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Speaker 1: It's been quite a journey for Gatlin. No athlete in

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Speaker 1: track and field has returned to achieve such greatness after

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Speaker 1: serving a drug suspension.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to be a cautionary tip, so I

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Speaker 2: fought hard not to be a cautionary kip.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, he's faced many difficult decisions, choosing a coach,

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Speaker 1: figuring out what to do with your time after you

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Speaker 1: were suspended, why to return the competition.

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Speaker 3: It's always a challenge to come back from a bad

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Speaker 3: decision with a bad.

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Speaker 2: Outcomeany when I went through my depression, I felt like

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Speaker 2: I was useless. I felt like I didn't have a space,

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Speaker 2: and not necessarily became suicidal, but more I started leading

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Speaker 2: towards being reckless, you know. And I remember basically running

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Speaker 2: over almost like a rock or a herd, and I

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Speaker 2: could barely see straight. And this cop comes over to

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Speaker 2: me and says, hey, did you not see that rock

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Speaker 2: in the road. I was like nice. Oh, He's like, okay, cool,

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Speaker 2: make sure you get home safe. And that nice scared

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Speaker 2: the living crap out of me, because I realized that

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Speaker 2: not only could I make headlines again, it could be

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Speaker 2: ex Gold medalist dies or ex gold medalists kill somebody else.

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Speaker 3: And what I am really impressed by this story, Justin,

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Speaker 3: is the way that you put it behind you. We

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Speaker 3: talk about some cost and you can't change the past.

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Speaker 3: You got to work on the future. And it sounds

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Speaker 3: like running was truly your fire in life and you

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Speaker 3: did everything to reclaim your success.

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Speaker 2: The world will never understand how much pressure you have

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Speaker 2: to deal with, but only the world will see your actions,

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Speaker 2: how you react to situations, you know, and if you're

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Speaker 2: careless for that moment, they're going to think that you've

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Speaker 2: been careless all your life.

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Speaker 1: In this segment of len Bias, A Mixed to Legacy,

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Speaker 1: Episode three of epilogue.

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Speaker 4: The Importance of making the Right to suit.

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Speaker 1: This is Dave Nngrady, executive producer of this podcast series.

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Speaker 4: With this episode, we complete.

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Speaker 1: Our podcast series on the legacy of len Bias. We

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Speaker 1: feature an iconic figure in track and field, an Olympic

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Speaker 1: and World champion sprinter in his early twenties who later

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Speaker 1: served a four year drug suspension, only to return to

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Speaker 1: the sport in dramatic and triumphant ways. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: Justin Gatlin. Few people can claim they've beaten Usain Bolt

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Speaker 1: in a one hundred meter race. Justin Gatlin is one

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Speaker 1: of them, but that's not the most interesting part of

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Speaker 1: his story. At the age of twenty three, Gatlin seemed

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Speaker 1: destined to become an iconic sprinter. He was an Olympic

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Speaker 1: champion and world record holder in the one hundred meters

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Speaker 1: and a world champion in the one hundred meters and

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Speaker 1: two hundred meters, But the golden future faded after Gatlan

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Speaker 1: turned twenty four. In two thousand and six, he tested

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Speaker 1: positive for a banned substance and then served the four

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Speaker 1: year suspension from competition. But Gatlan showed impressive resilience and

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Speaker 1: returned to competition in twenty ten. By the end of

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Speaker 1: the twenty tens, he had reclaimed his position as one

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Speaker 1: of the top sprinters in the world. In twenty twelve,

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Speaker 1: Gatland won Olympic bronze in the one hundred meters. In

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, and twenty fifteen, he was the

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Speaker 1: overall one hundred meter champion in the Diamond League Meat Series,

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Speaker 1: the top track and field pro circuit. He won silver

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Speaker 1: medals in the one hundred meters at the twenty thirteen

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Speaker 1: and twenty fifteen World Championships, Bolt beat him in both races.

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Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, Gatlin finally beat Bolt in the one

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Speaker 1: hundred meters at the World Championships. Gatlan won his last

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Speaker 1: world medal in twenty nineteen, at the age of thirty seven.

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Speaker 1: It was a silver in the one hundred meters. It's

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Speaker 1: been quite a journey for Gatlan. No athlete in track

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Speaker 1: and field has returned to achieve such greatness after serving

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Speaker 1: a drug suspension. Over the years, Gatlin has faced many

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Speaker 1: difficult decisions to appeal his suspension, how to find work

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Speaker 1: when suspended, to try and play in the NFL, which

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Speaker 1: coaches to hire during his comeback, and when to retire.

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Speaker 4: And Gatlin is.

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Speaker 1: With us to talk about his unique career and the

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Speaker 1: decisions he made a big part of what we're trying

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Speaker 1: to do is use Len's story and legacy to promote

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Speaker 1: effective decision making. He made a better decision and it

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Speaker 1: created all these issues. So what do you recall remember,

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Speaker 1: if anything, about Len's story when you were growing up?

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Speaker 4: Had you heard about him.

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Speaker 2: As I became older and became a teenager and a

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Speaker 2: young adult, where obviously he was a cautionary tale for

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Speaker 2: me when I was growing up about making right choices

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Speaker 2: and right decisions, especially in the moments. Notice when you

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Speaker 2: are that athlete who can ascend to the next level

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Speaker 2: and you're hanging around with people who don't have that

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Speaker 2: same opportunity, so you have to make wise decisions. For me,

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Speaker 2: he was urban legend and still has been. You know,

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Speaker 2: like I said, I didn't know what his jersey number was.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you what college you went to, but

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Speaker 2: I can tell you the night of his story and

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Speaker 2: how it changed his life, how it changed everyone around him.

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Speaker 2: It opened my eyes up to see other athletes around

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Speaker 2: me making poor decisions or allowing their decisions be made

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Speaker 2: by someone else. So it shows you that, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: that limb bias kind of tail happens through sports repeatedly

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Speaker 2: even to this day.

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Speaker 1: Justin you faced some critical decisions in your life.

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Speaker 4: We like to.

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Speaker 1: Call our decisions or three types life shaping, which are

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Speaker 1: long term decisions, significant decisions which are more short term

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Speaker 1: like four or five or six month impact, and in

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Speaker 1: the moment decisions, which are spontaneous decisions. Of all the

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Speaker 1: professional decisions you faced choosing a coach, figuring out what

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Speaker 1: to do with your time after you were suspended, Why

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Speaker 1: to return the competition and what was the most significant

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Speaker 1: for you of all those or was there something else?

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Speaker 2: I felt like for me coming back in the sport,

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Speaker 2: it had to be the environment, choosing the right coach,

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Speaker 2: choosing the right training partners to be able to sharpen

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Speaker 2: my skills with I felt. I don't want to say

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Speaker 2: I stumbled along the way, but coming back was a

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Speaker 2: hard climb for me because you know, when I came

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Speaker 2: into the sport, it was almost hand and glove made

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Speaker 2: for me. You know, NCAA champion, get whisked away to

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Speaker 2: one of the best coaches, get whisked away to one

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Speaker 2: of the best sponsors. So my comeback was actually a climb,

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Speaker 2: like I had to find the right coaching system, had

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Speaker 2: to find the right coach who had the same you know,

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Speaker 2: ideology that I had about being one of the best

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Speaker 2: in the world.

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Speaker 1: Take us through that decision. What was the process? Who

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Speaker 1: did you talk to? How did you figure out the

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Speaker 1: best way to make that decision?

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Speaker 2: So for me, family is everything and circle too. I

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Speaker 2: try to keep my circle tight and just natchurally that way,

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Speaker 2: and throughout my ups and downs, my agent's been with me.

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Speaker 2: You know through me being Olympic champion to even through

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Speaker 2: the hard times of four years of being away from

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Speaker 2: my sport. He could have just left me and be like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you're not making any money, you know, we can go

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Speaker 2: our ways. But he was a godsend to me, and

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Speaker 2: once I came back to the sport, he helped me

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Speaker 2: find a coach that would be good for me in

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Speaker 2: that moment. So I start off with a coach in

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Speaker 2: Atlanta and it just didn't pan out. The rhythm of

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Speaker 2: it wasn't right, you know, it just wasn't the right

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Speaker 2: fit for me because it wasn't getting me where I

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Speaker 2: need to be competition wise. So then I moved to

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Speaker 2: Orlando where I found a coach and this coach took

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Speaker 2: me on even with my name being money at that

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Speaker 2: point in time, and Brooks Johnson took me on. And

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Speaker 2: I was with Brooks for about a year and a

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Speaker 2: half and unfortunately we didn't have sparring partners there for

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Speaker 2: me like to really train with. So I moved across

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Speaker 2: town to another coach where he had top elite athletes

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Speaker 2: that I could be able to sharpen my skills with.

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Speaker 2: And I stayed in Claremont with Dennis Mitchell for about

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Speaker 2: since twenty twelve up to the time I retired, which

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Speaker 2: was twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: But there was also Trevor Graham, who was your first coach, and.

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Speaker 4: When we talked about decision making.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to get into this your head a little

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Speaker 1: bit on this, Trevor Graham. If I recall when you

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Speaker 1: picked him, he was connected to.

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Speaker 4: Marion Jones who was having drug issues.

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Speaker 1: Correct, So when we were talking about your decision making,

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Speaker 1: I would imagine you had to anticipate picking these coaches

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Speaker 1: might maybe best for you, but people are going to

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Speaker 1: start thinking about why is he going to these coaches?

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Speaker 1: How did that affect your decision making?

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Speaker 2: If at all, it was the fact that I was

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Speaker 2: a twenty year old naive kid who didn't know nothing

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Speaker 2: about the track and field professional realm. I didn't even

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Speaker 2: know what a coach. A professional track and field coach

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Speaker 2: looked like. I'm a six ton NCAA champion. I didn't

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Speaker 2: know what it took to turn pro. All I know

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Speaker 2: is I need to run my ass off, and if

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Speaker 2: I run my ass off, then I'm gonna get noticed.

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Speaker 2: When my phone rang, that was gonna be Trevor Graham

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Speaker 2: and what his back is backing was no. Then then

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Speaker 2: I got a phone call from Nike, so it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: my dreams are coming true. And obviously, from the outside

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Speaker 2: looking in as a young athlete, I don't know the

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Speaker 2: intricate workings of a professional realm. I didn't know anything

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Speaker 2: about the drug scandal that was about to happen because

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Speaker 2: it didn't happen right when I turned pro, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I'm working with the guy who is who was

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Speaker 2: working with one of my idols at that point in time,

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Speaker 2: which was Marion Jones, and when he won the Golden

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Speaker 2: Sydney and I just turned pro in two thousand and two,

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Speaker 2: so the world was a buzz. I was happy. I

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Speaker 2: was elated. I was I couldn't have been in a

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Speaker 2: better place. I was about to train with one of

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Speaker 2: the people I looked up to, and I was about

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Speaker 2: to be signed by the same company. I thought, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the writing for me was on the wall that I

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Speaker 2: was going to be the next great sprinter in America,

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Speaker 2: and I was ready to take on that challenge and responsibility.

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Speaker 1: This is Dave Ngrady, executive producer of this podcast series.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking with Olympic and world sprint champion Justin Gatlin

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Speaker 1: and Chris Spetzler, executive director of the Decision Education Foundation,

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Speaker 1: about critical decisions made by Gatlin in his career. Let's

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Speaker 1: now bring in again, Chris Spetzler, the executive director of

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Speaker 1: the Decision Education Foundation, a content partner in this podcast series.

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Speaker 4: Can you offer any any insight? And I know you

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Speaker 4: and I have.

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Speaker 1: Talked a lot about framing a decision where you've got

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Speaker 1: to you've got to find the stakeholders who are going

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Speaker 1: to help you make that decision. Does that work in

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Speaker 1: here or or is there something else we're missing?

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Speaker 3: Let me let me back up a little bit and

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Speaker 3: take a couple of different things. One of the first

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Speaker 3: things that I heard Justin talk about was his values

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Speaker 3: and how important his family is to him, And in

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Speaker 3: the latter part of the story, it sounds like that

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Speaker 3: has played a huge role in his resilience and his

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Speaker 3: commitment and his follow through even when he had to

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Speaker 3: figure out through a couple different experiences with a couple

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Speaker 3: different coaches, what was really going to work for him.

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Speaker 3: And that's important to me in that story because it's

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Speaker 3: something that stands in contrast to the first situation. The

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Speaker 3: first decision was one that felt like a no brainer

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Speaker 3: and didn't have the benefit of the later experiences, and

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Speaker 3: was just that this is the way it's supposed to be.

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Speaker 3: It's almost faded, and there wasn't a lot of search

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Speaker 3: for alternatives because it just didn't seem like it was needed.

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Speaker 3: It was the way to go and on automatic. You know,

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Speaker 3: you have to recognize that you're making a decision for

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Speaker 3: it to be a conscious decision.

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Speaker 1: And was that a conscious decision in your mind at

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Speaker 1: that point, for justin the early one with the coach.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure that it was a conscious decision that

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Speaker 3: he knew he was signing up for that coach and

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Speaker 3: that sponsor. On the other hand, it sounds like there

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Speaker 3: wasn't a lot of thought about what other alternatives and

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Speaker 3: does this align with my values? It was just this

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Speaker 3: is the way it's supposed to be, and I'm going

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Speaker 3: for it.

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Speaker 2: So most of the decisions that I made going forward

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Speaker 2: were not by me. It was also by my parents

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Speaker 2: and my circle. They thoroughly vetted Trevor, they thoroughly vetted

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Speaker 2: even Nike. We didn't know much about the track and

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Speaker 2: field work, more professional aspect, so we can only ask

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Speaker 2: questions that we felt were on a moral level, and

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Speaker 2: we got so much reinsurance. No, man, your sons is

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Speaker 2: in good hands. He's going to be great. You know,

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Speaker 2: he has great talent. We're going to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we nurture that talent. So when all these stories started

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Speaker 2: coming out and this scandal start happening, we were reassured

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Speaker 2: that none of this was going to blow back and

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Speaker 2: we weren't going to be put in an awkward situation

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Speaker 2: in this story. So we've sat at a round table

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Speaker 2: and we discussed and we moved forward. We knew that

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Speaker 2: none of us were testing pilative at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: So clearly you were consulting with the stakeholders, the other

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Speaker 1: people who had input could provide authoritative input into your decision.

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Speaker 1: And to clarify for our listeners, both Jones well Jones

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Speaker 1: was ultimately she ultimately admitted using, if I'm correct, using

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Speaker 1: a banned substances, although she denied it for years. And

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Speaker 1: Trevor Graham was kicked basically kicked out of the sport

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Speaker 1: for yeah uh, for his involvement with athletes and performance

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Speaker 1: enhancing drugs.

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Speaker 4: Now, let's let's just get talking.

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Speaker 1: About Dennis s Mitchel quickly, because I remember when you

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Speaker 1: picked him, Dennis Mitchell had a history of performance enhancing

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Speaker 1: drugs connections, baby can, but you still decided to go

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Speaker 1: with him.

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Speaker 4: Can you explain that decision process?

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Speaker 2: After my suspension, coming back and expressing myself to coach

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Speaker 2: Brokes about what was needed, and he agreed with me

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Speaker 2: that I needed training partners. So that's where Thennis name

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Speaker 2: came into the picture. He had an incident that came

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Speaker 2: up with a drug suspension almost more than twenty years

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Speaker 2: ago when he was running, you know, so it was

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Speaker 2: him as a runner, not as a coach. And then

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Speaker 2: I literally had a man dea man conversation with him.

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Speaker 2: I took him out to eat, We had some chicken

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Speaker 2: wings and we had some beer. We had a real

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Speaker 2: man talk and said, hey, this is what I need,

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Speaker 2: this is what I don't need in my life. And

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Speaker 2: he explained, this is what I needed my life as

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Speaker 2: a runner and an athlete, and this is what I

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Speaker 2: don't need in my life. And we shook hands right there.

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Speaker 2: We agreed to be able to work with each other

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Speaker 2: with no kind of incident, no kind of disruption, and

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Speaker 2: I think we kind of had a kindred spirit because

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Speaker 2: we were like, we don't want to feel that pain anymore.

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Speaker 2: We just want to go out and run and compete.

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Speaker 2: I want to be the best coach I can be.

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Speaker 2: I want to be the best athlete ACT can be.

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Speaker 1: Chris, as you've heard Justin, explain a conversation you had

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Speaker 1: with Dennis Mitchell, his most recent coach, and how how

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Speaker 1: he went about making that decision that one on one.

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Speaker 1: How does that fit into the proper way to make

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Speaker 1: a decision in that situation.

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Speaker 3: It's always a challenge to come back from a bad

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Speaker 3: decision with a bad outcome. And what I am really

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Speaker 3: impressed by in this story, Justin, is the way that

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Speaker 3: you put it behind you. We talk about sun cost

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Speaker 3: and you can't change the past. You got to work

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Speaker 3: on the future. And it sounds like running was truly

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Speaker 3: your fire in life and you did everything to reclaim

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Speaker 3: your success. And that's just really inspiring.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Justin, let's go back even a little more. When

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Speaker 1: you realize that you work to be able to compete

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Speaker 1: for four years. And I remember when I was working

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Speaker 1: at WCSN, it came down and did a story for

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Speaker 1: you for them. You were about a year in and

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Speaker 1: you were a personal trainer. That's how you were getting

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Speaker 1: some of your income. You were living in an apartment

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Speaker 1: in Georgia in Atlanta.

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Speaker 4: If I recall, and I I remember it not being

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Speaker 4: a very.

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Speaker 1: Maybe rewarding time for you, or it was a challenging time.

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Speaker 1: What was your decision making process about.

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Speaker 4: The next step.

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Speaker 2: I think the first year in was so surreal to me.

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Speaker 2: It felt like I was away from my sport just

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Speaker 2: extended period. For that first year at least, I watched

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Speaker 2: the Olympics. I watched every meet that I could. I

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Speaker 2: watched people I were competed against. But it did make

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Speaker 2: me sad to watch it. It made me inspired to

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Speaker 2: work harder to come back. I looked at I guess

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Speaker 2: you call it the long the long picture of things

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Speaker 2: or the long goal of things, you know, And for

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Speaker 2: me it was I had nothing to lose. At first,

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Speaker 2: when I was in my situation, I was looking at

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Speaker 2: a lifetime ban. Okay, then it got reduced to eight right,

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Speaker 2: and then I fought that down to four right. But

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Speaker 2: coming back now, in that first year of my suspension,

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Speaker 2: it was like they I can't really explain it. It

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Speaker 2: just felt like so weird. I felt like out of

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Speaker 2: place in life and society because all I knew was

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Speaker 2: track and field. You know, all I knew was that

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Speaker 2: was my success. That's how I made my money, that's

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Speaker 2: how I earned my earned the living, That's where my

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Speaker 2: fire came from. So when that wasn't there for me,

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Speaker 2: I tried to figure out other things that I could do.

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Speaker 4: So what were your values at that time?

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Speaker 1: But Chris has mentioned reference values determined a lot about

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Speaker 1: your decision making was iant What was most important to

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Speaker 1: you at that time? Was it finding a job, We're

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Speaker 1: you gonna make money or was it finding something that

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have fun with a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit of gutting it out and finding what I

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Speaker 2: loved because you remember I ran track from from the

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Speaker 2: moment at high school like fifteen, sixteen years old, right,

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Speaker 2: and then became state champion, then became six time NCAA champion,

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Speaker 2: then became Olympic champion, then became world champion, then became

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Speaker 2: war record holder. So everything that in my young adult

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Speaker 2: life was centered around track. And so when you took

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Speaker 2: me out of it, I felt like I was nothing.

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Speaker 2: So I had to rediscover who justed was in those

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Speaker 2: years that I was away from track.

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Speaker 4: So you were considering football, you had to try it.

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Speaker 2: I did. I had a couple a couple of trials

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Speaker 2: with a couple of teams.

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Speaker 4: Yeah right, how'd that go?

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Speaker 2: It was a different experience. I enjoyed it because it

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Speaker 2: made me. It forced me to learn what it is

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Speaker 2: to be in a different realm, a different world. I

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Speaker 2: wasn't just floating around, So I literally had to be

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Speaker 2: disciplined for football, to lift, to learn the routes to

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Speaker 2: become a football player, mold myself to become a football player.

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Speaker 2: I think that I would be able to make at

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Speaker 2: least to a practice squad, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: and see where it goes from there. But track would

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Speaker 2: leave me alone, even being well suspended, like in the

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Speaker 2: middle of my suspension, Track will not leave me alone.

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Speaker 2: Like I laid in bed at a rookie at a

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Speaker 2: mini camp and bucket at the Buccaneers, and I remember

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Speaker 2: looking at the ceiling at one o'clock in the morning,

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Speaker 2: just thinking like, why am I trying so hard to

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Speaker 2: fit into a sport that's already going to alienate me?

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Speaker 2: Because I'm a track athlete, I shouldn't be on the

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Speaker 2: football field. Probably can't catch, so I'm already gonna be judged,

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Speaker 2: so I feel like if I'm going to be judged,

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Speaker 2: be judging around where I know that I can excel,

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Speaker 2: which is track and field. So I felt like I

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Speaker 2: had to make my way back into a sport that

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Speaker 2: I once.

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Speaker 4: Was a camp about what the de sense to become

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Speaker 4: a personal trainer. Why that became so important.

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Speaker 2: I have a big heart for young athletes, and I

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Speaker 2: think some of the best times in my life, other

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Speaker 2: than having my children, some of the best time of

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Speaker 2: my life, like working wise, was being a runner, discovering

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Speaker 2: where it's going to take me, to the opportunity to

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Speaker 2: show everyone my talent, the praise, the glory that come

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Speaker 2: up with it. So when I see young athletes, I

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Speaker 2: see a little bit of me and all that like

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Speaker 2: working hard, trying to find themselves, especially in track, because

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Speaker 2: I told you before, there's not a lot of people

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Speaker 2: telling these young athletes how to turn pro, so they're

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Speaker 2: just kind of guessing as they go. So I wanted

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Speaker 2: to help a lot of these kids were coming to

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Speaker 2: me ages from like sixteen seventeen all way down to

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Speaker 2: like six years old, so I had I'll train these

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Speaker 2: young athletes just to be better, have better form, even

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Speaker 2: if they were working on in a different sport.

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Speaker 1: Chris, as you're hearing Justin talk now and he's making

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Speaker 1: all these decisions, are you seeing any evolution in his

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Speaker 1: decision making process or any insight?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: I share that huge value that I get out of

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Speaker 3: working with young people, and I have only recognized that

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Speaker 3: over time, and it's the source of real passion and fire.

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Speaker 3: And what I hear in this story is, you know,

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Speaker 3: if everything had gone perfectly for you justin, I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure that you would have grown as much as an individual,

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Speaker 3: as painful as it's been. And it sounds like you're

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Speaker 3: creating a tremendous amount of value and getting a lot

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Speaker 3: of real value out of working with these young people,

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Speaker 3: just because you had an experience that wasn't an easy

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Speaker 3: one and were able to come back from it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I tell myself all the time. I actually think

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Speaker 2: of saying, what if I wasn't suspended, what I be

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Speaker 2: the person I am today? I think my time away

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Speaker 2: from the sport kind of opened my heart up to

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Speaker 2: see from a different angle. You know, I remember training

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Speaker 2: with this athlete when I lived in Atlanta and he

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Speaker 2: was training for the long jump, and he was living

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Speaker 2: out of his car. He didn't A lot of people

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Speaker 2: didn't know this. I pulled up the practice one day

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Speaker 2: early and I saw, you know, and you could tell

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Speaker 2: when somebody's kind of moving or they're living out of

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Speaker 2: their car. I kept it to myself. But one thing

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Speaker 2: I did watch. I watched his progression. I watched how

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Speaker 2: he grew had grew confidence, and I also made sure

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Speaker 2: I reassured him every day, you know, And he went

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Speaker 2: on to make the Olympic team. That was his goal

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Speaker 2: in his dream. He went from living in his car

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Speaker 2: to make the Olympic team. And even though he fouled

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Speaker 2: out at the Olympics, he had the biggest smile on

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Speaker 2: his face because he finally made it. And if I

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Speaker 2: would have been to Justine and never been away from

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Speaker 2: track and fields, I would have never witnessed something like that.

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Speaker 2: I think I would have been jaded to the fact

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Speaker 2: that success should it became easy for everybody.

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Speaker 4: Chris and Justin tells that story.

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Speaker 1: We talked about good decision, bad outcome, bad decision, good outcome,

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Speaker 1: and I was gonna ask Justin if you ever recalled

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Speaker 1: any bad decision he felt he made that a good

436
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Speaker 1: outcome and vice versa.

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Speaker 4: But that seems that that decision.

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Speaker 1: That he made to become a trainer, maybe he didn't

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00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: foresee this happening, but it had several different forms of

440
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: good outcomes.

441
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 4: Can you put that in perspective?

442
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 2: Let me back up a second.

443
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: Okay, so justin I I think I've already made it clear.

444
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: I'm pretty blown away and inspired by your story. And

445
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: it's been some tough stuff. I imagine when all of

446
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: this went down, there was a tremendous amount of regreat.

447
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: So one of the things we talk about decision traps,

448
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 3: which is about cognitive biases, and one of the things

449
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 3: that human beings do is picture the world that they

450
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: want and minimum the world that they don't want and

451
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 3: don't expect, and so that kind of pushes decisions in

452
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: a direction. You know, potentially we call it over confidence.

453
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 3: It sounds to me like you also relied on a

454
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 3: group of people that supported you in your training and

455
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 3: your decision making, and that there was a natural progression

456
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 3: that was a part of that. Maybe it was also

457
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 3: not a fully conscious kind of decision situation. You know,

458
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: this is we're just moving forward and we're doing the

459
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 3: things we're doing. I'm blown away that we're sitting here

460
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: talking about this because I didn't certainly didn't know of

461
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: your story, and your honesty with all of this is

462
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: just amazing to me. And then that story of like, Okay,

463
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 3: so now I'm on this the other side of this,

464
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: this really sucks. What do I do now? And rather

465
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 3: than staying that, you dug yourself out of it and

466
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 3: you found the people to support you in getting out

467
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 3: of it, and you came back and you did the

468
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 3: things that they've went through, and that's I mean, that's

469
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: really quite astounding, and it must have been a deep

470
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 3: down that you'd never expected.

471
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 2: You never know how tough you are to you put

472
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: in a situation where you have to be tough and

473
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: how tough you need to be to be able to

474
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: survive and thrive and hold onto your goals and ambitions.

475
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: I feel like everything was taken from me, my identity.

476
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: Even when I watched shows like or Track Meets, they

477
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 2: wouldn't even speak of my name. So it's like everything

478
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 2: I worked hard for was just kind of like blown

479
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: away in the wind. Eventually I would just be an

480
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 2: outcast and someone who was in the sport years ago.

481
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: So I didn't want it to be that way because

482
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: I felt like I had so much more to give,

483
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: not only to the sport, but to the next generation

484
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: when it came to my upside, my downs. You know,

485
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 2: I never never want to see anybody go through the

486
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: situation that I went through. I wouldn't wish it on

487
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: anybody because it was such a smack of my face

488
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: of reality that I went through so many different variations

489
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: of anger, depression, chicking my shoulder that I once I

490
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: came back into the sport, I had to like mold

491
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: all this energy that I had balled up inside me

492
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: for so long and somehow projected into training and somehow

493
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 2: projected into competition. You know. So those four years were

494
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 2: pivotal not only for my career but for my life.

495
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: You know, it grew me, It grew me so much.

496
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: So I I hear two things and and the the

497
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: frame I'd like you to be in is like advising

498
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 2: the young athletes or any young person.

499
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 3: And the first one is, you know, if you could

500
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: go back to before all of this went down, what

501
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 3: would you suggest somebody facing that situation do differently? And

502
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: then the second one is, you know, when you're in

503
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: your deepest, darkest recovery.

504
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: How do you.

505
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: Not let get go of hope and come back because

506
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: those are two very different things, but you've got special

507
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: insight into them.

508
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: I guess I would tell young athletes today that are

509
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: that are making the same moves and walking the same

510
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: path that I walked, is believe in yourself. Know who

511
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: you are, not only move like an athlete. Start to

512
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: understand business. Start to understand people who are going to

513
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: make decisions for your life. You know, like that's going

514
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: to change your life, it may not change their life

515
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: that much. And that's what I went through, And I

516
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: felt like walking into a door and saying, oh, this

517
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: is what it is. Okay, I'll let you handle what

518
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: you handle. I'm just gonna worry about focus on running,

519
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: and that's it. And I think for me, that was

520
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: that should have been a red flag in my in

521
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: my twenty twenty hindsight, where I should have took those

522
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: situations where I might have scratched my head and said,

523
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: ham let's figure something out here, let's do a better

524
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: job of doing a little more research. So for the

525
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: young athletes, I say, as much as you want to

526
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: be a professional athlete, be a business person too. Your

527
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: brand now, especially the young athletes. You're a brand, remember

528
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: who you are because at the end of the day,

529
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: you make the decisions for yourself. And I didn't have

530
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: the opportunity, and I wish that I could move back

531
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: and change that.

532
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 3: We talked about decision power, and it sounds like you

533
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 3: trusted others with your decision power, and if you could

534
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 3: do it again, you wish you.

535
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: Had held on to that decision power. Absolutely absolutely, And

536
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 2: I think that that's how success is built. And if

537
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: it's something that you love, you should pay attention to

538
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: the details, and those young athletes should do so well.

539
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: Just so then there's the other side of it, right

540
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: and and some of this stuff is really tough. I mean,

541
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: we know that there are kids out there that give

542
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: up hope and leave this world and that kind of stuff.

543
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 3: You were in the depths and you found the strength

544
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: to come back. So you know, when someone experiences that

545
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: kind of a you know, trauma to their life, what

546
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 3: did you learn and what can you share in terms

547
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: of pulling yourself back together.

548
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: I had so many different feelings through my process of

549
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: my ups and downs, and it reminds me of the

550
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: point where I came to depression, because depression is such

551
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: a big thing right now for a lot of people,

552
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: they're realizing depression doesn't just mean that you're sad and

553
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: crying all the time. When I went through my depression,

554
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: I felt like I was useless. I felt like I

555
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: didn't have a place, and not necessarily became suicidal, but

556
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: more I started leaning towards being reckless, you know, like

557
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: going out and party on the weekday, getting so drunk

558
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: that my eyes are blurry. Who's going to drive me home?

559
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to drive me home kind of thing, you know.

560
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: And I remember basically running over almost like a rock

561
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: or a curb, and I could barely see straight. And

562
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: this cop comes over to me and says, hey, did

563
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: you not see that rock in the road. I was like, no,

564
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: I see it. Oh He's like, okay, cool, you get

565
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: home safe now. I knew he knew he could see

566
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: that I drink it, you know what I mean. It

567
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: was hard for me to hide it. That's how drunk

568
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: I was. And that night scared the living crap out

569
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: of me because I realized that not only could I

570
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: make headlines again, it could be ex gold medalist dies

571
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,719
Speaker 2: or ex gold medalists kill somebody else, and I started

572
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: thinking in the big frame of things. So that depression,

573
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: I looked back at it and said, Okay, all the

574
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: people who were in my circle who wanted me to

575
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: do well, lift me up. If I checked out now

576
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: in any kind of form, in any kind of way,

577
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: then I would be doing them with the service because

578
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: they vouched for me, they fought for me, they love me,

579
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: and doing anything less would have been an injustice to them.

580
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: And I think I didn't care about anybodlse in the world,

581
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: but the people who cared for me, and that's why

582
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: we wanted to make a change. So for those young athletes,

583
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: do always think about yourself. Think about the people who

584
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: been helping you get to where you are. Your mom,

585
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: your dad, your guardians, it might be even coaches or

586
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 2: principles or whoever else out there, but the ones that

587
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: have your best interests at heart. Think about them in

588
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: the hard times that you're having.

589
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: I see such a correlation to what lend Bias could

590
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: have been thinking as well if he had a different

591
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: frame of mind. Oh, how how is what I'm doing

592
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: here going to affect someone else?

593
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 4: It's gonna have It's gonna affect other people. He never

594
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 4: did that.

595
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: When he decided to consume so much cocaine so early

596
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: in the morning and party like that, he was thinking

597
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: right in front of him, how am I going to

598
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: please myself? He would clearly lost perspective of where he was.

599
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: So I see a really strong direct correlation between that

600
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: situation that he didn't survive in your situation, which you

601
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: did survive, exactly, you're coming out on the on the

602
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: on the good side of this in a way.

603
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: When I was in those situations, I really had that

604
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: time to think it has some clarity. Situations like limbias

605
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: really came to mind because it was like, the world

606
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: will never understand how much pain you're in, the world

607
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: will never understand how much pressure you have to deal with.

608
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: But only the world will see your actions, how you

609
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: react to situations, you know, and if you're careless for

610
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: that moment, they're going to think that you've been careless

611
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 2: all your life, you know. So for me, it was

612
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: taking on that responsibility and obligation of realizing I have

613
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: to walk a certain line to be the athlete I

614
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: want to be, but also I couldn't be a careless

615
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: person and still give so much inspiration to young athletes

616
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: that are coming behind me. I didn't want to be

617
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: a cautionary tale, so I thought hard not to be

618
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: a cautionary tale. I have I have one thing that

619
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: I'd like to ask.

620
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 3: For David Field and indulge me. So We're spending all

621
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: of this time on kind of this down stuff, and

622
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 3: I'm working on integrating the decision stuff into a health course,

623
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 3: and I don't really want to talk so much about

624
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 3: mental health as sort of the positive psychology stuff that

625
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 3: has to do with mental edge. And you've been talking

626
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: about how you pulled it back together. Could you just

627
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: spend a little bit of time talking about, like, when

628
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 3: you're really on your game, how that feels, and how

629
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: you get there and how you stay there, Because you know,

630
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: we spend all this time on the other stuff. You

631
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: have been and are champion and so you know at

632
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: that elite level what it takes to be on your game.

633
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: Totally different side of the coin. I love this side

634
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: of the coin because coming back through all that and

635
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: started being back on my game, it felt good because

636
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: I wasn't clouded by fan cheers. I wasn't distracted by

637
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 2: bandwagon fans or people want a moment in the spotlight,

638
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: I was mugged. When I came back, I had to

639
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: like create a persona that kind of protected me, the

640
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: soft justice, the justice that wants to be friends with

641
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: everybody and have fun. I had to create this hard

642
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: out of shell that said, you know what you're hearing.

643
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: Hand of business. I had to be strong enough to

644
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: take on anything as I stepped into that stadium, let

645
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: it be distractions or booze or anything. I knew what

646
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 2: my objective was because I had so much clarity now,

647
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 2: I knew what rock bottom looked like. So the toughness

648
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: was staying the course, staying dialed in, making not only

649
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: my sport a sport or a job, but making it

650
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: my lifestyle. That's what it was for me. I was doing.

651
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: I was doing five hundred to six hundred sit ups

652
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: every night. I was doing one hundred to two hundred

653
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: push ups every night. Before. I was walking around like

654
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: a cage animal in my hotel room, counting the time

655
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 2: for it. I had to lead to go downstairs and

656
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: catch the bus because I knew that I knew what

657
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: it felt like to fail. I knew what it felt

658
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 2: like to fail in life. At that point in time.

659
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 2: I knew what it felt like to live in an

660
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: apartment in Atlanta that was infested by bugs and roaches.

661
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 2: I knew what it failed to fall, and I didn't

662
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: want to fall anymore. I said, I was tired of it.

663
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 2: I was sick of falling. So I said, you know what,

664
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do the out I'm just gonna go out

665
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 2: here and not care about anything and just run. If

666
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: I got a lane, great, I have opportunity, and I'm

667
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: gonna run my butt off to be able to make

668
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: this next team and run my butt off to be recognized.

669
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm run my butt off to get a meet that

670
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: were blackballing me and blackness to me and beaten by

671
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: me doing that, and stay in the course and never

672
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 2: really talking to the media as in the sense of life,

673
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: woe was me. I just want to show my talent.

674
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 2: That's it.

675
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: This is Dave Ngrady, executive producer of this podcast series.

676
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking with Olympic and World sprint champion Justin Gatlin

677
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: and Chris Spetzler, executive director of the Decision Education Foundation,

678
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: about critical decisions made by Gatlin in his career. I

679
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: do recall when you came back there were a lot

680
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: of meat directors who wouldn't even consider you.

681
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 4: And this is part of what I wrote in the

682
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 4: New York Times story. A lot of meat directors didn't.

683
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: Want to talk to you, didn't want to consider you

684
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: for the races because they were concerned about your history.

685
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: You know. I just always looked at myself as the

686
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: good guy, you know, and I just wanted the opportunity

687
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: to come back, and with those meat promoters not allowing me,

688
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: I remember my agent saying, Hey, it's not about where

689
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: you run, it's how you run. So if you get

690
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 2: the opportunity to jump on the track and run anywhere,

691
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: make sure that you look at it as the Olympic

692
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: finals or you running for the last race of your life.

693
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: And that's the ideology that I took into every race

694
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: coming back into the sport was I was running for

695
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: my life because at that point in time, it was

696
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: a lot of meat that I couldn't get into and

697
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: I went I had to go to meets where it

698
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: wouldn't even cover my airfare, so I was still losing out.

699
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: I was just running. So it was a struggle. It

700
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: was a struggle for me, but I stayed the course

701
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: and a lot of my people in a circle with

702
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: my family, my friends, like they believed in me that

703
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: I could come back, and that was one of my

704
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 2: sources of power.

705
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: Did you feel like your confidence level was any different

706
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: when you got on the track. Did you feel more motivated?

707
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: I felt like coming back, I felt like I still

708
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: was trying to find what my purpose was. You know,

709
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: in the beginning of my career, I did have purpose.

710
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: I was supposed to be the next great one. But

711
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 2: coming back in the sport, you got to remember there

712
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: was a lot of fast guys. Almost all those guys

713
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: were running nine seven by the time I came back

714
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 2: into the sport. And you know, I left the sport

715
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: running nine seven. I was almost half a decade before.

716
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: So I had to figure out how I can be

717
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: able to put myself back into a situation where I

718
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: could flourish. It was uncomfortable for me because I had

719
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: to change a lot of physical things about me as well.

720
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 2: If you watch a lot of my races from the beginning,

721
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: I was I didn't get out the blocks very well,

722
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: or at least I got out with the field, you know,

723
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: and I could run away from everybody. Now I was

724
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: in a realm where everyone was pretty much on paper,

725
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: faster than me. So I had to get out in

726
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 2: front of the field and hold that race pattern and

727
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: be able to finish the race. So I had to

728
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 2: change not only mentally, I had to change physically. I

729
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: had to become a whole new athlete. I had to

730
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 2: throw away all the things that made me who I was,

731
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: who made me a Olympic gold medalist. I had to

732
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 2: be able to evolve before.

733
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 3: I say something, let me just I mean, that was

734
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: in essence, it was kind of the money shot what

735
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: you just said there. What I heard Justin say was

736
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: that when he came back, he had to change the

737
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 3: way that he approached the sport because what worked for

738
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 3: him before wouldn't work for him going forward. And so

739
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: he had to relearn everything that he knew. And that

740
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: was at a physical level, and that was at a

741
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 3: mental level. And it's really just an astonishing sort of

742
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 3: transformation that it sounds like he went through.

743
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: Now, can we tie it into some ways of that

744
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: decision the tools we use in the decision process, Well,

745
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: it sounds.

746
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 3: To me like the commitment and the follow through that

747
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: was associated with kind of the break through decision of

748
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 3: I'm coming back and I'm going to do whatever it takes.

749
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: Was something that had to be every day, and that

750
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 3: it was really fueled by this recognition that it was

751
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: his purpose for himself, and that there were a lot

752
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 3: of people that were a part of that purpose, that

753
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 3: were very much a part of his success and wanted

754
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 3: to see him successful, and that he loved them. And

755
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: that's part of what helped him to do it because

756
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 3: it was a challenging time.

757
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 4: So that ties into values as well.

758
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: The people that were important to him helped motivate him

759
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: to do certain things. I'd like to sort of wrap

760
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: it up with two things here, justin I'd like you

761
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: to talk about the decision in de finally retiring, how

762
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 1: that happens. That's a big decision for athletes, and also

763
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: you beating your same bolt put that in perspective and

764
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: accomplishments in your career only because of where he was

765
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: at the time. So first, your decision to retire, How

766
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: did you go about that decision?

767
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 4: What were some of the important factors.

768
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: I was scared to retire for a couple of years

769
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: and knew retirement was coming at least from twenty eighteen.

770
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: I knew that in the next couple of years, and

771
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: I had to think about retiring. I remember reading an

772
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: article I think Brett Favre said that, and you know,

773
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: Brett Farr had a hard time hiring too, so he said,

774
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: it feels like a piece of you dies. And when

775
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: he said that, that felt like a horror movie. To

776
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: me from an athlete's perspective, it felt like, oh, my

777
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: part of it is going to die. And then I

778
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: realized that there's going to be a moment in time

779
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 2: where I wake up and I'm never gonna have to

780
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: stretch again for practice, another get up for practice again.

781
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: They would have to go run again, never have to

782
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: do an a skip or wear spikes ever again in

783
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: my life? What am I going to do for rest

784
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 2: of my life? And then the pandemic happened and it

785
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: made things even more depressing. And then it gave me

786
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 2: opportunity in twenty twenty one to really look back and

787
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: see all the accolades that I achieved. I never took

788
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 2: the time to kind of witness my own greatness because

789
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 2: I always kind of set it aside and tried to

790
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: work on the next thing. So now I had the

791
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: opportunity to look back and say man, I did that.

792
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: When they speak of reference of like time or medals

793
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: or championships, I said, I did that. I did that.

794
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: I did that.

795
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 4: I did that.

796
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: I did that. Okay, awesome, What else can I do

797
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: in this sport except just be? So I felt like

798
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: it was a moment of time where I'd need to

799
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: make another adult decision in my life and say, okay,

800
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: but I'd rather just be and start, you know, not

801
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 2: have that passion I used to have and start getting

802
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: seconds and thirds and the spots and fifths in my

803
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: races just because it's all I knew, or could I

804
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: step out there on faith and find another adventure another

805
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: challenge for myself because I realized that my talent isn't

806
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: being fast. My talent is being resilient. My talent is

807
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: pushing myself to be a better person. And then I

808
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,479
Speaker 2: got excited. Then I was like, I can do something else.

809
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: I can start a whole other career. So that kind

810
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 2: of pushed me towards retirement in twenty twenty one.

811
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: If I can jump in there, that that's a huge

812
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 3: frame shift. And there was a lot of fear and

813
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: a lot of courage in recognizing that something that has

814
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 3: always you know, defined you justin running is your passions

815
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 3: as the thing that is all consuming wasn't going to

816
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 3: be something that was always there in that way, and

817
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 3: you needed to find a way to transform it to

818
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 3: something new. And it sounds like working with young athletes

819
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 3: has has become one of those things that you've you've

820
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 3: learned and found.

821
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: So I felt like I'm obligated to tell these young

822
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: athletes coming up what it was for me, if they're

823
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: willing to, if they want to know what, they're willing

824
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: to listen because it can make their career much better,

825
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: it can make the sport much better. And that's really

826
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: what it comes down to.

827
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 1: Can you go back to briefly who the stakeholders were

828
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: or people you talk to when you decided to restart retire?

829
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: My coach Dennis Mitchell why because he'd been down that road.

830
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: So I feel like if out of anybody who understood

831
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: what I was going through, I felt like my coach

832
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 2: would understand what what I'm what I would look to

833
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 2: do next in my life. And we talked for years.

834
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: We talked for almost three and a half years about retiring,

835
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: what it would look like for me where I need

836
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: to grow to making sure that you're ready for a

837
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: big move like that. But obviously emotions, I wasn't ready

838
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 2: for that part.

839
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 4: In what ways, what do you mean, hm.

840
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: I pushed so much down inside of me emotionally, my happiness,

841
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: my sadness, anger joy, because if you look at the

842
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: second half of my career, I always displayed little to

843
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: no joy or sadness. I was kind of just there.

844
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: I was that person. I was even right. So I

845
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: remember the moment I finished running at Olympic Trials and

846
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: I laid there after a whole night, hamstring sore, and

847
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 2: just like, all those emotions came out. Finally, all those

848
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: emotions came out, just all at once, just crying in tears,

849
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: and I was able to release myself and be who

850
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,399
Speaker 2: I needed to be. But and a lot of people say,

851
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: always be you, That's which is true, But sometimes you

852
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 2: need to be something a little different to get the

853
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 2: job done. And I needed to be that person.

854
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 4: Let's talk about when you beat both? Did you think

855
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 4: it could have happened sooner than that?

856
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: I raised against him since two thousand and five. I

857
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: raised them always in my comeback from twelve on, and

858
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 2: I beat him in a one off race in Rome

859
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: in thirteen and ever since thirteen, we never raced against

860
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: each other in a one off race. It always was

861
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: a championship in the final, so I only would see

862
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: him one race each year, and then it was the

863
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: old versus the Noon. Then it was bad guy versus

864
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 2: good guy. Then it was Vinn versus Hero. So I

865
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: thought when it was time for me to win, and

866
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: when I saved time for me to win because I

867
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 2: worked hard for it and I knew this moment was

868
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 2: going to come. I didn't feel a little emotional connection

869
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: when I raced against anybody else because in twenty In

870
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, I was still suspended, and I

871
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: remember watching the Olympics in a bar. I sat with

872
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: some other athletes and their mind was just blown when

873
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: they came across the line, like they were just like

874
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: in shock, like they just saw an alien or something.

875
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 2: And the first thing came across my mind is I

876
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: want to race that I want to race that guy

877
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 2: because I feel like that person would push me to

878
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 2: a level that I've never been before. And that was

879
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I really wanted to come

880
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 2: back to the sport, because I wanted to be shoulder

881
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: shoulder with him at starting life and when it before

882
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 2: it happened, I remember, I was like, I was gonna

883
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: be like, yeah I did. I was gonna be so

884
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: arrogant and so cocky, you know what I mean, like usay,

885
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: b two, you out of here kind of thing. None

886
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 2: of that happened. Why no, it didn't happen, because if

887
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: you watched the video, I come across the line, I celebrate,

888
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: I hushed the crowd that were boring me for three rounds,

889
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: and then I proceed to pay homage by bowing to you,

890
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 2: saying and why I do that? So to this day,

891
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: so many people ask me that question because I've never

892
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 2: met a person in my life who forced me to

893
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: change who I was to be a better person. And

894
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: he did that.

895
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 4: That's saying something.

896
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: I had to literally change my whole program to beat him.

897
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 2: I could be ninety nine percent of the people in

898
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: the world by running a certain style of technique. I

899
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 2: had to change who I was as a person an

900
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: athlete to beat him.

901
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 4: How is a person? Did you have to change as

902
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 4: a person?

903
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 2: Because I always feel like I came into that environment

904
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 2: meeting like the Olympics or the World Championships thinking that

905
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: I had to be aggressive and angry and mean this monster,

906
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 2: and then I realized I had to be none of that.

907
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 2: I just had to be me. I had to be

908
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 2: the fighter. That's it. I realized at the end, being

909
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: myself was good enough. I was able to win no

910
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: matter what the time was. I was able to gut

911
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 2: it out and win like a champion.

912
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: Chris, as you hear all this, anything you wanted to

913
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: add about how he took some of those situations and

914
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: made decisions for motivational purposes, for you know, adjusting thing

915
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: just in the what he does things.

916
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, something that occurred to me, Dave that I'm

917
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 3: not sure if you made this connection, but I think

918
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 3: it came out that we got started with this around

919
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 3: len Bias and the bad decision that he made, and

920
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: len Bias didn't get to recover from his bad decision,

921
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 3: and who knows, maybe he would have had a similar

922
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 3: transformation and insight if he had had kind of a

923
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 3: fall and then been able to pick himself up, but

924
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,240
Speaker 3: he didn't get that opportunity. And it sounds like Justin

925
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 3: experienced that depth and even had some responses and some

926
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 3: struggles and realized that it was ultimately not where he

927
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 3: wanted to stop, but he wanted to come back. And

928
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: you know that frame shift and that commitment to rise

929
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 3: above it is really astounding and inspiring.

930
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 5: This podcast series is based on the book Born Ready

931
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 5: The Mixed Legacy of Lembi, published by Go Grady Media.

932
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 5: The series is produced by Go graded Media in partnership

933
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 5: with Octagon Entertainment. This segment was produced by Dave Grady

934
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 5: and Don Marcus. It was written by daveon Grady and

935
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 5: edited by Don Marcus. The narrator was Dave Ungrady, with

936
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 5: additional narration by Jamal Williams. Technical production was provided by

937
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 5: Octagon Entertainment. Production assistance was produced by Kevin mcnelty, Tino Quagliata,

938
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 5: Lauren Ross, Georgia Brown, Casey Fair, Jamal Williams, Kelsey Mannox,

939
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 5: and enzol Al Varrenga. Matt Dohers is providing the social

940
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 5: media assistance special Thanks to the University of Maryland and

941
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 5: American University for providing inservice. The Decision Education Foundation is

942
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 5: a content and promotional partner of this podcast series. For

943
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 5: more information, go to Gogradymedia dot com. This has been

944
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 5: a production of Go Grady Media and the Eighth Side Network.