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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck,

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Speaker 2: and there's Jerry. And this could not be more of

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Speaker 2: a good old-fashioned Stuff You Should Know episode if it tried.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I think you're right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Think about all the elements here. All three of

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Speaker 2: us are present.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: I just had a kind of an awkward intro. Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: This is the main topic that we've done like five

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Speaker 2: subtopics on already, but we didn't do the main topic yet.

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Speaker 2: This is a straight ahead stuff you should know classic episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And watch this. I'm going to have a little

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Speaker 1: surprise for you in the audience. You ready? Yeah. All right.

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Speaker 1: It is 101 on the dot. I was having a

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Speaker 1: dream six minutes ago.

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Speaker 2: Oh, really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What was it?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, but I scheduled my nap to

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Speaker 1: happen right before we recorded, which I do sometimes. And

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Speaker 1: I have my clock set for 1255. And it was

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Speaker 1: kind of one of those naps where I was like,

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Speaker 1: am I even sleeping or am I just getting good rest?

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Speaker 1: I can't tell if I'm asleep. And then I could

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Speaker 1: tell I was having a dream and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden my alarm went off. And I woke up, splashed

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Speaker 1: my face, came down, and here you are.

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Speaker 2: Are you sure you're not still dreaming? Have you done

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Speaker 2: a reality test? Oh, no.

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Speaker 1: That's a good call.

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Speaker 2: Because you could still be dreaming. I don't feel quite right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't remember the dream. But when I woke up,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this will be funny because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be recording in five minutes and everyone's probably

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Speaker 1: going to be knocked out by the fact that I

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Speaker 1: was literally just dreaming minutes ago.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure they will. I'm sure they will. Even more impressive,

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Speaker 2: Jerry is dreaming now.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah. I woke up, she fell asleep.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, we're talking about dreams. Chuck, do you typically

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Speaker 2: have dreams? Do you often remember them? Do you never

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Speaker 2: remember them? Are they nightmares? What's the deal?

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Speaker 1: No nightmares. I used to have recurring dreams when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid.

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Speaker 2: About what?

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Speaker 1: I had a very specific recurring dream about Gilligan's Island

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Speaker 1: many times when I was a kid. That was a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a scary dream. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: would qualify as a nightmare per definition.

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Speaker 2: I could see Lovey Howell being like drunk, like being

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Speaker 2: overly friendly, doing that to you as a kid.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I still remember, like I remembered

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Speaker 1: my dream this morning when I woke up because I

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Speaker 1: woke up right after it happened. And it was kind

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Speaker 1: of a funny thing Emily did in the dream. So

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Speaker 1: I was like, I just had this dream. It was

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Speaker 1: kind of funny.

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Speaker 2: Can you share or?

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Speaker 1: Oh, sure. I mean, people sharing dreams is the most

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Speaker 1: boring thing ever. So, yeah, I'll give the most condensed

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Speaker 1: version is we were in New York going to some

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Speaker 1: some weird exclusive like art opening event or something interactive.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what it was. It doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: And there were celebrities there. And we went in a

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Speaker 1: few times because we figured out there was a back

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Speaker 1: way to get in. And when we walked in, we

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Speaker 1: were walking by people and Emily was like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: think that's that girl. from that movie. What was it?

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Speaker 1: And I was trying to find out. And then we

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Speaker 1: passed Rachel Dratch, actor Rachel Dratch.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: And she looked up because she thought like they were talking,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about her and Emily went, oh, not you.

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Speaker 1: I know you, Stephanie. And one kept walking.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty good dream, actually. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I told Emily that she just cracked up.

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Speaker 2: Rachel Dratch, man. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She's the best.

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Speaker 2: That's out of nowhere. She is great.

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Speaker 1: Um, What about you? Or go ahead. What's your question?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, have you seen the movie?

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Speaker 2: I don't remember what it's called, but where Nicolas Cage

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Speaker 2: starts appearing in like everyone in the world's dream.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen that yet. I heard it's pretty good.

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Speaker 2: It is. It's actually really good. Especially as far as like,

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Speaker 2: you know, a standard Nick Cage movie these days goes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, there's a lot of them. What about you?

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Speaker 1: Do you dream and remember your dreams typically?

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Speaker 2: I dream and I remember them enough to... to just

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Speaker 2: kind of give like general outlines of them or know

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Speaker 2: that like that was unpleasant or that was stressful or

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Speaker 2: that was weird. But you know, like I have such

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Speaker 2: trouble like relating thoughts and ideas normally that when I

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Speaker 2: try to do it with dream stuff, it makes it,

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Speaker 2: it's just a big mess. So I'm not even going

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Speaker 2: to try, but they very frequently have to do with

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Speaker 2: like me having to like, um, Get get this thing

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Speaker 2: done over here and then this thing has to be

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Speaker 2: done over here. And I also have to make sure

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Speaker 2: that all these people are comfortable, too. It's like it

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Speaker 2: can get kind of tiring sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I sort of have the same thing. My most

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Speaker 1: recurring dream now isn't a specific thing, but it's a

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Speaker 1: specific motif, which is I'm trying to get somewhere and

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Speaker 1: I can't get there.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I could see that.

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Speaker 1: Like a plane flight or I'm supposed to be at

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Speaker 1: a place or whatever, and I keep getting derailed. And

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Speaker 1: that happens. I had that dream all the time now.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that is extremely interesting. I think that's worth looking into.

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Speaker 2: So we'll revisit that because it comes up in a

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Speaker 2: couple of places. Like you just tapped a couple of

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Speaker 2: different dream components on the head with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then when I was younger, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: start the show, I used to always have the– And

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Speaker 1: this is like in my 20s, the teeth shattering or

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Speaker 1: teeth falling out dreams.

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Speaker 2: Okay. We'll talk about that too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The last one I have to share, it's a recurring dream.

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Speaker 2: It starts out really nice. It's a beautiful woman, totally naked.

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Speaker 2: And then as I look up higher and higher, it's

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Speaker 2: the head of Abraham Lincoln.

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Speaker 1: You should just, I don't know, don't go all the

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Speaker 1: way to the head.

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Speaker 2: Do you get the reference, though, from Dazed and Confused? No.

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Speaker 1: I do remember that, though, now that you mention it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the friends is like, probably best not to

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Speaker 2: look too deeply into that one.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Anthony Rapp in that scene. That's right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, I've never had that dream. That would be

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Speaker 2: pretty weird, you know?

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Speaker 1: I bought it because I'm just still waking up, you know? Sure.

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Speaker 2: Um, so Charles, we're talking about dreaming and you can't

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Speaker 2: really talk about dreaming unless you talk about sleeping. So

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Speaker 2: let's do a brief overview. We've done a bunch of

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Speaker 2: episodes on sleep, so we'll just kind of keep it short.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, as far as the stages of sleep, you're right. We've,

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Speaker 1: we've covered this a lot, but the first three stages

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Speaker 1: are non rapid eye movement, sleep in REM sleep. And

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Speaker 1: then after stage three, and it depends on the person,

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Speaker 1: but you know, about an hour and a half or

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Speaker 1: two hours after you go to sleep, uh, you're, supposed

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Speaker 1: to fall into REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep. And

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Speaker 1: this is where generally you're going to be dreaming. And

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Speaker 1: they used to think you only dream during REM sleep,

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Speaker 1: but now they know that you can dream in both.

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Speaker 1: But REM sleep is like where you have like the

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Speaker 1: most intense dreams, the ones you're more likely to remember,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And we didn't really know about REM sleep until

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Speaker 2: the 50s. I was surprised to find that out. But

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Speaker 2: when we did discover REM sleep, people are like, oh, OK,

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Speaker 2: there's different components to sleep. We need to start looking

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Speaker 2: into that. Your body does all sorts of interesting things.

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Speaker 2: But the one really important aspect about REM sleep is

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Speaker 2: in addition to like this is where you have your dreams, dreams,

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Speaker 2: you are paralyzed, essentially. And they think the reason why

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Speaker 2: is so you don't act out your dreams physically because

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Speaker 2: you're experiencing them as reality otherwise. And that it's possible

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Speaker 2: that your eyes are moving during rapid eye movement sleep

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Speaker 2: because you're dreaming. They thought for a long time that

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Speaker 2: you were looking at different things in your dreams with

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Speaker 2: your eyes in physical reality while you were sleeping. And

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Speaker 2: they just couldn't prove it. And there were a couple

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Speaker 2: of studies that were like, Actually, I think that's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think they... They didn't prove it, though,

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Speaker 1: did they?

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Speaker 2: No, but... So, like, they cracked open the heads of

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Speaker 2: poor little mice, and they figured out how to look

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Speaker 2: at what they call basically the eye directional cells, and

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Speaker 2: they found that they were in sync with where the

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Speaker 2: mouse's eyes were looking at any point during REM sleep.

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Speaker 2: Strongly suggests that.

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Speaker 1: What did the mice say about what they were dreaming about?

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Speaker 2: They just said... Okay. They're like a beaker from the Muppets,

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Speaker 2: it turns out.

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Speaker 1: Oh, beaker. I love beaker.

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Speaker 2: And then the other study that I think it was

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Speaker 2: really interesting was they got with some lucid dreamers and

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Speaker 2: they said, hey, we want you to, in your dream,

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Speaker 2: we want you to imagine you're looking at a circle.

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Speaker 2: And then we want you to trace a circle with

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Speaker 2: your thumb and look at that in your dreams. And

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Speaker 2: the lucid dreamers were so good, they were able to

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Speaker 2: do this. And they found that when the lucid dreamers

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Speaker 2: were imagining the circle in their dreams, their eyes moved

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Speaker 2: in kind of a stuttery step movement in the circle

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Speaker 2: that we would normally see when someone was awake and

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Speaker 2: imagining it. When they looked at their thumb, their dream thumb,

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Speaker 2: their eyes moved smoothly like it does in waking life

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Speaker 2: when we're actually looking at something.

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Speaker 1: Your dream thumb.

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Speaker 2: Dream Thumb's pretty, there's something there. We've said a lot

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Speaker 2: of dumb things over the years, but Dream Thumb's up there. Thanks, man.

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Speaker 1: I love it. As far as how, like, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk a lot about dreams and whether or not

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Speaker 1: everyone dreams. And we don't know for sure, like, they

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Speaker 1: think everyone dreams. Sure. And that some people just may

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Speaker 1: not remember as well as others. And we'll kind of

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Speaker 1: dig into that a little bit. But they do think...

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Speaker 1: that people generally dream multiple times a night. Um, they

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Speaker 1: don't know exactly how long they last. And, you know,

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Speaker 1: the reason why obviously all this stuff is, is because

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Speaker 1: someone's asleep and, you know, you can't do a study

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Speaker 1: where someone like hits a timer when a dream starts,

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Speaker 1: they can just kind of go by hooking them up

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Speaker 1: to machines and surmising whether or not they're dreaming. Right.

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Speaker 1: So you can't get like actual, you know, dead evidence

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Speaker 1: about it. But they do think you dream multiple times

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Speaker 1: a night and they last a few minutes, maybe up

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Speaker 1: to a half an hour. And they think you probably

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Speaker 1: dream a couple of hours a night.

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Speaker 2: That's surprising because I've always heard like dreams last like

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Speaker 2: just a few seconds.

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Speaker 1: They seem like they last hours.

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Speaker 2: Which would actually explain the rapid eye movement. Like if

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Speaker 2: we're doing that while we're dreaming, we're moving back and forth,

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Speaker 2: that would suggest that our dreams are happening in much

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Speaker 2: faster time than real waking time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm basically a dream researcher now.

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Speaker 1: As far as, you know, dream theory, you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: we have to mention Freud. I kind of honestly get

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Speaker 1: tired of mentioning Freud now because I feel like every

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Speaker 1: time we mention Freud, we then say, But no one

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Speaker 1: really believes that anymore.

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Speaker 2: Well, the very fact that we consider dreams to conceivably

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Speaker 2: be symbolic and try be trying to tell us something

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Speaker 2: that in and of itself is the influence of Freud

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Speaker 2: that still lasts today. So there's even though a lot

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Speaker 2: of this stuff seems crackpot, there's like the basis of

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Speaker 2: it is is still applicable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the solution I came to as well,

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Speaker 1: which is like he birthed a lot of ideas. Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: And that maybe is his value these days.

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Speaker 2: Birthed him right out of his sphincter.

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Speaker 1: But of course, Freud was like, hey, none of this

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Speaker 1: stuff is an accident. If you're having dreams, that means

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Speaker 1: that you are living out some repressed desire that you

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Speaker 1: can't act on in regular life. Probably, obviously, because it's Freud,

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Speaker 1: probably a sexual desire. Carl Jung came around and said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I sort of agree completely. philosophically to a certain degree

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Speaker 1: with you, my teacher, I guess. Yeah. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's like a primal need and something that's repressed.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just like us reflecting on ourselves and

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Speaker 1: maybe even trying to work through like problems that we

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Speaker 1: may have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So to differentiate those two guys, Freud was like

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Speaker 2: dreams conceal and Jung was like, no, no, no, dreams reveal.

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Speaker 2: And he was basically like just read your dream. Like

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Speaker 2: it's telling you something, but you don't have to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: what does this mean? You already know what it means.

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Speaker 2: And that it uses mythic archetypes as this ancient basic

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Speaker 2: language that any human can understand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Like the mythic archetype of Rachel Dratch. Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Who represented the trickster.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I also think it can vary. Like clearly,

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Speaker 1: if I keep having the same dream of trying to

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Speaker 1: get somewhere and can't get there, Like that may be

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Speaker 1: saying something about my life. But I also think that

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Speaker 1: it's just completely a complete random assimilation of just weirdo

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Speaker 1: things popping into your head. Like Rachel Dratch at an

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Speaker 1: art opening.

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Speaker 2: Right. I tend to think like there is some series

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Speaker 2: of like like neural connections that happened in the last

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Speaker 2: day or two. That didn't make me consciously think of

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Speaker 2: Rachel Dratch. But when I put those things together while

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Speaker 2: I'm sleeping, there's Rachel Dratch.

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Speaker 1: I tried to wonder or I tried to wonder. I

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Speaker 1: wondered if I had like, you know, I do follow

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Speaker 1: her on Instagram, but I don't think I'd seen her

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Speaker 1: on Instagram anytime recently. But who knows?

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Speaker 2: See, to me, it's like maybe you remembered a joke

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Speaker 2: that someone on SNL told that she was just standing

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Speaker 2: like in the background of that you focused on her

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Speaker 2: years back. And you associate her with that joke, but

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Speaker 2: don't realize it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Debbie Downer.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of my take on it. And if you

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Speaker 2: look at Freud, you look at Jung's interpretations or dream theories,

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Speaker 2: I should say, we've really done away with Jung's more

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Speaker 2: than we have with Freud's, you know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you're probably right.

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Speaker 2: But then that's like the psychoanalysis version of it. Along

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Speaker 2: comes in the 70s some much more scientific ideas about

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Speaker 2: what dreams are and why we dream. And they really

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Speaker 2: dovetail with your interpretation that they're essentially just random bits

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Speaker 2: of meaningless information that our brain struggles to put together

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Speaker 2: into a narrative. And that that's that. There's no meaning.

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Speaker 2: It's not trying to tell us anything. that grain silo

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Speaker 2: over there isn't a giant penis that you wish you had.

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Speaker 2: Like it's just, just dreams. Like they don't, they're just

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Speaker 2: a by-product of your brain firing while you're asleep. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's called the activation synthesis hypothesis, which is, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: just neurological processes playing out. Uh, and in this case,

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Speaker 1: it's the forebrain trying to make sense of just what's

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Speaker 1: firing around a neuron wise while you're in REM sleep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's just, Just like where it takes your brain

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Speaker 2: firing while you're awake and puts it into like a

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Speaker 2: narrative that usually fairly resembles reality. When you're sleeping, you're

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Speaker 2: getting random impulses according to this. And so it's just

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Speaker 2: doing its best. And sometimes its best is just plain

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Speaker 2: old weird. Like there's Rachel Dratch, you know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think most of my dreams are odd. I

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Speaker 1: don't ever have fantastical dreams where Like I'm a winged

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Speaker 1: beast that's flying through, you know, prehistoric life or anything

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever

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Speaker 2: flown in my dreams. Have you?

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. All of my dreams now are

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Speaker 1: trying desperately to catch a flight that I can't catch.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, not actually flying.

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Speaker 2: So there are some characteristics of dreams that these guys

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Speaker 2: came up with the activation synthesis hypothesis pointed out. Alan

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Speaker 2: Hobson and Robert McCarley, by the way, are the guys

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Speaker 2: who figured this out. They said that there's illogical content, right?

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Speaker 1: Check. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Odd sensory experiences.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Intense emotions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens.

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Speaker 2: Acceptance of strange events. That's my favorite one.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. In dreams, you're always just like, oh, yeah, sure.

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Speaker 2: Right. And then difficulty in remembering them. And that it's

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Speaker 2: just we just take that for granted. Right. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: dreams are hard to recall. But as we'll see in

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Speaker 2: a little while, there's that's just doesn't quite add up

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Speaker 2: and make sense. And they've not figured out why that's

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Speaker 2: the case quite yet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other, you know, those were from those

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Speaker 1: two researchers since then. Other people have put forward that

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Speaker 1: it's usually a first person perspective thing that features other people.

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Speaker 1: And that they incorporate elements of waking life. And I

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Speaker 1: found all that to be basically true. For sure. All right.

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Speaker 1: So talking more about dreams and specifically Hobson and McCarley, who,

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Speaker 1: you know, researched the stuff in the late 70s, that

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Speaker 1: theory they put forward that it's like, hey, you're looking

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Speaker 1: too deeply into this. It's just a bunch of random

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Speaker 1: neurons firing and your brain trying to make sense of

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Speaker 1: it all. It was a pretty controversial theory because I

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Speaker 1: guess they were the first people to kind of put

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Speaker 1: forward that dreams may not be this big, deep thing

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Speaker 1: full of meaning.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: But it didn't, like, explain why we dream.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it does in that it's saying there's no

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Speaker 2: explanation aside from your brain just firing randomly. Right. Then

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Speaker 2: they're like, just leave it at that. And other people

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Speaker 2: are like, no, I will not leave it at that.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I guess also what you're saying is that it doesn't

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Speaker 2: explain dreaming. Francis Crick was like, OK, you can explain

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Speaker 2: dreaming without adding like symbolism and all sorts of weird

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Speaker 2: stuff to it. You can just say like your brain

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Speaker 2: is actually going through some steps that to, I guess,

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Speaker 2: McCarley and Hobson just seemed like random firing. But what

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Speaker 2: it's actually doing is sorting through the inputs throughout the

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Speaker 2: day and saying, well, get rid of that. Oh, I

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Speaker 2: want to turn this into a memory. Oh, let's see

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Speaker 2: what happens if we do this. But while we're, um, uh,

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Speaker 2: an elf, you know, and that it's actually like, he

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Speaker 2: called it reverse learning where you're, you're figuring you're sorting

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Speaker 2: through the stuff from the day and that that's what

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Speaker 2: your brain's doing when you're dreaming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't, I don't fully understand that one.

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Speaker 2: I think what he was saying is sure guys, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's just random firing or it seems like random firing,

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Speaker 2: but there's a, our brain, there's an evolutionary purpose to it.

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Speaker 2: It's not just some byproduct. Like there's a reason for it,

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Speaker 2: I think is what he was saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. All right. Well, I think he, again, to this, uh, research,

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Speaker 1: like he basically was like, this is a starting point.

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Speaker 1: Like he didn't claim to be the final point on

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Speaker 1: the matter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 1: Uh, people also think we might dream to process emotions, uh,

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Speaker 1: That clearing the mind clutter kind of goes back to

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Speaker 1: what Crick was talking about. Promoting creativity, perhaps. Maybe as

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Speaker 1: sort of like a dress rehearsal to something that may

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Speaker 1: like scare you in real life. Obviously, like the dreams

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Speaker 1: you had the night before, like a big interview or

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Speaker 1: something in that case.

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Speaker 2: Man, those are the worst. That sleep is not refreshing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, man, thank God we've had this job

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Speaker 1: for so long and haven't had to go through... that

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Speaker 1: in life in a while.

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Speaker 2: No, I know. Or put a resume together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Very fortunate.

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Speaker 2: Um, so, uh, okay. So those are, those are theories

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Speaker 2: that of like what dreams are, why we dream. And

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Speaker 2: I think the fact that we haven't, we'd never said like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is the one, or this is the most widely

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Speaker 2: accepted one. Even among dream researchers, there's like, there's a

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Speaker 2: divide between whether people think dreams are functional and do

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Speaker 2: something and others who are like, no, it's just random.

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Speaker 2: So that's not been settled even among the people who

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Speaker 2: study this for a living. And I mentioned dream recall too, right?

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00:20:06,190 --> 00:20:09,950
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's tough. Sometimes I don't remember them

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Speaker 1: at all. I mentioned that the Rachel Dratch one, I

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Speaker 1: had just woken up from that dream. So I definitely

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Speaker 1: remember it. And that apparently is one of the keys

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Speaker 1: because they say five minutes after the end of the dream,

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Speaker 1: they say you've forgotten about half of it. 10 minutes later,

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Speaker 1: you've forgotten 90% of it. So if you want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, have like a dream journal and if you

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Speaker 1: want to remember your dreams, they say that you know,

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Speaker 1: to be awakened during that REM sleep is the time

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Speaker 1: to do it. And, you know, they suggest things like

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Speaker 1: setting an alarm to wake yourself up during REM sleep

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Speaker 1: and like keep a pad and a pencil. Like if

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Speaker 1: that's what you're into, great. I would have a hard

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Speaker 1: time falling back to sleep. So that's not for me.

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Speaker 2: Right. That's also the reason why they wake you up

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Speaker 2: like at terrible times. Because, you know, you don't want to,

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Speaker 2: if you wake up in the middle of REM sleep,

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Speaker 2: like you're groggy for the rest of the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And during sleep studies, or dream studies, I should say,

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Speaker 2: they wake you up purposefully during REM sleep.

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Speaker 1: That'd be terrible for me.

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Speaker 2: I know. And I've read that the trick that the

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Speaker 2: dream researchers use is they go, wake up, it's time

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Speaker 2: for Taco Bell fourth meal. And that usually gets people up.

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Speaker 1: Taco Bell fourth meal. I rolled the dice about a

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Speaker 1: week and a half ago and had Taco Bell.

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Speaker 2: Oh, wow. How was it?

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Speaker 1: It was great. I was in the drive-thru line Googling

434
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Speaker 1: is it safe now to eat a Taco Bell because

435
00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:41,670
Speaker 1: of the lettuce thing? And the internet said, oh, sure.

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Speaker 1: You go right ahead, buddy. It's great.

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Speaker 2: Did it really? I'm surprised.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It said that they had worked all that out.

439
00:21:47,490 --> 00:21:49,590
Speaker 2: Oh, I hadn't. Oh yeah, that's right. I think Taco

440
00:21:49,609 --> 00:21:52,420
Speaker 2: Bell switched suppliers like basically on day zero.

441
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:52,900
Speaker 1: Yeah.

442
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,300
Speaker 2: Okay, cool.

443
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:54,959
Speaker 1: That was good.

444
00:21:55,540 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: I'm glad. And you haven't been pooping your pants for

445
00:21:58,650 --> 00:21:59,350
Speaker 2: Two straight weeks.

446
00:21:59,670 --> 00:22:01,810
Speaker 1: Well, I did because I ate Taco Bell. That's why, like,

447
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:03,310
Speaker 1: who can tell the difference?

448
00:22:04,530 --> 00:22:07,410
Speaker 2: That happened to me with Crystal once. Oh. Oh, yeah?

449
00:22:08,109 --> 00:22:09,350
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. All right.

450
00:22:09,369 --> 00:22:10,550
Speaker 2: I should probably edit that out.

451
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:11,310
Speaker 1: Moving on.

452
00:22:12,510 --> 00:22:14,810
Speaker 2: So I think you touched on something early on, too,

453
00:22:14,869 --> 00:22:18,230
Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, if I recall. You said that

454
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,629
Speaker 2: some people say that they don't dream.

455
00:22:20,650 --> 00:22:21,130
Speaker 1: Yeah.

456
00:22:21,170 --> 00:22:24,180
Speaker 2: And it's up for debate whether they actually do dream

457
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 2: because everybody dreams is the idea.

458
00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:26,540
Speaker 1: Yeah.

459
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: And they just don't recall very well. Or if some

460
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,869
Speaker 2: people don't dream. Yeah. And they found like, no, it

461
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,730
Speaker 2: seems like everybody dreams because they've studied people who say like,

462
00:22:37,790 --> 00:22:40,090
Speaker 2: I never remember dreams so much. So I don't think

463
00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:43,990
Speaker 2: I dream. They'll wake them up during REM sleep and say,

464
00:22:44,010 --> 00:22:46,030
Speaker 2: what were you dreaming about? And those people can recall

465
00:22:46,090 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: a dream. So they think, yes, everyone dreams, but do

466
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,389
Speaker 2: some people dream more than others? And if not, Or

467
00:22:55,450 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 2: if so, then is it just like they, you know,

468
00:22:57,780 --> 00:23:00,060
Speaker 2: they have more trouble recalling than other people.

469
00:23:00,460 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 1: Right. For sure. And then, of course, there have been

470
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: theories within the dream theory community since Freud about like

471
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,860
Speaker 1: why we don't remember our dreams or we or we do.

472
00:23:10,510 --> 00:23:14,490
Speaker 1: And Freud was like, well, you know, we forget them

473
00:23:14,550 --> 00:23:18,449
Speaker 1: because if you remember, they are repressed feelings and wishes.

474
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:20,689
Speaker 1: So like that's the kind of thing you might want

475
00:23:20,730 --> 00:23:21,690
Speaker 1: to push out of your head.

476
00:23:22,270 --> 00:23:22,470
Speaker 2: Right.

477
00:23:22,670 --> 00:23:27,220
Speaker 1: Keep it repressed. Right. There's other people that have said that,

478
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,979
Speaker 1: you know, other things just like are there's too much

479
00:23:32,020 --> 00:23:35,540
Speaker 1: in the brain, basically. So you can't remember it all.

480
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:38,689
Speaker 1: And also waking up like you're some people wake up

481
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:41,090
Speaker 1: and it's really hard for some people to come around

482
00:23:41,150 --> 00:23:42,990
Speaker 1: and remember anything when they first wake up.

483
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely subscribe to the neurobiological explanation for why

484
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 2: dream recall is so hard because there's such there's some

485
00:23:51,020 --> 00:23:53,220
Speaker 2: really convincing parts to it. Right.

486
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:53,900
Speaker 1: Yeah.

487
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 2: Like the hippocampus, which is the little component that's responsible

488
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 2: for consolidating short term memory into long term memory. It's

489
00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 2: it it's like stays asleep a little longer than the

490
00:24:04,980 --> 00:24:07,460
Speaker 2: rest of your brain. So you don't just immediately get

491
00:24:07,540 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: to assembling your your short term memory of your dreams

492
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 2: into long term memories. That makes sense.

493
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,179
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just now waking up, quite honestly. What's going on?

494
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: What's happening?

495
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 2: You're such a pro that you just did like half

496
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,780
Speaker 2: of a podcast while you're still waking up.

497
00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:24,609
Speaker 1: Oh, boy.

498
00:24:26,010 --> 00:24:30,390
Speaker 2: Neurotransmitters, acetylcholine and norepinephrine are both involved in memory consolidation,

499
00:24:30,430 --> 00:24:34,130
Speaker 2: and their levels dwindle and do weird stuff while you're

500
00:24:34,170 --> 00:24:38,230
Speaker 2: having REM sleep. So there's like a lot of reasons

501
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:42,550
Speaker 2: why you probably aren't great at recalling your dreams and

502
00:24:42,570 --> 00:24:45,050
Speaker 2: then some people are really good at it and they're

503
00:24:45,090 --> 00:24:46,450
Speaker 2: just freaks of nature.

504
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:49,730
Speaker 1: Yeah i mean some people think that if you are

505
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:52,790
Speaker 1: uh like if you're someone who's very prone to introspection

506
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:56,169
Speaker 1: or maybe daydreaming you might be better remembering your dreams

507
00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:58,930
Speaker 1: during the nighttime or whenever you happen to sleep yeah

508
00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:01,540
Speaker 1: uh but you can you know they say you can

509
00:25:01,580 --> 00:25:06,699
Speaker 1: train yourself to remember your dreams uh you know the

510
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:10,129
Speaker 1: the dream journal like i mentioned earlier is is one

511
00:25:10,150 --> 00:25:12,449
Speaker 1: way to at least record them. But if you want

512
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: to increase your dream recall, first of all, you have

513
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: to fall into that REM sleep, obviously. There are things

514
00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:22,020
Speaker 1: that can prohibit you from at least remembering your dreams,

515
00:25:22,060 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: like drinking booze or smoking pot or like exercising right

516
00:25:26,540 --> 00:25:29,420
Speaker 1: before you go to bed. That can definitely affect your

517
00:25:29,530 --> 00:25:32,290
Speaker 1: dream recall. And then you can, you know, you can

518
00:25:32,330 --> 00:25:34,710
Speaker 1: train yourself. I think we talked about this in other episodes.

519
00:25:35,130 --> 00:25:37,989
Speaker 1: Might've been lucid dreaming. Can you control your dreams? Like

520
00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:41,850
Speaker 1: when you go to bed, Say, like, as you're falling asleep,

521
00:25:41,910 --> 00:25:43,470
Speaker 1: try and just say, like, I'm going to dream. I'm

522
00:25:43,490 --> 00:25:45,830
Speaker 1: going to remember. I'm going to remember these dreams. I'm

523
00:25:45,850 --> 00:25:46,260
Speaker 1: going to do it.

524
00:25:46,510 --> 00:25:49,109
Speaker 2: I've heard it's best to say, I must. I must.

525
00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:50,570
Speaker 2: I must remember my dreams.

526
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:54,110
Speaker 1: And, again, if you wake up right out of a dream,

527
00:25:54,130 --> 00:25:58,590
Speaker 1: you're more likely to remember it. Probably if it's a super, like,

528
00:25:58,650 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: intense or vivid dream, you're more likely to remember it.

529
00:26:02,109 --> 00:26:02,990
Speaker 2: Right.

530
00:26:03,170 --> 00:26:05,890
Speaker 1: And I have, like, I try to do the thing

531
00:26:05,910 --> 00:26:07,670
Speaker 1: where if I'm having a dream that I'm really enjoying

532
00:26:07,710 --> 00:26:09,270
Speaker 1: and I have to wake up and go to the bathroom.

533
00:26:10,030 --> 00:26:12,109
Speaker 1: I really try and just keep that dream running in

534
00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: my head and try and get right back to it.

535
00:26:13,810 --> 00:26:14,710
Speaker 1: And sometimes that works.

536
00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:18,810
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's that's yeah. And not only are you trying

537
00:26:18,850 --> 00:26:20,669
Speaker 2: to remember the dream, you're trying not to wake up.

538
00:26:21,130 --> 00:26:21,370
Speaker 1: Yeah.

539
00:26:21,410 --> 00:26:24,050
Speaker 2: Just from peeing too. Yes. That definitely works. Like you're just,

540
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:26,670
Speaker 2: there's a certain level of consciousness that you'll let your

541
00:26:26,730 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: brain rise to. Right.

542
00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: Right.

543
00:26:28,820 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 2: I actually have a dream that I remember because I

544
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: woke up straight out of it. Literally. Um, It was cool.

545
00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: It was one of the neatest things that's ever happened

546
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: to me. So I was laying in bed, sleeping, dreaming

547
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: that I was sitting in a car. And as I

548
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: got out of the car, I was getting out of

549
00:26:45,140 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 2: bed because I had to get up to pee myself.

550
00:26:47,740 --> 00:26:51,740
Speaker 2: And like, it felt very much like as my right

551
00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:55,020
Speaker 2: leg got out of the bed and the car, like

552
00:26:55,100 --> 00:26:59,619
Speaker 2: my right leg was awake. But like the rest of

553
00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: my body hadn't woken up yet because it was still

554
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,700
Speaker 2: in the car, but my leg was in my bedroom still.

555
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:08,190
Speaker 2: And so as I got up out of bed, I

556
00:27:08,770 --> 00:27:10,850
Speaker 2: was getting out of the car in my dream and

557
00:27:11,310 --> 00:27:16,430
Speaker 2: I just slowly transferred from the dream world into waking

558
00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:19,990
Speaker 2: reality in my room. Wow. It was really neat. Like

559
00:27:20,369 --> 00:27:23,050
Speaker 2: the interior of the car and the edge of the

560
00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:25,070
Speaker 2: bed were one in the same. And it was like

561
00:27:25,109 --> 00:27:29,010
Speaker 2: just some, I don't know, like portal or threshold or

562
00:27:29,050 --> 00:27:29,690
Speaker 2: something that.

563
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:30,369
Speaker 1: I went through.

564
00:27:30,390 --> 00:27:32,109
Speaker 2: It was really, really cool, man. Yeah.

565
00:27:32,550 --> 00:27:34,510
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that stuff. I mean, that's why I

566
00:27:34,550 --> 00:27:38,010
Speaker 1: love dreams. Cause they're just, it's, they can be just

567
00:27:38,030 --> 00:27:41,750
Speaker 1: so bizarre and put you in a completely like weird

568
00:27:41,810 --> 00:27:47,060
Speaker 1: state of mind without, you know, any substances for sure. So, uh,

569
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,460
Speaker 1: they apparently, you know, and this is, um, I encourage

570
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: you to go to listen to the lucid dreaming episode.

571
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: Can you control your dreams? Cause that's the idea that,

572
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,190
Speaker 1: you know, you're asleep, you know, you're dreaming and you're

573
00:27:57,230 --> 00:27:59,869
Speaker 1: in control of your dream. Like dream sailing, I think

574
00:27:59,930 --> 00:28:01,530
Speaker 1: is what we called it or other people have called

575
00:28:01,550 --> 00:28:02,330
Speaker 1: it for sure.

576
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:06,369
Speaker 2: And that was 2009, so that was like an early one.

577
00:28:06,570 --> 00:28:08,770
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a minute ago. But dream incubation is

578
00:28:08,810 --> 00:28:12,450
Speaker 1: another thing, and that's if you want to dream about

579
00:28:12,490 --> 00:28:16,090
Speaker 1: a certain thing, you try and kind of do the

580
00:28:16,130 --> 00:28:19,169
Speaker 1: same thing, like focus your attention on that thing as

581
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:23,090
Speaker 1: you're going to sleep. And a lot of times people,

582
00:28:23,230 --> 00:28:27,740
Speaker 1: there is one sort of subset of researchers that say,

583
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,899
Speaker 1: or maybe just people that think that you can like

584
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:34,290
Speaker 1: come up with creative solutions for maybe mental or creative

585
00:28:34,330 --> 00:28:37,330
Speaker 1: blocks while you're dreaming. And so they will try and

586
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:40,650
Speaker 1: induce or incubate a dream as they're going to sleep.

587
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's basically like, I want to dream about this.

588
00:28:47,130 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: And so you will hopefully dream about it, especially if

589
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: you like kind of prime yourself throughout the day to

590
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,420
Speaker 2: dream about that one topic. And people have shown you

591
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,220
Speaker 2: can come up with solutions to waking life problems in

592
00:28:59,260 --> 00:29:02,010
Speaker 2: your dreams. And there have been some famous examples of it.

593
00:29:02,790 --> 00:29:06,540
Speaker 2: One that usually gets mentioned in any kind of list

594
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,700
Speaker 2: of those, there's Kekele, the German chemist, who discovered the

595
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:17,510
Speaker 2: structure of the benzene molecule, which sounds like, okay, great.

596
00:29:18,450 --> 00:29:21,290
Speaker 2: It required completely different thinking than everything he had been

597
00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:23,230
Speaker 2: trained to up to that point, because he was a

598
00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:26,830
Speaker 2: chemist in Germany in the mid-19th century. And at that time,

599
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: they thought every molecule... Was linear in arrangement. And he

600
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,230
Speaker 2: was like, this is not the math is not adding

601
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:37,370
Speaker 2: up like this thing does not work in a linear shape.

602
00:29:37,370 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: What am I missing? And he he slept one night

603
00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:44,459
Speaker 2: and dreamt of Ouroboros or Ouroboros, a snake eating its

604
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,340
Speaker 2: own tail. And when he woke up, it was just

605
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,260
Speaker 2: clear as day to him that the benzene molecule was

606
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: in a ring arrangement, a circular arrangement rather than linear.

607
00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:54,420
Speaker 1: And he was right.

608
00:29:55,030 --> 00:29:55,290
Speaker 2: Yeah.

609
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,750
Speaker 1: I mean, you hear stories like that or that Mary Shelley, um,

610
00:30:00,030 --> 00:30:04,510
Speaker 1: dreamed up Frankenstein or other musicians like famous songs came

611
00:30:04,530 --> 00:30:07,530
Speaker 1: to them in their sleep. And I hear that stuff.

612
00:30:07,570 --> 00:30:11,850
Speaker 1: And I think that that like the solution to the

613
00:30:12,770 --> 00:30:16,300
Speaker 1: benzene molecule or the seed of the idea of Frankenstein

614
00:30:16,340 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: was in their brain already. And the dream allowed it

615
00:30:19,910 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: to be tapped into or something. I don't know. I mean,

616
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:24,660
Speaker 1: it's there's obviously nothing to prove that, but it just

617
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,500
Speaker 1: sort of makes sense to me.

618
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:28,420
Speaker 2: That's my take on it, too, that it was already

619
00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:32,350
Speaker 2: there and they're their dream state just allowed them to

620
00:30:32,730 --> 00:30:35,110
Speaker 2: think about it in different ways than they do in

621
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:35,910
Speaker 2: waking life.

622
00:30:36,130 --> 00:30:36,510
Speaker 1: So cool.

623
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:39,990
Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw yesterday and let it be. We're both

624
00:30:40,050 --> 00:30:44,750
Speaker 2: dreamt by Paul McCartney river of dreams. Um, that one

625
00:30:44,770 --> 00:30:46,870
Speaker 2: where it's like in the middle of the night, that

626
00:30:46,910 --> 00:30:47,670
Speaker 2: Billy Joel song.

627
00:30:48,030 --> 00:30:48,230
Speaker 1: Yeah.

628
00:30:49,170 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: You didn't like my Billy Joel impression.

629
00:30:51,060 --> 00:30:51,860
Speaker 1: No, I thought it was funny.

630
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,300
Speaker 2: Uh, that one was, came to him in a dream.

631
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,660
Speaker 1: You're not gonna sing yesterday.

632
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: No.

633
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: Okay.

634
00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:01,170
Speaker 2: Uh, Beethoven, uh, had a, uh, Some music come to

635
00:31:01,210 --> 00:31:06,530
Speaker 2: him in a dream. 99 Loof Balloons. Jimi Hendrix, Purple Haze.

636
00:31:07,170 --> 00:31:07,430
Speaker 1: Yeah.

637
00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:09,510
Speaker 2: And are you familiar with Apex Twin?

638
00:31:10,330 --> 00:31:11,070
Speaker 1: Oh, sure. Okay.

639
00:31:11,470 --> 00:31:15,930
Speaker 2: Apex Twin apparently is a hardcore lucid dreamer and has

640
00:31:15,970 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: made bunches of songs by lucid dreaming, like purposely going

641
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: to sleep and dreaming to work out music.

642
00:31:23,820 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: Cheat code. That's what they call that.

643
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:29,410
Speaker 2: You got me with that one.

644
00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 1: Should we take a break? Yeah. All right. We'll take

645
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: a break and we'll talk a little bit more about

646
00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:36,970
Speaker 1: dream meetings and nightmares right after this.

647
00:32:02,590 --> 00:32:05,530
Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, so I think this is going rather well.

648
00:32:05,550 --> 00:32:08,110
Speaker 2: What do you think?

649
00:32:08,210 --> 00:32:08,510
Speaker 1: I agree.

650
00:32:09,550 --> 00:32:13,150
Speaker 2: So there's that whole divide about whether dreams mean anything

651
00:32:13,270 --> 00:32:14,310
Speaker 2: or if they're just random.

652
00:32:14,650 --> 00:32:14,850
Speaker 1: Right.

653
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:18,970
Speaker 2: Most people, I would say, are like, no, it's not random, man.

654
00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:22,930
Speaker 2: I had this one dream, and it said that I

655
00:32:22,990 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: should go pursue a career as a sailor, and here

656
00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: I am a sailor, and I've never been happier, right? Mm-hmm.

657
00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:32,380
Speaker 2: I've got a virgin voyage on the brain, I guess.

658
00:32:32,740 --> 00:32:36,260
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. I mean, my, my grandfather, after he passed,

659
00:32:36,340 --> 00:32:38,370
Speaker 1: came to me in a dream very specifically when I

660
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,110
Speaker 1: was like 10 years old. So, you know, you hear

661
00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:44,930
Speaker 1: something like that and I, I'm not, uh, you know,

662
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:47,290
Speaker 1: super woo woo. So I don't necessarily think that he

663
00:32:47,390 --> 00:32:51,610
Speaker 1: came to me in a dream and like something metaphysical happened. Um,

664
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:53,390
Speaker 1: to me, it was just a kid trying to make

665
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:56,340
Speaker 1: sense of losing his grandfather and a dream, like providing

666
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: some relief. Maybe.

667
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,950
Speaker 2: That's neat. I, I, I kind of, there's like a

668
00:33:01,030 --> 00:33:04,070
Speaker 2: kernel of me that is, is like, it's possible that

669
00:33:04,110 --> 00:33:06,690
Speaker 2: your grandfather was somehow visiting you.

670
00:33:06,790 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'd like to believe that's true. It was, it

671
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,900
Speaker 1: was very powerful. I still remember it, you know, all

672
00:33:10,940 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: these years later.

673
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:14,660
Speaker 2: That's neat. Did he, he, was he very critical of

674
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:15,540
Speaker 2: you in the dream?

675
00:33:15,820 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, no, he, he literally walked up to me

676
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,580
Speaker 1: and said, uh, you're going to be okay, bud. And

677
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:23,980
Speaker 1: that was it.

678
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

679
00:33:25,580 --> 00:33:29,170
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like super, I was like, Yeah. Granddad's really on

680
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:35,890
Speaker 1: the nose. Yeah. It still makes me emotional. Years later,

681
00:33:35,930 --> 00:33:39,140
Speaker 1: I was like 10 or 11 years old and I'm 55.

682
00:33:39,130 --> 00:33:39,490
Speaker 1: Good Lord.

683
00:33:39,910 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I can imagine that's like a lifetime experience

684
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,660
Speaker 2: that not everybody gets. It's like, yeah, that's a really

685
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:47,750
Speaker 2: special thing that happened to you.

686
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,780
Speaker 1: And you hear those stories. Thanks, man. I appreciate that.

687
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,370
Speaker 1: You hear stories all the time about like way more

688
00:33:53,410 --> 00:33:55,690
Speaker 1: involved dreams than that of like, you know, people from

689
00:33:55,710 --> 00:33:57,709
Speaker 1: the beyond, like getting in touch and stuff. I think

690
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:58,250
Speaker 1: it's interesting.

691
00:33:58,810 --> 00:34:05,500
Speaker 2: Check out this new card trick I just learned. All right.

692
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,379
Speaker 2: Back to dream meanings and symbols, I think is kind

693
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,219
Speaker 2: of what most people point to, which is why I

694
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,779
Speaker 2: said Freud's influence is still around today. Anybody who's like, no,

695
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,700
Speaker 2: dreams are symbolic and you have to interpret them. You're

696
00:34:18,739 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 2: following in Freud's wake.

697
00:34:21,630 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are like some stock sort of explanations

698
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: or guides for this kind of thing. Like when I

699
00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: mentioned my teeth falling out, it's a very common dream.

700
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:37,129
Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, it usually indicates anxiety about something. What you said,

701
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:39,969
Speaker 1: anxiety about appearance. So I never really thought about that,

702
00:34:40,050 --> 00:34:45,649
Speaker 1: but also maybe feeling deceitful or concerns about your health.

703
00:34:47,590 --> 00:34:50,980
Speaker 1: Teeth falling out? Then my teeth literally fell out, which

704
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,859
Speaker 1: is kind of funny.

705
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: Did you dream that they went right back in?

706
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: No, that's funny. But I do think that maybe my

707
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: teeth grinding, it might have been a sort of reaction

708
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: to me grinding my teeth at night.

709
00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:05,820
Speaker 2: That's interesting.

710
00:35:06,060 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

711
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,300
Speaker 2: Yumi has a recurring teeth falling out dream where she'll

712
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: have some sort of diamond somewhere or there's a diamond

713
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:18,210
Speaker 2: somewhere in the dream. Usually it's in like a ring

714
00:35:18,610 --> 00:35:21,690
Speaker 2: and it falls out. And she knows that that's her

715
00:35:21,790 --> 00:35:23,970
Speaker 2: signal that her teeth are all about to fall out.

716
00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting. Yeah. I thought you were about to say

717
00:35:26,380 --> 00:35:27,029
Speaker 1: she gets grills.

718
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,860
Speaker 2: You would love a grill, actually. There's a grill museum

719
00:35:32,020 --> 00:35:33,339
Speaker 2: in Atlanta. Did you know that?

720
00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: No, but I'm not surprised.

721
00:35:35,180 --> 00:35:36,900
Speaker 2: There is one. We haven't been yet.

722
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: Atlanta's got to be one of the grill capitals of

723
00:35:39,020 --> 00:35:39,299
Speaker 1: the world.

724
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: I would guess so. Because it's also like the trap

725
00:35:41,940 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: music capital of the world. And those two things go

726
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:44,740
Speaker 2: hand in hand.

727
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: For sure. What about falling in a dream?

728
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:52,890
Speaker 2: This one sucks, I can tell you firsthand. It's typically

729
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:56,190
Speaker 2: thought to mean that you feel out of control of

730
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:56,609
Speaker 2: your life.

731
00:35:57,570 --> 00:35:57,830
Speaker 1: Yeah.

732
00:35:58,410 --> 00:36:02,290
Speaker 2: Being chased. I like this one, that you're evading responsibilities.

733
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:03,569
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.

734
00:36:04,330 --> 00:36:05,110
Speaker 2: What about fire?

735
00:36:06,350 --> 00:36:10,790
Speaker 1: Fire, maybe it's about renewal, or maybe it's about some

736
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:15,219
Speaker 1: anger that you have repressed, or maybe purification, perhaps, or destruction.

737
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: Yep.

738
00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:16,489
Speaker 1: Or.

739
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever had this one. Have you

740
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,340
Speaker 2: ever had one about being naked in public?

741
00:36:22,060 --> 00:36:27,090
Speaker 1: I don't think so. But that's a pretty common dream,

742
00:36:27,150 --> 00:36:32,450
Speaker 1: I think, supposedly. I don't think I've had being naked.

743
00:36:32,489 --> 00:36:34,049
Speaker 1: Or maybe I did when I was younger. I don't know.

744
00:36:34,830 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: But they typically think you have probably had an embarrassing

745
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,339
Speaker 2: situation and you're still processing it.

746
00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. But the issue with all this

747
00:36:44,420 --> 00:36:47,940
Speaker 1: stuff is... I said these are sort of stock explanations.

748
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 1: You know, they sell books and they get clicks for articles,

749
00:36:51,860 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: but it's hard to get a stock explanation because it's so,

750
00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:59,930
Speaker 1: you know, you can see like somebody might see something

751
00:37:00,050 --> 00:37:02,210
Speaker 1: is like awesome in a dream where other people might

752
00:37:02,270 --> 00:37:06,450
Speaker 1: see it as a threat. It gets very culturally specific, obviously.

753
00:37:06,510 --> 00:37:09,830
Speaker 1: And even within the own, you're like one culture, things

754
00:37:09,969 --> 00:37:13,430
Speaker 1: can be interpreted in contradictory ways. So it's hard to

755
00:37:13,469 --> 00:37:15,219
Speaker 1: sort of say like, well, this is what that means.

756
00:37:15,739 --> 00:37:19,830
Speaker 2: Right. It definitely seems much more pop culture than scientific

757
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:20,370
Speaker 2: for sure.

758
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:21,029
Speaker 1: For sure.

759
00:37:21,790 --> 00:37:25,410
Speaker 2: And then there's, you had mentioned recurring dreams, your recurring

760
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:29,069
Speaker 2: dream of running late for something. Those are, that's, that's

761
00:37:29,150 --> 00:37:33,270
Speaker 2: a thing. Recurring dreams, especially recurring unpleasant dreams are a

762
00:37:33,390 --> 00:37:37,730
Speaker 2: horror that can be, that can befall humans, which is

763
00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:41,830
Speaker 2: very sad. Recurring dreams don't have to always be unpleasant,

764
00:37:42,270 --> 00:37:46,350
Speaker 2: but from what I could tell, unpleasant recurring dreams are

765
00:37:46,430 --> 00:37:49,029
Speaker 2: essentially non-existent, that the best you can hope for are

766
00:37:49,130 --> 00:37:54,650
Speaker 2: neutral recurring dreams. Most of the time they're at least unpleasant,

767
00:37:54,690 --> 00:37:56,630
Speaker 2: if not, you know, straight up bad dreams.

768
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, there's a distinction I

769
00:37:59,910 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, but that we were going to get into

770
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: it between bad dreams and nightmares. If you're talking about

771
00:38:05,739 --> 00:38:12,219
Speaker 1: just like real sleep research, a nightmare specifically means that

772
00:38:12,300 --> 00:38:16,300
Speaker 1: you or like it wakes you up. Like it's so bad,

773
00:38:16,739 --> 00:38:21,300
Speaker 1: you wake up, you know, obviously generally like scared.

774
00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:24,580
Speaker 2: That means, do you remember the end of Don't Be

775
00:38:24,620 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 2: Dumb was a nightmare for you? Do you remember? Because

776
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:30,500
Speaker 2: you woke up from it. That's right.

777
00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: You pulled me into Don't Be Dumb at the end.

778
00:38:32,580 --> 00:38:34,140
Speaker 2: It was great. It was a great ending.

779
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: In a very new heart way.

780
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:41,890
Speaker 2: There's another, there's an author, a neuroscientist named Siddhartha Ribeiro, Ribeiro,

781
00:38:42,290 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: I think. They wrote The Oracle of Night, colon, The

782
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 2: History and Science of Dreams. And they, I thought, made

783
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 2: a pretty interesting case for dreams having some sort of meaning,

784
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 2: even not symbolically, but at least they're not just random,

785
00:38:57,380 --> 00:38:59,620
Speaker 2: the byproduct of random neural firings.

786
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:00,219
Speaker 1: Right.

787
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,860
Speaker 2: And he said it's because the existence of recurring dreams

788
00:39:04,460 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: shows that you couldn't possibly have the same dream if

789
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,660
Speaker 2: your neurons are just firing randomly. Right.

790
00:39:11,060 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

791
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:14,140
Speaker 2: You could not have a recurring dream like there that

792
00:39:14,219 --> 00:39:16,910
Speaker 2: in and of itself shows that there is something to

793
00:39:16,989 --> 00:39:19,170
Speaker 2: dreams that they do serve some purpose or they do

794
00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:22,070
Speaker 2: have some meaning to us, which I thought was rather clever.

795
00:39:22,090 --> 00:39:26,589
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I probably agree with that. Recurring nightmares

796
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,020
Speaker 1: is probably kind of one of the worst things. And

797
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: it's very, very sad in that veterans and people suffering

798
00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:37,980
Speaker 1: from PTSD in general often have recurring nightmares. And that's

799
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,860
Speaker 1: actually one of the criteria for diagnosing PTSD. There was

800
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:44,700
Speaker 1: a study in 1998 that found two to eight percent

801
00:39:44,739 --> 00:39:48,490
Speaker 1: of adults have nightmares and or problematic nightmares at least,

802
00:39:48,570 --> 00:39:53,989
Speaker 1: and 52% of Vietnam veterans did. And that's tough stuff

803
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: because that's clearly, you know, things that are either buried

804
00:39:58,100 --> 00:40:00,819
Speaker 1: or that you just can't get over or deal with

805
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: still in your waking life.

806
00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 2: What's neat about that, though, is they have figured out

807
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,140
Speaker 2: forms of dream therapy for PTSD specifically, but it can

808
00:40:11,180 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: also be used by anyone having recurring bad dreams or nightmares.

809
00:40:15,969 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 2: Where you essentially train yourself to imagine a different ending

810
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: for that nightmare. Right.

811
00:40:23,620 --> 00:40:23,859
Speaker 1: Yeah.

812
00:40:23,940 --> 00:40:27,660
Speaker 2: So as for PTSD, like your nightmare is the event

813
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:31,660
Speaker 2: that gave you PTSD. So you're re-experiencing it over and

814
00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:36,070
Speaker 2: over every night, which it's just mind boggling how awful

815
00:40:36,110 --> 00:40:37,509
Speaker 2: that sounds. Right.

816
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:38,089
Speaker 1: Yeah.

817
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,339
Speaker 2: This therapy is like, OK, in this next dream, you're

818
00:40:42,380 --> 00:40:45,020
Speaker 2: going to like in the end, you're going to fight

819
00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:48,259
Speaker 2: this person off or you're going to suddenly be at

820
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,620
Speaker 2: home and at peace or whatever. And it's kind of

821
00:40:51,660 --> 00:40:56,500
Speaker 2: like that dream incubation idea where you eventually, hopefully, are

822
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: able to change the end of that nightmare. And from

823
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: what I was reading, that usually frees the person from

824
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: that nightmare. They never have it again after that.

825
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,850
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's the turn your frown upside down of hellish nightmares.

826
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:16,589
Speaker 2: For sure. Right. So at the very least, it's heartening

827
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,890
Speaker 2: that there is a solution, a potential solution, because nightmares,

828
00:41:20,969 --> 00:41:25,100
Speaker 2: whether you have PTSD or not, they're linked to self-injury

829
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,060
Speaker 2: and suicide. Yeah.

830
00:41:27,180 --> 00:41:29,660
Speaker 1: And, you know, even just at the bare minimum, it's

831
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:34,259
Speaker 1: going to give you perhaps sleep deprivation and it can

832
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: interfere with your, you know, normal routines during the day,

833
00:41:37,739 --> 00:41:40,830
Speaker 1: your job, your relationships. Uh, they think there may be

834
00:41:40,850 --> 00:41:45,330
Speaker 1: a genetic predisposition to frequent nightmares, but they don't know

835
00:41:45,370 --> 00:41:47,810
Speaker 1: what that is. Uh, but they also say, well, it

836
00:41:47,850 --> 00:41:51,390
Speaker 1: also could be maybe, uh, the same like genetic or

837
00:41:51,489 --> 00:41:54,419
Speaker 1: at least driven by genetic risk factors of mental health

838
00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: conditions that may be underlying behind the dreams. Yeah.

839
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:02,460
Speaker 2: And that actually ties into, um, nightmares and bad dreams

840
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,700
Speaker 2: being a, um, A characteristic or a trait of Parkinson's disease.

841
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. You found that.

842
00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:15,500
Speaker 2: And specifically Parkinson's disease with dementia. I guess 78% of

843
00:42:15,580 --> 00:42:19,450
Speaker 2: people with Parkinson's disease with dementia have recurring nightmares.

844
00:42:19,739 --> 00:42:20,140
Speaker 1: Oh, man.

845
00:42:20,770 --> 00:42:22,529
Speaker 2: Or at least bad dreams. I'm not sure if they

846
00:42:22,570 --> 00:42:24,850
Speaker 2: actually meet the criteria for nightmare where you wake up,

847
00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:28,370
Speaker 2: but it's not pleasant to go to sleep if you

848
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:30,010
Speaker 2: have Parkinson's with dementia.

849
00:42:30,530 --> 00:42:30,750
Speaker 1: Yeah.

850
00:42:32,070 --> 00:42:32,230
Speaker 2: Yeah.

851
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,580
Speaker 1: We talked about we did a whole episode on fever

852
00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:35,420
Speaker 1: dreams to remember that.

853
00:42:35,780 --> 00:42:36,020
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

854
00:42:36,620 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 1: That was interesting.

855
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: We did one on sleep paralysis.

856
00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: That's right.

857
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,910
Speaker 2: And we did one on night terrors, too. So, yeah,

858
00:42:44,090 --> 00:42:46,169
Speaker 2: both of those episodes are out there. I think sleep

859
00:42:46,210 --> 00:42:49,130
Speaker 2: paralysis was called like the worst thing that can happen

860
00:42:49,150 --> 00:42:51,570
Speaker 2: to you while you're sleeping, maybe. Right.

861
00:42:51,590 --> 00:42:55,339
Speaker 1: And that the sleep paralysis is when you like you're asleep,

862
00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:57,500
Speaker 1: but you picture yourself awake and there's like someone at

863
00:42:57,540 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: the foot of your bed.

864
00:42:58,570 --> 00:43:01,870
Speaker 2: Yeah, and because you're in REM sleep, you can't move. Yeah.

865
00:43:02,330 --> 00:43:02,930
Speaker 1: Oh, God.

866
00:43:03,610 --> 00:43:07,970
Speaker 2: And then night terrors are similar in that you appear

867
00:43:08,010 --> 00:43:11,390
Speaker 2: to other people to be awake because you're screaming and

868
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: fighting somebody off and your eyes are open, but you

869
00:43:15,020 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: are still asleep.

870
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, kids usually get those, but adults can as well.

871
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: And then what about this idea about premonitions? There have

872
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,860
Speaker 1: definitely been people that have at least said that they

873
00:43:31,219 --> 00:43:36,670
Speaker 1: had a premonition about some very specific historical event, sometimes

874
00:43:36,730 --> 00:43:39,489
Speaker 1: big time, and sometimes just, you know, little things that

875
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:42,330
Speaker 1: happen in people's families. But, you know, the big ones

876
00:43:42,370 --> 00:43:46,410
Speaker 1: are ones that get all the press. Like in the 1960s,

877
00:43:46,430 --> 00:43:49,780
Speaker 1: there was a Canadian dreamer named Kathleen Lorna Middleton who

878
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,500
Speaker 1: had a lot of dreams about things that she had

879
00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: no connection to. And she at least claimed to have

880
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:02,070
Speaker 1: predicted things Through her dream, a landslide in South Wales

881
00:44:02,110 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: that killed 144 people about an hour before. And supposedly

882
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,620
Speaker 1: the assassination of Robert Kennedy. Yeah. She foretold in a dream.

883
00:44:11,219 --> 00:44:14,500
Speaker 2: And she doesn't seem to have been like attention seeking

884
00:44:14,540 --> 00:44:16,770
Speaker 2: or anything like that. She does seem to have been

885
00:44:18,810 --> 00:44:23,469
Speaker 2: like this. These were her experiences. Of course, scientifically, you're like, well,

886
00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:25,669
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things you can point to that

887
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: that explain this. why people think there's such a thing

888
00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:33,290
Speaker 2: as precognitive dreams. Um, your dreams might be a little

889
00:44:33,390 --> 00:44:36,130
Speaker 2: ambiguous so that you're kind of retroactively going back and

890
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:40,230
Speaker 2: be like, yes, that's what that was, was saying. Um,

891
00:44:40,250 --> 00:44:43,819
Speaker 2: or your brain just wants to identify patterns naturally. We

892
00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:44,820
Speaker 2: talk about that a lot.

893
00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

894
00:44:45,620 --> 00:44:47,899
Speaker 2: Um, so it could be putting together stuff that's not

895
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:54,900
Speaker 2: really necessarily connected. Um, selective memory coincidence. Uh, Yeah, it's

896
00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,100
Speaker 2: just there's not really any room for it in science, typically.

897
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:03,220
Speaker 2: But I found an article that pointed out that quantum

898
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: physics actually has room for precognitive dreams.

899
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:08,219
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah?

900
00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. It basically says that under some quantum theories, like

901
00:45:12,700 --> 00:45:17,130
Speaker 2: quantum gravity, I think, it allows for this, where past, present,

902
00:45:17,170 --> 00:45:20,010
Speaker 2: and future are not following any kind of linear order

903
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:23,950
Speaker 2: like we think of time. Instead, they all kind of coexist.

904
00:45:24,739 --> 00:45:29,259
Speaker 2: And this quantum interpretation of precognitive dreams just basically says

905
00:45:29,620 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 2: in certain states, in this case dreaming, the dream state,

906
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 2: we're able to access future events just like we are

907
00:45:36,660 --> 00:45:39,469
Speaker 2: past events or present events when we're waking.

908
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 1: Hmm.

909
00:45:41,550 --> 00:45:41,969
Speaker 2: Pretty neat.

910
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:45,430
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty cool. I mean, between 17 and 38%

911
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: of people dream. say they have had at least one

912
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: precognitive dream in their lifetime. Uh, and I think definitely

913
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,339
Speaker 1: if you have like a willingness to accept, like, um,

914
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,140
Speaker 1: accept that kind of thing in general and maybe accept

915
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,060
Speaker 1: ambiguous information and put it together in a way that

916
00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:08,490
Speaker 1: makes sense. Like you may be more prone to be like, Hey,

917
00:46:08,530 --> 00:46:10,969
Speaker 1: but I dreamed this thing. And you know, who knows

918
00:46:11,010 --> 00:46:14,830
Speaker 1: that assassination was sort of a political assassination was much

919
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:17,090
Speaker 1: more of a thing when Robert Kennedy was assassinated and,

920
00:46:17,810 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: Maybe Kathleen Lorna Middleton was a fan of the Kennedys

921
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: and it's something that that concerned her.

922
00:46:24,140 --> 00:46:26,180
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good explanation.

923
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,180
Speaker 1: But, you know, it maybe it's not also to be explained.

924
00:46:29,219 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: And maybe I mean, who knows? Maybe people can really

925
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,700
Speaker 1: dream stuff that's going to happen. I don't know.

926
00:46:35,370 --> 00:46:38,250
Speaker 2: I don't either. I don't either, Chuck. And I think

927
00:46:38,290 --> 00:46:40,710
Speaker 2: that it takes a big man to admit something like that.

928
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:41,850
Speaker 2: All right.

929
00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:42,850
Speaker 1: We're a couple of big men.

930
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:45,950
Speaker 2: You got anything else about dreams right now?

931
00:46:46,810 --> 00:46:47,270
Speaker 1: I do not.

932
00:46:47,530 --> 00:46:49,750
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, that was our dream episode. People have been

933
00:46:49,790 --> 00:46:52,009
Speaker 2: calling for that for a while. Hopefully you guys liked it.

934
00:46:52,170 --> 00:46:53,170
Speaker 1: I know, yeah.

935
00:46:53,290 --> 00:46:56,550
Speaker 2: And since we're wondering whether you guys liked this episode,

936
00:46:56,890 --> 00:46:58,950
Speaker 2: I think I just accidentally triggered listener mail.

937
00:47:01,230 --> 00:47:03,750
Speaker 1: That's right. This is Sammy Davis Jr. 's story. I

938
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:04,609
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this.

939
00:47:04,770 --> 00:47:06,370
Speaker 2: It's pretty fun.

940
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:09,830
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, fairly new listener. Someone wrote in with the

941
00:47:09,870 --> 00:47:11,969
Speaker 1: Sammy Davis Jr. story, and you asked for more, so

942
00:47:11,989 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: here it is. When my elderly father passed in 2006,

943
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,370
Speaker 1: we heard a story from the wife of my dad's

944
00:47:18,410 --> 00:47:20,530
Speaker 1: business partner. She told us that there was a time

945
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:22,750
Speaker 1: when the four of them were in Las Vegas together

946
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:25,570
Speaker 1: and attended a Sammy Davis Jr. concert. My mother, who

947
00:47:25,610 --> 00:47:27,850
Speaker 1: had gone out to the restroom just before the concert began,

948
00:47:29,469 --> 00:47:32,180
Speaker 1: came back in. The lights went down. Sammy began his

949
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,620
Speaker 1: first number, and my mother returned from the restroom. It

950
00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: was dark, and she couldn't remember or see where they

951
00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:39,980
Speaker 1: were sitting. And as she stumbled between the tables, she

952
00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:44,170
Speaker 1: started calling out, Vic, where are you? Vic, where are you?

953
00:47:44,190 --> 00:47:47,330
Speaker 1: And it wasn't too long before Sammy completely stopped the

954
00:47:47,370 --> 00:47:50,890
Speaker 1: show and asked from the stage, Vic, babe, where are you?

955
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:54,529
Speaker 1: Mom got back to her table and Sammy started the

956
00:47:54,570 --> 00:47:58,700
Speaker 1: concert over again from the very beginning. Later that year,

957
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: very sadly, my mom also passed away and I was

958
00:48:01,380 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: able to tell this story as part of her remembrance,

959
00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: adding that I could imagine her arriving in heaven asking, Vic,

960
00:48:07,460 --> 00:48:11,469
Speaker 1: where are you? That is from Cliff in Madison, Wisconsin,

961
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:12,750
Speaker 1: one of my new favorite towns.

962
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:15,450
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a great town. And that's a great story, Cliff.

963
00:48:15,489 --> 00:48:17,790
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot for sending it to us. One of

964
00:48:17,830 --> 00:48:20,029
Speaker 2: the better Sammy Davis Jr. stories I've ever heard.

965
00:48:20,469 --> 00:48:23,270
Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't get much better than Sammy Davis Jr. addressing

966
00:48:23,310 --> 00:48:23,890
Speaker 1: you from stage.

967
00:48:24,290 --> 00:48:27,259
Speaker 2: For sure. If you want to be like Cliff and

968
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:29,980
Speaker 2: send us an email with a great story that's also

969
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:32,859
Speaker 2: kind of a tribute to your late loved one, we

970
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:35,739
Speaker 2: think those are the tops, as Sammy might say. At

971
00:48:35,780 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 2: the very least, Mel Torme would say it.

972
00:48:37,739 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: For sure.

973
00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:45,700
Speaker 2: You can send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.

974
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

975
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,150
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

976
00:48:53,310 --> 00:48:55,090
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.