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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. Back in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, a real life character straight out of Atlas

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Speaker 1: Shrugged passed away. You have doubtlessly heard of the Koch Brothers.

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Speaker 1: You have probably heard of David Koke, who was a philanthropist,

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Speaker 1: real life business tycoon and diplomatically put a political activist.

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Speaker 2: And do you guys.

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Speaker 1: Remember how it was similar to Luigi Mangione, The public

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Speaker 1: discourse on social media was incredibly different from the establishment

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Speaker 1: media's eulogies and the awards and analysis they heaped upon

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Speaker 1: this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, reminds me of the more recent one with Kissinger

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Speaker 2: a it keet Rip that guy. Isn't it funny how

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Speaker 2: somebody like this that is so influential on the planet

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Speaker 2: people just don't know much about him. But you know,

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Speaker 2: they can tell you much of the life story of

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Speaker 2: you know, their favorite pop singer or something. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I could do that with some of the Dave Matthews

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Speaker 2: Band members, But I couldn't have told you much about

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Speaker 2: this guy until we did this episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what are you saying? You don't know all the

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Speaker 1: backstory and bias of every member of the Dave Matthews Band.

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Speaker 1: Past and present.

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Speaker 2: Matt, Oh no, no, I'm saying I do. I didn't know,

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Speaker 2: mister Coke.

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Speaker 1: Okay, got it. However, you don't need to, mister Coke.

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Speaker 1: Is like understanding physics. You don't need to understand physics

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Speaker 1: to be affected by the principles of the reality in

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Speaker 1: which we live and in a very real way. David

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Speaker 1: Koch's legacy continues. He created or co created a political

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Speaker 1: engine that still wields enormous influence on the United States today,

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Speaker 1: up to and including recent elections. What do you say

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Speaker 1: we jump right into this classic episode, from UFOs to

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Speaker 1: psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events.

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Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. A production of iHeart Radios

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Nola isn't here today, but he'll be back shortly.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you. You are here and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in, fellow conspiracy realists. Today's episode is a

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Speaker 1: bit of a retrospective, but it involves a bit of

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Speaker 1: the future as well. And this episode may be divisive

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Speaker 1: to some of our listeners. We always hope our episodes

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Speaker 1: are divisive. That means we're doing something right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Ultimately, this episode is the It's about the line

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Speaker 2: between freedom and wealth. What that means is freedom, wealth

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Speaker 2: is wealth? Freedom? What are we all struggling to do

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Speaker 2: here with our jobs and trying to prosper? Like, what's

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Speaker 2: the end goal?

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Speaker 1: So as we as we explore today's strange tale, as

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Speaker 1: we dig through the rabbit hole, peel back layers of

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Speaker 1: the figurative onion, we'd like to hear from you, as

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Speaker 1: longtime listeners, know you do not have to wait till

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Speaker 1: the end of the episode to let us know your thoughts.

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Speaker 1: If the spirit so moves you, you can pause and

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Speaker 1: call us directly.

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Speaker 2: We are one eight three three STDWITK, So keep that

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Speaker 2: in mind.

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Speaker 1: And there may be some things that feel a little

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Speaker 1: bit high level because we are exploring the life and

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Speaker 1: times and the long shadow of a man named David

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Speaker 1: Coke koc H. Who is David Coke? Great question? Here

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Speaker 1: are the facts. David Hamilton Coke was born on May third,

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Speaker 1: in Wichita, Kansas, in nineteen forty. His dad, fred Coke

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Speaker 1: fred Sea Cooke, was a chemical engineer, and his paternal grandfather,

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Speaker 1: a fellow named Harry Coke, was a Dutch immigrant. He

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Speaker 1: was a newspaperman. He was one of the founding shareholders

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Speaker 1: of a railway interest. Now David Hamilton Coke was the

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Speaker 1: third of four sons. He had two older brothers, Charles

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Speaker 1: Coke and Frederick Cooke, and then he had a fourth brother.

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Speaker 1: This is an interesting story. He had a fourth brother

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Speaker 1: named Bill. Bill is technically the youngest of the four

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Speaker 1: Coke boys. He was born nineteen minutes after David. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they're twins.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And then we just kind of continue following

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Speaker 2: David's life as he attended Deerfield Academy. This is in Massachusetts.

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Speaker 2: It's a prep school. It's a very nice place, has

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Speaker 2: a very good reputation.

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Speaker 1: Right. Deerfield Academy is a gathering place for quite a

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Speaker 1: few influential people, or the children of influential people who

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Speaker 1: will go on to inherit their parents' position. People like

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Speaker 1: King Abdullah the second All Hussein of Jordan. Well Rockefellers

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Speaker 1: go there, and of course COOCHX go.

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Speaker 2: There, there you go. And another place that highly influential

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Speaker 2: people go is where David ended up. Next, he went

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Speaker 2: to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and there he earned

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Speaker 2: a bachelor's of Arts and Sciences. Then he went on

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Speaker 2: to earn a Masters of Science.

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Speaker 1: In chemical engineering. Both of those he was He's a

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Speaker 1: tall guy and was a tall guy, about six and

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Speaker 1: a half feetal and he was known for being pretty

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Speaker 1: good at basketball during his time. He averaged twenty one

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Speaker 1: points per game over the course of three years. I'm

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Speaker 1: throwing in this fact to humanize him a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So now with that, yeah, he likes basketball and he

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Speaker 1: was pretty good. Yeah, just him as a person. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about his career. Coke joined Coke Industries, the family business,

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Speaker 1: working for his older brother Charles. David started out as

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Speaker 1: a technical services manager and nine years later, nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: he becomes the president of the company's engineering division and

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Speaker 1: it's renamed Chemical Technology Group. All the while, ever since

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Speaker 1: the death of the patriarch, fred Seacoke, there's been growing

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Speaker 1: tension between the four brothers. This came to a head

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Speaker 1: in June of nineteen eighty three when Frederick and Bill,

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Speaker 1: the younger twin and the older brother when their shares

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Speaker 1: of the company were bought out for one point one

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Speaker 1: billion dollars. And this bitter feud has a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff going on, like they didn't speak for years after

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Speaker 1: the conclusion of this stuff. The family felt betrayed by Bill,

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Speaker 1: who essentially blew the whistle on some sketchy behavior by

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Speaker 1: Coke Industries and Native American land.

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Speaker 2: And Bill is the youngest of the two twins David.

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Speaker 1: And Bill nineteen minutes younger, and all three of them

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Speaker 1: attempted to blackmail their brother Frederick based on what they

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Speaker 1: suspected about his sexual orientation.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the money changed the family dynamics anyway, without

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Speaker 1: going too far into the Shakespearean tension between the siblings,

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Speaker 1: long story short, by twenty ten, David and Charles Coke

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Speaker 1: controlled the company. Each of them owned forty two percent

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Speaker 1: of Coke Industries.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's really high. That's a high number in something

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Speaker 2: as high stakes as Coke Industries. And then on June fifth,

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, We're jumping quite a bit ahead here, but

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Speaker 2: David Coke announced he was going to retire from that

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Speaker 2: from his position within the company, but he was He

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Speaker 2: would end up staying on a little bit as like

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Speaker 2: kind of a from twenty eighteen well into twenty nineteen

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Speaker 2: as kind of a ceremonial position within the company, but

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Speaker 2: he was officially stepping down due to health concerns because

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Speaker 2: he had cancer.

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Speaker 1: That's correct, Yes, David Coke was diagnosed with prostate cancer

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Speaker 1: way back in nineteen ninety two. Like anyone who is

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Speaker 1: diagnosed with something as terrible as prostate cancer, he definitely

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Speaker 1: has the motivation to pursue every possible avenue of treatment.

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Speaker 1: Unlike many people diagnosed with prostate cancer, he also has

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Speaker 1: the means to pursue these treatments. He goes through chemotherapy,

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Speaker 1: he goes through radiation treatments, he gets surgery. This all

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Speaker 1: fails to completely eliminate the cancer, and it keeps returning.

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Speaker 1: And so it comes to pass that, after a long

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Speaker 1: battle with prostate cancer, David Coke passes away in New

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Speaker 1: York on Southampton, New York, on August twenty third of

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. He's seventy nine years old, and according to

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Speaker 1: the official statements of his loved ones his relatives in

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Speaker 1: the press, there is no definitive cause of death that

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Speaker 1: was cited yet, but you know, most people are reasonably

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Speaker 1: assuming or speculating that this was somehow related to his

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Speaker 1: ongoing cancer battle. Sure, at this level of wealth, the

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Speaker 1: Coke estate, just David Coke's part of it can function

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Speaker 1: in many ways as though the person who helmed it

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Speaker 1: is still very very much alive. The institutions and systems

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Speaker 1: that David Coke helped create didn't pass away when he

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Speaker 1: passed away. But what sort of systems did he create?

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Speaker 1: How much money are we talking? Let's take a break

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Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and assuming that Coke

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Speaker 1: Industries doesn't buy us in the next few minutes, let's

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Speaker 1: continue to explore this story.

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Speaker 2: And we're back. And we are also now owned by

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Speaker 2: Coke Industries.

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Speaker 1: Who are also owned by Illumination Global Unlimited.

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Speaker 2: So we're straight. Everything's fine, We're.

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Speaker 1: Back in the family. But what is Coke Industries? This

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Speaker 1: is how we This is the best way for us

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Speaker 1: to answer the questions about wealth. Here's the gist. The

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Speaker 1: thing we call Coke Industries today began way back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty as the Wood River Oil and Refining Company.

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Speaker 1: This was co founded by Fred C. Coke in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven in honor of Fred Coke, it was renamed

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Speaker 1: Coke Industries. Since then, that's been the shorthand way to

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Speaker 1: refer to this enormous conglomerate. And when we say enormous conglomerate,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a disquieting number of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. According to the Securities and Exchange Commission, Coke

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Speaker 2: Industries is what you would call a private conglomerate. They've

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Speaker 2: got all kinds of different things, companies that they control,

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Speaker 2: and everything from petroleum and chemicals, the productions of that

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Speaker 2: and the distribution of those chemicals through pipelines. There's some

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Speaker 2: ranching going involved. There's some chemical chemical tech occurring here.

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Speaker 2: There's all kinds of commodity training, minerals, how do you

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Speaker 2: get them, where do you find them? What do you

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Speaker 2: do with those minerals? Capital markets and fibers are in

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Speaker 2: everything you guys, financial services, you got paper, the pulp

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Speaker 2: that you need to build the paper, as well as

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Speaker 2: business development, which is interesting in its own right because

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Speaker 2: that's how you get a lot of the other companies

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Speaker 2: to become or come to fruition right exactly.

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Speaker 1: Today, Coke Industries is the second largest private company in

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Speaker 1: the United States. What's number one, you may ask. It's

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Speaker 1: a company called Cargill, which we can save for a

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Speaker 1: different episode. Coke Industries has an annual revenue of one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten billion dollars and it has around one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thousand employees. So two things about those numbers.

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Speaker 1: That one ten billion dollars indicates a growth trend, because

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen it was one hundred billion, so they

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Speaker 1: went up by ten bill And those one hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty employees, those that number may not factor in contractors, freelancers,

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Speaker 1: so on. So depending on how we define employee, that

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Speaker 1: number could be a little bit higher. It's also active

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Speaker 1: in sixty countries, which means that it is probably selling

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Speaker 1: something to you. You have almost certainly bought or used

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Speaker 1: a product created by Coke Industries, because in short, they

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Speaker 1: sell a ton of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you've certainly encountered them. I remember ages ago when

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Speaker 2: we were doing this show, we did a check up

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Speaker 2: to see what Coke Industries owned, and we listened off

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Speaker 2: some things, including things like if you're just walking through

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Speaker 2: a grocery store, let's say, if you're in the United

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Speaker 2: States or maybe in another country, you may see things

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Speaker 2: like quilted, Northern, or soft and gentle or brawny, maybe

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Speaker 2: angel soft, mm sparkle to any of those catch your

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Speaker 2: ear because it's probably a paper product that you use

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Speaker 2: to clean something or wipe your hands up on. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of this. Mardi Gras, another one Dixie as

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Speaker 2: in cups from Dixie.

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Speaker 1: They also own Georgia Pacific, which is the largest manufacturer

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Speaker 1: of plywood and corrugated boxes and containers in the US.

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Speaker 1: They produce all sorts of textiles and plastics to the

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Speaker 1: world's largest producer of lycra. They produce stain Masters, solar

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Speaker 1: max all a polyshield, oxy Clear. They make gasoline, diesel,

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Speaker 1: jet fuel, asphalt, fracking chemicals, ethylene.

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Speaker 2: I'd just like to point out here that they own

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Speaker 2: a lot of the raw materials that end up becoming

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Speaker 2: a lot of the other products. That's kind of what

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Speaker 2: Coke Industries does here when you're talking about, you know,

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Speaker 2: getting crude oil to then process for a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of different kinds of textiles and plastics, right or you're

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Speaker 2: talking about Georgia Pacific getting all the wood that you

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Speaker 2: need to create all of the other paper products and

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Speaker 2: other things like that. It's it's smart business, I guess,

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Speaker 2: like essentially controlling controlling the processes which you need to

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Speaker 2: make an end thing, right, the products of production. Yeah, owning,

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Speaker 2: owning the means of production. They own the means of production. Yes,

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Speaker 2: got it. But yeah, you can really see it illustrated here.

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Speaker 1: And it's no secret that after a certain threshold of scale,

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Speaker 1: whether we're talking whether we're talking fame, infamy, or just finance,

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Speaker 1: right after this certain threshold, any entity becomes inherently controversial.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's true, right, It follows logically that coke

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Speaker 1: industries has had a troubled legal history congressional investigations, DOJ

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Speaker 1: consent decrease, civil lawsuits, felony convictions, and so on. One of

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Speaker 1: the biggest controversies that's getting a lot of attention now,

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Speaker 1: especially from politicians on the left side of US politics,

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Speaker 1: will be the active role that coke industries plays in

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Speaker 1: pollution and climate change denial.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Again, like you said, Matt, what's good for business versus

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Speaker 1: what's bad for business?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, And in the end, there are so many

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Speaker 2: profits to protect for the people that run this massive industry,

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Speaker 2: or it's not even industry. They conglomerate. There's so many

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Speaker 2: moving parts you have to or you're at least incentivized

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Speaker 2: to deregulate as much as you possibly can and do

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Speaker 2: what you have to do to make sure that those

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Speaker 2: profits go up by three percent each year. But they've had,

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Speaker 2: you know, as part of their legal troubles in the past.

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Speaker 2: If you go back to nineteen eighty eight, you get

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Speaker 2: a really interesting look into a specific thing that they

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Speaker 2: were accused of doing and then found out that they

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Speaker 2: were doing where they were apparently stealing oil from Native

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Speaker 2: American reservations within the United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, This comes from an excellent book called Cokeland

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Speaker 1: by an author named Christopher Leonard, in which he traces

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Speaker 1: the twist and turns of this nefarious tale. So, as

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Speaker 1: you said, this stuff hits the fan in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: eight in November, and it's the result of an investigation

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Speaker 1: that was launched in October of nineteen eighty seven by

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Speaker 1: the Senate Select Committee on Indian Affairs. They were inspired

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Speaker 1: by a series of articles in the paper of the

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Speaker 1: Arizona Republic that said, hey, big Oil is stealing oil

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Speaker 1: from Native Americans who own these various oil wells. Here's

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Speaker 1: how the scam worked. Companies would pick up crude oil

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Speaker 1: from the wells and they would take it to the

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Speaker 1: quote unquote marketplace. But when they did this, they falsified

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Speaker 1: their receipts, their invoices to make it look like they

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Speaker 1: had a picked up less oil than they actually did.

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Speaker 1: So they were getting a viig they were skimming off

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Speaker 1: the top or b that the oil was of a

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Speaker 1: lower quality than it actually was, therefore worth less on

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Speaker 1: the marketplace. Therefore we're paying less.

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Speaker 2: Well, look at that and throughout this whole controversy because

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Speaker 2: it was a controversy for the Cokes and for coke industries.

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Speaker 2: This is when David really becomes and the Coke brothers

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Speaker 2: I guess as a whole or as a duo. It

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Speaker 2: gets them enmeshed within the politics. The like forward facing politics.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is a big stage for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the company later admits in court that it collects

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Speaker 1: about ten million dollars worth of crude oil each year

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Speaker 1: without paying for it over the course of this scam.

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Speaker 1: And this is just one illustration of what big businesses do.

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Speaker 1: It's important to say that coke industry is by no

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Speaker 1: means unique in this sort of thing. And that's why

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Speaker 1: countries and state actors have legislative mechanisms in place that are,

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Speaker 1: in theory meant to prevent these kind of shenanigans. But

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Speaker 1: despite the ongoing controversies, this family business made David Coke

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Speaker 1: an even wealthier man. And we have some we have

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Speaker 1: some stats about his about his his position in financial society.

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Speaker 1: At the time of his passing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, according to Forbes, he was number eleven on the

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Speaker 2: list of wealthiest men on the planet. He had a

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Speaker 2: total asset amount of forty two point two billion dollars,

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Speaker 2: again according to Forbes, and he had an estimated net

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Speaker 2: worth of fifty point five billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: And let's pause here for a second, Matt, because that

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Speaker 1: is a huge number. We're throwing a lot of huge

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Speaker 1: numbers out here, and that makes it very easy number

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Speaker 1: to glide over without fully understanding or grocking it. There's

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Speaker 1: a guy named Sam Parr writing for a website called

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Speaker 1: The Hustle, and he did a great walkthrough. I've combined

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Speaker 1: a couple of different things here to make it to

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Speaker 1: help us imagine just one billion dollars in my head.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's start with a one hundred dollars bill.

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Speaker 1: Pretty cool, right, Imagine it's a crisp new one straight

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Speaker 1: from the Men's Love It. Now, stack one hundred of

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Speaker 1: those together. This makes us stack about an inch high.

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Speaker 1: That's ten thousand dollars. And when you look at it,

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Speaker 1: it's just a stack. It's not that impressive. If you

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Speaker 1: add enough stacks together, you'll get a million dollars. Also,

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Speaker 1: weirdly enough, not as impressive as it may seem in film,

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Speaker 1: because when you stack it that way, when you add

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Speaker 1: it up that way, it's not enough to fill up

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Speaker 1: an average briefcase. I mean like a carry on for

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Speaker 1: a plane. It's still a lot of money, and a

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Speaker 1: billion is much different. A billion gets us into the

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Speaker 1: the realm of imaginary scenarios.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So let's say you save one hundred dollars a day.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome, great job doing that. It will take you

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Speaker 1: ten million days round a little over twenty seven thousand

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Speaker 1: years to save up one billion dollars. Wow.

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Speaker 2: And well, also if you try and visualize I remember

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Speaker 2: seeing videos with this before where you try and visualize

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Speaker 2: what a billion dollars looks like. So if you were

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Speaker 2: going to do that, if you're going to look at it,

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Speaker 2: it would be a four square mile area, or what

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Speaker 2: would be the equivalent of two thousand, five hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty five acres of just money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah if you put if you took that billion and

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Speaker 1: made it one dollar bills, right, yeah, yeaheah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you would also have more money than several entire countries.

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Speaker 1: You would be you know, you would have more than

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Speaker 1: their GDP for instance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, and by let's talk about what you can

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Speaker 2: buy with a billion bucks.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, with just one billion dollars per the AJAC,

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Speaker 1: you can buy six point seven f thirty five a

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Speaker 1: Fighter Jets. Oh yeah, you can also if you bargain

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Getting into sports.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you can get an NFL team for a

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Speaker 2: billion bucks. Oh for sure, you can almost almost. By

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Speaker 2: let's say I don't know, a palace.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Buckingham Palace is just one point four billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: After all, these are all crazy things to buy, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's a billion dollars. David Coke as an individual,

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Speaker 1: as one guy, directly controlled enough wealth to do this

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Speaker 1: fifty times over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and remember that's assets and money, you know, cash, money, accounts,

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Speaker 2: all those things. It's all of it together. In property

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Speaker 2: in particular, it becomes very important.

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Speaker 1: So what to do with all this scratch, all this cheddar,

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Speaker 1: all these gains, this real superpower, this genuine superpower, this

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Speaker 1: very real version of time travel, which is a nice

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Speaker 1: easter egg there for some of our longtime listeners, well time.

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Speaker 1: David Cooke was a man of principle as he saw it,

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Speaker 1: and his most well known spending fits into two broad categories,

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Speaker 1: first philanthropy and second politics. In terms of philanthropy, we

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Speaker 1: see a I guess well and yeah, well intentioned but

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Speaker 1: imperfect person. He's been on the Chronicle of Philanthropy's list

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Speaker 1: of the world's top fifty philanthropists consistently since two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six. In a twenty thirteen interview with The Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal, he called himself a sugar daddy for charity,

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Speaker 1: his words, not ours. He said he had a moral

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Speaker 1: obligation to help. He said he preferred to donate his

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Speaker 1: money to outstand institutions rather than use it on buying

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Speaker 1: a bigger house or a one hundred and fifty million

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Speaker 1: dollar painting. That again, is a direct quote from him.

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Speaker 1: I get it, that feels like the right thing to do.

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Speaker 1: He conducted most of his visible philanthropy through his foundation

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Speaker 1: named the David H. Coke Charitable Foundation. They save the

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Speaker 1: money on creative names and pass those savings to you.

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Speaker 2: I guess you've probably heard that mentioned a couple of

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Speaker 2: times in passing from you. Know, this is brought to

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Speaker 2: you and thanks thanks to impart by that foundation.

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Speaker 1: And they're doing good work. They're giving, they're giving to

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Speaker 1: institutions and causes that are making pioneering breakthroughs, especially in

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Speaker 1: the medical space.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and sometimes it is difficult to square these things

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Speaker 2: when depending on what you think about David Coke or

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Speaker 2: the Koch Brothers, knowing that this is a real side

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Speaker 2: of him and his spending and his wealth and his

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Speaker 2: family's wealth, this charitable side, it is real, and it's

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Speaker 2: you can't deny it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have some I don't want to call him

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Speaker 1: hot takes, but I have some observations on that. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to him in a second. Right, It's you're right, Matt,

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Speaker 1: objectively not bad. So he gave over a billion dollars

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Speaker 1: to charity throughout his life, so over or right around

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Speaker 1: one fiftieth of his assets he donated to things like

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Speaker 1: the Lincoln Center of the American Museum of Natural History.

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Speaker 1: In terms of medical causes, he started the Coke Institute

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Speaker 1: for Integrative Cancer Research at MIT New York Presbyterian Hospital,

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Speaker 1: M D. Anderson Cancer Center, JOHNS. Hopkins, Stanford University Hospital,

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Speaker 1: Mount Sinai, the Hospital for Special Surgery. Good stuff, great stuff,

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Speaker 1: saved lives. Right inarguably, here's the thing though, here's the

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Speaker 1: thing that some of his critics will point out, and

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Speaker 1: that I have to admit, has some sand people who

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Speaker 1: people who argue that coke industry's business practices have raised

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Speaker 1: the rates of cancer in their communities, right, people who

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Speaker 1: have never smoked, never drank, gay lung cancer left and right.

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Speaker 1: They say, you know why is if this guy really

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Speaker 1: wants to fight cancer, why doesn't he change what his

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Speaker 1: company is doing? Why is he donating after the fact?

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: That's quite a good point.

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Speaker 1: Was I thought it was. I thought it was a

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Speaker 1: good point. Additionally, he cites a close call he had

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Speaker 1: an aircraft accident with inspiring him to become a philanthropist.

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Speaker 1: But also if you look at the specific acts of

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Speaker 1: philanthropy that he's responsible for, a lot of them do

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Speaker 1: center on cancer. And again he was diagnosed in nineteen nine.

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Speaker 2: He certainly has a personal reason to be very interested

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Speaker 2: in that.

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Speaker 1: A personal identification with it. So again, objectively inarguably good things,

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Speaker 1: but you can see why people would criticize even that

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Speaker 1: part of this person's life. And that's not even talking

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Speaker 1: about the other huge category of donations for the Coke industries,

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Speaker 1: for David Cooke himself, for his brother as well, and

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Speaker 1: all their related name brands. And that is the realm

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Speaker 1: of politics.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to get into that right after a

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Speaker 2: quick word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: So politics, right, Yeah, you become a billionaire and two

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Speaker 1: things happen. People keep trying to draw you into politics, right,

435
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: and you are, as we said, inherently going to be

436
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: a controversial figure to some. That is literally the most

437
00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: fair way to say it.

438
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the bottom of that spectrum is you're going

439
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: to get frequent calls when there's an election coming up.

440
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: Right, So David Coke did become involved in politics. In fact,

441
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: he ran for vice president once back in nineteen eighty.

442
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: He did not run on the GOP ticket. He did

443
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: not run on the Democratic ticket. He ran as a

444
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 1: libertarian along with the presidential candidate Ed Clark, so they

445
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: had a very i would say nowadays for most people

446
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: who are familiar with the concepts of libertarianism. They had

447
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: to pretty much buy the book Libertarian Platform. Let's get

448
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: rid of minimum wage laws, Let's get rid of corporate taxes,

449
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: agricultural subsidies, Let's give the FED the boot a cavalcade

450
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: of federal agencies. Interestingly enough, the FBI and the CIA

451
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: were on that list, and I thought, wow, you guys

452
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: are not going to win this election if.

453
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: We don't want any policing either here or abroad.

454
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: Right. They also they also wanted to get rid of

455
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: Social Security, but and some of our fellow listeners are

456
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: already well aware of this, the ticket had some things

457
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: that could be seen as surprisingly socially progressive, especially for

458
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: that time and era.

459
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically, if they were seeking equal rights for the

460
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: LGBTQIA group, they wouldn't have referred to it as that

461
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty, but yes, they were looking for equal

462
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: rights for all people. They wanted to end the drug war,

463
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: which you know is if anything is progressive, that feels

464
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: like one of the top things. And especially you have

465
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: to remember that if you're thinking about a conservative person

466
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: or group of people with so much wealth. You don't

467
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: imagine that those two things would exist on a ticket,

468
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: or are as policies on it ticket.

469
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: And it's strange because it is. It is surprisingly progressive,

470
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: or appears to be so if you just look at

471
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: that one fastt of it. But things like cutting a

472
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: ton of federal agencies, that's a harder pill for a

473
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: lot of people to swallow.

474
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: But it's one of those it's one of those things

475
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: that sticks out in some of our minds so strongly

476
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: that maybe we don't even think about the other things.

477
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: We just know, Oh, those those guys represent this one

478
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: thing that I really like. But all the rest I'm

479
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: not even going to pay attention.

480
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: To, right, Yeah, the danger of single issue voting. Yeah,

481
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: so it did work out. They did not win. They

482
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: were positive in terms of their surprise at just how

483
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: much of the vote they did get, which was small

484
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: but measurable, I believe.

485
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

486
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were like, hey, that's actually pretty great.

487
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: But not winning that election did not spell the end

488
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: of political involvement for David Koch. Quite the opposite. You see,

489
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: he and his brother Charles had already been active in

490
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: politics behind the scenes for a long time, and they

491
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: escalated their operations over the following decades because they have

492
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: been working on this kind of stuff since the seventies.

493
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: Cooke's political spending, both through his institutions and his donations,

494
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: was nothing if not thematically consistent. It was very much

495
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: inligne with his deeply held libertarian beliefs as far as

496
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: we know. In the money that we can trace, which

497
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: is a pretty small slice of the pie, a tip

498
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: of the financial iceberg here, the Kochs have collectively spent

499
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: at least one hundred million dollars building this massive political machine,

500
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: sometimes called the Coke to Pus Have you heard that one?

501
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: In a few places.

502
00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: This machine is meant to bring mainstream US and maybe

503
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: over a larger swath of the mainstream West in general,

504
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: much more in line with their own right leaning libertarian beliefs.

505
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: Critics have accused the Cookes of buying influence. That part

506
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: is true. That is how lobbying works. Lobbying is legal

507
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: in this country.

508
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially the kind of lobbying that the Koch brothers

509
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: and several other groups of billionaires and people representing billions

510
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: of dollars put through as.

511
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: Law right exactly shout out to Alec.

512
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, shout out to Citizens United.

513
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: So critics have also said that the Kochs are using

514
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: this political machine they built to manipulate elections and government

515
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: policies like you're pointing out, Matt, under the cover of

516
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: vague and nice sounding words like liberty, freedom, patriotism. To

517
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: supporters of one or more of these in depth, this

518
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: is in line with their own ideological beliefs. To critics,

519
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: this is a shell game, with the ultimate end being

520
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: something very much like neo feudalism. There is not a

521
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,239
Speaker 1: state that functions the way that states are supposed to

522
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: function in democracies or representative democracies, et cetera. But what

523
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: is this machine exactly? Is this business as usual or

524
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: is this a vast conspiracy? And perhaps most importantly, what

525
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: happens to the engine once the driver has passed away.

526
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy.

527
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: It gets handed down to the next in line in succession,

528
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: just like that TV show, HBO.

529
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: What is the TV show Secession? Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

530
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's I'm being facetious. Let's let's get into it. No,

531
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. Actually, we both know you're

532
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: at spread. So yes, there is a conspiracy of foot.

533
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: The issue here is that people will maybe disagree with

534
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: the characterization of the conspiracy or focus on smaller parts

535
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: of the whole. Probably the best or most well known

536
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: of the coke critics is the investigative journalist and author

537
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: Jane Mayer. In her book Dark Money, The Hidden History

538
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: of Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right, she

539
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: explores the coke system and what she sees as its

540
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: ultimate aim, which is instituting policies that directly benefit coke

541
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: industries and protect it from the consequences of the widespread

542
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: pollution it creates. So also it's weird because it's also

543
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: advancing the libertarian ambitions or ideologies of the Koch brothers

544
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: and their affiliates, but at the same time it's helping

545
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: their bottom line in a very easily provable way, like

546
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: a one to one match. If you look at if

547
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: you look at how different members of the House of

548
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: Representatives vote for what they prioritize, and that's again, that's legal,

549
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: that's lobbying.

550
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: It is and it is certainly heartening to think of

551
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: it in those terms the way Jane Mayor describes it

552
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: in Dark Money, just about how and it's kind of

553
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: what we talked about before, just how the consequences of

554
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: their actions and their industries, and they're the way they're

555
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: attempting to free those up to do whatever they want

556
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: to do, however long they want to do, and however

557
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: much they want to do in the end having those

558
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: things also hurting the people that surround those industries. I

559
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: mean that is that this is where we get into

560
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: that territory really is dark money. It's it's scary, right.

561
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: Dark money is dark in that it is untraceable.

562
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: Right, Well, it's untraceable, but it's also like dark thematically,

563
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: like it's uh, I don't know, not evil is a

564
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: strong word, but it's uh, it has ill intentions.

565
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, dark money typically does not refer to anonymous donors

566
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: on a mission to give every kid a library with

567
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: him walking distance or you know, free lunch.

568
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, or prevent any of those kids from ever developing

569
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: prostate cancer.

570
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: Right, right, that's the issue. So there's this other journalist,

571
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: Peter Overbet writing for MPR, and I like the way

572
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: that he phrased this. It's also clearly coming from a

573
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: specific stance, right he says, quote, the Koke political network

574
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: remains famous and infamous for its secret funding and fiercely

575
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: negative advertising, which often aimed at then President Barack Obama

576
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: and other Democrats. Their group, Americans for Prosperity, was funded

577
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: with Koch Brothers money as well as contributions from other

578
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: rich donors they recruited, and although David Cooke denied giving

579
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: money to Tea Party candidates, in twenty ten, the Koch Brothers'

580
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: efforts helped the Republicans win a net gain of sixty

581
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: three seats in the House of Representatives. So again I

582
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: agree or disagree with the aims of those representatives, the

583
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: aims of the Cokes. The point here, the takeaway here

584
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: is that the system they created works. You know what

585
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: I mean, the secret seminars they have, which is a

586
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: real thing. The secret seminars they have do result in

587
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 1: actionable plans, and they do make a difference to your

588
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: life if you live in the US well.

589
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 2: And they also were working to target specific I guess

590
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: you would say, types of people within the United States.

591
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: And they were doing this in a lot of different ways.

592
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 2: But some of these groups aimed directly at veterans, some

593
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 2: directly at senior citizens, at latinos or women, and a

594
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff. It's strange how it would appear

595
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: on the surface to not necessarily be political, like a

596
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: lot of the ways that they would kind of get

597
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 2: in the door. I don't know. But again, what we

598
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: do know is that they were exploiting stuff. And this

599
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: is a commonality that we'll see throughout a couple of

600
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: other things with the Kochs, like loopholes in pollution standards

601
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 2: with the EPA, loopholes in production standards, things like that.

602
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: But in this case it was a lack of transparency

603
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: within the US law and also weak enforce them by

604
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: the IRS, and the Supreme Court had made some decisions

605
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 2: in the past that created some serious loopholes or at

606
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: least places for abuse.

607
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: And then, of course the other controversial causes, one of

608
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: the big ones in the news today being climate change

609
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: denial organizations. Examples of this would include funding studies and

610
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: then directing those studies to spend the perspective or spin

611
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: the data right. In an interview once upon a time,

612
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: one of the Koch brothers argued that climate change was

613
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: actually good for humanity and that it would create more

614
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: arable land to grow food, or that it would help

615
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: drive innovation.

616
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: It's really going to clear up Greenland for all the

617
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: stuff we need to do on it.

618
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: Finally, right, So the big question here why is there

619
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: not more accountability or transparency for this web and others

620
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: like it? I would also add a further question. If

621
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: this is truly the right thing to do, if this

622
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: is truly something for the greater good, then why does

623
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: it need to occur in secret? Why does the money

624
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: need to be dark? If we are helping humanity, you

625
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: know what I mean?

626
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: So it's more like a surprise for humanity.

627
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: There we go. Well, far be it for us to

628
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: ruin a good surprise party?

629
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: Right?

630
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: According to Mayer, it's because these groups are considered charities,

631
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: so they don't need to disclose the names of their donors,

632
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: and she describes them as kinds of secret banks that

633
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: affect American politics in a huge way without most people

634
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: understanding who is behind them. Critics of the KOs operation

635
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: don't stop at calling it dark money. You'll hear them

636
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: accuse the Koch brothers of everything from actively conspiring to

637
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: subverting democracy to enacting a slow motion, decades long coup

638
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: detta God. And they certainly do again behave in a

639
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: conspiratorial manner. A lot of the things that they support

640
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: are things that the average US resident would be against

641
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: or have have some serious concerns about. At the very

642
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: least the Koch Brothers hold are held the co co organizations,

643
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: a better way to say it, held twice a year seminars.

644
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: They are carefully carefully hidden, sequestered, quarantined from the public.

645
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: The guest list and the substance of the conversation at

646
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: hand are closely guarded secrets. At one point, they even

647
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: erected white noise machines that created static facing the outside

648
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: due to concerns about people eavesdropping on what they're saying.

649
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: And again, if what you're doing is the greater good,

650
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: is the surprise that much more important than the substance

651
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: of your actions?

652
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: No, certainly not. Man Well, and here's the crazy thing.

653
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 2: It's not just a small group of influential people right

654
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: who end up at these places, who go to these seminars.

655
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: There was a leaked guest list, and it was somewhere

656
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: in the realm of four hundred to four hundred and

657
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: fifty people, and not just any people. We are talking

658
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: about the wealthiest conservatives in America. And they get together

659
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: and they hang out. Who knows what they're doing. They

660
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: could be swapping recipes, they could be planning, you know,

661
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: strategic ways to use their gathered monies, their fortunes to

662
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, influence politics, change the way we have

663
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 2: to do things.

664
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: And they could be quantum leap fanfic. You know what

665
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: I mean.

666
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean that is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

667
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: It's a good show.

668
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: Wow.

669
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, but that's what we know. We know the

670
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: demo of the attendees, and we know some of what

671
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: appear to be the results because we can see some

672
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 1: other donations that these attendees make. And there's a fantastic

673
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: ride up on this if you like more information about it. Again,

674
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: a pretty biased source, but it's worth the read. It's

675
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 1: called high toilow down dot org and this I wasn't

676
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: familiar with this source beforehand, but they have They have

677
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: a pretty good walkthrough of the mechanisms. Yea, some of

678
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: the organizations that are the faces for these donations.

679
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 2: Yes, but as a heads up, as and as Ben said,

680
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: some of the language in there from the author is

681
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 2: a little you can feel it. You can feel the

682
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: bias immediately and inherently.

683
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: This author probably does not attend those twice a year meetings.

684
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna go out on a lim Matt, I

685
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think this person is a fan.

686
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, of the Coke to PUS. And one thing this

687
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 2: author does point out that was intriguing for me was

688
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: that they're they're really outlining the whole citizens United changes

689
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: to packs and super PACs and viewing money as essentially

690
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: a vote or or voting with your money. Right, This

691
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 2: concept of being able to make unlimited campaign donations to

692
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: any candidate whatsoever for any reason, the author equates that

693
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: to essentially a coup within the United States.

694
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I believe the author of this is Jim

695
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: high Tower, who bills himself as America's number one populist.

696
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: Oh that's his picture at the top, and he.

697
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: Is an author, public speaker, and self described political spark plug.

698
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: Twice he was served as the Texas Agricultural Commissioner, so

699
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: he definitely has a anti corporate stance. Be aware of that.

700
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: But with that in mind, they trace the nuts and

701
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: bolts of the organism of the coctpus's functions pretty well.

702
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: And that's where we go. That's the thing. So when

703
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: David Coke passed away. There were quite a few people

704
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter, on social media and the pres and so

705
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: on who were more or less lauding, dancing on the

706
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 1: guy's grave, happy that he was gone, because they saw

707
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: that as our species saw that as a way to

708
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: prevent further damage right or further enactment of these policies.

709
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: The thing is for everyone, everyone who is whistling in

710
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: that particular graveyard, most of the people are celebrating this

711
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: guy's death, are doing so because they object to the policies,

712
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: the institutions, the machines that he helped create, and those machines,

713
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: those policies, those institutions, they are alive and well, they

714
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: are doing just fine. They are set to continue. The

715
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: money is too good. We know a little bit about

716
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: what comes next.

717
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's the succession thing we were talking about.

718
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: According to the source Business Insider, there is somebody who

719
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,240
Speaker 2: is ready to take over the heir to the throne,

720
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: if you will, and it is David Coke's nephew. It's

721
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: his brother, Charles's son, Chase Coke. He's at least being positioned,

722
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: let's say, as being the one to take over next.

723
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: But again, according to business insider, Chase has something different

724
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: in mind. He wants to shift focus of the company

725
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: away from a lot of these conservative politics, a lot

726
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 2: of the things. He wants to shift away from support

727
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: of a lot of the things that his uncle David

728
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: had been wanting to do as well as his dad Charles.

729
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: And apparently he isn't much of a fan of Donald Trump.

730
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: Right, well, Charles Koke was not much of a fan

731
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump either, because, you know, the policies of

732
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: the current administration have at times clashed with the ideologies

733
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: of the Coke libertarianism. Right.

734
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, open aid with everybody. Let's all exchange all

735
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: the money so that I can make more billions. Yes, sorry,

736
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 2: that's putting it crudely, but.

737
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Well, the thing is that he is apparently

738
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: trying to how to Politico phrase it. They said, Chase

739
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: Coke wants to steer the conservative juggernaut his family created

740
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 1: toward a kinder, gentler libertarianism.

741
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: Interesting, it sounds nice, but uh, what does that mean?

742
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: Kinder gentler libertarianism.

743
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: In addition to recruiting donors to the Coke Network, he's

744
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: been doing things like anti poverty initiatives. He's been trying

745
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: to grow relationships with high profile individual influencers Dion Sanders

746
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: from the NFL. Yeah, he's getting down with him, or

747
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: he's trying to build some kind of bridge, and you

748
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: guide their philanthropy so that they can work together, guide

749
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: their philanthropy and towards causes that they're both concerned with.

750
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: And so the steps that Chase Coke is taking or

751
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: is expected to take in the future are seen as separate,

752
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: drawing a brighter line between what they do and the

753
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 1: mainstream Republican party. And not all the donors are happy

754
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: with this. They see the change as not one hundred

755
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: percent on board with why they got into the game

756
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: in the first place. Still, again, Chase Coke may be

757
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: driving the machine, but it's still the same machine, maybe

758
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: taking some different turns, some different routes. But it remains

759
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: to be seen how different this will actually become. And

760
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: there is in this case and an active conspiracy. It's inarguable,

761
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: it's not a theory. The network created by the Koch

762
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: brothers conspired through some backdoor things that were not very transparent,

763
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: that were opaque, and they did this to bring their

764
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: own their own belief system into the mainstream and to

765
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: do their best to push conversation and thought in public

766
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: policy toward that. So it's a real conspiracy. The difference here,

767
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: or the big differentiation here is for some people that

768
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: that is a conspiracy towards the greater good. For other people,

769
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: that is a conspiracy to enrich the elite at the

770
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: cost of not only every other living human being, but

771
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: the planet upon which those human beings live.

772
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and if if you look at this story individually,

773
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 2: it's about a family consolidating power, right, Yeah, a single family,

774
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 2: not just a whole bunch of elite people out there.

775
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: It's the Koch family. And when you have an air

776
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: coming through like Chase, who has been relatively unknown for

777
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 2: forty two years or so, it's interesting to then thrust

778
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 2: somebody like that into the spotlight and you know, have

779
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: some some changes to what may happen or what the

780
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: forward facing ideology is of your conglomerate or whatever, because

781
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: there is change in the air. It's really interesting because

782
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: it is just one small group of people who are

783
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 2: all related by blood, who are managing to have these

784
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: massive waves within our culture and society.

785
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: So what do you think, folks, Is this all on

786
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: the up and up. Is this how the game is played?

787
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: Is this exceptionally evil or unethical? And if so, whatever

788
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: your answer may be, why we'd love to hear from you.

789
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 2: If you controlled, let's say, one hundred billion dollar giant conglomerate,

790
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 2: would you fight to have the rules and regulations put

791
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: forth by the government in which you operate? Would you

792
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: fight to have those weakened so that you could make

793
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: more billions? Would you do that? I don't know. Put

794
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 2: in that position, it feels like maybe we would if

795
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: we knew that that money was all like for our

796
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 2: family and for the future of our children. It's weird.

797
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: It's a weird proposition.

798
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: Well again, you know, nobody thinks they're the bad guy.

799
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: Nobody thinks they're the antagonists in the story. We're all

800
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: the protagonists of our own stories. We all feel like

801
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: we in general know the best way to do something

802
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: or have a good idea about how to go about it.

803
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: So with that in mind, we also have to we

804
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 1: also have to note that, in a purely financial sense,

805
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: a lot of organizations of this size are similar to sharks.

806
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: They have to keep swimming, they have to keep eating,

807
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: otherwise they will perish. I mean, that's the that's the

808
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: part of the concept, right, And does that make it correct?

809
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely not.

810
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: No, But sharks are scary.

811
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: Right right. But I still think it's a good comparison

812
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: because I know, yeah, sharks are scary. Scary. Sharks are scary, indeed,

813
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

814
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts. It's right. Let us know

815
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: what you think. It can reach you to the handle

816
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on Facebook x and YouTube

817
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy Stuff Show.

818
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,600
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819
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:44,800
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820
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,040
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821
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

822
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,040
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823
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 2: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

824
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

825
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: We are the entities to read every single piece of

826
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. A yet not afraid Sometimes the void

827
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: writes back. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

828
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

829
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,560
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830
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,719
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