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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From how stuff Works dot Com? Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly. Now, as most

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Speaker 1: of you all have probably picked up by now, Molly

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Speaker 1: and I write for a website called how stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. However, we are not owned by how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot Com. We're actually owned by company called Discovery

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Speaker 1: Communications that owns channels such as Discovery Channel, TLC, Animal

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Speaker 1: Planet and a channel you might not have heard of

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Speaker 1: called Investigation Discovery. And because we have this school Discovery

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Speaker 1: hook up, we were able to get a sneak peek

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Speaker 1: at a new show that's going to be on Investigation

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Speaker 1: Discovery this fall. It's called Facing Evil with Candice to Long,

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Speaker 1: and you got to interview candicet along herself. Yes, Candasa

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Speaker 1: Long was an FBI profiler who has been referred to

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Speaker 1: as the real Clarice from Silence of the Lamb. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Jodie Foster character, because she did do so much

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Speaker 1: work with the FBI and profiling And in this show,

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Speaker 1: she's gonna sit down and talk to women who have

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Speaker 1: killed and this is something we've touched on briefly in

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Speaker 1: our episode about the gender gap in crime UM, but

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Speaker 1: candas Long is going to take a much more in

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Speaker 1: depth look. And she gave us UM some sneak peaks

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Speaker 1: at what we can expect from this new show and

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Speaker 1: really developed this idea much further given the amount of

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Speaker 1: experience she has. So let's learn a little bit about

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Speaker 1: Candice too Long. We were excited to actually have the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to interview her because she has over forty years

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Speaker 1: of experience. So anyway, I don't I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get ahead of Candice. And I've

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Speaker 1: been reading her book, Special Agent by Candice to Long,

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Speaker 1: and it's her memoir of time in the FBI, and

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Speaker 1: she's been involved in some really, really cool stuff. So

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Speaker 1: this is a lady who who knows the mind of

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Speaker 1: a cremit. She does. And she started out as a

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Speaker 1: psychiatric nurse, as she will tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about right now. I was a psychiatric nurse for a

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Speaker 1: decade before the FBI. Before I went in the FBI.

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Speaker 1: In fact, when the FBI recruited me, I was head

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Speaker 1: nurse at the Institute of psychiatry in Chicago, and I

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Speaker 1: had been doing it for ten years. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things, I mean, the average day in the life

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Speaker 1: of a psychiatric nurse, and most of my career was

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Speaker 1: in maximum security. In an average eight hour day, you're

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Speaker 1: spending the vast majority of your time talking with your patients,

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Speaker 1: listening to your patients, dealing with their families, and you

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Speaker 1: see people at their absolute worst, and you hear unbelievable things.

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Speaker 1: You see things that happened to the I mean a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are victimized by other people end

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Speaker 1: up in psychiatric units, sometimes decades after the victimization. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes we would get people accused of really unspeakable crimes

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Speaker 1: into the psych unit for thirty days of observation and treatment. UM.

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Speaker 1: So by the time I was recruited by the FBI,

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Speaker 1: I had seen a lot and had learned a lot

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Speaker 1: about human nature, and in particular, UM, how to interview,

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Speaker 1: how to listen, UM, how to not um show the

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Speaker 1: horror on your face that you're feeling in your heart

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Speaker 1: after something someone told you. UM. In addition to that,

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Speaker 1: being able to and this is where the FBI helped

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Speaker 1: me years later, being able to discern a lie or

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Speaker 1: an untruth or a faulty memory or things like that. Now.

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Speaker 1: In her book, DeLong writes about how she was one

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Speaker 1: of the first female agents in the FBI. She writes

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Speaker 1: about some of the troubles she came across in terms

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Speaker 1: of discrimination, in terms of guys not quite ready to

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Speaker 1: accept her as their peer yet, and so it definitely

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Speaker 1: wasn't all smooth sailing in those early days in the FBI.

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Speaker 1: When I went to the FBI Academy back in night, um,

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Speaker 1: women were fairly new in UH in terms of being

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Speaker 1: special agents and therefore going to the academy, and um,

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Speaker 1: we weren't really all that welcome by everybody. A lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of the men considered us unwelcome gate crashers.

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Speaker 1: I think what got me through it was I was

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Speaker 1: raised with three brothers, no sisters. My father had been

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Speaker 1: a UH just gotten out of the navy World War two,

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Speaker 1: and my grandfather lived with it. I was raised in

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Speaker 1: a male dominated home and where there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of teasing and whatnot. So I learned to to not

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Speaker 1: be a victim, to to give it right back. And

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Speaker 1: I've got a good sense of humor, so that kind

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Speaker 1: of carried me through. I don't think the things that

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Speaker 1: happened to women and sub and also minorities at the

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Speaker 1: FBI and at the academy and then out in the field,

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Speaker 1: they just don't happen anymore. I didn't. I pretty much

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Speaker 1: stopped seeing that kind of nonsense the last ten years

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Speaker 1: of my career, and for young female agents that I

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Speaker 1: know now, I just don't hear those complaints at all

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Speaker 1: now since Candice de Long has so much experience and

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Speaker 1: she has profiled so many different types of criminals. I mean, Molly,

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Speaker 1: you know some some pretty high profile criminals that she's

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Speaker 1: gone after, right, Yeah, she was involved with the team

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Speaker 1: that brought down the UNI bomber, and she wasn't I

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Speaker 1: mean the cases she was involved, and she's tracked terrorists,

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Speaker 1: she's tracked rapists, she's tracked gangsters. I mean, reading her

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Speaker 1: book did give me the creeps a little bit, just

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Speaker 1: because there were a lot of criminals for Candisi longed

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Speaker 1: to take down. So, UM, I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to get someone to profile criminals on

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Speaker 1: investigation Discovery, she's your woman. She's related to do it.

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Speaker 1: So she's gonna tell us a little bit about Um,

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Speaker 1: what the show is about, and of types of interviews

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Speaker 1: that she's doing with these female criminals. All of that

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Speaker 1: came into play. By the time I sat down to

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Speaker 1: interview these women this past um, spring and summer, I

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Speaker 1: had about forty years of experience going for me, and

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Speaker 1: I think all of that really helped these women feel

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Speaker 1: calm and not threatened by me. And three of the

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Speaker 1: four of them had to be coaxed by me to

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Speaker 1: be on the show that I wasn't going to hurt them,

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Speaker 1: um and we weren't there to make them look bad,

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Speaker 1: That I was there to get to know them and

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Speaker 1: for the audience to get to know. How does a

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Speaker 1: nice yeah, what was once a nice girl with dreams

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Speaker 1: of of maybe becoming a nurse in one case, or

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Speaker 1: or a teacher um who gets a college education, who

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Speaker 1: falls in love with someone, how does she end up

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Speaker 1: on serving life in prison without parole? How did that happen?

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Speaker 1: Because the vast majority of cases that were present on

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Speaker 1: I think both shows Deadly Women and Facing Evil with

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Speaker 1: Candice along are women that that could be your neighbor.

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Speaker 1: These are not natural born killers, and that really echoes

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that we talked about Kristen when

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Speaker 1: we did do that Gender Gap and Crime podcast that

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Speaker 1: there are really differences and the reasons that men and

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Speaker 1: women go about committing crime, and this show is going

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Speaker 1: to focus specifically on women who kill. And of course

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Speaker 1: that appealed to Molly and me because we like to

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Speaker 1: you know, dissect women, you know, up down in sideways

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Speaker 1: and then and well and men too, But specifically, since

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Speaker 1: success to do with lady killers, we wanted or or

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Speaker 1: women who commit premeditated murder. More formally, we wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to Candice about any differences that she's noticed between

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Speaker 1: male and female killers. And these are murderers specifically that

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Speaker 1: she is talking about. And it's interesting because while there

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Speaker 1: are a couple of differences in the way that they

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Speaker 1: will carry out their crimes, there are also a lot

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Speaker 1: of similarities in terms of, I guess, kind of how

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Speaker 1: they mentally process the whole thing. So here's Candice on

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Speaker 1: the difference between male and female killers. When women kill

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Speaker 1: um the for the for the most part, yes, there's exceptions,

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Speaker 1: but when women kill, especially premeditated um murder, it is

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Speaker 1: the murder itself is is just something that has to

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Speaker 1: be done to get to where they want to be.

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Speaker 1: It's a means to an end, and they don't necessarily be.

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Speaker 1: Part of being a sociopath also known as psychopath, also

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Speaker 1: known as antisocial personality disorder, basically someone who has no

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Speaker 1: empathy for others and they tend to be users and abusers.

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Speaker 1: But one of the characteristics of that particular personality disorder,

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Speaker 1: if you're a sociopath, is these people start lying when

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Speaker 1: they're about three or four years old. They will lie

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Speaker 1: when the truth is easier. They are the little kid

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Speaker 1: that mom hears a noise in the kitchen. She goes

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen. The kid is standing on a step stool,

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Speaker 1: arm in the cookie jart down to its elbow and

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Speaker 1: Mom says, I told you you couldn't have a kid cookie.

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Speaker 1: And the kid turns around with raisins and chocolate cromebs

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Speaker 1: on his face and says, I'm not. They lie. They

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Speaker 1: start lying as kids. And now if a mom laughs

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Speaker 1: at that, and I admit, that's pretty funny. Um, you

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Speaker 1: just bought the kid there next lie because you're reinforced

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Speaker 1: it by by laughing. So those are the differences between

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Speaker 1: how men and women commit a murder. Now, someone like

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Speaker 1: Candas is going to get involved when obviously they're trying

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Speaker 1: to track this person down, and she would be involved

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Speaker 1: with creating a profile of who this person is and

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Speaker 1: I'm finding that person. Now, I think we all want

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Speaker 1: to know, is there is there a gender that's going

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Speaker 1: to be more likely to be caught out for their

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Speaker 1: crimes If you're in there in the police station facing

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Speaker 1: the questioning, someone's pulling the good cop, bad cop anya,

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Speaker 1: who's more likely to crack? Who's doing a better job

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Speaker 1: at holding up an alibi? So we asked Candice A Long,

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Speaker 1: who's the better liar when it comes to these criminals,

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Speaker 1: men or women? And interestingly, you know, with this kind

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Speaker 1: of pathology, it really doesn't come down to gender. It's

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Speaker 1: all about just the mind of a psychopath. So let's

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Speaker 1: hear her on this lying behavior for a sociopath is

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Speaker 1: it makes them feel momentarily superior to others. They actually

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Speaker 1: believe a couple of things when they tell a line.

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Speaker 1: Number one, well, they believe a few things. Number one

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Speaker 1: is I'm gonna lie to you and you're gonna believe me.

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Speaker 1: The reason you're gonna be believe me is I'm very

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Speaker 1: good at lying and you're stupid. That's what they believe.

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Speaker 1: So when they tell a lie, Hey honey, I told

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Speaker 1: you couldn't have a cookie, I'm not having a cookie.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that your arm in the cookie jar? No? And

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Speaker 1: then they just get up and walk away. Um, they

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Speaker 1: believe there's this sense of ego that they are superior

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Speaker 1: to us stupid people, and therefore you will buy what

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Speaker 1: they say. Now, Also when it comes to motivations, seems

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Speaker 1: like from what Candice told us, there is one big

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Speaker 1: theme that drives both male and female killers, and that

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Speaker 1: is love. Love combined with different facets like money. How

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Speaker 1: many people are involved in a love triangle? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love rectangle. Yeah. If if Candice so long, we're to

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Speaker 1: offer you any kind of relationship advice, it would be

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Speaker 1: stay away from love triangles. Sometimes you don't know if

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Speaker 1: you're in a love trianingle, right not, and then you

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Speaker 1: end up dead. So before Chris and I just get

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Speaker 1: to to wound up thinking about it. For possibly in

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Speaker 1: love triangles we don't know about. Here's Candice de long Room.

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Speaker 1: Of a hundred female killers in it, um, the vast

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Speaker 1: majority killed someone for money for profit. Um. Now some

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Speaker 1: of them may kill because husband has a life insurance

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Speaker 1: policy of five million, and some of them will kill

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Speaker 1: because they want their boyfriend's motorcycle. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: broad spectrum of of what one would consider the riches

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Speaker 1: or the spoils of a murder. That's the that's the

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Speaker 1: real common reason. UM. The number one motivator of murder

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Speaker 1: in general, male or female is jealousy, romantic jealousy. And

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Speaker 1: that is when we tend to get into your um

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Speaker 1: cases where you have uh, love triangles where someone has

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Speaker 1: been sholted. But if love triangles are dangerous for all

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Speaker 1: three people every If if you're in a love triangle

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Speaker 1: and some people are in a love triangle and don't

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Speaker 1: know it, usually one party in the love triangle does

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Speaker 1: person who's being cheated upon, and their life could be

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Speaker 1: in danger. The person who is cheating on their partner's

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Speaker 1: life may be in danger by two other people, and

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Speaker 1: then the person the third party's life may be in danger.

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Speaker 1: If so, there's all this crazy stuff. In fact, I

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Speaker 1: wrote an article for Cosmo magazine a few years ago

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Speaker 1: about this very fan thing. So jealous that romantic jealousy

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Speaker 1: is is a very strong motivator. Now, of course, since

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Speaker 1: we're talking about women who kill, you have to talk

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Speaker 1: about the subset of women killers lady killers, and that

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Speaker 1: is mothers who kill their children. And I think, Molly,

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Speaker 1: if there's any type of murder that is maybe that

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Speaker 1: maybe attracts more public outrage, it is mothers who kill

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Speaker 1: their children, because it's like it's it's something that the

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Speaker 1: public just doesn't grasp, you know, because we it's it

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Speaker 1: goes completely against this idea of the nurturing caregiver. And

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Speaker 1: one case in particular that we brought up with Candice

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Speaker 1: DeLong wasn't Andrea Yeates case. And if you don't remember,

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Speaker 1: this is where this mother who had mental problems drowned

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Speaker 1: five of her children in two thousand one, and it just,

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Speaker 1: you know, the press surrounding this case. I still remember it.

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Speaker 1: Just like you said, Kristen, it was people just could

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Speaker 1: not fathom that this would happen. And like you said, Kristen,

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Speaker 1: people just could not fathom that this would happen. And

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Speaker 1: so in talking about mothers who killed their children and

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Speaker 1: their motivations and the concept of mental illness, Candice Alonge

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Speaker 1: had this to say, mother's killing kids um more often

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Speaker 1: it's not the Andrea Yates um. Although schizophrenics UM. It's

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Speaker 1: shortly after the Andrea Yates case. A woman here in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, AH, young woman in her twenties, had three

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Speaker 1: little kids, untreated schizophrenia, and she kept having kids. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And one evening, a beautiful summer evening here, she went

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Speaker 1: down to the bay and one by one took her

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Speaker 1: kids out of the car and just dropped them in

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Speaker 1: the water and they drowned. With watching, you know, because

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Speaker 1: when people see stuff like that, they tend to know

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Speaker 1: it doesn't register. They can't believe their eyes, and by

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Speaker 1: the time they're moved into action, it's too late. Um.

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Speaker 1: So here was a case of a woman with with

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Speaker 1: once again I don't know her exact reason, um, but

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Speaker 1: untreated schizophrenia. It's dangerous for schizophrenics to be raising children. Um.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's the unusual type of murders that The

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Speaker 1: more common type of murders are when mother murder. Mothers

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Speaker 1: murder their kids is their kids have become inconvenient and

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Speaker 1: they don't want them around. For example, I we've all

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Speaker 1: we all know about the Suzanne Smith case. You know,

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Speaker 1: she was bed hopping um. Her life was not her image,

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Speaker 1: her her ego required the sexual attention of a man

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Speaker 1: pretty much at all times. And she wanted to date

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Speaker 1: a guy at work that didn't want anything to do

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Speaker 1: with her because he wrote her letters that I don't

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Speaker 1: want to ready made family. And she took those two

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Speaker 1: beautiful little boys, strapped him in their car seats, and

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Speaker 1: uh sent the car into the lake and then went

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Speaker 1: called the police and said a black guy came and

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Speaker 1: took her car and her kids, and then it all

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Speaker 1: fall apart. A year, a year, a month later, was

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Speaker 1: she mentally ill? You know what I don't understand is

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Speaker 1: why didn't she just call her epso husband and say

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Speaker 1: I don't want the kids anymore, you take them. What

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Speaker 1: I don't understand and what I think is a fascinating subject.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes we have discussed this on the show. Is

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Speaker 1: that would be the easy thing. But there's a motivation

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Speaker 1: behind why women don't do that, And it all has

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Speaker 1: to do with making themselves look like a victim to

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Speaker 1: the world. UM murderers easier van being seen as a

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Speaker 1: mother who doesn't want her own kids. And our society

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Speaker 1: does that, you know, our society, You know what that's

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Speaker 1: one of the worst things our side. Oh mother doesn't

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Speaker 1: love her kids, doesn't want to raise your kids. A

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Speaker 1: horrible person. Horrible person. So sometimes we see these mothers

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Speaker 1: killing their own kids because, um, it's a way of

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Speaker 1: getting what they want, which is not to be a

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Speaker 1: mother and sympathy from the community. Oh my gosh, a

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Speaker 1: big bad boogeyman came and took her kids. Oh don't

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Speaker 1: we feel badly for her? You know. So there's all

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Speaker 1: kinds of all kinds of reasons in there, and they're

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Speaker 1: all fascinating, I think so. Now listening to Candice de

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Speaker 1: Long describe the Anda Andrea Yates case, it really reminded

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Speaker 1: me of when we did our podcast on female criminals

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Speaker 1: before Kristen, because we talked about how you can find

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Speaker 1: sort of a reason or a motivation in these women's

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Speaker 1: past and it's not an excuse per se, because they're

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Speaker 1: still doing crimes, but there is usually something that kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like an asterix next to the act

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Speaker 1: and reminding you how women can end up doing this.

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Speaker 1: And so we asked her to elaborate a little bit

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Speaker 1: more on the role of mental illness in this case.

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Speaker 1: In a really compassionate society. We do not execute mentally

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Speaker 1: on the mentally retarded when they commit a crime, as

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Speaker 1: horrible as crimes are. But the Andrew's problem, and and

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Speaker 1: and other people that have killed their children, whether they're

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Speaker 1: related to the person or not, whether it's a stranger

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Speaker 1: that comes out and grabs a little girl and drives

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Speaker 1: off with her and rapes her and murders her. I

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Speaker 1: just described a case I worked when I was a

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Speaker 1: young agent or uh, and Andrew Yates type of child

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Speaker 1: murder um. The problem is the public. The community wants

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Speaker 1: revenge when a child is murdered. The public wants someone

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Speaker 1: to pay for it, and it's probably going to be

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Speaker 1: whoever is sitting at the descendants table, whether they did

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Speaker 1: it or not. Of course, there's no dispute that Andrea

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Speaker 1: Yates killed her kids. After she did, she called the

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Speaker 1: police and said, you need to come over. I killed

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Speaker 1: the kids. And she called her husband, Honey, you need

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Speaker 1: to come home. I just killed the kids. She didn't

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Speaker 1: try to hide it because she believed what she did

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Speaker 1: was the right thing to do to save the children.

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Speaker 1: For Jesus, Jesus, so um, I don't think Andrews should

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Speaker 1: be walking around and I don't think if she ever

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Speaker 1: gets out that she should be put in charge of

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Speaker 1: a monetary school. Her delusion delusions that schizophrenics have, they

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Speaker 1: have in their whole life. So is the general public

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Speaker 1: safe from Andrea Yates? Worked she to be released, Yes,

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Speaker 1: as long as you're not a child, Because the rest

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Speaker 1: of Andrea's life, even with medication, she's still going to

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Speaker 1: believe that she's a bad mother, that she's a bad

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Speaker 1: influence on little children. The devil will get them unless

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Speaker 1: she sends them to heaven. And that's just the way

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Speaker 1: delusions are. And speaking of Andrea Yates, we wanted um

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Speaker 1: Candice along to elaborate more on this idea of the

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Speaker 1: postpartum defense because it's something that we've seen come up

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Speaker 1: more often in higher profile cases of mothers killing their children.

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Speaker 1: And um we also wanted to know how the psychiatric

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Speaker 1: defenses play a role as well, because once you you know,

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Speaker 1: and you throw mental illness into the mix, you know,

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Speaker 1: if someone is compelled because of schizophrenia, say to murder someone,

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Speaker 1: should they be um you know, should they be up

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Speaker 1: for say execution of some sort. I mean, it just

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Speaker 1: starts to pull in some pretty tricky questions for for

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice system. So this is what kinda still

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Speaker 1: long has to say about that we are seeing more

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Speaker 1: people use psychiatric defenses. But here's the big clue, and

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Speaker 1: and this is where my clinical background comes in. The

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Speaker 1: vast majority of people that are mentally ill do not

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Speaker 1: commit violent crimes when or murder in particular, when they do,

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Speaker 1: there is a clear, visible, longstanding history of mental illness

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Speaker 1: that is generally documented. People that suffer from schizop prenia,

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Speaker 1: it usually surfaces and they have their first psychotic break

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Speaker 1: or psychotic postpartum depression in this case, in their late

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Speaker 1: teens early twenties, and untreated it can grow. And so

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Speaker 1: generally we don't see teenage schizophrenics committing committing horrible crimes,

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Speaker 1: but we see schizophrenics in their late twenties and early thirties.

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Speaker 1: If they are going to be compelled to commit some

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Speaker 1: kind of horrible crime, and Andrey Yates isn't the only

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Speaker 1: one that did this kind of thing, then we generally

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Speaker 1: see that after they've been in and out of psych facilities,

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Speaker 1: there's a long documented paper trail of their illness. And

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Speaker 1: so if somebody decides they just don't want to be

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Speaker 1: a mom anymore that their two kids. We have another

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Speaker 1: South Carolina case last week of a woman that killed

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Speaker 1: her two kids in a lake. Um uh, And they go, oh,

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Speaker 1: I add a depression or you know, well, chances are

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Speaker 1: unless it's documented, and depression does on occasion lead mothers

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Speaker 1: to kill children and then themselves. We've we've even had

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Speaker 1: cases on on deadly women of mothers that did this. Um.

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Speaker 1: But psychosis is a whole different thing. So what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying is as a prosecutor, it's gonna be evey easy

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Speaker 1: to determine if the person's lying or not. For a

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Speaker 1: defense attorney, it will be easy to determine if they

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Speaker 1: actually do have a history of mental illness and and does.

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Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to misunderstand me. I don't think

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Speaker 1: people that are mentally ill that commit murders should be

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Speaker 1: out walking around. But they certainly shouldn't be in rison

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Speaker 1: in prison being beaten and abused and raped and mistreated

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Speaker 1: when it was their mental illness, which is an affliction.

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Speaker 1: It absolutely is an affliction, and and they should be

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Speaker 1: in a they should be in a maximum security psychiatric facility,

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Speaker 1: or at least they'll be able to get medication and

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Speaker 1: maybe won't be beaten and raped for the rest of

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Speaker 1: their life. So obviously, for someone like DeLong, who has

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Speaker 1: forty years of experience, when she sits down and talks

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Speaker 1: to these female killers, these convicted killers for the show

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Speaker 1: coming up on an investigation discovery, you know, there has

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Speaker 1: to be so she has to look at them so

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Speaker 1: differently than maybe you or I would, Molly. She has

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Speaker 1: to understand all of this background of potential mental illness

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Speaker 1: and the slippery slope that can happen sometimes for people

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Speaker 1: to end up, you know, from the good girl, if

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Speaker 1: you will, to all of a sudden the convicted criminal.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like she really takes a more empathetic

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Speaker 1: view of them. And perhaps even just by virtue of

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Speaker 1: her being a woman sitting down and talking to a woman,

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Speaker 1: there are certain shared experiences that might play into it.

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Speaker 1: So Candice talked to us a little bit about how

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Speaker 1: empathy can come into profiling and interviewing the women on

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Speaker 1: the show. Even though I may shake my head and

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Speaker 1: say to myself, there this doesn't make sense that such

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Speaker 1: a smart woman could be led by a man and

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Speaker 1: and and convinced by him to kill his wife. This woman,

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Speaker 1: this is a smart woman. Why would she do that?

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Speaker 1: You know? And uh, well, I can love the funny

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Speaker 1: thing ladies. So I do feel I do feel empathy.

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Speaker 1: And and in particular the woman in UM Australia UM

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Speaker 1: that served time for killing her father, when you hear

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Speaker 1: her whole story, you'll have empathy too. This is not

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Speaker 1: an evil woman. This is a woman that was led

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Speaker 1: to that was compelled to do an evil thing. Andrea Yates,

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Speaker 1: let's look at that for a minute. The probably the

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Speaker 1: most famous um postpartum depression psychosis case in the United States,

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Speaker 1: for sure, drowned all our children. It was about nine

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Speaker 1: years ago this summer. Drowned all our children one by one.

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Speaker 1: She was compelled to do that evil thing because she

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Speaker 1: of an untreated mental illness, and she was delusional and

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Speaker 1: she really believed she was sending her children to Jesus,

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Speaker 1: so the double wouldn't get them. I worked with people

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Speaker 1: that think like that as a nurse that schizophrenia. UM.

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Speaker 1: So here you've got this horrible, evil deed. And the

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Speaker 1: first prosecutor on the case wanted a needle in her arm,

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Speaker 1: when in fact she was compelled to do what she

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Speaker 1: did because of mental illness. So it was an evil deed.

430
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: But is she an evil person or I don't think so. Now.

431
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: The interesting thing was, as part of as part of

432
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: these interviews, Candice Long mentioned that there was this one

433
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: Australian case. There's one case that she profiles on the

434
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: show where she said sound talks to this Australian woman

435
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: who was convicted of murder, and she said it was

436
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: the most fascinating interview that she has done in forty

437
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: years of work profiling criminals. So we thought that this

438
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: would be the perfect way to end the podcast. Let

439
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: Candice um tease to this pretty pretty powerful interview from

440
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: what she has to say about it. Well, when you

441
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: see her story, she's thirty now. Um, she serves six

442
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: years in prison for solicitate solicitation of the murder of

443
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: her father, UM, who was murdered by her um uh

444
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: then um boyfriend when when they were I think, uh, seventeen.

445
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: But there is a uh catch. I suppose you might

446
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: say children that kill parents with rare exception, we do

447
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: have the Menendez brothers types in the world that that

448
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: would be known as a nihilistic killing. There was really

449
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: no good reason at all for those boys to do

450
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: what they did. Uh, they wanted the money. But with

451
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: rare exception, when children kill parents, or a child kills

452
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: a parent, um and and that child is, you know,

453
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: in their teens or adolescents, you can almost always look

454
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: into the background and you will find severe abuse, emotional, physical,

455
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,239
Speaker 1: and and and frequently sexual as well. So by the

456
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: time the viewer understands what this what happened to this woman,

457
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: By the time she sat down with me, and at

458
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: this point she's been released from prison for several years, um,

459
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: you have a real clear understanding of of what her

460
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: her background was like and what led up to um

461
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: the murder. And she when I'm very proud of the

462
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: fact is she was so comfortable with me that I

463
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: don't want to tell you you You're just gonna have

464
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: to watch it. Uh. She was so comfortable with me

465
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: that she said some rather incredible things, things that I've

466
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: never seen anyone say on television before. And she's also

467
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: a very likable person. I liked her a lot. She's

468
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: not a natural born killer. She um uh found herself

469
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: in ongoing circumstances that all led to a situation. And uh,

470
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: it is what it is, and it's absolutely fascinating. So

471
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: that was the bulcome our interview with Candice DeLong and uh,

472
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: I didn't hear much from us this episode. But when

473
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: you've got someone's fascinating as Candice along on the other

474
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: end of the line, you want to learn as much

475
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: as you can about about these lady killers as we've

476
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: dubbed them. Yeah, let us know what you thought. I mean,

477
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: I think it was a pretty fascinating conversation and something

478
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: she said some things that I didn't expect her to

479
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: say either, So we'd love to hear your feedback as well.

480
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot

481
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: com and don't forget to tune into Facing Evil with

482
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: Candice de Long. It airs Thursday November Friday November at

483
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: ten pm each night on Investigation Discovery. It sounds like

484
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: perfect Thanksgiving viewing. Indeed, just some some light television viewing

485
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: about serial killers. So in the meantime, let's read some

486
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: listener mail. Now wait, wait, wait, Christen, before we get

487
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: into listener mail, jump too soon. We've got a pretty

488
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: cool announcement we need to go over about the app

489
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: that how stuff works to com. That's right, how self

490
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: Works dot Com has a brand new app that you

491
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: can download on your iPhone, you can access how stef

492
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: works dot com articles, videos, blogs, and of course the podcast.

493
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: You know, because if we haven't saturated your life enough,

494
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: we need to make sure we're there whenever you're on

495
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: the go, so we ever have to leave home without us.

496
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: So download that app. Check it out. I mean there

497
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: might be some I don't know, maybe some pictures of

498
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: you and me, Molly. I don't want to promise anything,

499
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: but you'll have to find up for yourself. So download

500
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: the app how So Fast dot COM's new iPhone app,

501
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: And now we can get back to listener mail. And

502
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: this email is from Laura. It's from the Do Men

503
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: and Women Cook Differently? Episode? And Laura writes, I'm a

504
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: mom to one boy and one girl. Early on, with

505
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: no prodding for me or their dad, I knows the

506
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: kids treating their gender neutral play kitchen differently. My daughter

507
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: cooked meals with the primary focus being to get food

508
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: in front of her multitude of dolls and babies. She

509
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: fed them and cleaned them and busted them for throwing

510
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: food on the floor. For her food was nurturing. My son, however,

511
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: cooked grandiose meals with multiple courses and plenty of spice

512
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: and flourish. Some of the combinations he came up with

513
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: for dishes sounded good enough to eat even if they

514
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: were rendered in plastic, even now in their tween years.

515
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: My daughter is at heart a parent and teacher, and

516
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: when she cooks for real these days, it's mom food.

517
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: My son, a scientists to the core, is interested in

518
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: the chemistry and flavor and presentation of each dish. So

519
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: very interesting to hear how those gender differences can take

520
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: hold early. All right, I've got one here from Diana,

521
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: and she is writing in response to our episode on

522
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: Chinese foot binding, and she makes courses. She's been doing

523
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: it for seventeen years, and she wanted to point out

524
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: that while yes, course at wearing and footbinding have some similarities,

525
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: and that they both are practices that many of us

526
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: find unusual today, she says the similarities stop there. She

527
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: says mostly wearing was often only a daytime practice, and

528
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: the course it would be removed during sleep and bathing,

529
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: allowing the body some rest instead of being constricted all

530
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: day long every day. Most courses were not were very

531
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,959
Speaker 1: tightly at all, but a few women did enjoy cinching

532
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: it as small as possible. Before the Industrial Revolution, most

533
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: corsets were custom made to measure, and we're very comfortable

534
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: to wear with little health problems as a result. With

535
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: a properly custom crafted corset, women could achieve incredibly tiny

536
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: waists with little discomfort or ill health. Off the rat

537
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: corsets that were sold according to desired waste size alone

538
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: caused problems from many women like discomfort, shortness of breath,

539
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: and even some broken ribs. She says, courses are still

540
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: worn today, a great deal for both extreme tight lacing

541
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: and moderate wear by men and women, and as always,

542
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: custom is safer and more comfortable. So thank you Diana

543
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: the corset maker. That's fascinating. Didn't even realize that that

544
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: was a profession stone Perhaps the follow up podcast, So

545
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: keep your emails coming. It's mom Stuff at how stuff

546
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: works dot com. Or you can share your thoughts with

547
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: other listeners as well on our Facebook page, and then

548
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: you can follow us on Twitter. It's mom Stuff podcast.

549
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: And then finally we got a little blog and it's

550
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: called stuff I Never told you, and it's a how

551
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands

552
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff works dot com?

553
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: Want more? How stuff Works. Check out our blogs on

554
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: the house stuff works dot com home page. Brought to

555
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready,

556
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:40,360
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