 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: you have to get at least one in thirty three 241 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 3: shareholders to agree that they are part of a class 242 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 3: of shareholders three percent. 243 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: This will be really helped with frivolous lawsuits. 244 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: Let's talk about AI, which is in so many of 245 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: your businesses and in all our worlds in different ways. 246 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: It's one of the big changes the development of generative AI. 247 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: Since you last spoke to this forum three years ago, 248 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: you're in this space of course with GROP which almost 249 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: everyone will know. You co founded open ai and then left, 250 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: and you've obviously got a legal battle with open ai 251 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: and Sam Altman. I wonder if you could say something 252 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: about the status of that, because you were together in 253 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia with the president last week with Sam Oldman 254 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: in the same place at the same time in the neighborhood. 255 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: So does that mean you are pushing ahead with the 256 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: lawsuit against open AI. 257 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 3: Yes. So I came up with the name open AI 258 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 3: as an open source and as a nonprofit, and I 259 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 3: founded AI opening I for the first roughly fifty million dollars, 260 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: and it was intended to be a nonprofit open source company, 261 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: and now is they're trying to change that for their 262 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: own financial benefit into a for profit company that is 263 00:15:59,040 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: closed source. 264 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: So this would be like, let's. 265 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 3: Say you you find it a nonprofit to help preserve 266 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 3: the Amazon rainforest, but instead of doing that, they became 267 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 3: a lumber company, chopped down the forest and sold the word. 268 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: You'd be like, wait a second, that's not what I 269 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: found it. That's opening Eye. 270 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: They've made some changes to their corporate instructure, though, haven't 271 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: they since in recognition of of what you've. 272 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: Said, and now that's just what they told the media. 273 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: Okay, part they have part they have partly walked back 274 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: their plan to restructure the business. I guess that's made 275 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: no difference to how you feel about it. So you 276 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: determined to see them in court. 277 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 3: Of course. 278 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: Okay, well that's certainly going to be one to watch. 279 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: I also wanted to ask you about AI and regulation 280 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: because when you were here last talking to John Mickelfwait, 281 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: you had some pretty strong words about the risk that 282 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: AI poses, and you said that you really felt what 283 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: the US was missing was a federal AI regulator, that 284 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, something along lines of the Food and Drug 285 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: Administration or the Federal Aviation Administration. Now you're clearly now 286 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 1: in a zone where you're more you're more on the 287 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: cutting regulation side than wanting new regulators. So has your 288 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: view changed on the need for an AI regulator? 289 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: Well, so that I don't think there should be regulators. 290 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 3: You can think of regulators like referees on the on 291 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 3: the field in sports, there should be some number of referees, 292 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 3: but that you shouldn't have so many referees that you 293 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 3: can't kick the ball. 294 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 2: Without hitting one. So in many in most. 295 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 3: Fields in the US, the regulatory burden has grown over 296 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: time to the point where it's like having more referees 297 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 3: than players on the field. So, and this is a 298 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 3: natural consequence of an extended period of prosperity. 299 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: It's very important to appropriate I appreciate this. 300 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: This has happened throughout his When you have an extended 301 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: period of prosperity with no existential war, there's no cleansing 302 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: function for the for unnecessary laws and regulations. So what 303 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 3: happens is that every year more laws and more regulations 304 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 3: are pasted, because you know, legislators are going to legislate, 305 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 3: regulators are going to regulate, and you will get the 306 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 3: steady pile of more and more laws and regulations of 307 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 3: a time until everything is illegal. And let me give 308 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 3: you an example of a truly absurd situation. Under the 309 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: Biden administration, SpaceX was sued for not hiring asylum seekers 310 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: in the US. Now, the problem is, it's actually illegal 311 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: for SpaceX under itar in National Traffic and Arms regulations 312 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident of 313 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 3: the United States, because the premise being that they will 314 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 3: take advanced rocket technology and return to their country if 315 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 3: they're not a permanent resident. 316 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 2: So we're simultaneously. 317 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 3: In a situation where it's illegal to hire slams US 318 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: and is also illegal to hire asylum seekers and the 319 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 3: violence Partner of Justice chose to prosecute us despite both 320 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 3: paths being illegal. 321 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 2: Down if you do, down if you don't. 322 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: But my question was specifically about a regulator for AI, 323 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: which you said three years ago was needed, and you 324 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: said we need to be proactive on the regulation of 325 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: AI rather than reactive. Have you changed your mind on that? 326 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 3: No, of course not. 327 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: What no, of course not. 328 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 3: What I'm saying is that there should be some referees 329 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 3: on the field, a few referees, but you shouldn't have 330 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 3: a field jam packed with referees such that you could 331 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 3: not kick a ball in any direction without hitting one. 332 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 3: So the fields that have been around for a long time, 333 00:19:53,440 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 3: such as automotive, so aerospace, you know, the sort of 334 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: food and drug industries are overregulated, but the new fields 335 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: like artificial intelligence are underregulated. 336 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: In fact, there is no regulator at. 337 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: All, so they should be. 338 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 3: Do you still think that, Yes, I'm simply saying, which 339 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 3: I think is just basic common sense, that you that 340 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 3: you want to have at least you want to have 341 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 3: a few referees in the field. You don't want to 342 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 3: have an army of referees, but you want to have 343 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 3: a few referees on any given field, in any given sport, 344 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: or even any given arena industrial arena. 345 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 2: To ensure help that public safety is taken care of. 346 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 3: But you don't have so there's a there's a there's 347 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: a proper number of referees. Like I said, it's actually 348 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 3: very easy to visualize this when compared to sports. If 349 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 3: the whole field is packed with referees, that would look absurd. 350 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 3: But if there were no referees at all, your game 351 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: is not going to be as good. 352 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's then talk about your new world to 353 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: your role advising government. You are in this unique and 354 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: unprecedented position of having billions of dollars worth of contracts 355 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: with the federal government yourself, mostly through SpaceX, and also 356 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: now an insiders knowledge of it because of dose. Can 357 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: you see that there is a conflict of interest or 358 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: a potential conflict of interest in broad terms just through 359 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: that very fact? 360 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 361 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 3: Actually, there have been many advisors throughout history and the 362 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 3: US government and others who have had economic interests, And 363 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: I absolutely an advisor. 364 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 2: I don't have a formal power, and. 365 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 3: That's a president can choose to accept my advice or not, 366 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 3: and that's how it goes. If there's a single contract 367 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 3: that of my companies that have received that people think 368 00:21:54,040 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: is somehow not was awarded improperly, it would immediately be 369 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: front page news, to say the least. And if I 370 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: hadn't mentioned it, certainly my competitors would. So if you're 371 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 3: not seeing that, then the clear is not a conflict 372 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 3: to interest the Yeah. 373 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: There's another way though to look at it. 374 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 3: That. 375 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: For example, you have many competitors, whether it's companies like 376 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: Boeing or companies you would like to do more of 377 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: the kind of work you do for NASA Blue Origin 378 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: Rocket Lab. And because DOGE is in every federal government department, 379 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: you or people who work for DOGE and you are 380 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: the driving force behind it, have an insight into those companies' 381 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: affairs and those companies' relationships with the federal government. 382 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 3: Now, all we do is we review the organization to 383 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: see if the organization has departments that are no longer 384 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 3: relevant and other contracts that are being awarded good value 385 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 3: for money. In fact, frankly, the bar is not particularly high. 386 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 3: Is there any value of money in a contract and 387 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,719 Speaker 3: if there's if there isn't, then we make recommendations to 388 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 3: the secretary. The Secretary can then choose to take those 389 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 3: actions or not take those actions, and that's it. 390 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: And then any action that that is as. 391 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 3: A function of DOGE is posted to the DOGE website 392 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 3: and to the DOGE dog Govt at DOGE handle on 393 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 3: the x platform. So it's it's complete transparency. And I've 394 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: not seen any case where the best min has even 395 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 3: been an accusation of conflict because it is completely and 396 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 3: utterly transparent. 397 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 2: That's it. 398 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: And what about the international dimension. Now, let's think about Starlin. 399 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: Starlink is obviously a very very good internet service. It's 400 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: sought after all over the world. It's critical to the 401 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: frontline in Ukraine. It has also had more contracts coming 402 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: its way, and there is some evidence that companies are 403 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: allowing access to it because they want to be close 404 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: to the Trump administration and send the right signal. So 405 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: Bloomberg broke news today that the South African government is 406 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: working around the rules on black ownership in order to 407 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: allow starlinkin and that is being done on the eve 408 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: of the visit the President Ramaposa is going to make 409 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: to the White House. Do you recognize that as a 410 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: conflict of interest? 411 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: Now, of course not. 412 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,959 Speaker 3: First of all, you should be questioning why is there 413 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 3: why the racist laws in South Africa. That's the first problem. 414 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: That's what you should be attacking. It's improper for they 415 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 3: be racist laws in South Africa. The whole idea with 416 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 3: what Nelson Mandela, who is a great man, proposed, was 417 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 3: that or racs should be on an equal footing in 418 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 3: South Africa. That's the right thing to do, not to 419 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 3: replace one set of racist laws with another set of 420 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 3: racist laws, which is utterly wrong and improper. 421 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: So that's the deal, that all races. 422 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 3: Should be treated equally and there should be no preference 423 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 3: given to one or the other, whereas there are. 424 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 2: Now one hundred and forty laws in South Africa that give. 425 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: That basically give strong preface to you if you're black 426 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 3: South African and not otherwise. And so now I'm in 427 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: the subsurd situation where I was born in South Africa 428 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 3: but cannot get a license to outgrates in starlink because 429 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: I'm not black. 430 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: Well, it looks like that's about it looks looks like 431 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: that looks like that's about to change. 432 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 3: I just asked you a question, please answer, Does that 433 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 3: seem right to you. 434 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: Well, those rules were designed to bring Those rules were 435 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: designed to bring about an era of more economic equality 436 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: in South Africa, and it looks like the government has 437 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: found a way around those rules for you. 438 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 2: Ask your question? 439 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: Is this is your interview. Everyone wants to hear from you. 440 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 2: Your question yes or no? 441 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: Not for me to answer. I have got a question 442 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: for you about about your government works and the amount 443 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: of savings. 444 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 2: Why do you like racist laws? 445 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 1: This is not for me to answer. Come on now, 446 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be trying to dodge a question. 447 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 2: Do you have to answer this question? Question? Answer? No, 448 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: you answer mine. 449 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: I say, I think if you I'm sure you can 450 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: have that conversation directly with the South African government if 451 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: you want to. I want to ask you. 452 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 2: About the total believe it, that's not good. 453 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the total allown risks. 454 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the total amount that 455 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: you're planning to save through Doge's work. Before the election, 456 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: you said it was going to be at least two trillion. 457 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: The number currently on doze dog gov is one hundred 458 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: and seventy billion dollars. That's a big change. What happened 459 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: to the two trillion. 460 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: Or do you expect it to happen immediately? 461 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: Well, is it going to happen because dose is supposed 462 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: to run till next July. 463 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: I mean, your question is absurd in this fundamental premise. 464 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 3: Are you assuming that that on day you know, within 465 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 3: a few months this instant two trillion saved? 466 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: No, I'm not all I'm just asking you, is that 467 00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: still your aim? 468 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 3: Thought willing to get the amount of time? Have we 469 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 3: not made good progress given the amount of time? 470 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm asking. So, is it's still your 471 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: aim to go from one hundred and seventy billion to 472 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: two trillion? 473 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: The ability of those to operate is this. 474 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 3: Function of whether the government and this includes the Congress, 475 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 3: is willing to take our advice. We're not the dictators 476 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 3: of the government. 477 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 2: We are the. 478 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 3: Advisors, and so we can advise. And the progress who've 479 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 3: made thus far I think is incredible. Those team has 480 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 3: done incredible work. But the magnitude of the savings is 481 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 3: proportionate to the support we get from Congress and from 482 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 3: the executive branch of the government in general. 483 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: So we're not the dictators. We are the advisors. 484 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 3: But thus far, for advisors, we two team to their 485 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 3: credit has made incredible progress. 486 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: You've talked about four billion dollars a day being saved, 487 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: but that that won't get which is an I think 488 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: everyone can agree that combating waste and inefficiency in government 489 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: is a very good thing. But if you add that up, 490 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: it's not going to get to two trillion over the 491 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: lifetime of DOUGH. I'm sorry, the four billion, the four 492 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: billion a day, if dose is going to run till 493 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: next July, is not going to get you to two 494 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: trillion dollars. But you still say it's your aim, so 495 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: we'll take that as read. 496 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 2: There's there's, there's there's what dog I mean, I fail. 497 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: You're somewhat trapped. 498 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 3: In the NPC dialogue. 499 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: Tree of a traditional work journalist. 500 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: So it's difficult when when I'm conversing with someone who's 501 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 3: trapped the dialog tree of a conventional journalist, because it's like. 502 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 2: Talking to a computer. 503 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 3: So doges an advisory group, we are doing the best 504 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 3: we can as an advisory group. The progress made thus 505 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 3: far as an advisory group is excellent. I don't think 506 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 3: any advisory group has done better in the history of 507 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 3: advisory groups of the government. Now, we do not make 508 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 3: the laws nor do we control the judiciary, nor do 509 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 3: we control the executive branch. We are simply advisors. In 510 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 3: that context, we are doing very well. Beyond that, we 511 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 3: cannot we cannot take action beyond that because we are 512 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: not some sort of imperial dictator of the government. There 513 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 3: are three branches of the government that. 514 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 2: That art some degree opposed to that level of cost savings. 515 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: Nonetheless, let's let's not criticize whether there's four trillion and 516 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 3: instead look at the fact that our sixty billion has 517 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: been saved and more we so too. 518 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: And as I said, I think everyone can agree that 519 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: cutting waste and indeed fraud in any government and being 520 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: responsible with taxpayer money is a very good thing. So yes, 521 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: I can see, I can see that you're proud of 522 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: that work. I do want to ask you about USAID 523 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: and the comments that Bill Gates made the other day, 524 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: which and I know that you called him. I know 525 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: you've said that already. 526 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 4: I wanted and I'm just who does Bill Gates think 527 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 4: he is to make comments about the welfare of children, 528 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 4: given that he is before quented Jeffrey Epstein. 529 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: Okay, well, he's he's he said he regrets those and 530 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: he's spent he spent. He spent a lot. He spent 531 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: a lot of his own money on on philanthropy around 532 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: the world over the years. My question to you is, 533 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: have you looked at the data to check if he 534 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: might be right that the cuts to U S a 535 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: I D might cost millions of lives. 536 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 3: Yes, I'd like him to show us any any evidence 537 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 3: whatsoever that that is true. It's false. There were found 538 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 3: with USA D cuts and by the way, they haven't 539 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 3: open cut the parts of the U S A D 540 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 3: that we found to be even slightly useful. We're transferred 541 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 3: to the stage department, so they've not been deleted. They've 542 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 3: cerverly been transferred to the stage department. But many many 543 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 3: times over with US A D and other organizations, when 544 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 3: we've when they said, oh, well this is going to 545 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 3: help you know, children, or it's. 546 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: Going to help some. 547 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 3: Uh disease eradication or something like that, and then when 548 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 3: we ask for any evidence whatsoever, I say, well, please 549 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 3: connect us with this group of children so we can 550 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 3: talk to them and understand more about their issue. 551 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 2: We get nothing. 552 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 3: We don't they don't even try to prevent show. We 553 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 3: should come up with a with it with a show 554 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 3: orphan meaning like this sort of I'm like, well, can 555 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 3: we at least see a few kids, like where are they? 556 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 3: If they're in trouble, we'd like to talk to them 557 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 3: and talk to their caregivers. 558 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 2: And then we get that thing. 559 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 3: As a response because it's what we find is an 560 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: enormous amount of fraud and graft. 561 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: Okay, let me put this example. 562 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 3: Very little of it actually yets so the kids if 563 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 3: anything at all. 564 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: Okay, let me put this example to you because you 565 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: grew up in South Africa, so you will know the 566 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: impact of HIV AIDS well. And this is why I 567 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: asked about the data the US led on international efforts 568 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: to combat HIV AIDS treatment prevention, and there's an initiative 569 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: called PEP file which is credited with saving twenty six 570 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: million lives in the last twenty years. It was part 571 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: of the Foreign aid freeze. Then there was a limited 572 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: waiver its services are disrupted and unaid says if permanly discontinued, 573 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: there will be another four million AIDS related deaths by 574 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty nine. So if you look at that exam, 575 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: which is backed up by data in twenty twenty three, 576 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: six hundred and thirty thousand people died of AIDS related illnesses, 577 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: then perhaps Bill Gates's figures are not wrong. Millions of 578 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: lives could be lost. 579 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 3: First of all, the program, the AIDS medication program, is continuing, 580 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 3: so your fun model premise is wrong. It is continuing. Now, 581 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 3: do you have another example, not. 582 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: In its entirety, not in its entirety the program there's 583 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: a limited waiver and UNAIDS have said that not all 584 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: of the services that were previously funded by USA IDEA continuing. 585 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: So that's that's why I put that example to you. 586 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 2: Okay, well, which ones aren't being funded? 587 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: I'll fix it right now for okay, Well, actually they're 588 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: all on the un unaid's website, so you'll be able 589 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: to see them. But mostly they are to deal with. 590 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: Mostly they are to do with, and for example, the 591 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: rollout of a drug called glenna kappavir, which was hailed 592 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: as one of the biggest breakthroughs against AIDS for many years, 593 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: which came out last year. So if you are perhaps 594 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure UNAIDS would be delighted if you were able 595 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: to look at that again. 596 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 3: Yes, but well, if in fact this is true, which 597 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 3: I doubt it is, then we'll affix it. 598 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: Okay, fine, So finally, political your political influence. I wondered 599 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: whether you have decided yet how much you're going to 600 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: spend on the upcoming midterms. 601 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 3: Is it? 602 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: You spent a lot more money on the last US 603 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: election than you envisaged when you were speaking here three 604 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: years ago. Are you going to continue to spend at 605 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: that kind of level on future elections? 606 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: I think. 607 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 3: In terms of political spending, I'm going to do a 608 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 3: lot less in the future. 609 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: And why is that? 610 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 2: I think I've done enough? 611 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: Is it? Is it because of blowback? 612 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 3: Well, if I see a reason to do political spending 613 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 3: in the future, I will do it currently see reason? 614 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: Ok what about political influence beyond the US? How often 615 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: do you speak to President Putin? 616 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 2: I don't speak to President Putin. 617 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: You've never spoken to President Putin. 618 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 3: I was on a video caller with him once about 619 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 3: five years ago. 620 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: That's the only that's the only. 621 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 3: Speaks President Putin. Oh you must I get it speak. 622 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: Actually, I've heard you. I've heard you speak about it. 623 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: For example, in your West Point speech, you said, oh, 624 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: I challenged President Putin to uh to was it an 625 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: arm wrestle? And I know the wall Street Journalist reported 626 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,479 Speaker 1: your reported conversations. If you're if you're saying they haven't 627 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: happened other than once, I'll take that as red. 628 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 3: Is there worst publication on the face of the earth 629 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 3: than the Wall Street Journal, I wouldn't use that tolign 630 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 3: up my cage for paragraphics that that newspaper is the 631 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 3: worst newspaper in the world. And there's and you know, 632 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 3: if there's one newspaper that should be pro capitalist, it's 633 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 3: the one with Wall Street in the name. But it isn't. 634 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 2: So I have the very lowest opinion of the Wall 635 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 2: Street Journal. 636 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely answers, and you clearly have believed the tripe that 637 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 3: you've written that you've written in those papers I read. 638 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: I read very widely, and I'm putting these questions to 639 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,919 Speaker 1: you so that you have an opportunity to respond to them, 640 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: which you are and for which we're all grateful to hear. 641 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: Your response is, okay, we are. We are out of time. 642 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 3: So you mentioned you mentioned challenging. I did so on 643 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 3: on the X platform. I challenged Vladimir Putin to single 644 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 3: combat over the I didn't talk to him. That was 645 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 3: a post on the X platform. 646 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: That's why, that's why I asked you, and you've and 647 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: you've clarified and explain. Thank you. That's that's why I 648 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: was asking whether you have had reported conversations and and 649 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,959 Speaker 1: you've said you have a video. 650 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 2: Okay, legacy media lize. 651 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: Okay, listen. I actually thought I might give Grock the 652 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: last word, because when I asked Rock what your hardest 653 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: challenge is, it said the strain of managing multiple high 654 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: stake ventures made financial, regulatory and public relations crises. And 655 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: I wondered whether you recognize that characterization and whether you 656 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: do think that this is a pivotal year in your life. 657 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 2: Well, ever, he has been somewhat pivotal, and this one's 658 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 2: no different. 659 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 3: So I mean, in terms of interesting things that probably 660 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 3: our complish this year, the getting Starship two be fully reusable, 661 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 3: so that the that we catch them, both the booster 662 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 3: and the ship, which will be the first fully re 663 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: usable orbital rocket ever in history, which is would be 664 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 3: a profound breakthrough, as the essential breakthrough necessarily to make. 665 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 2: Life multiplanetary and ultimately become. 666 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 3: A space faring civilization. We've got neuralink, which is now 667 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 3: helped five patients restore capability using the Telefty implant where 668 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 3: they're able to control the computer simply by thinking, we'll 669 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 3: be doing our first patient to restore blank just rest 670 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 3: restore site with our blind site implant, which is the 671 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 3: end of this year early next. 672 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 2: In fact, that that first patient might be in U 673 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 2: a E. 674 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 3: Since we have a relationship with you AE and the 675 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 3: Cleveland clinic clinic there the I think what's running on 676 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,439 Speaker 3: the AI front, we are close to what you might 677 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 3: call a GI or digital superintelligent, and I think we'll 678 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 3: see we are seeing an explosion of digital super intelligence here. 679 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 2: And then we've got to at Tesla the what we'll. 680 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 3: Be launching unsupervised autonomy basically self driving cars with no one. 681 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 2: In them in Austin next month. So it's it's a 682 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 2: big year for sure. Many other things on the in 683 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 2: the in the works too. I'm a technologist first and 684 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 2: foremost