1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,519 ANNOUNCER: Warning. The following episode includes talk of magical texts, boxing 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,200 ANNOUNCER: the mafia, and how a child preacher who railed against 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:14,720 ANNOUNCER: astrology found his path in the stars. Sensitive listeners take care. 4 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,680 MANGESH: At the very beginning of the show, we set out 5 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,760 MANGESH: to find people with unusual stories biographies that up ended 6 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,960 MANGESH: our understanding of astrology. And so my colleagues Mary and Mitra, 7 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,520 MANGESH: they went looking for all sorts of folks, right like 8 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,360 MANGESH: finance bros who believed in astrology, cheesemongers used the stars 9 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,760 MANGESH: to guide their process, towns that have built their entire 10 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,920 MANGESH: identity around astrology. And then one day Mary said to me, 11 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,200 MANGESH: I think that is a community of ex evangelicals who 12 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,400 MANGESH: fled the church and now they put their entire faith 13 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,480 MANGESH: in the stars. And you know, I was immediately fascinated, 14 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,360 MANGESH: right like, how do you walk away from one set 15 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,240 MANGESH: of really strong beliefs and then dive headfirst into another. 16 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,080 MANGESH: What type of person decides to do that? And what 17 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,479 MANGESH: are the circumstances that help you find your faith again? 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,959 MANGESH: And that's how we found Sam Reynolds. I went to 19 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,440 MANGESH: an astrologer, a gemini. Sam is an extraordinary person, and 20 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,160 MANGESH: the truth is, he's got a story I can't stop 21 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,680 MANGESH: thinking about at birth, his parents were told he wouldn't 22 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,240 MANGESH: walk as a child. He wasn't supposed to become a 23 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,119 MANGESH: preacher in college. He wasn't supposed to question his faith 24 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,360 MANGESH: or take comfort in astrology. But Sam is kind of 25 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,320 MANGESH: defied expectations at every point of his life. And what 26 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,840 MANGESH: makes him so fascinating to me at least is that 27 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,280 MANGESH: in this search for faith and love and a truer 28 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,920 MANGESH: understanding of humanity, he moves with such grace and assured 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,960 MANGESH: nous and the past. For him it never seems to 30 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,200 MANGESH: be a mistake, like just a stepping stone to where 31 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,480 MANGESH: you were always meant to be. From Kaleidoscope and I 32 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:52,600 MANGESH: Heart Podcast, I'm Mangesh Hattikudur. Welcome to Skyline Drive: Minisode Two. 33 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,440 SAM: Sam. My name is Sam Reynolds. I'm from Buffalo, New York. 34 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,480 SAM: I currently live in Santa Fe, New Mexico. I have 35 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:07,239 SAM: been a practicing astrologer for twenty years, and I got 36 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,040 SAM: into astrology trying to disprove it. I was born with 37 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,520 SAM: multiple birth defects and being able to function, to walk, 38 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,120 SAM: to do the things that the doctors predicted I wouldn't 39 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,359 SAM: be able to do. They said that I would be 40 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:25,640 SAM: developmentally delayed. I wasn't, and so I became assigned as 41 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,640 SAM: a miracle baby by my family. 42 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,959 MANGESH: Sam was raised as a Southern Baptist, so he grew 43 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,280 MANGESH: up knowing that on Judgment Day he would have to 44 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,640 MANGESH: stand before God and account for his life. 45 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,080 SAM: I did feel a calling, literally, hearing a voice in 46 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,600 SAM: my head, you know, a calling into the ministry saying 47 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,360 SAM: I went you to preach. So I went to my 48 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,600 SAM: mother's friends church, and the pastor took me under his wing. 49 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,640 SAM: My father didn't fully believe me because I actually was 50 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,760 SAM: a boxer at the time, and so I was boxing 51 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,760 SAM: and he kept arranging fights for me, and I was like, no, 52 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,760 SAM: I don't think it's right to kind of beat people 53 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,360 SAM: up on Saturday and then go preach about love on Sunday. 54 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,600 SAM: And he um didn't believe me. So my mother suggested 55 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,360 SAM: would write him a letter of resignation. And I wrote 56 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,000 SAM: him a letter telling him that I was going against 57 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:19,840 SAM: the ministry, and he was like, oh, I guess this 58 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:25,560 SAM: is real. I preached my first sermon on my mother's birthday, 59 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:31,480 SAM: septem maybe. There were about seventy people there. My parents 60 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,880 SAM: were there, and I saw something I had never seen. 61 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,839 SAM: After I preached, my father stood up and testified and 62 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,440 SAM: he started to cry. My father didn't cry. I knew 63 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,680 SAM: my father had a complicated life. When I say a 64 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:54,240 SAM: complicated life, my father was into the numbers racket. Before 65 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:59,080 SAM: we had state lotteries, there was an underground mostly seen 66 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,640 SAM: as criminal ne work of people who would give people 67 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,159 SAM: to play the numbers for money. I mean it's tied 68 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,719 SAM: to the mob, to the mafia, and so my father, 69 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:15,560 SAM: my father killed people. So for him too to cry, 70 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,440 SAM: I mean that was you know when you talk about 71 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,920 SAM: Tony Soprano, you see it on TV. He literally lived 72 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,919 SAM: that life. And I think that was probably just the 73 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,960 SAM: first time out of maybe two times I ever saw 74 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,920 SAM: my father cry in his life. 75 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,760 MANGESH: Sam was only twelve when he became a preacher, and 76 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,800 MANGESH: he fully absorbed this evangelical lesson that astrology is a sin. 77 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,360 MANGESH: He even preached a sermon warning against its evils. Besides, 78 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,600 MANGESH: the one time he did look up his horoscope, he 79 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,159 MANGESH: couldn't tell which sign he really was because his birthday 80 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,360 MANGESH: fell on the cusp of Scorpio and Sagittarius, And as 81 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,960 MANGESH: far as he was concerned, it was a sin that 82 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,200 MANGESH: didn't even make sense. 83 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,520 SAM: By the time I went into the ministry, I was 84 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,320 SAM: already convinced that astrology was hogwashed. You know, people asked 85 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,480 SAM: me what signer? You know, I'm the sign of the Cross. 86 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,640 SAM: My first year of college, I thought it would be 87 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,359 SAM: cool to take religion classes. Technically that was a mistake 88 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,200 SAM: because it made me start questioning my religion. I started 89 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,560 SAM: to have a crisis of faith. I started talking to 90 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,520 SAM: different ministers because I was like, well, how can I 91 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:40,600 SAM: really preach sincerely when I'm confused. Some of the ministers 92 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,840 SAM: I talked to, they were like, and it comes with 93 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,880 SAM: the job kit. My idea was to take a step 94 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,719 SAM: away from the ministry until I would recoup my faith. 95 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,240 SAM: But my faith never came back. By the time I 96 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,200 SAM: was twenty two, I had become an atheist. 97 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,600 MANGESH: Newly liberated from his old beliefs, Sam headed to Temple University, 98 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,600 MANGESH: where he enrolled in the Africa An American Studies graduate program. 99 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,280 MANGESH: While he was there, he felt for one of his classmates. 100 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,039 SAM: There was just one problem, and she was really into astrology, 101 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,400 SAM: and I was like, uh, you know, well, if I 102 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,360 SAM: had to choose between being an arachnid, a scorpio, and 103 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,040 SAM: a centaur, clearly on a centaur. 104 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,920 MANGESH: How could Sam possibly impress this woman a Gemini who 105 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,160 MANGESH: teased him about not knowing his own sign. 106 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,320 MANGESH: She's like, no, I think you're the bug. 107 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,000 MANGESH: Finally he remembered something. 108 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,600 SAM: There was a book when I was younger that my 109 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,520 SAM: great grandmother had. It's called the sixth and seventh Books of Moses. 110 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,040 SAM: It's a supposedly a magical text. 111 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,600 MANGESH: He figured his crush would be blown away by a 112 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,560 MANGESH: copy of this strange book, so he starts making calls 113 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,600 MANGESH: and finally tracks it down at a North Philly bookstore. 114 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:47,560 MANGESH: But when he goes to pick it up, 115 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,280 SAM: This guy starts talking to me about astrology and he's 116 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,280 SAM: an astrologer. At first I was like, and let me 117 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,480 SAM: just get the book, man, but then he's like, oh, 118 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,880 SAM: you ever had your chart done? It was like okay, 119 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,440 SAM: I agreed to get the reading. For the first fifty minutes, 120 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,080 SAM: I was convinced this is BS and he's like, oh, 121 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,680 SAM: it looks like your mom had some problems while carrying you. 122 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,360 SAM: In my head, I said, no, shit Sherlock, I mean, 123 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,600 SAM: I'm four, nine chances are I didn't have the normal birth. 124 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,000 SAM: And then he said, oh, well, it looks like you're 125 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,760 SAM: a pretty smart fellow. But again I was thinking, I 126 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,400 SAM: told you I was in the PhD program, and then 127 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,240 SAM: it happened. He said, it looks like the complications they 128 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,440 SAM: talked about what your mom may have been from some 129 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,960 SAM: involvement with your mother, your brother, and your father. What 130 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,439 SAM: do you mean, And he's like, yeah, some issues with 131 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,480 SAM: your father and your brother happened and then adversely affected 132 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,280 SAM: your mother. What I had learned two months before is 133 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:49,560 SAM: that my brother, when he was eight years old, my 134 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,400 SAM: mother was making kissing faces at him and playing with him. 135 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,520 SAM: And he said, oh, you're doing me like Daddy was 136 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,120 SAM: with that white women last night. And she's like, what 137 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,400 SAM: are you talking about, And she's like, Daddy was in 138 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,319 SAM: the front seat with this white woman making U kissing 139 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,400 SAM: noises and doing all this stuff and huffing and puffed. 140 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,760 SAM: He thought I was asleep, but I was just in 141 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,720 SAM: the back of the seat listening and looking at them. 142 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:19,360 SAM: And she was devastated. She caught the flu early in 143 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:24,439 SAM: her pregnancy with me. I guess compromised immune system from 144 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,920 SAM: emotional distress. So what that astrologer was describing was pretty 145 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,160 SAM: much exactly as it happened. And I don't know how 146 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,960 SAM: he did that, you know, I was blown away, and 147 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:42,880 SAM: so for me astrology became this other way of understanding 148 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,440 SAM: oneself that was independent of the political sphere. Even I 149 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,760 SAM: was like, well, maybe it's an interesting way of asking questions. 150 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,120 MANGESH: These days, Sam still uses astrology to ask questions, but 151 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,920 MANGESH: he's found a lot of answers too. He's a mentor 152 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,080 MANGESH: to young astrologers just starting out and a co founder 153 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,960 MANGESH: of the International Society of Black Astrologers. He's developed a 154 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:21,560 MANGESH: perspective that's totally him, thoughtful, intellectual, and most of all, 155 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,560 MANGESH: driven by a desire to connect. 156 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:31,040 SAM: Astrology is the net cultural experience of thousands of years 157 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,960 SAM: of looking at the heavens and their correlations in terms 158 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,640 SAM: of finding significance in our life. Now you could say, well, 159 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,959 SAM: you're just manufacturing it sure like everything else in your life. 160 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,480 SAM: I'm curious about people. I always have been. I wanted 161 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,319 SAM: to understand how people think, why they make the choices 162 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,599 SAM: that they do. So astrology gives me a way to 163 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:02,080 SAM: have discussions with people about themselves. It becomes a conversation 164 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,439 SAM: about how the astrology illuminates their lives rather than I 165 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,839 SAM: would say dictates their lives. The word consider it comes 166 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,040 SAM: from Latin for con which means with and sidire stars, 167 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,520 SAM: but means to think with your stars. So I see 168 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,400 SAM: astrology as a way to have a conversation, which is 169 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,080 SAM: more way of reflecting on yourself and your desires and 170 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:33,280 SAM: your character. The young Sam would be horrified by me 171 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:40,439 SAM: being an astrologer. But what I think would soften him 172 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,000 SAM: is recognizing some measure of his dream for his life, 173 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:52,800 SAM: which was to be communicating and messaging people around the world, 174 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,479 SAM: being able to do what I do and support myself. 175 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,880 SAM: I think that was making proud, but he probably like, well, 176 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:05,200 SAM: why can't you do that for Jesus? So um, I'd 177 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,600 SAM: probably like, you know, that's a longer conversation. 178 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,520 MANGESH: Often there's a finality to the way people read astrology, 179 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:33,080 MANGESH: that what's destined to happen will happen. But Sam, as 180 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,679 MANGESH: he puts it, he doesn't use an astrological chart to 181 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,280 MANGESH: read your life as a finished biography, but instead as 182 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,040 MANGESH: a work in process. I love how there's an openness 183 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,880 MANGESH: to Sam, the way he believes so deeply, but how 184 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,320 MANGESH: he'll always listen with an open mind, how he doesn't 185 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,360 MANGESH: hesitate to take in your questions and your qualms and 186 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,000 MANGESH: to truly consider them because he isn't afraid to change 187 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:13,199 MANGESH: in his mind as long as he's thinking with the stars. 188 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,600 MANGESH: That's it for this week's episode of Skyline Drive. Special 189 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,720 MANGESH: thanks to my team here, Mary, Mitra, Mark, Anna and 190 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,680 MANGESH: Drew for working so hard over the holidays to pull 191 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,199 MANGESH: the show together, and Botany as always for the incredible soundtrack. 192 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,959 MANGESH: Also thank you to the wonderful Sam Reynolds for making 193 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,880 MANGESH: time for us to visit Sam on the web or 194 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,400 MANGESH: book reading with him. Be sure to go to Unlock 195 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,079 MANGESH: Astrology dot com. That's Unlock astrology dot com. Also a 196 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,320 MANGESH: quick shout out to my pal Laura Mayer, who did 197 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,040 MANGESH: this episode's warning, Laura not only helped us set up 198 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,559 MANGESH: things when we started Kaleidoscope, but also dropped one of 199 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,679 MANGESH: the biggest shows of the year, Shameless Acquisition Target. It 200 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,160 MANGESH: is so funny and if you want to know everything 201 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,400 MANGESH: about the podcast industry from one of its consummate insiders, 202 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,280 MANGESH: it is essential listening. We'll be back with full length 203 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,280 MANGESH: episodes next week, starting with a writer who just wants 204 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,480 MANGESH: to know. I had a question about like who's going 205 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,480 MANGESH: to die first, my mom and my dad, because there's 206 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:21,320 MANGESH: an answer that I want it's so dark. I mean, 207 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,520 MANGESH: it is dark, but it's also way more fun that 208 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,920 MANGESH: it sounds. That's it for this week's minisode. Thank you 209 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,040 MANGESH: so much for listening.