1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 1: Warning. The following episode includes talk of magical texts, boxing 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: the mafia, and how a child preacher who railed against 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: astrology found his path in the stars. Sensitive listeners take care. 4 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: At the very beginning of this show, we set out 5 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 2: to find people with unusual stories biographies that upended our 6 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: understanding of astrology. And so my colleagues Mary and Mitra, 7 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: they went looking for all sorts of folks, right like 8 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: finance bros who believed in astrology, cheesemongers used the stars 9 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: to guide their process, towns that have built their entire 10 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: identity around astrology. And then one day Mary said to me, 11 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: I think that is a community of ex evangelicals who 12 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: fled the church and now they put their entire faith 13 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: in the stars. And you know, I was immediately fascinated, 14 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: right like, how do you walk away from one set 15 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: of really strong beliefs and then dive headfirst into another. 16 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: What type of person decides to do that? And what 17 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: are the circumstances that help you find your faith again? 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: And that's how we found Sam Reynolds. 19 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 3: I went to an astrologer to set up a gemini. 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: Sam is an extraordinary person and the truth is he's 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: got a story I can't stop thinking about. At birth, 22 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: his parents were told he wouldn't walk as a child. 23 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: He wasn't supposed to become a preacher in college. He 24 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to question his faith or take comfort in astrology. 25 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: But Sam's kind of defied expectations at every point of 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: his life. And what makes them so fascinating to me 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: at least is that in this search for faith and 28 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: love and a truer understanding of humanity, he moves with 29 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: such grace and assuredness and the past. For him it 30 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: never seems to be a mistake, like just a stepping 31 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: stone to where you were always meant to be. From 32 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 2: Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast, I'm Mongaish articular. Welcome to Skyland Drive, 33 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: minnesot too. Sam. 34 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: My name is Sam Reynolds. I'm from Buffalo, New York. 35 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 3: I currently live in Santa Fe, New Mexico. I have 36 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 3: been a practicing astrologer for twenty years, and I got 37 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: into astrology trying to disprove it. I was born with 38 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: multiple birth defects and being able to function, to walk, 39 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: to do the things that the doctors predicted I wouldn't 40 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: be able to do. They said that I would be 41 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 3: developmentally delayed. I wasn't, and so I became assigned as 42 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 3: a miracle baby by my family. 43 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: Sam was raised as a Southern Baptist, so he grew 44 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: up knowing that on Judgment Day he would have to 45 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: stand before God and account for his life. 46 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: I did feel a calling, literally, hearing a voice in 47 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: my head, you know, a calling into the ministry saying 48 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 3: I want you to preach. So I went to my 49 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: mother's friends church and the pastor took me under his wing. 50 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: My father didn't fully believe me because I actually was 51 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: a boxer at the time, and so I was boxing 52 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 3: and he kept arranging fights for me, and I was like, no, 53 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: I don't think it's right to kind of beat people 54 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: up on Saturday and then go preach about love on Sunday. 55 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: And he didn't believe me. So my mother suggested we 56 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: write him a letter of resignation, and I wrote him 57 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 3: a letter telling him that I was going into the ministry, 58 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 3: and he was like, oh, I guess. 59 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: This is real. 60 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: I preached my first sermon on my mother's birthday, September 61 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 3: twenty eighth, nineteen eighty. Maybe there were about seventy people there, 62 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: my parents were there and I saw something I had 63 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 3: never seen. After I preached, my father stood up and 64 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 3: testified and he started to cry. My father didn't cry. 65 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: I knew my father had a complicated life. When I 66 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 3: say a complicated life, my father was into the numbers racket. 67 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 3: Before we had state lotteries, there was an underground mostly 68 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: seen as criminal news, work of people who would get 69 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: people to play the numbers for money. I mean it's 70 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: tied to the mob, to the mafia, and so my father, 71 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 3: my father killed people. So for him to cry, I 72 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 3: mean that was you know when you talk about Tony Soprano, 73 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: you see it on TV. He literally lived that life. 74 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 3: And I think that was probably just the first time 75 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 3: out of maybe two times ever saw my father cry 76 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 3: in his life. 77 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: Sam was only twelve when he became a preacher, and 78 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: he fully absorbed this evangelical lesson that astrology is a sin. 79 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: He even preached a sermon warning against its evils. Besides, 80 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: the one time he did look up his horoscope, he 81 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: couldn't tell which sign he really was because his birthday 82 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: fell on the cusp of Scorpio and Sagittarius, and as 83 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: far as he was concerned, it was a sin that 84 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: didn't even make sense. 85 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 3: By the time I went into the ministry, I was 86 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 3: already convinced that astrology was hogwashed. You know, people asked 87 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: me what signer? You know, I'm the sign of the Cross. 88 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: My first year of college, I thought it would be 89 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: cool to take religion classes. Technically that was a mistake 90 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 3: because it made me start questioning my religion. I started 91 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 3: to have a crisis of faith. I started talking to 92 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 3: different ministers because I was like, well, how can I 93 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 3: really preach sincerely when I'm confused. Some of the ministers 94 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: I talked to they were like, it comes with the job, kid. 95 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: My idea was to take a step away from the 96 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: ministry until I would recoup my faith, But my faith 97 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: never came back. By the time I was twenty two, 98 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 3: I had become an atheist. 99 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 2: Newly liberated from his old beliefs. Sam headed to Temple University, 100 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: where he enrolled in the Africa American Studies graduate program. 101 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 2: While he was there, he fell for one of his classmates. 102 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: There was just one problem, and. 103 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 3: She was really into astrology, and I was like, uh, 104 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: you know, well, if I had to choose between being 105 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: an Iraq nid a scorpio and a centaur. Clearly, I'm 106 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 3: a centaur. 107 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: How could sem possibly impress this woman a Gemini who 108 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: teased him about not knowing his own sign. 109 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: She's like, no, I think you're the bug. 110 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: Finally he remembered something. 111 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: There was a book when I was younger that my 112 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 3: great grandmother had. It's called the six seven eight Books 113 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: of Moses. It's supposedly a magical text. 114 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: He figured his crush would be blown away by a 115 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: copy of this strange book, so he starts making calls 116 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: and finally tracks it down at a North Philly bookstore. 117 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: But when he goes to pick it up. 118 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: This guy starts talking to me about astrology and he's 119 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 3: an astrologer. At first I was like, and let me 120 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 3: just get the book, man, but then he's like, oh, 121 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: you ever had your chart done? It was like hmm, okay, 122 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 3: I agreed to get the reading. For the first fifteen minutes, 123 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 3: I was convinced this is BS and he's like, oh, 124 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: it looks like your mom had some problems while carrying you. 125 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 3: In my head, I said, no shit, sir, a lock. 126 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 3: I mean I'm four to nine. Chances are I didn't 127 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: have the normal birth. And then he said, oh, well, 128 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 3: it looks like you're a pretty smart fellow. But again, 129 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: I was thinking, I told you I was in a 130 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 3: PhD program, and then it happened. He said, it looks 131 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 3: like the complications I talked about with your mom may 132 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 3: have been from some involvement with your mother, your brother, 133 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 3: and your father. What do you mean And he's like, yeah, 134 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 3: some issues with your father and your brother happened, and 135 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: then it adversely affected your mother. What I had learned 136 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 3: two months before is that my brother, when he was 137 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: eight years old, my mother was making kissing faces at 138 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 3: him and playing with him. And he said, oh, you're 139 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: doing me like Daddy was with that white woman last night. 140 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 3: And she's like, what are you talking about? And she's like, 141 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 3: Daddy was in the front seat with this white woman 142 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: making kissing noises and doing all this stuff and huffing 143 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: and puffed, and he thought I was sleep but I 144 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 3: was just in the back of the seat listening and 145 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: looking at them. And she was devastated. She caught the 146 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 3: flu early in her pregnancy with me. I guess compromised 147 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: immune system from emotional distress. So what that astrologer was 148 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 3: describing was pretty much exactly as it happened, and I 149 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 3: don't know how he did that. You know, it was 150 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: blown away. And so for me, astrology became this other 151 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 3: way of understanding oneself that was independent of the political sphere. 152 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 3: Even I was like, well, maybe it's an interesting way 153 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: of asking questions. 154 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: These days, Sam still uses astrology to ask questions, but 155 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 2: he's found a lot of answers too. He's a mentor 156 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: to young astrologers just starting out and a co founder 157 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: of the International Society of Black Astrologers. He's developed a 158 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: perspective that's totally him, thoughtful, intellectual, and most of all, 159 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: driven by a desire to connect. 160 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 3: Astrology is the net cultural experience of thousands of years 161 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 3: of looking at the heavens and their correlations in terms 162 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 3: of finding significance in our life. Now you could say, well, 163 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: you're just manufacturing it sure like everything else in your life. 164 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: I'm curious about people. I always have been. I wanted 165 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 3: to understand how people think, why they make the choices 166 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: that they do. Astrology gives me a way to have 167 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 3: discussions with people about themselves. It becomes a conversation about 168 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 3: how the astrology illuminates their lives, rather than I would 169 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 3: say dictates their lives. The word consider comes from Latin 170 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: for con which means with and sadira stars, but means 171 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 3: to think with your stars. So I see astrology as 172 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 3: a way to have a conversation, which is more way 173 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: of reflecting on yourself and your desires and your character. 174 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: The young Sam would be horrified by me being an astrologer, 175 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 3: But what I think would soften him is recognizing some 176 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: measure of his dream for his life, which was to 177 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 3: be communicating and messaging people around the world, being able 178 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: to do what I do and support myself. I think 179 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 3: that was make him proud. But he'd probably like, well, 180 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 3: why can't you do that for Jesus? So I'd probably 181 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 3: be like, yeah, that's a longer conversation. 182 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: Often there's a finality to the way people read astrology, 183 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: that what's destined to happen will happen. But Sam, as 184 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: he puts a he doesn't use an astrological chart to 185 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 2: read your life as a finished biography, but instead as 186 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: a work in process. I love how there's an openness 187 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: to Sam, the way he believes so deeply, but how 188 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: he'll always listen with an open mind, how he doesn't 189 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: hesitate to take in your questions and your qualms and 190 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: to truly consider them because he isn't afraid to change 191 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: in his mind as long as he's thinking with the stars. 192 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: That's it for this week's episode of Skyline Drive. Special 193 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 2: thanks to my team here, Mary Mitro, Mark, Anna and 194 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: Threw for working so hard over the holidays to pull 195 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: the show together, and Botany as always for the incredible soundtrack. 196 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: Also thank you to the wonderful Sam Reynolds for making 197 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: time for us to visit Sam on the web or 198 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: book of reading with him. Be sure to go to 199 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: unlock Astrology dot com. That's unlock astrology dot com. 200 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 4: Also a quick shout out to my pal Laura Mayer, 201 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 4: who did this episode's warning. Laura not only helped us 202 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 4: set up. 203 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: Things when we started Kaleidoscope, but also. 204 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 4: Dropped one of the biggest shows of the year, Shameless 205 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 4: Acquisition Target. It is so funny and if you want 206 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 4: to know everything about the podcast industry from one of 207 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 4: its consummate inside, it is essential listening. 208 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: We'll be back with full length episodes next week, starting 209 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 2: with a writer who just wants to know. 210 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: I had a question about like, who's going to die first? 211 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 2: My mom and our dad because there's an answer that 212 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: I want. 213 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: It's so dark. 214 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 2: I mean, it is dark, but it's also way more 215 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: fun than it sounds. That's it for this week's Minisot. 216 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening.