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Speaker 1: On Labor Day weekend nineteen ninety four, Rooda Nathan flew

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Speaker 1: into Cincinnati for a bar mitzvah. She shared a room

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Speaker 1: at the Embassy Suites in the nearby suburb of Blue

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Speaker 1: Ash with two friends. On the morning of Saturday, September third,

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Speaker 1: her friends went down to the complimentary breakfast, leaving Rhoda

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Speaker 1: behind to shower. They returned less than an hour later

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Speaker 1: to a bloody scene after life saving measures had failed,

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Speaker 1: and autopsy revealed blood force trauma to Roda Nathan's head

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Speaker 1: and torso, as well as that two teeth were missing.

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Speaker 1: Also missing five hundred dollars had some jewelry, allegedly including

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Speaker 1: a pendant that Rhoda always wore. There was no sign

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Speaker 1: of forced entry, so the police narrowed their search to

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Speaker 1: hotel employees, eventually discovering one staffer named Elwood Jones, who

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Speaker 1: had injured his hand that day. Further investigation revealed his

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Speaker 1: access to a master key, as well as various objects

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Speaker 1: there could have been responsible for Rodin Nathan's injuries, including

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Speaker 1: a walkie talkie and a door chain found in his car.

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Speaker 1: During the following week, el was injured hand became infected.

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Speaker 1: His treating physician noted a bacteria in the wound that

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Speaker 1: is commonly found in human mouths. The state argued that

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Speaker 1: Elwood Jones infected himself in knocking out Rooda Nathan's teeth,

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Speaker 1: which sounded scientific enough to the jury. But this is

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Speaker 1: raeful conviction. Welcome back to Rafel conviction, where we're covering

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Speaker 1: yet another story of an innocent man who had been

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Speaker 1: sentenced to death in Ohio. This time it's out of

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Speaker 1: Hamilton County, which encompasses Cincinnati, and when it comes to

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Speaker 1: raefel convictions in Ohio, Hamilton is second only to Cuyahoga County.

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Speaker 1: And this time it's believed that the prosecutors at trial,

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Speaker 1: Mark Pete Meyer and Seth Tiger, names you're going to

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Speaker 1: become fromiliar with. Well, it appears that they knew that

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Speaker 1: Elwood Jones was innocent but sent him to death. Throw anyway, Elwood,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry about where you've been and what you've

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Speaker 1: been through, but I'm happy and honored to have you

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Speaker 1: here today. Thank you, You're very welcome. And joining him

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Speaker 1: or two of his attorneys, David Hine, first of all, welcome,

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Speaker 1: thank you, glad to be here, and of course j Clark.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Jason. I'm glad to be here as well.

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Speaker 1: So let's start right from the beginning. As I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: this is a Cincinnati story through and through, and you

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Speaker 1: grew up there, right.

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Speaker 3: I was born in Susinaoha. I grew up downtown in

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Speaker 3: West the end. I went to Catholic school. My parents

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Speaker 3: now moved to the suburbs in the later years.

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Speaker 1: And what was Cincinnati like back then?

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Speaker 3: You tell him about in the sixties, and what none

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Speaker 3: spectacular about if you're talking about the criminal justice system

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Speaker 3: is just as worse as it is now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe you.

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Speaker 2: There was a study that Hamilton County, by zip code,

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Speaker 2: has more people on death row than anywhere else in

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Speaker 2: the country.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I think that in Cuyahoga County they had the same problem,

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Speaker 2: as they have one or two or three prosecutors who

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Speaker 2: think the rules don't apply and they shouldn't apply. There's

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Speaker 2: probably a handful of three or four assistant prosecutors whose

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Speaker 2: names keep coming up constantly in cases that have been reversed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it, the rules kind

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Speaker 1: of don't apply to any prosecutor. Their immunity from accountability

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Speaker 1: leaves them free to chase the tough on crime image,

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Speaker 1: and with this anything goes mentality, we too often see

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Speaker 1: a trail of wrongful convictions in their way. And clearly

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati was, and sad to say, still is no exception.

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Speaker 3: It's a very conservative city. And I understand that I

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Speaker 3: get that and not believe in law and aught that

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Speaker 3: I do, even though I was on the other side

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Speaker 3: of the track when I became adult. A couple of

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Speaker 3: times I was arrested.

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Speaker 1: What was that for?

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Speaker 3: It was? And burgery?

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Speaker 1: That was it? All right? So your record wasn't exactly clean,

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Speaker 1: but no violent crimes. And I understand that by now

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Speaker 1: you had paid your debt to society and had a

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Speaker 1: job working at a hotel, steady job at the Embassy

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Speaker 1: Suites in the Cincinnati suburb called Blue Ash, and you

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Speaker 1: were in your early forties by this time, married, so

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Speaker 1: things were stabilized. And what was your wife's name?

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Speaker 3: Ebon. I had a friend on the side, and I

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Speaker 3: think there was another piece of the paws in tree

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Speaker 3: that they used that I was having an affair. The

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Speaker 3: name was Earlene Metcalff non Meta. In ninety four, Erlein.

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Speaker 1: Was one of Elwood's coworkers at the Embassy suites in

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Speaker 1: Blue Ash, And obviously, I think most people would agree

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Speaker 1: that although theft and infidelity are usually not items on

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Speaker 1: the top of anyone's resume, they just don't merit a

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Speaker 1: death sentence. These things are also not indicative of someone

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Speaker 1: being the type of person to bludgeon another human being

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Speaker 1: to death. In this case, a sixty seven year old

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Speaker 1: hotel guest named Rhoda Nathan. She had come into Blue

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Speaker 1: Ash from New Jersey on Friday, September second, nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 1: the day before she died.

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Speaker 4: Nathan came in for her best friend's grandson's bar mitzvah.

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Speaker 4: So she was traveling with a friend, Elaine Shubb, and

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Speaker 4: her friend's boyfriend, Joe Kaplan, when the three of them

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Speaker 4: were staying in the hotel together, and part of the

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Speaker 4: state's narrative here is that Roda Nathan's friend and her

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Speaker 4: boyfriend were coming from Florida and had checked in earlier

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Speaker 4: in the day, just as two people Rode Nathan was

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Speaker 4: traveling in from New Jersey. She had a different flight,

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Speaker 4: she got there later, and the state's position was, whoever

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Speaker 4: was watching the room thought that there were only two

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Speaker 4: people in the room and there were actually three people

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Speaker 4: staying there, and then the next morning Rhoda's traveling companions

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Speaker 4: got up and went down for breakfast, Rota stayed behind

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Speaker 4: to shower. So the story goes, whoever was watching this

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Speaker 4: room room entered the room, expecting the room to be

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Speaker 4: empty so that they could take whatever they wanted, and

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Speaker 4: were surprised to find.

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Speaker 5: Wrote to Nathan in the room.

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Speaker 1: You know what I was reading about this? I thought,

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Speaker 1: if the goal was to steal, then why not just

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Speaker 1: pretend to be housekeeping and leave, you know, without murdering someone.

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Speaker 1: I mean, at first glance, there's already a hole in

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Speaker 1: the store you could drive a truck through. But okay,

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Speaker 1: so I would hear from Elwood. I would tell me

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Speaker 1: about that morning.

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Speaker 3: So when I came in that morning at four point

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Speaker 3: thirty and brought Earleen to work, we clocked in I

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Speaker 3: think it was about quarter to five. I usually come

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Speaker 3: in early in the morning to help in the comp breakfast,

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Speaker 3: and then I would go to the banquet department and

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Speaker 3: finish my day out.

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Speaker 1: On that particular day, one of Elwood's coworkers had called

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Speaker 1: out sex, so he had to pull double duty, floating

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Speaker 1: between complimentary breakfast and the banquet departments. So after setting

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Speaker 1: up camp breakfast, he went up to the banquet halls,

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Speaker 1: which were not in the best.

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Speaker 3: They was trashed, so I had to clean them out

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Speaker 3: and come downstairs. I think it was around six, and

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Speaker 3: going to the dumpster, I tripped going up the steps

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Speaker 3: to the dumpsters the metal stairs. Going up there, I

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Speaker 3: smashed my hand. Come on back into the kitchen, clean

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Speaker 3: my hand, put a band aid on it, and went

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Speaker 3: on back to work. I think it was around eight

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Speaker 3: or something. After that the scream was upstairs. I was

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Speaker 3: in compbrepast. Everybody started going upstairs to see what.

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Speaker 1: Happened, and the scream, you know, presumably came from Elaine Shubb,

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Speaker 1: who first came upon this literal here scene rode to.

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Speaker 1: Nathan was naked, covered in blood, and the area around

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Speaker 1: her was, you know, a bloody mess. So whoever attacked

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Speaker 1: her would logically and certainly have been covered in blood.

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Speaker 4: Within the minute of this vicious attack, Elwood was standing

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Speaker 4: in the restaurant, completely composed in the clothes that he

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Speaker 4: was in, not disheveled in any way, not covered in blood.

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Speaker 2: Whoever did this had to have been covered in blood themselves.

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Speaker 1: Right, Jay and At this point, no one knew what happened.

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Speaker 1: They were just trying to save Rhoda, who had blood

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Speaker 1: pouring from her mouth.

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Speaker 2: I think the initial thought was that she had had

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Speaker 2: a medical emergency, probably a heart attack or something along

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Speaker 2: that line. The guest a Hotel who was also a nurse,

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Speaker 2: they were trying to render her first aid.

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Speaker 4: She was still breathing and she still had a pulse,

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Speaker 4: but she was struggling like she was I think, effectively

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Speaker 4: choking on the blood. So one of the issues here

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Speaker 4: is that they kept taking towels and trying to mop

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Speaker 4: the blood out of her throat and out of her

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Speaker 4: mouth to kind of clear the airway. All of those

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Speaker 4: towels used to help clean up the room that would

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Speaker 4: have had DNA on it were thrown out when.

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Speaker 2: Blue Ash Fire department arrived. I think they tried to

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Speaker 2: intubate her, and that gets to another issue about teeth

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Speaker 2: maybe being dislodged or broken out.

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Speaker 1: Later on, the States speculated that Rooda Nathan's broken teeth

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Speaker 1: were responsible for the injury and the infection on ELA's hand.

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Speaker 1: But back to the immediate aftermath. At this point, the

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Speaker 1: room was not yet being treated as a crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Evidence was being contaminated or destroyed, and new injuries were

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Speaker 1: potentially being created by first responders and medical personnel that

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Speaker 1: added to the overall picture. At the autopsy, she was

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Speaker 1: pronounced dead Epitheesda North Hospital and then was taken to

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Speaker 1: the Hamilton County Coroner's office.

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Speaker 4: What they reported in the autopsy was that there was

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Speaker 4: Bluntfort's trauma and I think they said that there were

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Speaker 4: blows to the torso, the face, and the jaw.

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Speaker 1: She also tested positive for hepatitis B right.

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Speaker 5: She was actively infected with it.

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Speaker 1: Although we cannot be one hundred percent sure. This suggests

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Speaker 1: that she was infected with hepatitis B prior to the attack,

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Speaker 1: and that became pretty important later on. However, as soon

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Speaker 1: as her death was rolled a homicide, two thirty seven

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Speaker 1: was then considered a crime scene, where they discovered that

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Speaker 1: about five hundred dollars was missing, along with some jewelry,

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Speaker 1: allegedly including a pendant necklace that Rhoda's traveling companion, Elaine Shubb,

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Speaker 1: said that Roda had always worn. I know, you guys

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Speaker 1: had said that the bloody towels had been tossed, right,

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Speaker 1: So was there any other probative physical evidence at all.

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Speaker 4: So there were fingernails, scrapeigs, some hairs, things of that nature.

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Speaker 4: There was blood all over the room, so they scraped

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Speaker 4: it from all over the place, the television, the bed,

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Speaker 4: the table, the carpets, the walls, the doors, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: And there should have been direct evidence of whoever was

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Speaker 4: involved in this crime, because you were going in there

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Speaker 4: immediately after the killers.

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Speaker 1: DNA should have at least been under her fingernails. None

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Speaker 1: of it was a match for Elwood. But before any

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Speaker 1: of that was even tested, they started talking to staff

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Speaker 1: and hotel guests, and they were leaning towards the staffer

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Speaker 1: since there was no sign of forced entry. Oh you

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Speaker 1: know how sometimes they focused on the guy just because

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Speaker 1: they have a prior record. You think that's why they

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Speaker 1: focused on you.

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Speaker 3: I really can't say, because it was at least thirty

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Speaker 3: seven of the employees with criminal records, and some of

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Speaker 3: them worse than mine. From the general managerone down.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So there was thirty seven all right, Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: you know, more power to the hotel for giving guys

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Speaker 1: a second chance and women too. Right, So when did

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Speaker 1: you go in for your interview?

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Speaker 3: I think around eleven. I went up to be interviewed.

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Speaker 3: It was Sogeant Lily John Latt, and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 3: it was Stokes in there there at that time, and

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Speaker 3: they asked me what happened.

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Speaker 1: I wrote my statement, so you were free to go.

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Speaker 1: But eventually they came back to you, seized and search

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Speaker 1: your car, found or allegedly found items in your toolbox

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Speaker 1: that they thought were incriminating. But that didn't happen that

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Speaker 1: Saturday or even the next day.

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Speaker 3: Well, on the Sunday, I went to Lublin and was

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Speaker 3: at Earlene's house, and I had a guy named Jimmy

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Speaker 3: plus my radiate out seem the last person used my tub.

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Speaker 1: Bouts right, and what Jimmy saw or didn't see became

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Speaker 1: very important later on in your case. And we'll get

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Speaker 1: to that in a minute. So, Dave, what made them

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Speaker 1: focus on Elwood.

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Speaker 4: What ultimately got the police and the state to start

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Speaker 4: looking at Elwood, was that he had, as he mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 4: cut his hand that day on the dumpster and then

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Speaker 4: later when he kind of jammed it in the door,

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Speaker 4: and a couple days later went to the hospital because

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Speaker 4: it had gotten quite infected.

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Speaker 1: Since the victim had been beaten to death, one could

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Speaker 1: expect that the assailant's hand might have been injured, and

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Speaker 1: Elwood's infection and hospitalization drew unwanted attention to his coincidental

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Speaker 1: hand injury, so police spoke to his treating physician, a

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Speaker 1: doctor McDonough, and although this was a Strep A infection,

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Speaker 1: there was another bacteria present in the wound called icinella,

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Speaker 1: which is commonly found in human mouths. This spawned of

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Speaker 1: theory that the infection came from wrote in Nathan's teeth. However,

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Speaker 1: according to Elwood, he had licked his own wound soon

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Speaker 1: after his work related injury had occurred. Elwood saw testing

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Speaker 1: for akinella to prove his claim, but was told that

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Speaker 1: his heavy course of antibiotics would have already cleared up

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Speaker 1: any icinella in his own mouth. Further police interviews with

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Speaker 1: hotel staff only served to corroborate Elwood's alibi. However, only

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Speaker 1: Arlene Metcalf could give a solid time and place for Elwood.

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Speaker 1: At around seven point thirty, the belief time of the murder,

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Speaker 1: the pair had gone on break together. It appears the

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Speaker 1: police found this alibi too convenient and brought him in

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Speaker 1: again for questioning on September twelfth.

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Speaker 3: When They questioned me on the twelve. They didn't like

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Speaker 3: my attitude when God told him that you asked me

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Speaker 3: what idea that day? And I told you, And they say, what,

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Speaker 3: you had a master key? And I explained to them,

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Speaker 3: I say, every key in the hotel is a master key.

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Speaker 3: I say, guests don't know they mastered the keys.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so every key was the same for every room.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but they just didn't tell no what nuts. I

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Speaker 3: thought it was crazy when I first found out about it.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of funny to think about now thirty years later.

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Speaker 4: But they were all still metal plates for them to

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Speaker 4: cut new keys when a guest would leave with the

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Speaker 4: key or something like that.

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Speaker 5: They just didn't bother. Everything matched.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm certainly glad it's not the nineties anymore. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't get over that. So they already thought that

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Speaker 1: you were their guy, so this probably looked to them

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Speaker 1: like you were trying to deflect attention from yourself. Now.

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Speaker 1: They also brought in your wife, Yvonne, on the twelfth

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, on the way to the police station, they told

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Speaker 3: her say, well, by the way, you know your husband

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Speaker 3: was having an affair. She said, well, I knew he

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Speaker 3: wasn't coming home on time, she say, but all men

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Speaker 3: are dogs in a sense, and that just shut that up.

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Speaker 3: She one told me exactly what she told police, and

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Speaker 3: the end of that.

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Speaker 1: Comes, that's a pretty understanding person that you were married to.

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Speaker 3: But did weird talk about that later? We just get

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Speaker 3: through this. She stuck with me.

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Speaker 1: So they were probably telling her that to get her

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Speaker 1: to turn on you. Right, it's not you don't need

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Speaker 1: to be Columbo to figure this out. But Yvonne didn't bite.

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Speaker 1: So they seized your car and initially just found a

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Speaker 1: door chain that they later tried to say was some

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Speaker 1: sort of a weapon. Right, And we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in a bit. But then, if I'm understanding this correctly,

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Speaker 1: A day or so later, a Blue ash police officer

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Speaker 1: named Michael Bray claimed to have found miss Nathan's pendant

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Speaker 1: in your car. Am I getting this correct?

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Speaker 4: Can I take this because this is a part that

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Speaker 4: this is something I am really like.

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Speaker 5: This bugs me.

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Speaker 2: I wanted, Dave, I want to talk about Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So, so the story with the pendant. So the police

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Speaker 4: went to pawnshops and ostensibly couldn't find this piece of

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Speaker 4: jewelry anywhere. Then they took his car. They impounded it

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Speaker 4: on the twelve. They then had it in their possess

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Speaker 4: for forty eight hours before they took it to the

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Speaker 4: coroner's office, and multiple people searched the car for hours

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Speaker 4: and didn't find anything. And then after that one officer decides, well,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to go back and search again, I guess,

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Speaker 4: or search the one spot that you would think they

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Speaker 4: would want to look for evidence, which would be the trunk,

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Speaker 4: the space where someone might store something. And if Officer

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Speaker 4: Bray is to be believed, they never looked in the

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Speaker 4: trunk before. I don't know. But when this guy is

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Speaker 4: all by himself with no one to corroborate it, he

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Speaker 4: says that he went into the trunk of the car,

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Speaker 4: opened the toolbox, and there it was, just sitting there. Now,

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Speaker 4: did he take a picture of it in the car?

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 4: Did he take a picture of the trunk open with

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Speaker 4: the toolbox in it.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 4: He took a picture of the pendant in his hand

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Speaker 4: with the car in the background, and then told people,

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Speaker 4: look what I found in the car.

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Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Ohio Justice and

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Speaker 1: Policy Center, a nonprofit law firm that seeks justice for

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00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 1: people torectly impact it by Ohio's criminal legal system. OJPC

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00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 1: provides free legal services to currently and formally incarcerated people.

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00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 1: Through its Beyond Guilt Project, OJPC works to free over

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00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 1: punish people who have rehabilitated themselves. Ojpc's Second Chance clinics

325
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 1: help individuals with criminal records remove barriers to employment and

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00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 1: house it. Ojpc's Human Rights and Prison Project represents people

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Speaker 1: who face denial of medical care. In its twenty five

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00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 1: year history, OJPC has worked at the policy level and

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00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 1: won numerous victories in Ohio, including ending juvenile life without

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Speaker 1: parole and exempting seriously mentally ill people from the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: To learn more about Ohio Justice and Policy Center and

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00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 1: how you can support its mission, visit OHIOJPC dot org. That'shi,

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Speaker 1: IOJPC dot org. Ohio Justice and Policy Center. We don't

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Speaker 1: write people off.

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Speaker 4: Another officer flies up to New Jersey or New York

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Speaker 4: with the pendant to meet with Rooda Nathan's family, and

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Speaker 4: all of this is withheld from Melwood at the original trial.

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Speaker 4: But the family looks at it and goes, that's not it.

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Speaker 4: And then they tell the police officers look this pendant

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Speaker 4: though it's a really unique piece of jewelry was made

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Speaker 4: from some family rings, some heirlooms. And then they talk

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Speaker 4: to another family member who we'd just refer to as

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Speaker 4: Uncle Ira, who was Rhoda's brother in law, and he goes, no,

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Speaker 4: that's not correct. I have those family rings. This was

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Speaker 4: just bought in a jewelry store of Brooklyn. So there's

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Speaker 4: evidence that potentially this isn't even the right pendant. There's

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Speaker 4: evidence that it definitely wasn't the unique piece of jewelry

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Speaker 4: that the state says that it was. And there are

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Speaker 4: very very serious ques questions about whether this thing was

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Speaker 4: ever actually found in the car at all. None of

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Speaker 4: that was shared, none of that was provided.

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Speaker 1: So their big smoking gun turned out to be total

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Speaker 1: horseshit and they knew it. I mean, this has to

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Speaker 1: be why they didn't arrest you for over a year. Now.

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Speaker 1: There was one other item that we mentioned in your car,

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Speaker 1: the door chain. What's the story with that?

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Speaker 3: It was a door chain inside of my tub box,

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Speaker 3: and it's not no type of doorchain used in the hotel.

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Speaker 3: The hotail used a boar chain. And the first thing

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Speaker 3: I askeaid, What'd I do? Go out to my car

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Speaker 3: get a tool chain. I need something to whooped this

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Speaker 3: woman with. I say, doesn't it have some type of

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Speaker 3: blood or provensis or something on it? I said, come

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Speaker 3: on with the stop it.

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Speaker 1: So this freaking door chain wasn't even the type that

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Speaker 1: would have been available in the room if somebody even

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Speaker 1: wanted to use that as a weapon, which in itself

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Speaker 1: is ridiculous. This was just some random ass door chain

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Speaker 1: in your car. The whole theory is fucking ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: And that's not even the worst one.

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Speaker 4: One of their theories is they say that whoever it

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Speaker 4: was beat this woman to death, not just with their

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Speaker 4: hands and the chain, but then a walkie talkie and

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Speaker 4: then hit them with multiple objects. In fact, the police

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Speaker 4: officers for months were trying to send images to the

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Speaker 4: FBI to get them to confirm, like, hey, this looks

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Speaker 4: like it could be Elwood shoe, right, and they would

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Speaker 4: come back and be like, no, no, this is not consistent.

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Speaker 5: With Elwood shoe at all.

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Speaker 4: In fact, it looks like it could be X and

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Speaker 4: something that might implicate somebody else, And they'd be like,

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Speaker 4: let's try again, how about the walkie talkie, And they

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Speaker 4: finally got them to say something to the effect of

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Speaker 4: the bruising is potentially consistent with something of that shape,

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Speaker 4: so like a square or a rectangle, but that's as

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Speaker 4: close as they would get. And with that, the state

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Speaker 4: then completely distorted it into aha, a bruise and an

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Speaker 4: item that's so significantly tied together that it's essentially a fingerprint,

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Speaker 4: which is just a lie.

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Speaker 1: I mean, a walkie talkie. How many other hotel staffers

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Speaker 1: is probably haven't.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you mentioned that we have several departments. Everybody

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Speaker 3: have at walkie talkie. But that morning the police was

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Speaker 3: given information of two people leaving this Nathan's room, one

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Speaker 3: going left, one going right with a walkee Chlkie in

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Speaker 3: his hand, and to the day, I feel that's where

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Speaker 3: they got that theory of a walkie talkie. They never

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Speaker 3: went back to try to find out who these two

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Speaker 3: people was or where that walkie talkie is.

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Speaker 1: To the day, this is just one of many more

401
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Speaker 1: compelling leads that were flatly ignored by Blue Ash PD

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Speaker 1: in the Hamilton County Prosecutor's office. And we'll reveal more

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Speaker 1: of those leads later when we talk about the discovery

404
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 1: that happened in post conviction. It's mind boggling so instead

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Speaker 1: they focused on Elwood Jones, who had access to a

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Speaker 1: walkie talkie and a master key. But as we find out,

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Speaker 1: so did everyone else. He had a criminal record, so

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Speaker 1: did almost everyone else. And this theory was supported by

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Speaker 1: the presence of a bacteria in his injured hand commonly

410
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Speaker 1: founded you in mouse like canela, and then the pendant

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Speaker 1: which appears to have been planted, as well as not

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Speaker 1: even being the right freaking pendent. This is what they

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Speaker 1: went to a capitol trial with. And it appears that

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Speaker 1: even they believed so little in this theory that they

415
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Speaker 1: waited for over a year to arrest mister Elwood Jones.

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Speaker 3: That day when I was arrested at the two Blue

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Speaker 3: ass offices, Stokes and Lily, they put me in the

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Speaker 3: car to take me the District one police station to

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Speaker 3: take me in the back, and at that time they

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Speaker 3: show me this picture and say this is what we

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Speaker 3: found in your car. And I'm looking and I told me,

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Speaker 3: I don't know where did penman come from? And you

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Speaker 3: found it in there? You put it in there. At

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Speaker 3: that time, Stokes get up and go out, said to

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Speaker 3: do and talk on the phone, and he said he

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Speaker 3: didn't bite. I don't know what he meant by at

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Speaker 3: who he was talking to on the phone, he said

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Speaker 3: he didn't bite, And next I know they was taking

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Speaker 3: me on to the Justice and that they booked me in.

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Speaker 1: He didn't bite. Wow, I mean, it seems like they

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Speaker 1: thought their lie would make you cave and confess, And

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Speaker 1: it might have worked on a man who was actually guilty,

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Speaker 1: but it still wasn't you. And even with Jimmy or

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Speaker 1: a mechanic corroborated that this pandem was not in the

435
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: damn toolbox. Along with so much Brady material that we're

436
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: going to get to in a bit. The prosecutors Mark

437
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: Pete Meyer and Seth Tieger still went ahead to trial,

438
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: seeking the death penalty, by the way, on this bullshit

439
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: evidence in November of ninety six, in front of Judge

440
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: Ralph Winkler. And the case was purely circumstantial evidence.

441
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 4: So they say, but that's okay, because circumstantial evidence is

442
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 4: even better than direct.

443
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: Evidence, which no, well it is obviously not a third

444
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: grader can tell you that. But anyway, they presented their

445
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: theory that Elwood allegedly waited for a lane shove and

446
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: Joe Coplan to leave room to thirty seven before entering

447
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: being discovered by Rhoda Nathan, punching her teeth out and

448
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: fatally beating her to death, and finally stealing five hundred

449
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: dollars as well as jewelry, including this alleged signature pendant.

450
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: So what did they present to support this theory?

451
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 4: They told the jerry that Ellwood was in the hotel

452
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 4: that day, that he was on the second floor, that

453
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 4: he had a master key, and that they purportedly found

454
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 4: this pendant in his car, and that he had an

455
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 4: infection in his hand. And the narrative that the state

456
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 4: presented was that it was an Icinella Corridon's infection, and

457
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 4: in fact that's not what it was.

458
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 5: There happened to be Kinella in.

459
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: The cut right, It was a strip a infection.

460
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: And this doctor, doctor McDonough, who was a hand surgeon

461
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 4: with no expertise at all in microbiology or in infectious diseases,

462
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 4: opined that the only way that Ellwood could have gotten

463
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 4: this was by punching somebody in the mouth, which is

464
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 4: just objectively.

465
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,479
Speaker 1: False, but that's where the broken teeth come into it.

466
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: They also tried to draw connections between miss Nathan's injuries

467
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 1: and objects that might have been available to Elwood, but

468
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: really they were available to any hotel employee, and there

469
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: were dozens and dozens of them.

470
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 4: Their absolute junk forensics suggests that they were able to

471
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 4: match up one of the bruises with the bottom of

472
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 4: a walkie talkie and the scratches. The particular scratches on

473
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 4: the bottom of the walkie talkie can be found in

474
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 4: the bruises. It's completely fabricated. They took pictures of Miss

475
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 4: Nathan's body during the autopsy and effectively skewed the pictures

476
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 4: and admitted that they manipulated the pictures. They said in

477
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 4: order to match a scale, and they used items such

478
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 4: as the walkie talkie and made that the scale so

479
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 4: that when they were distorting the picture, they distorted it

480
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 4: to fit the size of the walkie talkie and what

481
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 4: they were actually told. After repeated attempts of submitting this

482
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 4: evidence to the FBI and the FBI coming back and saying, nose,

483
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: this is not consistent with this bruising pattern at all. Finally,

484
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 4: after manipulating the pictures, the FBI came back and said,

485
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 4: this is theoretically consistent with something sort of of that shape,

486
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 4: but they did not say, yes, we can match up

487
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 4: the scratches on the bottom of this wakie talkie so

488
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 4: that it's like a fingerprint.

489
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: They inexplicably then put four experts on the stand who

490
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: would not corroborate their nonsensical weapons theory. But the state

491
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: still had this random pendent that the jury was led

492
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: to believe was the real McCoy, as well as doctor

493
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: McDonald's erroneous testimony about Ikinella Ell. Would please tell me

494
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: that your attorneys presented something anything to combat McDonough.

495
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: I mean, did they The expert day had he couldn't

496
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: testify in person because he had some other arrangements, so

497
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 3: they did it by video.

498
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: The way it played out is you don't have any

499
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: way then once the state's expert testifies to call your

500
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: doctor and say, hey, this is what he just said.

501
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,239
Speaker 2: What's your answer to that?

502
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: So this whole video testimony was never going to work,

503
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: let's face it. And this expert was paid for, by

504
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: the way, which makes it even a little more insane.

505
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: So did they do anything else?

506
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: Julias Sanks was the leading attorney then, and he actually

507
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 3: said some about my criminal record when I've still was

508
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 3: lost to say I didn't even take the stand. Why

509
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 3: would you put that in there?

510
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: Ineffective assistance of counsel doesn't even begin to cover this.

511
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: So the I Cainela evidence and dependent both total horseship

512
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: were never successfully impeached. And then your own attorney brought

513
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: up your criminal record, leaving it wide open for the prosecutors.

514
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: The prosecutor say that I was the only employed with

515
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: a criminal record, And at that time I knew it

516
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 3: was some criminals in there. I didn't know as many

517
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 3: as I found out mater when I got the documents,

518
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 3: thirty seven people in there.

519
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not a misrepresentation that they the jury.

520
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: That's just a straight out lie, right, I mean, how

521
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: could they? How could the jury have ever gotten it

522
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: right when they're being led down this crazy.

523
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: Path doing post conviction a few affter Davids was taken

524
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 3: to the jury. They said they noticed that I had

525
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 3: a criminal record, so what make them think that I

526
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 3: didn't commit this crime? And they came back in there

527
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 3: and they said guilty and recommended death. Judge Winkler's got

528
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: ready to send this to me, asked me, did I

529
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: have anything to say? And I say I do? I say,

530
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: yesterday Johanna, I say, even you in this courtroom offered

531
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 3: me a man's laughter. I say, today, you want to

532
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: kill me, I said, you're telling me this is a

533
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: court My daily routine was get up in the morning

534
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: at four, take my shower where I took a bath

535
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: in myself until they changed over and put showers on

536
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: the range.

537
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: And when you say take a bath in yourself, what

538
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: do you mean by that?

539
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 3: I wash up in my saint.

540
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: Right, that's a bird bath, right, this bird bath.

541
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: Well that's the best you could do. I got them

542
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: washed up, and I saved my little prayer and I

543
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: prepair my day. Six o'clock I would come out. Can

544
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: you describe the cell small self? About eight by ten.

545
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: You've got a bed in there, sank a tilet you

546
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 3: can afford. You can have a TV typewriter in a radio,

547
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: and that's about it.

548
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: So you're pretty much living in a closet.

549
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: In the cave is a filthy cave.

550
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: And of the men that you serve time with in

551
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,239
Speaker 1: there was there one who made a you know, an

552
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: impression on you that that helped you get through this

553
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: incredible ordeal.

554
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: Well, yes, he's off death row now too. De Ambrosil

555
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: was best good friends.

556
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: We spoke with Joe on the show. Josie Ambrosio. What

557
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: an incredibly inspiring guy and what a horrible, horrible story.

558
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: But he's come through it and he seems to be

559
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: doing as well as he possibly could be doing under

560
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: the circumstances. So, Joe, if you're listening, we're thinking about

561
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: you and talking about you too. So how did you

562
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: find the strength, because I'm sure there are other guys

563
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: who just go crazy in that situation and lose their

564
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: mind and end up killing themselves or doing you know.

565
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: I've seen several guys on death ro commit suicide right

566
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: there in the same part with the three guys I

567
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 3: kept theirself and others. But I think what the main

568
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 3: thing W gave me scrapt I knew in my heart

569
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: I did nothing wrong. I lost the sister, I lost

570
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: my wife, I lost several friends, my mother passed, and

571
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: my father and all their uncles. And only thing that

572
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: gives me hope and has gave me is to clear

573
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 3: my name. And I could look up and tell my

574
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 3: mother she can rest in peace. I understand Miss Nathan

575
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: is dead and I'm sorry. I feel sorry for her family,

576
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 3: but I'm also a victim in this case, and I

577
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: was determined that I spent day in and day out

578
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: trying to prove my anderson. I wrote letters every day.

579
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: I had one thing on my plate is to get

580
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: my life back.

581
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: And now here you are.

582
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm still having got it fully back. That's

583
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: all I want is my life back, and give me

584
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 3: what little I had, and I'm happy and prosecuting them

585
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: don't want to do the right thing.

586
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: So tell us a bit about how you got here

587
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: and what's still left. Starting with your direct appeal they raised.

588
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: I think it was about I want to say about

589
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: thirty two heirs. Some was in effected system new council.

590
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: We were denied that all through state court. It wasn't

591
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: withholding evidence until we got in the federal courts Brady validation.

592
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: And I think that was about two thousand and five

593
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: when your case was moved to the federal Public Defenders.

594
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 3: They fell for a discovery in the federal courts and

595
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 3: granted me saying that the prosecutor's police department and any

596
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: agency who involved in this case had to turn over

597
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: their records. As I was going through it, I begin

598
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 3: to see things that I've never seen herd.

599
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: In the original discovery. I don't remember the exact number

600
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: of pages, like two hundred and eighty six pages, something

601
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: like that. I think there's over forty two hundred pages

602
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: that they got in federal habeas and discovery. The questionnaires

603
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: that were sent to all the hotel guests, and I

604
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: think there were sixteen or seventeen of them that had

605
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: i'll say good investigative leads.

606
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: The first thing I came across was the statement of

607
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: two hotel employees, Dmitz Williams and Norman Ryan told the

608
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 3: police they wouldness two guys coming out of that room,

609
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: a black guy and the white guy, one going left,

610
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 3: one going right. The black guy when he came out,

611
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 3: he had a radio in his head. He was going left.

612
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: They gave him a full description of what they had

613
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: on both of them, and they toldly ignored. And there's

614
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: nothing else in the files where the police did any

615
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: follow up. Even the prosecuted.

616
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 4: There were a ton of tidbits will say that they learned,

617
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 4: whether it was from interviewing staff about keys or things

618
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 4: like that, that they just never ever followed up on. Obviously,

619
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 4: the Anthony Lackey information Anthony Lackett was off on the

620
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 4: day that this happened, but a shuttle driver who drove

621
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: employees to and from an employee parking lot remember taking

622
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 4: him back to his car that morning, and when he

623
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 4: was interviewed by police, he denied being there. It was

624
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 4: also reported that later that day he and his girlfriend

625
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 4: went out shopping and he was suddenly flushed with cash,

626
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 4: which is significant because reportedly stolen from the hotel rooms

627
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 4: five hundred dollars in cash that was never recovered.

628
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 2: Oh and mister Lackey also had an extensive criminal record,

629
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: a violent records from assault of behavior in there.

630
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is what I meant earlier about more

631
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: compelling leads. This discovery also revealed that the Blue Ash

632
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: Police Department had gone to New York and New Jersey

633
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: and spoken with the family about the pendant, which unraveled

634
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: that lie as well. There was so much Brady material

635
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: with health here that it's hard to even keep track,

636
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: But there are two more that are huge.

637
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: The fact that wrote A. Nathan had hepatitis was not

638
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: disclosed pre trial.

639
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 4: Elwood knew that they had taken blood for test, but

640
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 4: they didn't tell him what they were testing it for.

641
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 4: And they didn't ever report back that he had a

642
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 4: negative hepatitis B result, where Rodeon Nathan had a positive result.

643
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 4: And that's really important because, I mean, the reason EMTs

644
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 4: wear rubber gloves is because the risk of infection from

645
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 4: hepatitis B because it is so infectious.

646
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: So while he could have given himself like canella from

647
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: licking his own injured hand, It's almost certain that Elwood

648
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: would have tested positive for hepatitis B had he been

649
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: the assailant. So the Blue Ash Police Department, Mark Pete Meyer,

650
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: Seth Tiger, they all had scientific evidence clearing Elwood all

651
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: the way back on September fifteenth, nineteen ninety four, when

652
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: it really counted. And here we are, almost thirty years later,

653
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: still trying to unravel this injustice. Oh wait, there's more.

654
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: I know you're probably going no.

655
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 4: No more.

656
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: I can't take it. I can't take it. But hang

657
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: in there. They had another lead before a trial from

658
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: a woman named Dolores Suggs, which didn't come to light,

659
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: probably because they kept it in the dark until decades later.

660
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 3: Yes, that was in two thousand and sixteen. I had

661
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 3: an email from Deloris Sugg's daughter Terror and she told

662
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: me that her mother told her about. She was in

663
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 3: jail and a woman named Linda Reed told her that

664
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 3: her husband had killed this woman and framed a black man.

665
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 4: Delores Sugs is somebody who spent a very short period

666
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 4: of time in the Hamilton County Justice Center in nineteen

667
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 4: ninety five, and she was in there with Linda Reid,

668
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 4: who confided to Dolores Suggs that Linda's husband, Earl, a white,

669
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 4: red haired man from Blue Ash, had confessed to killing

670
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 4: somebody in the Embassy Suites in Blue Ash and framing

671
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 4: a black man. And she asked Dolores to do something

672
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 4: about it when she got out, and Dolores was told

673
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 4: by the Blue Ash police this is a close case,

674
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 4: and even though she was reporting on a pair confession,

675
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 4: they just did nothing with it.

676
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, But I read that

677
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: Earle Read was quite cozy with the Blue Ash Police department.

678
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 4: He reportedly would get up in the morning and have

679
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 4: coffee with the Blue Ash Police department. And there were

680
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 4: a number of instances where I believe it's well documented

681
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 4: he abused Linda Read. And there is a narrative that's

682
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 4: part of the record here where severely beat her even

683
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 4: after they were divorced or separated, to the point that

684
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 4: she was in a medical facility and he was not

685
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 4: allowed to come and visit her anymore. Now, I want

686
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 4: to be very clear, we don't know whether Earle did it,

687
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 4: and I think that there are, as I said, a

688
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 4: number of other people in the records that are equally

689
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 4: or potentially more plausible than Earle. But there are other

690
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 4: facts that do kind of make the suggestion that Earle

691
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 4: was there. For example, Robin Budd was a witness who

692
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 4: said that the morning of the murder, at basically the

693
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 4: exact same time that the murder apparently took place, she

694
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 4: saw a man who sort of meets the Earl's description

695
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 4: bolt from the hotel, run across the parking lot and

696
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 4: into the woods in the same direction to where Earl

697
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 4: Reed's house was like half a mile away. But the

698
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 4: real significance of Earl Reid and the Dolores Suggs tip

699
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 4: isn't so much that, aha, we've now found the killer.

700
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 4: It's the blue Ash police apartment in the Hamilton County

701
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 4: Prosecutor's Office was so polluted by cognitive bias and confirmation

702
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 4: bias and tunnel vision that They didn't even bother to

703
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 4: look into this. Before Elwood had been convicted, they had

704
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 4: him in custody and they just went someone confessed to this, whatever,

705
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: we've got our man, and that's true. Throughout there are

706
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 4: hundreds of pages of records where people are identifying other

707
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 4: potential suspects. Many of those records are from independent sources

708
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 4: that fit together with each other and really kind of

709
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 4: tell a narrative that it's like, gosh, I think that

710
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 4: is a person that really could have been and it's

711
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 4: definitely not Elwood, and they conceded they never looked at it.

712
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 4: The Bluish Police par never looked into any of it.

713
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: All of this information, the bevy of alternative and more

714
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: likely suspects, including Earl Reid, Anthony Lackey, these two mystery men,

715
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: as well as Dependent not being dependent, never mind it

716
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: likely being a totally fabricated piece of evidence in the

717
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: first place, and the irreconcilable hepatitis B test results. This

718
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: was all information that they had at the time of trial.

719
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: It was not shared with the defense. However, from a

720
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: post conviction litigation standpoint, the problem with these discoveries is

721
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: that they happened over time and were never litigated as

722
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: a whole, so the twenty nineteen motion for a new

723
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: trial was based solely on the alleged Earl Reid confession.

724
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: But eventually Judge Winkler's successor, Judge Etna Cooper, granted a hearing.

725
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: Jay was already involved, and then came Dave Hein from Vori's,

726
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: one of the most widely respected law firms in the country.

727
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 4: So Jay was that at that point, working with the

728
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: Federal Public Defenders, they filed the motion for a new trial.

729
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 4: Judge Cooper said, yep, we're going to give you a

730
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 4: hearing on it.

731
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: And finally all this Brady material would be heard altogether. Now,

732
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: an election in twenty twenty brought in Judge Wendy Cross,

733
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 1: and oddly enough, almost thirty years later, Elwood was facing

734
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: Seth Tiger again. What stuck out the most about this.

735
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: Hearing standing up in a courtroom and calling a prosecutor

736
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: by name Mark Pete Meyer a liar, outright line to

737
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: put somebody on death row. That doesn't happen every day,

738
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 2: no way. It really got under Seth Tiger's skin. It

739
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: really bothered him, and I'm kind of glad it did.

740
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: But it was for the wrong reason. He didn't have

741
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 2: the ability to defend his his friend. And I think

742
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: to me, what was overall remarkable about it the lack

743
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: of any meaningful response from the prosecutor from a litigation standpoint.

744
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 2: We put on doctor Burdett to talk about the hepatitis.

745
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: We were specifically told by the judge before the hearing started,

746
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 2: we are not going to relitigate ikinella. Fine. The first

747
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: question out of the prosecutor's mouth cross examining doctor Burdett

748
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: was about ikinella. We were doing literally almost doing somersaults

749
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: at the table when he opened the door, because David

750
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: prepared the witness and drove a truck through that door

751
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 2: after that, and they put on no meaningful rebuttal to

752
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 2: anything that we put on. They didn't have anybody come

753
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: in and say, hey, the blue ash investigation was fine.

754
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: They didn't have anybody come in and say, oh, doctor

755
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: Burdet's wrong. Hepatitis bees not that infectious. They did nothing,

756
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: And I think it's because of the mindset in Hamilton

757
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: County has been for so long. We don't need to

758
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 2: the judge's going to give it to us. Judge Winkler

759
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: was a former prosecutor. Judge Winkler's sons were both prosecutors.

760
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: Now they're judges. Prosecutors in robes is the daily norm

761
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: down here for us. They didn't put on anything to

762
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 2: justify why he should not get a new trial.

763
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: And so on December twentieth, twenty twenty two, Elwood who

764
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: were finally granted a new trial, and amazingly he got

765
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: a bond set and were released on January fourteenth of

766
00:41:59,080 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three.

767
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 3: I had been turned down so many times in the

768
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 3: court that I was totally lost for words that day.

769
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 3: It's the thing about death penalty cases. People just don't

770
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: want to touch them or do the right thing. I

771
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: was totally shocked, but I was so thankful I got out.

772
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 3: I did the two things I said I was going

773
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 3: to do. I was going to kiss the ground, and

774
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: I went to the cemetery to see my mother and

775
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: tell us that you rest of peace. So and from

776
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: that day, I'm still frightened.

777
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 4: The state is kind of doing everything that they can

778
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 4: at this point too. It seems like to ignore reality.

779
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 4: They've filed a petition for rid of prohibition, multiple appeals

780
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 4: they've all been denied. It seems like they're doing everything

781
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 4: they can to avoid having any kind of honest evaluation

782
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 4: of the actual evidence, and they still want to litigate

783
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 4: this and hold on to the conviction that they obtained

784
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 4: in the nineties with only a tiny sliver of the evidence.

785
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: And I understand that if this does go to TRILI,

786
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: you'll be facing Mark Pete Myer and Seth Tiger again,

787
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: potentially in February twenty twenty four. So despite the obvious

788
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: and sane choice in front of them, this is not

789
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: one hundred percent over. Is there anything our audience can

790
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: do to help.

791
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: Mark Pete Prior refers to people who support Elwood as his.

792
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: Groupies, Well, sign me up for that.

793
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll wear that badge. I think awareness let Hamley

794
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: County Prosecutor's office know that it's being watched, and Melissa

795
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 2: Powers is now the Hamley County Prosecutor. Maybe they can

796
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: reach out to her by email, letter, call and leave

797
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: a message and follow up and ask her what she's

798
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: going to do to write this wrong. Maybe if she

799
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: knows people are watching and people have an interest, that

800
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: she can do the right thing and dismiss it.

801
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: So we'll have action steps of the bio. And now

802
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: that brings us to my favorite part of the show,

803
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: closing arguments. It works like this, I'm going to thank

804
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: each of you again for sharing this incredible, incredible story,

805
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to kick back in my chair,

806
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, and just

807
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: listen to anything else you have to say. So, Dave,

808
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: why don't you go first? Then Jay and then ell

809
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: would take us off into the sunset.

810
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 4: It's important that people understand that although Ellwood has very

811
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 4: graciously given Jay and I a lot of credit for this,

812
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 4: there are a lot of.

813
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 5: People who have been involved over the years.

814
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 4: There's an entire unit of people at the Federal Public

815
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 4: Defender's Office, the Capitol Habeas unit from Aaron Barnhart, Bridget Kennedy,

816
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 4: tc Chansky. I have two colleagues at VORICE, Emily Saint

817
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 4: Cyr and Zach Hollinger. You've got Dolores Suggs and Tierra Suggs,

818
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 4: two experts, Doctor Burdett and Beth Moore. And you've got

819
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 4: Judge Cross, who, frankly, I think a different judge in

820
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 4: this situation would have caved to the political pressure. You

821
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 4: had the prosecutor going on local radio stations before a

822
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 4: decision had been made, calling her a crazy liberal judge, etc.

823
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 5: Etc.

824
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 4: And trying to make this a political issue. And I

825
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 4: think she sat there and just looked at the evidence

826
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 4: and said, politics be damned. I need to make the

827
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 4: decision that is just. And finally, to the prosecutors, I'm

828
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 4: a little bit more cautiously optimistic that the new prosecutor

829
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 4: will take a look at this.

830
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 5: Please take a look at this.

831
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: Let's have a conversation, let's talk about the evidence, because

832
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 4: there's absolutely no reason to be having a second trial.

833
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 2: I won't repeat a lot of what Dave said because

834
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: I agree with it, but I think the takeaway from this,

835
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: I think you're going to find this as a common

836
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: thread through the work that you do. You can guarantee

837
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: that you will never commit a crime. You can in

838
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: no way guarantee you won't be accused of committing a crime.

839
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: And when you're accused and it's your day in the box,

840
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 2: you want the system to work the way the system

841
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: is supposed to work. You want people to follow the rules.

842
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: You want police to do the investigation and prosecutors to

843
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: do their job and disclose all the evidence. And right

844
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: now in Hamilton County, honestly, in general terms, that doesn't happen.

845
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: And so a lot of people can look at this

846
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: particular case or any of the other cases that I

847
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: know you've you've profiled, and go, well, that would never

848
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: happen to me. Don't count on it because you cannot

849
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: guarantee you won't be accused someday. Urge people to get involved,

850
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: don't stay silent, and speak up.

851
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 3: I'm very thankful for everyone who took their time, including you,

852
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 3: to help add this and I'm hoping that I could

853
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 3: have my little life back. And I would like to

854
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 3: see the prosecutors be held accountable and two the whole

855
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: prosecutors accountable for what they do to take in the

856
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 3: man's life a woman's life. They gonna continue that need

857
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 3: to change if you're going to bring change this system.

858
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I want to

859
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor hall Any, Chelsea, Maia Robinson,

860
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: Jeff Clyburn and Kevin Warns. The music in this production

861
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

862
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

863
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at

864
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction as well as at Lava for Good. On

865
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on Instagram

866
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: at it's Jason Vlahm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of

867
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: Lava for Good podcasts and association with Signal Company Number

868
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: one