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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Dave Elizabeth, Dave Dave.

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Speaker 3: Guess what It's just us again. Yeah, and I have

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Speaker 3: a question for you. Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 4: I do?

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Speaker 5: Here?

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Speaker 6: Let me I'm going to ask you this in two ways. First,

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Speaker 6: have you ever loved a building?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Sure, Well let me ask you in the.

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Speaker 5: In the other way before you go in.

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Speaker 6: Mm hmmm, tell me have you ever really, really really

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Speaker 6: ever loved the building?

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Speaker 7: No?

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Speaker 3: I definitely have.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what building have you loved?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I've loved an old home that I

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Speaker 3: lived in. I've loved you know, I really I really

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Speaker 3: loved my high school building.

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Speaker 2: I mean like, i'm's beautiful?

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Speaker 3: Really did I really?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Not like love love I admired from a distance. I

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Speaker 3: think I know where you're going with this, and I

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Speaker 3: think this is not going to be kosher.

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Speaker 5: Well it is.

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Speaker 2: It is not a mashup, So I'll tell you that.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Well that's but there is a woman. She was

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Speaker 5: named Erica LaBrie.

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Speaker 6: She she loved a building, I mean like really really

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Speaker 6: loved like she had feelings for a bit.

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Speaker 5: I will give you a hint as to which building

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Speaker 5: she loved.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 5: After she got married, she changed her name to Erica Eiffel.

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Speaker 3: Stop yes, why do we allow these things?

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Speaker 6: She's also known as Aya. She is an American competitive archer.

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Speaker 6: She actually did marry the Eiffel Tower in a commitment

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Speaker 6: ceremony in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 3: Oh good for her.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 6: It's not like somebody was like, I knew this would

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Speaker 6: bug you. I knew it. It's just like the equivalent

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Speaker 6: of a mashup is like, let me get you into

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Speaker 6: a funky sexual.

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Speaker 3: Thing that no, I mean, that's the thing is that

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Speaker 3: the equivalent of a mashup for me is like some

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Speaker 3: weird I'm quirky like activity, and my irritation with it

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Speaker 3: makes people upset. And yet you and Zaren find this

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Speaker 3: very entertaining, so go on.

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Speaker 6: So And it's not like somebody was like, oh, you

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Speaker 6: love the Eiffel Tower so much, why don't you marry it?

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Speaker 5: And she's like, Okay, I will.

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Speaker 6: She married the Eiffel Tower in a commitment ceremony in

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Speaker 6: two thousand and seven. This isn't even like a long

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Speaker 6: time ago. Erica Eifel is a competitive archery archer. She's

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Speaker 6: a really good archer, she won championship. She went since

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Speaker 6: she went to the Olympics. She won gold in two

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Speaker 6: thousand and seven, and first she fell in love with

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Speaker 6: her bow, who she called Lance, her compound bow, and

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Speaker 6: was like Lance, Yeah, yeah, this relationship with Lance is

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Speaker 6: what helped me become a world class archer. Lance understands me.

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Speaker 6: She then went on to found os Internetia Now, which

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Speaker 6: is an objectum sexuality where she believes in developing significant

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Speaker 6: relationships with inanimate objects. She says she encountered the Eiffel

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Speaker 6: Tower in two thousand and four, she felt an immediate attraction.

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Speaker 2: She said.

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Speaker 6: She told ABC News that she and others quote feel

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Speaker 6: an innate connection to objects. It comes perfectly normal to

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Speaker 6: us to connect on various levels emotional, spiritual, and also

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Speaker 6: physical for something.

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Speaker 3: Wait, okay, so you know you're just you're you've spent

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Speaker 3: all this money to go on vacation to France, to

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Speaker 3: go to Paris. It's just like dream vacation of a lifetime.

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Speaker 3: And you're walking up and you go to look at

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Speaker 3: the Eiffel Tower to Tillifel and there's some lady rubbing

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Speaker 3: up on it, and you're like wait a second, no, stop, Well.

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Speaker 6: Think about her, She's like, oh that's oh, that's oh,

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Speaker 6: like it hit her like at three different levels.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh.

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Speaker 2: And this was like a.

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Speaker 6: Big deal enough she uh, well, you may not host

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Speaker 6: her on Ridiculous Crime. But in April of two thousand

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Speaker 6: and nine, she got on Good Morning America. This was

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Speaker 6: the second anniversary of her wedding, and she explained how

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Speaker 6: her object love empowered her. And there's another structure that

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Speaker 6: she fell in love with. She had a twenty year

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Speaker 6: relationship with the Berlin Wall and there's a musical called

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Speaker 6: Erica's Wall that really details that.

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Speaker 3: So you got, oh wait, so she's like the Elizabeth Taylor.

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Speaker 5: Of architecture or like the Henry the Eighth.

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Speaker 3: So I you know, I used to always say, as

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Speaker 3: long as you're not hurting anybody, and then we entered

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Speaker 3: the Summer of Dark, Elizabeth trying so hard to get

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Speaker 3: out of it, and it's really really difficult for me

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Speaker 3: when you tell me stories like this. Well, but you know,

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Speaker 3: if she's not hurting anybody, fine, See I can't say that.

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Speaker 3: Like with the furries, if you're a furry and you're

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Speaker 3: not hurting anyone, go forth. But if you're trashing a

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Speaker 3: hotel and being disgusting. Okay, then I can pass judgment.

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Speaker 5: That's fair. And with the.

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Speaker 3: Pokemon folks, who I apparently really riled up. If you're

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Speaker 3: making it so that kids can't get the cards because

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Speaker 3: you've driven the price up, then I'm irritated. But you know, otherwise,

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Speaker 3: do your thing whatever. I don't care anymore.

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Speaker 5: I like that. That's good, thank you.

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Speaker 6: What about what about say like a hunchback and I

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Speaker 6: use that term in a literary sense.

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Speaker 3: I I love them.

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Speaker 6: Some of the this OS group, this OS what was it.

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Speaker 3: Called something about the sexul International, Yeah, objective sexuality, the calculatist,

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Speaker 3: bisexual excuse me, the bisexual calculator.

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Speaker 6: So one of the scholars that hooks onto this says

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Speaker 6: that they see OS like behavior in classical literature, for example,

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Speaker 6: in Victor Who's eighteen thirty one novel The Hunchback of

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Speaker 6: Notre Dame, and I quote.

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Speaker 5: Quasimoto, love the bells, caress them, talk to them, understood them.

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Speaker 5: From the carry on and the steeple of the transsept

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Speaker 5: to the great bell over the doorway, they all shared

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Speaker 5: his love. Claude Frolo has made the bell ringer of

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Speaker 5: Notre Dame, and to give the Great Bell in marriage

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Speaker 5: to Quasimoto was to give Juliette Delomeo. M I'm just

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Speaker 5: gonna leave you with that.

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Speaker 3: You know, Quasimoto had a lot going on, cut him

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Speaker 3: a lot of slack. As one hundred percent ridiculous, you've gone,

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Speaker 3: You've gone beyond one hundred percent ridiculous. You're into the

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Speaker 3: one thousand percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: I'll take you.

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Speaker 3: Do you want to know what else is ridiculous?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, give me like two thousand percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Being the first person in US history to receive a

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Speaker 3: life sentence in solitary confinement for prison escapes. Ouch, ouch,

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Speaker 3: this is ridiculous crime. A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.

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Speaker 3: Heis and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free

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Speaker 3: and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: You know you said that.

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Speaker 3: I know, I totally just said that. I have a

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Speaker 3: fascinating story for you today, Captain d You ever seen

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Speaker 3: the movie I Love You Philip Morris?

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Speaker 5: I have not. I have seen I Love You. You're

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Speaker 5: perfect now change.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I've not seen that. This isn't about the tobacco

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Speaker 3: company Philip Morris, which when I saw it, I thought

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Speaker 3: that that's what it was about. But it's based on

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Speaker 3: a real guy. Stephen J. Russell. Like I said, I

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Speaker 3: didn't see the movie. It came out in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and nine. I don't know what I was doing that year.

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Speaker 3: I haven't watched the movie anyway. It's fictionalization and I

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Speaker 3: generally don't watch stuff like that when I'm researching my

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Speaker 3: little stories because I like to stick purely to the

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Speaker 3: news accounts and like maybe a book or memoir. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: Stephen J. Russell, So, I am so intrigued by this guy.

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Speaker 3: He's complex, Dave, he contains multitudes.

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Speaker 2: Oh, this is exciting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. He was born in North Carolina in nineteen fifty seven.

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Speaker 3: Good guy. He was adopted right after his birth by

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Speaker 3: a family in Virginia. And this family they ran like

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Speaker 3: a produce business, And when he was nine, they told

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Speaker 3: him that he was adopted. And this was really tough

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Speaker 3: for him, even though the family did their very best,

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Speaker 3: Like they broke the news to him in a really

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Speaker 3: gentle way, and they made sure that he understood that

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Speaker 3: they were there for him as he processed it, which

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Speaker 3: is like seems like pretty progressive for the time.

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Speaker 5: Was he adopted?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was adopted.

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Speaker 2: They wanted to like some big mean joke.

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Speaker 3: They're like, Okay, here's what we're going to do. We're

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Speaker 3: going to convince him, honey, you're adopted. No, he really

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Speaker 3: was adopted. Adopted it they're good people. He later learned

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Speaker 3: that his birth mother, who was unmarried when he was born,

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Speaker 3: eventually married his birth father and they even had more

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Speaker 3: children together, but they never made an attempt to kind

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Speaker 3: of like reach out, get him back, get in touch

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Speaker 3: even and so he said, quote, I felt rejected. I

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Speaker 3: had a little bit of a problem when I found out. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, he tried really hard to be a good kid,

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Speaker 3: but he was troubled and like his parents had his

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Speaker 3: IQ taken one sixty three. Super smart kid, yeah, super

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Speaker 3: smart kid, but he's troubled. And it was by more

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Speaker 3: than just the adoption thing. Like he started setting fires,

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Speaker 3: which is no bueno TI. Yeah, that's a very bad

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Speaker 3: So he's like thirteen, like his firebug ways are getting

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Speaker 3: him sent to this place called Hanover Boys Home, and

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Speaker 3: the place was absolutely terrible, of course, but it was

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Speaker 3: there that he figured something out about himself. He realized

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Speaker 3: he was gay. And so this is the early seventies

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Speaker 3: in the South, not the easiest place to be, Oh no,

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Speaker 3: but he did his best to just blend in hide

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Speaker 3: who he was. So he started working for the family

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Speaker 3: produce business. As soon as he turned eighteen, he volunteered

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Speaker 3: as a reserve sheriff's deputy. He even he played the

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Speaker 3: organ for his church.

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Speaker 2: Wow, he was an upstanding citizen.

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Speaker 3: Right nineteen seventy six, he marries Debbie Davis, the daughter

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Speaker 3: of the police chief's secretary, and so then two years

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Speaker 3: later they have this daughter named Stephanie. And then not

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Speaker 3: long after that, I believe it was like right after

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Speaker 3: his adopted father passed away, he just couldn't hide his

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Speaker 3: truth anymore. So he came out to his wife and

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Speaker 3: the two of them got divorced. This is what he said. Quote.

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Speaker 3: People use the term sham marriage, but I don't think

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Speaker 3: it was a sham because there was a sexual attraction

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Speaker 3: towards women, but there was always a stronger attraction towards men.

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Speaker 3: I finally let go, and it became easier to deal

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Speaker 3: with my sexuality because I wasn't trying to hide it.

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Speaker 3: So complex guy, Yeah, yeah, So he tried. He tried

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Speaker 3: to earn an honest living. He moved out to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: He became a sales manager at this like food company

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Speaker 3: and after a while his manager learned that he was gay,

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Speaker 3: and he the response was he fires Stephen Russell immediately.

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Speaker 3: And then yeah, so Russell says, quote, when I lost

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Speaker 3: my job, that really screwed with my head. I lost

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Speaker 3: control of my life. I would never put myself or

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Speaker 3: anyone else through that. Instead of feeling sorry for myself

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Speaker 3: when I lost my job, I would have got another job.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know how to react because I was angry.

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Speaker 3: I'm not angry anymore. So it's that loss of control

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Speaker 3: that's so key here. The guy had a bad run

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Speaker 3: as a kid. He did his best to get on track,

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Speaker 3: and that meant hiding who he was, which damaged him

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Speaker 3: and his wife and his kid. Like, there are no

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Speaker 3: winners at this point, and I think that even though

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Speaker 3: it was painful, he really did the honorable and brave

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Speaker 3: thing by you know, by his wife in coming out.

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Speaker 3: And here he is, He's trying to keep on track.

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Speaker 3: He wants to work hard, become a productive member of society.

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Speaker 3: And then something that he has that has absolutely nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with him as a professional or a worker

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Speaker 3: or a member of staff gets them fired, and I mean,

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Speaker 3: we have laws against that now, but it still happens.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and I'm sure it happened all the time

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Speaker 2: back then. You're terrifying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm so I'm so pained by people harming

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Speaker 3: others out of their own imagined fears, right because like

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Speaker 3: they're just afraid of something because it's different. And that's

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Speaker 3: just like that hurts my heart anyway. So there's Stephen Russell.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Like I was just going to say, for rude dudes,

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Speaker 6: like rud dudes who are older will remember the show

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Speaker 6: Three's Company from the eighties when he was younger. They

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Speaker 6: might not, but even as recently the eighties, like go

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Speaker 6: watch that sitcom and it's a very funny show and

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Speaker 6: very thoughtful show, and like it just gives you a

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Speaker 6: sense of the stigma of being gay at the time.

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Speaker 6: And how like it was this running joke of the

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Speaker 6: show of like, oh there's Jack, he might he must

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Speaker 6: be a little you know, and they all these different

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Speaker 6: terrible epithets with like mm hmm. You wouldn't do that now,

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Speaker 6: but like it was like a punchline in the.

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Speaker 3: Eighties totally, and it was like, these are people's lives, right.

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Speaker 3: So he's out of a job, he's crapped on by society,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, he turned to crime. Now luckily

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Speaker 3: he's not setting fires, not wanton destruction. He turns to

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Speaker 3: cons and I feel like this is his middle finger

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Speaker 3: to the world, like you don't want me to participate, fine,

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Speaker 3: I won't. So he starts selling fake Rolex watches, which

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Speaker 3: is like, is it wrong that I kind of want

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Speaker 3: a fake.

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Speaker 6: Roles I actually, for a brief period of time I

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Speaker 6: had one when I was a student in New York,

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Speaker 6: like oh yeah. Then there were those guys like down

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Speaker 6: in Times Square and like yeah, and the village, especially

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Speaker 6: in Chinatown, and it was like it wasn't fooling anybody.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was ten dollars.

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Speaker 6: Clear and like really heavy, like heavier than a watch

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Speaker 6: should be because it probably made of lead or something.

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Speaker 2: But it was fun. It's cool to have like that

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Speaker 2: in a fake ID.

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Speaker 3: I love fig I used to have a phone case

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Speaker 3: that said Gucci but it was Guccy and I love

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Speaker 3: obviously knockoff stuff. My friend Ave Linda, she's a fashion

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Speaker 3: scholar and she used to be an authenticator, and my

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Speaker 3: love of bad fakes gives her aneurysms like I just

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Speaker 3: I love bad fakes. I want a fake Rolex anyway, Russell.

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Speaker 3: So he would fake slip and fall accidents like stuff

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Speaker 3: like that. He defrauded in Russell.

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Speaker 2: It's like sliping Jimmy exactly.

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Speaker 3: He defrauded an insurance company out of forty five thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars good good haul nineteen ninety two. He turned in

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Speaker 3: a fake passport application and that's what got inbusted, like

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Speaker 3: he couldn't pull that off. And for the for that though,

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Speaker 3: he got a ten year sentence in Harris County Jail

285
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Speaker 3: in Texas. And here's what he had to say. Quote

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Speaker 3: keep in mind that Texas was asking me to serve

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Speaker 3: ten years for insurance fraud, another six months for passport fraud,

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Speaker 3: and Virginia wanted ninety days of jail time for me

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Speaker 3: for theft. By the time I was to get out

290
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Speaker 3: of prison, Jim would be dead. Dave, Who's Jim?

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Speaker 5: That's That's what I was a good question.

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Speaker 2: Who's Jim.

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Speaker 3: Jim was James Kempel, That was his boyfriend, and Jim

294
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Speaker 3: had tested positive for HIV, which at the time was

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Speaker 3: a death sentence. So there's Russell in prison. The person

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Speaker 3: he loves is on limited time. He's going to be

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Speaker 3: locked up and miss out on the years they could

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Speaker 3: have had together. And it's it's not just that they're apart,

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Speaker 3: they're a part in his partner's suffering. And so I mean, like, yeah,

300
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Speaker 3: Russell needs to face the consequences of his actions. But

301
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Speaker 3: it's a sad tale all around.

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Speaker 6: And back then, would you have like you had payphones

303
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Speaker 6: and you had letters, like that's the way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Russell decides to do something about it.

305
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Speaker 3: And I've been bumming you out until now, Dave, my

306
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 3: good dude, let's get ridiculous. So Russell he starts by

307
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Speaker 3: studying the shift patterns of the guards in the prison,

308
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,240
Speaker 3: and he made note of the comings and goings. He

309
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,960
Speaker 3: watched their routines and their manner. And one day he

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Speaker 3: came across a room and in it were all of

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Speaker 3: the personal effects of the female inmates on the other

312
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Speaker 3: side of the jail. So we rifled through the stuff.

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Speaker 3: He found a pair of sweatpants that would fit him,

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Speaker 3: and I should note the guy's six foot two, and

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Speaker 3: so then he found the only shirt that he could

316
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Speaker 3: find that would fit him was a tie dyed shirt.

317
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Speaker 3: So he grabs them both and like secrets them away

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Speaker 3: in his cell. And another thing he managed to nab

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Speaker 3: at some point was a walkie talkie used by the guards.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea how he landed that, but he

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Speaker 3: did so with civilian traders.

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Speaker 5: He must have traded right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly so with civilian clothes in the radio he

324
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Speaker 3: made his move. Dave's closed eyes.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I never get to do this.

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Speaker 2: I'm closing my eyes.

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Speaker 3: I want you to picture it. You are a correctional

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Speaker 3: officers radio. You're old, battered. You've been dropped and skidded

329
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Speaker 3: along cold, polished cement floors. You've been ripped in sweaty hands.

330
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Speaker 3: You've been perched atop toilet paper dispensers while your owner

331
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Speaker 3: took a dump. You're wrapped in electrical tape to keep

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Speaker 3: your sides from splitting. You've heard and relayed some crazy

333
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 3: stuff over the years, fights, medical emergencies, gossip, jokes. Life

334
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 3: has been hard. Someone dropped you behind a bookshelf in

335
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,639
Speaker 3: the jail library a couple weeks ago. Oh, your power

336
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,160
Speaker 3: switched knocked to off when you fell, and you sat

337
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 3: silent the soft steps of inmates and coos passed you

338
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 3: by on the carpet, but you were unnoticed until Stephen

339
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,720
Speaker 3: Russell saw you. He scooped you up and tucked you

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00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 3: under his shirt. Back in his cell, he flipped your

341
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 3: switch to on. You crackled to life. He quickly turned

342
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 3: your volume all the way down, then powered you off.

343
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 3: Then he tucked you into a box under his buck,

344
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,359
Speaker 3: and there you sat. You wondered what would happen next,

345
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,160
Speaker 3: where you'd go. You figured guards would inspect to Sell

346
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,119
Speaker 3: at some point and find you, and you'd be returned

347
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 3: to your life of germs and hip holsters and noise

348
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 3: and clatter. But for now things are blessedly silent. Until

349
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 3: they weren't. One day, you're removed from the box. There's Russell,

350
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 3: clad in his prison uniform, but you see sweatpants and

351
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 3: a tied eyed shirt peeking out from underneath. He tucks

352
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 3: you under his shirt and nestled in the dark between

353
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 3: the tied eye and an undershirt. You feel a little claustrophobic,

354
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,879
Speaker 3: but also weirdly comforted. Russell makes his way to the

355
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Speaker 3: common area and then ducks into an alcove, removing the

356
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 3: jail uniform as he watches the guards go on their

357
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 3: usual smoke break. He walks over to the door leading outside.

358
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,679
Speaker 3: There's a windowed booth next to it. He lifts you

359
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 3: up and taps you against the window. You've made this

360
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 3: move a million times. The guard looks out and sees

361
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 3: a man in civilian clothes, admittedly strange and casual ones,

362
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 3: probably undercover. The guard thinks. He nods his head and

363
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 3: buzzes the lock open. Russell walks out the door and

364
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,399
Speaker 3: into the parking lot. You in his hand. He takes

365
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,639
Speaker 3: a deep breath. Birds chirp, cars whiz by on a

366
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 3: nearby highway. He's free, and so are you. You've never

367
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 3: really been out here, out in the world. It's exhilarating,

368
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 3: so bright, so fresh. Russell turns up your volume and

369
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 3: listens for any mention of his escape. Nothing. He sets

370
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 3: you on a fence post as he walks out of

371
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,439
Speaker 3: the jail parking lot and into the world. Goodbye, you

372
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 3: try to tell him, but he's already gone. So hustle,

373
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 3: Russell made his way to Jim. The two of them

374
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 3: fled to Mexico. They lived there for a while, but

375
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 3: then Jim's health got really bad and they had to

376
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,400
Speaker 3: come back to the States so he could get better treatment.

377
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 3: So they get back. Russell tried to make some money

378
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 3: for the couple to live off by committing insurance fraud

379
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 3: and they'd been on the run for two years at

380
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 3: this point, but he got busted. Russell sent to jail

381
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 3: and Jim died a few weeks later, so he's heartbroken

382
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 3: behind bars. But then things changed on both fronts. Let's

383
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 3: take a break and we come back. We'll see what

384
00:19:51,800 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 3: new adventures awaited. Stephen Jay Russell. Yes, Dave, Dave, Dave,

385
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 3: we're back. Okay, nineteen ninety five is where we are now,

386
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 3: great year, Russell.

387
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 2: Do you have a walkman? Do I have a disc man?

388
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 5: Like? What do I have?

389
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 3: Sort of a discman? And you're wearing like super baggy

390
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 3: jeans and like.

391
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 6: A really bright like club shirt, like a like a

392
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 6: shiny blue shirt for ye clubs.

393
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, we're right there. So Stephen J. Russell, he's

394
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 3: in jail, he's just lost his partner, but he meets

395
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 3: someone new. He met fellow inmate Philip Morris, so pretty

396
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 3: soon the two begin a relationship. This is how Russell

397
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 3: described it quote. I didn't think it was possible. I

398
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 3: mean we were in prison. He was softly spoken with

399
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 3: a deep Southern accent. I saw him in the law

400
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 3: library trying to get a book. He's short, He's only

401
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 3: five foot two and I'm six foot two, and I said,

402
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 3: hold on, I'll get that for you. And that was it.

403
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,959
Speaker 3: He's very intelligent. He loves fishing and four wheel driving.

404
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 3: He loves music classical like Bach and Beethoven and Mozart.

405
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 3: He's like a little mess. He's a diabetic, but he'll

406
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,360
Speaker 3: go out and buy twelve donuts and eat them all

407
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 3: at once.

408
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 2: So strangely, he didn't smoke.

409
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,360
Speaker 3: Right, and so we have another like, you know, very complex,

410
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 3: but you know, interesting guy. So what was Morrison for?

411
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 3: Thank you for asking, Dave. He failed to return a

412
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 3: rental car and so wow, I.

413
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 6: Didn't realize I would figure they find you.

414
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 3: But I mean, like maybe he sold it. I don't know.

415
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 3: But so Russell and Morris, they were both paroled later

416
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 3: that year, and so they get out at the same time.

417
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 3: They stay together. Russell wasted no time getting back to criming.

418
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 3: You know, he and Morris had to support themselves somehow,

419
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 3: so he cashed in a bunch of fraudulent life insurance

420
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 3: policies that he'd taken out on Jim Kemple. And in

421
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 3: the most audacious move, he also applied for a job

422
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 3: as the CFO of this huge medical management company called

423
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: NAMM and like, he didn't have any of the qualifications

424
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 3: for this job, like zero, So he faked a resume.

425
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 3: But like a gig like this is sure to contact references, right,

426
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 3: don't worry about that. He acted as his own references.

427
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: So he had this special talent for changing his voice.

428
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: You know that some of us have I like this

429
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 3: and his speech patterns, he could sound like different people

430
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: we could be. You know, he's adopted and so okay.

431
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 3: So there's this Houston based journalist Steve McVicker. He became

432
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 3: friends with Russell when he was He's the one who

433
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 3: wrote the book I Love You Philip Morris that the

434
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 3: film's based on. So this is what he said quote.

435
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: He has lots of different voices and he always makes

436
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: sure to give a different face in every mugshot, which

437
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 3: is incredible. And it kind of makes sense then that

438
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 3: they got Jim Carrey to play him in the movie.

439
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, so little was dead.

440
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 3: Oh rip, So the Master of a Million voices, he

441
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 3: gets hired and he got to work at his real

442
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: job though crime he he embezzled about eight hundred thousand

443
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 3: dollars that's one point four million today from NAMM. And

444
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 3: remember he didn't have any of the job experience necessary

445
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 3: for the gig, but apparently that made him a model employee.

446
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 3: So the founder of can I get this job?

447
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 5: I know?

448
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 4: Right?

449
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: The founder of NAMM later said that Russell was like

450
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: way easier to work with than any of the other

451
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 3: CFOs that he'd ever met, and that he did his

452
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 3: job really effectively. So I mean, I guess he didn't

453
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 3: have that like inflated sense of self where I don't know,

454
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: like he probably just delegated really well and didn't micromanage,

455
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 3: because what the hell is he going to manage?

456
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 7: It?

457
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: Has no idea. He used the cash that he stole

458
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 3: to live large, so like he bought Mercedes Benz cars,

459
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 3: he bought jet skis. He they only ate Hogandaws. It

460
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 3: was it was incredible good. They wore matching Rolex watches

461
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 3: him and Morris, so he went from the fake rolies

462
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 3: to the Yeah, they had a little cute matching watches.

463
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: And then he did some self care, He got veneers

464
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 3: on his teeth and he had plastic surgery on his eyes.

465
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: I feel like that's a misstep. Just don't do it anyway. Yeah,

466
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,719
Speaker 3: so a CFO, well it was its early days. Like

467
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 3: if he'd done it today, he'd be he'd look like

468
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: that new species of person that we see who has

469
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: like the fillers and the cheekbones and then they get

470
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 3: the buckle fat taken out of their cheeks and.

471
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they look like a weird fish.

472
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 3: What is that? It's interesting anyway. So you know, if

473
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 3: you're a CFO for like this major medical management company,

474
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 3: you're gonna make serious coin sure. So like, why didn't

475
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: he just get the gig and lay low and collect

476
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: the paycheck and be like yeah bies also whatever.

477
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 2: Like and get a pension.

478
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. This is what he said. Quote and

479
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 3: I feel bad that that. I love this so much.

480
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: Quote.

481
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 3: The HMOs put gem and I through hell during his illness.

482
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: They wouldn't cover the cost of certain treatments At NAMM.

483
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 3: I watched executives badger their medical directors to put pressure

484
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: on network physicians to get patients out of a hospital

485
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: as soon as possible, because otherwise it would affect their bonus.

486
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 3: That got my revenge jeans all greased up. I decided

487
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 3: to make NAMM pay for their deeds as well as

488
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 3: the other HMO's deeds towards Jimmy. So I'm like, okay,

489
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 3: I'll allow it, you know him. Yeah, what it's like

490
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 3: dealing with HMOs, It's enough to drive you to crime.

491
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 6: And those what is it like PBMs? The benefit managers

492
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 6: that are the middleman. They are the absolute titus because

493
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 6: get all the money that when they say no exactly.

494
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 3: And so I also, I love the term revenge jeans.

495
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 3: It's just so in you you can't. Yeah, I love that.

496
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 5: It's a pizza tooth. It's like I've got a pizza tooth.

497
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 3: It's yeah, I too have a pizza tooth. So Russell

498
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 3: was not on the job for very long. He got

499
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 3: found out for the embezzlement about five months after he

500
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: put it into play. And then the yeah, the cops

501
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 3: came calling, and of course, like he wants to avoid

502
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 3: jail at all costs, so he told officers that he

503
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 3: was diabetic and he asked for insulin and so like

504
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: this is at his house, so they get him the

505
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 3: insulin that's there it's Morris's juice, and he filled himself

506
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 3: with forty doses. And there's like a conflicting recollection as

507
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 3: to whether this was like a gambit to buy time

508
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: or an effort to end it all. But either way,

509
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 3: he goes into the Shope seizure.

510
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that what happens.

511
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, he goes into shock and they take him to

512
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 3: the hospital. And so a judge sets his bail at

513
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 3: nine hundred thousand dollars that's like one point five mil today,

514
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 3: And like most people granted bail, he didn't think this

515
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: was a fair amount. So instead of talking to his

516
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: lawyer or complaining to it, Cell made about it. He

517
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: actually did something. He called the district court clerk from

518
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: jail and impersonated the judge and he told yeah, he

519
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: told the clerk to reduce the bail amount to forty

520
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: five thousand dollars. Clerk's like, yeah, sure thing.

521
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

522
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 3: Russell paid his bail the following day and then walked home.

523
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 3: So that's escape number two. And like a few days later,

524
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: the courts figured out their mistake and it was only

525
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 3: because the funds that he used to pay the forty

526
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 3: five thousand dollars bail didn't clear, they went out, they

527
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 3: re arrested, and they knew where to find him. Like

528
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: he's not on the run. He was with Morris. He said, quote,

529
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 3: I did those things because I wanted to be with Philip.

530
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 3: I was out of control. So all he wants to

531
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 3: do get back to Philip. And this goes back to

532
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 3: my thing about impulse control. When I taught in the prison,

533
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 3: all my students talked about their issues with impulse control,

534
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: and it was something that they were all actively working on,

535
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: and there were good programs in the federal facility for

536
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 3: those that wanted to take advantage of them. And you

537
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: can imagine that those that were enrolled in college classes

538
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: also participated in those workshops and made an effort to

539
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: better themselves. But I think it's something we have to

540
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: recognize early and help correct in people. And it's not easy.

541
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I.

542
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 6: Think it is, like there's got to be something biochemical

543
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 6: about it, because like I can only very loosely relate

544
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 6: to it, Like I can't say I can't relate to it.

545
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 6: I've certainly done some things that were impulsive, but it's

546
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 6: not like I don't feel like I have intrusive thoughts

547
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 6: or or like I'm just gonna go do something to

548
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 6: solve a problem that's like way off the wall, and

549
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 6: I can you can tell there's people that that's just

550
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 6: what occurs to them.

551
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: Well think too, you have this whole generation generations that

552
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: had exposure to lead paint and lead in gasoline fumes,

553
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: and that has been studied to show like that it

554
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: contributes to impulse control issues. And so I know that. Yeah,

555
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 3: so I mean like that I think plays into it too,

556
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: So it's a real thing. Anyway, Russell, he gets sentenced

557
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: to prison for forty five years. And if if we

558
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: know anything about Stephen Jay Russell, it's that he always

559
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: has a plan. So in prison there's a commissary. Incarcerated

560
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: individuals can buy stuff like snacks, radios, papers, pens. Russell

561
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: bought pens, like a lot of them, lots and lots

562
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 3: of them, lots of green felt tipped markers.

563
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 6: Now I can relate to this because when I was little,

564
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 6: I just love green twos. So I actually wrote green

565
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 6: twos all over my parents' garage.

566
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: Oh my love that.

567
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 6: And thankfully, you know, I don't think they did anything

568
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 6: horrible to me for it. And I also stole all

569
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 6: of the playing cards from my sister's card decks that

570
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 6: were twos and wrote green two on them.

571
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 3: Oh that's cool.

572
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 5: They couldn't find.

573
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 6: Them, So yeah, I love green felt tip markers. I'm

574
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 6: with you, Stephen.

575
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: He's right there, and it's like, but he what's he

576
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: doing with him? He wasn't giving out like pre aged

577
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 3: temporary tattoos. He was a massing die. So one day

578
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: he emptied all the ink into the sink in his

579
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: cell and he dyed his white prison uniform green. That right,

580
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 3: that was the I would do it just for aesthetics,

581
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 3: because I green's my favorite color.

582
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 5: Are you a spring? Is that it?

583
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: Are you a late spring?

584
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: I'm a late spring, not much of a new autumn.

585
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: So this is the color. The green was the color

586
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 3: that visiting doctors wore. So here's a pro tip from

587
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 3: Russell quote, you have to be very careful because if

588
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 3: you wring them out, you get streaks in the material,

589
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: like this is the aft knowledge. So a few days

590
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 3: after dyeing his uniform, like I guess he gave it

591
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: enough time to dry, he made his move. He waited

592
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 3: until the guard at the door was on the phone,

593
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 3: and then he walked up and he puts it on.

594
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 3: He puts the outfit on, the green outfit. He walks

595
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: up and he asked to be waved through like a

596
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: doctor would, and he gets this hole. Remember he could

597
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: like study mannerisms and he gets this thing. Come on,

598
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: I gotta get out of here. This is what he said.

599
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: Russell said quote, if you're scared, you really mustn't show it.

600
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: You have to act like you're meant to be there.

601
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: But you do get a huge adrenaline rush. I walked

602
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: to the woods just outside the penitentiary, and after about

603
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 3: one hundred yards, I turned round and I went like this,

604
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: flipping the bird. I guess it was kind of arrogant.

605
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: So he did that, you know, yeah, totally, and he

606
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: planned the hell out of it. He figured that they

607
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: would send dogs after him, so he taped a bunch

608
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 3: of plastic bags, like really tight against his body so

609
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 3: that his scent would be blocked and the dogs would

610
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: track him.

611
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 6: I thought, you're going to say, he taped a bunch

612
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 6: of steaks to me.

613
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 3: It's the exact office. He's like, damn it, I just

614
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 3: wanted to pet the dogs. So he's like, he's still

615
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 3: dressed up as a doctor. I don't know if he

616
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: also got like a stethoscope somewhere. Probably let's say he did,

617
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: who knows, And so he's all dressed up like that.

618
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: He goes to the nearest house. He knocks on the

619
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 3: door and like, you figure, you live a woods away

620
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: from a prison, you're probably got you know, your like

621
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 3: censors up all the time. Yeah. No, he convinced the

622
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: homeowner that he was a doctor who needed a ride

623
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: into town. Like, you know, see, I'd gotten into a

624
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 3: little accident with macar Can you help an mb is.

625
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: It's just like a horror movie at this point.

626
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 3: Totally so he said. Quote by the time they had

627
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: their helicopters and search teams out, I was drinking Margarita's

628
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 3: in a bar in Houston. This guy's good escape number three.

629
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: So he immediately goes to meet up with Morris. The

630
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 3: two of them they head for Mississippi to start a

631
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: new life, but they were eventually found, you know, arm

632
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 3: of the law and all. His story though, is huge

633
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 3: in the media. I mean, like, how could it not be.

634
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: He's multiple brazen escapes and this made the authorities look really,

635
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: really bad. And you know what happens when you poke

636
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 3: that bear. They threw the book at him. So normally,

637
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: like he would have kind of laughed at the whole thing,

638
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: like even as he was being sentenced, but this time

639
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: was different. He was sad and defeated and the court

640
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 3: and in court they asked him like, what's up. You know,

641
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 3: you're normally you find this all hilarious, and he's like, well,

642
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: I just found out I'm HIV positive and I don't

643
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 3: have long to live. And everyone's like, oh my god.

644
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: So they take him into lock up for ten months.

645
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 3: While he's in there, his condition just deteriorated, like he

646
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: lost a ton of weight. He's like feeble and exhausted.

647
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: And then they thought, well, okay, we have to send

648
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: him to the prison nursing home for hospice care. So

649
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: they send him to the home and then the prison

650
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: officials they get a call from a doctor who said

651
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 3: that Russell had been selected for an experimental drug trial.

652
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: And this is the era when you're getting like all

653
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: of these you know, new leaps and bounds, and so

654
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 3: they needed to send him to the treatment center immediately

655
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: to begin the new drug trial. And so they show

656
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: this incredible compassion. They release him into the care of

657
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 3: the doctor and a few weeks later they find out

658
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 3: though that the experiment had failed and Russell had passed away.

659
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: The thing is, Russell never had HIV. Made the whole

660
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 3: thing up dog He he watched Jim die, so he

661
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 3: knew what the process looked like. And he's this great mimic.

662
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 3: So he ate basically nothing, and he took a bunch

663
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 3: of laxatives. And they never administered an HIV test because

664
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 3: he had one on file, but it was one that

665
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 3: he'd fake the results of, Like he literally just typed

666
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 3: one up like Stephen Russell's got HIV, like look see

667
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 3: you know.

668
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 5: And he induced lethargy and like wasting.

669
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: Completely completely, And so now they think he's dead because

670
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 3: they get word from this supposed doctor who doesn't exist.

671
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: He's like, well, rip, he pulled off escape number four.

672
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: Wow, this guy is good.

673
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 3: This is what he said. Quote. That was the most difficult.

674
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: I had to completely discipline myself. You do whatever you

675
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 3: have to do. I get my ideas from studying. I watch,

676
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 3: I look for weaknesses, you look the whole way around something,

677
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 3: and you never let yourself get blocked in. I don't

678
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: think I'm cleverer than the police. But I managed it

679
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 3: because they think anyone who is a criminal is stupid

680
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 3: and they're complacent. I think anyone can escape from anywhere.

681
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 2: That's probably right. I mean, it's you know true.

682
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: And because anytime we have these criminals who have their

683
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: wits about them and are pretty smart about it, the

684
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 3: cops are always remarking, like, God, this guy's good. I

685
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: respect him, so they're not anticipating it and like it's

686
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: this clever. But man, that's bad juju what he did, Like,

687
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 3: don't I don't know, yeah, don't do that.

688
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 6: On the other hand, like his his like part of

689
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 6: the population who was at the time like being almost

690
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 6: deliberately diminished. So if anybody can do it like wear

691
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 6: it does a badge to get out, like he could

692
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 6: do it, and I you.

693
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 3: Know, it's another one of his kind of middle finger

694
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: to the world like yeah, yeah. So he's out on

695
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: the lamb. On March twentieth, nineteen ninety eight, he poses

696
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 3: as this like rich guy goes into Nations Bank in

697
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 3: Dallas and tries to get a seventy five thousand dollars loan,

698
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: and the bank staff they're a little suspicious. They call

699
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: the authorities. Cops show up and Russell's like, oh my god,

700
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 3: they found me. So he fakes a heart attack. They

701
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: take him to the hospital and it was there that

702
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 3: authorities find out that the guy that they had there

703
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: wasn't some rich man trying to score alone. He was

704
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 3: the dearly departed Stephen Russell.

705
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 6: And he's using they're dead, he's using a whole fake profile,

706
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 6: this whole whole fake profile.

707
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. But they print him and they're like, oh, not really,

708
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: So they arrest him, and he tried to convince the

709
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: cops that it was all a mistake, like, I'm not

710
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: Stephen J. Russell, You've got to be confused. But the

711
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: police had when they send the prince out, they find

712
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 3: out who he is. Texas Department of Criminal Justice tells

713
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: the cops there ignore everything he says to you, no

714
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: matter how believable it seems. Yeah, right, Glenn Castlebury of

715
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 3: the Texas Department of Criminal Justice said, quote, we told

716
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: them in Florida, if he comes out of the apartment

717
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: and says he's Bill Clinton, don't believe him, even though

718
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 3: you may want to. But I'm like, I'm not sure

719
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 3: why they would believe him, But I'm going to start

720
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 3: telling people I'm Bill Clinton and sticks.

721
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 5: And you're a Hollywood producer, Holly producer.

722
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 3: Bill Clinton com a Hollywood producer. So Russell he gets

723
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 3: placed under heavy security watch didn't matter. He impersonated an

724
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: FBI agent, called the hospital on his cell phone and

725
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 3: told them that he could be released. Does escape number five.

726
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: So a couple of weeks later, US Marshalls they track

727
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 3: him to Florida arrested him.

728
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 2: Imagine how mad Johnny Law is at the point, like.

729
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 3: Oh, they're just living and they want to catch them

730
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 3: no matter what. They They tricked him into going to

731
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 3: pick up a fax which you know r I P faxes,

732
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 3: and that's where.

733
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 5: They want.

734
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 3: That fact every time. So let's stop here for the

735
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 3: long arm of the law, and when we return from

736
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 3: our advertising sojourn, I'm going to let you know what

737
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 3: lies in store for old Stephen Russell.

738
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 5: I'm pulling for the.

739
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 4: Guy, Dave.

740
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 3: Oh here we are talking Stephen J. Russell.

741
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 5: We sure are.

742
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: This is a this is an interesting change.

743
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: He's a complex guy. Five escapes, some clever, well pretty

744
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: much all of them pretty clever, some pretty down low though.

745
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: He gets busted again, and now everyone's taking every precaution

746
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 3: to make sure he stays in custody.

747
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm assuming that's mostly just like closing his mouth.

748
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 3: It's pretty much like tape him to.

749
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: The pens away.

750
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 3: So at trial, the judge sentenced him to one hundred

751
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: and forty four years in prison. That's forty five years

752
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 3: for all of his various scams, ninety nine years for

753
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 3: his multiple prison escapes. And they didn't put him into

754
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 3: gen POP. He was sentenced to be held in solitary confinement.

755
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 5: Oh so that far it hurts here.

756
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that meant that he was kept in a small

757
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 3: room for twenty two to twenty three hours a day.

758
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 3: Even with this treatment, prison officials were still convinced that

759
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 3: he was plotting to escape again. They interviewed one guard

760
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: and he said, quote, if I know Steven, he's in

761
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: touch with Philip Morris right now. I'm absolutely positive that

762
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 3: his little brain is constantly turning.

763
00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 5: Is that? Like?

764
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: Is that constitutional? Like I feel like we're.

765
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: Going yeah, but it's just not true though at this

766
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: point he's not in touch with Philip Morris. He doesn't

767
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 3: want to escape again like he always did it for love, right,

768
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 3: first for Jim, then for Philip Morris. But now Philip

769
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 3: Morris doesn't want anything to do with him, so he

770
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 3: has nothing to run to. This is what Russell said

771
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 3: about Morris never visiting him. Quote, I miss him, but

772
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 3: I'm also realistic. I don't want to ever do anything

773
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: that would hurt him again, and any action I took

774
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: now would cause him problems. I can't be with him.

775
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: There's no way they would let that happen. It doesn't

776
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 3: make any difference how I feel about it. But you

777
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 3: can't feel sorry for yourself. I did this to myself.

778
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: When I hear from him, it's through letters. He's on

779
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 3: my visitation list. So far, he hasn't come to see me,

780
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 3: so it's like he's owning up to it. And I

781
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 3: thought it was really interesting that he realizes that if

782
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: he does this, it's going to hurt Philip more than

783
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: anything else. So while he felt like he didn't have

784
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 3: anyone to run to, he did feel like he had

785
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: someone to stay on track for, and that was his daughter, Stephanie. Okay,

786
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 3: so he said, quote, my daughter Stephanie travels from the

787
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,959
Speaker 3: East Coast several times a year so she can spend

788
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: time with her dad. She deserves all of the credit

789
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 3: for my change. In behavior. It's because of her that

790
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 3: I stopped trying to escape. The power a daughter has

791
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 3: over her father is strong. She helped me see that

792
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 3: my actions weren't just hurting me, they were hurting her

793
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 3: as well. All of my escapes had been acts of

794
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 3: unthinking selfishness. In order for me to stop hurting the

795
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 3: ones I love, they had to stop.

796
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 5: He's got a surprising level of awareness on several levels.

797
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And you see, like just like his

798
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 3: I hate to say his journey, but like his journey

799
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 3: through life is really fascinating of how he responds and

800
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 3: adapts and develops. And he had did his twenty eighteen interview,

801
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: he was asked what he would do to stop prisoners

802
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 3: from escaping, and his response was quote, first off, I

803
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: would keep the front door locked. If they need further advice,

804
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 3: they can hire me as a consultant after I'm paroled again.

805
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: Love jus so he Morris. Philip Morris got interviewed in

806
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: twenty ten by the Houston Chronicle and he shared some

807
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: interesting insights into the mind of Steve and j Russell.

808
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: He told the paper, quote, you know, when we were

809
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: in Harris County Jail, my lawyer told me they were

810
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 3: going to reinstate my probation, that I was going to

811
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 3: be out of there. Well. Instead, when I came back

812
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 3: to my cell, Steve was there, all happy and smiling.

813
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 3: Sometimes he'd have three or four phones going at the

814
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 3: same time. Before I even opened my mouth, he said,

815
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 3: they gave you a three year sentence, didn't they? I said, Steve,

816
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 3: how'd you know that? Of course, what he had done

817
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 3: was he had called the judge pretending to be another

818
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: judge or the DA so I would not be getting

819
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 3: out that night. He wanted to make sure that I

820
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 3: would go to prison. We spent all this time together

821
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 3: in Harris County Jail. He did that to make sure

822
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 3: I wouldn't go back to my ex lover. He wanted

823
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 3: to make sure he got out before I got out.

824
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 5: That is wild.

825
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so manipulative. So you're like, like every time you

826
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 3: think like I kind of pull for him that he

827
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 3: does these nasty things. Yeah, so he get This interview

828
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 3: was just after the film I Love You Philip Morris

829
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 3: was released. They asked him how They asked Philip Morris,

830
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 3: how do you feel about seeing your story on the screen?

831
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,479
Speaker 3: He said, quote, I'm delighted about it, just the fact

832
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 3: that people will see me as one of Steve's victims

833
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 3: as well. I've watched it with really close friends of

834
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 3: mine and family members who don't know the extent of

835
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: what that man put me through. After the movie, one

836
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 3: of my best fishing buddies who happens to be straight,

837
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 3: he actually held me and cried and told me, Philip,

838
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 3: I did not know this about you. So this is

839
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 3: also you know, every time we tell these stories, we

840
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: talk about how ridiculous these things are, and obviously there

841
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 3: are always victims, and sometimes, you know, we don't care

842
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 3: when it's like a big multinational corporation, you know, because

843
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: up there, up theres but like you know, you do,

844
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: you do have to always take into account that there's

845
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 3: you know, there are ramifications for these things. So yeah,

846
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 3: we got Russell locked up and alone and insolitary, and

847
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: he has a lot to say about that quote. Extreme

848
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: isolation has given me time to consider who I am

849
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 3: and how I got here. It's a daily battle, though,

850
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 3: full of regret, flashbacks, self doubt, paranoia, bored him self loathing, questioning,

851
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 3: and futility care the dage right. There are days when

852
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 3: I break down and cry my daily life, if you

853
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: can call it, that is barely worth living all by myself,

854
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 3: not touching another individual, not being able to hug my daughter,

855
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: And it's my fault. It's only the future that gives

856
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: me hope. I'm now almost sixty one years old. Do

857
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 3: I belong in prison? Yes? I do. I understand and

858
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 3: accept why I'm here. I most definitely do not belong

859
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: in solitary However, that is a cruel and unusual punishment,

860
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: completely disproportionate to my crimes. So let's talk about solitary confinement.

861
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 3: So you know, I said, like, they're in there twenty

862
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,439
Speaker 3: two to twenty three hours a day. It's a windowless

863
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: concrete cell. They're fed through slots in the door. They

864
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 3: can't participate in job training or like other prison programs

865
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 3: that would help them better themselves. They can't earn time

866
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 3: served credits for parole eligibility.

867
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 5: They can very exercise, right, I mean there's no that's.

868
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 3: Not one hour. That one hour is to go out

869
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 3: and like move and but yeah, otherwise you can't really

870
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: do anything. The United Nations Chief Official on issues involving

871
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 3: torture said that solitary confinement for more than fifteen days

872
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: constitutes torture has.

873
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 6: To and like a week is like most people could

874
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 6: not survive for a week, there would.

875
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: None and this guy he gets a full sentence of it. Yeah,

876
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: and it's an issue that a lot of states are

877
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: working to regulate. In California, there's a big fight over

878
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 3: whether to limit the amount of time someone can be

879
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 3: put in solitary. And they tried to put these regulations

880
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: on and then it gets it, you know, it always

881
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 3: to fall apart. And there are arguments too about like

882
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 3: how long should a pregnant woman be in solitary? You

883
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: don't even think of those things.

884
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, well it always like there's always people who like

885
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 6: when you're in the prison environment, like stuff happens to you,

886
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 6: you need medical care and unless unless like in most cases,

887
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 6: they just deny it, like if you're in if you're

888
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 6: in solitary, like you're.

889
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 5: Not going to get your medical care no matter what

890
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 5: I need.

891
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 3: And what's interesting too, like when I when I taught

892
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: in the Federal prison, I had a lot of students

893
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 3: who would go into solitary on purpose because to avoid

894
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: like a fight or to be you know, oh yeah

895
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: injured really or something bad happening to them. And it's

896
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 3: usually like something over like a commissary debt or a

897
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 3: gambling thing, and then they'd you know, or they would

898
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 3: get thrown in for fighting or that kind of stuff.

899
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 3: But it's like to have to go in there as

900
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: your safe haven is even more terrifying, I think Russell

901
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 3: he thinks, you know, obviously that solitary is overkill. He said,

902
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 3: quote it's also unnecessary. Setting aside my decision to give

903
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: up trying to escape. Escaping is now a physical impossibility

904
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 3: for me. My spine is now so impacted that I

905
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: have to be pushed around in a wheelchair whenever I

906
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: leave myself. Escaping also makes no sense now that I

907
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 3: have served so much time, because all of my crimes

908
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 3: were nonviolent, I may make it out of here legitimately

909
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 3: one day on parole. That is an infinitely better option

910
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: for me than trying to escape again. So like he

911
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 3: can't escape, that was the whole point of the solitary.

912
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 3: M I'm with him. It's overkill anyway. So research has

913
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 3: shown that keeping people from that meaningful human contact can

914
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 3: cause what's called isolation syndrome. And you know a lot

915
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 3: of people talked about this with like COVID lockdowns that

916
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 3: if you know, we're trying to save each other and

917
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 3: save our lives and protect people, but at the same time,

918
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 3: you know, if you're especially if you're all by yourself,

919
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: like they can drive you mad absolutely, and it manifests

920
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: itself with like anxiety, depression, anger, perceptual distortions and paranoia

921
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 3: psychosis there and we talked about it on Tuesday. There's

922
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 3: this other iHeart podcast called Politiken with My Dream Team

923
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 3: of Gavin Marshawn and then Doug so Good. So sorry Doug,

924
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 3: but it is Oh yeah. So they did this recent

925
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: two parter from San Quentin and knew some talked a

926
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 3: lot about the California model for incarceration, which focuses on

927
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 3: reducing recidivism and encouraging rehabilitation. And what struck me was

928
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: that he and the warden talked a lot about how

929
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 3: most of the guys inside would soon be outside and

930
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: they would be our neighbors. So like, what kind of

931
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 3: neighbor do you want to have? What kind of services

932
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 3: can these guys get to get them to a place

933
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 3: where they will be good neighbors in the community.

934
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 6: That's also like a it's like a Buddhist way to

935
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 6: look at it too. It's like you're you're stuck on

936
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 6: this planet with all these other people like you don't

937
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 6: have any other options, so how can you all live

938
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 6: together in a way.

939
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 3: That's exactly And when you think about it, they're paying

940
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 3: their debt to society and then you're supposed to have

941
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: this clean slate when you get out, which you don't.

942
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 3: But like how solitary is not the way to get

943
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 3: people to being a productive member of society. And I

944
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 3: would hope that everyone who complains about all the sacrifices

945
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: that we had to make when we were all locked

946
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 3: in for COVID stuff with think about that, you know.

947
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 3: But this is more of what Stephen Russell had to

948
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 3: say about solitary quote. In my opinion, solitary confinement should

949
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: only be reserved for the most violent of inmates and

950
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 3: should never be used for more than two years at

951
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 3: a time. It destroys the human spirit. Put simply, it

952
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 3: makes men mad. It is the only legal form of

953
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 3: torture in today's prison system. But it's a slow maltreatment

954
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 3: of the body and mind that in the short run

955
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 3: at least leaves no visible signs. That's why it's permitted.

956
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 3: Plus society tends to view anything that happens to inmates

957
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 3: in prison as no more than they deserve. Prisoners, however,

958
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 3: aren't necessarily evil or beyond redemption. If we expect prison

959
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 3: to rehabilitate offenders, or if we expect inmates to reintegrate

960
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 3: into society once they've done their time, the less broken

961
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 3: they are when they finally come out, the easier that

962
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 3: will be. That's exactly what we're talking about, you know.

963
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 3: And I think it's interesting that he's like, there are

964
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 3: all these examples in his life of when like society

965
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,919
Speaker 3: pushes him down and his response and we're like, yeah,

966
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 3: it kind of makes sense where he just like gives

967
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 3: the world the middle finger and does and breaks the

968
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 3: social contract. And it's like, if you're constantly you know,

969
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 3: of course you're going to come out of solitary wanting

970
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 3: to break the social contract because it broke for you.

971
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're also just broken.

972
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 6: I mean, like it creates real scars that you know

973
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 6: that it's really hard to heal.

974
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. So his maximum sentence would put him behind bars

975
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: until March thirteenth, twenty one, thirteen, and he In twenty eighteen,

976
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 3: he released a memoir called Life after Philip Morris. He

977
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: wrote it kind of like a play, and he became

978
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: eligible for parole on December fifteenth, twenty twenty and on

979
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 3: February seventh, twenty twenty three, he got paroled. He was

980
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 3: released on July eleventh, twenty twenty four. Not too long while. Yeah,

981
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 3: so he's done some public speaking engagement since then. It's

982
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 3: not easy to kind of track down. But then there

983
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 3: was that movie right, I Love You Philip Morris. Jim

984
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 3: Carrey played Russell, Ewan McGregor played Philip Morris, and the

985
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 3: screenwriters for it, who adapted the screenplay, they originally pitched

986
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 3: the story to a studio that was affiliated with the

987
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 3: book publisher, and one of the writers was like, yeah,

988
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 3: it didn't go so well because there the studio wanted

989
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 3: them to make Philip into a girl, like they were

990
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 3: not wait, yeah, they were not comfortable with it being

991
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 3: a gay couple. So in the.

992
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: Writers three or whatever, like was this reach.

993
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 3: Well no, this was two thousand and nine, was the

994
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: was the movie?

995
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 5: Okay?

996
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 2: But still yeah, I mean like yeah.

997
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 3: So like the screenwriters they wanted to make this classic

998
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 3: romantic comedy.

999
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 5: But with me cut and like yeah, but it.

1000
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 3: Was like two gay men in the roles that they

1001
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 3: They said that would typically go to Doris Day and

1002
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 3: Rock Hudson, which is like, well Rock Hudson, Yeah, but

1003
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 3: like in the fifties, like a fifties kind of zany.

1004
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 3: One of the screenwriters, John Request said quote to say

1005
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 3: that the subject matter, the gay subject matter, played no

1006
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 3: part in our distribution problems would be a lie. I

1007
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 3: mean it did. We went with a distributor who was

1008
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 3: not one of the major independent distributors at Sundance because

1009
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 3: I believe that the larger distributors were afraid of it

1010
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 3: because it wasn't a gay message movie and it was

1011
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 3: a frank depiction of gay life. So it wasn't like,

1012
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 3: you know.

1013
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:50,439
Speaker 2: Still nuts.

1014
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 6: I mean, like, I believe it one hundred percent, but yeah,

1015
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 6: it's nuts to reflect on the fact that it was.

1016
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 6: It's been that long till you could just have a

1017
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 6: story that didn't revolve around the homosexuality of it, but

1018
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 6: have two gay men as leads.

1019
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and not be like, oh, we're fighting for

1020
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 3: the you know, like yeah, and so Russell though he uh,

1021
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 3: he's only seen clips from the movie, he's never seen

1022
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 3: the whole thing. He said, quote they've got it down.

1023
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: The way we speak, the mannerisms, the close everything, it's surreal.

1024
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 3: And then Jim Carrey, when asked about it, said, quote,

1025
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 3: the bottom line was that he wanted to be loved

1026
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 3: and he felt disenfranchised his entire life. So like that

1027
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 3: was what he took out of it, and that's what

1028
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,240
Speaker 3: he put into that role. So, Dave, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

1029
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 6: Oh my god, Well, something just popped into my head

1030
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 6: as you said that last bit, which is that, like,

1031
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 6: is this a truth about people who ultimately become con artists.

1032
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,240
Speaker 5: Like they want to be loved?

1033
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, like deep down, and that's like they so they

1034
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 6: managed to like extract goods or emotions out of somebody.

1035
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 5: But it's obviously artificial because there's a setup.

1036
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 6: But what they're really doing is kind of like pantomiming

1037
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 6: the interaction they really want, Like they would love for

1038
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 6: somebody to be like, I love you so much, I'm

1039
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 6: going to give you eighty thousand dollars.

1040
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, to force that love, whether they know about it

1041
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 3: or not, I mean love.

1042
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 6: This may be way too abstracted from real life to

1043
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 6: be true, but it's it's neat and tidy, like it's

1044
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 6: an interesting way to look at it exactly exactly.

1045
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 3: Uh you know, no, I think I already covered it all.

1046
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 3: I really really think we should do a talk back here.

1047
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 5: I got one for you. Oh my god, I love you.

1048
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 3: Hey, Saren and Elizabeth.

1049
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 7: This is rude dudes, Alison and Lily here what she's

1050
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 7: a shy fourteen year old anyway, we just were driving

1051
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 7: home from plane in the Ciahoga River and we happen

1052
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 7: to be listening to your ten cent Beer Night South

1053
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 7: of Cleveland. It's nice and clean and fun. We love, love,

1054
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 7: love your show.

1055
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.

1056
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 3: I love that, Lily. I have been in that position

1057
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 3: so many times when people are like, say hi, no, no,

1058
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 3: I would say it if I wanted to. But I

1059
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,479
Speaker 3: love this in the Cuyahoga River. See how it's been

1060
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 3: cleaned up. God, bless God, blessed Cleveland. That's it for today.

1061
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 3: You can find us online at ridiculous Crime dot com.

1062
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 3: We're at Ridiculous Crime on Twitter, Instagram, Flicker, Friends to Jazzo, Jazzo,

1063
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 3: Bing Bong, Mad Magazine, all the good ones. You can

1064
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 3: email Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, but it's pointless,

1065
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: and then you can also do something that's not pointless.

1066
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 3: Leave us a talk back on the iHeart App. It's

1067
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 3: free and you can be on the show reach Out.

1068
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton, Zern Burnett and

1069
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 3: this time Dave Coustin. That's Me for It is edited

1070
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 3: by Jim Carrey as Dave Cousten, starring and Elis Rutger

1071
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 3: as Judas. Research is by Marissa Brown as Jim Carrey

1072
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 3: and Jim Carrey as Andrea Song Sharpen Tear. The theme

1073
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,280
Speaker 3: song is by Jim Carrey as Thomas Lee and Travis

1074
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 3: Dutton featuring Jim Carrey. Post wardrobe is provided by Botany

1075
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 3: five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre.

1076
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Ben Bolan Is portrayed by Ewan McGregor

1077
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 3: and Ewan McGregor as Noel Brown QUI Say It One

1078
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 3: More Time.

1079
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

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00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: in my Heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.