1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: What's going on? Just talk to me, swabey, I'm talking 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: to you. What is going on. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 2: I'm cool. 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: Forget that Maggie in the room. Forget that Maggie. 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 2: I'm cool. I'm serious, I'm cool. 6 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, just tell me what just happened. 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: I never thought to be locked up in a room 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: like this. Again, I'm cool. 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: I know you're cool, sweetie, You're out of prison. 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: It had a little flashback. Okay, it's just like it's 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: too real. It's too real. It's like, damn. The reality 12 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: is I had a life sentence. 13 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 3: There's no parole in the state of Pennsylvania for life 14 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 3: is when you a lifer, then they tell you where 15 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 3: do you want your body sent to when you die? 16 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 3: So you got to mentally be paid for the words. 17 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 2: But I made it. I made it out, So I'm good. 18 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: You're making me cry. Actually, the fact that you're having 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: this reaction to this, I mean, it's just a studio. 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: It's a dark, little, you know, constructed studio, and like 21 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: the both of us are crying about a freaking studio. 22 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 3: Well, to most people, it's probably a studio. What to 23 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 3: me is that it's a space where I spent portion 24 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: of my life. 25 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 4: In the thing is where you don't know Swavee, is 26 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 4: that it was actually in this room, right in this 27 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 4: studio where you would call and I'd come running in 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 4: and we'd record, you know, I'd hold the phone up here, 29 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 4: right here. So it was in this room that I 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 4: had hundreds of phone calls with you. 31 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: Wow, I know that. 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: From Philturo Media and PRX. It's l USA. I'm Aria Noofosa. 33 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: Today swave a story about juveniles sentenced to die in prison, 34 00:01:52,640 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: told through one man's journey. Da Luis Suave Gonzalez was 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: sentenced to mandatory life in prison without parole for a 36 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: crime committed when he was seventeen years old. He was 37 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: found guilty of first degree homicide. Today we introduce you 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: to Futuro Studio's newest podcast. It's a story of incarceration, 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: redemption and the very special nearly three decade long relationship 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: between a man convicted of murder and a journalist me 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 1: and for this journey, producer Maggie Freeling is going to 42 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: accompany me, and Maggie's right here in the studio with me. 43 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: And just a warning that this episode contained some strong 44 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: language that is not bleeped and some brief references to 45 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: sexual violence. 46 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 5: So, Maria, back in nineteen ninety three when you and 47 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 5: Swabe first met, who were you all right? 48 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: So I was much younger, I was recently married. I 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: was a budding national correspondent at NPR. I'm Maria Josa Reporting, 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: and I was basically creating a name for myself and 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: doing you know, people called it urban reporting, but I 52 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: was trying to kind of correct the narrative of what 53 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: was happening in these communities that were really overlooked. 54 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 5: So today you're the host of the public radio show 55 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 5: Latino USA, and you're a former CNN and PBS correspondent, 56 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 5: and in some ways Suave kind of knew you before 57 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 5: you ever met. 58 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: The only station that will come on was MPR Radio 59 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: and Power ninety. 60 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: Nine Phileast Power ninety nine. 61 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 3: So I listened to that radio life for two years 62 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: every day, six o'clock in the morning. 63 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: So one day I heard this lady nbrs Marie and 64 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: a host of reports, and I was like, oh, they 65 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 2: got a Latina on the radio. 66 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: So they had a graduation coming up, and the old principal, 67 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: he had said, we need somebody to come speak as 68 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: the guest speaking. 69 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: So I said, look, I just heard this lady on 70 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: the radio. 71 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 3: I think she's the first Latina on NPR that I 72 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: need to bring her up here. She's about education. They 73 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: contacted her, they brought her up here. I told the prison, 74 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 3: but I need to go. I got to meet this lady, right. 75 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 3: He was like wow, I said, because I hear her 76 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: every morning. I got to see if she's six foot 77 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 3: a five foot, and at that time she was a 78 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 3: little shorter. 79 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 5: So you give the graduation talk at Greaterford Prison and 80 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,559 Speaker 5: then save walks up to you a half smoked joint 81 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 5: still in his pocket. 82 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: I remember him just saying I'm from New York and 83 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, what's up? He said, So I'm 84 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: in here for life. I'm in here for life. What 85 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: should I do? What can I do? And I'm like, oh, wow, 86 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a source inside of prison. I'm going 87 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: to have somebody who I mean, sadly, the truth is, 88 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: it's going to be here for the rest of his life. 89 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: But I'm going to have some But who's going to 90 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: be able to tell me what's going on in a 91 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: maximum security men's prison. I don't know what I'm going 92 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: to do with it. I don't know if there's going 93 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: to be a story here for me, but at least 94 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: I've got a source. And I was doing a story 95 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: about how jail had become a rite of passage for 96 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: men of all races. 97 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 5: It was the first story you did on Swave in 98 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 5: the nineties. And you call him by his first name. 99 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: David is a member of a prison group called Lifers Incorporated. 100 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 3: And attention to me was the place where you become 101 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: a man, get big couple of little weight, come back 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: out the woman's wanting. 103 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 6: This is Ben and Dale. Get a couple of tattoos. 104 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 6: That's the way I looked at it. 105 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: Now, David will be a prisoner for the rest of 106 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: his life. So during our very first meeting, I said 107 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: to him, well, if you're in here for life, you 108 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: have to be a source. You have to tell me 109 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: what's going on. 110 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: But the very last word, she said, you will become 111 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 3: the voice for the voiceless. 112 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: I was like, dang, well, I'm letting this lady messed 113 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: my heart up. That's what I said. 114 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 6: She's messing up my heart. 115 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: She was on boy with what she was saying. 116 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 5: Suave says he flushed his weed after that meeting. Until then, 117 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 5: he kept doing and selling drugs in prison, just like 118 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 5: he had on the outside. A Maria, you and Swave 119 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 5: kept in touch over the years. 120 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: Hey, Swabe, is it okay if I record this conversation? 121 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 7: Oh? Absolutely? 122 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: I guess they record every single phone call that that 123 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: you ever make. 124 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 7: Right. 125 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 5: For more than two decades, you took phone calls from Swave, 126 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 5: You wrote letters and sent cards. 127 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: So listen, we're recording now. I'm actually eating my breakfast 128 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: because I haven't eaten all morning. But what was your 129 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: day like today? 130 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 7: It was good. I went out to the yard seven 131 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 7: o'clock in the morning. 132 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 5: Okay, So I want to step back for a second. 133 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 5: For the last several years, I was one of Maria's 134 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 5: producers on her public radio show. But because of what's 135 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 5: about to happen in this story, for the last two years, 136 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 5: I've been sorting through hundreds of phone calls and letters 137 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 5: between her and Swave. I got to know both of 138 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 5: them pretty well. 139 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: Why are you working out so hard right now? 140 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 7: Well, Pritty, I've started working out because health issues. A 141 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 7: friend of mine enlightened and I said, let me try that, 142 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 7: and I liked it. 143 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 5: I've lost a couple of pounds, and Maria, you also 144 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 5: visited and recorded Swavee in prison three two two. 145 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: This is C block person. 146 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 6: Sir Swabe is an europe Yeah, he's on block. 147 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,119 Speaker 1: So Suave. When you first got here in nineteen eighty 148 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: eight being sentenced to life, what were you thinking then? 149 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: As the juvenile at the time, it didn't mean nothing. 150 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: You know, It hit me almost ten years later that 151 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: I had a life sensus that I'm gonna die in prison. 152 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: That's when it hit me, because obviously literate, I really 153 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: didn't understand the process. 154 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 5: This is Maria and a producer talking to Suave during 155 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 5: a visit to Graterford Prison in twenty fourteen. 156 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: I learned how to read and write to write Maria 157 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 2: from prison. 158 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: Just so we're clear, you're saying that you had been 159 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: raised in the United States of America, going to school. 160 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: You're saying you did not know how to read or write. No, 161 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to mean you knew something you 162 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: knew No. 163 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: I knew how to write my name, and I came 164 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: to prison. I knew how to write my name. 165 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 3: That's it took me seven times to get a ged. 166 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 3: It's almost six years and in my seventh tild I 167 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 3: got it. Once I got that college program became available, 168 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: I signed up. 169 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 5: But before all of this, Suave says he was on 170 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 5: a death mission. 171 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 3: I can honestly tell you today that if I would 172 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 3: have never met Maria, I probably would have been dead 173 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 3: in prison, probably would have been. 174 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: He was one of the guys in the prison who 175 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: is basically wreaking a bit of havoc, you know, and 176 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: he's talked about it now, having just really not appreciating life. 177 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: I came in with an IQ for fifty six. 178 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: The State of New York on paper said mister Gonzales 179 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 3: is mentally retarding. 180 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: That's what they said on paper, and I believe that 181 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: for many years. 182 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: So everything I did and my life was based I 183 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: don't retarded anyway, who cares anything. I wish I would 184 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 3: have met her when I was home, and she would 185 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: have told me the words, so you could be the 186 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 3: voice for somebody, for the voiceless. If you asked me 187 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 3: who's your heroes, I would say my mother, my Red. 188 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 2: And God. 189 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 5: But this wasn't the traditional journalist source relationship. I mean, 190 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 5: there were the Christmas. 191 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: Car she sent Christmas Cause, and she sent calls, and. 192 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 5: She wrote Maria. Do journalists send their sources Christmas cards? 193 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: So I actually think that this is this is a 194 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: much broader question for me. To me, the role of 195 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: the journalist is not only to uncover, you know, these stories, 196 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: but actually there is a tool that we as journalists 197 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: can use, which is our humanity. That if you give humanity, 198 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: you're going to get it back. And I guess I 199 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: kind of intuitively understood what it means to get a 200 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: Christmas card. And I'm a Christmas card lady. I mean 201 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: I learned that from my mom. 202 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 5: Why did you stay in touch with him? 203 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: If I wasn't going to be reporting on him? 204 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 5: Like why did you care if he talk to you 205 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 5: or not? There's so many people you meet and you 206 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 5: could stay in touch with Why Suave in particular? 207 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: That's an interesting question. I mean, I guess in the 208 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: of my mind, I always wondered, is something in a 209 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: happen at Greater for Prison where there's going to be 210 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: some kind of a riot or something, and I'm going 211 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: to be the one that's like, Okay, I have this source, 212 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: you know. And the way we spoke was like you're 213 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: you know, you're on the inside. Be my eyes and 214 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: ears letting you know I haven't forgotten about you as 215 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: a human being and as a source. 216 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 5: But at a certain point you actually start talking to 217 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 5: Swave about your own life. And then this is when 218 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 5: you even said you first felt like you crossed a line. 219 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 5: And so do you think at that point you were 220 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 5: feeling he was more than just a source? 221 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: H I don't know. I mean, in some ways, that's 222 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: a really fascinating question. I even remember it was. I 223 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: was standing by my little succulent garden on my windows 224 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: and Suave called and I was like, A I was 225 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: a I mean, I was an emotional basket case. You know, 226 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: my father, my cousin, you know, my best friend, they 227 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: all died all around the same time, in the same year. 228 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 5: Right, and so this was twenty fifteen, the year all 229 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 5: this happened. 230 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: So I just remember, Oh my god, I remember that 231 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: I started crying. But I guess he asked, you know 232 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: how you're doing, and I said, well, truth be told, 233 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: this is a really difficult time. And you know, I 234 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: was really just an emotional rag. I remember kind of 235 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: hanging up and just being like, God, what kind of 236 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: an asshole are you? 237 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 8: Like? Uh? 238 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: In other words, what I'm trying to tell you is 239 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: this definitely stood out it as a conversation where I 240 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: was like, what just happened here? Like this feels really weird. 241 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 5: That you told Swabi about your life. 242 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: Clatter, and that I was telling him about suffering. This 243 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: man is behind prison bars for life and I'm knowing 244 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: about my suffering. Please give me a break, like, how 245 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: dare you? And the next thing I knew, I get 246 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: this letter from Swab and I open it up and 247 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: it's a card and it's signed by I don't know, 248 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: like twenty five men. You know, Dear Maria, keep your 249 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: spirits up now. All you've got all these men who 250 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: are wearing fucking jumpsuits, you know, and living in little 251 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: cells and they're writing. 252 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 7: You a note. 253 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: That card. I put it on my succulent garden and 254 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: I would look at it. I would look it in 255 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 1: I just. 256 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 3: Ugh not everybody in prison has a relationship with somebody. 257 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: For twenty something years that when you call always took 258 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: your phone calls. 259 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 7: You know. 260 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 3: The reality is when you in prison, people forget about you. 261 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: Family members forget about you. They the first ones. 262 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: I got a twin system, and my twin sisters never 263 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: said your birthday called and yes, I was impressed. 264 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 5: We'll be right back. 265 00:14:45,800 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 8: Oh, oh, we're back. 266 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 5: And when we left off, Suave had been in prison 267 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 5: for nearly thirty years of his life, incarcerated at age seventeen. 268 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 5: And to understand how Suave and other kids got put 269 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 5: away for life, we need to go back back to 270 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 5: the nineteen eighties. Chains and medallions, kangle Hats, Grandmaster Flash Africa, 271 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 5: Bambada and Run DMC blasting on the radio, and a 272 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 5: crime wave exacerbated by the crack epidemic hit cities across 273 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 5: the country. 274 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: Wreck is now sweeping mule. 275 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 4: Justice Apartment officials now say there is a direct link 276 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 4: between crime and cocaine. 277 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 9: Evidence of heavy money and heavy violent drug traffic is 278 00:15:59,560 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 9: all around. 279 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 5: Caught up in the crosshairs were juveniles, children and teenagers 280 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 5: living in low income neighborhoods, dodging daily violence. Go game 281 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 5: things are the global model for these children and dismaybod. 282 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 4: Kids as young as twelve years old Carrie Beepers. They're 283 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 4: connected to drug dealers with mobile phones who call them 284 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 4: to make deliveries of crack cocaine. 285 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 5: So politicians in the eighties under the Reagan administration wanted 286 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 5: to look like they were doing something about crime. So 287 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 5: they tightened sentencing laws in two ways that really matter 288 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 5: for us. First, some state legislators made it legal to 289 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 5: prosecute children as adults. The execution of these policies disproportionately 290 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 5: affected kids of color. And then Congress passed mandatory minimum 291 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 5: sentencing for a whole bunch of crimes at the federal level, 292 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 5: and many states followed suit. 293 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: That meant that you committed such in such a crime, 294 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: this crime falls under the you know crime Code abc 295 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: D number five four six two one, and therefore you 296 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: will be sentenced to a minimum of ten years non negotiable. 297 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: So judges that used to be able to look at 298 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: a particular crime look at the person and say, you know, 299 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you another shot. This is your 300 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: first crime, or maybe it's your second time. 301 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: You know. 302 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: No, Now there were mandatory minimums. 303 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 5: By the nineties. These young kids committing crimes were given 304 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 5: a name, and it caught on across political parties, including 305 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 5: politicians like Hillary Clinton. 306 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 7: Super predators, no conscience, no empathy. 307 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 5: Tens of thousands of them, and Joe Biden. 308 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 8: Or out of. 309 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 7: Wedlock, without parents, without supervision, without any structure, without any 310 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 7: conscience developing. 311 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: And all of this was really based on this quote 312 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: unquote perceived menace of young men of color. This was 313 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: very racially motivated. Black men, Latino men were they were 314 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: now labeled the super predators. And there was an added element, 315 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: which is, we're going to treat them like adults. They're 316 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: so scary. The crimes that they're committing are so scary 317 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: that we've got to treat them like adults. You could 318 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: be as young as eleven years old and committed a 319 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: murder and you would be treated the same as if 320 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: you were forty years old, and that's just shocking. 321 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 5: These harsh sentences helped drive the mass incarceration crisis that 322 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 5: we see today. And so in nineteen eighty six, at seventeen, 323 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 5: Save was charged with first degree homicide and was sentenced 324 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 5: to the mandatory minimum of life without parole. And for decades, Maria, 325 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 5: this is all you knew about Swave. And I'm wondering why, 326 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 5: for all of these years didn't you ask Suave what 327 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 5: his crime was? 328 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 8: I don't. 329 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that it's hard for people to 330 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: kind of get that into their heads. It's like, hey, Maggie, 331 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: what's the worst thing you ever did in your life. 332 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: People on the outside are obsessed with the crime, people 333 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: on the inside are figuring out how to live. 334 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 5: So all you knew was he's in for homicide. 335 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: What I knew was a juvenile was murdered by another juvenile, 336 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: and that Swave was in for life, and that it 337 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: was a horrible tragedy. That child is never coming back. 338 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why I think Suave ended 339 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: up actually trusting me all of these years was because 340 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: the code of prison is that you don't spend all 341 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: your time talking about that. 342 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 5: Years go by, and then on June twenty fifth, twenty twelve, 343 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 5: everything changed for juvenile lifers. 344 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: These ten nine six four six Miller versus Alabama. 345 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 5: The Supreme Court made a ruling you can't sentence kids 346 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 5: to mandatory life without parole. Their brains are different and 347 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 5: they can't be held responsible the way adults are. 348 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: WHOA, this is crazy that the Supreme Court just said 349 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: this can no longer happen. And of course the question was, 350 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: so what does this mean for you? Swab it, and 351 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: it was just not clear. 352 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 5: The Supreme Court decision did not say anything about what 353 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 5: should happen to the thousands of lifers already in prison 354 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 5: for crimes they committed as kids. But it did bring hope. 355 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 7: I can't even sleep I haven't had a good, nice 356 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 7: seat since twenty twelve because we all know that technically 357 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 7: the Howling us on day said that it no longer 358 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 7: is Valley. 359 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 5: Right because states like Pennsylvania actually resisted applying this. You know, 360 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 5: there was a lot of challenges popping up across the country. 361 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 5: So then in twenty fourteen we get Montgomery versus Louisiana. 362 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: Right, So basically Montgomery versus Louisiana, it's like the next 363 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: step in the Supreme Court case, what about all the 364 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: juveniles who are already in prison, sentenced to life without parole? 365 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: What do we do with them? 366 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 5: The case is named after seventy three year old Henry Montgomery. 367 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 5: Henry Montgomery had been incarcerated at Angola, the infamous Louisiana 368 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 5: State Penitentiary, since nineteen sixty three, when he was seventeen years. 369 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: Old, so he petitions the Supreme Court. Basically, his case 370 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: is saying he's a model member of the prison community, 371 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: and so his lawyers asked the court to make life 372 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: without parole unconstitutional for juveniles who are already in prison, 373 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: and so make it apply retroactively to people just like 374 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: him and like Suave. 375 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 5: And so the Montgomery decision comes down in twenty sixteen. 376 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: They come out with a decision that says, we want 377 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: to reopen these cases, these kids who have been sentenced 378 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: to life without parole as children who may now be 379 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: grown men. Those cases need to be looked at again. 380 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: And it was just like, oh my god, what just happened. 381 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 7: Everybody won't crazy here, I'm happy. I'm sure where all 382 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 7: my shoulders. I know we're going to turn down here, 383 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 7: but we right there. We ended line slowly but surely. 384 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 9: Inmates sentenced to life without parole for crimes they committed 385 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 9: as juveniles are getting a second shot. It's all because 386 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 9: of a Supreme Court ruling that is having a big 387 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 9: impact right here in our area. 388 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 5: And so during this time, there were a lot of questions. 389 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 5: Most juveniles serving life without parole were convicted of homicide 390 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 5: or violent crimes. How would people respond to them being 391 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 5: released back to the community, even if they had reformed, 392 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 5: Would they be able to remain out of trouble? Would 393 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 5: they adjust to life outside when they were always expected 394 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 5: to die in prison? How would they start over. 395 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 7: I know there's one guy that's been here sixty five years. 396 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 7: He's been entailed sixty five years if he's fifteen, and 397 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 7: all he knows is prison, don't know nothing about the world, 398 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 7: don't know how to use a fall that they've got 399 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 7: on the bus to call your family. So we're talking 400 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 7: about people that could potentially be leaving person. How you 401 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 7: going to deal with them? How you going to integrate 402 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 7: somebody back into a community. There's been about the community 403 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 7: for forty five years, fifty years, sixty years. 404 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: This is a call from a state correctional inspecation credit 405 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 1: Ford Swabi. Hi, you called and you said you had 406 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: some news yesterday, and then I didn't hear from you. 407 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: So what's going on? 408 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 7: Oh but a lot. I'm still alive. I'm still kicking it. 409 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: That's the best news. 410 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 7: Was razy. Hell No, I just wanted to involve you 411 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 7: that Friday. That's Friday. They just granted the first full 412 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 7: juvenile lifers parole. 413 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: Wow. 414 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 5: Exclusive, the first juvenile lifer in Philadelphia released from prison 415 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 5: after spending forty three years behind bars. There was now 416 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 5: a precedent four men who'd been given mandatory life sentences 417 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 5: as kids. They had their cases reopened and they've been 418 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 5: re sentenced and released on parole. But there was no 419 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 5: guarantee this happened for Suave. The Supreme Court ruling didn't 420 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 5: say life sentences weren't okay. It just said if a 421 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 5: life sentence was the mandatory sentence when it was handed 422 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 5: down to you as a kid, then your sentence needed 423 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 5: a second look. Savey could still be evaluated by the 424 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 5: judge and re sentenced to life again, but he needed 425 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 5: a court date to know, and months were passing and 426 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 5: he was watching other juvenile lifers get released. 427 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 10: It's a happy day for Heywood, red Dog. 428 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 5: For now I know what Philadelphia man is free today 429 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 5: after spending nearly fifty. 430 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 9: Years behind Barnes for his part in a crime he 431 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 9: committed as a teenager. 432 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 5: Okay, here we go, and so twenty sixteen turns into 433 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 5: twenty seventeen. 434 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 7: Swave, oh the morning, and I'll give you the day 435 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 7: with the town would the up mom of town down? 436 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 7: Then I have man, I should have been. 437 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: What do you think is behind the reason why they're, 438 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, not getting to your case. 439 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 7: Well, think what's happening is that they're saying that it 440 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 7: takes to come because I have too much of certific 441 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 7: year is too mny coat with that. They have to 442 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 7: vote and investigate me, showing they they will real poll. 443 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: Okay, wait a second, Wait a second, are you saying 444 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: that you're having to stay in longer in prison because 445 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: of the fact that you've done so many good things 446 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: in your time in prison and they have to go 447 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: They have to make sure it's true. So your file 448 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: is bigger and that's why it's taking longer. Oh my god, 449 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: this is what all right, Well, this is the first 450 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: time in a while that I've heard you like really frustrated. 451 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 7: It's just if you get a little while all home 452 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 7: crazy when you see your god, it just set hands 453 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 7: for twenty five years plenty amble and don't have nothing 454 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 7: going to quote getting reset it and see you for hope. 455 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 7: You know in my mind, you know what I keep 456 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 7: telling me, what are these jewses wanna go out and 457 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 7: mess up? And then we all still He's gonna pay 458 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 7: for it? 459 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: Oh, because you're afraid that something's gonna happen that's gonna 460 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: make this all go away, Maria. 461 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 7: And tech this out. You cannot let a whole bunch 462 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 7: of guys out. They haven't been to treat me. They 463 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 7: haven't had mehing but half on basketball straight home. You 464 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 7: can't do that, that's right, putting me in the jungle. 465 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 7: You know you're telling me that because I got over 466 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 7: three hundred certificates, did you need to investigate all of them? 467 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 8: No? 468 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 7: Now, come on, I'm not buying. I'm not buying it 469 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 7: to that concept. Just frustrated, man, Thank you for using 470 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 7: it's curious good ti. 471 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 2: Wow. 472 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 5: Even in the best case scenario, Savee knew there would 473 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 5: be many things to worry about if freedom came, and 474 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 5: deep down he also knew he wasn't prepared for life 475 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 5: on the outside. Sure, he'd done all of these great 476 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 5: things in prison, but he'd spent three decades living like 477 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 5: he was never going to see the outside, and so 478 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 5: the anxiety of what was to come went on and 479 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 5: on for a while. 480 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 7: What's college from? Really? And inmate? 481 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: It is so correctional institution? At hey, Save it's May eighth, 482 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: right eighth, So it's it's Tuesday, June sixth, Hi, Suave, 483 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: So what happened? You were gonna call me this morning? 484 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: So it's two It. 485 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 7: Was really nothing, you know that weeks? Oh man, it's 486 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 7: like talk. 487 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 5: Her roughly, and then finally, thank you for using skiis. 488 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 7: You may start the conversation. 489 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: Now, Hello, Hello, Hello, you going this morning? Save It 490 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: is Friday, June ninth, at ten forty four in the morning. 491 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: What's going on? I thought we were going to talk 492 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: at two. What happened? 493 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 7: I wanted to let you know that that just told 494 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 7: them only this morning. Oh, we don't have to wait 495 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 7: no long. But June twenty sixth, seventeen days from today, 496 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 7: we're bringing him to court so he could go seek 497 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 7: parol in July. 498 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: What So it's like, it's like totally not a normal 499 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: day for you in prison after thirty years. Today and once, okay, 500 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: I'm just taking a deep breath. 501 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 7: And I bought some clothes. What do you mean, my lord, 502 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 7: don't think any closed? He said, it's only going to 503 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 7: be like a forty five minute process. I said, well, 504 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 7: guess what. I'm tired of wearing brown for thirty one years. 505 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 7: So I bought me some clothes, some street clothes, because 506 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 7: I leave for forty minutes. I wanted. I wanted. I 507 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 7: want to feel like I belonged. And last night, you 508 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 7: don't even imagine I had a dream with Chinese food 509 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 7: that I was eating Chinese food. That was just a dream. 510 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: What what were you eating? 511 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 7: Bro? It's some pork fried rice. And then I woke up. 512 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 7: It's like, wow, thank you producing It's curious, good baron. 513 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: And there you have it. Another phone call, another conversation 514 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: cut off in the middle. 515 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 5: Okay, So right before Swave is hearing, you get an 516 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 5: unexpected phone call from him, say, how you. 517 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 7: Doing my lawyer? My lawyer asked me to ask you 518 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 7: a question. 519 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: Okay, man, he wanted all have a few words my 520 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: bobby has I'm sorry about what I know. 521 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 7: I want to know if you would saf you word 522 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 7: on my behavior. I'm my cored hearing because Judge want 523 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 7: to has all a file of my close history. 524 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: Your lawyer is asking me to speak on your behalf 525 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: in court in Philadelphia on June twenty sixth. 526 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 7: Yes. 527 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: The only hesitation that you hear in my voice that 528 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: this raises a couple of issues for us because that's 529 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: never happened to me in my life, in my career. 530 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: And I'm happy to do it, but I need to 531 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: make sure that my team is also okay with it, 532 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: because it's not something that journalists normally do. 533 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 5: And part of her struggle, Maria realized she needed to 534 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 5: know something. 535 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: Can you tell me your victim's name and how old 536 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: he was? 537 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 7: I'll pick the name with all Danny Martinez and he 538 00:31:59,120 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 7: was thirteen years old. 539 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 540 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 8: Wow. 541 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Julieta Martinelli and Maggie Feeling 542 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: and edited by Audrey Quinn. Suave is a production of 543 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: Uturo Studios distributed by PRX. The executive editor is Marlon Bishop. 544 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Amy Tardif subscribe to the Suave podcast, 545 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: listen to what happens next, just search for the word 546 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: Suave wherever you get your podcasts on the Latino USA. 547 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: Team includes Miel Massias, Andrea Ropes Crusado, Marta Martinez, Alissa Escarce, 548 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: Gini montalbo Alejandra salasad Rinaldo Legos Junior and Julia Rocha, 549 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: with help from Raul Prees. Our engineer are Stephanie Lebaud, 550 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: Julia Caruso and Lia Schaff with help from Alisha buta Itto. 551 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: Our digital editor is Louis Luna. Our interns are Samantha 552 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: Friedman and Carl Rubin. Our theme music was composed by 553 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: Sange Robinos. If you like the music you heard on 554 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: this episode. Stop by Latinousa dot org and check out 555 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer 556 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: Maria nor Josa. Join us again on our next episode, 557 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: and in the meantime, look for us on all of 558 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: our social media. I'll see you there, Chao. 559 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 10: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising 560 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 10: Simons Foundation, Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at hsfoundation 561 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 10: dot org. The Art for Justice Fund, a special project 562 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 10: of Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors and the Ford Foundation working with 563 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 10: visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. 564 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 6: To me right there too, this one, Yeah, yes, it is. 565 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 6: I was right before that. 566 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 8: That is not. 567 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 6: I was like maybe seven, always had a big. 568 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm Maria no Josa. Next time on Latino USA. The 569 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: second installment of Suave the podcast, we learn more about 570 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: his past as a kid growing up in the South 571 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,919 Speaker 1: Bronx and later in the bad Lands of Philadelphia. 572 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 3: At an early age, I used to take the green 573 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 3: lipstin and ty to act like I had tattoos and fascinated. 574 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 6: With the lifestyle. 575 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 3: That's how you get the street. 576 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 7: Credibility, and I would be the baddest due on the block, and. 577 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: We follow him to his resentence in hearing, where we'll 578 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: find out if he'll finally get a chance at freedom. 579 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: That's suave, next time on Latino USA.