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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the white Tail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

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Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, we are kicking off a new series in

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Speaker 2: which we are exploring the habits, mindsets, methods and routines

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Speaker 2: of the best deer hunters in the world. And to

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Speaker 2: kick things off, we've got John Eberhart. All right, welcome

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Speaker 2: back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 2: by First Light and their Camel for Conservation Initiative. And

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Speaker 2: I'm back. I don't know what kind of crazy things

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Speaker 2: Tony said that I was up to over the last

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Speaker 2: few weeks while he was manning the ship, but none

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Speaker 2: of it was true. I have been out west. He

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Speaker 2: probably said I was doing a little fishing, and that's true,

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Speaker 2: doing a little camping, that's all true, but also chomping

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Speaker 2: at the bit to get back into some white tail things.

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Speaker 2: Got some good bucks showing up on camera already. I'm

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Speaker 2: excited to talk about those things. But today the main story,

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Speaker 2: the big picture here is that we're kicking off a

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Speaker 2: new series, and this is a series that I'm excited

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Speaker 2: about because it is different. It's different than what we've

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Speaker 2: done in the past. It's different than I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: pretty much what anybody else is trying to do with

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Speaker 2: their podcast, because I'm not asking our guests over this

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Speaker 2: next month really about, you know, their hunting tactics. I'm

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Speaker 2: not looking to understand their perspectives on patterning deer or

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Speaker 2: deer behavior, or understanding dear habitat or different spots to

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Speaker 2: set up your tree stands, or how to shoot your bone,

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Speaker 2: none of that stuff. What I'm interested in is is

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Speaker 2: one or two levels deeper than that. What I want

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Speaker 2: to achieve with this series is to get a look

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Speaker 2: under the trunk, behind the curtains, behind the scenes, inside

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Speaker 2: the minds of the best of the best deer hunters.

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Speaker 2: How do they think about deer hunting problems and struggles

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Speaker 2: and challenges. How do they make their decisions? What are

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Speaker 2: the routines and the habits and the little things and

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Speaker 2: their mindsets that lead to their success? Like these are

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Speaker 2: the building blocks of success. That's what I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: get at here. So I put together a series of

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Speaker 2: twenty questions that I think will help us get a

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Speaker 2: glimpse of that behind the scenes machinations in these guys' minds.

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Speaker 2: These are questions, like I mentioned, we're going to try

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Speaker 2: to help understand how they set their goals, how they

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Speaker 2: define success, how they think about failure, how they get

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Speaker 2: better at things, who they look up to, who they

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Speaker 2: observe and see as successful, and what do they find

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Speaker 2: success to look like in those people. All of these

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Speaker 2: things I think will help us have a better underlying

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Speaker 2: understanding of what the tools of what the mental models

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Speaker 2: necessary are necessary to have success as a deer hunter.

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Speaker 2: So this is different, different level of thinking, different several

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Speaker 2: layers beneath the surface that I think will give us

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Speaker 2: all a better idea of how we can become better

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Speaker 2: deer hunters ourselves. And my first guest, the guest to

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Speaker 2: kick this series off this week is John Eberhart. If

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Speaker 2: you've listened this podcast, you likely know him. He's the

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Speaker 2: author of many books. He is a long standing outdoor

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Speaker 2: writer and one of the most successful DIY white tail

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Speaker 2: ball hunters in the country. He comes from Michigan. I've

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Speaker 2: learned a lot from him personally. I know many of

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Speaker 2: you have too, and so he was the guy who

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Speaker 2: I thought would be a great person to kick this

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Speaker 2: whole thing off. And what you're going to see is

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Speaker 2: that this series of twenty questions will be the same

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Speaker 2: series of twenty questions I ask to every single one

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Speaker 2: of the guests we have in the upcoming week. So

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Speaker 2: we're going to get to hear all of these different,

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Speaker 2: very very good deer hunters answer the very same questions,

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Speaker 2: and we'll see what's you know, what they have in common.

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Speaker 2: We'll see how they approach these things differently. And I

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Speaker 2: think it's going to be very insightful and interesting to

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Speaker 2: be able to compare and contrast all these different folks

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Speaker 2: who all have tremendous success but maybe approach it in

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Speaker 2: different ways. Or maybe what we're going to find is

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Speaker 2: that while their tactics are different, maybe their mindsets and

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Speaker 2: their habits and routines and philosophies, maybe those are more

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Speaker 2: consistent than we realize. It's going to be interesting to

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Speaker 2: find out. I'm very excited about it. And we're going

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Speaker 2: to kick off the conversation with John here very quickly,

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Speaker 2: but real fast. We want to give you a heads

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Speaker 2: up on something that is going to be coming up

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Speaker 2: in a matter of days if you're listening to this

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Speaker 2: in early July. Next week, we have a new educational

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Speaker 2: white tail video series launching that Tony Peterson and I

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Speaker 2: are hosting called Whitetail Edu. And these are a series

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Speaker 2: of kind of foundational, relatively beginner whitetail how to pieces.

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Speaker 2: This is the kind of thing that if you've been

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Speaker 2: hunting a long time, these will be good refreshers. If

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Speaker 2: you are relatively new, or if you have a new

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Speaker 2: friend or a new family member, someone who's getting into

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Speaker 2: this stuff but hasn't been doing it for twenty five years,

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Speaker 2: these will be great videos to send to them to

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Speaker 2: help level them up. Because what we found is that

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who listen to this podcast

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Speaker 2: and we end up speaking over them. We end up

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Speaker 2: talking about details, little nuanced things that they just don't

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Speaker 2: quite understand yet, and then they miss out on a

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Speaker 2: lot of the really good stuff we cover here in

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Speaker 2: the podcast. What we want to do is establish a

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Speaker 2: resource that will get you fully up to speed on

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Speaker 2: the very most important core foundational elements of deer hunting,

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Speaker 2: things like understanding where, why, and when deer feed, what

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Speaker 2: they feed on how to determine that things like really

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Speaker 2: diving deep into understanding tracks, not just the surface level,

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Speaker 2: but what can you read into those tracks and how

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Speaker 2: can that apply to future deer hunting efforts. Same thing

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Speaker 2: with scrapes and rubs and understanding maps and how deer

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Speaker 2: use habitat all, that kind of stuff. We're going to

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Speaker 2: try to establish a really good baseline for all of

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Speaker 2: those topics for folks. So the place that you can

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Speaker 2: go to see these videos when they come out is

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Speaker 2: a new channel for met Eator. It's called meat Eater Clips.

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Speaker 2: That's what you need to do right now is hit

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Speaker 2: pause on this podcast, go to YouTube and search for

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Speaker 2: meat Eater Clips that clips, subscribe to that channel. Then

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Speaker 2: when the new videos drop, you will be the first

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Speaker 2: to know it and you'll see them right there. You

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Speaker 2: can give them a watch or pass them along to

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Speaker 2: your friends who are still getting into this and still

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Speaker 2: learning whatever it is. We'd love it if you check

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Speaker 2: them out, share them around. Hopefully this can help a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks and better build people to be able

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Speaker 2: to listen to these in depth, know more advanced conversations

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Speaker 2: and get the absolute most out of it. So again,

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Speaker 2: that's white Tail. First one comes out, I believe July tenth,

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Speaker 2: and then it should be I think every week from

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Speaker 2: there on for a while. And again that's on the

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Speaker 2: Meat Eater Clips channel. So that is my one heads

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Speaker 2: up for the day. Without further ado, let's kick off

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Speaker 2: the mindsets of the Whitetail Masters series today with John Eberhart.

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Speaker 2: All right here with me on the line again is

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Speaker 2: mister John Eberhart. Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: John. Thank you, Mark. I appreciate you offering this gig

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Speaker 3: before me so that it was great to do a

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Speaker 3: podcast with you. You always ask me questions that usually

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Speaker 3: other people don't ask, which is nice.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I do try, and I think we're going

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Speaker 2: to do that again today. But you brought up something

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Speaker 2: just before we started recording which is really interesting, which

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Speaker 2: was I've made you a guinea pig several times now,

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Speaker 2: I guess because when I started the what would You Do? Series,

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Speaker 2: and that was like four years ago, you were the

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Speaker 2: first one for that, and I had forgotten that you

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Speaker 2: were first, and now I'm making you go first on

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Speaker 2: this too. So the pressures on though, because it went

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Speaker 2: so well with the What would You Do? Series that

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Speaker 2: We've continued it for years, so now John, we need

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Speaker 2: we need to make that happen again with this one.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the guy was telling you before we started.

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Speaker 2: What I'm hoping to get at with this series and

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Speaker 2: with our chat here today John, is to kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, get a look underneath the hood. It's like

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Speaker 2: popping the hood on a muscle car and seeing what's

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Speaker 2: going on behind the scenes, the habits, the routines, the mindset,

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Speaker 2: the philosophy, those kinds of things like what's going on

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Speaker 2: in here as you were out there deer hunting making

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Speaker 2: decisions or preparing in the off season. So we're probably

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Speaker 2: not going to talk about, you know, what's better a

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Speaker 2: rubb or a scrape or a how big of a

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Speaker 2: track you're looking for? Not that kind of stuff. It's

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a different kind of angle we're

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Speaker 2: going to take today exactly. So, So, John, I guess

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Speaker 2: the first thing I want to look at with you

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Speaker 2: is a simple thing. How do you define deer hunting success?

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Speaker 3: Well, that would totally depend on how many years experience

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Speaker 3: you have, what type of property you're hunting, and what

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Speaker 3: your goals are. You know, there's guys that hunt public

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Speaker 3: land that are just out there to enjoy nature and

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Speaker 3: maybe kill a door or subordinate buck for the freezer,

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Speaker 3: and that may be success to them personally for me

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Speaker 3: for success, I my goal for success is to kill

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Speaker 3: mature bucks in pressured areas. I don't look up to

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Speaker 3: anybody like TV guys. I shouldn't say any most TV

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Speaker 3: guys I do not look up to as as serious

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Speaker 3: deer hunters because they're hunting in ultra managed properties almost

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Speaker 3: as do like settings, fantasy land stuff, and it doesn't

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Speaker 3: take much skill set to do that. So so to

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Speaker 3: me killing three and a half year old in older

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Speaker 3: bucks in heavily pressured areas against tons of competition, and

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Speaker 3: probably at least half of my competition on the public

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Speaker 3: lands and free permission properties that I'm hunting, which is

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Speaker 3: exclusively all I hunt, you know, at least half of

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Speaker 3: the people are targeting just deer, So that's a different

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Speaker 3: type of pressure. Anytime you're hunting ultra managed property where

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Speaker 3: nobody's shooting at anything until it's four and a half

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Speaker 3: years old, you know, you can have several hunters on

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Speaker 3: the property, but that's not hunting pressure, because you know,

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Speaker 3: once the deer hits to kill kill engagement criteria. You know,

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Speaker 3: they move a lot during daylight hours, they move out

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Speaker 3: into short crowd fields. They'll walk into your little shell

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Speaker 3: corn in the weeds in front of your twenty feet

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Speaker 3: in front of your box blind that sticks out like

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Speaker 3: a sore thumb, and you shoot them. So you know,

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Speaker 3: to me, that's that's not deer hunting, or at least

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Speaker 3: that's not a skilled deer hunter. So a mock. Personally,

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Speaker 3: on my end, it's being able to hunt against heavy

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Speaker 3: competition and target three and a half year old and

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Speaker 3: older bucks because in a lot of areas I hunt

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Speaker 3: four and a half year old bucks just do not exist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So on the flip side, then how would you

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Speaker 2: define deer hunting failure?

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Speaker 3: A failure to me would be a buck comes in

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Speaker 3: and I have an opportunity, but I think I'm going

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Speaker 3: to get a closer shot, so I don't take the

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Speaker 3: first good opportunity, and then I don't get the opportunity

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Speaker 3: I think I'm going to get because something else happened.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he's with the hot dough and she turns and leaves,

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Speaker 3: or maybe he comes in and then all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden he turns ninety degrees and goes a different direction

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Speaker 3: where he did offer me a shot and I passed

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Speaker 3: on a thirty yard shot because I think I'm going

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Speaker 3: to get a fifteen yard shot and I didn't take it.

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Speaker 3: That'd be about the only time I look at failure

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Speaker 3: because being in the woods. To me, being in nature,

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Speaker 3: there can't be failure in deer hunting. You know, I've

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Speaker 3: went three years in a row in Michigan without seeing

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Speaker 3: a buck that I would shoot, or without having a

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Speaker 3: buck on camera that I would personally shoot. Do I

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Speaker 3: consider those three seasons it's failures? Absolutely not. I was

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Speaker 3: out there, I had the best bucks in the area

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Speaker 3: walk by me that I did not shoot. So how

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Speaker 3: can you look at that as failure? You can. You

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Speaker 3: can only fail when you don't when you don't take

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Speaker 3: advantage of something that's there, or you don't get the opportunity.

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Speaker 3: It's something that you know is there. You don't get

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Speaker 3: that opportunity, then you may have failed in you know,

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Speaker 3: your location or your seasonal timing, your daily timing not

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Speaker 3: being there it's the right time of season or right

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Speaker 3: time of day you did your sequence is wrong. Maybe

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Speaker 3: used a tactic it didn't work, but Overall, I really

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Speaker 3: never look at deer hunting as a failure. I just

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Speaker 3: enjoy being out there in nature. Got I'm seventy three

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Speaker 3: years old, and I just have a passion for it.

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Speaker 3: So unless I unless I do what I said early

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Speaker 3: as far as missing an opportunity because I passed on

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Speaker 3: what I know, I could have taken the thirty yard

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Speaker 3: shime and killed it waiting for a fifteen yards hid

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Speaker 3: and then I don't end up getting that shot. And

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Speaker 3: that's happened to me several times. And those are things

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Speaker 3: I've never ever gotten.

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Speaker 2: This happened to So then maybe maybe this leads maybe

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Speaker 2: that'll be the answer to this next question. But I'm

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Speaker 2: curious if you think back, if you look back on

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Speaker 2: past either failures or just mistakes, can you think of

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Speaker 2: any particular failure or mistake that sets you up for

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Speaker 2: later hunting success, like a favorite failure that changed something

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Speaker 2: for you, that taught you a lesson or changed how

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Speaker 2: you proach things. Can you can you think of a

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Speaker 2: specific example like that that you could describe absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Nineteen seventy five, it was late October pre run, I

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Speaker 3: think it was October thirtieth, and I was hunting in

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Speaker 3: a draw. This is in Michigan. I was hunting in

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Speaker 3: a draw. There was there was cutover saplings up a

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Speaker 3: little hill to the west, and there was also cutover

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Speaker 3: saplings to the east. And I'm in a little kind

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Speaker 3: of a lane of weeds between these two cutovers, and

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Speaker 3: there's I'm in a white oak kind of where it

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Speaker 3: dumps out into into some open timber. And I had

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Speaker 3: a big bug, biggest buck at the time that I

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Speaker 3: ever had an opportunity to shoot. And he came down

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Speaker 3: to thirty five yards. He came down that little draw

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Speaker 3: in weeds, and he stopped. And it was a bluebird afternoon, sunny, sunny,

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Speaker 3: sunny afternoon, and I'd had twelve other doze and ponds,

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Speaker 3: and one other subordinate buck go by me within twelve

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Speaker 3: yards and feet actually on acorns under my tree, and

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Speaker 3: then moved on. And so he was coming through the

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Speaker 3: same route, so he was on their trail. And at

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Speaker 3: thirty five yards he stopped and he gave me a

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Speaker 3: broadside shot. And at the time I shot leagues a

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Speaker 3: lot back then, and at thirty five yards, I have

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Speaker 3: the thirty thirty five yards ten and I could have

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Speaker 3: shot that deer with no problem stand a dead broadside,

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Speaker 3: and I thought, well, you know he's on he's following

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Speaker 3: all these deer where they went into the timber. So

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Speaker 3: I just well, I'm gonna wait till he comes within

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Speaker 3: twelve yards fifteen yards, And all of a sudden, he

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Speaker 3: just took off and ran up the side of the

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Speaker 3: hill to the west. And when he started running up

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Speaker 3: the hill, in the saplings, you know, these saplings were

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Speaker 3: probably tempoly tall, there was a dough and I had

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Speaker 3: not seen that dough. But when he started running up

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Speaker 3: that hill, I saw that doe spook from him, and

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Speaker 3: so you know, obviously in the evenings the thermal drafts

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Speaker 3: from the hills are going down, so he winded her

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Speaker 3: and took off after her, and I didn't get an opportunity.

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Speaker 3: I never saw that buck again, and that probably is

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Speaker 3: why I mentioned what I said, what I think is

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Speaker 3: a failure that's happened to me two times. But I've

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Speaker 3: never ever forgotten that. And as you well know, you

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Speaker 3: you remember your mistakes far more than you remember your success.

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Speaker 2: They sting, They sting so much more. Yes, And I've

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Speaker 2: even thought, like the the low that I feel when

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Speaker 2: I've really messed something up is much lower from baseline

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Speaker 2: than the high I feel when I do succeed. And

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Speaker 2: so by that I mean like if I were to

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Speaker 2: hit and wounded deer and not find it, that is

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Speaker 2: way more significant of like an impact on me than

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Speaker 2: if I smoke a deer and find it thirty minutes later,

301
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Speaker 2: you know. So that leads me though, to a follow

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Speaker 2: up to your question. It seems like the takeaway the

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00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,920
Speaker 2: lesson from that experience was, as you described it in

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Speaker 2: a minute ago, take advantage of that first opportunity because

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Speaker 2: they can be fleeting, which is.

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Speaker 3: Very true during any semblance to the rug bases. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: when anything happened.

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Speaker 2: But have you ever had the opposite happen where you

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Speaker 2: wished that you had waited to let a situation play

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Speaker 2: out because you did take the first opportunity and maybe

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Speaker 2: rushed it or it didn't end up being optimal, and

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Speaker 2: then that led to, you know, something bad happening, and

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Speaker 2: then you thought, oh, geez, if I had just been

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Speaker 2: more patient, he would have came into twenty five or

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Speaker 2: twenty Has that ever happened to.

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Speaker 3: I've made miss I've made mistakes where I remember I

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Speaker 3: had a bought ap and this was in Kansas. I

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Speaker 3: had about one hundred and eighty inch buck and some

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Speaker 3: really tall was actually this help. You know out in

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Speaker 3: Kansas should get a lot of hot growing wild and

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Speaker 3: it was in really tall hemp, and he was coming

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Speaker 3: right towards me, and there was a dough in front

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Speaker 3: of him that I did not see because the hemp

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Speaker 3: was so tall. All I could see from him was

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Speaker 3: his head and his rack sticking up above them. And

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Speaker 3: he was following her, so she was obviously on her

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Speaker 3: own way that was going to come right by me

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Speaker 3: as well. So I was watching him, and I was

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Speaker 3: moving around in my saddle to get a shot opportunity

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Speaker 3: when he came, because I knew exactly what route they

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Speaker 3: were on. He was on, and when I made that move,

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Speaker 3: the dough, the doe had already stopped. She was standing there.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see her, and she picked me. When I

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Speaker 3: made a move. He wasn't looking, he was looking at

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Speaker 3: the dough. She spooked and he went with me. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if that answered your question, but.

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Speaker 2: Certainly a scenario we don't want to have happened.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and another another time, Yeah, that was that would

339
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Speaker 3: have been the second biggest buck I've ever shot at

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Speaker 3: the other eight hundred and eighty andj right killed. And

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Speaker 3: another time in Michigan, this was probably my worst my

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Speaker 3: worst case scenario ever. Nineteen ninety seven, late October pre run.

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Speaker 3: I was hunting a pinch point between two betting areas

344
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Speaker 3: and I was hunting for a specific buck. I knew

345
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Speaker 3: he was there, and he was probably of one fifty ish,

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Speaker 3: which is monster for Michigan. And at about that straight

347
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Speaker 3: up noon, here he's coming out of one betting area.

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Speaker 3: You know, he was gonna sent check for those in

349
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Speaker 3: one others betting area and take the pinch point of

350
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Speaker 3: security cover to the next bedding area. And he came

351
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Speaker 3: through ten yards again. It was straight up twelve o'clock

352
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Speaker 3: and when it was on all day said probably twelve yards,

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Speaker 3: I mean a perfect it was a chip shot. He

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Speaker 3: was on my wall mentally, this year is dead. He

355
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 3: threw my bow dead broadside twelve yards. Man stopped him.

356
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Speaker 3: I shot right over his back. I didn't think there

357
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Speaker 3: was any way in God's green earth I could miss

358
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Speaker 3: a bear. And that's probably the last year I can

359
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Speaker 3: ever remember physically totally missing. And that that gave me

360
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 3: thought that don't ever take shots for granted, you know,

361
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Speaker 3: don't just draw back, and because he's so close, it's

362
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 3: like shooting in an elf, you know, you just you

363
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 3: pull your pin down. And as soon as my pin

364
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Speaker 3: got some someone so in the Bibles, you know, I

365
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Speaker 3: just let it go. And I must have jerked a

366
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Speaker 3: little and shot over his back. I just didn't take

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Speaker 3: my time and follow through with my form.

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Speaker 2: Easy to do in those moments, that's for sure. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So I want to I want to step away from

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Speaker 2: you for a quick second and ask you to think

371
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Speaker 2: of a different whitetail hunter that you know, who you

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Speaker 2: do look up to, someone you think is truly elite.

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Speaker 2: Can you think of someone you think is a truly

374
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Speaker 2: really really excellent deer hunter and describe to me what

375
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Speaker 2: it is that makes him or her so successful? So

376
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Speaker 2: who would that person be, if you're willing, if you

377
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Speaker 2: want to share the name, or if not, describe to

378
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Speaker 2: me what makes this person so special, what's their their

379
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Speaker 2: secret sauce, what's behind the curtain for them?

380
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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's only been one hunter I've ever looked up to,

381
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Speaker 3: one bow hunter. That's Miles Keller. I mean, he's past

382
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Speaker 3: his crime now. I don't even know if he's still bond.

383
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Speaker 3: But Miles Keller was killing big bucks back in the

384
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Speaker 3: eighties and early nineties before all this TV junk, in

385
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 3: my opinion, and he wasn't a writer, but he got interviewed.

386
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 3: There was quite a few articles where they interviewed Miles Keller.

387
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Speaker 3: He was extremely detail oriented, which I think I am

388
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Speaker 3: as well. He was very detail oriented. He targeted specific bucks,

389
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Speaker 3: you know, and he had a cool job. He drove

390
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Speaker 3: around in the countryside. I can't remember what his job was,

391
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: but he got to see deer, and back in the

392
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Speaker 3: eighties it was a lot easier to get hunting permission.

393
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Speaker 3: So when he would see a monster buck, he would

394
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 3: go and if he could get hunting permission, he would

395
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 3: target that deer. And typically that deer was in he

396
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 3: was in trouble when Miles Keller targeted him, because he

397
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 3: had a pretty high success rate. And Miles Keller always,

398
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 3: you know, he used to wear shower caps over his

399
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 3: hair because he knew, you know, a high percentage of

400
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 3: his order. This is before sunt lot was coming out

401
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 3: of his hair follicles, so he shaved clean and he

402
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: put a shower head band over his head so he

403
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: wouldn't have as much older he Even though I'm not

404
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 3: a believer in the sprays you know, the sodium bite

405
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: carbonate and water sprays. I think they have very minimal effect.

406
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 3: But he used that. He used anything that he thought

407
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 3: would give him an edge, and he was just an

408
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 3: extremely successful hunter on regular properties. Okay, So I guess

409
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 3: Miles Keller would be the only only person I've ever looked.

410
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: I've hunted with a lot of high profile ball hunters.

411
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 3: I've never been impressed by.

412
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: Him, so to say that, no, that's okay. So with

413
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 2: Miles you mentioned a few things there, but is there

414
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: is there any one thing that stood out from what

415
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 2: you read about him, or observed with him, or learned

416
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 2: about him that you think was was really his key

417
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 2: to that success.

418
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 3: Yes, he knew not to win shrewed into a deer's

419
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 3: area anymore than needed to be. So he hunted very smart.

420
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 3: He keyed on rut FaZe hunts. He knew that's when

421
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: they were more vulnerable. As far as moving during daylight hours,

422
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 3: he knew the seasonal and daily timing of locations. He

423
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: knew he was hunting in a food location like in

424
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: a white oak or a lost apple tree or whatever

425
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: the nut tree may be chestnuts. He knew it was

426
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 3: an evening location because so he wouldn't spook here with

427
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: his you know, feeding there with a morning entry. So

428
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,479
Speaker 3: he put a lot of things in place that really

429
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: if you read any of the media time no media

430
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 3: people were talking about that he had knowledge of deer

431
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: behavior beyond the normal ball hunter. And you know, I

432
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: feel like I try to follow in that stuff, you know,

433
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: seasonal timing, daily timing. Is this a morning location, is

434
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: this an evening location? Is this a mid day location?

435
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,959
Speaker 3: You know, like that those pinch points between the two

436
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 3: betting areas, that's a mid day location, both to two

437
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 3: big bucks. I've had opportunities at there. We're in the

438
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 3: middle of the day, so you know, knowing seasonal and

439
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: daily timing, and you know what locations are for what

440
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: time of season. You know, Miles knew that, and I

441
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: used to read his interviews. I don't read much media

442
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 3: and I rarely watch TV, so yeah, those were those

443
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: were the things that really stood out with Miles over

444
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 3: anybody else.

445
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's funny you mentioned that because, like you said,

446
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: you followed in those footsteps, right, and then, as I've

447
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 2: told you in the past. You know, your book Precision

448
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: Bow Hunting was really like the awakening for me to

449
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: that those timing issues with with timing of day, timing

450
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: of season, and shifting everything because of that, which made

451
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 2: a huge, huge difference in my hunting life, which which

452
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: is a perfect segue to the next thing.

453
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 4: I'm curious about.

454
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: What single, if there was a single change or choice

455
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: that you've made over the course of your deer hunting

456
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: journey that has made the most meaningful impact for you,

457
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: taking you from an average deer hunter or a good

458
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: deer hunter to a great wall I think what you

459
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: just described maybe was one of the biggest shifts for

460
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: me once I realized that I needed to really look

461
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: at the season not as just like, oh, this is

462
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: three months of deer hunting season, but this is a

463
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: one week window, and this is a seven day window,

464
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: and this is a two week window, and this kind

465
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 2: of thing will only work for this time of year.

466
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: These specific locations are only right for this time of year.

467
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 2: I didn't grasp that until I was twenty twenty one

468
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,239
Speaker 2: when I read your book, so that would probably be

469
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 2: my answer to this question. But what for you, what

470
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: change or what choice did you make that took you

471
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: from here to here.

472
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 3: I've had three choices in my deer hunting career that

473
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: have made of boom boom boom. First one was postseason scouting.

474
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: Post season scouting was never written about. I didn't know

475
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: anything about it, never heard anybody ever mentioned postseason scouting.

476
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: When I started doing it in the mid seventies, you know,

477
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: I was I was just doing pre season scouting and

478
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 3: location preparation like every other gowner. That's all it was

479
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: ever talked about in the media pre season. So you know,

480
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: one season, I was like, I filled my tags early

481
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to go

482
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 3: out here in December. You know, gun season's over and

483
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 3: there wasn't any snow on the ground, and I'm gonna,

484
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna scout early. And when I started

485
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 3: doing that, I was looking at the property because in

486
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: Michigan and in the heavily pressured areas that I hunt,

487
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: everything revolves around security cover. And when you go out

488
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 3: there and you preseason and scout, everything looks like it's

489
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: got adequate security cover per deer to move through because

490
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: everything's got folageiants. Everything looks dense, so it gives you

491
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 3: a false sense of what security cover is once the

492
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 3: foliage is down during the rut phases, and that's when

493
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: bucks start being vulnerable, moving more during daylight, you know,

494
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 3: in pursuit of dose. So during postseason scouting, I can

495
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 3: still see all the scrapes. I can tell the fresh

496
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: licking branches because you can see the white of the

497
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: meat of the tree. The runways are still there from

498
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: the rut phases, very visible. You can totally go in

499
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 3: and rape bedding areas as far as scouting them without

500
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: concern busting deer either, because they're going to be back

501
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: in there. You know, when you're scouting, you know whether

502
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: it be January, February, March, you know, even even into

503
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 3: April before greenup. You can just molest everything, prep your locations,

504
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: do all your scouting, mark your public land locations on ONYX,

505
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 3: and you know, have all that stuff set where you

506
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: don't really have to do anything during pre season, so

507
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: you're not making any intrusions and changing any visuals by

508
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: making shooting lanes or or entry and exit routes. You're

509
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: not leaving any human odor. You know, you don't have

510
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: to worry about sick control when you're scouting in postseason,

511
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: and nobody ever talked about that. So that was the

512
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 3: first thing that was a huge, huge That's big. Second

513
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 3: thing was in nineteen eighty one when I bought my

514
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: first saddle. I bought a treestling cost thirty nine dollars

515
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 3: ninety five cents so and I'm still hunting from that

516
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: same exact treesling. I've modified it a lot, but it's

517
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: the same one I've used since nineteen eighty one. That

518
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: made a huge uptick in my kills as well, because

519
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: it gave me more tree options. It gave me three

520
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty degrees shooting mobility around the tree. I

521
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: didn't have to worry about leaving stands on public land

522
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: because the saddle is always with me. You know, there's

523
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: just a gazillion advantage of the saddle over at tree

524
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: stand once you get used to it. Third thing was

525
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: was as big as postseason scouting because the saddle made

526
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: a difference, but it wasn't a major game change, but

527
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: it made a difference in the locations that I could

528
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: hunt and take advantage of the three sixty and not

529
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: worry about that. The third thing was hands down cent

530
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: lock when I bought my first cell a suit in

531
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six. It took me almost a year to

532
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 3: learn how to because sell lock very does a very

533
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: poor job at conveying how to properly care for store

534
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: and use their clothing. You know, they make nice clothing.

535
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: It's not overly expensive, but they do a very poor job,

536
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: in my opinion, of conveying how to properly use it

537
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: in conjunction with other sent free things like your backpack

538
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: or washing your aids on your sticks, or whatever the

539
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 3: case may be. So to give you an example, what

540
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: a difference that made from nineteen sixty five when I

541
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: started bow hunting until through nineteen ninety six, Because in

542
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six when I bought that suit, I really

543
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: didn't have a grasp on how to properly care for it,

544
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: and what did you in conjunction with You know, I

545
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: took my backpack out in the tree with me, which

546
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 3: I got into every day with my bare hands. So

547
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: it was a huge human CENTERI So it didn't matter

548
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 3: how well I took care of my body, I still

549
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: got the backpack here to scoop from. So in nineteen

550
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: ninety seven, from nineteen sixty five, through nineteen ninety six,

551
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: which is a I think thirty two seasons. I took

552
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: ten record book bucks in those how many years? Thirty

553
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: two seasons, I took ten record book blucks. From nineteen

554
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: ninety seven through twenty twenty three, I've taken forty five

555
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 3: record book blucks. It's different, so the stats are pretty

556
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: much there. I went from yeah, ten and thirty two

557
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 3: seasons to twenty or forty five bucks in twenty seven seasons.

558
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: And hopefully you were learning some things along that line

559
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: along that period too.

560
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: But I was obviously when I started in the sixties,

561
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: I was pretty novice and green because I have family

562
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: members that hunted. But by the mid seventies, I was

563
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 3: killing pretty much the best bucks in the area. I

564
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: was pretty decent in the mid seventies.

565
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: Okay, that's very insightful, and I love hearing about these Yeah, yeah,

566
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: it really is. And it's interesting to hear about these

567
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: major inflection points you had, you know, decades ago, seventies, eighties, nineties.

568
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: I'm curious about changes that might have happened recently. Can

569
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: you think of anything in the last five years, so

570
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: from from sixty eight years old to seventy three years old.

571
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: Can you think of any new belief, behavior, habit, something

572
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: like that that you've picked up in the last five

573
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 2: years that has significantly improved your hunting or hunting enjoyment.

574
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: Is there anything that stands out absolutely?

575
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: As you well know in an avid hunter yourself, you

576
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: know you key on in Michigan, you key on the

577
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: first three or four days if you're in a heavily

578
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: pressure if you're on public land, free permission properties, more

579
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 3: than likely any mature bucks that you want to killer

580
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: or nocturnam before season opens because the other hunters on

581
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 3: the property did things wrong during preseason so they but

582
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: still you key on those first five days of season.

583
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: You always got special five days, and then you got

584
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: the lull. You've got that October lull when handy mature

585
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: buck you want to kill is typically going to be

586
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 3: vetted all day or they're going to move into their

587
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 3: betting area before daylight. They may move a little in

588
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: their betting area during the day, but they're in heavy

589
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: security cover. So you've got that lull period and then

590
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 3: you get into pre run and that's when you start

591
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 3: spending most of your time on stand again. So during

592
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: that lull, i wasn't hunting much. And one thing I

593
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: have learned over the last four years is I'm hunting

594
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: a lot during the lull now, but i'm hunting, I'm sparring,

595
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: I'm doing spiring sequence. It's a long standing or six

596
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: four of the last bucks I've shot six book bucks

597
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 3: in the last three seasons, four in Michigan, two in Kansas,

598
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: and full of the four bucks I shot in Michigan

599
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: in the last three years that made book. Three of

600
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: them I rattled out of either standing corn or in

601
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 3: a betting area during the lull because when you do sparring,

602
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 3: not rattling sequences, not aggressive rattling sequences, because during the

603
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 3: law bucks are still they're sparring for pecking order. They're

604
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 3: just you know, you may see a ten point sparring

605
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: with a four point. Okay, you never see them fight

606
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: for breeding right now, but they're sparring for pecking order

607
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 3: in the four areas and so doing spiring sequences. Bucks

608
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 3: tend to bed a majority of the mature bucks bed

609
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: in the standing corn because it's for the most premium

610
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 3: security cover. You can have nobody walks in the cornfield

611
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 3: and then you can eat in it, so you got

612
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 3: dose betting in it, you can feed in it, and

613
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 3: it's the most superre your betting area you can have.

614
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 3: And most people are afraid of corn. Well, I can't

615
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 3: hunt this. You know this is going to suck until

616
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: the corn gets harvested. Well take advantage of it because

617
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 3: you can hunt the edge of the corn. You can

618
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: spire bucks out of the corn, and you're not molesting

619
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: your rot face hunting locations so that you're going to

620
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 3: hunt in the timber once the corn has been harvested,

621
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: so you're not ruining anything in the timber or betting

622
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: areas outside of the corn, you know for pre rud

623
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: hunting once the corn is down, but you can still

624
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 3: rattle or spar bucks out of the standing corn or

625
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 3: in betting areas. So to give you the betting area scenario,

626
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: two years ago, I was scouting some public land and

627
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: there was in the postseason and there was a betting

628
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 3: area at one of them that I it was a

629
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: decent betting area, but I had better betting areas to

630
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: hunt in my rotation. But it was a good betting area,

631
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 3: So I said, what the hell, you know, as is

632
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 3: the lull, I'm not going to hunt this betting area

633
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,479
Speaker 3: during the rut phases on this piece of public land.

634
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: So I'm going to go in there on a morning hunt,

635
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 3: get in my tree two hours for daylight, for the

636
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: bucks transition into the betting area, and if there is

637
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 3: a big mature book, if there is a decent mature

638
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 3: buck in that betting area, you know, about seven forty five,

639
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 3: I'm going to do a rattle of sparring sequence and

640
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 3: see if I can bring in because once they're in

641
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: their betting areas, they're much more apt to respond to something.

642
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: And it's a social thing, you know, it's it's also

643
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: sparring as a social activity. It's not a battle. And

644
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 3: at seven forty five I did a sparing sequence and

645
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 3: I did another one five minutes later at seven fifty

646
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 3: and the buck came in and I shot, so two

647
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: of them. I rattled the bucks out of standing corn

648
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: and the other one I sparred in in a betting

649
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: area interior of the betting area of a betting area.

650
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 3: Was not planning out on injuring the rough. So I've

651
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 3: learned three of the four bucks I've shot in the

652
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 3: last three years in Michigan to make book. We're during

653
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: the law and that's a time I try to avoid.

654
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big change. So when you're doing when

655
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: you're doing this edge of standing corn during the rut

656
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: or sorry, during the lull, with this idea of hey,

657
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 2: I'll probably do a little bit of sparring when you're

658
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: choosing a location like that. One thing I would be

659
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 2: thinking about if I'm specifically targeting the corn is where

660
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: I think my mature buck might be betted. Corn can

661
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: oftentimes look like a blank sheet of paper, like it

662
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: could be hard to find a specific concentration zone as

663
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: compared to when you're looking at a forest and you

664
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: can see, oh, there's this one area that's you know,

665
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: very very thick, or a different habitat topic. I know

666
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: there's probably something better there. But when you go about

667
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: trying to choose how you want to sit alongside of

668
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: a cornfield where there's not as much diversity, how do

669
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: you choose your hunt location for that type of hunt?

670
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 3: Excellent question. I'm not glad you asked what you want

671
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 3: to do because deer, especially mature bucks, they're always going

672
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: to gravitate to security cover. So when you walk the

673
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 3: perimeter or the standing corn, typically you've already scouted the

674
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 3: property during postseason and you know now you know it's

675
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 3: in standing corn, so you know what the perimeter or

676
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: the cornfield is. What you want to do is you

677
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: want to go to the standing corn wherever it butts

678
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: up to other security cover. You follow what I'm saying,

679
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 3: because I'm mature bucks much more likely to come out

680
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 3: of a out of a standing cornfield if he's going

681
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: from security cover or the corn to security cover of

682
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 3: the location off corn. So a lot of times when

683
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: I'm scouting postseason scouting and I'm walking the edge of

684
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 3: a perimeter of a crop field. You know you can

685
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 3: even do this on public There's a lot of public

686
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: land butts up the private corn. Okay, so you can

687
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 3: walk the edge. And if you see, let's say a

688
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: scrape area during postseason on the edge of a standing

689
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: or on the edge of a crop field and it

690
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: obviously the cropfield wasn't last year, Odds are is going

691
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 3: to be corn this year? Well, if that scrape area

692
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 3: has any semblance of security cover around it, that's going

693
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 3: to be the number one spot I'm going to want

694
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 3: to be because odds are that's that scrape area because

695
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: dos and bucks are going to be traveling in and

696
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 3: out of the standing corn, that scrape area will probably

697
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: be active again, you know, when it's in standing corn.

698
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 3: So if there's any tree there, that's going to be

699
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 3: the number one spot I would key on. But if

700
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 3: there were no scrape areas around the standing corn, I

701
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 3: would key on wherever the best security cover is that

702
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 3: butts up to the standing corn to make him feel

703
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 3: more comfortable committing to come out of the corn. Otherwise,

704
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 3: if you're just rattling along standing corn and let's say

705
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 3: it butts up to a weed field or a wide

706
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: open area, odds are he's not going to commit to

707
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: coming physically coming out of the corn. He'll probably still

708
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 3: come in, but he'll probably stop, you know, five to

709
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 3: ten fifteen rows from the edge, and if he gets

710
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: close enough to the edge and he can't see a visual,

711
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 3: he's not going to commit to come out and give

712
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: you a shot. Now, if it's on property you have

713
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 3: permission to hunt. You can actually make like a B

714
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: a B lane in the standing corn, maybe twenty five

715
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 3: yards out, make of four three or four foot wide

716
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 3: B lane. That way, if you see a buck coming

717
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: through the corn, if the rollers are running parallel, to

718
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 3: the edge. You could maybe see a buck coming through

719
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 3: the first one and shoot him when he goes through

720
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 3: the second b Yeah, get ready for it. But man,

721
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 3: two years ago, I raddled sixteen bucks out of standing

722
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 3: corn by the fifteenth October.

723
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: Yea in Michigan, in Michigan, between the.

724
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 3: First and and I didn't even start doing it until

725
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 3: the fifth of October. So in a ten day period,

726
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: I rattled in sixteen bucks. Now only one of them

727
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: was a shooter. The others were all subordinate, but I

728
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 3: shot him.

729
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a heck of a number right there.

730
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: Last year I only rapped six Last year, I spared

731
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: in six the year before that sixteenth. So the changes

732
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 3: from here to year depending on where the deer are

733
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 3: in the corner.

734
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: All Right, you're pulling me onto a tangent here, But

735
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 2: I ask a couple more tangents or a couple more

736
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 2: follow ups on this. With your sparring, your lull sparring sequences,

737
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 2: how many times would you do that in a sit?

738
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 2: Is that like a once a sit sparring thing you'll do?

739
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: And I have an assumption of what a what a

740
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: sparring sequence might sound like, But I'm curious I guess

741
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: I want to know for sure. Can you just describe

742
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: how long would this sparring sequence be. I'm assuming it's

743
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 2: very subtle tickling and stuff like that, but please some

744
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,959
Speaker 2: details on the sparring sequence and how often you would

745
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: do that and when in a sit would you do that? Okay?

746
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 3: Typically, so it's worked best on morning ons because in

747
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 3: the morning it's dead quiet. Typically, so when you do

748
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: a soft sparring sequence, a deer that's out in the

749
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: corn two hundred yards can hear it. Okay, So that

750
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 3: in the morning, because it's so dead quiet, they can

751
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: hear your noise. It's a lot farther, so asparing sequence

752
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 3: is going to be. And I use a rattle bag.

753
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: I do not use antlers. I've been using the same

754
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: night nail rattle bag for over thirty years. I've had

755
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 3: to replace the fabric, but the sticks are still the same.

756
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 2: Bag.

757
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: I'll separate the sticks in the bag and then I'll

758
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 3: make just one quick little clang, you know, jire the

759
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: sticks together, and then I just gently roll them together

760
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 3: for maybe ten seconds, eight to ten seconds, and then

761
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: I'll stop, and then maybe ten seconds later I'll do

762
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 3: that again. I won't make the initial flash, but I'll

763
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 3: just roll the sticks together and you know, make like

764
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 3: two bucks are pushing on each other and meshing their horns.

765
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: It's nothing like what you hear on TV in the

766
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: rattle sequence. There's nothing aggressive about this. But you do

767
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 3: that about you do a spar, you do quiet, You

768
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 3: do a spar, you do quiet, you do spa, you

769
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 3: do a quiet. It may take a minute to do

770
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 3: a full sequence, and then I'll do them five minutes apart.

771
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 3: So on a morning hunt, i'll do it between seven

772
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: forty five, depends on where I'm at first. If I'm

773
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 3: on the edge of a standing corn, I'll probably do

774
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: it about seven point thirty. If i'd me in a

775
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 3: physical betting area, like I was on that public land

776
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 3: betting area, I'll do it about seven forty five because

777
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: I know the bucks are still going to be up

778
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: and moving around, and they're in a betting area. They

779
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 3: don't have any issues coming back and forth by you.

780
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 3: I'll do it five minutes apart and then I'm done.

781
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: So whether it be morning or evening, I only do

782
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: two sequences. In evening, I'm going to do them about

783
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 3: forty five minutes before dark. The first one and then

784
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 3: another one five minutes later. I always do them in succession,

785
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 3: and I always do the first sequence lighter than the

786
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: second sequence because the first sequence, let's say there's a

787
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: buck betted fifty yards from you. If you make the

788
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,959
Speaker 3: first sequence, it's too loud, he may not commit. Because

789
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 3: spiring sequences are very quiet, low key. You've heard them before,

790
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: I'm sure. So you want to do the first one

791
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: a little bit lower key, to a little bit lower

792
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: volume to possibly bring something in that's close, and then

793
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 3: the second one you want to raise the volume a

794
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 3: little bit to possibly catch the attention of something farther

795
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 3: out in the field. And it's kind of interesting because

796
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 3: when you do a sequence for a minute, you know

797
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: where you're doing probably three or four physical sparing sequences.

798
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 3: The rattling noises bucks have like an internal GPS.

799
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 2: They know exactly crazy.

800
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 3: I rattled in an ELK on my my second elkhon

801
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 3: on federal land in Colorado out of saddle. I was

802
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 3: off in the tree. I rattled in a five by

803
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: five that I shot with my night white tail rattleman. Yeah, yeah,

804
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 3: that was that was That's pretty much I'll made me

805
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 3: do that. But I just what the hell, you know too,

806
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: and I just did. I did an aggressive sequence to

807
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: call that alka. Yeah, I think I was the first

808
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: guy probably ever to shoot an elk out of the

809
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 3: saddle and definitely the first guy to rattle in and

810
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 3: elk with a white tail rattle.

811
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a heck of a story.

812
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: Interesting, interesting stuff. So let's uh, let's let's shift a

813
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: little bit to habits. I'm curious about a couple of

814
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: things when it comes to your habits. Is there any

815
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 2: unusual habit that other people find absurd when they hear

816
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: about you doing this, but that you strongly believe helps

817
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 2: you as a hunter. So a habit that other folks

818
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: think is nuts that you stand by because it truly

819
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 2: does help you.

820
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 3: Yes, well, Selloc's probably my number one habit because I

821
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 3: get a lot of mocking on social media because people

822
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 3: have no concept what they're talking about when they talk

823
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 3: about side control. The know nothing about activated carbon. But

824
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: as far as what you're talking about morning on morning hunts,

825
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 3: I'm always in my tree an hour and a half

826
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 3: before daylight, and most people think that's crazy. And it's

827
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: kind of interesting because ninety five percent of the time

828
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 3: you get in your tree an hour and a half

829
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 3: four daylight. It's not going to make any damn difference.

830
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 3: But the five percent of the time, you know, the

831
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: one out of twenty times a buck goes into a

832
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,760
Speaker 3: betting area forty five minutes or half an hour before

833
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 3: daylight and then you make your entry. You know, twenty

834
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 3: minutes before daylight, you're not gonna get a shot at

835
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 3: that deor you're not even going to know you spooked

836
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 3: him when you walk into that bedding area during the rough.

837
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 3: So being on stand early is a habit that a

838
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 3: lot of people. Man, you're getting a treat that early. Yeah,

839
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: And it's it's something I've just been used to and

840
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 3: I've I've always done it since the mid seventies. And

841
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: probably what got me to do that was again in

842
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 3: the mid seventies seventies seven. I remember I was going

843
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 3: in and I was hunting where there was a cedar

844
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 3: swamp and then there was a small ridge up up

845
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 3: to an oak flat white oak, white and red oak

846
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 3: both And this is in Michigan. Obviously I didn't hun

847
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: out of stay killed in ninety seven, but I went

848
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 3: I was going in on a morning hunt and I

849
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 3: was going in about a half hour before daylight, and

850
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 3: I'm walking I'm gonna I'm gonna hunt one another trees

851
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 3: along the edge of the cedar swamp, catching deer coming

852
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: out of the oak ridge down into the cedars the

853
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 3: bed for the day. And as I'm walking down the

854
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 3: edge of these cedars, I spooked the deer. And when

855
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 3: I got up to where the deer spooked, I mean,

856
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 3: the tarsloder was just the stench was strong, and I know,

857
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 3: you know exactly what I'm going to do. There was

858
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 3: a buck bedded here, and I really didn't think a

859
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: lot about it, but I walked by it and I

860
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: got in my tree and all I'm thinking, blah blah.

861
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 3: So the next time I went in there, three days later,

862
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: I didn't shoot anything. That day, I spoke the same

863
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 3: deer in the same exact spot at the same exact

864
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 3: time with my half hour before daylight entry. And then

865
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 3: it clicked, he is staged there, and he probably came

866
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: in there, betted there an hour before daylight to intercept

867
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 3: all the dough activity coming off the soak ridge. So

868
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 3: that's when I started getting in my trees an hour

869
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: and a half before daylight. And I've had a lot

870
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 3: of guys email me that read my books that read that,

871
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 3: and they said, boy, what a difference that made to them.

872
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: The guys that shot bucks that were moving, they basically

873
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 3: transitioned into the bedding area or to the edge of

874
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: a bedding area where they were physically at but then

875
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 3: they felt comfortable. The bucks felt comfortable. They were either

876
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: going to stage there for those coming through, or they

877
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 3: started feeding on acorns under the tree, and then they

878
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 3: stayed there and fed because they're next to or within

879
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 3: security cover. They felt comfortable and they could hear anything coming,

880
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 3: any danger, and they kept feeding until you know, five

881
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 3: or ten minutes after daylight, and then they shot up. Yep,

882
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 3: And if they would have went in with a half

883
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 3: hour before daylight entry, they would have spooked him in

884
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: never mom.

885
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 2: It mm hmm. Yeah. That's another eber heart ism that

886
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: I picked up that's helped me a lot too.

887
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 3: Well. And it's kind of it's kind of sad because

888
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: so many times you do it and it doesn't pay

889
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 3: you any dividends. But the time it.

890
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 2: Does, Hey, but you get a really nice tree set

891
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: on that. If nothing else, which I do enjoy.

892
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 3: I always go to sleep for an hour.

893
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 2: Before Okay, so this your answer to this next question

894
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 2: might be the same as what we just is what

895
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 2: you just described, but just in case it's not. So,

896
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: what you just told me was your most unusual habit

897
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: that's important but people think is absurd. More simply, what

898
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: would you say is your most important habit of anything

899
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: related to deer hunting or maybe even life that maybe

900
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 2: in some way does trans translate to hunting. What's your

901
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: single most important habit?

902
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 3: Uh, never be a fit upfraid of failure. So if

903
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 3: you don't try things out and fail, you're never going

904
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 3: to learn and progress and go forward. But my habit,

905
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 3: say that question one more time about my most important habit?

906
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 2: So what would you what would you point a finger

907
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 2: at as your most important habit that thing that you

908
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: always do, this thing that's part of your life, either

909
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 2: every single day of your life or just during hunting season.

910
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 2: So regardless of what people think, whether they think it's

911
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: smart or stupid, just what's that number one habit that

912
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: you think translates for you knowing?

913
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's a habit that knowing the

914
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: daily and seasonal timing for every hunting locations became a

915
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 3: habit once that's a learned process. And once you've learned

916
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: the seasonal and daily timing of every location you have

917
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 3: prop because I have this year, I've got fift over

918
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 3: fifty trees strapped right now for ball, probably only a

919
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: dozen of them, but I've got that many right but

920
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 3: knowing the daily and seasonal timing of when to hunt

921
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 3: them and how to hunt them. And I don't know

922
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 3: if you call it a habit.

923
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: You've made a habit of preparing in that way in

924
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: which you know and have all that set. So that's

925
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: a fair thing to describe, I'd say, yeah, flip side

926
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: of that, then what is the mistake that you keep making?

927
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 2: There must be something. There must be some mistake that

928
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: you know, I got to get better at this or

929
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 2: I continue to struggle with this and that continues to

930
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: be a hump that you are still working on getting over.

931
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: Is there anything you can put a finger at as well?

932
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 3: Is that for? You don't know if it's terms of

933
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 3: a mistake. But the home bo I'm having right now

934
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 3: is shooting. I mean I can still I'm down to

935
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 3: a forty pound bow, which you know, getting old sucks.

936
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 3: It's just part of life. And I literally cannot draw

937
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 3: a forty five pound bow anymore because my shoulders are

938
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 3: so bad. So it's not a mistake. But I'm struggling

939
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 3: because I definitely never want to go to a cross

940
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 3: bow unless I absolutely have to. In most states now

941
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 3: you can't unt with a bowl under forty pounds, so

942
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 3: I'm right on that edge. I mean, I've I've killed

943
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 3: every deer i've shota with a forty pound bow and

944
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 3: had a clean pass through because I'm shooting lighter arrows

945
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 3: and fixed blade small cut fixed blade heads. I wouldn't

946
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: consider that a mistake though. That's just part of life. Sure,

947
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 3: mistake or mistake do I consistently make I have a

948
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 3: harder time getting up out of bed to hunt hunt

949
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 3: in the mornings. I mean, as you get older, you

950
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 3: just I just I still have the passion and the desire.

951
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 3: But sometimes when the alarm clock goes off now and

952
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 3: it never would have happened ten years ago, I turned

953
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 3: the alarm clock off and go back to sleep. And

954
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 3: but I think a lot of that is attributed to

955
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 3: motion cameras as well, because I've got motion cameras now,

956
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 3: because they're all sell cameras and I have them. You

957
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 3: know some at my locations that are fourteen feet off

958
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 3: the ground so the deer can't see them, and I

959
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 3: put them in August, so I'm not you know, having

960
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 3: to intrude into the spot to check an SD card.

961
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 3: So I guess that would that would probably when there's

962
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 3: nothing on camera, it's hard to get motivated on a

963
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 3: morning hunt. Sure, and I've shot, you know, I've several

964
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 3: three times I've shot bucks that were book bucks that

965
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,919
Speaker 3: I never had on camera. So just because you don't

966
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 3: have one on camera, the meaning couldn't come through the area,

967
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 3: just not going in front of the camera.

968
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 2: That is the risk of those cameras that they can

969
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: provide a false sense of what's out there, and then you, uh,

970
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 2: I've become too dependent on them and then had that

971
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,919
Speaker 2: exact same thought you just described. We're like, ah, there's

972
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: nothing moving, and then I do go out there once

973
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 2: and then I see two great bucks, but they're sixty

974
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: seventy yards away, and they could have been in the

975
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 2: area the whole time and I never would have known it.

976
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, h Yeah, I've shot I've shot good real

977
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty some inch bucks that I never

978
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 3: had on camera. They avoided the camera that when they

979
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 3: would come in to check the scrape area, they would

980
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 3: do it down wind. They never came into the scrape. Yeah,

981
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: not even in night. That's what surprised me. I never

982
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 3: even had ninetime pictures all the work than the scrapes.

983
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 3: But when they'd come when when they came through, which

984
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 3: was the only time I saw them, they came to

985
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 3: the down wind side of the scrapes, twenty yards and

986
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 3: sun checking.

987
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

988
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 3: That was their demise. Yeah, but I did not know

989
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: they were there.

990
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes you's got to be out there.

991
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: Yep.

992
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 2: So whether I guess, quite simply, I'll just ask, what

993
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 2: is your process for getting better at something? Whether it

994
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 2: be the things you just described that you've struggled with

995
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 2: what you know, shooting right now, or or just getting

996
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 2: better and always getting up and getting out there in

997
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: the woods, or if it's something totally different, how does

998
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 2: John Eberhart get better?

999
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: I just I'd work harder. I find myself not being

1000
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 3: able to work. Like location preparation. You know, scouting is

1001
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 3: no big deal because you're walking. That's not a big deal.

1002
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 3: Whether you're wearing waiters or using a canoe or whatever.

1003
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 3: That's no big deal. Location preparation is something that I

1004
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: can't do as fast as I used to. I usually

1005
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: prep everything myself, So I'm getting I'm getting better over

1006
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 3: the last ten years, i'd say, and being a little

1007
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: more detail and oriented when I'm prepping locations, because, as

1008
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 3: you well know, scouting and proper location preparation is ninety

1009
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 3: percent of the game. You know, the kill is just

1010
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: the byproduct of all your other hard work. So I

1011
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 3: tend to as I'm getting older, I'm forcing myself to

1012
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 3: work harder because I have to put more hours into

1013
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: my work and location preparation because I can't do it

1014
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 3: as well and as fast as I used to. So

1015
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 3: I'm having to work harder if you get the same

1016
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 3: amount of work done.

1017
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: Makes sense?

1018
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 3: Makes sense?

1019
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. And it's a perfect segue to another

1020
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 2: question in the list, which is you mentioned working harder,

1021
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: and that's something that probably any successful deer hunter will say,

1022
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,879
Speaker 2: is you have to work harder, right, But what does

1023
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: that actually mean? Can you define what hard work means

1024
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: for you?

1025
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, hard work would be well, location preparation, it's it's labor,

1026
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: you know, we're talking labor prepping a tree, you know,

1027
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 3: whether you're using spikes or you know, having to go

1028
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: up the tree with sticks and clear out the area

1029
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 3: in the tree, clearing entry and exit routes because a

1030
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 3: lot of times your entry route is different than your

1031
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 3: exit route depending on you know, the location. Hunting, clearing,

1032
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 3: shooting lanes. You know, that's all. That's all work. I

1033
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 3: I never view scouting the physical scouting has worked because

1034
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 3: when I'm scouting, I'm just on foot. I don't take

1035
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 3: my location preparation here. When I'm scouting, I will totally

1036
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 3: go in and scouting area and you know, waypoint, mark

1037
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 3: what air, what trees I may want to hunt, or locations,

1038
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 3: and then I'll come back with my location preparation gear

1039
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 3: to prepare them. If they're on private or you know,

1040
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 3: I'll clean them up a little bit. If they're on public.

1041
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 3: You know, I'll cheat and cut some stuff on public,

1042
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 3: you know, during postseason, so that it's out of the way.

1043
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 3: And I'm not making a pre season entry to change

1044
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 3: any to change anything and cut anything, so I'm leaving

1045
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 3: any order. Sure, So work is just it's just the

1046
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 3: physical labor I'm doing out in the woods. Is what

1047
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 3: I would be buying is work, And I can't stand

1048
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 3: it when I'm like with my kids, like Joe, my

1049
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 3: son who owns saddle Under Nation the Facebook page. I

1050
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 3: shouldn't say this, but it's true. I can't watch other

1051
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 3: people prep stuff because I'm so fussy on how I

1052
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 3: want to do it. If I'm preparing a tree, even

1053
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 3: if you know, like Joe picked up twelve acres and

1054
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 3: we were prepped four locations on it, you know, I

1055
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 3: prepped all the trees even though they're for him, because

1056
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 3: he likes the way I prep them, because all the

1057
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 3: stuffs and everything are perfectly placed where you can move

1058
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 3: around the free and one point doesn't go lower than

1059
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 3: the other. So I do all the prop while he

1060
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: may be doing lane you know, shooting, lane clearing, or

1061
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: whatever the case may be do. So that's what I

1062
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 3: consider working labor.

1063
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 2: How many days in the off season do you think

1064
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: you're out there doing something like that?

1065
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 3: January? It depends on when once the snow melts. I

1066
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 3: never I never scout until the snow melts because any

1067
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 3: sign in the snow is totally misleading because deer will

1068
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 3: change where they bed during season when they start getting

1069
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 3: snow on the ground and hunting season's over. And they're

1070
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 3: not being molested. You know, they'll move down into lower

1071
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 3: ground where they're more protected from the cold winds and

1072
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 3: where they're closer to a preferred heating or in a

1073
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 3: lot of times they'll migrate, you know, like in the

1074
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 3: up up to fifteen miles with cedar swamp. So so

1075
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 3: sign you see in the snow is totally misrepresentation of

1076
00:59:54,720 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 3: what those deer are doing in the fall. So what

1077
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 3: was the question? You don't you forget the question?

1078
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 2: How many days do you spend in the off season

1079
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 2: doing that kind of thing?

1080
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 3: Okay, once the snow has gone. In the last few years,

1081
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 3: you know, the snow has been gone pretty early, so

1082
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 3: usually by this year, I think in February I was

1083
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 3: scouting and days this year I would say twenty scouting

1084
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 3: new properties, going on, checking out new public lands. You know,

1085
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 3: we did that twelve acres, which took two days. And

1086
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 3: that's the cool thing about postseason. You can rape and

1087
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 3: pillage and yeah, you can spook every year in the county.

1088
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter all that. Yeah, so I at least

1089
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 3: twenty days.

1090
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 2: So twenty days of scouting. Does that include.

1091
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 3: Scouting and location or if it's on public cleaning out

1092
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 3: whatever I can and get away with yep.

1093
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 2: Okay, So I want to take a deep breath here.

1094
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 3: Just during postseason. That doesn't like I do some pre

1095
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 3: season speed tours as well, ye, which that's days also okay.

1096
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 2: So I want to take a second and step away

1097
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 2: from this process oriented approach and just briefly talk gear

1098
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 2: to give us a mental moment, and then I'm going

1099
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: to throw you right back into the fire. But tell

1100
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 2: me this, what purchase of one hundred dollars or less

1101
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 2: has most positively impacted your hunting success or enjoyment? So

1102
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 2: what's something you bought for a hundred bucks or less

1103
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 2: that has made the most positive impact on your hunting.

1104
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 3: Satell I bought in nineteen eighty one for thirty nine

1105
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 3: ninety tis by far, there's nothing remotely.

1106
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 2: Close under a great point prices.

1107
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 3: Right, Well, let's back up a bit, because they're not

1108
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 3: thirty nine to ninety five anymore anymore. You're talking about

1109
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 3: something currently that would be under one hundred dollars price

1110
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 3: point if I, if I didn't have a rattle bag,

1111
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 3: and I and I, you know, having having something to

1112
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 3: make sparing sequences, I already have it, but that if

1113
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 3: I didn't, that would be something that I would highly

1114
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 3: recommend and invest in, and then learning how to properly

1115
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:28,919
Speaker 3: use it and when to use it and what type

1116
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: of locations do you use at. I think I think

1117
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 3: sparring is something that ninety percent hunters are afraid to

1118
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 3: do because they've done rattling and it's spook beer and

1119
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 3: that they don't understand. Sparring works anywhere if you're in

1120
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 3: the right types of security cover, you know where a

1121
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 3: buck can has to come through the security cover to

1122
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 3: commit get buck close enough to commit to seeing what

1123
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 3: made the noise. Obviously, you don't want to spar if

1124
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 3: you're in an area where a buck can see eighty

1125
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 3: yards to the base of your tree, because if he

1126
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 3: comes out, you rattle him out of something, and then

1127
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 3: now he's got to go eighty yards across open and

1128
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 3: vulnerable area to get to where the noises were made.

1129
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 3: He's not going to do that in the daylight. So

1130
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 3: if he can't see a visual, he's not going to

1131
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 3: commit to it. So it's got to be security cover

1132
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 3: butting up close to within your shooting branch.

1133
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a very key point there to keep

1134
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 2: in mind. For them. Kind of the inverse of that question.

1135
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 2: If you had to give up all of your fancy,

1136
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 2: high quality hunting gear that you've accumulated over the years,

1137
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 2: You've got to give up your your great camo, your

1138
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 2: great bow, your great boots, your great optics, your fancy

1139
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 2: cell cameras, all that stuff, and it had to be

1140
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: replaced with entry level products. So all of your hunting

1141
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 2: gear was going to be replaced with like the bare bones,

1142
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 2: entry level Walmart version of all your hunting gear except

1143
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 2: for one thing. You can keep one category of top tier,

1144
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 2: high end stuff, So you could keep your high end bow,

1145
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: or your high end camera, or your high whatever. What

1146
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: would be that one category that you would want to

1147
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 2: keep the high end. So another way to look at

1148
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: this is, if you had to only choose one category

1149
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,919
Speaker 2: to spend extra money on, what would that be?

1150
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 3: Lock? Hands it down? Okay, not not even a contest.

1151
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 3: Unt Lock is the biggest game changer there is. And

1152
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 3: if you do, once you learn.

1153
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 2: How to properly use it, Okay, that's easy. That was

1154
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 2: super simple, very easy, And you are consistent. John, You've

1155
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 2: been talking about this for the for years and years

1156
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 2: and years, so no one can say that you are

1157
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 2: chasing anything other than what you consistently believe in on

1158
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 2: that front, which I respect.

1159
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I still struggle comprehending outcome. Warhunters don't use activated carbon.

1160
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,479
Speaker 3: It's not cell Lock. You know, I'm not the cell

1161
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: Lock name is irrelevant. Sure somebody else made activated carbon

1162
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 3: line clothing. It would you know if I would be

1163
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 3: on board with them as well. So it's the activated carbon.

1164
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 3: It's not the brand. It's not like they just haven't

1165
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 3: known the patent. I'm using activating carbons, so nobody else

1166
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 3: can use it. So everybody else says it doesn't work,

1167
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 3: and everybody else is followers like Lemmings jumping off the

1168
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 3: cliff with somebody that says it doesn't work.

1169
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 2: Fair enough.

1170
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, off of gear.

1171
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 2: That was our gear. That was our gear detour. Now

1172
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 2: I want to get back to the hunt, and I

1173
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 2: would love to understand what your decision making process looks

1174
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 2: like before heading out for a hunt. So you know,

1175
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 2: for me, you know, the night before a morning hunt,

1176
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 2: I'm laying in bed thinking through a thousand things, trying

1177
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 2: to side you know, this variable, this variable, this variable,

1178
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 2: and then probably in the morning again I'm checking stuff

1179
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 2: and double checking my thought process all that. What does

1180
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 2: that look like for you?

1181
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 3: Okay, first, I want to say, as far as First

1182
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,919
Speaker 3: Light's concerned, I'm a big First Light fan as well.

1183
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 3: Is the farst based garments, thank you, because Marino wool

1184
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 3: is hands down the best base garment you can buy. Period.

1185
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 3: End of discussion. So the question was.

1186
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 2: What decision making process before hunt?

1187
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 3: Decision making process before I hunt? I actually my closest

1188
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 3: spot to Hunts thirty five minutes from my house, so

1189
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 3: I may have something in mind when I leave my house,

1190
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 3: but I'm thinking all the time i'm driving to where

1191
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 3: I'm going because I don't have any locations, whether it

1192
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 3: be public or private that I don't have multiple, multiple

1193
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 3: locations preps. So I'm always thinking. Even though I've already

1194
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 3: thought I made my mind up, I'm still thinking and

1195
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 3: I may change my mind before I get there. Yeah,

1196
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 3: so I'm not paying attention to wind direction. Wind direction

1197
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 3: never enters my thought process. I shouldn't say never, because

1198
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 3: a lot of times when I'm sometimes when i'm setting

1199
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 3: up a primary scrape area location, you know, I'll set

1200
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 3: up a tree if it's on the south side or

1201
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 3: southeast side of the of the actual scrape area. I'll

1202
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 3: set it up knowing that big bucks mature bucks sent

1203
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 3: check scrape areas from downwind, So I'll set it up

1204
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 3: where I got a twenty five yard shot to the

1205
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 3: actual scrapes, and then I'll have a shooting line twenty

1206
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 3: five yards down wind to me. So if a butt

1207
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 3: checks at any place from twenty five yards for up

1208
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 3: to fifty yards down wind to the scrapes, I will

1209
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 3: get that shot. So as far as driving going to

1210
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 3: my which location what drives my thought process? Okay? Or

1211
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 3: the acorns still on the ground, if they've been scarfed up,

1212
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 3: apples still on the ground, if it's you know, if

1213
01:07:55,680 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 3: it's a destination mood location, the time of season obviously,

1214
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 3: if it's if it's pre rut, which is in my opinion,

1215
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 3: the best ten days of the season. If it's during

1216
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 3: pre rut, you know, which of my locations offers the

1217
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:12,919
Speaker 3: best funnel or the best opportunity for a buck moving

1218
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 3: during daylight hours, because all signed in the world is

1219
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 3: meaningless if it's not made during the daylight so, you know,

1220
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 3: and it's not revisited during daytime, so just rain. You know,

1221
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 3: if it's if it's a nice drizzle of rain or

1222
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 3: if it's a bluebird day. You know, if it's if

1223
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 3: it's windy or it's raining, I may go into a

1224
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 3: bedding area for an evening hunt, Whereas if it was

1225
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 3: dry and sunny, I wouldn't because I'd be making too

1226
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 3: much noise. But if it were windy or rainy, I'd

1227
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 3: have the wind the rain to mask my noise. Because

1228
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 3: I love hunting interiors of betting areas. That's my number

1229
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 3: one go to spot after early season, you know, when

1230
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 3: everything's betting defeating, so the time of the season, the weather,

1231
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 3: not the wind, but the weather, and obviously what I

1232
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 3: have on my cameras. You know, if I get if

1233
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 3: I'm getting some consistent moving you know, like every third day,

1234
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 3: I'm getting a buck every third or fourth day, I'm

1235
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 3: getting a buck coming by a specific location. That would

1236
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 3: definitely play into Okay, I need to go with that spot. Yeah,

1237
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 3: kind of a vague answer, but that's all I got.

1238
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 2: That's fine. I'm curious then if there is any kind

1239
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 2: of deer hunting related decision that you struggle to make.

1240
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 2: So is there any decision throughout a deer hunt or

1241
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 2: throughout the hunting season that you somewhat frequently struggle with

1242
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,759
Speaker 2: and if so, how do you overcome that struggle.

1243
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 3: I don't really struggle with that. I make my decision

1244
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 3: and I stick with it. You know, There's many times

1245
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 3: I'll get in a tree and I'm thinking to myself, Man,

1246
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 3: I should be over there. Everybody does.

1247
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking about, is when I asked this

1248
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 2: questions that kind of thing.

1249
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, but once once I commit to a location, I

1250
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 3: commit to a location. I I on a few All

1251
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 3: Days sets, I've physically been in a location and seen

1252
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 3: morning activity maybe two hundred yards away, you know, during

1253
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 3: the rough phases. When I do All day sets, usually

1254
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 3: the foliage is down, so I got a big visual

1255
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 3: because the foliage is down, and if I see movements

1256
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,719
Speaker 3: farther away, I'll pull my sticks and stuff and move

1257
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,679
Speaker 3: for the you know, mid the rest of the midday

1258
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 3: in the evening. But other than that, typically, if I,

1259
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 3: if I'm committed to a location, even if I think

1260
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 3: I should be in this one, I'm going to stay

1261
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 3: where I'm at. Once you commit to something, you should

1262
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 3: stick with it because I think when you get down

1263
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 3: and move, you're just possibly altering your activity. Because I

1264
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 3: mean been in the tree a while. Obviously the deer

1265
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 3: could be starting to move, and you may alter dear

1266
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 3: activity because human human activity affects deer movements more than

1267
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 3: any other factor period human activity. So I don't want

1268
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 3: to molest anything by moving once I'm committed to a spot.

1269
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 2: It's risky. That's for sure. That that very thing bit

1270
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: me in the butt last year, So I.

1271
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:32,719
Speaker 3: Uh, you gotta tell me how that happened.

1272
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 2: I yeah, I moved in a spot and I was

1273
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 2: hunting a location tight to a betting area that I

1274
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 2: knew the buck I was after spent a lot of

1275
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 2: time in and the wind shifted on me. And I

1276
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 2: do still obsess over the wind myself personally, and so

1277
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 2: when the wind shifted to blowing into that betting area,

1278
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 2: I sat there and say, oh gosh, this isn't good.

1279
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 2: And I was worrying, like part of me is saying,

1280
01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 2: you don't want to move because you know you're gonna

1281
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 2: spook deer and he might be coming, and you know,

1282
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 2: when you're climbing down from the tree, he might show

1283
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 2: up and you can blow it all up vice versa.

1284
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 2: He might be going into that bedding area any moment now,

1285
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 2: and get a big whiff of me, and then my

1286
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 2: hunt's done too, and there could be twenty other deer

1287
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 2: that would want to use that betting are and you're

1288
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 2: going to blow out twenty deer or ten deer or

1289
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 2: whatever it is. And so I went back and forth,

1290
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 2: back and forth on that, and then I finally decided,

1291
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 2: you know what, I got to get out of here,

1292
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 2: like it's it was blowing the worst possible place. And

1293
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 2: I take my son control really serious. But I know

1294
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 2: that I'm not. I'm not I'm personally not able to

1295
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 2: make it one hundred percent. So I knew that, you know,

1296
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 2: stuff would win me. So I pulled. I started pulling

1297
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 2: down my set, and as I'm about to about to

1298
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 2: climb out of my platform, I hear snap. I turn

1299
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 2: over my shoulder, and it had been a windy, rainy

1300
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 2: day and the one buck I was after was twenty

1301
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 2: five yards away walking right through my tree through my

1302
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 2: shooting lane.

1303
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 7: Oh no, yeah, last season, yeah, last season.

1304
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 2: And and it gets worse john, because so I was devastated.

1305
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:06,759
Speaker 2: So he walked through my lane. My bow had already

1306
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 2: been like lowered down on the rope, so I was

1307
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 2: able to pull back up without him seeing that, but

1308
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,600
Speaker 2: he got into my wind and got just kind of

1309
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:17,759
Speaker 2: wiggy and and eventually gets kind of like slowly trotted

1310
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 2: off before I was able to get a shot.

1311
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 3: Do you think had you not moved down the tree

1312
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 3: part way and had to get back up, that he

1313
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 3: still would have winded you?

1314
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 2: Or if I had, if I had still had my

1315
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 2: bow up there, if I was like, if I'd just

1316
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 2: been hunting, I would have I would have noticed him

1317
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 2: before he got to my wind, and I would have

1318
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 2: had a wonderful shot.

1319
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 3: Got so much.

1320
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it cost me that opportunity. So he runs off

1321
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 2: to that betting air. I pulled on my set and

1322
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 2: I decide, Okay, I blew this sucker up. I'm going

1323
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:54,719
Speaker 2: to go and move to the other side of the property,

1324
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 2: to the far opposite side of this betting area now

1325
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 2: and hope that maybe I can catch him working this

1326
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 2: side of it in the evening. And he did it,

1327
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 2: and I got a shot at him in that that

1328
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 2: that evening and hit him in the shoulder and didn't

1329
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 2: kill him.

1330
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had had you not moved, he wouldn't have

1331
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 3: come out in that other spoty, But it came out

1332
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 3: where you had.

1333
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 2: Been quite possibly, yes, yes, quite possibly. So I got

1334
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 2: effectively had a shot opportunity in the morning, and then

1335
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 2: my pivot gave me a shot opportunity in the evening

1336
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 2: and I blew both of them. So that was that

1337
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 2: was a what what what I would look back on

1338
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 2: as my worst day in my dear hunting life. Probably

1339
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 2: Now I did end up killing him in uh end

1340
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 2: of November, so I caught back up to him a

1341
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 2: month later. But uh, but that's a that's a story

1342
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: for a different days November. That was that was with

1343
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 2: a gun. At that point, he was wounded. I could

1344
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 2: tell he was infected and it was a bad deal

1345
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: and I needed to do whatever I could to u.

1346
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 3: Dangering.

1347
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 2: He had like all sorts of pusts and stuff in there.

1348
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 2: It was it wasn't good. So I was able to

1349
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 2: uh to wrap that one up and end it as

1350
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 2: ethically as I possibly could.

1351
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 3: I will I will say this, the biggest buck I

1352
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 3: ever shot, which was one hundred and eighty enter, was

1353
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 3: one that I got down and moved on an all basis.

1354
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 3: I got down and moved at ten o'clock and I

1355
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 3: ended up shooting it.

1356
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 2: Like yeah, sometimes it pans out. Yeah, So along these lines.

1357
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: I think, you know, dealing with tough decisions or dealing

1358
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 2: with mistakes like what I just described.

1359
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 3: I think it doesn't make your honey man, if you

1360
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 3: never made a mistake, it would be boring.

1361
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 2: It's very true, very true. So so that's a perfect

1362
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:47,919
Speaker 2: leading to this, which is, how would you define mental

1363
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 2: toughness in the context of deer hunting and how does

1364
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 2: that factor into your deer hunting success if at all?

1365
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 3: Big ten, I think mental toughness I have a complete

1366
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 3: chapter on mental toughness in my new book. Mental toughness

1367
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 3: is not worrying about conditions, weather conditions in clement weather,

1368
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:15,719
Speaker 3: thirty mile an hour, thirty five mile an hour winds,

1369
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 3: you know, rain, as long as it's not up driving

1370
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 3: pouring rain and going hunting regardless. There are so many

1371
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 3: hunters that as soon as there's any type of fall

1372
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 3: weather they give up their hunt. Oh they're not going

1373
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 3: to move tonight, blah blah blah. And I have killed

1374
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 3: deer in weather conditions that were you would never think

1375
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,759
Speaker 3: a deer would move in and typical dose and stuff

1376
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 3: don't use you know, they like blueber day. But when

1377
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 3: you're hunting in severe in clement weather. You know, mature

1378
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 3: bocks during the rough phases, they want to breathe and

1379
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 3: they're going to move, they can't go inside. So I

1380
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 3: think mental conditioning, where you don't let anything affect what

1381
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 3: you're going to do concerning hunting plays a big, big

1382
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 3: part in success because when you're hunting pressure areas, opportunities

1383
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 3: are so few, and the more you're out there, I'm

1384
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 3: not saying you have to still hunt smart, but the

1385
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 3: more you're out there at the right times of season

1386
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 3: and the right times of day, no matter the weather

1387
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:31,480
Speaker 3: conditions you're you're going to have higher percentage of getting opportunities.

1388
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:34,480
Speaker 3: I think that has a lot to do with mental toughness.

1389
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,519
Speaker 3: Getting up in the mornings is mental toughness. Getting up,

1390
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 3: you know, three hours before daylight to go hunting and

1391
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 3: be in your three an hour and a half or

1392
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 3: daylight every day, even though you know one out of

1393
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:47,720
Speaker 3: twenty hunts is the only time it's going to work

1394
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 3: for you on average. That's mental toughness. Staying in your tree.

1395
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:57,679
Speaker 3: If you're at you know you're in a betting area.

1396
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 3: If you're in an all day sit in a betting area,

1397
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:00,600
Speaker 3: you got to be in tree an hour and a

1398
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 3: half before daylight settled in, and you don't want to

1399
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 3: leave the betting area until at least a half an

1400
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 3: hour after dark. Even though you can't shoot, you want

1401
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 3: to make sure if there was a mature buck in there,

1402
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 3: he's gotten up and moved out of the betting area,

1403
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 3: so that you're not spooking him with your climbing down

1404
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 3: the tree and your exit out of the betting area.

1405
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 3: You know, right at dark, you know when he probably

1406
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 3: hasn't exited the betting area yet. You know those are

1407
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 3: all or you know, if you're on public land and

1408
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:34,759
Speaker 3: you know and it gets heavily pressured public land. Mental

1409
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 3: toughness is knowing that if you find a bunch of

1410
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 3: sign Let's say you find this awesome location and it's

1411
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 3: got some seonone's of security cover, and there's three active

1412
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 3: scrapes here, and there's rubs on all the perimeter brush

1413
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 3: around the scrape area. But yet it's an easy to

1414
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 3: access location for anybody from the parking area or wherever

1415
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 3: the public land parking is on, and is you know,

1416
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 3: mental toughness is knowing that if there's a mature buck

1417
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 3: using that scrape area, it's probably at night you know,

1418
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:14,240
Speaker 3: all the sign in the world is worthless if it's

1419
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 3: not made or visited during daylight hours. So knowing there's

1420
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 3: three other guys bee hunting this section of public land,

1421
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 3: you know, not every day, but on and off the

1422
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 3: and of course of the season, that's just ball hunters.

1423
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:29,120
Speaker 3: You know, they're going to find that and they're going

1424
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 3: to ruin it. They're going to ruin that location for

1425
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 3: daytime hunting. So, you know, mental toughness is knowing that

1426
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 3: when you're hunting public land in a heavily pressured area,

1427
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:41,599
Speaker 3: you've got to go places other people aren't willing to go.

1428
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 3: You've got to don waiters or hit boots, or use

1429
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 3: a canoe or a bolt across the lake or whatever

1430
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:49,759
Speaker 3: the case may be, because that's where the buck. Mature

1431
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 3: bucks are pushed by all the other hunters because they're

1432
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 3: typically too lazy and they're not willing to do the

1433
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 3: work to get back to those places. So the mental

1434
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 3: toughness is knowing you have to do that if you

1435
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 3: want to have any semblance of being consistently successful in

1436
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 3: a pressured area. Yeah, and and most of the time

1437
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,240
Speaker 3: you do these things and it doesn't you don't make

1438
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 3: it kill, But you have to do them all, and

1439
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 3: you have to do them consistently for the few opportunities

1440
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 3: you're going to get in a heavily pressured area your body.

1441
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're feeling exhausted and frustrated or stumped or

1442
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 2: pissed off at how the hunt's going, or anything like that,

1443
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 2: when that's happening season could be either or could be

1444
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 2: any Could it be any one of those things. When

1445
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 2: you're feeling that, how do you activate mental toughness? Like

1446
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 2: how in that situation? How do you turn it on?

1447
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 2: Or what do you do when you're feeling exhausted, frustrated, stumped, struggling?

1448
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 2: How do you respond?

1449
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 3: I usually don't think about that because it's it's in planet,

1450
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 3: It's ingrained in my DNA. Now, as far as the

1451
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:04,799
Speaker 3: way I hunt, I don't allow myself during a physical

1452
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 3: hunt to get mentally disabled where man, this isn't going

1453
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 3: to work, or I'm hunting in the wrong spot, or

1454
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:17,680
Speaker 3: I didn't do enough work here. Once you're committed to

1455
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 3: what you're doing, you just do it. I don't know

1456
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 3: if that's a good answer for that.

1457
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 2: No, I actually think that's I think that's insightful.

1458
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I never think negative things when I'm deer hunting.

1459
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 3: You know, I may I may sit there and say, God,

1460
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 3: I wish i'd have been over there for this. This

1461
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 3: may suck because this or that, but I still commit

1462
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:48,720
Speaker 3: to it. So I don't let it mentally drain me.

1463
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 3: I just commit to it and I say, well, I'll

1464
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 3: do that on another day.

1465
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 2: No, maybe thirty years ago, though forty years ago might

1466
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 2: have been a different story. Would you say that you

1467
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:00,080
Speaker 2: are where you are now because of the experience of

1468
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 2: going through this and pushing through those roadblocks. Oh yeah,

1469
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 2: that's why you're there.

1470
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely years ago in the seventies and eighties, Oh,

1471
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 3: I would get very tense and pissed off, and you know,

1472
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 3: being at a location and I didn't think it was

1473
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 3: going to work out. But once I commit, now I

1474
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 3: just I just hunted because anything's possible. I mean, I

1475
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:24,799
Speaker 3: wouldn't have a location there if I didn't. I wouldn't

1476
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,560
Speaker 3: have prepped that location if I didn't think it was

1477
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 3: going to be worth hunting. Now, back in the old days,

1478
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:34,759
Speaker 3: I would, you know, in the late seventies and eighties,

1479
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 3: when I was postseason scouting, i'd prep locations at let's

1480
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 3: say an oak tree or at a lost apple tree

1481
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 3: in September, and then I wouldn't I wouldn't do a

1482
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 3: speed tour because doing a speed tour back then, because

1483
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 3: I wasn't using sut lock, it was an intrusion into

1484
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 3: that spot prior to season. So I wouldn't do a

1485
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 3: speed tour to see if the oak had acorns, or

1486
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 3: the apple tree we're dropping apples, or what's see into

1487
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 3: what's seeing what kind of buck sign is around those

1488
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 3: trees just prior to season. So I wouldn't take those

1489
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:12,959
Speaker 3: pre season speed tours. And then I'd go in and hunt,

1490
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 3: but go into a hunt, maybe a white oak tree,

1491
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 3: and I get to the tree for an evening hunt

1492
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 3: and it's doesn't have any acorns that year, so it's

1493
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 3: totally worthless. So I've just blown a complete hunt. So

1494
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 3: but nowadays, because I mentally prepare for all that, I

1495
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:32,560
Speaker 3: do my pre season speed tours in total clad in

1496
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,760
Speaker 3: selt lock where I'm not leaving any odor, and I'm

1497
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 3: checking to see all my early season locations and which

1498
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 3: olks have acorns, which ones don't, you know, and I

1499
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 3: whatever locations are not producing mass or fruit they're discarded

1500
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 3: for that year, you know, and those they're still good locations,

1501
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,679
Speaker 3: but they'll be for another year. So you know, back

1502
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:56,759
Speaker 3: in those days, I go in and be frustrated because

1503
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 3: now I'm totally wasted in evening hunt because I'm hunting

1504
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 3: in a with no egghorns and there's no sign here.

1505
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:05,480
Speaker 2: If that makes sense, it does, and that is frustrating.

1506
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 3: That very fest that doesn't happen anymore. That never happens

1507
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 3: nowadays because I'm mentally prepared with my speed tours on

1508
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 3: what does not have food.

1509
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 2: The lessons learned over many years of trying this stuff

1510
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 2: and learning right, Yes, all right, John, If we had

1511
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 2: one of your best hunting buddies, or your son Joe,

1512
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,599
Speaker 2: or anyone who knows you well, who is hunted with

1513
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 2: you and has spent time behind the scenes seeing how

1514
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 2: you actually do what you do. If one of these

1515
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,920
Speaker 2: people was on the line with us today and I

1516
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 2: asked them to point a finger at your single greatest

1517
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:49,759
Speaker 2: strength as a deer hunter, do you think they would yours?

1518
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 2: So if if your best hunting buddy was asked, what's

1519
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 2: John Eberheart's greatest strength as a deer hunter, what do

1520
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 2: you think they would say work.

1521
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 3: Ethic and mental toughness. It'd be too it'd be too

1522
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:05,760
Speaker 3: cold work ethic. I've scouted locations and prep locations for

1523
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:08,799
Speaker 3: other hunters that are pretty high profile guys in Michigan,

1524
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 3: and they were blown away at how hard I work

1525
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 3: in prep locations. They because they said, I can't do that.

1526
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 3: I just don't have the I just can't do what

1527
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 3: you do in trees and and they don't have the

1528
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:27,759
Speaker 3: mental toughness. I'm sure it would be my mental toughness

1529
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 3: and my work ethic, which I think you'd get that

1530
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:34,360
Speaker 3: same answer from almost any really successful ball Yeah.

1531
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:38,560
Speaker 2: What would they say if I were to ask them,

1532
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:42,719
Speaker 2: is your greatest area of weakness or your greatest area

1533
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 2: with room to improve as a deer hunter?

1534
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 3: They would say I'm a Nazi because my kids call

1535
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 3: me that I'm a deer hunting Nazi because when they

1536
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:57,080
Speaker 3: hunt with me, because we don't hunt together in Michigan.

1537
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 3: We all want our own spots in Michigan. But when

1538
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 3: we go out of state hunting, and they they don't

1539
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 3: like me when I'm out of state because everything is

1540
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 3: to the minute. You know, we're leaving here five minutes

1541
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 3: to five and if you're not ready, I'm leaving without you,

1542
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 3: you know. So they call me the deer hunting Nash,

1543
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 3: So I guess my discipline would be what they would say.

1544
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 2: But it also might be a big part of your

1545
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 2: strength too, right, it probably is.

1546
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and now they're like that. That's what they

1547
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 3: used to say several years ago. And now I'll put

1548
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:37,519
Speaker 3: my son John, not Joe. But I'd put my son

1549
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 3: John up against an hunter in the country, and Chris

1550
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 3: I would have in his day as well. Joe Joe

1551
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:47,679
Speaker 3: not definitely, not Joe, but John definitely.

1552
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,599
Speaker 2: Would we better make sure Joe doesn't hear this one John,

1553
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:51,719
Speaker 2: I think.

1554
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 3: He would agree with me. I think he would agree

1555
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 3: with me.

1556
01:26:56,320 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 7: All right, self awareness, that's good, all.

1557
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 2: Right, So maybe you might have just answered my next

1558
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:17,600
Speaker 2: question here. But what is the most common trait or

1559
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 2: mindset or habit that you see in all the best

1560
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 2: deer hunters? You know? So, if you had to point

1561
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 2: to that one most common trait that all the best

1562
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:27,680
Speaker 2: deer hunters have, is it one of those things you

1563
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:31,679
Speaker 2: just described or is it something different, I'd say work ethic, Yeah.

1564
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 3: The amount of work you only get out of hunting

1565
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 3: what you put into it. And if you want to

1566
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 3: hunt at a serious level and you're hunting heavily pressured

1567
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 3: property against a lot of competition, it requires a lot

1568
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:44,400
Speaker 3: of work because you have to do things different than

1569
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 3: everybody else. You have to be more more assertive, you

1570
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 3: have to do things other hunters are just not willing

1571
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 3: to do so, and that saw it comes down to

1572
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:51,759
Speaker 3: work efforts.

1573
01:27:54,600 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 2: What is a commonly held piece of hunting dogma or

1574
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,720
Speaker 2: something that most folks believe about hunting or that a

1575
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 2: lot of people do as hunters that is actually false

1576
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:09,560
Speaker 2: or that you think is false. So kind of the

1577
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:11,439
Speaker 2: flip side of what I just asked you. So, if

1578
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 2: that's the thing that everyone who's really good always does,

1579
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,720
Speaker 2: what's something that a lot of people do that you

1580
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,640
Speaker 2: think is actually a mistake or a false.

1581
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 3: Belief they do well, A lot of hunters don't pay

1582
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:32,719
Speaker 3: attention to control. But that's that's another topic. Ah. Buck

1583
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:35,479
Speaker 3: betting areas. I think buck betting areas is a big

1584
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:38,080
Speaker 3: misconception for the most part. You know, there's so many

1585
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,800
Speaker 3: people that talk about, well, buck's only betting, you know,

1586
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:45,000
Speaker 3: only bucks betting, betting betting areas, buck betting areas, and

1587
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:47,679
Speaker 3: you know, if you have a small betting area, let's

1588
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:51,919
Speaker 3: say it's cup lakers, you know, and there's a dominant

1589
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 3: or sure buck betting in it during the rush phases,

1590
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 3: obviously those don't want to be in there with their

1591
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,400
Speaker 3: fonts because they're going to get blested and bugged all

1592
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 3: the time. But I'll hunted in hundreds of betting areas

1593
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:08,240
Speaker 3: over my career, and I have seen those come in

1594
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 3: in the mornings and bed and they have bucks come

1595
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 3: in and bed, you know, fifty yards from them. And

1596
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 3: in the evenings, I've had bucks get up and move

1597
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:17,960
Speaker 3: and then does get up and move in the same

1598
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:21,680
Speaker 3: betting areas going buy me. So you know people that

1599
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 3: say only bucks betting bed and betting areas and those

1600
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:30,160
Speaker 3: don't that is totally totally yes, I've got hundreds of

1601
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:34,440
Speaker 3: I would maybe not hundreds, but fifty to one hundred

1602
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 3: occasions where I've hunted in betting areas and seeing those

1603
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 3: in bucks in the same betting areas betting down, not

1604
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 3: bucks in there pursuing and you know, searching for those,

1605
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 3: but actually betting down. And obviously the bigger the betting area,

1606
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 3: the more you know, it's just like a cornfield's a

1607
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 3: betting area, and good grief, I've seen multiple bucks and

1608
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 3: betting in cornfields and dose in cornfields on many, many occasions.

1609
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, in just you.

1610
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 3: Know, just marsh grass, swamps and stuff like that. Yeah,

1611
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 3: if betting area is a decent size, there's going to

1612
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 3: be bucks and those betting in it. And I'm not

1613
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 3: a big person that believes in hunting specific buck peds

1614
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 3: because when you're hunting in a heavily pressured area like

1615
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:25,200
Speaker 3: Michigan is public land, free permission properties, there's probably on average,

1616
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 3: i would say one three and a half year old

1617
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 3: or older buck to every forty other deer. I'd say

1618
01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:36,000
Speaker 3: that's the ratio on as to doze fauns and the

1619
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 3: sport that bucks. You know, one in two year old

1620
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 3: sport bucks. So when you're hunting a specific buck bed,

1621
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:46,679
Speaker 3: first off, how are you going to find a specific

1622
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 3: but bed? Okay? And but if you did, let's say

1623
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 3: that you did find a specific buckbed and I have

1624
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:55,960
Speaker 3: found them before, but there it's not something I would

1625
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 3: key on on a regular basis looking for buck peds.

1626
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:05,599
Speaker 3: If you typically during season a mature buck, they're pressured,

1627
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:09,320
Speaker 3: they're going to move deeper into the interior, of the

1628
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:11,720
Speaker 3: betting area to bed they want to get deeper in.

1629
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:14,880
Speaker 3: Typically your dose fonds more than the bucks they're going

1630
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 3: to be betting more out on the peripheral edges because

1631
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 3: they're not pressured the same, their security precautions are not

1632
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:24,360
Speaker 3: quite the same as a mature buck that probably has

1633
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:28,919
Speaker 3: been shot at or wounded. So when you are hunting,

1634
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 3: let's say you were hunting a specific buckbed, Obviously, when

1635
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 3: you went in to hunt that buckbed, you know you're

1636
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 3: hunting it where you're going to be upwind of that buckbed.

1637
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 3: But when you're entering into that betting area to get

1638
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:47,679
Speaker 3: near that buckbed, because there's forty to one other deer,

1639
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:53,599
Speaker 3: you're highly more than likely to spook peripheral, doze bedded

1640
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 3: or subordinate bucks before you get close enough to that

1641
01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:00,559
Speaker 3: buck sixty to one hundred yards from that buckbed. And

1642
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 3: when you spook these other peripheral deer, they're going to

1643
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 3: run in the direction you're coming in from, So they're

1644
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:09,880
Speaker 3: going to run towards the supposed buck that's betted there.

1645
01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:15,000
Speaker 3: So obviously, if that buck here's deer running past him,

1646
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 3: if he stays betted and he does get up to

1647
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 3: move before dark, he's not going to move in the

1648
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 3: direction you're spooped from.

1649
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, right.

1650
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:27,439
Speaker 3: And then second scenario would be, let's say you did

1651
01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:30,040
Speaker 3: go in and set up and you were fifty to

1652
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 3: one hundred yards from a buck's bed, it's your buck's bed.

1653
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 3: A buck is typically the last buck in the evening

1654
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 3: to get up and move, So you're going to have

1655
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 3: all these other forty ratio forty to one ratio deer

1656
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 3: in that's betting area get up and move in the

1657
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,600
Speaker 3: direction that you're expecting that buck to move when he

1658
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 3: gets up to move to move. So if all these

1659
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 3: other deer are moving in the same direction that that

1660
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:58,760
Speaker 3: buck is, that means they're going to be moving by you.

1661
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 3: And if you don't have a control regiment that works,

1662
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:03,800
Speaker 3: once they're on the down wind side, they're going to

1663
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 3: blow or spook, and obviously then that buck's not going

1664
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:09,960
Speaker 3: to get up later and move in that same direction either.

1665
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:14,559
Speaker 3: So that whole buck betting thing, it sounds cool and

1666
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 3: it gets a lot of it gets a lot of press,

1667
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,360
Speaker 3: but you've got to be hunting in some semblance of

1668
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 3: a managed area where you've got quite a few mature

1669
01:33:23,560 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 3: bucks in it for that to even remotely work in

1670
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 3: a pressured area where you've got, you know, such a

1671
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 3: high ratio of other deer to the few mature bucks

1672
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:37,240
Speaker 3: that exist. The odds of hunting a buck betting area successfully,

1673
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 3: a buck bed successfully is very very low, extremely well.

1674
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:43,479
Speaker 3: And everything I do is based on percentages. What are

1675
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:46,120
Speaker 3: my best percentage ods? And that's right at the bottom

1676
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 3: of the percentage jobs.

1677
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, much, Yes, it does. And it's not an easy

1678
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 2: thing to pull off, that's for sure, and much easier

1679
01:33:54,439 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 2: said than done. Okay, last question, John, You've made it through, uh,

1680
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:04,719
Speaker 2: through this series of questions. Yeah, last question for this one.

1681
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 3: Okay.

1682
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 2: If you were forced to distill your approach to deer

1683
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:16,000
Speaker 2: hunting success into one single idea, or if you had

1684
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 2: one message that you wanted to leave the deer hunting

1685
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:21,679
Speaker 2: public with, and you had to put that single idea

1686
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:25,000
Speaker 2: on a billboard on the side of the highway that

1687
01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:27,240
Speaker 2: every deer hunter would see as they drive to work

1688
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:30,400
Speaker 2: in the morning. What would that one message be, that

1689
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:34,559
Speaker 2: one phrase, one liner, one idea that you would put

1690
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,920
Speaker 2: on that billboard that everyone could see.

1691
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 3: What would you choose the one term?

1692
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:43,479
Speaker 2: It could be a term, a phrase, a sentence of

1693
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:46,800
Speaker 2: you know something that either would be like your most

1694
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:50,719
Speaker 2: important advice or that important reminder, or the distillation of

1695
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:53,639
Speaker 2: of what you do, or if you had to leave

1696
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 2: folks with one parting.

1697
01:34:55,960 --> 01:35:00,479
Speaker 3: Thought, well, I could be you know, un art would

1698
01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:02,920
Speaker 3: be the first the first two words I could think of,

1699
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:06,920
Speaker 3: because a lot of people hunt a lot, but they

1700
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:10,400
Speaker 3: don't hunt smart. You know, when you learn how to

1701
01:35:10,479 --> 01:35:16,840
Speaker 3: hunt smart, you typically start hunting less. But the times

1702
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 3: you do hunt, you're hunting smart and you're capitalizing. You're

1703
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 3: you've got a higher percentage rate of success because you

1704
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:31,160
Speaker 3: are hunting smart and you're not ruining your locations before

1705
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 3: they're ready. You know, every location to me has a

1706
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:38,559
Speaker 3: ready time, you know, like mass trees, fruit trees, you

1707
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:41,400
Speaker 3: know their early season time. Rock based locations, they're a

1708
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 3: rock based time. You don't go anywhere near them until

1709
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 3: that time of season because you're molesting. You're altering the

1710
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 3: dough activity at them, and all bucket activity during the

1711
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:52,839
Speaker 3: ruck phases revolves around door activity. So if you're altering

1712
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:57,480
Speaker 3: door activity to a rough phase location prior to the rut, obviously,

1713
01:35:57,560 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 3: if those dose quit coming in there during day light hours,

1714
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 3: the buck when you start pursuing does he ain't gonna

1715
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:05,719
Speaker 3: come in there in the daylight either, So hunting smart

1716
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 3: would be the simplest two words. But I mean just

1717
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 3: saying hunting smart, there's a lot of different directions you

1718
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:17,479
Speaker 3: could take those two words. I mean, what does that mean.

1719
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 2: It's a good thing to keep in mind.

1720
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:21,639
Speaker 3: This is a whole lot of area.

1721
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good billboard. I'll take that

1722
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 2: reminder every day. John, You've got an exciting new project

1723
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 2: coming out into the world here pretty soon before we

1724
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:36,600
Speaker 2: wrap this up, can you can you fill us in

1725
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:39,719
Speaker 2: on what we can expect here in the coming months? ISHU.

1726
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:45,519
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm hoping in August. Launch on August. Ready, I

1727
01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:50,000
Speaker 3: wrote a book in conjunction with Greg Godfrey, and I

1728
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 3: wrote the majority of it, and it was so long.

1729
01:36:55,240 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 3: I've been working on this since January of twenty twenty three,

1730
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 3: so I've got probably three to four thousand hours in it.

1731
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:05,840
Speaker 3: And it's a book. It's a new book. And when

1732
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,680
Speaker 3: I send it to the book designer, he laughed and

1733
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:11,639
Speaker 3: he said, John, if I put this on a six

1734
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 3: by nine book, which is what your other three books

1735
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 3: are all six by nine, And if I put it

1736
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:18,040
Speaker 3: in an eleven fonts, which is kind of a small

1737
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:20,440
Speaker 3: font He said. It's going to take nine hundred.

1738
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:22,840
Speaker 4: Pages, so.

1739
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 2: That is amazing.

1740
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:30,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's broken down into three volumes. So the

1741
01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:32,240
Speaker 3: name of the book is going to be Ultimate Guide

1742
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:37,360
Speaker 3: to DIY Bucks, which DIY means do it Yourself. It's

1743
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 3: gonna have twenty seven chapters. It's gonna have. It's gonna

1744
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:46,599
Speaker 3: cover travel, hunting, health and conditioning, pre rud, peak rud,

1745
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:52,360
Speaker 3: post rud, late season, early season, staging areas, chapter on

1746
01:37:52,439 --> 01:37:57,120
Speaker 3: hunting standing corn, the reality is of hunting pressure. It's

1747
01:37:57,160 --> 01:38:01,960
Speaker 3: going to cover train features. You know, he'll country, egg slash,

1748
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:07,960
Speaker 3: rural swamp areas, hunting in pine plantations down south because

1749
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:12,920
Speaker 3: Greg Wi Greg's from Georgia, Florida and Georgia. It's gonna

1750
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:16,679
Speaker 3: cover pretty much every aspect, thermals, how to hunt, swirling winds,

1751
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:19,880
Speaker 3: thermals in the evenings going down, thermals in the mornings

1752
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:25,439
Speaker 3: going up. It's going to cover side control in detail

1753
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 3: like nobody's ever seen it before. It's gonna talk about,

1754
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 3: you know, ticks and mosquitoes. Activated carbon actually absorbs all

1755
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:38,519
Speaker 3: your you know, lactic acid odor and your ammonia odor.

1756
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 3: You dispel and your carbon dioxide so you don't have

1757
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:45,160
Speaker 3: issues with ticks and mosquitos. It's gonna cover everything there

1758
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:47,439
Speaker 3: is to do with bull hunting. It's gonna have a

1759
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:51,559
Speaker 3: chapter on saddle hunting and everything you need to know

1760
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 3: about saddle hunting. But it's not a book for just

1761
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:57,959
Speaker 3: saddle hunters, you know. It's gonna be for any anybody

1762
01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 3: that hunts white tails in America. And it's going to

1763
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:05,280
Speaker 3: be three volumes, and I'm going to actually do an audio,

1764
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:07,320
Speaker 3: so it's going to be in paper, it's going to

1765
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:09,320
Speaker 3: be in an ebook, and it's also going to be

1766
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:13,360
Speaker 3: an audio. The audiobook will come out later. I expect

1767
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:16,559
Speaker 3: the ebook in the paper books to be available sometime

1768
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 3: in August. That's our plan. And Tethered is going to

1769
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:24,880
Speaker 3: be the fulfillment center, so all orders will end up

1770
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:30,000
Speaker 3: going through them. And for your subscribers, Mark, they might

1771
01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 3: be happy to know you have participated in this book.

1772
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:34,920
Speaker 2: Sure.

1773
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:40,120
Speaker 3: Mark has I think two short kill stories. There's seventy

1774
01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 3: four kill stories in this book. They're all three to

1775
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:47,320
Speaker 3: five paragraphs along, so they're very abbreviated, and all the

1776
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:51,880
Speaker 3: kill stories fit in whatever chapter that they can lend

1777
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:55,559
Speaker 3: credibility to that chapter which you just read, So there

1778
01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 3: will be photos of the bucks as well as a

1779
01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:02,400
Speaker 3: three to five paragraph story. Andy May has several kill stories.

1780
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:07,599
Speaker 3: Garrett Praul from DIY, Sportsman, Greg Godfrey and Ernie Power,

1781
01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 3: the two owners of Feathered, also have kill stories. And

1782
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:13,679
Speaker 3: I have about fifty five kill stories in it, I think.

1783
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:17,559
Speaker 3: So it's going to have a lot of photos or

1784
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 3: they are going to have a lot of photos. We're

1785
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:23,679
Speaker 3: probably going to be in the twenty seven to thirty

1786
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:29,479
Speaker 3: dollars price range per volume. And and I'm really excited

1787
01:40:29,479 --> 01:40:32,559
Speaker 3: about it because I think this is going to be

1788
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:36,559
Speaker 3: a basically this is going to cover everything there's about.

1789
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:41,679
Speaker 2: Going So how how does how does this differ from

1790
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,120
Speaker 2: the previous books you've written on this topic? So if I,

1791
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:46,760
Speaker 2: like me, I own all of your books, I've read

1792
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 2: all of your books multiple times in what what should

1793
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:53,320
Speaker 2: I expect this different or above and beyond from those

1794
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:54,440
Speaker 2: previous editions.

1795
01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:56,479
Speaker 3: It's going to have more detail to give you an

1796
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:59,439
Speaker 3: idea all of those other three books I've wrote, we're

1797
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 3: in the two hundred from twenty to two hundred and

1798
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 3: fifty page are you Each one of these volumes is

1799
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:06,640
Speaker 3: going to be over three it's going to be three

1800
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:09,400
Speaker 3: hundred fifty page. Yeah, so you're going to have basically

1801
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 3: one thousand pages versus any of those other books which

1802
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 3: were two hundred twenty to two hundred and fifty, much

1803
01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:18,080
Speaker 3: more detail. It's going to cover more ground, it's going

1804
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:21,000
Speaker 3: to cover more different types of train features. It's going

1805
01:41:21,120 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 3: to have more information than the other ones had. They're

1806
01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 3: definitely different than the other ones, far far more detail oriented.

1807
01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:35,040
Speaker 2: And what has been about ten years since your last book? So,

1808
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:37,599
Speaker 2: so ten years of evolution for you as one hundred.

1809
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:39,960
Speaker 3: Two brok fourteen years, fourteen.

1810
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:43,599
Speaker 2: Years okay, yeah, so lots of lots of new things there,

1811
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 2: I'm sure too.

1812
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:50,280
Speaker 3: I'm very very excited about it me too. I've worked

1813
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:52,880
Speaker 3: on this for so many months. I didn't even put

1814
01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:54,639
Speaker 3: my boat. I live on a lake and I didn't

1815
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:56,960
Speaker 3: even put my boats in the water because I didn't

1816
01:41:56,960 --> 01:42:01,599
Speaker 3: want them distracting me from writing. That's and I love.

1817
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:04,680
Speaker 2: The fish, so dedication.

1818
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 3: Then it's I'll be glad when this is done and

1819
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:10,200
Speaker 3: it's put to bed, and it's you just order it

1820
01:42:10,280 --> 01:42:11,080
Speaker 3: and it's done.

1821
01:42:11,080 --> 01:42:14,920
Speaker 2: So well, keep us, keep us posted. I'll be very

1822
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,960
Speaker 2: excited when it comes out in August, We'll definitely tell everyone.

1823
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:21,880
Speaker 2: I'm wired to hunt all about it. Anything else you

1824
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 2: want folks to know about anywhere that folks, I guess

1825
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:27,679
Speaker 2: remind us of where people can go to connect with you,

1826
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 2: to see your content, to buy previous books. What's the

1827
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:31,599
Speaker 2: best place to do that online?

1828
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:38,080
Speaker 3: Well, my website. You can buy my books on my website.

1829
01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 3: But I'll be honest with you that there's no reason

1830
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:43,439
Speaker 3: to buy any of my previous books if you're going

1831
01:42:43,479 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 3: to buy this one. I mean, I think you'd be

1832
01:42:46,920 --> 01:42:49,320
Speaker 3: unless you wanted something for this year. If these aren't

1833
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:51,679
Speaker 3: available in August and you wanted some for this year,

1834
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:54,560
Speaker 3: you may want to. You know, I think eber Art Outdoors,

1835
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 3: not eber Art Outdoors, but Booning White Tails of Eberway

1836
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:01,080
Speaker 3: would be the most current and updated book that's available

1837
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:05,360
Speaker 3: at the moment. But you're not going to need that

1838
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:08,760
Speaker 3: if you end up getting these other three. The downside

1839
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:11,200
Speaker 3: is these other three books, you know, you have to

1840
01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:13,799
Speaker 3: kind of have all books. They have it all fit together.

1841
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:16,680
Speaker 3: I did not want to do three volumes. It just

1842
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 3: happened that they were going to be too long to

1843
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 3: put into a single book.

1844
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 2: And can you imagine getting a book like six inches tall, though.

1845
01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:27,680
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want it because they wouldn't want to read it.

1846
01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:31,320
Speaker 3: Kind of cool. On the on the spine of the

1847
01:43:31,439 --> 01:43:34,879
Speaker 3: three books, I'm going to have a really cool photo

1848
01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:38,160
Speaker 3: where when three books are stacked next to each other

1849
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:42,880
Speaker 3: on the shelf, it will form a photo of big

1850
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:45,280
Speaker 3: a big book. But if you just had one or two,

1851
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:48,719
Speaker 3: you're missing something very cool. It doesn't form the actual

1852
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:49,759
Speaker 3: picture picture.

1853
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:56,559
Speaker 2: Well, I'll be impatiently awaiting the uh this this three

1854
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:59,720
Speaker 2: volume set. Congratulations on getting that done. That is no

1855
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:02,639
Speaker 2: small achievement. I'm sure that was a tremendous amount of work.

1856
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:05,760
Speaker 2: So so thank you for dedicating yourself to that. I

1857
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 2: know there's gonna be a lot of us that will

1858
01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:09,960
Speaker 2: benefit from it. And I've said it every time we've talked,

1859
01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 2: but I'll just say it again. Thank you for the

1860
01:44:12,479 --> 01:44:15,320
Speaker 2: impact you made on me. John uh Oh, you welcome.

1861
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:17,080
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know if i'd be here today

1862
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:19,719
Speaker 2: if it weren't for those books I've read of yours

1863
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 2: and subsequent lessons I've learned from you. So so thank

1864
01:44:23,080 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 2: you for that. Thank you for your time today.

1865
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,920
Speaker 3: More importantly, Mark, thank you, and may you know you

1866
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:33,479
Speaker 3: may thank me for this as well, but we'd both

1867
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:36,960
Speaker 3: like to educate hunters. You know. To me, I love

1868
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:40,679
Speaker 3: educating hunters to make them better hunters put so much

1869
01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:43,760
Speaker 3: time and effort into hunting and spending so much money

1870
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:48,240
Speaker 3: on it. And to me getting a kill story from

1871
01:44:48,280 --> 01:44:52,120
Speaker 3: somebody emailing me a kill story, it's so gratifying. Well,

1872
01:44:52,160 --> 01:44:55,240
Speaker 3: I did this and it worked, you know. Yeah, I

1873
01:44:55,320 --> 01:44:57,720
Speaker 3: just think it's awesome. Man. You you're doing the same thing.

1874
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:02,599
Speaker 3: You're trying to educate hunters to be better, and what's

1875
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:04,920
Speaker 3: your successful ball honor? Because you put so much time

1876
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:08,000
Speaker 3: into it, it just gives your self gratification. I mean,

1877
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:11,600
Speaker 3: it's just awesome. So thank you as well for your format.

1878
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:14,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's been a lot of fun. This has been

1879
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:17,719
Speaker 2: a lot of fun. I'm excited to see the rest

1880
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:19,759
Speaker 2: of this series and hear the rest of folks. And

1881
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:22,160
Speaker 2: as you did last time, you kicked it off really

1882
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:24,439
Speaker 2: really well. John, So thank you, thank.

1883
01:45:24,280 --> 01:45:27,240
Speaker 3: You very much. Those were definitely unique questions. Thank you,

1884
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:28,600
Speaker 3: Thank you for the opportunity.

1885
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:32,680
Speaker 2: All right, and that is a wrap. Thank you for

1886
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:35,120
Speaker 2: joining us. Hope you enjoyed that one as much as

1887
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:38,640
Speaker 2: I did. We've got some great guests coming up. I

1888
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:41,680
Speaker 2: will tease a couple here. Some of our future episodes

1889
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 2: in the Mindsets of white Tail Masters series will include

1890
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:50,680
Speaker 2: episodes with Ben Rising, Andre Toquisto, I think we've got

1891
01:45:50,760 --> 01:45:54,960
Speaker 2: Dan Enfhalt coming up, and a number of others. I

1892
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 2: think you guys are really gonna enjoy these can't wait

1893
01:45:57,080 --> 01:46:01,080
Speaker 2: to share with you. One last reminder, go subscribe to

1894
01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:03,760
Speaker 2: the Meat Eater Clips YouTube channel so you can check

1895
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:07,400
Speaker 2: out our new white Tail Edu video series. And with that,

1896
01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:10,720
Speaker 2: I'm gonna let you go. I appreciate you, hope you're

1897
01:46:10,720 --> 01:46:14,839
Speaker 2: having an awesome summer, and until next time, stay Wired

1898
01:46:15,280 --> 01:46:15,759
Speaker 2: to Hunt.