WEBVTT - #373 Jason Flom with Elwood Jones 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.560 On Labor Day weekend nineteen ninety four, Rooda Nathan flew 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:10.080 into Cincinnati for a bar mitzvah. She shared a room 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.920 at the Embassy Suites in the nearby suburb of Blue 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:17.560 Ash with two friends. On the morning of Saturday, September third, 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.720 her friends went down to the complimentary breakfast, leaving Rhoda 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:25.120 behind to shower. They returned less than an hour later 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:30.000 to a bloody scene after life saving measures had failed, 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.160 and autopsy revealed blood force trauma to Roda Nathan's head 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.760 and torso, as well as that two teeth were missing. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.040 Also missing five hundred dollars had some jewelry, allegedly including 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.120 a pendant that Rhoda always wore. There was no sign 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.440 of forced entry, so the police narrowed their search to 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:51.280 hotel employees, eventually discovering one staffer named Elwood Jones, who 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:56.200 had injured his hand that day. Further investigation revealed his 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.440 access to a master key, as well as various objects 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.440 there could have been responsible for Rodin Nathan's injuries, including 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.480 a walkie talkie and a door chain found in his car. 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:10.040 During the following week, el was injured hand became infected. 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.280 His treating physician noted a bacteria in the wound that 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.640 is commonly found in human mouths. The state argued that 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.360 Elwood Jones infected himself in knocking out Rooda Nathan's teeth, 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:25.240 which sounded scientific enough to the jury. But this is 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:39.040 raeful conviction. Welcome back to Rafel conviction, where we're covering 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.679 yet another story of an innocent man who had been 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.520 sentenced to death in Ohio. This time it's out of 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.040 Hamilton County, which encompasses Cincinnati, and when it comes to 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:53.200 raefel convictions in Ohio, Hamilton is second only to Cuyahoga County. 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.279 And this time it's believed that the prosecutors at trial, 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.480 Mark Pete Meyer and Seth Tiger, names you're going to 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.600 become fromiliar with. Well, it appears that they knew that 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.080 Elwood Jones was innocent but sent him to death. Throw anyway, Elwood, 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.200 I'm so sorry about where you've been and what you've 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.640 been through, but I'm happy and honored to have you 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.799 here today. Thank you, You're very welcome. And joining him 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.600 or two of his attorneys, David Hine, first of all, welcome, 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.680 thank you, glad to be here, and of course j Clark. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:25.919 Thanks Jason. I'm glad to be here as well. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.360 So let's start right from the beginning. As I mentioned, 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.960 this is a Cincinnati story through and through, and you 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:32.880 grew up there, right. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:37.600 I was born in Susinaoha. I grew up downtown in 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:42.040 West the end. I went to Catholic school. My parents 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.200 now moved to the suburbs in the later years. 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:47.720 And what was Cincinnati like back then? 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.079 You tell him about in the sixties, and what none 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:55.880 spectacular about if you're talking about the criminal justice system 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.040 is just as worse as it is now. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:02:59.679 Yeah, I believe you. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.800 There was a study that Hamilton County, by zip code, 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.120 has more people on death row than anywhere else in 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:05.600 the country. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:05.880 Wow. 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.040 I think that in Cuyahoga County they had the same problem, 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.000 as they have one or two or three prosecutors who 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.400 think the rules don't apply and they shouldn't apply. There's 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.320 probably a handful of three or four assistant prosecutors whose 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.560 names keep coming up constantly in cases that have been reversed. 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.120 I mean, if you think about it, the rules kind 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.280 of don't apply to any prosecutor. Their immunity from accountability 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.000 leaves them free to chase the tough on crime image, 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.800 and with this anything goes mentality, we too often see 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.120 a trail of wrongful convictions in their way. And clearly 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.040 Cincinnati was, and sad to say, still is no exception. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.800 It's a very conservative city. And I understand that I 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.920 get that and not believe in law and aught that 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.640 I do, even though I was on the other side 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.680 of the track when I became adult. A couple of 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.000 times I was arrested. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:03:59.000 What was that for? 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:00.960 It was? And burgery? 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.320 That was it? All right? So your record wasn't exactly clean, 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.880 but no violent crimes. And I understand that by now 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.480 you had paid your debt to society and had a 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.360 job working at a hotel, steady job at the Embassy 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.600 Suites in the Cincinnati suburb called Blue Ash, and you 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.480 were in your early forties by this time, married, so 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.719 things were stabilized. And what was your wife's name? 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.320 Ebon. I had a friend on the side, and I 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.039 think there was another piece of the paws in tree 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.280 that they used that I was having an affair. The 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:40.120 name was Earlene Metcalff non Meta. In ninety four, Erlein. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.440 Was one of Elwood's coworkers at the Embassy suites in 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.640 Blue Ash, And obviously, I think most people would agree 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.080 that although theft and infidelity are usually not items on 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.000 the top of anyone's resume, they just don't merit a 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.159 death sentence. These things are also not indicative of someone 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.760 being the type of person to bludgeon another human being 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.960 to death. In this case, a sixty seven year old 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.119 hotel guest named Rhoda Nathan. She had come into Blue 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.200 Ash from New Jersey on Friday, September second, nineteen ninety four, 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:10.599 the day before she died. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.320 Nathan came in for her best friend's grandson's bar mitzvah. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.240 So she was traveling with a friend, Elaine Shubb, and 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.600 her friend's boyfriend, Joe Kaplan, when the three of them 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.080 were staying in the hotel together, and part of the 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.880 state's narrative here is that Roda Nathan's friend and her 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.080 boyfriend were coming from Florida and had checked in earlier 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.800 in the day, just as two people Rode Nathan was 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:37.920 traveling in from New Jersey. She had a different flight, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.960 she got there later, and the state's position was, whoever 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.080 was watching the room thought that there were only two 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.040 people in the room and there were actually three people 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.960 staying there, and then the next morning Rhoda's traveling companions 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.039 got up and went down for breakfast, Rota stayed behind 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.640 to shower. So the story goes, whoever was watching this 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.479 room room entered the room, expecting the room to be 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.159 empty so that they could take whatever they wanted, and 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:06.280 were surprised to find. 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:07.400 Wrote to Nathan in the room. 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.880 You know what I was reading about this? I thought, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.680 if the goal was to steal, then why not just 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.640 pretend to be housekeeping and leave, you know, without murdering someone. 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.279 I mean, at first glance, there's already a hole in 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.360 the store you could drive a truck through. But okay, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.320 so I would hear from Elwood. I would tell me 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:26.040 about that morning. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.840 So when I came in that morning at four point 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:33.320 thirty and brought Earleen to work, we clocked in I 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.400 think it was about quarter to five. I usually come 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.720 in early in the morning to help in the comp breakfast, 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.320 and then I would go to the banquet department and 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:44.560 finish my day out. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.080 On that particular day, one of Elwood's coworkers had called 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.640 out sex, so he had to pull double duty, floating 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.839 between complimentary breakfast and the banquet departments. So after setting 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.760 up camp breakfast, he went up to the banquet halls, 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.719 which were not in the best. 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.080 They was trashed, so I had to clean them out 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:08.240 and come downstairs. I think it was around six, and 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:12.200 going to the dumpster, I tripped going up the steps 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.720 to the dumpsters the metal stairs. Going up there, I 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:20.040 smashed my hand. Come on back into the kitchen, clean 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.640 my hand, put a band aid on it, and went 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:27.960 on back to work. I think it was around eight 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.400 or something. After that the scream was upstairs. I was 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:36.200 in compbrepast. Everybody started going upstairs to see what. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:41.040 Happened, and the scream, you know, presumably came from Elaine Shubb, 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.320 who first came upon this literal here scene rode to. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:50.360 Nathan was naked, covered in blood, and the area around 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.480 her was, you know, a bloody mess. So whoever attacked 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.840 her would logically and certainly have been covered in blood. 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.040 Within the minute of this vicious attack, Elwood was standing 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.440 in the restaurant, completely composed in the clothes that he 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.960 was in, not disheveled in any way, not covered in blood. 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:14.560 Whoever did this had to have been covered in blood themselves. 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.040 Right, Jay and At this point, no one knew what happened. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.000 They were just trying to save Rhoda, who had blood 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:21.280 pouring from her mouth. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.200 I think the initial thought was that she had had 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.040 a medical emergency, probably a heart attack or something along 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.880 that line. The guest a Hotel who was also a nurse, 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.000 they were trying to render her first aid. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.360 She was still breathing and she still had a pulse, 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.319 but she was struggling like she was I think, effectively 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.920 choking on the blood. So one of the issues here 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.680 is that they kept taking towels and trying to mop 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.320 the blood out of her throat and out of her 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.960 mouth to kind of clear the airway. All of those 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.560 towels used to help clean up the room that would 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.760 have had DNA on it were thrown out when. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.960 Blue Ash Fire department arrived. I think they tried to 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.920 intubate her, and that gets to another issue about teeth 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.199 maybe being dislodged or broken out. 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.520 Later on, the States speculated that Rooda Nathan's broken teeth 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.680 were responsible for the injury and the infection on ELA's hand. 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.760 But back to the immediate aftermath. At this point, the 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.920 room was not yet being treated as a crime scene. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.120 Evidence was being contaminated or destroyed, and new injuries were 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:24.080 potentially being created by first responders and medical personnel that 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.480 added to the overall picture. At the autopsy, she was 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.520 pronounced dead Epitheesda North Hospital and then was taken to 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.640 the Hamilton County Coroner's office. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.800 What they reported in the autopsy was that there was 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.480 Bluntfort's trauma and I think they said that there were 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.240 blows to the torso, the face, and the jaw. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.520 She also tested positive for hepatitis B right. 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.480 She was actively infected with it. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.839 Although we cannot be one hundred percent sure. This suggests 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.800 that she was infected with hepatitis B prior to the attack, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.840 and that became pretty important later on. However, as soon 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.000 as her death was rolled a homicide, two thirty seven 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.240 was then considered a crime scene, where they discovered that 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.120 about five hundred dollars was missing, along with some jewelry, 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:12.640 allegedly including a pendant necklace that Rhoda's traveling companion, Elaine Shubb, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.920 said that Roda had always worn. I know, you guys 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.720 had said that the bloody towels had been tossed, right, 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.360 So was there any other probative physical evidence at all. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:28.160 So there were fingernails, scrapeigs, some hairs, things of that nature. 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.760 There was blood all over the room, so they scraped 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.560 it from all over the place, the television, the bed, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.480 the table, the carpets, the walls, the doors, et cetera. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.880 And there should have been direct evidence of whoever was 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.079 involved in this crime, because you were going in there 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.079 immediately after the killers. 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.760 DNA should have at least been under her fingernails. None 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.520 of it was a match for Elwood. But before any 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.840 of that was even tested, they started talking to staff 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.760 and hotel guests, and they were leaning towards the staffer 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.240 since there was no sign of forced entry. Oh you 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.000 know how sometimes they focused on the guy just because 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.560 they have a prior record. You think that's why they 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:05.320 focused on you. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.600 I really can't say, because it was at least thirty 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.160 seven of the employees with criminal records, and some of 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:17.000 them worse than mine. From the general managerone down. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.959 Wow, So there was thirty seven all right, Well, listen, 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.400 you know, more power to the hotel for giving guys 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.960 a second chance and women too. Right, So when did 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:27.160 you go in for your interview? 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:31.920 I think around eleven. I went up to be interviewed. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.360 It was Sogeant Lily John Latt, and I'm pretty sure 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.360 it was Stokes in there there at that time, and 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:41.160 they asked me what happened. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.600 I wrote my statement, so you were free to go. 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.240 But eventually they came back to you, seized and search 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.679 your car, found or allegedly found items in your toolbox 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.520 that they thought were incriminating. But that didn't happen that 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:55.280 Saturday or even the next day. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:12:00.160 Well, on the Sunday, I went to Lublin and was 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.400 at Earlene's house, and I had a guy named Jimmy 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.560 plus my radiate out seem the last person used my tub. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.400 Bouts right, and what Jimmy saw or didn't see became 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:13.920 very important later on in your case. And we'll get 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.480 to that in a minute. So, Dave, what made them 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.000 focus on Elwood. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.720 What ultimately got the police and the state to start 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.319 looking at Elwood, was that he had, as he mentioned earlier, 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.160 cut his hand that day on the dumpster and then 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.040 later when he kind of jammed it in the door, 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.840 and a couple days later went to the hospital because 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.120 it had gotten quite infected. 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.080 Since the victim had been beaten to death, one could 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.960 expect that the assailant's hand might have been injured, and 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.840 Elwood's infection and hospitalization drew unwanted attention to his coincidental 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.760 hand injury, so police spoke to his treating physician, a 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.160 doctor McDonough, and although this was a Strep A infection, 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.600 there was another bacteria present in the wound called icinella, 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.640 which is commonly found in human mouths. This spawned of 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.920 theory that the infection came from wrote in Nathan's teeth. However, 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.600 according to Elwood, he had licked his own wound soon 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.560 after his work related injury had occurred. Elwood saw testing 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.160 for akinella to prove his claim, but was told that 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.640 his heavy course of antibiotics would have already cleared up 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.120 any icinella in his own mouth. Further police interviews with 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:23.400 hotel staff only served to corroborate Elwood's alibi. However, only 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.680 Arlene Metcalf could give a solid time and place for Elwood. 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.760 At around seven point thirty, the belief time of the murder, 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.040 the pair had gone on break together. It appears the 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.360 police found this alibi too convenient and brought him in 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.560 again for questioning on September twelfth. 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.680 When They questioned me on the twelve. They didn't like 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:47.120 my attitude when God told him that you asked me 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.880 what idea that day? And I told you, And they say, what, 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:55.240 you had a master key? And I explained to them, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.880 I say, every key in the hotel is a master key. 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.360 I say, guests don't know they mastered the keys. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.640 Wait, so every key was the same for every room. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:12.480 Yeah, but they just didn't tell no what nuts. I 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.280 thought it was crazy when I first found out about it. 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.960 It's kind of funny to think about now thirty years later. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.480 But they were all still metal plates for them to 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:22.880 cut new keys when a guest would leave with the 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.080 key or something like that. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.280 They just didn't bother. Everything matched. 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.680 Well, I'm certainly glad it's not the nineties anymore. I mean, 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.640 I can't get over that. So they already thought that 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.360 you were their guy, so this probably looked to them 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.360 like you were trying to deflect attention from yourself. Now. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.640 They also brought in your wife, Yvonne, on the twelfth 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:42.200 as well. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.760 Yeah, on the way to the police station, they told 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.400 her say, well, by the way, you know your husband 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.080 was having an affair. She said, well, I knew he 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.800 wasn't coming home on time, she say, but all men 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.520 are dogs in a sense, and that just shut that up. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.040 She one told me exactly what she told police, and 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:03.160 the end of that. 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.520 Comes, that's a pretty understanding person that you were married to. 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.520 But did weird talk about that later? We just get 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.840 through this. She stuck with me. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.720 So they were probably telling her that to get her 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:16.520 to turn on you. Right, it's not you don't need 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.000 to be Columbo to figure this out. But Yvonne didn't bite. 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.520 So they seized your car and initially just found a 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.960 door chain that they later tried to say was some 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.520 sort of a weapon. Right, And we'll get to that 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.280 in a bit. But then, if I'm understanding this correctly, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.440 A day or so later, a Blue ash police officer 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.600 named Michael Bray claimed to have found miss Nathan's pendant 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.000 in your car. Am I getting this correct? 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.720 Can I take this because this is a part that 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:42.480 this is something I am really like. 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:43.800 This bugs me. 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:45.960 I wanted, Dave, I want to talk about Yeah. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.680 So, so the story with the pendant. So the police 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.760 went to pawnshops and ostensibly couldn't find this piece of 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.400 jewelry anywhere. Then they took his car. They impounded it 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.080 on the twelve. They then had it in their possess 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.160 for forty eight hours before they took it to the 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.360 coroner's office, and multiple people searched the car for hours 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.560 and didn't find anything. And then after that one officer decides, well, 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.640 I'm going to go back and search again, I guess, 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.000 or search the one spot that you would think they 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.120 would want to look for evidence, which would be the trunk, 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.680 the space where someone might store something. And if Officer 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:26.640 Bray is to be believed, they never looked in the 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.400 trunk before. I don't know. But when this guy is 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.600 all by himself with no one to corroborate it, he 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.920 says that he went into the trunk of the car, 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.720 opened the toolbox, and there it was, just sitting there. Now, 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:41.400 did he take a picture of it in the car? 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:42.040 No. 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.640 Did he take a picture of the trunk open with 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:45.520 the toolbox in it. 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:46.080 No. 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.720 He took a picture of the pendant in his hand 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.520 with the car in the background, and then told people, 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.440 look what I found in the car. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.119 This podcast is brought to you by Ohio Justice and 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.359 Policy Center, a nonprofit law firm that seeks justice for 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.760 people torectly impact it by Ohio's criminal legal system. 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We don't 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:07.040 write people off. 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.120 Another officer flies up to New Jersey or New York 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.359 with the pendant to meet with Rooda Nathan's family, and 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.240 all of this is withheld from Melwood at the original trial. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.680 But the family looks at it and goes, that's not it. 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.520 And then they tell the police officers look this pendant 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.280 though it's a really unique piece of jewelry was made 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.240 from some family rings, some heirlooms. And then they talk 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.240 to another family member who we'd just refer to as 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:44.000 Uncle Ira, who was Rhoda's brother in law, and he goes, no, 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.960 that's not correct. I have those family rings. This was 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.680 just bought in a jewelry store of Brooklyn. So there's 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.760 evidence that potentially this isn't even the right pendant. There's 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.639 evidence that it definitely wasn't the unique piece of jewelry 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.359 that the state says that it was. And there are 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.439 very very serious ques questions about whether this thing was 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.359 ever actually found in the car at all. None of 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.160 that was shared, none of that was provided. 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.359 So their big smoking gun turned out to be total 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.240 horseshit and they knew it. I mean, this has to 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.440 be why they didn't arrest you for over a year. Now. 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.160 There was one other item that we mentioned in your car, 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.439 the door chain. What's the story with that? 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.640 It was a door chain inside of my tub box, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.399 and it's not no type of doorchain used in the hotel. 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.280 The hotail used a boar chain. And the first thing 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:35.960 I askeaid, What'd I do? Go out to my car 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:37.960 get a tool chain. I need something to whooped this 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.960 woman with. I say, doesn't it have some type of 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.960 blood or provensis or something on it? I said, come 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:44.879 on with the stop it. 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.919 So this freaking door chain wasn't even the type that 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.400 would have been available in the room if somebody even 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.359 wanted to use that as a weapon, which in itself 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.480 is ridiculous. This was just some random ass door chain 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.880 in your car. The whole theory is fucking ridiculous. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:01.360 And that's not even the worst one. 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.800 One of their theories is they say that whoever it 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.640 was beat this woman to death, not just with their 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.679 hands and the chain, but then a walkie talkie and 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.760 then hit them with multiple objects. In fact, the police 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:17.320 officers for months were trying to send images to the 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.240 FBI to get them to confirm, like, hey, this looks 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.440 like it could be Elwood shoe, right, and they would 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.760 come back and be like, no, no, this is not consistent. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:27.320 With Elwood shoe at all. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.919 In fact, it looks like it could be X and 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.760 something that might implicate somebody else, And they'd be like, 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.000 let's try again, how about the walkie talkie, And they 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.000 finally got them to say something to the effect of 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:42.160 the bruising is potentially consistent with something of that shape, 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:47.040 so like a square or a rectangle, but that's as 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.280 close as they would get. And with that, the state 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:55.199 then completely distorted it into aha, a bruise and an 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.639 item that's so significantly tied together that it's essentially a fingerprint, 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.399 which is just a lie. 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.720 I mean, a walkie talkie. How many other hotel staffers 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:05.679 is probably haven't. 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:11.200 I'm glad you mentioned that we have several departments. Everybody 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.399 have at walkie talkie. But that morning the police was 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:21.080 given information of two people leaving this Nathan's room, one 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:25.000 going left, one going right with a walkee Chlkie in 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.680 his hand, and to the day, I feel that's where 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.920 they got that theory of a walkie talkie. They never 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.800 went back to try to find out who these two 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.399 people was or where that walkie talkie is. 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.480 To the day, this is just one of many more 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.120