WEBVTT - #022 Jason Flom with Kristine Bunch and Obie Anthony (Live from the Innocence Network Conference 2017) 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.960 With the police banging on the door open up. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.360 The choice to be in that lineup was the last 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.440 choice that made as a free man. A year later, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.040 I ended up writing the system. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.279 I'm going to be one of those people who everyone 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:21.919 in the world is going to think as a monster 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.040 or suspect as a monster for the rest of my life, 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:25.360 and I'm just going to have to come to peace 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:25.639 with that. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:29.560 Somebody was able to look at my picture in the 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.160 database and say that I was somewhere where I definitely wasn't. 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.519 I overheard three of the jailers discussing what part they 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:38.760 might have to play in my hanging. 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:40.960 They had been told that two. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.680 Prison officers would have to participate in my execution. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.280 Now I walked back inside that prison for the last time. Man, 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:49.600 all help broke loose. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:01:03.880 But Welcome to another episode of Ronful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.600 This is part two of the San Diego series, where 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.240 we'll be doing shorter interviews than usual because we have 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.400 so many incredible people here at the Ennisis Network conference. Today, 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.600 I'll be interviewing Christine Bunch and Ob Anthony. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.360 The tragedy for Christine Bunch began in nineteen ninety five 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.600 when a fire in this Greensburg mobile home killed her 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:24.600 three year old son. 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.399 The mother who spent nearly seventeen years in prison for 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.399 arson and murder after state fire investigators hit evidence. 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.160 That could have cleared her, Christine Bunch has maintained her 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:35.080 innocence all. 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.560 Along years of anguish for a crime she says she 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:38.400 did not commit. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.600 Now over all charges were eventually dropped against Christine Bunch 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.000 after the original report surface. 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.760 And Indiana mother who spent sixteen years in prison in 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.120 the killing of her young son is free tonight after 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.680 charges against her are dropped. Christine, welcome, Thank you. We 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.200 are in the Sunshine in San Diego where we are 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:02.440 broadcasting from the Innocence Network, which is a conference where 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.000 we bring together this year. I think we have two 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.800 hundred dexonrees. Yes, we do, with people from the movement, 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:16.040 social workers, attorneys, counselors, teachers, law students, law students, press. 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.359 It's really it's I mean, the amount of positive energy 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.440 that's being generated here this weekend is remarkable. Wouldn't you say. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.040 It's incredible and you can kizz. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.600 And you are right in the middle of it. I 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.960 don't know your energy is so incredible. So Christine was 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:35.280 wrongfully convicted in one of the worst possible scenarios, which 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.920 is that she lost her child. Her three year old son, Anthony, 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.639 was killed in a fire in your home. And we 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.040 know now, and I think they knew then that the 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.560 arson science is not really science. Not only did they 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.160 know that, but also they really knew that this was 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.880 not arson. Why they felt they wanted to go after 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:57.280 you in the way they did, I don't know they 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.880 will ever understand, because it's like trying to understand evil. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.760 But one way or another, you were wrongfully convicted. And 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.200 this Innocent Network conference is about overcoming and triumphing, and 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.320 you are certainly a great example of that. First, let's 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.920 go back to that awful time and just give the 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.600 audience a sense of what was going on. You were 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:16.960 very young at the time, right. 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:21.080 I was twenty one and a single mother, working, going 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.679 to school, and I had my three year old, and 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:26.880 so my life was just busy and full. 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.040 And one morning I woke up. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.679 And was surprised because I thought it was foggy in 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:38.520 the house, and in truth, it was on fire. And 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.360 it takes a minute for your brain to realize what's 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:46.480 happening what you're doing in that moment, because you're just 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.760 frozen with fear, and it's like your mind goes blank. 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.640 And then it's like you're running through mud trying to 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.680 figure out what do I do? And I'm throwing things 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:01.120 on it because you always hear in school, but we 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.400 don't realize that the materials we use now are synthetics 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.800 and they just melt. They don't smother it. It's burning 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.840 in your hands. So I ran out the door to 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:15.280 get help and fed the fire. When I went out, 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:19.280 oxygen came in and made it even bigger. But you're 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.640 just panicked, thinking I've got to get in there. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:22.640 I've got to do something. 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.840 So then I broke a window with his tricycle and 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.760 tried to climb in, and by that time the flames 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.920 were coming through the roof. They took me to the hospital, 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:38.000 and of course I'm asking did you find him? Because 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.640 I couldn't find him. It never occurred to me that 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.800 he wasn't coming out alive. And that simple statement was 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.000 used against me at my trial because I asked, did 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.120 you find him? Like they said, I knew he was 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.800 already dead, but you just don't think that things will 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:56.920 happen to you like that. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.159 There's nothing in the phrase did you find him that 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.960 says to me, did you find a dead body? I 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.320 mean exactly. They twist these things in so many ways, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.240 and it's so weird too. I Mean we see over 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:13.960 and over again in wrongful conviction cases, especially cases like yours, 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.640 where they say, well, you didn't react the way we 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.320 think you should have. You were too upset, you weren't 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.520 upset enough. I mean, how is anyone supposed to know 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.760 how you're going to react. Everyone reacts differently in all 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.039 types of panic situations. Right, this is beyond pattered, This 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.040 is terror, This is sheer terror. You've almost lost your 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.400 life in the process of losing your son you don't 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.560 even know, and your home and you just woke up 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:40.840 and add that type of thing that people most people, 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:42.520 they just wake up. They don't even know what to do. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.560 They stumble arounds looking for the coffee machine. Right. I mean, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.320 here you are just waking up and the house is 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.720 on fire, and everything that you're trying to do to 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.440 help is backfiring, right exactly, because because who the hell 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.440 would know, right? I mean, yeah, they teach us a 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.040 little bit in school, right, throw a thing on it. 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.919 But I mean, it's not like you took fire. You 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.680 weren't a volunteer firefighter or anything like that. Right, So 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.360 now the sort of witch hunt or whatever you want 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.080 to call it starts. They decide that this is something 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.960 they want to pursue. They're going to get this. Mom, 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.280 you go to trial, did you think that you were 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.800 going to be vindicated? Do you think that it was curtains? 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.240 I mean, they had these arson investigators and all these 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.479 supposed experts saying all this stuff about these accelerants, which 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.719 we now know not only isn't a real science but 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.560 also wasn't true. But exactly what were you thinking? You're 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.240 just a kid and indicator Indiana, right. 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.880 Right, I mean you're always taught the police or your 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.359 friends they're going to find out the truth. You know, 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.520 they would never do anything wrong. So I went to 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.960 court thinking I'm going to go home, They're going to 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:48.599 see the truth. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.680 They're going to see me that I didn't do this. 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:56.480 And then when they said guilty, I was just in shock. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.520 I just blanked. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.440 Everybody's trying to ask me questions on the way out 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.679 going to the police station, and I mean, I'm still 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:13.360 registering what they just said to me, let alone trying 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:14.440 to answer your question. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.960 So I'm just looking at them and it's just a blur. 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.160 Right, And this is in Christine. This is what we 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:20.960 see on TV all the time, right, the people that's 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.680 at the cameras, the reporter's yelling yes, yeah, they're all 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.120 and now they're all part of this mob mentality. Right, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.560 You're stuck in a nightmare that would be unimaginable to 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.360 anyone who hasn't been through a day. Then you're sent 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.040 to prison, sentenced to I. 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:42.480 Was sentenced to sixty years for murder, fifty for arson, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.680 and they ran them concurrently, so it was just the 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:47.240 sixty years. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.520 Just sixty, just sixty, right, and you were twenty one, 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.040 so had eighty one you would have come out on 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.680 your walker and maybe maybe if you were prolled. So 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:57.600 you go to prison and. 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.960 Go to prison, and now you're pregnant. I am pregnant. 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.560 I was released on bond when it came back the 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.080 test results came back that it wasn't gasoline because they 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.360 thought I'd use gasoline to set the fire. So when 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.640 those results came back negative for gasoline, my judge put 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:15.600 me out on bond. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:17.800 I would have seemed like an appropriate time to drop 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.640 the charges, but they decided to put you out on bond. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.840 They put me out on bond, and. 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.640 I feel like it wasn't the best thing, but the 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.880 best thing came out of it, because when I came out, 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:35.200 I was doing all the wrong things. I was taking 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:40.199 whatever anybody gave me. I was drinking. I honestly didn't 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.160 care if I woke up. I lost everything. I mean, 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.680 finding out I was pregnant with Tony changed my life, 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.560 and I changed my life to take care of my 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.000 son and give him everything that I. 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:51.560 Could give him. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.319 And when I lost him, I didn't want to live. 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.320 I wanted to be numb. I didn't want to feel, 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:04.800 and so I was very reckless. And I met a 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.160 guy and spent some time with him, and he was 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:09.280 feeding me whatever. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:10.400 I wanted to be numb. 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.160 And then I started getting really sick and found out 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.079 that I was pregnant, and I didn't think that I 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:21.840 could have anymore. So that was kind of my miracle moment, 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:27.000 and I changed everything and started focusing on fighting because 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:28.040 I had a son to fight for. 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.760 I had something to live for at that moment. 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.400 And this is a really I think interesting part of 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.080 the story in that you gave birth in prison. Yes, 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:44.520 And as we spoke about before, there's different protocols in 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.520 different places in the country, in the world. There's no 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.440 good answer for how do you deal with a baby 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:55.960 in prison and having a child yanked away, whether it's 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.040 on twenty four hours in as what happened to you, yeah, 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.200 or three years later like those that last period of 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.400 time like counting down the minutes or the second I 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.920 can't even imagine. It's just so horrible. But in Indiana, 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:15.320 their policy was twenty four hours and then kid goodbye. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.880 Yes, you're going back to the facility and the baby's 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:19.439 going home. 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:20.080 Yeah. 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.520 My family took my son and they had him right 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.760 over to the prison because I passed them on my 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.480 way back out to be transferred to the facility, and 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.680 both of us weren't supposed to be released until the 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.760 next day. So I passed my dad and I'm I'm 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.080 sobbing and telling him, don't leave my baby here. 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.400 I can't lose another baby. You got to get my baby. 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.800 So the doctor that actually delivered him helped my family 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.400 to get a car seat and blankets so they could 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.720 take him right then because they had everything for the 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.840 next day, and then he brought him straight over to 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.520 the prison so that I would know that they had him, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.800 and I did have to worry. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.679 That was at least a small blessing that you were 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.240 able to have family and know that your baby son 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.040 was going to be taken care of and protected and loved, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.439 and you got to have visitation with him ten hours 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.240 a month. Was that how it worked out? 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.760 You get ten hours a month in the regular visiting 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.760 room where you can't really do anything. You have to 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.480 be sitting in a chair, so I could hold him 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.600 on my lap, But it took a while for us 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.400 to change the policy where I could get on the 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.080 floor and do blocks with him on the table or cars. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.040 But when I first got there, you sat in the chair. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.800 Your family went and got chips or a coke for you. 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.800 You couldn't move, and if he needed something like its 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.920 diaper changed or to be fed, my family would have 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.319 to get up and go out into the outer court 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:51.720 and take care of that there. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.320 That couldn't be done in the visiting room. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.040 So I didn't really have any hands on until six 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.640 months in when they opened the Family Present program and 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:03.960 our children could come in for one on one visits 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.280 with us, and so then I got an extra ten 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.679 hours a month just for him. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.840 Yeah, that's and that's something I want to highlight is 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.200 that these programs in the prisons that provide a little 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.720 glimpse of humanity in an otherwise cold and cruel and 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:25.959 purely punitive system that we have here is so important. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.480 And in your case, I can see you lighting up 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.360 talking about it. I mean, what a difference that makes, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.840 you know, so, and obviously what a difference it did make, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:38.160 and so ultimately your case was overturned. It was sixteen 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.960 years later. Yes, let's just talk for a moment about 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:48.120 what that was like, vindication, freedom, I mean. 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.839 Just the new evidence that came out in the case. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.960 You know, my son reached an eighty percent carbon monoxide 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.959 level that was new fire science from a forensic toxicologist. 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.760 And hearing her say that I was in the very 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:09.080 next room and was probably half of that level and hallucinating. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:15.200 Everything's blurry, everything's slow, you're sluggish. I mean that made 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.840 me feel better because you always think you can do more. 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.240 And then finding out they falsified an ATF. 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.800 Re board that right there, that was vindication for me, 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.640 if I'd never walked out, at least I knew that 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:35.920 it wasn't it wasn't an arson, he wasn't murdered. It 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.800 was just an accident, and that I think was the 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:53.440 best moment. Walking out was good, but it's scary, and I. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.480 Want to talk about that. And the Center for Wronful 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.880 Convictions played a big role in your exoneration, so I 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:02.040 want to give them respect and from both of us 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.960 because without them you wouldn't be here. And your advocate 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.240 was Betsy Marx right as well. So there's a number 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.880 of heroes in this situation, and ultimately you walked out, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.720 and that's what I really want to focus on. Because 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.640 we're here at the Innocence Network conference and watching people 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:23.360 heal and recover and transform themselves. It's such a powerful thing. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.560 Every time I see it, it just makes me want 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.440 to do more and more and everything I can to 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.600 help and promote this work. So when you get out, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:35.800 then what sixteen years a long time? 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:37.560 Yes, very long time. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.480 So what were the things like, how did where did 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.200 you go? How did you reconnect? And what could we 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.920 as a society do differently to help others who are 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.120 coming out after this type of ordeal. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.480 I think it's important for people to know that you 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.040 don't have to give a whole lot out of your 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.400 wallet to make a difference for us, if we just had. 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:00.800 People that would give us time. 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.600 I mean, I didn't know, and it was like the 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.440 most embarrassing thing for me. I'm thirty nine years old. 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:09.720 It took me ten minutes to get out of the 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:14.040 bathroom because they had removed the knobs on the water 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.960 faucets and I didn't know how to turn it on. 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:22.200 I just thankfully finally flicked something automatic. 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.080 Yes, so I still have trouble with that. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.160 It came on and I was like, oh my god, 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:28.960 and I'm in tears by the time I come out, 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.520 and there's my brother saying, what's wrong? 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.800 Are you sick? Is there a problem? I said, I 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:33.880 didn't know how to turn. 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.600 On the water, And so things like that make me 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.880 want to stay at home because I don't want to 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.040 go out and be embarrassed and tell people I don't 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.040 know how to do this. I was waiting for a 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.840 full service gas station and we don't have those anymore. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.120 So things that I've never learned how to do, like 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.280 change my oil or check my entire pressure. I now 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.320 have to go find somebody to do that, because I 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.160 can't just pull up and say fill it up, and 0:15:58.160 --> 0:15:59.240 can you check everything? 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.480 Do you remember what time you were actually released? 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.360 I want to say it's four or five in the afternoon, and. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:08.640 What did you do? Where'd you go? 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.800 So first we went, I didn't talk to any of 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.080 those reporters that called me a baby killer, and I 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.000 gave one interview with Sandra Chapman because she had interviewed 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.200 me in the prison and helped push my case forward, 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.760 so she was the only exclusive. 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:23.680 That I gave. 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.880 And we went to a park and I got to 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.680 walk in the grass barefoot, and we had a nice 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.280 time there. And then we went over to Bistro three 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.720 ten and I had champagne with my attorneys, and they 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:41.000 made me some scallops because seafood was my favorite. They 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.880 asked what kind of food I wanted. I said colorful, 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.640 and she said, what do you mean? And I said 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:47.680 everything in there is kind. 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.480 Of brown and gray and it's just not pretty. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.360 I said, I want to eat vegetables that are colored 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.360 and nice, and cheese and different kinds of things. So 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.720 they set me up with hummus and peda and the 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:04.840 color not. 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.880 All of it. There was a spicy that was kind 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:07.919 of red, and I. 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.960 Would have gotten a strawberry or maybe like. 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.560 I had that for dessert, I had a whole plate 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.199 of different fruits and cream cheese dip and then whipped 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:16.719 cream up. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:17.400 Was incredible. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.080 Yeah, that sounds incredible. And then you went where. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.080 Then I went to my mother's house where my son 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.080 was staying, and I was upmost the night because I'd 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:29.760 never gotten to see my baby sleep. 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.560 That's an incredible visual. And I see you tearing up. 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:36.119 I mean, I'm trying not to myself. And now you 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.240 watch them sleep, you get up the next day. Is 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.120 it starting to feel real? At that point? 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.320 It's feeling real? It's also feeling frightening. I mean, the 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:49.080 only thing I have is my literally my prison uniform 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.200 and white white tennis shoes in a bag. I had 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:57.640 no clothes, I have no hygiens. I don't have a toothbrush, 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.440 and I'm thinking, I have no money. How am I 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.760 supposed to get these things? I have no vehicle, how 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.960 am I supposed to get around? And thank goodness, I 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.280 mean three o'clock in the afternoon, when my brother got 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:13.640 off of work. He came in, picked me up, and 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:18.280 we went out to eat, and I literally again had 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:19.320 no idea what to order. 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.240 Decisions are so real hard because for. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.239 So long I haven't made any and I'm trying to 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.040 branch out and get better. 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.760 With that, but it's still it's still an issue that 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:31.520 I go through. 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:36.000 So we ate and I had a peach frozen margarita 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.840 and a steak, and then he took me shopping, and 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.760 so we went into this clothing store and there's all 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.320 these colors and he's like, what do you want. 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:47.280 Well, I've had nothing but. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.359 White and khaki. I have no idea, and so my 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.520 eyes bug out and he was like, okay, he said, 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.400 you go in the fitting room. I'm going to bring 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.040 you outfits. So he brought me back outfits and the 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.240 things that I put on and said this fits good, and. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:01.760 I like this. 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.320 They went into the keep pile and everything else went back. 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.679 And then when we left there, he took me to 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.320 an old fashioned candy store and got me some candy 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.800 that we had when we were kids. And then we 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.040 went to a wine store and I tasted some wine 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.000 and he picked up a couple bottles of. 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.160 That, and then we went to Walmart, and at. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.160 That point, I'm like, wow, you know, I'm over the 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.560 moon with everything I'm seeing. And Walmart's now Super Walmart. 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.320 And we go to pick out shampoo and he's like, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.560 what do you want? Well, I've only had two choices 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:37.720 and there's a whole aisle. 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.680 I have no idea. So here's my brother and we're 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.840 smelling them up and down the aisle. He said, we'll 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.840 just pick what smells good. So we went through and 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:48.600 we found something that I liked. 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.720 And so by the time we get through there and 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.040 I'm like, you know, I need some feminine products. There's 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.800 a whole isle of that, and he's like, what do 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.320 you want. Well, I've only had one sixteen years and 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.080 I don't know. And at this point I'm I'm done. 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.640 I'm wiped out. I can't speak, and here I start crying. 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:11.199 And so he looks at me and he was like, 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.399 it's okay. He said, my wife uses this, and he 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:14.880 puts it in the cart and he said and if 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.000 you don't like it, he said, we'll come back every 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:20.920 day until we find what works for you. And so 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.000 he took me to his house and I had wine 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.080 and he made me homemade guacamole, and I sat. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.600 Visiting with him. Yes, it's colorful. And then I ended 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.480 up spending the night with him. And then the next day. 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:34.119 Is when he took me to the movie theater and 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.879 I couldn't turn on the water, so he. 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:38.440 Made it good. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.920 And he's the one that between him and my son, 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.639 they kept me going out instead of hiding in the 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:46.400 house and not. 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:47.320 Dealing with people. 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:49.679 And they helped me get my license. I had to 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.040