1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 2: should Know, the Let's get Jiggy with Science edition. You 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: know you're about to get jiggy Chuck with it, Yeah. 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: With it. 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: And it is this episode about what people believe before 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: the scientific method. 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we have a pretty good episode on 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: the scientific method. And we have talked about some of 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: this stuff here and there throughout the years, like you know, 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: early science, and it's easy to make fun of that stuff, right, 13 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: but we are here not to make fun of it 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: and not necessarily to defend it, but to just put 15 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: it into perspective of where these people were at the time. 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: And you can see how long of this stuff made 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: sense at the time. 18 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: See that was as jiggy as it comes, all right, 19 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: see you later. Yeah, that was really well put and 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: just as a refresher real quick. So you don't have 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 2: to pause and go back and listen to our scientific 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 2: method episode. You can if you want, but if you 23 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: don't feel like doing that, the scientific method is just 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: basically a plan to keep yourself from going down blind 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 2: alleys or being misled by what seems to be the 26 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: case but isn't necessarily the case. Sometimes your own eyes 27 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: can lie to you, and it basically says is like, 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: based on you know, data you've collected or things you've observed, 29 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: form a hypothesis like this happens because of this, figure 30 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 2: out how to test it, test it, look at the results. 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: Did it support the hypothesis, did it not support the hypothesis, 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: and either keep going forward or go back to square one. 33 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: And by testing it, that's where the scientific method really shines. 34 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: And before the scientific method, people didn't do that. They 35 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: used their eyes, the empiricists, they formed theories, the rationalists 36 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: or dogmatists, they performed experiments, the methodists, that's really what 37 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: they called them. But they didn't actually like test this stuff, 38 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: and so they were able to create these theories that 39 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: were totally wrong. Sometimes we're really right, but in a 40 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: lot of cases we're really wrong. And that those things 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: were adopted for like thousands of years in some cases. 42 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, because a lot of science was mixed up with 43 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: philosophy for a long long time. And as you'll see 44 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: with some of these like if you had a good 45 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: enough sort of philosophical thought about something and other people said, hey, 46 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: that makes sense, and you kept repeating it a lot. 47 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: Then at the time people were like, well that's good 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: enough for. 49 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: Us, Yeah, which meant also if philosophy was in there, 50 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: you had to also had to explain why more than 51 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: be reliably consistent in its results. 52 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So. 53 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: One of the first ones that I think people think 54 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: of when they think of ancient science as the Four 55 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: Humors humors of medicine, which was something that came along 56 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: from Hippocrates all the way back in I think the 57 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: fourth or fifth century BCE and was in place until 58 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: the sixteen hundreds. Essentially that was how people practice medicine. 59 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a long run. Hippocrates probably did 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: not make it up himself. It's theorized that he probably 61 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: brought it over or he didn't necessarily, but it was 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: brought over to the Greeks, maybe from India, maybe from Egypt. 63 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: But Hippocrates ran with it, and then Galen really ran 64 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: with it. And Galen is who is probably most people 65 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: think of Galen when they think of the humors, the 66 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: four humors, right, but humore h m R is Latin 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: meaning fluid. And that's basically what they're talking about with 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: the four humors. Almost at humids, the four humors, which 69 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: are the fluids of the body, and we should just 70 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: name them quickly, I think, yeah, fl flim you got blood, 71 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: and then you got the two biles. You got black 72 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: bile and yellow bile. 73 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: Right, And those things are not just the sum total 74 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: of what was studied or what was responsible for ill 75 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: health or for health. They almost stood in for a 76 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: bunch of other things too, Like your energy could be 77 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: low or angry or overly happy, and all those were 78 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 2: associated with different humors, right. So I think it was 79 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 2: Palamar University website on it basically put it like more 80 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: than just fluids themselves. You could think of the humors 81 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: as those things that flow fluids, energy, that kind of stuff. Yeah, 82 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: and all these humors also had complexions. They had they 83 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: were either wet or dry, cold or hot, and there 84 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: were combinations. 85 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: Of those but not And it's not literally that no, 86 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: a little confusing, it's super duper confusing. 87 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: And I think this is an example of what happens 88 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: when people over a couple thousand years kind of contribute 89 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: to stuff. It gets a little off kilter. 90 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, like blood is hot and wet, But that didn't 91 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: necessarily mean they're saying that when you touch blood it 92 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: was hot to the touch, right. It's almost like what 93 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: a synesthesiac approach right to the body. 94 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, put so, like water is cold, boiling water 95 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: is cold, ice is hot. I don't understand some of 96 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: it exactly right. So the upshot of it was is 97 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: that each humor was hot and hot or it has 98 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 2: it had a temperature and humidity, yeah, hot or cold, 99 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 2: wet or dry, and depending on what symptoms you had, 100 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: you either had like a hot and wet disease, right, 101 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: or cold and dry disease. And the treatment was to 102 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: use the opposite. So I think pneumonia was cold and 103 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: wet because it came on during the winter, which is 104 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: very cold and wet around the Mediterranean at the time, 105 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: and you would treat that with something warm and dry. 106 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: So herbs were warm and dry. You would treat use 107 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: herbs to treat pneumonia. And the whole pursuit was just 108 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: to regain balance. Each person at a a pre I 109 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: guess ordained balance of those four humors, and when they 110 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: got out of whack, that's when you were you came 111 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: down with the disease. 112 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've heard about, you know, forcing yourself to 113 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: vomit or you know the bleeding, the old great Steve 114 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: Martin sketch from Saturday An five years ago. You just 115 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: need a good bleeding. That's what they were doing. They 116 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: were trying to get you back into balance by removing 117 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: whatever humor they thought, you know, either the flame or 118 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: the blood thought would you needed you had an excess 119 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: of at the time to bring you back into homeostasis. 120 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: So they were again they were wrong, but you know, 121 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: things like homeostasis, they were on the right track with 122 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: some of this, some of these ideas at least for sure. 123 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's I think kind of a recurring theme 124 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: in this when you look in on ancient science and 125 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: ancient knowledge, it's like they kind of had like the 126 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 2: contours of some of these and that's a good example 127 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: of that contours exactly. So it wasn't until Paracelsus, who 128 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: came up, I think in our Zenobiotics episode. When he 129 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: came along, he was definitely an outlier and an outsider thinker, 130 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: and he was like, I think Galen was just really wrong. 131 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 2: This stuff just doesn't quite add up. Yeah, and I 132 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: think William Harvey, who was an English i think physician 133 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: in sixteen sixteen, he shows that the heart pumps blood 134 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: and that just completely undermined the humoral medicine thought that 135 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: these these humors moved around the body through attractive forces. 136 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, again, this is one of those 137 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: kind of what I said in the intro, like, this 138 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: is one of those that people believed and got on 139 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: board with because it made sense at the time. It 140 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: was something that they were very persistent about. And if 141 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: you're persistent about something, even if it wasn't proven at 142 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: the time, was that was enough for people. It was 143 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: the consistency of sort of the idea that's repeated over 144 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: and over that got people on board for a long time, 145 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: hundreds of years. 146 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's interesting, like the humoral medicine 147 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: is still one of the foundations of ayervedic medicine from India, 148 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: and that's why they think it might have come from 149 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: India originally to Greece. But the basis of it is 150 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 2: that you use like movement and diet to keep your 151 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: humors in balance, and that was kind of the basis 152 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: of the Greek interpretation too. But then they took it 153 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 2: too far and started using it to treat disease and 154 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: doing all sorts of weird stuff. So now we have 155 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: modern medicine, and modern medicine likes to disown its predecessors. 156 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: But it wouldn't be here if we didn't have things 157 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: like humoral medicine. 158 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: First up with Galen, Why not you have sneakily not 159 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: mentioned that this is a top five. 160 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: Oh that's right, it's a top five, maybe part one 161 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: of a top ten. Who knows. 162 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see. Should we try and knock out the 163 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: next one? Yeah? 164 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: I say that. I say so, I agree, that's what 165 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: I say. 166 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: All right, this one's interesting, and this has to do 167 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: with Yeah, it sounds a little wacky, but again you 168 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: have to keep in mind where they were at the time. 169 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: So this is the idea put forth by How do 170 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: you pronounce that name? 171 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: I'm going with Eoxus, Eudoxus, eudoxis, Yeah, I think eudoxis 172 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 2: all right. 173 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: Eudoxus of Nidos was born between three ninety five and 174 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: three ninety BCC, lived to kind of early to mid fifties, 175 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: and he came along and said, all right, I've got 176 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: some pretty radical things to throw out there that are fivefold. 177 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: Part one, the Earth is the center of the universe. 178 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: Check. 179 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: And everyone was like, sounds reasonable, And it was reasonable 180 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: at the time. And we'll talk about that in a second. 181 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: Number two, all celestial motion is circular Roger. Number three, 182 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: all celestial motion is regular. Number four, the center of 183 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: the path of any celestial motion is the same as 184 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: the center of its motion, all right. And then number five, 185 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: the center of all celestial motion is the center of 186 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: the universe. And I said, you know, he can't be 187 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: blamed for that first one, even though he was wrong 188 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: about geocentrism at the time. When he stood on the 189 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: planet and you looked up and you saw, you know, 190 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: stars sort of moving and other things moving in a 191 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: circle around the Earth, you probably felt like you were 192 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: the center of the universe exactly. 193 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: I mean, it would just make sense. You'd be a 194 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: fool to think otherwise, because there's no indication that the 195 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: Earth itself is also moving. It seems like everything else 196 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: is moving around the Earth, so it's not so far 197 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: fetched to think that, oh, the Earth is the center 198 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: of the universe. Part of it also tied into that 199 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: natural philosophy thing where humans were the center of the universe. 200 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: They were like the creation of the gods, and of 201 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: course why would Earth be anything but the center of 202 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: the universe. But it also had to do with practical stuff, 203 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: like what they saw with their own eyes. 204 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he wasn't the first person to come up 205 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: with this, Like this has been around for a long 206 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: long time, and he was just sort of officially reaffirming it. 207 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: But he was the first person to give us a 208 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: model of the movement of the cosmos, celestial bodies moving 209 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: through the sky and trying to explain it. And somebody 210 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: who came before him an aximines, I'm going with that 211 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: he was the first one to say, Hey, I've got it. 212 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: This is back in the sixth century VC. It shells. 213 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: Everything exists in shells, man. 214 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea that, like, I mean, it almost sounds 215 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: like he was creating little miniature galaxies and like everything 216 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: we see is contained inside its own little miniature galaxy, 217 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: like literally contained in a shell. 218 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: Yes, but all of these shells are rotating in different 219 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: orbits around. 220 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: Earth, right, but they can affect one another, right Or 221 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: did that come along later? 222 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 2: That came along with eudoxis so and Axemen's basically said 223 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 2: it's shells, and then Eudoxus was the first one to 224 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: really lay out an explanation of theory for how these 225 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: shells worked. And you think he came with twenty seven 226 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: different shells, some shells had shells within shells. It got 227 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 2: really kind of crazy. But the point of this isn't 228 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 2: like because Eudoxus was mad or anything like that. He 229 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: had to keep adding shells to explain things they saw 230 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: in the night sky. 231 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's almost like they dug themselves a bit 232 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: of a hole. Instead of course correcting and saying, well, 233 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: maybe we should look into a different theory or something, 234 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: they were just like kept adding shells exactly. 235 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 2: So one of the big problems was that first of all, 236 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: the Earth is not the center of the universe, but 237 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 2: also that the motion of celestial bodies is not circular 238 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: and it's not regular. 239 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: It's everything. 240 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 2: He was basically wrong, yeah, on all five of those points. 241 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: But the reason that they that he thought it was 242 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: circular was that circles were perfect. And again, the Earth 243 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 2: was the center of the universe and it was created 244 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: by the gods, so of course it was perfect. But 245 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 2: other people have pointed out that it had to be 246 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: circular if he was going to apply math, because non 247 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 2: circular math for movement hadn't really been created yet. Yeah, 248 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: that's basically that's all he had to work with was 249 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: circular motion. So if he was going to actually investigate 250 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: this and try to figure it out with math, he 251 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 2: had to be circular. So just by what he had 252 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: available at the time, that's why this motion was supposedly circular. 253 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: But that was a huge boondoggle because it's not circular, 254 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: as we found out finally from Kepler, who came along 255 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: and I think the seventeenth century, so again this is 256 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: like two thousand years. People are like, shells is where 257 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: it's at. Even Copernicus, who said he was the first 258 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: one to really say the Sun is at the center 259 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: of the universe, and what he was talking about was 260 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: the solar system and he created a revolution with that. 261 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: He still was saying, but it's all within shells. 262 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: It's just everyone's like, that makes a lot more sense. 263 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: And then he brings up. 264 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: The shells exactly. So Copernicus lays it out and then 265 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: Kepler comes on. I was like, there's no shells, and 266 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: these orbits aren't circular. They're elliptical and he ended up 267 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 2: playing the groundwork for astrophysics to come. 268 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's so easy now that we have 269 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: telescopes and beyond, Like, it's hard to even put your 270 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: mind in a framework of the only thing you have 271 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: is standing on the earth and looking at something with 272 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: your eyeballs and trying to take a guess at what's 273 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: happening out there. 274 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's what gets lost too, is 275 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 2: when we look back and like poke fun at our 276 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: ancient predecessors for being so dumb that, like they were 277 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: really trying to figure this out with what they had 278 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: available at the time. And even if it does seem wacky, 279 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: it's like, can you explain how atoms come together to 280 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: form a rock? 281 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: I can't. That's a good teaser, you know, Yeah, yeah, 282 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: I think it's easy to poke fun of now. But 283 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: the other alternative is they didn't even try, And as 284 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: we see time and time again, a lot of the 285 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: stuff that they came up with at least led to 286 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: the next thing and the next thing, and that's what 287 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: science is. So like, hats my toga is off to them. 288 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: You took your toga off. 289 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, my grapevine atop my head is off, 290 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: you get all right? My toga is back on? 291 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: Okay, because I was gonna say, they're like a helicopter 292 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 2: won't be invented for one thousand plus years. 293 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: All right, I think we should take a break now 294 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: and we will talk about the idea that the Earth 295 00:16:33,960 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: is rotating around to central fire right after this, all right, 296 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: I promise talk of wackiness before we left, about the 297 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: idea that the Earth circled a central fire capital C, 298 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: capital F like the big fire. And this was a 299 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: thing Pythagoraeans, which are the people, the group that you know, 300 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: followed in the footsteps of Pythagoras himself in the sixth century. 301 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: They thought that the Earth circled a big central fire, 302 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: and not only the Earth, but basically everything, all the planets, 303 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: all the stars, the sun, and the moon, everything circled 304 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: around a central fire, and that there was also a 305 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: counter earth, like another earth. And I don't know how 306 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: you pronounce that. 307 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: And titch than I think it's a tickthon and tickthon. Yeah, 308 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: it's a really odd word. 309 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: It is. It's not capitalized, which makes me feel weird. 310 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems fishy, but that's the name of a 311 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: counter that's either in the same orbit or in its 312 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: own orbit, but always opposite the Sun from Earth. Right right, 313 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: This wasn't something where they were pointing up in it 314 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: was Mars, unless they called Mars. This is a hypothetical 315 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: planet that they were saying was out there, we just 316 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: can't see it. And then also with the Central Fire, 317 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: they're not saying that was the Sun. The Sun had 318 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 2: its own orbit around the central Fire. Yeah, and the 319 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 2: Central Fire was unseen because Greece always revolved in a 320 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: way or the Earth always revolved in a way that 321 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 2: Greece was opposite the Central Fire, so it could never 322 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 2: see it. 323 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. So there was this guy Philileus. 324 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 2: Probably I think that's exactly right. 325 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: Of Croton, which sounds like a planet that would circle 326 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: of fire. 327 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: Take me to your leader, I am Croton. 328 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: But Croton was actually in southern Italy, and he was 329 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: another Greek philosopher, scientist. There were a lot of those guys, 330 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: and he was hanging around with Socrates. He was a 331 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: pretty prominent Pythagorean. Oh yeah, and he was one of 332 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: these guys that put forth this uh you know, this idea. 333 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: Even though like they moved away from geocentrism, which is great, 334 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: but instead of moving directly into heliocentrism, they moved to 335 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: the central fire thing. 336 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 2: First, central fireism. Yeah, so yeah, he basically said, there's 337 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 2: a central fire, everything orbits around the central fire, and 338 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 2: the all of the orbits are circular. They love circular orbits, 339 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: and that the Earth, the Sun, the Moon, and the 340 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: five planets each had their own orbit. And there was 341 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 2: that counter Earth too, bizarro Earth and Tikman that was 342 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: opposite Earth at all times. That made ten ten orbits 343 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 2: all together. And there are a couple of reasons for that. 344 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: One is that to the Pythagoreans, ten was a perfect number, 345 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: So of course there were ten orbits, but also it 346 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: explained having that counter Earth, that tenth orbit explained lunar eclipses, 347 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: because then that meant that that was just a tick 348 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: thin shadow being cast on the Moon. 349 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Also to in defense of these sort of wild ideas, 350 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: they did have the idea that these orbits they varied 351 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: quite a bit in how long they took. The Earth's 352 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: took twenty four hours, the Sun's took a year, the 353 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: Moon's took a month, And you know, they were on 354 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: a right track at that point, as far as lunar 355 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: orbits and Earth's orbits in the Sun and things like that, 356 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: because they all do take different amounts of time, and 357 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: they were pretty on track with the Earth taking twenty 358 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: four hours, except the way they describe it was I 359 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: think it was more that not the Earth is spinning 360 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: on its axis as at orbits the Sun, but more 361 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: like we're really circulating the central fire a lot faster 362 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: than the Sun, and we lap the Sun every twenty 363 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: four hours, and that's how we have day and night. 364 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 2: It's just so wrong, and you can understand. It's so 365 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: fascinating that they had that data, they had that information available, 366 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: and they just went the exact wrong direction with it. 367 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: But again, this is just what this is what they 368 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 2: had available to them at the time. I find that 369 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: fascinating that that's how they explained it. It's pretty cool. 370 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 2: So in this IFL science article I found they basically said, 371 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: it's actually possible, hypothetically for a counter Earth to exist 372 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 2: in the same orbit as Earth, but always opposite Earth, 373 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: like traveling at the same rate. We've discovered extra solar 374 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 2: planets that have that same arrangement, so it's possible, but 375 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 2: it's impossible that there actually is a counter Earth, because 376 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: we've run models on it, our astrophysicists have, I should say, 377 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: you and I haven't, and it would It would affect 378 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: other planets, even just a small counter Earth would affect 379 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: other planets orbits very noticeably. It's starting with Venus, and 380 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 2: Venus's orbit is not being affected by any mysterious object, 381 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: so there is no counter Earth. 382 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: That turns out, that's right, I'm sure. Jim Morrison was 383 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: very disappointed to hear that the Central Fire went away. 384 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: This all reminded me of like a door song. 385 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: Central fire, Yeah, for sure. 386 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: You know, everything revolving around a central fire, a counter earth. 387 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it does kind of seem doors ish, also 388 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 2: pink floidy. 389 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: Yeah that's true, because the doors didn't get super spacey 390 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: as like literal space. 391 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 2: No, but he a central fire sounds, Jim Morrison, the 392 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: counter Earth sounds sounds pink floydy. 393 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. 394 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad we finally settled. 395 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: All right, what do we get next? 396 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: So another one that I think a lot of people 397 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: are familiar with is the four elements like earth, air, 398 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 2: wind fire, earth wind fire and air. 399 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: Great band. Okay, screws it all up. Feature air another 400 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: great band. Air should open for earth, wind, and fire. 401 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: Exactly, and those that that whole idea it dates back to, 402 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 2: like the humoral sense of medicine as well. This was 403 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: something that was found in I think the sixth century BCE, 404 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 2: and that an x Menes, the guy who also said 405 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 2: it's shells, also was like, it's air. 406 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: I love this guy. 407 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, he really was out there, but he like he 408 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 2: lives in a van down by the river, but he 409 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: was very well regarded. 410 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean a lot of people were sort 411 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: of thinking at the time that things were all made 412 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: from a single thing, none of no one could get 413 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: together and agree on what that single thing might be. 414 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: But like you said, for what was it an x Andes, Yeah, 415 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: I think so he was all about the air, and 416 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: Plato came along and then later said, actually we've got earth, fire, water, 417 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: and air, and Aristotle said, don't forget about the ether. 418 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: They're like all right, yeah, fine. 419 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 2: That's something that comes up a lot when you start 420 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: researching ancient knowledge. Aristotle in particular was the guy everyone 421 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: looked at for a thumbs up or thumbs down and 422 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: knowledge at the time, and just him giving a thumbs 423 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 2: up would mean that people would keep doing it for 424 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 2: two thousand years until the scientific Revolution. He was that 425 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: well regarded in his time and following his time as well, 426 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: so he definitely was like, yes, I'm totally down with 427 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 2: the whole earth, air, fire, water, and ether idea that 428 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: everything is made of that and that everything is touching 429 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: everything else. So like the space between you and me 430 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 2: filled with the air element, but not only that. It's 431 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: not only like if you look at the earth, that's 432 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 2: obviously earth element, or if you look at fire this 433 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 2: fire element. Everything is made up of a combination of 434 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 2: some degree of each of these elements. And there's actually 435 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 2: method to that madness too. It wasn't just like because 436 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: we know what water is, we know it eras we 437 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 2: know what fire is and earth, that's what we're going 438 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 2: to say everything's made up. They actually made observations that 439 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 2: either led them to this or that really supported their 440 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 2: ideas in the first place. 441 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 442 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: Like for example, this is how stuff works article gives 443 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: a great example. Wood was solid, which means that it 444 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: had earth in it, It floated, which means that it 445 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: had an air element to it, and then it. 446 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: Burns a witch right, then it burned, which didn't. 447 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 2: So part fire too. So you can see how these 448 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 2: things kind of came together to form a log or 449 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: a stone or a rabbit is another recurring theme. 450 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so that's where we are. Then this 451 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: guy Empedocles comes along. He's from Sicily, fifth century BCE, 452 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: and he was one of the first people to kind 453 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: of put forth the theory that, you know, maybe things 454 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: are built out of things that are so small that 455 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: we can't see them, right, that there are actual building blocks, 456 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: we can't touch them, we can't see them or feel them. 457 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: And if you look at a stone, like look at 458 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: that big rock over there, that's not we call it rock, 459 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: but it's not rock. It's made up of these small elements. 460 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: And people went elements and he said, yes, elements. And 461 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: this was a pretty like far out but on the 462 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: right track way of thinking for fifth century BCE. 463 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he was in. Pedocolis was the guy 464 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: who came along and said, no, that these things are 465 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 2: all made up of different combinations and interactions of these 466 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 2: four elements. And he also suggested that the transformations or 467 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 2: the creations of these things took place through an attractive 468 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: force known as love. 469 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: Oh man, I love that part. 470 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: That that was the combiner, the creator force. So if 471 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: you step back and think about epidocolis, he's just introduced 472 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 2: the idea that there are elements. There are elements, it's 473 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: just the earth, air, fire, wind, and water. And he 474 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 2: also introduced the idea of attractive horses that bring elements together. 475 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: And it's not love. Maybe it's or like electro magnetism 476 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 2: or the nuclear force something like that. 477 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, boy, talk about Jim Morrison. He would have 478 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: been all over this episode totally. I think it would 479 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: have been a big stuff. You should know, fan, Do 480 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: you think so? 481 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: I could see him really just talking smack about us 482 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: for no good reason on the internet. 483 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: I mean, how old would he be today? He died 484 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: at it's a twenty seven clubber, and he died in 485 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: what the seventies, so I. 486 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: Would say probably forty eight. Let's say he was born 487 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty eight, so seventy five he'd be something 488 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: that's perfect age to complain on the internet these days. 489 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: I remember I remember seeing a phony gap ad this 490 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: is a long time ago, where they showed like an 491 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: aged Jim Morrison in like gap jeans or something what 492 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: And they did a really good job with it, and 493 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: it looked like totally like what you could picture him 494 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: looking like. 495 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 2: Are you sure you didn't just dream that? 496 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I also saw the thing recently where 497 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: they use AI to create like what would they look 498 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: like now kind of things? Uh huh. For a lot 499 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: of people who died young, and some of them were 500 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: pretty good, and some of them, like Elvis's was just 501 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: like you just basically gussied up Vernon Presley his dad. 502 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: Oh really, it was like obviously his dad lazy AI. Yeah. 503 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: Some of them were okay. Some of them were pretty dumb. 504 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 2: Well, like Coo, who was one that was okay that 505 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 2: you saw? 506 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 1: Uh oh boy, I'm trying to remember. I don't know. 507 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 2: I don't have to go look that up. I always 508 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 2: forget to look up the stuff you talk about on 509 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: the episodes because the moment we're done, it just vanishes. 510 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 2: You stop existing. 511 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: That's great, that's a secret to our longevity. That's right. 512 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 2: We just both stop existing in the other's minds until 513 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: the next time. 514 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: All right, So where are we we are? Democritis Okay, yeah, yeah, 515 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: Democritis then comes along, Yeah, and he's like all right, 516 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: I got this new theory because there were some problems 517 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: with what Empedocles was talking about. First of all, he 518 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: has offered no evidence. I don't know if anyone noticed 519 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: that at all. And second of all, you take that 520 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,719 Speaker 1: rock o it there, and he said, it's made up. 521 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: You know, if you break it up, it's made up 522 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: of smaller things. But if you keep breaking that thing up, 523 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: you're never gonna get down to fire, no matter how 524 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: small you break that thing up. 525 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 2: Right, So he came up with this idea that you 526 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 2: could break something down to finally its most basic unit, 527 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 2: an indivisible unit that he called atomos, which is Latin 528 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: or Greek for atoms. Yeah, this guy came up with 529 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: the idea of atoms, which he not only said were 530 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 2: the indivisible base units of everything everything, he also said 531 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: that they were indestructible and eternal. And then he also 532 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: said that they exist in free space around us what 533 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: you would call today a vacuum. So this guy basically 534 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: predicted atomic theory a couple of thousand years ago, right, Yeah, 535 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: and it's known as the best guess in antiquity. He 536 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 2: got it so close. Where he went astray is that 537 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: he said that when you broke down a rock, you 538 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 2: would get to the rock atom, and that was it. 539 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 2: Like what you saw a rock, a rabbit something like that, 540 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: you you would if you broke it down to its 541 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: constituent part, like its base atom. It was a rabbit atam, 542 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: or a rock atom, or a log atom or a 543 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: chuck adam the things. The thing it was, it was 544 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: like that specific kind of atom rather than a combination 545 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: of just a few types of atoms that can make anything. 546 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, which you know you did pretty get up into 547 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: that point. For sure, you did very good. I would 548 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: dare say excellent up into that point. 549 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: Would you take your toge off for him? 550 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: I'd flash it, okay, but you know, with permission, of course, sure, 551 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: I would say. You know, it's like, do you mind 552 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: if I lift my togad. 553 00:30:59,040 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: And he could. 554 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: I'm glad you added that. So you know, everyone of 555 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: course wanted to know what Aristotle and Plato thought, even 556 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: you know at the time, or especially at the time, 557 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: and they both basically rejected these ideas. Aristotle sort of 558 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: accepted it, but he said, well, also, there are those 559 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: four core elements, but they can be transformed into one another. 560 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: And everyone was like oh God, here he goes again, Like, 561 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: now we have to start thinking that because Aristotle said 562 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: it exactly. 563 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 2: He threw his lot in with the four elements, in 564 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 2: part because he totally rejected Democritis's assertion that there was 565 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: such a thing as Adams moving in a void in 566 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 2: free space. He said, there's no such thing as a void. 567 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 2: Everything around us is connected. Like the stuff that just 568 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 2: looks like space between you and me, that's the air 569 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 2: element filling that up. Like there's nothing that's not connected. 570 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 2: And because he just would not accept the idea of 571 00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: a vacuum, he gave the thumbs up to Empedoclea's idea 572 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 2: with the elements thumbs down to Democritis. So Democritis is 573 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: incredibly accurate. Prediction would have to wait about two thousand 574 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: years before people finally came around and were like, oh, 575 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: Democritis was super right. 576 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And that's in sixteen forty three, Evangelista Torricelli 577 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: came along. Linda Evan, that's right, an Italian mathematician this 578 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: time studying under Galileo came along and showed that air 579 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: and I believe he was he the first person to 580 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 1: create a vacuum in an experiment like this. Yeah, so 581 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: that's a pretty key part here. But in a vacuum 582 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: showed that air had weight, like this thing that we 583 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: can't see or well sometimes you can smell it, I guess, 584 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: but you can't see it or feel it or anything 585 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: like that. But it was still capable of pushing down 586 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: liquid mercury, which is also how we got the barometer, 587 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: by the way, and everyone was like it rocked everyone's 588 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: world basically, like we can't feel it, we can't see it, 589 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: but it has weight, so it's got to be made 590 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: of something, and so what's it made of? 591 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 2: Right? So how can an element be made of something else? 592 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: I guess is the point of that. And then even 593 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 2: more to the point, Torricelli, by creating the first experimental vacuum, 594 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: proved that Democratis's assertion that there is a vacuum, his predictions, 595 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 2: part of his atomic theory was right. So that was 596 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 2: what really led to the investigation into atomic theory, which 597 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: is finally I think put forth in I think eighteen 598 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: oh three maybe by John Dalton. 599 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: Amazing. 600 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 2: It really is amazing that he got that close, Like 601 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: imagine just and again he's guessing. He had no way 602 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: of testing any of this, but it was a really 603 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: good guess. 604 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, very very smart, forward thinking guy. 605 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll bet he was a heck of a discus thrower. Two. 606 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: Al right, well, we're going to take our final break 607 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: and we're going to come back and talk about our 608 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: final topic, number one, spontaneous generation. 609 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 2: All right, chuck. So there's a well worn trope that 610 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 2: if you throw some grain in like a cellar and 611 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: leave it alone for a little while, it'll spontaneously generate mice. Right, 612 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 2: you've heard that before. 613 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: Haven't you sure? That old bumper sticker. 614 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 2: Apparently there's an element that I'd never heard of before. 615 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 2: You have to put the grains of wheat on a 616 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 2: soiled shirt and then it'll generate mice after a given 617 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 2: amount of time. And that came from the mind of 618 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 2: a guy named Antoine Lewen Hook Levin' hook whoa von Levinhook, Yeah, 619 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 2: who in the sixteen seventies basically pointed to a bunch 620 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 2: of stuff and said, spontaneous generation, spontaneous generation, spontaneous generation. 621 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: And again he was so he wasn't actually coming up 622 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 2: with this idea of spontaneous generation. He was giving it 623 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 2: a boost. In the seventeenth century. It was actually a 624 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: really ancient way of explaining where life came from. And 625 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 2: at the time of again Aristotle, there were three competing theories, right, 626 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 2: there was spontaneous generation, there was Preformationism, and then there 627 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 2: was epigenesis, and depending on what you thought about what 628 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 2: you subscribe to at least one, if not two, of 629 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 2: those at the same time. 630 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: Can I name my favorite spontaneous generation from Jean Baptista 631 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: von Helmont. Yes, that if you took a brick mold 632 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: and lined it with basil, you would spawn scorpions. 633 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that weird? 634 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: It's pretty good. 635 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 2: He also said, and I think I said it was 636 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 2: Antoine von Levinhook who said that. No, I'm sorry. That 637 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 2: was the guy who started to perfect the microscope. He 638 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 2: comes in later on. I was wrong, But von Helmont 639 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 2: van Helmont, he was the one that came up with 640 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of different ones, like mice from grain, 641 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,359 Speaker 2: scorpions from brick molds. I think insects was a huge one. 642 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 2: That if you laid out rotting meat, Yeah, this is 643 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 2: maggots would spontaneously generate. And again it's you. It sounds mad, 644 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 2: it sounds ridiculous, and preposterous to us today. But that 645 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 2: was before Antoine von Levinhook, the Dutch scientist introduced or 646 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 2: popularized the microscope, and could show with his much more 647 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 2: improved version of the microscope that there was a whole 648 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 2: other world out there that's invisible to the naked eye. 649 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: Prior to that, they had no idea and if they 650 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 2: did it, they were just guessing. And so it would 651 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 2: make sense that you're like, okay, if you lease some 652 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 2: rotting meat out these totally these things just come out 653 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 2: of nowhere. The maggots generate from spontaneously from rotting meat. 654 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know that was disproved before the microscope. 655 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: The maggots at least, yeah by Francesco Ready was a 656 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: Tuscan physician and said, you know, all you gotta do 657 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: is keep the flies off of it. You're not going 658 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: to get maggots. So let's just cover it with some 659 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: muslin and voila, no maggots. So everyone was a little disappointed. 660 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: I think the microscope comes along and it didn't like 661 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: blow up everything automatically as far as these theories go. 662 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: It did not settle anything out of the gate, because 663 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: what basically they were saying was you know, there are 664 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: things that are so tiny we can see him with 665 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: our naked eye, but now he can see him with 666 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: this microscope. But then all of a sudden people started saying, oh, well, 667 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: those tiny things are what's causing the spontaneous generation. Then 668 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: we just couldn't see them. 669 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 2: Before, right. But then the microscope also said the people 670 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 2: who were in favor of spontaneous generation said, great, those 671 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 2: are the things that are spontaneously generating. Then we just 672 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 2: don't see them until they become maggots. And so they 673 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 2: performed experiments where they would seal a flask of water, 674 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 2: boil it to sterilize it, and then wait a few 675 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 2: days and go back and look, and there would be 676 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 2: microbes again where there hadn't been before, and they're like, 677 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 2: see spontaneous generation. And then some of the critics of 678 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 2: those experiments said, you guys just aren't boiling it long enough. 679 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 2: It's not actually sterile, right. And it wasn't until I 680 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 2: think eighteen sixty when Louis Pasture came along and said 681 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 2: this is how you precisely sterilize things and showed the 682 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 2: world how to do it, that he really was. He 683 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 2: managed to really kind of put the final nail in 684 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 2: the coffin for spontaneous generation. 685 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was kind of it. From that moment 686 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: we knew or you know, we started to build on 687 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: the idea that life arises from life. That's the only 688 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: way things do not spontaneously generate. As fun of an 689 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: idea as that is, life comes from life and that's 690 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: the only place that comes from. Yes. 691 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 2: So I said that in the ancient world, you may 692 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 2: have subscribed to two of those, and the reason why 693 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 2: is because one of them epigenesis, an Aristotle product Aristotle 694 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 2: brand was pretty accurate. It was Aristotle explaining that the 695 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 2: fluids from the mother and the fluids from the father 696 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 2: exchange during sexual reproduction, are what give rise to biology, 697 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 2: what gives rise to life, and after that it just 698 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 2: becomes an embryo and starts growing. And the main rival 699 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 2: that epigenesis was Preformationism, which said that if you could 700 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 2: get a sample of your dad's and could zoom in 701 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 2: on an individual sperm cell, you would see a mini 702 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 2: version of yourself and that you that was just that 703 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 2: was deposited in your mom where you started to grow, 704 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 2: You came out of your mom, you kept growing until 705 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: you finally reached your adult size, but you were pre 706 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 2: formed even before you were conceived, and those were the 707 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 2: two rivals. But the cool thing about epigenesis is that 708 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 2: you could say epigenesis and spontaneous generation can coexist because 709 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 2: something spontaneously generate, like say crocodiles out of an exposed riverbank, 710 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 2: once they once they spontaneously generate, then they'll just start 711 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 2: reproducing biologically through epigenesis. 712 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. 713 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 2: Pretty interesting that Aristotle finally got one, right. 714 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,240 Speaker 1: That guy, Yeah, that guy. I like the Aristotle brand. 715 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 2: I had a really great time, and I know you did, 716 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 2: so I say we do a part two of this someday. 717 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: All right, we'll see. 718 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, as everyone's waiting for that, you can go 719 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 2: check out this House of Works article about things we 720 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 2: believe before the scientific method. And I think since I 721 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 2: said that, it's time for listener mail. 722 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I dug this one out. Jeez, this one's been 723 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: out there for a long time, so I'm just gonna say, 724 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: long time coming. Okay, Hey, guys, just listen to how 725 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,879 Speaker 1: conversion therapy doesn't work. Oh yeah, Joe, the listener got 726 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: on you. I guess this was another listener mail got 727 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: on to you about saying and historic and then you 728 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: started to doubt every H word. But the rule is 729 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: super simple, guys. As long as you know how things sound, 730 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: does the word start with a vowel sound? If the 731 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 1: answer is yes, then and is correct, it starts with 732 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: a consonant use a. So here's some examples. The Undertaker 733 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: tapped people out with a Hell's gate. I guess that's 734 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: a wrestling thing, Okay. The atomic leg drop is a 735 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: hul Cogan move. I like this guy. It was an 736 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: honor to have seen bray Wyatt's creativity on screen, and honor. 737 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: The pre show for this pay per view lasted an hour, 738 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: so n historic. It sounds snooty almost to say n historic, 739 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,919 Speaker 1: but it's true because you say it takes about an hour, 740 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 1: and that doesn't sound snooty. 741 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 2: No, But it depends on how much you emphasize the 742 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 2: H and historic, because most people don't say historic. It's historic, right, 743 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 2: whereas honor it's like that it starts with an oh, 744 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 2: like the H is silent. 745 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: Almost right, like if England and Henry Higgins is biking 746 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: to Yeah. Exactly, These examples, guys, brings me to the 747 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 1: request from my email, could you do a show in 748 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: pro wrestling? Nice and that is from Aviva. 749 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 2: Thanks a Viva. That was a great email, one of 750 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 2: the all time greats. I agree, and yes, we'll do 751 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 2: one on pro wrestling someday. We've done We've nibbled around 752 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 2: the edges, but we'll finally do one on just pro wrestling. 753 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. We did Mexican wrestling, right, Lucha liber. 754 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, we also did a live one on Andre the Giant. 755 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, so maybe not on pro wrestling then. 756 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 2: Well, if you want to be like a Viva and 757 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 2: take your shot at requesting an episode, you can do 758 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 2: that by sending us an email to Stuff Podcasts at 759 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio dot com. 760 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: You Know, Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 761 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 762 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.