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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head

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Speaker 2: up KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts and

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Speaker 2: documentaries and I get to be here every single night

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Speaker 2: with true crime expert of all things, Courtney Armstrong and

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Speaker 2: also true crime analyst Body move in and rest assured

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Speaker 2: because it is Wednesday, September third, and we have a

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Speaker 2: mega stack night of headlines.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 2: We talked about this last night. We're going to break

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Speaker 2: down this homicide as it's being called at burning Man,

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Speaker 2: this very controversial artistic location in California that has seen

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Speaker 2: great tragedy. So we're going to unpack that investigation. Also,

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Speaker 2: we have Don't f with Kats as our you know

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Speaker 2: watch of the week on our True Crime and Chill

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Speaker 2: and you Know body is going to give us all

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Speaker 2: the behind the scenes of what it was like to

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Speaker 2: be on the show. The documentary was so moving and

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Speaker 2: powerful to me, specifically, I'm my dad, So we have

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Speaker 2: tons of burning questions for her. If you have any

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Speaker 2: please last dips. Now's the time, eight at eight three

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Speaker 2: one crime. We want to hear from you. And look,

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Speaker 2: this is one of those nights that we are kind

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Speaker 2: of crumbling up our list of things to talk about

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Speaker 2: because it does seem like an important night in the

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Speaker 2: Gielane Maxwell and Never Ending Jeffrey Epstein's socks heavy. It

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Speaker 2: feels heavy, and you know, we've we talked about it

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Speaker 2: before the show just started, and I think we would

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Speaker 2: be remiss not to acknowledge how heavy it feels and

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Speaker 2: trigger alert if you have been the victim of abuse

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Speaker 2: or at the hand of trauma, Listen, this is sort

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Speaker 2: of triggering. There's no other way around it. And yet

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Speaker 2: I think we have to discuss it. I do, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it could also be empowering. True, so true, because

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Speaker 2: a lot of the victims are speaking out and we're

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Speaker 2: hearing from them well and yeah, and this is the

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Speaker 2: first time. So I think, you know, if you are

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Speaker 2: a victim of something like this, you know this might

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Speaker 2: be you know, your own watershed moment where you might

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Speaker 2: be empowered a little.

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Speaker 4: Bit by some of these victims. So I think it's

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Speaker 4: important that we talk about it.

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Speaker 2: And also the silence is the problem, right, being in darkness,

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Speaker 2: not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Speaker 3: And as was said today, you matter now.

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Speaker 2: If you were the victim, if you have been isolated,

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Speaker 2: if you had been discarded, marginalized, felt as though the

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Speaker 2: abuse you suffered did not matter, just know that you

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Speaker 2: are not alone by any means. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: you're not alone, and you seem to have some backup

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Speaker 2: and back up from maybe some unexpected places. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's the spirit of what we want to discuss tonight,

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Speaker 2: because this gets real political, real quick, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to try to keep it so not that because it

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Speaker 2: seems so nonmbartisan to metisan exactly exactly. So this is

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Speaker 2: not exactly, this is not against any particular side, and

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Speaker 2: this is certainly not just a chick issue or a

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Speaker 2: women's issue. And I've been so encouraged by our male

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Speaker 2: callers and talk backs who have called in to really rally,

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Speaker 2: So I think we could all sort of delicately and

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Speaker 2: kindly and bravely like put our arms out and hold

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Speaker 2: each other close, because this is one of those moments

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Speaker 2: that that I think is going to count in the

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Speaker 2: long run. And today was a really powerful day in

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Speaker 2: the media when it comes to this case. Courtney, do

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Speaker 2: you want to give us like a summation of where

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Speaker 2: we are frankly up until air.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, today, as you guys said, really was a big

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Speaker 5: and pivotal moment in this case with Jeffrey Ebstein and

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Speaker 5: Gillian Maxwell and their sex trafficking history that goes back

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Speaker 5: three decades. Is exactly about the survivors of this story,

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Speaker 5: who many and most of whom we have not heard

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Speaker 5: from until now or seen ever absolutely seen in public.

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Speaker 3: I know what dangerous that is.

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Speaker 5: So these survivors, they held a historic news conference. It

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Speaker 5: was on Capitol Hill and they were demanding that the

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Speaker 5: Department of Justice release more files that are related to

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Speaker 5: the case. Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle continue

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Speaker 5: to push for legislation to compel transparency. And this is

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Speaker 5: amid opposition and some controversy, but it seems like things

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Speaker 5: are breaking. Things are breaking, and hopefully walls are coming down.

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Speaker 5: And again both aisles are saying that they are in

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Speaker 5: support of these files being released and these victims being heard.

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Speaker 5: And actually, I think we should start from a bite

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Speaker 5: from one of the victims, and think of the courage

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Speaker 5: it took for this woman to stand up and say

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Speaker 5: these words out loud about when she was a girl,

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Speaker 5: when this assault happened to her, these assaults. This is

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Speaker 5: Marina Laserda from.

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Speaker 6: Fourteen to seventeen years old. I went and worked for

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Speaker 6: Jeffrey instead of receiving an education. Every day I hope

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Speaker 6: that he would offer me a real job as one

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Speaker 6: of his assistant or something something important. That day never came.

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Speaker 6: I had no way, I had no way out. I

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Speaker 6: was until you finally told me that I was too old.

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Speaker 7: Too old.

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Speaker 3: I was too old at seventeen years old.

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Speaker 2: So do you know how embarrassing and how much shame

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Speaker 2: is often wrapped around any level of abuse and sexual abuse,

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Speaker 2: probably particularly, but I think all kinds of abuse, right.

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Speaker 3: It is so humiliating and embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: So now these women have found the courage to operate

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Speaker 2: in numbers and come out publicly physically and verbally, to

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Speaker 2: really show themselves, to say, look, we're not asking for

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Speaker 2: anything other than truth to be revealed in the light

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Speaker 2: of day that allegedly the CIA, the FBI government officials

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Speaker 2: have files that have information in it that would would

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Speaker 2: give justice.

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Speaker 3: This is again not politics. This is about justice. Court.

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Speaker 3: You just raise your hand right now.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I was just I think it's so powerful that

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Speaker 5: in this issue that has been so crowded and shrouded

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Speaker 5: in politics, that that veil is being taken off.

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Speaker 8: And that's both.

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Speaker 5: You know, Marjorie Green Taylor couldn't be more supportive of

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Speaker 5: the Republican base, you know, her purview, purview of more

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Speaker 5: than half the country, of course, sure, and yet she

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Speaker 5: is saying, no, this is this has nothing to do

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Speaker 5: with politics.

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Speaker 8: This has to do with the abuse.

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Speaker 5: Of young girls and women and the money that has

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Speaker 5: kept everything concealed in secrets, and the power that has

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Speaker 5: been at play. And now it's time for the victims

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Speaker 5: to take back their power, and as you said, for

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Speaker 5: the dj the CIA, and the FBI to release the information,

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Speaker 5: not what happened yesterday, which was literally a re release.

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Speaker 4: Redundant information that we've already kind of known about, right, ninety.

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Speaker 2: Seven percent was already in the public domain, that is,

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Speaker 2: the files that were released yesterday allegedly that we're going

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Speaker 2: to be very meaningful. You bring up, you know, Marjorie

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Speaker 2: Taylor Green, she you know I'm going to go on

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Speaker 2: a limb here. This is not somebody that that I

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Speaker 2: have had a ton in common with, ideologically speaking, So

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Speaker 2: for me to watch for me, yeah, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be there right with you. And I think that speaks

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Speaker 2: to the point. Watching her speak tonight on this issue

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Speaker 2: and frankly feeling very in alignment with her, really shows

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Speaker 2: how not political this is. This is a human issue.

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Speaker 2: And if you have a sister, a grandmother, a mother

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Speaker 2: and aunt, a daughter, this is not And by the way,

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Speaker 2: if you're the victim as a man of any level

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Speaker 2: of abuse, that is not to be discounted. But why

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Speaker 2: are we hovering up for anyone anyone? That is the

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Speaker 2: problem here? And I think we are now entering a

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Speaker 2: fever pitch and I'm so desperate to better understand what

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Speaker 2: everybody here thinks. Our opinions are not the driving force here, right.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, And you should call And this is true crime

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Speaker 5: tonight you're listening to We're on iHeartRadio. Give us a call,

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Speaker 5: eighty to eighty three to one crime. We're talking about

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Speaker 5: the victims who have come forth in relation to the

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Speaker 5: Epstein's sex trafficking case and how powerful that was to

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Speaker 5: hear all of them, and actually I would love to

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Speaker 5: go to another one, this one from Lisa Phillips.

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Speaker 9: Great I would like to announce here today us Epstein

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Speaker 9: survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know

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Speaker 9: the names, many of us were abused by them. Now

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Speaker 9: together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names we

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Speaker 9: all know and who are regularly in the Epstein world,

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Speaker 9: and it will be done by survivors and for survivors.

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Speaker 3: Wow, so like we're not actually being believed right now.

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Speaker 2: So if those files in and or names of predators

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Speaker 2: are not going to be released, which all sides and

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Speaker 2: genders and socioeconomic groups are asking for fairly collectively at

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Speaker 2: this point, PS, you know some of the key people

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Speaker 2: Vice President J.

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Speaker 3: D Vance, Pam Bondi.

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Speaker 2: Our eternal General Ash Patel, FBI Director Dan Bongino, who

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Speaker 2: was going to come in and clean house as our

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Speaker 2: you know, co deputy director. These are the people that

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Speaker 2: were actually begging for this information and have been doing

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Speaker 2: so for many, many years. Why are we suddenly hitting

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Speaker 2: a wall with transparency? And I think that is at

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Speaker 2: its root the issue here and again it's a rally

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Speaker 2: call for anyone who has felt victimized in any category.

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Speaker 2: I think we could all agree enough is enough and

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Speaker 2: by the way, if not said enough, you matter now.

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Speaker 2: And I think the voices are about to get pretty loud, honestly,

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Speaker 2: even just hearing.

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Speaker 3: The victim statements and them being.

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Speaker 2: Together for what seems like the very first first I

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Speaker 2: don't even know how that's possible, but like there's you know,

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Speaker 2: they're sharing stories and like seeing things and hearing things

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Speaker 2: in there.

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Speaker 4: They're connecting dots real time, right, and it's it's humiliating

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Speaker 4: likely and they're also maybe parents of their own, and

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Speaker 4: they've lost loved ones and they've lived in shame and

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Speaker 4: the decisions that have been made because of their lack

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Speaker 4: of sense of self.

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Speaker 2: You know, you hear about somebody who's fourteen years old

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Speaker 2: who makes the decision to drop out of school to

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Speaker 2: be beholden to Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 3: In his every whim is harrowing.

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Speaker 2: We also heard first you know, first person, first person,

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Speaker 2: that Jeffrey Epstein employed a person in high school to

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Speaker 2: go to their fellow classmates. By the way, she was

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Speaker 2: also a victim, and that he would pay two hundred

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Speaker 2: dollars to any high schooler that was recruited and out

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Speaker 2: of fear and intimidate and fear of further abuse, she

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Speaker 2: did that and had to say that live at a

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Speaker 2: press conference in front of the world. That is a

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Speaker 2: level of courage. By the way, these are adult women

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Speaker 2: now who have children and lives of their own value.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Only in retrospactor you see like, wow, who hasn't like

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Speaker 2: done and done it? I would I just raised my

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Speaker 2: left hand and say in my right hand, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to raise them both. I have done some things that

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Speaker 2: I look back on, I'm like, what planet were you on?

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Speaker 2: Why was that the best decision at that time? And

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Speaker 2: then you look at the circumstances and you're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I mean you have.

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Speaker 3: To just know that wiser minds prevail.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, time and by the way, I

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Speaker 4: think it's important to note too, this has been kept

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Speaker 4: secret for what thirty thirty years this decade?

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Speaker 3: And I mean, so those those.

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Speaker 4: Are powerful secrets, right, kept by powerful men. I'm just

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Speaker 4: gonna say, kept by powerful people. Yes, right, So these

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Speaker 4: victims are in front of the world telling you know, hey, listen,

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Speaker 4: we're going to release our own list.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 4: Think about how brave that. I mean, you're facing absolute power,

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Speaker 4: the most powerful people in the world right, not only money,

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Speaker 4: not only billionaires, but political power right exactly exactly, they

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Speaker 4: put themselves in danger. Potentially, they are facing.

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Speaker 2: A firing squad amongst the world right and are basically

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Speaker 2: and by the way, many of them have not survived.

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Speaker 3: Many of them have taken.

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Speaker 2: Their own lives or have lost their lives to very

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Speaker 2: sad circumstances because of the trauma that they endured and

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Speaker 2: also the double trauma of not being believed. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's also the rally cry here too, the idea

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Speaker 2: of not being believed. You know, I would say everyone

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Speaker 2: that I heard speak, you know, feared not being believed

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Speaker 2: or blaming themselves. And by the way, the predator praise

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Speaker 2: on the person who would blame themselves. Absolutely, that's like

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Speaker 2: that you're the target. Actually that's them, that's the person exactly,

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Speaker 2: which is why we have to talk about it. So

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Speaker 2: you know, if you've been the victim of anything like this, God,

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Speaker 2: we're so sorry, and it's like we have to release

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Speaker 2: the shame, and we just have to release the shame

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Speaker 2: because that keeps everybody real quiet.

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Speaker 3: And guess what predators love real quiet.

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Speaker 4: They want they want star and they want you to

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Speaker 4: be quiet. Exactly shut up, right, exactly.

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Speaker 5: Well, these victims are doing anything but shutting up in

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Speaker 5: this moment as well.

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Speaker 8: They should not.

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Speaker 5: And one woman excuse my pronunciation, Anuska to Georgio, I

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Speaker 5: believe she was she was told, she said this, that

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Speaker 5: she was told by Epstein and Gillian Maxwell that if

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Speaker 5: she talked quote or if there was trouble, she would

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Speaker 5: face severe consequences in including.

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Speaker 2: Death like how are you Oh my gosh, she feared

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Speaker 2: her mother and her sister or one of them. I

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Speaker 2: think that was a different one, but like mother, sister

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Speaker 2: and family back in Brazil feared them being harmed.

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Speaker 3: That's the trick here.

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Speaker 2: These guys have the reach to do it, of course,

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Speaker 2: and that's what we're also noticing because if there was

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Speaker 2: one or two schmcgeggy's on this list, we would know

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Speaker 2: about it. Again, I just think we need transparency, right,

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Speaker 2: So listen, this is a heavy night that we don't

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Speaker 2: want it to be too crazy heavy, but here we are.

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Speaker 2: Later in the show, though, we are going to do

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Speaker 2: a deep unpack with body move in our very own

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Speaker 2: where she's really going to talk to us frankly for

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Speaker 2: the first time about her experience on Don't f with Kats,

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Speaker 2: the documentary that she was a part of on Netflix,

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Speaker 2: which is where you know, we were really all introduced

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Speaker 2: to her, myself included, and her incredible work on that project.

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Speaker 2: I think it really put her in the spotlight, and

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Speaker 2: it did so in such an ethical, beautiful way. So

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Speaker 2: we're going to learn more about the case, but also

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Speaker 2: really a lot about bodies experience making that documentary and

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Speaker 2: more importantly, her investment in the case. So listen, we're

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Speaker 2: all in this true prime world right, which is very

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Speaker 2: victim forward. We are all about really giving a moment

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Speaker 2: for victims to feel heard or to have a voice

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Speaker 2: when maybe they don't always. So as much as we

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Speaker 2: don't want to belabor what's sometimes happening in the news

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Speaker 2: that could feel exhausting and overwhelming, I think we would

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Speaker 2: be remiss not to discuss what is happening in real

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Speaker 2: time in the news and in our country. In regards

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Speaker 2: to the Epstein files and Gileen Maxwell's you know, recent

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Speaker 2: reduction in security, dare I say she's been moved to

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Speaker 2: a minimum security prison post her interviews with you know

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Speaker 2: people that are associated with the current administration again trying

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Speaker 2: to keep this not political.

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Speaker 3: Let's just put the politics aside for one second.

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Speaker 2: I know we can our community, this true crime crew,

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Speaker 2: we are people that care, right, So let's all take

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Speaker 2: our politics hats off. Let's all take gas prices off,

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Speaker 2: and tariffs and everything scary in the world right now.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what the million countries that are feuding.

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Speaker 2: Let's just like put that all away for one second

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Speaker 2: and just be together for a moment to really think

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Speaker 2: about the fact that many victims and women have come

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Speaker 2: forward sharing their tail, which puts them in profound danger

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Speaker 2: when it comes to the Epstein case, specifically because it

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Speaker 2: has been rumored and alleged that he was working in

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Speaker 2: a double sided way, potentially for US their foreign countries. Right,

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Speaker 2: so this is a world issue, and allegedly there was

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Speaker 2: a list. Let's also pretend there's no list. We just

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Speaker 2: want the files with full transparency. And you know, today

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Speaker 2: again there was a press conference. Many of the victims

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Speaker 2: have spoken out. Hearing their tail is a pretty harsh

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Speaker 2: reminder of why this story is so big. In fact,

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Speaker 2: let's go to Jess Michaels and her testimony today.

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Speaker 10: I believed I was alone, and I was kept silent

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Speaker 10: by the shame that was inside me and by the

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Speaker 10: fear outside in the world. But I wasn't the only one.

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Speaker 10: None of us were. And what once kept us silent

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Speaker 10: now fuels that fire and the power of our voices.

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Speaker 3: And so it is right.

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Speaker 2: So if that doesn't say it all, and again, this

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Speaker 2: is a rally call for all victims.

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Speaker 3: It's not.

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Speaker 2: This is again no politics. No, it is not just

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Speaker 2: about this specific case. It's about being disbelieved and discounted

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Speaker 2: and being victimized and not ever getting justice.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting she said she thought she was the only one,

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Speaker 4: and this happened to her nineteen ninety one. I mean

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Speaker 4: that's thirty thirty four years. She thought she was alone

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Speaker 4: in this.

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Speaker 3: Decades of a person's life. And now she's power in numbers.

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Speaker 4: Now she has tears that went through the same thing

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Speaker 4: that she can rely on and talk to. And there

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Speaker 4: is power in numbers. Right, you can't ignore hundreds like

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Speaker 4: apparently a thousand women, right, a.

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Speaker 3: Thousand and these are young, old, I mean, all the things.

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Speaker 2: And you know, listen, it was said out loud that

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Speaker 2: Gilain Maxwell, who again is now at a minimum security

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Speaker 2: prison serving jail. I think we should call it. Some

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Speaker 2: call it club fed. You know, that's how low the

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Speaker 2: security is. She would basically employ young girls, some of

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Speaker 2: whom were underage, to give her a massage, and then

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Speaker 2: she would say, Oh, my goodness, that's great.

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Speaker 3: So he's gonna love you. Jeffrey's gonna love you.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, he'll probably help get you into

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Speaker 2: such and such or he'll probably help with this job

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Speaker 2: idea of yours.

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Speaker 3: You have a dream. Oh, you are in the right

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Speaker 3: circle now.

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Speaker 2: So you're praying on people who maybe feel like they

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Speaker 2: don't have the world at their fingertips.

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Speaker 3: I don't know many of us know what that's like.

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Speaker 4: They're looking for opportunities and you know, and they want

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Speaker 4: to make some assault themselves.

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Speaker 5: Yes, exactly, And it's important to hear some of what

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Speaker 5: the victims actually, yeah said, So just gonna throw some

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Speaker 5: of them out in case any anybody listening missed the

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Speaker 5: press conference, because it's really it's hard to hear, and

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Speaker 5: it's important to hear. Jene Lisa Jones. She spoke about

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Speaker 5: her absolute fear when she was abused. This happened to

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Speaker 5: her at the age of fourteen, and her quote is

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Speaker 5: I had never been more scared in my life than

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Speaker 5: I was the first time that he hurt me.

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Speaker 3: The first time.

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Speaker 8: That's right. Take that in. That's right, the first time.

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Speaker 3: And she was fourteen, we're talking eighth grade.

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Speaker 4: I was worried about what flavory gloss I was going

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Speaker 4: to wear fourteen, like watermelon or cherry.

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Speaker 3: That was my biggest dilemma, and it should be fourteen, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Hailey Robinson from that, you don't.

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Speaker 4: Hailey Robinson, she was sixteen when her began recounted how

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Speaker 4: Epstein then forced her to bring more young girls to

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Speaker 4: him from her high school to give him massages. She

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Speaker 4: was then treated as a criminal, she said. Hailey Robinson

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Speaker 4: said she is a registered Republican and that Epstein's case

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Speaker 4: is not a hoax. We are real human beings and

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Speaker 4: this is real trauma. Now this goes because forty five

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Speaker 4: minutes after these victims bravely stood on the the you know,

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Speaker 4: giving this press conference, and it was very bipartisan. There

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Speaker 4: were Democrats and Republicans there. President Donald Trump said, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to quote because I want to get it right

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Speaker 4: from what I understand. Thousands of pages of documents have

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Speaker 4: been given, but it's really a democratic hoax, a Democrat hoax,

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Speaker 4: because they're trying to get people to talk about something

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Speaker 4: that's totally irrelevant to the successes that we've had as

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Speaker 4: a nation since I've been president. And he said that

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Speaker 4: forty five minutes after the victims spoke out, which is.

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Speaker 5: You know, particularly rich if you will, because President Trump,

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Speaker 5: when he was campaigning, he made a lot of promises

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Speaker 5: to do what he is now covering up. In June

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Speaker 5: of twenty twenty four, this was on the social media

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Speaker 5: account of Trump's campaigns organization, and the caption was President

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Speaker 5: Trump says he will declassify all caps the nine one

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Speaker 5: one files, JFK files, and Epstein files. And that was

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Speaker 5: said multiple multiple times during the campaign, and of course

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Speaker 5: now that has switched and he now obviously calling this

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Speaker 5: these women's real experiences a HOOKX.

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Speaker 3: Wow. This is to your crime.

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Speaker 4: Tonight on iHeart Radio, I'm Body Moven and I'm here

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Speaker 4: with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker, and we're kind of

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Speaker 4: unpacking the victims that have given a press conference in

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Speaker 4: the Jeffrey Epstein Glene Maxwell case. If you want to

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Speaker 4: wig and give us a call. Eighty eight thirty one

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Speaker 4: Crime or hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeart

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Speaker 4: Radio app while So, you know, I really think that

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Speaker 4: this is a pox on both of our houses. Right,

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Speaker 4: there's we know for sure there's people of high political status,

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Speaker 4: probably from all over the world in these files, not

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Speaker 4: just the United States of America. Right, there might be

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Speaker 4: a high you know, Canadian and there for all I know,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean, like, no offense to Canada,

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Speaker 4: I love you all. I'm just saying like there's probably

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Speaker 4: from each nation there's probably powerful people and.

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Speaker 3: Banks and oh yes, of course, I leant for sure say.

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Speaker 2: I mean we're we're seeing JP Morgan was being brought

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Speaker 2: up into this.

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Speaker 3: I mean these are Deutsche Bang.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a very very influential, powerful entities.

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Speaker 5: Right, And let's not forget that was the crux of

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Speaker 5: or a large part of how Jeffrey Ebstein and Gleeen

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Speaker 5: Maxwell made their connection that lasted for so many years,

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Speaker 5: was that Gilleen Maxwell, you know, grew up and was

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Speaker 5: a socialite who had access to many influential and powerful people.

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Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein craved that more than anything. From everything that's

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Speaker 5: been reported and spoken about people who've known him, and

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Speaker 5: she was able to bring him into circles, and he

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Speaker 5: was able to bring her into money which she had

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Speaker 5: lost when her family lost its money. And then from there,

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Speaker 5: if you believe everyone who has spoken out about their truth,

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Speaker 5: you know, and went on then for decades.

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Speaker 2: And we're talking about a human trafficking ring that is

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Speaker 2: potentially worldwide, that has been going on for decades, potentially

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Speaker 2: by sicknific fiant leaders of our world. And that's not

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Speaker 2: just in politics, right, that is leaders, whether they are financial,

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Speaker 2: whether they are in tech. These are the biggest, the

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Speaker 2: industry leaders, industry leaders, religious leaders. We don't know because

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Speaker 2: again it's being held so sacredly, and they ask us

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Speaker 2: very simple transparency. We know there are flight logs, we

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Speaker 2: know there have been there's been tapes. You know, we

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00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: saw the FBI leaving you know, Epstein's residents at the

439
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: time of his arrest with you know, all these videotapes

440
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: and CDs.

441
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 3: And surveillance footage.

442
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: We know that there were home you know, many conversations

443
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: about the idea that potentially Jeffrey Epstein allegedly, allegedly allegedly

444
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: was you know, essentially doing what Diddy was once accused

445
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: of which was having cameras fixated in places that would

446
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: put notorious and famous leaders in compromising pusicians potentially with

447
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: women that were not their wives, or underage or or

448
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 2: or and that potentially that information would be used against them.

449
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 3: And if that is the case.

450
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 4: That is very big, you know, I have to say,

451
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 4: and this is I feel like I'm gonna I'm burning

452
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 4: from the inside. But I watched the press conference. It

453
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 4: was very bypowers and there was, of course, there was

454
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: a Democratic representative and a Republican And I have to say,

455
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 4: when Marjorie Taylor Green spoke, I believed her.

456
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 3: You did? I believed her? How did you talk for me? Well?

457
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: That just that just shows that were overlasted. I thought

458
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: the same thing.

459
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: And she basically is saying she gives me putting her

460
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: She's putting her job on the line, as are all

461
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 2: of them that are are you know, Republican Republicans that

462
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: are speaking out against perhaps who they voted for, are

463
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: are working in tandem to basically asking for transparency from

464
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: the White House, who ultimately can make the call here.

465
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: You know, sharing information that's already been in the public

466
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: domain is not particularly satisfying, right, So sharing Gilan Maxwell's

467
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 2: most recent interviews with you know, law enforcement or government

468
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 2: officials in today's current time is also not interesting because

469
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: she probably will say whatever she needs to to get released, right.

470
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 3: So what.

471
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 2: She got indicted though, and she was found guilty based

472
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: on what why are we not seeing those charges? And

473
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: why are we protecting any names any? Why are we

474
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: protecting any names?

475
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 3: The end? How bad must it be?

476
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: And by the way, this goes back for decades again

477
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: further proving the point that this is not partisan. If

478
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: there was a huge smoking gun that made all the

479
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: Republicans look bad, I'm pretty darn sure that the Democrats

480
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: would we havn't it loud.

481
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 4: And clear out and about yeah, like Mama would have

482
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 4: released it.

483
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: And by the way, and vice versa.

484
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: Well, the fact that really going on for incoming and

485
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 2: incoming and incoming, you know, that is I guess what's

486
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: becoming particularly troubling, right, And.

487
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 3: That's why we stopped happening again.

488
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: And by the way, we heard also today from several

489
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: of these victims that they went to authorities, their their

490
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: their narratives were taken in, were written down, and nothing

491
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: was done. So many girls could have been saved, perhaps

492
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: some of the suicides that have happened since this time

493
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: also could have been prevented because nothing happened.

494
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: Why right, Annie Farmer, she's now forty six, She's one

495
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 4: of the victims. She says she was taken to New

496
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 4: Mexico at age sixteen. Think about remember the New Mexico

497
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: connection that you were talking about last night, yes show,

498
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 4: Oh that's right exactly. So she said she was sixteen.

499
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: She said her sister report the abuse, but nothing was done.

500
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: So just to what you were saying, Yeah, the abuses

501
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 4: were reported, and you know, nothing ever came of it,

502
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 4: ever absolute.

503
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 5: Well, just like nothing material happened to Jeffrey Epstein for

504
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 5: when he was you know, brought up on charges.

505
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 4: In Palm Beach, right, that's right exactly. So for those

506
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 4: that don't know, he did get indicted, but he had

507
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: like it was kind of like work release, right.

508
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

509
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: Alex Acosta, who was the former US attorney at that time,

510
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: which I believe was in two thousand and seven to

511
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: two thousand and.

512
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: Eight, gave him a real sweet deal.

513
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: Hey, you're a convicted sex predator, but you're going to

514
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: get to go to work every day.

515
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 3: You can leave at your will.

516
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: Go work at your office, actually have access to.

517
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: Other young girls.

518
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and then he would just have to go

519
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: to his low security spot and like have a good

520
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: night's rest, and then he'd be off to the races. Again,

521
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: who does that fly for? What sexual predator should that

522
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: apply to? And by the way, what level of public

523
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: safety has not been taken into consideration for everyone around

524
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: him at that time? By the way, that was just

525
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: the beginning. From there, Jeffrey Epstein went on to do many, many,

526
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: many bad things, according to testimony. So had that been

527
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: nipped in the butt, then maybe this would be less

528
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 2: of an issue in West Palm Beach. But that's not

529
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: where it ended. The story just continued until he it

530
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: was eventually, you know, eventually air quotes committed.

531
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: Suicide allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

532
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 4: I feel like this is a turning point. Do you

533
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 4: guys feel like this might be a turning point?

534
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: It feels like it is. I'm almost afraid to say it.

535
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: And again, we're not looking to perpetuate anything fearful. I

536
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: just think we all have to sort of put our

537
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: shoulders back. Yeah, let's prepare for you know, let's prepare

538
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: for it. So Listen, we're going to be unpacking body

539
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: moving experience on Don't f with Cats.

540
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: That's the incredible documentary she was a part of.

541
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: It really put you in the spotlight body and honestly

542
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: it's where I met you first, and I love you

543
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: so much and I'm so glad that we get this

544
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: benefit to actually really hear your version of this firsthand.

545
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: And then also there's been some tragedy burning Man, for example.

546
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: Burning Man is a really big festival in California.

547
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: I have met a friend of Mata.

548
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: Rather have many friends in California that go there and

549
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 2: they prepare for you know, weeks.

550
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 3: Months, almost constantly making costumes.

551
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: Yes, you wear costumes, you know, and some of them

552
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: are a little scantily clad, but you know you're waxed

553
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: your tan.

554
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: Exactly. You go there full throttle.

555
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: It's a commitment because it's not easy to get to

556
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: and you actually have to camp and set.

557
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: Up the mio the middle of nowhere totally, and.

558
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: It really does kind of speak to ours, right. This

559
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: is where you see installations and pop art, contemporary art.

560
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: I've actually never been because the second part of this

561
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: tale is probably why it also equally sounds horrifying and

562
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: deadlocked and scary, and here we are. That seems to

563
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: have been what has happened in this last round. There

564
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: was terrible weather, right, Courtney Armstrong, that's right, windstorms. Also

565
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: Nevada seems to have always this wacky weather at this time.

566
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: But you know, if you're a true Burning manner, you

567
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: weather the storm right, you go compell or high water.

568
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: You are there. You're playing all in.

569
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: You are committed and you are embracing the whatever the

570
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: thing comes your way until that involves murder.

571
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 5: So Courtney, yeah, this is a sad story. I mean,

572
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 5: you set the stage for what Burning Man is. It's

573
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 5: a week long festival, it's in Nevada's Black Rock desert,

574
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 5: and very sadly, you know, it took a grim turn

575
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 5: when there was an unidentified man at first and he

576
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 5: was discovered dead. And this was happening during the absolute

577
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: climax of this festival on the final weekend. So this man,

578
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 5: his name, excuse my pronunciation, it's Vadim Kruglove. He is

579
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 5: a Russian national. And honestly, his pictures I've seen pictures

580
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 5: of this man and he just looks sporty and outdoorsy

581
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 5: and blonde and happy in the pictures and it's been

582
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 5: deemed a homicide. So a homicide did happen, and sheriff's

583
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 5: officials came out and said, although this act does appear

584
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 5: to be a singular crime, all participant pints should always

585
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 5: be vigilant of surroundings and acquaintances because there is so much.

586
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 5: There's so much going on, and no one's where they

587
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 5: live because they're out in the desert, so you're not.

588
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: Gonna they're camping. And there's also a lot of drug

589
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 2: use there. Candid speaking, people are on hallucinogenics.

590
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: You know. Again, no one's looking to fight.

591
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: They're all looking to love and be at peace and

592
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: enjoy art. But there's a little of that, if not

593
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 2: a lot of that culturally speaking, at that time, even

594
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: those that are not drug users go to Burning Man

595
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: and they're like, Okay, it's fine.

596
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: To just this weekend. Right.

597
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: So imagine you're, you know, seventy thousand cars in because

598
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: that's so many cars it takes to get into Burning

599
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: Man and you build your big you know thing. They're

600
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: these they call them installations. So yeah, there's they usually

601
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: want big. Yeah, like you've seen the Burning Man it's

602
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: literally a man burning and but like it takes actual

603
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 2: man power in artists, in people community that you know,

604
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: they build it together. That's part of the fun and

605
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: the payoff is the play. So now a murder, good

606
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: luck with that crime scene investigation. What a mess it is.

607
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 5: It's very tricky and you know, you speak of these

608
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 5: installations and some people they literally work on it for

609
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 5: you know, one year, fifty one weeks out of the

610
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 5: year to then go and put it up, uh for

611
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 5: the week of Burning Man. And Kruglov's friends have said

612
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 5: he he poured his soul into the Burning Man community,

613
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 5: he built camp, he created art installation. They said, this

614
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 5: man was always ready to help others kind. So it's

615
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 5: it's a real loss. Obviously, do they know how he died?

616
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 5: Just homicide, there's no.

617
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 3: Which is he just turns up, a body turns up.

618
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: And now imagine you're also a fellow attendee of this beautiful,

619
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: really longstanding historic event that happens every year at this

620
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: exact same time. So again the community gets excited to

621
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: see each other again next year. So there is a

622
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: real love vest happening here. Now there's a murder. You

623
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: can't go anywhere, because you're kind of deadlocked in a

624
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: way if your car is parked there, like it's not

625
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 2: an easy exit, and you're sort of living off the

626
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: land a little.

627
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 3: Bit, so technically you're in peril. What do you do?

628
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 3: And how do you enjoy the rest of the event?

629
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 7: Right?

630
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 4: This is True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

631
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 4: crime all the time. I'm buddy move in and I'm

632
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 4: here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker.

633
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: And guess what, guys, we have a caller. We have

634
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: Glenn Hi. Glens, Glenn.

635
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 11: Hi. My point is the Epstein fouls. Trump is scared

636
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 11: to death about what they might reveal. He is shaking

637
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 11: in his boots, and that's why he's trying to eliminate.

638
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: And what do we do though, if that's the case,

639
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 2: Because what do you agree, Glenn that if it was

640
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: only Trump, then technically the administration prior would have, you know,

641
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: held that banner loud and clear and released the files.

642
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 2: But like, why hasn't anyone released the files even the

643
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: previous generation. We heard from Pam Bondi that yeah, Trump

644
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: is you know, in the files, the context of which

645
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: we have no idea. Maybe they were just you know,

646
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: you know, bowling partners or something completely non scary or suspicious.

647
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: But it's such a scary thought, Glenn.

648
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 5: It really is. Thank you so much for calling Glenn.

649
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 5: We really appreciate your comment. And you know, I think

650
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 5: there is definitely substance to it.

651
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 8: Find out.

652
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: I do too.

653
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 4: I think that Glenn definitely is onto something, you know,

654
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 4: I I really do.

655
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 12: So.

656
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: I have some LISK news though, Oh bring, okay, so

657
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 3: the long listen.

658
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: I'm not allowed to say it Bring.

659
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: I'm not allowed to tell us yes because I can't

660
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 4: say it. I cannot say Long Island serial killer for

661
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 4: whatever reason. It's like a tongue twister to me. But

662
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 4: I have news, So I'm gonna say the Lisk, okay,

663
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 4: because I can say the Lisk.

664
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: All right.

665
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 4: So this is a major development, all right. There was

666
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 4: a hearing today, it's called a fry hearing, to determine

667
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 4: whether or not this new advancement in DNA would be

668
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 4: allowed in the Lisk trial. Okay, Now, this is super

669
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 4: important that it gets admitted, right. So they had this

670
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 4: fry hearing today and guess what the judge said. It

671
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 4: is admissible. So this is new. This is new for

672
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 4: the state of New York and so that this is

673
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 4: not only going to affect this case, but every case

674
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 4: that comes after it now.

675
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 8: Right.

676
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 4: So Rex Huerman, he is a or he was a

677
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 4: New York City architect. He stands up accused of murdering

678
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 4: seven women, possibly eleven. They're still trying to figure out

679
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: the links. Seven women between nineteen ninety three and two

680
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 4: thy eleven. This one on for decades, but their remains

681
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 4: discovered in and around Giggle Beach, Long Island. So after

682
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 4: his twenty twenty three arrests, prosecutors pursued the case using

683
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 4: both traditional like forensic methods and new DNA technology now

684
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 4: permitted in a New York courtroom for the first time.

685
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 3: I have to jump in. Yeah, he's going to take

686
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: a plea deal.

687
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think so there's no way he's surviving.

688
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 3: I agree, he's going to take a plea deal and

689
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:44,959
Speaker 3: it's going to be soon.

690
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 4: But the thing, well, I don't know. There's all death

691
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 4: penalty in New York. Okay, so there's no Yeah, there's

692
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 4: no Like. Here's the thing. You either you either take

693
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 4: your chance and maybe you'll have somebody that has reasonable doubt,

694
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 4: or you take a plea deal. Now, in cases where

695
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 4: there's a death penalty, it's like you take a chance

696
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 4: and you die, right, So that's like a little bit

697
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: more like Ooh, I better take this plea deal, you know.

698
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 4: But I do think it might happen, Stephanie, to your point,

699
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 4: I definitely do. This is just very big today, very big.

700
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 5: Do you know what was the question of the evidence body?

701
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 8: Yeah?

702
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 3: Well kind of. I tried to do a little bit

703
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 3: of research on Listen.

704
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 4: I'm not a scientist, you know what I mean, Like

705
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: I would really like to talk to like a DNA

706
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 4: expert to kind of maybe dumb it down to that pace.

707
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 4: That would be so great because I would really like

708
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 4: to learn more about it. But my understanding is they

709
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 4: had mitochondrial DNA, which is like the traditional methods of DNA,

710
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 4: and then they wanted to do they had they found

711
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 4: they found hairs that didn't have a root, and they

712
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 4: wanted to link those victims with those unrooted hair to

713
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 4: rex Huerman and they did that by basically building a genome. Okay,

714
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 4: and they use this company in California that kind of

715
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,959
Speaker 4: builds this genome based on the hair without a root,

716
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 4: and so they have to basically assess and like kind

717
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 4: of extrapolate this genome.

718
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 3: Sequencing very major.

719
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: It'smatively the first time this is ever happening in a

720
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: case like this.

721
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 4: The prosecution or the state, I should say, the state

722
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 4: argued that it is admissible in other states like California

723
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 4: and Idaho, for instance. It is admissible in those states,

724
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 4: and so New York needs to kind of catch up.

725
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 4: And the judge agreed, the judge of greed. So I

726
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 4: thought that was really interesting. But you know, there were

727
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 4: there are people who disagreed. You know, there's experts on

728
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 4: both sides who say, you know, this is not a

729
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 4: good thing. You know, they say the company who did

730
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: this genome building kind of estimated too much.

731
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 8: Oh to go.

732
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 4: Right, And then there's experts on the other side that say, no,

733
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 4: this is how it's done. They did a great job.

734
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 4: So it's kind of like, who do you believe, right,

735
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 4: while the judge believed the state. So yeah, which is

736
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 4: a major win for the prosecution.

737
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: And think about it.

738
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: Also, there was something kind of complicated, correct me if

739
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: I'm wrong that his wife. So Rex Humorman, the accused

740
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: who's currently serving time behind bars, has a wife and

741
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: two children, This house that they all lived in has

742
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: been under much discussion. You know, we've seen images of it.

743
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 2: I'm actually I grew up not too far from the area.

744
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: Their house is a real it's a strange house. It

745
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: is on the block, right, So especially architect. Yeah, this

746
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: guy was an architect who was like taking the Long

747
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 2: Island railroad to and from work every day to Oyster Bay,

748
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 2: Long Island. You know, he was a commuter and would

749
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: do so with his daughter. So now daughter and mom,

750
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,479
Speaker 2: who have never been brought up on charges, are brought

751
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: into this case in any single way, are somehow kind

752
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: of being linked to this because of DNA.

753
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

754
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 4: Body, Yeah, from my understanding, and I and I'd have

755
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: to go back and look again, but my understanding is

756
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 4: that some of the daughter's hair or the wife's hair

757
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 4: or maybe both even were found in some of these

758
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 4: burlaps or on the victim's bodies or near the victim's bodies.

759
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 3: So or the belt.

760
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 4: Even that was found. They found a belt. But you

761
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 4: know there they did have a lot more evidence too.

762
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 4: They had like all the cell phones. For instance, one

763
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 4: of the victims, he took her cell phone from her,

764
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 4: like after he killed her and checked checked her voicemail

765
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 4: from an area near his home, which the victim lived

766
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 4: nowhere near you know what I mean? Like, why would

767
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 4: her cell phone be used to check her voicemail near

768
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 4: his home after she died? Right, So there's there's a

769
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: lot of different things. And then you know, he he

770
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 4: also would he would also harass one of the victims

771
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 4: families and he would call, oh my gosh, that's right, right,

772
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 4: And that also came from a burner that was near

773
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 4: his home and by the way, was near his office

774
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 4: in Manhattan, So not only was it near his home,

775
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 4: but also traveled to Manhattan with him at the office

776
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 4: and made more.

777
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: Calls and went to work with this guy. By the way,

778
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 2: he's also a bajillion feet tall. He was calling one

779
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 2: of the larger men that's ever existed, and witness testimony

780
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: would suggest that he was in air quotes ogre and

781
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 2: oversized in very large holy tracks and the belt buckle

782
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: that has his father's initials on it also found by

783
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: the scene. And these burlap bags and women found in them.

784
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: All seemed to happen when his wife was on vacation,

785
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 2: and by the vacation she was like visiting her family.

786
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was in Iceland.

787
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: She was like going to like visit her immediate family.

788
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: And then by the way, she has stood by her

789
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: man and claims that he remains innocent despite their divorce

790
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: and parting of ways, likely for financial reasons. And imagine

791
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: daughter son, You know this is their dad. They love him, right,

792
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: do you guys know?

793
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 5: I can't remember if if you are divorced, are you

794
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 5: do you still have no obligation to go on the

795
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 5: stand and speak against your former spouse.

796
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 3: That's such a great question. I think, do you lose

797
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 3: that privilege?

798
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 4: That's okay, so she can plea the fifth though, I

799
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 4: mean she doesn't have to say anything.

800
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: So meaning is to kind of unpack that Courtney or

801
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 2: I'm strong, you're suggesting that because husband and wives have privilege,

802
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 2: meaning I do not have to ever testify against my

803
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: husband if he has given me any information, including that

804
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 2: about murder.

805
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 3: Does that still real? That still a thing?

806
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 13: Yes?

807
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 3: Spousal privilege, espousal privilege? Why do we have spousal privilege?

808
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 13: Exactly?

809
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 3: It's such a weird rule. But whatever.

810
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: Moving on from that, I'm just not I don't know

811
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: enough about it. But secondly, if they get divorced. Now

812
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: their finances are no longer tethered together.

813
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: But yeah, could she testify?

814
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 14: I know.

815
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: It's been slightly a heavy night.

816
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of new developments in the Epstein

817
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: Gilain Maxwell case, many survivors coming forward. It's becoming very controversial.

818
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 2: If it hasn't been already, If you've missed any of

819
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: the show, No Sweat, just check out the first hour

820
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: as a podcast right after this, but also join the

821
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: conversation eight at eight three to one crime or hit

822
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 2: us up on our socials, on our True Crime Tonight

823
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 2: app on the iHeartRadio app. It just you push the

824
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: right hand button in the right hand corner of the

825
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: screen and boom, you were on the show, and listen.

826
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 3: We want to hear your opinion about all of it.

827
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: So we're finally entering a stage where we get to

828
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: hear about Body and her experience in Don't f with

829
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 2: Cats that's coming up in.

830
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 3: Just a bit. Why do you look so surprised? Body?

831
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: Just nervous? I don't like why do you feel.

832
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 4: I don't have any problems talking about other people like

833
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 4: you know you guys know I'm a bit.

834
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 3: Of a gossip. Eyes just popped out of your head,

835
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 3: I know, like just you know, it's just.

836
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: I like talking about other people, not me. Oh well

837
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 2: a very safe again, safe room. We're in a safe room,

838
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 2: safe audience. But it's just really interesting to hear sort

839
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: of your your behind the scenes to sure right, which

840
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 2: is a little different than maybe what we all got

841
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: to watch on the dock. And it's also where I

842
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: first met you. So selfishly, I want to unpack and

843
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: give you a proper platform to talk about your experience.

844
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 4: And plus I'm going to share some exclusive stuff about

845
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 4: the case that wasn't shared in the documentary that I

846
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 4: always thought was like super important but for whatever reason,

847
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 4: got caught out by the show exactly to.

848
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 5: Do sirs, that's why Dunn Dunn Armstrong.

849
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: Is there something that you want to cover first?

850
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I would actually love to hop into the

851
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 5: Barry Morphew case.

852
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 8: So this guy, if.

853
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 5: You remember, he is accused of murdering his wife, Suzanne.

854
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 5: She went on an alleged beautiful Mother's Day bike ride

855
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty and then her remains were discovered in

856
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 5: a shallow grave years later. Initially, the case was dismissed.

857
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 5: That was due to insufficient evidence and there was I

858
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 5: believe some legal stuff that went on that was not

859
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 5: good at all. However, he was re indicted by a

860
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 5: grand jury, Barry Morphew, and this was just in June

861
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. This was following discovery of forensic findings.

862
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 5: Well in news that I feel is good, a judge

863
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 5: has denied Barry Morphew's bail reduction, which the I mean, listen,

864
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 5: innocent until proven guilty. That is the country in which

865
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 5: we live. So I guess fight every battle you can.

866
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 5: But he was denied, nonetheless.

867
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: Right denied, Yeah.

868
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 5: And you know it comes with a However, however, they

869
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 5: did allow a special kind of bond option and that

870
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 5: can maybe keep some of the money. He can work

871
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 5: it out with the bail bondsman instead of paying the

872
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 5: full amount in cash.

873
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,720
Speaker 4: You know, we should remind viewers about her body because

874
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 4: it's very interesting. So if you don't know, this case

875
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 4: is as Courtney mentioned, you know, she went for Suzanne

876
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 4: went for a bike ride and you know, disappeared. Basically,

877
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 4: they found her bike and for years her body wasn't found.

878
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 8: Yep.

879
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 4: Well, when they found her body, she was in a

880
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 4: shallow grave like you mentioned, and it appeared that her

881
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 4: clothes had been changed, right, so basically her body had

882
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 4: been moved, and they know this because of the lack

883
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 4: of you know, critters, bugs roads in her her bones

884
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 4: had been bleached, and you know, there's been a lot

885
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 4: of talk about her bones being bleached. Initially, you know

886
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 4: Barry Morphew, he was in a hotel room, you know,

887
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 4: he was a landscaper and he was on a wark

888
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 4: trip I'm using air quotes right now, on a work

889
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 4: trip when she went missing, and the hotel room.

890
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 3: He was in smelled like bleach, it was reported.

891
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 4: And so when the report came out that her bones

892
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 4: had been bleached, my first thought was bones had been bleached.

893
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 3: Her hotel room smelled like bleach.

894
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 4: Well, when we had Joseph Scott Morgan on the show,

895
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 4: he informed us that meant that the sun had been

896
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 4: bearing down on her body at some point. Well, now

897
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 4: there's talk again on the internet, not through official channels,

898
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,439
Speaker 4: but on the internet that know it is bleach. They're

899
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 4: talking about like the chemical of some kind. And I'm like, okay, well.

900
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 3: What's true. I don't know yet, we don't know.

901
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 4: We're gonna find out, I mean, obviously through this court,

902
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 4: but I just thought, you know, it was really interesting

903
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 4: to remind viewers of like her body had been moved

904
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 4: and redressed after she decomposed.

905
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, which is crazy, and that's a really interesting I

906
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 5: did not know that there was now not backlash, but

907
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 5: knew chatter about the bleaching of the bones because I

908
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 5: remember clearly right.

909
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 8: And also as.

910
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 5: A reminder and why I rolled my eyes about this

911
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 5: guy getting bail or getting off, is that Suzanne Morphew,

912
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 5: his wife, in her autopsy, it was revealed that it's

913
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 5: called bam bam chemicals were found in her bone marrow.

914
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 5: So it's a combination of tranquilizers that are used on deer. Okay,

915
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 5: Barry Morphew up for her crime, and her husband at

916
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 5: the time is an avid hunter, and they allege that

917
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 5: he used this tranquilizer to incapacitate and ultimately kill Suzanne.

918
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 5: And this tranquilizer is incredibly rare, and I believe Barry

919
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 5: might have been one of the only people, if not

920
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 5: the only person in.

921
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 4: The state that you have, right, it's a license for it,

922
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 4: and he's one of the one of the only ones

923
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 4: in like the southwestern area of Colorado to have access

924
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 4: to it.

925
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 3: So just let that sink in.

926
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: You have to actually apply and actually get a license,

927
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,919
Speaker 2: which anybody who's done that knows no easy task. That's

928
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 2: a real thing, but it is a real trace back

929
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: to him specifically, and that's hard to get around. And

930
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: by the way, they have two children together now, adults

931
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: who love him and have stood by him most of

932
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: their lives, even having lost their mother in such tragedy.

933
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 2: And the idea that he may have been at the

934
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: hand of not only her murder, but to be redressing

935
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 2: her body and replacing her into the place that she

936
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: would be found on Mother's Day is it's really it's

937
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: impossible to imagine it is.

938
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 5: I'm gonna the very last thing I will say about this,

939
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 5: and then we're going to continue as the case itself continues.

940
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:37,280
Speaker 5: But during this court appearance about the bond, Suzanne Morphy's brother,

941
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 5: David Mormon, he submitted a really powerful victim's impact statement

942
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 5: and he said, quote, he has a flight risk and

943
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 5: serial psycho psychopathic controller all in the realm of his influence,

944
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 5: and also that Barry Morphew is a soulless, sadistic, a

945
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 5: moral predator.

946
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 8: The redemption here.

947
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 3: Wow, so you really, you really cut it.

948
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 8: He hammered that home.

949
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 5: If you have anything to say about the Morphew case,

950
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 5: or if you want to get on the line and

951
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 5: start preparing your questions for Body about the upcoming don't

952
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 5: f with kats Unpack.

953
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 8: Give us a call.

954
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 5: We are here on True crime tonight and Body, you

955
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 5: as well had a pretty big update.

956
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 8: I believe in Donna Edelson.

957
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 4: The matriarchre murderer. Right, So Donald, should we give a brief.

958
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 4: There's a lot of players in this case, Okay, so.

959
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 2: A ton of players, and you do a very good

960
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 2: job at writing it out.

961
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 4: So Donna Adelson, she is the mother in law of

962
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 4: Dan Markle, and he Dan Markle is he was I'm sorry,

963
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 4: he's the victim. He was a Harvard educated law professor

964
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 4: at Florida State University. He was fatally shot in his

965
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 4: Tallahassee garage in twenty fourteen. Prosecutors are alleging that his

966
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 4: ex wife's mother, okay, his ex wife's mother, Donna Adelson,

967
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 4: masterminded this killing to resolve this contentious custody dispute and

968
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 4: relocate her grandchildren to South Florida, where she lived. Because

969
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 4: he lived up in Tallahassee and wouldn't let his ex wife,

970
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 4: Wendy take the kids down south.

971
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,919
Speaker 3: She told the judge she had.

972
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 4: A new job down there, new opportunities and whatnot, and

973
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 4: the judge said, no, you can't take the kids, and

974
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, Dan ends up dead.

975
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 5: Okay, and Dan mark hell just because I was actually

976
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 5: corrected by a friend who knew the victim.

977
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

978
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, so she is again. She's the former mother in law.

979
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 4: She's charged with first degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation in

980
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 4: the murder for higher plot and basically what happened. She

981
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 4: has a son named Charlie and he's a dentist and

982
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 4: he's been convicted in the murder already. And his girlfriend,

983
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 4: who was affiliated with the Latin Kings at one point,

984
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 4: she's been convicted already. And then the two hitmen they hired,

985
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 4: they've been convicted already. So four people are already kind

986
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 4: of you know, languishing in prison or this murder. All right,

987
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 4: And what's really interesting about this case is they the

988
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 4: FBI did this what's called a bump. I love this technique,

989
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 4: so I want to I want to bring it up again.

990
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 4: That's okay, So they kind of after after the first

991
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 4: two people that got arrested were the gang members, the hitmen. Okay,

992
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 4: after they got arrested, they all went quiet, all right,

993
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 4: And the FBI and the police knew that there were

994
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 4: others involved because somebody had to hire these hitmen, right,

995
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 4: somebody had to and they knew it was, you know,

996
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 4: the Adelson family. Well, they had suspicions, so but they

997
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 4: went quiet. So what they did was they kind of

998
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 4: did this what's called a bump. They basically spooped them

999
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: into speaking. So what they did was they a pro

1000
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 4: Donna who's on trial right now, the grandmother, Granny, Granny

1001
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 4: Mury killer Granny. They approached her and they handed her

1002
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 4: a flyer and the flyer had the victim's face on it,

1003
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 4: a picture and a phone number and five thousand dollars

1004
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 4: and that's all they that's all. They just handed the

1005
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 4: flyer and left. Well, that spooked Donna like, oh my god, somebody,

1006
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 4: somebody that's not law enforcement knows I'm involved.

1007
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 3: I start making phone calls. And that's what she did.

1008
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,479
Speaker 4: Okay, they started they all started panicking and making phone

1009
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 4: calls to one another and having secret dinners and secret

1010
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 4: conversations and using cold words and whatnot.

1011
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 3: I feel like.

1012
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 5: The FBI's bomb is their term for, you know, stirring

1013
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 5: the pot.

1014
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 4: It's a perfect explanation. So the trial started, we're now

1015
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 4: the defense. We we've covered this case up until the

1016
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 4: defense started. So the defense started their case this week, okay,

1017
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 4: and I kind of wanted to go over what's going

1018
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 4: on in the defense situation. So it's only been a

1019
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 4: couple of days and they're done already. So the defense

1020
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 4: rested today and they didn't really put on much of

1021
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 4: a case. I'm gonna tell you right now, and I

1022
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 4: shared with you this goofy lawyer of hers already.

1023
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 3: Oh, in that my suit, in that suit.

1024
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I am not one to criticize what anyone wears.

1025
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 5: You should see what's doing on this end of the microphone. However,

1026
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 5: I am not in court and I am not wearing

1027
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 5: a suit nineteen sizes too large.

1028
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 3: It was crazy.

1029
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 4: She looks like a little child that put on daddy's suit, right,

1030
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 4: Like you know how your kids put on your your

1031
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 4: clothes and they're like kind of walking around in shoes

1032
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 4: that are too big and the sleeves are kind of

1033
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 4: this is what her lawyer looks like.

1034
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 3: I it's insane. AnyWho, I digress. It's not important. It's

1035
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 3: just kind of gossiping, isn't it.

1036
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 14: So?

1037
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 4: Anyway, So day seven, which was Tuesday yesterday, all right,

1038
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 4: the defense began presenting presenting is that a word?

1039
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 3: Presenting its case with a.

1040
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 4: Key testimony from witnesses, okay, and who described you know,

1041
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 4: Donna as distraught and not hateful after his murder. So

1042
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 4: they're saying, you know, after she was notified about her

1043
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 4: son in law's murder, she was really distraught about it. Okay,

1044
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 4: she acted like surprise, she acted upset about it.

1045
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 5: You know.

1046
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 3: Again, this is the defense, and you know, so it's

1047
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 3: kind of like goes to her character, right.

1048
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: But also she could also have committed a crime and

1049
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 2: still felt remorseful and scared and missing him. Like I

1050
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 2: feel like sometimes both of those things can.

1051
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 3: Be true at the same time. I do too.

1052
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 4: I'm sure I do too, or maybe like, oh my god,

1053
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 4: I can't believe they did it, or you know, I can't.

1054
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 3: Believe we pulled it off. You know, it could be

1055
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 3: that kind of thing.

1056
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 8: You have to imagine.

1057
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, the real interesting thing that happened was what was

1058
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 4: Donna going to testify? Right, everybody always wonders if the

1059
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 4: defendant is going to speak on their own behalf right. Well,

1060
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 4: she mean, there was kind of like this big production

1061
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 4: about her. She was like, I have a cided yet,

1062
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 4: or you know, let me, I need an extension to

1063
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 4: consider it, right, you know, I'm paraphrasing, and you know,

1064
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 4: so the judge was like, okay, So there was kind

1065
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 4: of like a little in extension. Well today, after the extension,

1066
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 4: she declined to testify. So a close friend of Donna's

1067
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 4: testified that in her November twenty twenty three flight to Vietnam, Remember,

1068
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 4: Donna was arrested flying to Vietnam because they don't extradite

1069
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 4: to the United States of America.

1070
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: With her husband, so they weren't trying to allegedly allegedly

1071
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 2: aggedly get the heck out a dodge by going to

1072
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 2: a place that will not send them back to the

1073
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 2: US to face charges. And they were like, I think

1074
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 2: he was actually brought into custody as well. Husbands, Yeah,

1075
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 2: I think my brain either way, the two of them

1076
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: were deplaned and Granny got arrested, right.

1077
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 4: So a close friend of Granny, Donna testified that, you know,

1078
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 4: this flight was just intended as a vacation and not.

1079
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 3: An attempt to flee pross secution.

1080
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 4: Another defense witness, they disputed the credibility of these jailhouse

1081
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 4: informants that saying that Donna confessed to them in the

1082
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 4: murder and attempt to buy false testimony. So basically the

1083
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 4: jailhouse informants are not credible. We shouldn't believe them. So tomorrow,

1084
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 4: you guys, today the defense rest the jury will be

1085
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 4: sent home for the day. They've already gone home and

1086
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 4: closings are going to be tomorrow, and I cannot wait.

1087
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: To start watching them. I'm may im forward to it

1088
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 3: like it's going to be really good. We'll take you

1089
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 3: informed on that for sure.

1090
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 8: Yes, I cannot wait.

1091
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 5: But what I also cannot wait for is after the

1092
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 5: commercial break it is true crime and chill, and we

1093
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 5: of course are discussing the iconic do not f with

1094
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 5: Kats with Body and move in, keep it here and

1095
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 5: don't forget to call eight eight eight three to one.

1096
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 8: Crime True Crime Tonight.

1097
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and I Heeart Radio.

1098
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 2: We've been talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie

1099
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 2: Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and listen.

1100
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: We're trying to switch up some gears here, heavy night,

1101
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 2: a lot of Epstein talk. We're trying to make it

1102
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: a little bit more, a little less, I should say heavy.

1103
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 2: So body move in and her experience on don'n F

1104
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: with Kats is coming up.

1105
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 3: But first we have a caller, Edward. Thank you for calling.

1106
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 3: We're so happy to have you. What's your question.

1107
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 7: I am so glad to get through. Oh, I just

1108
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 7: have I have some comments.

1109
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 3: All right, bring it first.

1110
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 7: First, I want to thank the Lord for having yourself, Stephanie,

1111
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 7: and and Courtney and Barny and all of the people

1112
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:02,439
Speaker 7: that all the people that few with the cases, they

1113
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 7: are all great. You keep it down to earth so

1114
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 7: that people can understand. And if you don't have the information,

1115
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 7: you investigate it. You don't just throw something out there

1116
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 7: that may not be the truth. You tell the truth.

1117
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 7: And I also want to I also want to apologize

1118
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,959
Speaker 7: to the Lord for what I'm about to say. This

1119
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 7: is on the Epstein case, with whether it was murder

1120
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 7: or suicide. I just want to apologize to the Lord

1121
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 7: for saying what I'm going to say. I hope that

1122
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 7: it was murdered because that means that some of the

1123
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 7: inmates in jail with him actually had morals. You don't.

1124
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 7: It's pot children, that's right, it's right, Edward.

1125
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 3: You should not exploit children.

1126
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 4: I think the Lord would forgive you. Thank you so

1127
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 4: much for the call, Edward, I really do. What a

1128
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 4: nice man.

1129
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 5: What a nice man, you know, coming from the side

1130
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 5: of the victim. The children's the children who are victims.

1131
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 5: So yes, I thank you, Edward.

1132
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 4: It was nervous all but when you said I'm going

1133
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 4: to apologize, so I got a little nervous. I thought,

1134
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 4: my you know, he was going to say something inappropriate.

1135
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 4: But he was so kind.

1136
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 8: My finger on the dump button, did you know?

1137
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 3: He was so kind? No, he was the sweetest. And

1138
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 3: thank you for the beautiful call.

1139
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 2: And I think Edward is symbolic of a lot, like

1140
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 2: so many people are feeling the same way. It's like

1141
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 2: everyone's just trying to find their compass and you know,

1142
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: speak from their hearts and follow the truth. And I

1143
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 2: like to believe that what happens in the dark eventually

1144
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 2: comes out in the light, and there's far more light

1145
01:04:57,840 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 2: we know this than dark.

1146
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think what Edward also is speaking

1147
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 5: to is that it's hard. It is a it is

1148
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 5: a struggle, and whether it's with the Lord or whomever

1149
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 5: you look to, including within yourself. Of you know, it's

1150
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 5: a conflicting feeling. If you wish poorly on someone. I mean,

1151
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 5: we've had conversation of if Brian Coberger right, but that

1152
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 5: comes from a place of this man is a convicted

1153
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 5: killer of stabbing to death for innocent people. But you know,

1154
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 5: it's conflicting. When should your food anyway, Edward, you.

1155
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 3: Spoke a lot of men too.

1156
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 2: We've gotten outreach and it's just so comforting. It just

1157
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 2: makes everybody realize that there is so much good in

1158
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 2: this world the end period like.

1159
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 3: Exclamation points, exclamation point.

1160
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 2: We talk about true crime because we want to unpack,

1161
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 2: we want to understand, we're curious, we want to stay

1162
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 2: say if it's important that we we bring this stuff

1163
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 2: out right, But more importantly, I think it's worth noting.

1164
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 2: I know that there is so much beautiful greatness in

1165
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 2: this world and light and we are all sort of

1166
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 2: trying to find our own path and given us light

1167
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 2: right there.

1168
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 5: So cheer together and listen, body, my buddy, oh buddy.

1169
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 3: Body, I was hoping we were going to stretch us

1170
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 3: out on you.

1171
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 8: I know you asked.

1172
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 5: Edward to call and say those beautiful things to try.

1173
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 3: Yes, but listen.

1174
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 8: Is body, My body's yeah.

1175
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 5: All right, let's start this out. Yeah, how did how

1176
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 5: did you get on? How did you be calmed? I

1177
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 5: won't even say get on? How did you become Don't

1178
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 5: Have with Cats the documentary? Did Network Netflix just give

1179
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 5: you a call?

1180
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 3: No, that's not how it works. You gways know that's

1181
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 3: not how work.

1182
01:06:56,720 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 4: So I got I got, I got an email from

1183
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 4: a guy named Billy Jensen. And Billy Jensen he I think.

1184
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 4: I don't know if he still is writing in true

1185
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 4: but he's basically a true crime author. And he was

1186
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 4: writing for Rolling Stone and he said, hey, I heard

1187
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 4: about you know, your story.

1188
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting.

1189
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 4: And this was in I think twenty thirteen, and I

1190
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 4: think it's really interesting and I think it would make

1191
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 4: a really interesting Rolling Stone story.

1192
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, whatever. So but then I

1193
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 3: looked into.

1194
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 4: Billy Jensen and I was like, oh, he's legit, right,

1195
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 4: So I replied to him and I'm like, okay, you know, we'll.

1196
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 3: Talk to you. So basically.

1197
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 4: We did this really long interview in rolling Stone magazine

1198
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 4: and come to find out, after it came out, it

1199
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 4: was one of the most read articles on the Rolling

1200
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 4: Stone website and they got a lot of feedback on it.

1201
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 8: So that's a big deal.

1202
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 5: By the way, I love I mean, Stephanie said cool stuff,

1203
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 5: which it is, and there I love.

1204
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it is really that's the perfect word.

1205
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 2: And they have an ability to make pop culture real

1206
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 2: time and also have some sort of overlay or delay

1207
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 2: in it, so that totally tracks.

1208
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 3: Right.

1209
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 4: So after they got the analytics you know on because

1210
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:26,679
Speaker 4: it was it was on their website and so after

1211
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 4: they got the analytics, they were like, oh, this might

1212
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 4: be something that you know, uh we could you know,

1213
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 4: people might be interested in watching. So uh they shopped

1214
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 4: it at south By Southwest, that film festival thing and whatnot.

1215
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 3: And I don't exactly know who like did this, like.

1216
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:51,560
Speaker 4: Who Robert Redford perhaps, Pedro Pascal.

1217
01:08:55,560 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 2: Show and Pago's on the Phonetix on it.

1218
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 4: And so I think what I think it was Netflix

1219
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 4: and a production company had the best proposal, you know,

1220
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 4: and this production company was Raw TV out of London,

1221
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 4: and so they approached us and I was like, yeah, whatever, sure, okay,

1222
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 4: and they were like, let us just come meet with you.

1223
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 4: Let us just come meet with you and talk to

1224
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 4: you about, you know, our idea. And I was like, okay,

1225
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 4: you know, I'm thinking I'm never going to hear from

1226
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 4: these people again. Well, next thing, I know. You know

1227
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 4: Mark Lewis, who is the director of Donut Foo Cats.

1228
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 4: He won an Emmy for her Donut with Cats and Felicity.

1229
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 4: She was the producer on the show she directed. She

1230
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 4: moved on, she got promoted. Basically, she directed Tinder Swindler

1231
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 4: and you know, she's become her own amazing success. Flew

1232
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 4: to Las Vegas from London and they knocked on my

1233
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 4: door and I was so impressed because they had this.

1234
01:09:59,360 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 3: They had this.

1235
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 4: Huge binders, binders like you know those big binders that

1236
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 4: you see in like banker's offices. Yeah, like six inches

1237
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 4: and they had binders and it was all of our

1238
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 4: investigative work. And they sat down at my kitchen table

1239
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 4: for about six hours and went over the premise of

1240
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 4: the show. And they were like, because John Green and

1241
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 4: I were really hesitant to do it because we didn't

1242
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 4: want to, you know, glorify Luca, right, Yes, that was

1243
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 4: the last thing we wanted to do and because you know,

1244
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 4: part of Luca's mo and you know, motive for all

1245
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 4: this was to pfame, Okay, and that's really evident, I

1246
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 4: hope in the documentary. So they had these The premise

1247
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 4: of the show was it was going to be our story,

1248
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,759
Speaker 4: not his, right, it was going to be our story.

1249
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 4: And what you know what transpired and we we find

1250
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 4: we agreed because we were really impressed with the research.

1251
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 4: I mean, they had binders and binders of the things

1252
01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 4: that we had done and I was like, oh my god,

1253
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 4: I forgot all about this, you know.

1254
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 2: Like, can I jump into documentary? Yeah, vibes, they're very good.

1255
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 2: So the names just names London included, like those are

1256
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:16,759
Speaker 2: really like reputable, extraordinary filmmakers and you're in good company,

1257
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 2: no good but the way I don't personally know them,

1258
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 2: but I know my reputation them and I know their work,

1259
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 2: right yours included? So big deal, Yeah, big massive deal.

1260
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 4: And you know I uh So we had one limitation

1261
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 4: or one clause, and that was that Luca wouldn't be

1262
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 4: in it. Luca was not going to be contacted about it.

1263
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 4: He wasn't going to be in it. Well, we had two.

1264
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,719
Speaker 4: I'm sorry we had two One was that Luca wouldn't

1265
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 4: be in it, and and the second one was that

1266
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 4: Junlin would be represented.

1267
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:50,480
Speaker 3: Julin was the victim.

1268
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 4: He was the in the man that Luca mc not

1269
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:59,680
Speaker 4: a murdered, and they were like done, no problem. Now

1270
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 4: it's it's one thing for like the victim. We wanted

1271
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,640
Speaker 4: somebody that knew the victim, that was close to the

1272
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 4: victim to tell his story, not us.

1273
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 3: We didn't know him.

1274
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 4: It would be really disingenuous for us to be like, oh,

1275
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 4: he was so wonderful, and I mean, by all appearances

1276
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 4: he appeared to be the most gracious man, just an

1277
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 4: angel on earth. But it would be it would be more,

1278
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 4: you know, genuine, to be coming from somebody that cared

1279
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 4: about and loved him.

1280
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 5: And knew him.

1281
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 3: Of course knew him.

1282
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 5: So body, I'm gonna pause you real quick because I

1283
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 5: actually I want to back up for one hot second

1284
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:38,520
Speaker 5: and listen. If any of you want to join our conversation,

1285
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 5: give us a call it true crime tonight. We are

1286
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 5: talking about the documentary Don't f With Kats won an

1287
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:51,679
Speaker 5: Emmy on Netflix. Of course, the center pillar is our

1288
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 5: co host.

1289
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 8: Body move in.

1290
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 3: I want Glenn to call back more Glenn.

1291
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 5: No, anyone who's listening if your name's Glenn or not?

1292
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 5: Eight A A three one crime. So body you're talking

1293
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 5: about Luca mcnatta, you talk about jen Lyn For anyone

1294
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 5: who has not participated in true crime and chill and

1295
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 5: hasn't seen Donough with cats? Are you able to give

1296
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 5: a real top synopsis of what the crime is?

1297
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, So a man was or a person we didn't

1298
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 4: know if it was a man or a woman was

1299
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 4: posting videos of themselves killing kittens and cats. In twenty

1300
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 4: ten and twenty eleven, there were several series of videos

1301
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 4: that were released and a group of people got together

1302
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 4: to try and find out who this person was and

1303
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,719
Speaker 4: contact the authorities and get them, you know.

1304
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 3: Arrested, talked to help whatever. Well, they moved on.

1305
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:02,719
Speaker 4: Despite our warnings to police that this person was threatening

1306
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 4: to kill people. They did move on to kill somebody.

1307
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 4: And his name was jen Lyin in May of twenty twelve,

1308
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 4: and he dismembered Juenlin. He cannibalized Jenlin, He sodomized Jenlin

1309
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:20,839
Speaker 4: and sent body parts to political parties in Canada. Basically

1310
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 4: the Prime Minister of Canada and schools in Vancouver and

1311
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 4: then fled to Europe and was captured in Berlin in

1312
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 4: June of twenty twelve. He was tried and convicted and

1313
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 4: he's currently in prison in Montreal, in Quebec, I should say,

1314
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 4: not Montreal. That's basically the synopsis. And because we were

1315
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 4: the ones that were trying to thank you, that was

1316
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 4: just top of head.

1317
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 3: To encapsulate a lot.

1318
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:48,719
Speaker 2: And by the way, I have to assume you guys

1319
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 2: have watched, but if you haven't, you're really missing out.

1320
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 2: And I say this like so from the bottom of

1321
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 2: my heart. I think I've said this before our show

1322
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:01,839
Speaker 2: and many other places. Body I watched at the beginning

1323
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 2: of COVID at the time Courtney and I.

1324
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 3: Making True Time. Yet we were.

1325
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 2: Making true crime documentaries and had just started making podcasts,

1326
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 2: and true crime was really becoming a piece of my

1327
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 2: personal DNA and certainly as a company.

1328
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 3: And I just happened to watch.

1329
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 2: This off the cuff, and I'm gonna be honest with you,

1330
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 2: it felt as though Body movin our very own was

1331
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:28,839
Speaker 2: legit speaking to me directly.

1332
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 3: That's how I experienced it. I really did.

1333
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 2: So No, I say that simply to say, and we're

1334
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 2: not easy audiences.

1335
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:40,639
Speaker 3: By the way, we make true crime docs, we watch

1336
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 3: all of them.

1337
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,879
Speaker 2: I feel like there's so many extraordinary people in the business,

1338
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:48,600
Speaker 2: in some of whom we're talking about right now. But

1339
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 2: it was one of those that as you, specifically as

1340
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 2: a human, I think really like spoke to my heart,

1341
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,679
Speaker 2: and I do think some decisions that were made as

1342
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 2: a company and as a person in moving forward were

1343
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 2: because of.

1344
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 3: Your influence in my heart.

1345
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:09,919
Speaker 2: So I say that really just to sort of encourage

1346
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 2: everybody to please go watch if you have it.

1347
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't get any money if you watch, So

1348
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 4: we're not definitely not pushing anywhere.

1349
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 3: Everything like that. There's no.

1350
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 2: Getting Kenny's for everyone, so generally ethically, and by the way,

1351
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 2: smarty Pants over here, she's always like I don't know

1352
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 2: that or whatever. Smarty Pants is like looking in the

1353
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 2: background or the picture and identifying the one weird vacuum

1354
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 2: that's doing this, this and this, Like she is. She

1355
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 2: is the real deal, and that can never be brought

1356
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:41,680
Speaker 2: into question. And you watch that doc and.

1357
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 3: You're reminded that you're guesting your stud.

1358
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,759
Speaker 4: He was, you know, Luca was making videos of himself

1359
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 4: killing cats, and he was hiding his identity, and we

1360
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 4: were trying to find out who he was. And where

1361
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 4: do you start? You start with the objects in the room, right,

1362
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 4: what identifiable objects that we can we see in this video.

1363
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,080
Speaker 4: By the way, this was twenty ten. There was no

1364
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 4: reverse Google image search. There was right, you know, there

1365
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:04,439
Speaker 4: was none of this.

1366
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 3: This DNA, there was the dark stuff.

1367
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not doing visual identifications like we get to

1368
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 2: do now, right.

1369
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,680
Speaker 4: We're looking at like plug like walls, you know, outlets,

1370
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,600
Speaker 4: We're looking at bedsizes, we're looking at We're looking for

1371
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 4: a phone book in the room. We're looking for things

1372
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:24,799
Speaker 4: like that. So that's where it kind of starts.

1373
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 5: Well, I'm looking for answers and I'm looking for stuff

1374
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:30,719
Speaker 5: that did not end up in the dock. I want

1375
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 5: the box to behind the scene.

1376
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 8: What's up.

1377
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 2: And listen, we're in our last stretch. How is that possible?

1378
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,799
Speaker 2: Somehow I feel like we never really even scratch the surface.

1379
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 3: I need to do it. I feel like we start

1380
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 3: and then it's like.

1381
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:58,759
Speaker 2: Four hours, yes, forty eight hours straight right through crime tonight.

1382
01:17:58,880 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 3: That is the goal.

1383
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 2: By the way, Boddy, you're doing such a great job

1384
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,679
Speaker 2: setting up you right, which is a hard thing to do.

1385
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 2: First of all, not only did Body play such an

1386
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 2: important role in such a prolific case, that's where we

1387
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,559
Speaker 2: met her. She was on a documentary on Netflix. It

1388
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 2: was Emmy Award winning I'm my Dad. I watched it

1389
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 2: real time. It changed my world. The benefit to not

1390
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 2: only have you in my daily life, but to really

1391
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 2: consider you a friend, colleague, all the things we get

1392
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 2: to play every.

1393
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,879
Speaker 3: Night, and by the way, we met on TV.

1394
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 2: So it just shows the world is small and big

1395
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 2: all at the same time. So again, many years, how

1396
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 2: much could happen, But getting to do a deep dive

1397
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 2: with you was major?

1398
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 3: Where were we?

1399
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:44,559
Speaker 12: So?

1400
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 3: I guess, I guess talk the phones are a buzzy, nervous,

1401
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:51,480
Speaker 3: I'm nervous. What is it?

1402
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 8: Hi? Guys?

1403
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 14: I love your show and I love all that you

1404
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:58,719
Speaker 14: three do. I have a specific question for Body pertaining

1405
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 14: to Don't f with Cats. If you could go back

1406
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 14: Body and speak to your younger self before you ever

1407
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 14: clicked on the video link of that first video, would

1408
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 14: you do things differently?

1409
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 3: What would you tell yourself? And would you have clicked

1410
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 3: on the video at all?

1411
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 7: Thank you for getting good.

1412
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:17,840
Speaker 3: That's a great question, you know my question?

1413
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 4: Oh what what would I do different when I clicked, Yes,

1414
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 4: I would click the video. This experience changed my life,

1415
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 4: sometimes bad and sometimes good. Of course I would have

1416
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 4: done anything to save Julin. That would be number one.

1417
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 4: So if I would have do something differently, it would

1418
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 4: be to scream louder about this and to you know,

1419
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 4: the cops weren't taking our information very seriously. And you know, again,

1420
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 4: this was twenty ten, and they were kind of like

1421
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 4: we had done a lot of things like trap his

1422
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 4: IP address and stuff like that, and they were like

1423
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,759
Speaker 4: IP address, They didn't even know what we were talking about,

1424
01:19:57,800 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like they have no idea.

1425
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:04,600
Speaker 4: And I think I would have maybe screamed louder to

1426
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 4: save Jenlin.

1427
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 3: Does that make sense.

1428
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 4: I would have done that, by the way, that's the

1429
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 4: spirit of this whole show. Yeah, scream louder. I would

1430
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:14,679
Speaker 4: scream louder. And would I have clicked on it again? Yes,

1431
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 4: because you know it did change my life in good

1432
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 4: and bad and the ways that are bad.

1433
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 3: It's made me more withdrawn. I don't really trust people

1434
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 3: a lot.

1435
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 4: I spend probably ninety eight percent of my time alone.

1436
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:31,799
Speaker 3: People's people.

1437
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,719
Speaker 4: When the documentary came out, Yeah, I got like super

1438
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 4: famous for a brief minute, right, and everybody wanted to

1439
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,839
Speaker 4: be my friend. And then at the same time everybody

1440
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 4: left me too because my mother had gotten very sick

1441
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 4: and it was a massive burden, and so I just

1442
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 4: didn't really trust anybody. And it's kind of like remained,

1443
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like it's kind of held over,

1444
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 4: and I don't like that about myself, but it has

1445
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 4: given me so many opportunities like this, like the show.

1446
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,080
Speaker 4: I never would have gotten this opportunity had it not

1447
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 4: been for don't have with cats right, never have gotten

1448
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 4: this opportunity.

1449
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 2: We wouldn't have met each other, right, crime con and

1450
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 2: we would not have met each other.

1451
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 3: And by the way, how proud is your mom of you?

1452
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,759
Speaker 3: So proud? I hope your mom so from the heavens above.

1453
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 5: When body, you know, I see you getting emotional, which

1454
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,600
Speaker 5: I mean what you described would make anyone very emotional.

1455
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 5: I think also it was you know too, as you said,

1456
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 5: you know, lose your close friends and then be left

1457
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 5: with sort of sycophants for lack of bettering. Yeah yeah,

1458
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 5: And then but it was also COVID when all of

1459
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 5: this everyone isolated anyway, and then everything you just said

1460
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 5: on top of that must have been really a heavy load.

1461
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 4: It was, and like we would my friend Jody and

1462
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 4: I we would go to like hockey games. Let's you know,

1463
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 4: I'm a big hockey fan, and like people would like

1464
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 4: come up. I would be surrounded by people. They were

1465
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 4: like trying to touch my hair and things. It was

1466
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 4: so weird, and so I had this weird juxtaposition. Anyway, Yes,

1467
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 4: I clicked on it again, but I would scream outer.

1468
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 4: I would do have I would have done anything to

1469
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 4: save Jenlin anything. Thank you for to talk.

1470
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 5: Back taha you look itch And to ask a question.

1471
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 15: To well, it's a quick one, but well, first of all,

1472
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 15: I have to say I'm in agreement with agreement with

1473
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 15: Stephanie and Courtney about the documentary is phenomenal. Everything about it.

1474
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:28,760
Speaker 15: It's just the way it's laid out, and you're so genuine.

1475
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 15: So it just drew me in and I fell in

1476
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 15: love with it and fell in love with you before.

1477
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,719
Speaker 13: Actually meeting you and starting with the pleasure of working

1478
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 13: with you. I know, right, I love you.

1479
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:43,640
Speaker 15: But I should lead with it's a little bit of

1480
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 15: a spoiler for people who haven't seen it, so you know,

1481
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 15: get ready, but it's not yours.

1482
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 13: It's not a major spoiler.

1483
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 15: But when I was watching the documentary and there was

1484
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 15: a scene where you saw some of the video footage

1485
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 15: that he was he had posts it online. At one

1486
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 15: point I thought I was like an internet sleuth because

1487
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 15: I thought, do I see a second set of hands?

1488
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 7: There?

1489
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 3: Second set of hands? Yeah?

1490
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 13: And I saw a second set.

1491
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 15: Of hands, And then I thought it was brilliant, and

1492
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 15: I was bragging about it to another friend.

1493
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 13: I caught something now and I was caught, and they

1494
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 13: all said, we all saw that, So calm down. But

1495
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 13: the show never touches on that.

1496
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 3: It never does it kind of it kind of leaves

1497
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:21,920
Speaker 3: you hanging, doesn't.

1498
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 13: It tell me about So why you think they left

1499
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 13: it out?

1500
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,759
Speaker 4: That was a nine minute video that was filmed weeks

1501
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 4: after the Python video that you're talking about. It was

1502
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 4: a separate video that the documentary doesn't do a good

1503
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 4: job of explaining that. I think it's pretty intentional. But

1504
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 4: it was filmed weeks and weeks later, and it was

1505
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:44,680
Speaker 4: a neighbor. It was totally innocent. The neighbor actually was

1506
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 4: at the trial and spoke about it, and it was

1507
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 4: completely innocent.

1508
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:50,160
Speaker 3: It had nothing to do with anything.

1509
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 2: It just for anyone who hasn't watched TAHA to your point,

1510
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 2: Oh hot, that was like a brilliant question for us,

1511
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:04,759
Speaker 2: number one question, a question that we've all been like harboring.

1512
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 2: But also just so you know, Body is an avid

1513
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:12,640
Speaker 2: animal enthusiast. It's so by the way, all of us

1514
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:17,040
Speaker 2: are so welcome. We all love an animal. And you know,

1515
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 2: this is a crime that started happening online, and Body,

1516
01:24:21,479 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 2: as an animal enthusiast, was smart enough and in tune

1517
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 2: enough to know that someone who commits crimes like this,

1518
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 2: murdering cats online for like public display.

1519
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,559
Speaker 3: Is likely going to escalate to human kills.

1520
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 2: That is and by the way, that is a predetermined thing,

1521
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 2: like they will say amongst serial killers specifically, one of

1522
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 2: the you know air quotes red flags of which there

1523
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,719
Speaker 2: are many, but one that's fairly universal has been spoken

1524
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 2: about a lot is you know, abuse to animals, killing animals,

1525
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 2: let alone kittens, little kitty cat that are so cute

1526
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 2: and innocent, and you know it's really the disturbing stuff.

1527
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:09,440
Speaker 2: So this activates Body, right, and John, I don't like bullies.

1528
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:10,600
Speaker 3: I don't like you.

1529
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:14,600
Speaker 4: I don't like bullies, I don't like people who hurt animals,

1530
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 4: elderly people or children, those are my you know what

1531
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 4: I mean, Like no, no, no, in no particular order,

1532
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:22,760
Speaker 4: by the way I mean, like you know, I'm not

1533
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:24,280
Speaker 4: saying animals are above children.

1534
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 13: Don't.

1535
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:25,840
Speaker 3: Please, don't take that the wrong way.

1536
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 4: But yeah, So do you guys want to hear some

1537
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:30,520
Speaker 4: things that maybe didn't?

1538
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 3: Okay?

1539
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 8: I want to.

1540
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 13: I'm dying to please please.

1541
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 3: Okay.

1542
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 4: So I don't know how familiar are Hopefully you're not

1543
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:40,839
Speaker 4: very familiar. Hopefully you didn't watch it. But the video,

1544
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 4: so Luca McNatt have filmed all of his crimes, well

1545
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 4: the ones that we know about, right, and you know,

1546
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 4: he well he would start out with like the kittens

1547
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 4: on the bed, okay, and he would love on them.

1548
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 4: He would pet them, and he would you know, when

1549
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:00,600
Speaker 4: I first saw the video, I thought, oh, this is

1550
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 4: a cute cat video, right, because he's like petting them

1551
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:06,640
Speaker 4: and loving on them. Well, he does the same thing

1552
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 4: with jun Lin. Okay. He kind of strokes his head

1553
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:13,519
Speaker 4: and he's then he gets and he straddles him and

1554
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:16,439
Speaker 4: he's like kind of petting him, okay, And then of

1555
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:20,760
Speaker 4: course he reaches down and he grabs a circular saw

1556
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:26,919
Speaker 4: and Okay, however, the man in the bed is not Schumlin.

1557
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:31,679
Speaker 4: What what the man in the bed is not Chumlin.

1558
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 4: There's a it's another man. And what we believe is

1559
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 4: that it was his practice run to see if those

1560
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 4: the drugs worked, to see what.

1561
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:46,639
Speaker 13: Did talk to that other?

1562
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 4: Yes, the police did, the police did, but that it

1563
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:53,559
Speaker 4: didn't make the documentary. And we had discovered this because we,

1564
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:56,719
Speaker 4: of course analyzed the murder video. We had it days

1565
01:26:56,800 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 4: before the police did.

1566
01:26:57,800 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 3: Right.

1567
01:26:58,800 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1568
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 3: Oh, and by the way, this is a thing. He

1569
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 3: didn't kill dress man. He just drugged him to see

1570
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:06,800
Speaker 3: if you know what he could get away with.

1571
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:10,840
Speaker 5: Man enough, yo, I mean that's I mean, yes, thank

1572
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:11,799
Speaker 5: god he stopped.

1573
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,679
Speaker 8: But that in and of itself is a crime. Holy cow. Okay,

1574
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:15,439
Speaker 8: what else do you got?

1575
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 12: Now?

1576
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 4: I'm Another question I get asked a lot is how

1577
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 4: did he know where I work?

1578
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 3: How did how?

1579
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:26,400
Speaker 4: Because in the documentary we find out that Luca has

1580
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:28,599
Speaker 4: found out who I am and starts kind of threatening

1581
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 4: and targeting me, and he sends a video of a place,

1582
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 4: a casino that I used to work at. And at

1583
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 4: this point I had to go, you know, and tell

1584
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,840
Speaker 4: my boss about it because I was worried that he

1585
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:41,840
Speaker 4: was going to show up at where I work. Okay, Well,

1586
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 4: prior to being body Moven, I was Deanna Thompson and

1587
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 4: I was on my regular Facebook account. I never ever

1588
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 4: tried to hide who I was to Luca ever.

1589
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:52,640
Speaker 8: I was.

1590
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 4: Also, this is one thing they didn't tell you about

1591
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 4: is we were so kind to him because we knew

1592
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:01,759
Speaker 4: something was wrong right and he.

1593
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:02,240
Speaker 3: Was he wasn't.

1594
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 4: He was in communication with us all the time. He

1595
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:07,960
Speaker 4: sent us his prescription bottle pills like pictures, He communicated

1596
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 4: with us if he was lonely Christmas. I mean, we

1597
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:14,680
Speaker 4: were constantly kind to him, very kind to him, just

1598
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 4: trying to be like, listen, you need help. We know

1599
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 4: you're lonely, we know you're going through it, you know.

1600
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 4: But so that's something that they left out too, that

1601
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:23,840
Speaker 4: we were kind to him. We were trying just to

1602
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 4: All we wanted was for the police to knock on

1603
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 4: his door and make sure he was okay, like and

1604
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 4: to get him to stop killing cats, like you know

1605
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 4: what I mean, Like, get him to stop because this history,

1606
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 4: he was prolific. He had thousands and thousands and thousands

1607
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:42,679
Speaker 4: of accounts and all of them were troll accounts doing

1608
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 4: something to piss people off. He started with the Family Guy.

1609
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:49,200
Speaker 4: I don't know if you guys know the show Family Guy.

1610
01:28:51,160 --> 01:28:52,719
Speaker 4: He was trying to get a rise out of people

1611
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 4: and trying to get Family Guy banned. And you know,

1612
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:59,439
Speaker 4: like he had thousands of accounts to do this. He

1613
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 4: spent all day every day. If I had a bot,

1614
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,439
Speaker 4: like a bot farm, I still wouldn't be able to

1615
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 4: create the amount accounts that this guy had thousands of

1616
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 4: them to hype himself up. You know, Luca Mgnada is

1617
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 4: the Prince of Canada. He put himself in a relationship

1618
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 4: with Carla Boca right like he was wanted to be.

1619
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 3: He wanted to be.

1620
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 4: He wanted to be infamous, He wanted to be infased.

1621
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 4: He often said he was a killer before he even

1622
01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:33,920
Speaker 4: was one. He wanted to be infamous. Another thing that

1623
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 4: that they left out was Luca had an mo o.

1624
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:42,600
Speaker 4: He would always pre hype his projects with both the

1625
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:45,719
Speaker 4: kitten video, with all the series of the Kitten videos,

1626
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 4: we after it happened, we would find him pre uh

1627
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 4: what is it called promoting pre promoting it.

1628
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 3: So when when.

1629
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 4: Jun Lyin was murdered, we were like, there's got to

1630
01:29:57,120 --> 01:29:59,760
Speaker 4: be something out there, and of course there was. So

1631
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 4: in January of twenty eleven, I'm sorry. Prior to May

1632
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 4: of twenty twelve, he had posted on blog spot of

1633
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 4: a photo of himself in a purple hoodie with an

1634
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 4: ice pick with the Casablanca photo behind him, and the

1635
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:20,760
Speaker 4: blog spot was called the One Lunatic One ice Pick,

1636
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 4: and he was like, has anybody seen this video? Now,

1637
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 4: this was prior to him murdering John Lin. He was

1638
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 4: pre promoting it, and then he was creating messages on

1639
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 4: message messaging boards going, there's this video floating around going

1640
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:35,560
Speaker 4: called what one Lunatic one ice pic? Because anybody's seen it?

1641
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:39,639
Speaker 4: I'm dying to find it. Two months later he created

1642
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:42,479
Speaker 4: the actual video. And he did this with every single

1643
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:44,799
Speaker 4: cat video and Jounlin.

1644
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 2: So he was almost doing like a tease like a

1645
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 2: TDTS like before like coming up next yes, or right

1646
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,960
Speaker 2: next season on like we see on television. He was

1647
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 2: promoting what would be a kill.

1648
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:00,400
Speaker 3: Yep, And he did it every single time, and he

1649
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 3: had this like super like pop culture thing going yeah

1650
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:05,439
Speaker 3: as well. Right, he was.

1651
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:09,440
Speaker 4: Obsessed with James Dean, he was obsessed with Madonna Hea,

1652
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 4: he was obsessed with Sharon Stone.

1653
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 3: He was obsessed with basic instinct.

1654
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 7: And b.

1655
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 4: That mom was I don't want to listen. I have

1656
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 4: no animosity. Is she is, She's a mother. She's maybe

1657
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:26,640
Speaker 4: in a little bit of a denial, you know what

1658
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 4: I mean. They don't have the best relationship they did.

1659
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 4: You know, his grandmother raised him, not her. She's troubled herself,

1660
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 4: and I have no animosity. She can talk as much

1661
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 4: crap about me as she wants, and I'm not going

1662
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:39,600
Speaker 4: to be.

1663
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:40,040
Speaker 13: Mad at her.

1664
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 3: You know, crap about you she did? Yeah, oh I

1665
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:45,720
Speaker 3: know that. I just thought she was.

1666
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 2: Compelling as an image of voice perspective in shock.

1667
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 3: And when you watch it you'll know what I mean.

1668
01:31:56,200 --> 01:31:57,240
Speaker 3: I think we have a talk back.

1669
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:02,040
Speaker 12: Yep, Hey, ladies. Sismis just for body body. I watched

1670
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 12: the documentary Don't f with Cats and thought you.

1671
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:06,320
Speaker 13: Did an amazing job.

1672
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 3: You're to take.

1673
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:12,439
Speaker 12: The skills are unbelievable, and that you tracked this guy

1674
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:18,639
Speaker 12: down halfway across the world by just analyzing small videos

1675
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:19,519
Speaker 12: that he's sent in.

1676
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 13: You did a wonderful job.

1677
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 3: And I just wanted to let you know that, Oh,

1678
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 3: thank you so much.

1679
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:28,479
Speaker 2: Is the point of this body And I just think

1680
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:32,920
Speaker 2: that speaks to everyone listening right now, everyone listening. It's

1681
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 2: the small stuff. It's being ethical and curious and kind

1682
01:32:37,320 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 2: and smart. You are one of a kind. Body move in.

1683
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 2: Thank you truly like no other. Again, if you haven't

1684
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 2: watched before, don't. With Cats on Netflix, not only are

1685
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 2: you the star, but.

1686
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:51,600
Speaker 3: You are your force. Yeah, you are a detective.

1687
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 4: Can we talk about what's coming up next? Yes, listen,

1688
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:59,519
Speaker 4: everybody needs to watch Unknown Number the High School Catfish

1689
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 4: on net Flix. Your head is going to explode. That's

1690
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 4: going to be our next true crime. And Chill, I

1691
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:05,680
Speaker 4: am dying to talk about it, dying.

1692
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:08,559
Speaker 2: Next true crime and Chill, you heard it here. This

1693
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 2: is true crime tonight. We're talking true crime.

1694
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 3: All the time. We will speak to you tomorrow. Good night,

1695
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 3: good night,